Open 834: Trust Fall - Game Over

[Infinity 324]

pooky town

[Infinity 324]

pooky town

umbreon...how can it get more town than this

[Infinity 324]

you find whose posts are most similar to mine

[Infinity 324]

yes it's a good idea for a townbloc to be as uniform as possible to increase the probability of mindmeld

[Infinity 324]

If I trust scum will they just quicktrust me and exit

the advantage to not doing so is that they could be treated as confirmed town and pair with someone townier. but given that people are aware of this, i'm not sure how much of an advantage that is.

[Infinity 324]

Hi Wisdom!

Are you guys joking?

yes

[Infinity 324]

Okay, so trust thingy cannot be used as a thing to stir up content or pressure

Do you guys wanna use pseudovotes or something

sure, for me people giving reads is enough to generate my own and i don't really need a vote or votesque things

site meta might have changed in this regard?

[Infinity 324]

Vote counts as Trust here as i remember.

I think I just accidentally cleared wisdom while goofing around go me

yeah wisdom probably town

[Infinity 324]

'the worst' initial scumping for claiming to not know the rules on page 3, when they had been referenced a couple times already by that point - potentially tricking someone into an early OMGUS trust thing. and also repeated claims Enchant is town, with no reason given.

a couple mildest of mild townpings. Liked Pookythemagicalbears opening appeal, felt genuine and performative where scum might worry about seeming needy. nothing else for now but I'm watching you.

i also hadn't read that rule by that point and didn't see where it was referenced?

[Infinity 324]

tammy's thought line of "i wouldn't be good here if scum" and "i'd already be impressed with myself if scum here" seems genuine so she's lean town i think

i don't think scum!tammy would think she did anything good yet

[Infinity 324]

'the worst' initial scumping for claiming to not know the rules on page 3, when they had been referenced a couple times already by that point - potentially tricking someone into an early OMGUS trust thing. and also repeated claims Enchant is town, with no reason given.

a couple mildest of mild townpings. Liked Pookythemagicalbears opening appeal, felt genuine and performative where scum might worry about seeming needy. nothing else for now but I'm watching you.

i also hadn't read that rule by that point and didn't see where it was referenced?

@cookie

[Infinity 324]

I've been bit in the ass too many times for writing people off as town off things like that, and I'm not going to do that this game

ok but not even a townlean?

[Infinity 324]

Nope. I pretty much have a healthy dose of suspicion of everyone here right now.

imo you're being too paranoid. just because you've falsely cleared people for similar reasons in the past doesn't make them invalid.

[Infinity 324]

i don't have too many thoughts yet. prism feels somewhat towny, the early townread on pooky was kinda serious, mafman pings me a little but i don't have anything concrete.

[Infinity 324]

Nope. I pretty much have a healthy dose of suspicion of everyone here right now.

imo you're being too paranoid. just because you've falsely cleared people for similar reasons in the past doesn't make them invalid.

Infy if you're going to post irrelevant gibberish you must do so with sufficient quantity and humor such that people don't notice you are mostly posting irrelevant gibberish.

oops i forgot, wisdom's alignment doesn't matter

[Infinity 324]

The difference between this game and every other one you have played with me is vast, Infinity. Does this sound no alarm bells?

it doesn't seem that different to me tbh? it looks like you're trying to sort tammy, and not trying to take control of the gamestate, which is pretty towny

[Infinity 324]

i don't have too many thoughts yet. prism feels somewhat towny, the early townread on pooky was kinda serious, mafman pings me a little but i don't have anything concrete.

just pings? or do we have something to go back and forth on

just pings, mostly you're sorting but not particularly townily

[Infinity 324]

whats everyones read on cookie?
i feel even with those 3 posts fae have made some of the most ai posts yet

felt like the worst sus was pretty bad so i asked faer about it, besides that nothing why

[Infinity 324]

The difference between this game and every other one you have played with me is vast, Infinity. Does this sound no alarm bells?

it doesn't seem that different to me tbh? it looks like you're trying to sort tammy, and not trying to take control of the gamestate, which is pretty towny

Can you be more specific what "take control of the gamestate" means? I ask because I have never seen this phrase used in a way that convinces me it is more than snake oil.

I sort players every game. I use it as pretense to manipulate them every game. Where is the difference? I had "control" over most of the "gamestate" our first run of this and used it to shut out catboi and amplify HEM. I was town. While it took me awhile to get it in grasp, I was firm and a dominant voice all of Forest Fire, and leveraged it into an unpopular scumflip and a controversial second.

normally i'd expect town to care about what they care about and good scum players to take a broader view of the game, interact with a lot of players, since that's how players tend to get influence in mafia games ime

there's a difference between getting influence and trying to get influence.

i'm not confident that this is correct so the read is weak.

[Infinity 324]

i don't see what's genuine about it and it just seems wrong, like scum wouldn't try to trick people about the rules they're in the op

could be wrong scum or wrong town

[Infinity 324]

mafmen keeps pinging me

[Infinity 324]

No, I think that's entirely fair. Could be a newbie awkwardness, could just be writing style in general, could be not having much to comment on, but I don't see the towniness off the bat that you guys see.

I think when people use a reason to townread someone that's so convoluted/weird/notgreat that it's unlikely to be "faked" then it's probably just true.

scum tend to want their reasoning to be like "good"

ok but that doesn't really apply here, i agree with tammy that it's a pretty basic thing to say. it's null on its own i think

@mafmen i'll let you know if there's a reason for the read but nothing yet

[Infinity 324]

mmmmmm

what was this

[Infinity 324]

ducky's charisma is too infectious, i have no choice but to townread him

[Infinity 324]

How do you match that with her answer to my question about what she'd be doing differently here if she were scum?

honestly it doesn't really match, but it's still towny to me

like town would be biased towards "i'm town so i'm towny so i'd be doing a good job if i was scum" regardless of the specifics of what she was doing that might make her towny

[Infinity 324]

mmmmmm

what was this

It felt like an indirect rebuttal to me calling ducky obvtown in 147

hmm yeah that might be a good way of describing why that post pinged me

[Infinity 324]

Vote counts as Trust here as i remember.

I think I just accidentally cleared wisdom while goofing around go me

yeah wisdom probably town

Like this is a more likely scum reaction to tw's thing than Tammy's
Town should be questioning it and making sure I am not considered conftown for ever because they should be scared of my scum game

this is silly, town should be putting you as more likely town as a result because you are more likely town as a result

[Infinity 324]

jesus you keep putting me in a spot that forces me to whiteknight klick

towny tbh

[Infinity 324]

Town should do exactly what Tammy did, mention all possibilities
Just townreading me like you did is what scum who think everyone is townreading me anyway does

i think it's pretty clear that there were multiple possibilities and that yo used not confirmed town, i think it's also pretty clear that you being town is significantly more likely here

the only way to get a nullread on you from that is if you think there's a 0% chance that scum!you accepts

[Infinity 324]

pooky's klick push feels very genuine, but it's not scummy to say a thought because you have it

klick is null/PoE for me

[Infinity 324]

the way i read you has a lot to do with gut prism, and your questioning of tammy felt good to me, sometimes you playing more aggressively does

[Infinity 324]

how are you pooky

i feel like no one is around when i am

pedit: lol

[Infinity 324]

I am much better now that Tammy is back!

How are you ? :3

pretty good. i'm mostly being lazy since i'm done with classes for the day. drafting some bad rw decks cause i felt like drafting rw

[Infinity 324]

uw imo is ridiculously strong

disturb is busted

yeah, uw is my most drafted deck by far, but i got bored of it. and the gameplay is very tiring. good deck though.

[Infinity 324]

mafmen kinda but i'm doubting it

[Infinity 324]

what are your thoughts on enchant

i used to think he was easy to read but I've seen him replicate his town meta as scum

[Infinity 324]

Also, sorry Infinity-I did not notice you shifted your pronoun to they. I will do my best to revise it moving forward.

thanks

what was the game where my gut was terribly wrong again? you linked forest fire

[Infinity 324]

Infinity you've played quite a few games with scum!me

what made you decide you could confidently townread me on page 2?

is my scum game that one dimensional to you ? :<

didn't confidently townread you on page 2 lol

[Infinity 324]

i liked your reaction to enchant

it was a page 2 read though. of course it wasn't confident

i exaggerate early townreads for content in most games

[Infinity 324]

Yup that would work really well if I was scum and just missed the vote

It would also work really well if the worst was scum and did that to try to get you confirmed.

I don't believe this, but people not accounting for various possibilities is weird.

sigh

this makes no sense to me

you can account for various possibilities, but not making any judgment on which are the most likely makes zero sense to me

and if you do make a judgement, I think it's pretty clear that the most likely scenario is that wisdom is just town here

[Infinity 324]

I am thinking about two candidates which i plan to trust soon. Before that, i wish ask everyone. Who you would suggest for town deserved trust? Don't tell "No one" or something like that, just one or two names with explaination why they are considered townie for you. After that i reveal planned candidates (i think that's blatant choice from my perspective so you can as well quess) and maybe think about my life choices.

Can you do it like in Fallout 4

I'm replaying Fallout 4 in VR right now and it's really fun and kinda creepy.

Yeah, i would be scared of sarcasm too.

pooky and wisdom, but i'm not confident yet

[Infinity 324]

I don't really understand why you want me to townread wisdom so bad. The game is super early, proper town reads matter, and I tend to be cautious in that regard anyway.

yeah, maybe we should just drop this. i guess i got frustrated because i didn't like your logic and it felt like you were expecting everyone else to use the same (imo bad) logic. if you're confident you can correctly tr wisdom later, that makes me feel better, and you don't have to tr wisdom for the same reasons i do.

[Infinity 324]

when I say weak i don't mean like overall weak

just weaker in the sense that I feel their scum games are not as strong as their town games and there is readable disparity

I don't actually know if this applies to cookie

catch me as scum and you can put me in this category

[Infinity 324]

wait didnt i catch you in the last trust fall game infinity

honestly i didn't know how much of your scumread was a joke but sure

do you have a read on cookie?

[Infinity 324]

wait didnt i catch you in the last trust fall game infinity

honestly i didn't know how much of your scumread was a joke but sure

do you have a read on cookie?

probtown

hmm why

[Infinity 324]

also wisdom confirmed he didn't notice the trust so he's owned that the clear was phoney

oh i missed this lol

townread on wisdom slightly weaker i guess

[Infinity 324]

cookie's posting reminds me of like. imagine you're on a date and the other person was in the middle of a story which they were really vibing and you're like, kinda fine with it, but it's not riveting and also you really really need to use the bathroom.

that. that's what faer posts remind me of.

please don't be scum :)

PEdit: i don't have much of a read on his posting and it gives me slight townvibes

I still think there's a decent chance scum would just accept the fake clear

[Infinity 324]

which reaction? you mean how their townread dropped because wisdom confirmed he didnt see the trust or?

Yup - their read was very "this happened therefore town / therefore scum" and I was looking for a bit more nuance.

i don't think nuance was really warranted in this situation

[Infinity 324]

i mean he hasn't really been posting

[Infinity 324]

well i didn't think he even had 19 posts so i guess?

he's kind of been on his own wavelength which i think is usual for him.

[Infinity 324]

what's up

[Infinity 324]

sounds good

[Infinity 324]

tbh i'm mostly confident in this townbloc, if someone wants something from me lmk

if i need to powertown at some point i can probably do that too

[Infinity 324]

i wouldn't go that far but yeah i don't like mafmen's paranoia here

[Infinity 324]

ok then

[Infinity 324]

qualify any of those reads pls or why you're townreading either wisdom or cookie or prism and why your read on Klick dropped so much

it literally has never dropped
i have never once townread klick and i have stated that many times
wisdom just decided to turn me saying his read is weak into an entire argument and force me into a position where i would be defending klick rather than be criticizing his read

i mindmelded with a lot of wisdoms earlier posts and his arrogance/stubbornness throughout our argument reads town
i divulged my cookie read earlier
prism is just gut, i like her attitude and id imagine an experienced player doesnt (as mafia) try to coast a game by saying theyre lost for reads

you really went through that whole thing just to include klick in your PoE anyway? -_-

like i get that you can get baited into the argument, but why did you think it was so important to call out wisdom's "bad reasoning" there

prism coasting is probably +town for her tbh, she has a lot of pride in her scumgame

[Infinity 324]

i think it's believable that town!you felt roped into the argument, but i still kinda think it's scum-indicative

like instead of talking about how you think town can't PoE that well in this setup you could've just accepted that someone scumreads your nullread

it's not really a big point anyway

[Infinity 324]

mafmen i get that you want to keep your alt secret but we've figured you out, you can drop the act

[Infinity 324]

i really hope pooky is scum

[Infinity 324]

Maybe you're right and Wisdom is scum. I still prefer Klick in the final two but there are two scum somewhere, not one.

I'm really curious about what Tammy & Infinity think.

i should probably reread a bit, i still think the clear sequence is probably +town for wisdom

he feels pretty towny to me on tone, i also thought the push on mafmen was believable

i'd prefer leaving klick

[Infinity 324]

i really hope pooky is scum

though i really don't see how he thinks this advances his wincon

[Infinity 324]

Youre not worth responding to
Youre calling me dictator over a single trust
If youre town and this is genuine thats sad

[Infinity 324]

why are people not paired up yet

@pooky i haven't read what's going on but <3

[Infinity 324]

Welcome to the game, Ydrasse! Thanks for replacing in.

maybe I should actually play this game now

[Infinity 324]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=13082742#p13082742]post 1513[/url], Ydrasse"]i want to believe infinity can powertown as they said in f4. i also don’t want to read them because i’m notoriously bad at it[/quote]

i don't know if i believe myself

[Infinity 324]

does anyone have an explanation for pooky's treatment of the wisdom slot if scum?

[Infinity 324]

no prism answered it

[Infinity 324]

Tammy being not confident in her scumgame makes her more likely to snap accept a trust

[Infinity 324]

ship it

[Infinity 324]

i don't think prism is scum here but yeah

[Infinity 324]

have had a shitty past few days, might get to this tomorrow

[Infinity 324]

this is probably a cold take, but i think cookie is actually the scum who wants prism not to pair

[Infinity 324]

like i get being paranoid is a scum mindset here if your partner is outside the pairing plan, but from what I've read it seems very reasonable not to hard tr enchant (why is he town?), self meta is convincing, also isn't prism the one pushing towards more analysis and not rushing?

tbh it's hard to stay motivated because it feels like we can probably win without me being paired, getting to f4 would definitely up my motivation, but prism is right that i really should start playing now.

[Infinity 324]

i feel like trust testing enchant, anyone oppose?

why

[Infinity 324]

fair enough, i don't think scum!enchant accepts you anyway.

i just don't get why he's town

[Infinity 324]

yay i guess

[Infinity 324]

wait seriously?

[Infinity 324]

i don't get you prism

[Infinity 324]

oh ok cool

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I mean I'll take it but ?????

Sorry if irl/the general nastiness of the game got in the way, scum

it was mostly irl + me generally not being motivated to play mafia. by the time i realized i didn't want to play, i felt it would've been shitty to replace out. sorry for not giving you a game