Open 828 | The Brethren Coalition | Game Over!

[MathBlade]

Hey working right now will read later.

Can someone say who they absolutely want in the coalition please? Only one name allowed no naming yourself.

[MathBlade]

who i dont want in is ssbm and yessir no replace will convice me a man convice agesnt his will . will death tunnel.

Interesting. I am curious as to why.
This also doesn’t answer who you do want in your coalition.

Would you accept any coalition that did not have me and Kyo?

This is an odd way of dodging my question. There’s a reason I am asking it like this.

[MathBlade]

who i dont want in is ssbm and yessir no replace will convice me a man convice agesnt his will . will death tunnel.

Interesting. I am curious as to why.
This also doesn’t answer who you do want in your coalition.

Would you accept any coalition that did not have me and Kyo?

This is an odd way of dodging my question. There’s a reason I am asking it like this.

Ignore the not answering sorry
Phone cut off the Pav post

[MathBlade]

Here’s a thought I had about the setup while my build loads:

Aim for a coalition of 5 town.
But we should also vote for the last Townie of the 5 in that coalition for elimination.

Reason being is that if it’s all 5 town we win so we don’t care if we elim a townie
But if we don’t win then we narrow the scum to 1 in 4 or 2 in 4 at day start.

This forces scum to shoot in the PoE outside the towniest we already declared or have a 1 in 3 or 2 in 3 shot of elimming scum.

Agree or disagree and thoughts?

[MathBlade]

Agree that we aim for a coalition of five Town.
Agree that we eliminate inside the Coalition if it fails.

Not sure if you were advocating for setting up a hammer before the Coalition passes (so that it processes instantly in the event of a Coalition failure); if you were, I'd disagree with that. We still want a chance to get reactions from people both inside and outside the Coalition if it fails, and I don't see the gain in passing this up.

Did I misread the setup in that we have a coalition and then elim happens the same time of the coalition?

I am not advocating for an immediate hammer should it happen. Ideally if it fails we get communication time.

I personally do not care if I am on or off the coalition. While the instant win is nice I find it’s kinda scummy to demand to be on the coalition due to scum needing at least one person on it.

[MathBlade]

What I find interesting is a lot of one word answers to my question rather than actively advocating for why the player they picked should be on the coalition without explanation. Not sure what it means yet but that seems telling.

Pedit: Agreed. I will ask redtea after work about what happens to the elim after the coalition fails and if we get discussion time or not.

If we do we might want to Ram through a coalition ASAP of initial townreads and see if we win. If we don’t then the excluded 4 players are at least 3 town if not all 4.

So means we have a deep wolf in our initial impressions.

Yes instantly winning is good but I don’t think that should be the goal.

[MathBlade]

My point of this is it’s more important that a coalition resolves than it being the coalition you exactly want.

Not being given a split at all is worse than having it fail because then it’s a 7v2 mountainous and that’s brutal.

[MathBlade]

Did I misread the setup in that we have a coalition and then elim happens the same time of the coalition?

I am not advocating for an immediate hammer should it happen. Ideally if it fails we get communication time.

Elimination happens on D1 as soon as there's a hammer, unless the Coalition hasn't formed yet. (pretty sure that's right - regardless, we don't want to be casting any hammer votes pre-Coalition if it's wrong either.)

And I'm positive that we will have discussion time as long as we don't hammer anyone - and have time left on the clock. The clock doesn't reset on a Coalition failure, so we won't want to wait to the last minute to approve a Coalition.

PEdit> and yes, under no circumstances do we want to *not* make a Coalition. Better to have one fail than skip it entirely.

Cool then sounds like an I derped on rules reading thing.

Now on the last VC it’s kinda hard to read but it looks like no one has been added to the coalition yet right?

I am expressing intent to vote for every person who has the highest amount of votes to be in the coalition after work.

Based on what has happened so far I am thinking this might shake up stuff and then we can see who doesn’t want that group to go and why.

[MathBlade]

My point of this is it’s more important that a coalition resolves than it being the coalition you exactly want.

Not being given a split at all is worse than having it fail because then it’s a 7v2 mountainous and that’s brutal.

100% concur with this but we are in no danger of not forming a coalition at this point. Lots of time, yet

We do but then only a few days for elim.

I’d rather win or fail as fast as possible then more time if we are wrong for an elim.

[MathBlade]

Ugh that’s…confusing lol.

I volunteer to be out of the coalition then unless someone wants me in it. Apparently if Cyrus is town my slot done goofed somehow so I don’t mind being outside of it. Then we have it down to 8 unless someone actively wants me in it.

[MathBlade]

Ugh that’s…confusing lol.

I volunteer to be out of the coalition then unless someone wants me in it. Apparently if Cyrus is town my slot done goofed somehow so I don’t mind being outside of it. Then we have it down to 8 unless someone actively wants me in it.

(This is town btw unless we already done goofed and have scum in there)

I thought you said we didn’t have a coalition ergo no one is in anything?

[MathBlade]

Pavowski - (9)
cyrus62 - (9)
Save The Dragons - (7)
Nathann - (3)
Farren - (3)
yessiree - (2)
Hakai - (4)
ssbm_Kyouko - (2)
Enchant - (0)

Since this list, Nathann and I have been healed once each - so Mathblade's proposed Coalition based on what he said earlier would be cyrus, Pavowski, Save The dragons, and two of (me / Nathann / Hakai).

Yup. Pretty much assuming this post is factually accurate what I would do. Then can see if there’s scum in the majorly townread players or not.

[MathBlade]

Yeah. Realistically, cyrus and Pavowski are going to be in whatever ends up forming. Save The Dragons is almost certainly going to be in it as well. The last two slots are more open to debate.

Interesting what makes you say that? I am not for or against that having not read but I find it odd that is already hard locked considering you’re not in it.

[MathBlade]

Yup. Pretty much assuming this post is factually accurate what I would do. Then can see if there’s scum in the majorly townread players or not.

One thing to note: those numbers also include your predecessor's Coalition choices.

Okay noted so?

[MathBlade]

Okay noted so?

Do you think that matters?

Not really. I am going to verify what was said was true then vote.

My votes will move accordingly based on who is the most popular for the coalition.

Whether my predecessor agreed or disagreed with that approach is irrelevant.

I am not looking to insta win I am looking for the scenario most advantageous long term for us.

I find it very unlikely public agreement will happen between 5 people who are town and believe they are town.

I fully expect the coalition to fail but if it wins happy times.

[MathBlade]

It's not what your predecessor thought of the approach that matters here.

It's more: are you considering your predecessor's opinions towards the consensus when calculating what the consensus is?

I was yes because I don’t have any reads right now and I figured that would (in combination with reading) get the purest reads possible. I am better with mechanics than reads so I was going to. Include my predecessors.

[MathBlade]

Okay noted so?

Do you think that matters?

Not really. I am going to verify what was said was true then vote.

My votes will move accordingly based on who is the most popular for the coalition.

Whether my predecessor agreed or disagreed with that approach is irrelevant.

I am not looking to insta win I am looking for the scenario most advantageous long term for us.

I find it very unlikely public agreement will happen between 5 people who are town and believe they are town.

I fully expect the coalition to fail but if it wins happy times.

It's for this reason I don't want us to go from 5 separate vote-sets to 5 identical ones in rapid succession. We should take our time.

That said, Cyrus and I have an identical set right now, and a couple others have several people in common.

Nah I don’t think we should.

I think instantly winning is a pipe dream and the more time we have for an elim the better.

[MathBlade]

Okay noted so?

Do you think that matters?

Not really. I am going to verify what was said was true then vote.

My votes will move accordingly based on who is the most popular for the coalition.

Whether my predecessor agreed or disagreed with that approach is irrelevant.

I am not looking to insta win I am looking for the scenario most advantageous long term for us.

I find it very unlikely public agreement will happen between 5 people who are town and believe they are town.

I fully expect the coalition to fail but if it wins happy times.

It's for this reason I don't want us to go from 5 separate vote-sets to 5 identical ones in rapid succession. We should take our time.

That said, Cyrus and I have an identical set right now, and a couple others have several people in common.

Nah I don’t think we should.

I think instantly winning is a pipe dream and the more time we have for an elim the better.

Way I figure it, we get it close to a coalition and leave it for 24, 48 hours, see who gets squirmy

No sense not trying for the d1 win.

Sounds fine to me. Just I would say leave it for no more than 48 for discussion time. If someone doesn’t object within prod range they don’t care enough to. (Exception if anyone is VLA we look at their posting and see if they would)

[MathBlade]

HURT: pav so dislike this

Why do you dislike what’s going on?

[MathBlade]

I am kinda thinking Cyrus might be scum here.

I don’t see a reason for objection here unless I am missing something?

[MathBlade]

I am kinda thinking Cyrus might be scum here.

I don’t see a reason for objection here unless I am missing something?

Do you mean for the thread at large or for this latest development?

This latest development. I just clocked out and plan on reading but I don’t see why Cyrus removes Pav from their coalition and then when I ask why doesn’t explain. The only thing we’ve done is explain a plan for the coalition and I see nothing objectionable from Pav.

[MathBlade]

It’s cool if Cyrus disagrees and explains why but I see nothing meriting you from it.

So I find Cyrus sus for doing so.

[MathBlade]

It’s cool if Cyrus disagrees and explains why but I see nothing meriting you from it.

So I find Cyrus sus for doing so.

Meir it if removing you from it*

[MathBlade]

It's kinda what I thought might happen if we did what I said in 513

Only way ahead of schedule

Great minds think alike?

Looking forward to Cyrus’s explanation while I read.

Gut feeling Kyo is scum if Cyrus is due to wanting Kyo off wagon.

(I reserve the right to change any gut feelings based on reading)

[MathBlade]

It's kinda what I thought might happen if we did what I said in 513

Only way ahead of schedule

Then again it *is* Cyrus

I have no idea of the context of his play?

What does this mean?

[MathBlade]

Great minds think alike?

Careful, there, cowboy, or I'll start townreading your slot again

Sounds fun. You should do it

[MathBlade]

Okay noted so?

Do you think that matters?

Not really. I am going to verify what was said was true then vote.

My votes will move accordingly based on who is the most popular for the coalition.

Whether my predecessor agreed or disagreed with that approach is irrelevant.

I am not looking to insta win I am looking for the scenario most advantageous long term for us.

I find it very unlikely public agreement will happen between 5 people who are town and believe they are town.

I fully expect the coalition to fail but if it wins happy times.

this reads as in tmi. As if you know for a fact you already know your partner is in the 5.

Again for those in the back. I literally do not care about who is in it as long as we have a coalition quickly.

Why did you ignore my question about unvoting Pav in your coalition?

[MathBlade]

Modifying redtea's list with this change:

cyrus62 - (9)
Pavowski - (8)
Save The Dragons - (7 >>> 6)
Nathann - (4 >>> 5)
Farren - (4 >>> 5)
Hakai - (4 >>> 3)
MathBlade - (2)
ssbm_Kyouko - (2)
Enchant - (0)

I will end up my coalition in the AM. I had something come up and it’s close to bed I just wanted to catch up.

[MathBlade]

HURT: All
HEAL: Farren
HEAL: cyrus62
HEAL: Pavowski
HEAL: Nathann
HEAL: ssbm_kyouko

Back to read order. Mathblade's on the border of my Coalition.

this sucks. I do not agree with this 5. I think that five has scum in it,

Again who cares?

Imho if scum is in it is not a good reason to veto a coalition imho.
It should be if you think the scum in it would survive to end game.

Because if you think the scum in it gets eliminated day one if scum then the risk is rather minimal.

[MathBlade]

MathBlade’s* play comes ass lamest shallow even. Hasn't given us any reason to trust him. And I already scum read yessir

Good thing I am not scum and angling for trust.

I am angling to pigeonhole scum.

Scum care about the composition.

I would like an all town team but I would much rather have a good feeling about majority of people then if I disagree on one universally TRd person fine because then they’re probably elimmed.

[MathBlade]

Not going to switch now. But I will point this out - aimed at the group, not cyrus specifically.

Mathblade's said he'll heal the five most healed people. Right now, that is: cyrus62, Pavowski, Save The Dragons, Nathann, me. That is also both Nathann's and Save The Dragons's current Coalition, which (assuming Mathblade doesn't change his mind AND no one changes the balance) will make 3/5 votes for a Coalition.

This is still correct. I will swap in the AM

[MathBlade]

Why doesn't kyouko wig you out, farren?

She probably would have wigged me out a few games ago.

Town doesn't know the answers. Scum does. Town's supposed to tell the truth; scum's supposed to lie. So logically, the ones who are overly confident - and shouldn't be - are the ones to watch out for.
Except for some players, that's not the way it works. I don't know why - but I've seen it too often to be able to deny it.

Right now, her agenda - and this should not be taken to mean 'scum agenda' - seems to revolve around keeping Nathann out. I don't see that being much benefit to scum|her, given that she's got low odds of making it into the Coalition. It doesn't feel fake to me; feels real, even if I disagree with it.

I will have to catch up on that but scum her does have an agenda if partnered with Nathan or if it’s just busy work to look like reads. Will have to see what shakes out.

[MathBlade]

Also for the record (since there's talk in adding more votes to the Coalition I'm currently voting), I'm rethinking both Farren and Save The Dragon's positions in it. Maybe Save The Dragon's moreso. But I'm not sure if I even have anyone to replace them with. MathBlade is a potential candidate (pending on his thoughts once he actually reads the game or at least some parts of it), but the other three... Still thinking Hakai is Scummy, and both Kyouko and Enchant are also acting Scummy, and while I have some weird gut thoughts they might be Townie (mostly because the things they're doing feel nonsensical for Scum), they're definitely not trying to actually act like it, which uh. Complicates things a bit.

Regarding setup thoughts and the history I am genuinely surprised by that. Whenever I play games that rely on a huge townblock as any alignment it’s usually ended up in a deep wolf. So yay? I usually don’t play opens though so have little experience with this setup.

[MathBlade]

Vote Count 1.08

Enchant (2):

MathBlade, cyrus62

ssbm_Kyouko (1):

Save The Dragons

Nathann (1):

ssbm_Kyouko

Enchant (1):

Hakai

Not Voting (4):

Enchant, Nathann, Pavowski, Farren

Coalition Count 1.08

Save The Dragons (5):

Save The Dragons, cyrus62, Pavowski, Nathann, Farren

Nathann (5):

cyrus62, Pavowski, Save The Dragons, Farren, Nathann

Hakai (4):

cyrus62, Pavowski, Hakai, Save The Dragons

Pavowski (5):

Save The Dragons, Hakai, Pavowski, cyrus62, Nathann

cyrus62 (4):

Nathann, Hakai, Save The Dragons, cyrus62

Enchant (2):

cyrus62, Pavowski

ssbm_Kyouko (5):

ssbm_Kyouko, Farren, cyrus62, Pavowski, MathBlade

Farren (5):

cyrus62, ssbm_Kyouko, Pavowski, Save The Dragons, Hakai

MathBlade (5):

MathBlade, Save The Dragons, Pavowski, cyrus62, Farren

Spoiler: # of Coalition Votes for Each Player

cyrus62 - (9)

Pavowski - (8)

Save The Dragons - (7)

Nathann - (4)

Farren - (4)

Hakai - (4)

MathBlade - (2)

ssbm_Kyouko - (2)

Enchant - (0)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: (expired on 2021-10-09 19:48:54)
Reminder that the countdown has resumed for those who might've missed it.

HURT: All prior coalition votes
HEAL: Pav
HEAL: StD
HEAL: cyrus (even though I think he is scum)
HEAL: Farren
HEAL: Nathann

[MathBlade]

Math I know you're still catching up but when you can, I want to hear your thoughts on nathann and Hakai.

Nathann is probably town. I liked the pushback on some of my thoughts. Very much evidence based rather than “but I wanna do my own silly thing based”.

No opinion on Hakai yet but I find it interesting that I am somehow linked to that slot.

[MathBlade]

@nathann unvote your self to show me I can work with you

This is disgusting.

[MathBlade]

I do not trust enchant or feral. I can't shake a nagging feeling that std isn't town.

Interesting…you somehow get from here to me and Kyo not in a coalition.

This means you likely have your buddy in there as well which explains the drastic Unvote when I explained the coalition idea. So I am guessing we have a very likely all town off coalition at this point.

[MathBlade]

Theres not enough information to get a read on me

Need more from STD. Cyrus +STD top theory atm

[MathBlade]

Oh my god am I real being town read with in 5 pages I think I'm going die from shock. @hakai how do you know my scum range ? How do you know my town range? How can you be so sure I am town. I could just be scum . Willing to work with town to look like I'm town. That said of is my 1st town read.

Yet no Hakai vote in coalition despite being first town read? Explain.

[MathBlade]

Catching up on the day. Long one at work.

And I'm not sure about Nathann yet.

Is this a "I don't have an opinion yet" or "I have a negative opinion"? If it's the latter, I'm interested in hearing about it.

No real opinion yet.

i think reading me is like a fine wine it gets better with age

HEAL: cyrus

Ugh does this mean I have to townread STD now too? Up is down

I lock in my 5.

Locking in at this point is a mistake, but probably a town one

HEAL: cyrus
HEAL: Pavowski
HEAL: Hakai
HEAL: STD

This is at least 3/5s of a good list

Truth is I didn't want to be in any ones 5. Since if the 5 fail we will be looking at them more closely.

The hell is this.

I have to remind myself that trying to make sense of Cyrus is an exercise in frustration and hair loss

Pav and I are mind melding so prob town left off here

[MathBlade]

You're hot then you're cold
You're yes then you're no
You're in then you're out
You're up then you're down

You're wrong when it's right
It's black and it's white
We fight, we break up
We kiss, we make up

Still thinking Cyrus + STD

[MathBlade]

Hesitant to add either of cyrus or pavowski because of their popularity so far. Heals seem to be given to them easily, probably because they've talked a lot is the feeling I've gotten. Hakai, what are you feeling from Cyrus that feels out of his scumrange?

Kyo where are your wordy word words?

[MathBlade]

If someone does not vote themselves into the coalition in this game it is against the town wincon and serves the scum wincon.

Consider the numbers - there are 9 of us, it is 7-2. Vote yourself into the coalition. There are 3 scenarios:

0 scum: Town wins. Yay!
1-2 scum: from each town player's POV, there is at least 1 scum inside a pool of 4 where town has 3 muslims available. If there is only 1 scum, you get 3 shots to hit scum where eliminating randomly you have a 75% chance of hitting scum in those 3 eliminations (probability is 1 minus the chance of hitting town 3 times in a row, so 1 - (3/4 * 2/3 * 1/2), cancel out the fractions you get 1 - 1/4, or 3/4, or 75%.

And that's the worst case. There's a chance there are 2 scum in the coalition which makes it a 100% chance to hit 1 scum in the first 3 eliminations from a town POV.

Players avoiding the coalition are avoiding the thunderdome and are playing to the scum wincon, which is to send a sacrificial goat to the coalition and have a deepwolf outside to close the game.

That’s assuming it fails yes.

I am more for using the coalition to see if the popular vibes are correct. If we get 5 town awesome but if we fail then the excluded become the voice of reason.

[MathBlade]

Just throwing townreads to whoever is willing to work with you is not going to find you 5 town.

Kyo is town. Give me more of the wordy word goodness.

[MathBlade]

Won't heal ebbs only person to ask to be in the five like 3 post why should we trust your town.

Because when I'm town it is obvious so I'm a good candidate for the coalition regardless of my.alignment. easy to catch if scum, easy to clear if town.

And if you're scum then the coalition fails.

something about ssbm's posts bother me

Kinda sorta feel the same, but they're only a couple posts deep.

The good thing about this is round 1 isn't necessarily about finding scum, it's about finding town.

Ssbm doesn't feel town yet.

Implying I will feel town later?

VOTE: kyo
This is literally shading someone over their choice of words.

Also I'm pondering hakai's comment on Cyrus scumrange. Going to check back to owner's market blitz. It had a similar town-finding mechanic where players elected a market owner as well as voted for an elim on D1.

Slightly +town for this observation.

If someone does not vote themselves into the coalition in this game it is against the town wincon and serves the scum wincon.

Consider the numbers - there are 9 of us, it is 7-2. Vote yourself into the coalition. There are 3 scenarios:

0 scum: Town wins. Yay!
1-2 scum: from each town player's POV, there is at least 1 scum inside a pool of 4 where town has 3 muslims available. If there is only 1 scum, you get 3 shots to hit scum where eliminating randomly you have a 75% chance of hitting scum in those 3 eliminations (probability is 1 minus the chance of hitting town 3 times in a row, so 1 - (3/4 * 2/3 * 1/2), cancel out the fractions you get 1 - 1/4, or 3/4, or 75%.

And that's the worst case. There's a chance there are 2 scum in the coalition which makes it a 100% chance to hit 1 scum in the first 3 eliminations from a town POV.

Players avoiding the coalition are avoiding the thunderdome and are playing to the scum wincon, which is to send a sacrificial goat to the coalition and have a deepwolf outside to close the game.

While this is a valid mech observation it also relies on you being town.

@mod I never healed Farren

That's showing me healing you, not you healing me.

Oops.

HURT: Hakai
HEAL: ssbm_Kyouko

Why?

Yet

Alright idk if scum jokes about this immediately after I call it out. I think Pav was scum in Dead Silence but that was a lolgame and I learned nothing. Leaning town here possibly.

This observation seems more likely to come from town.
VOTE: Nathann/v]

seems pretty NAI especially if someone is aware of their meta

could also just be a complete lie

Breaking one's meta - even when aware of it - is easier said than done. Especially as scum. It's not impossible, but it is challenging. Especially over the long haul.

The complete lie is certainly possible - although if it is a lie, it's one that could be disproven with a solid meta-dive. Would be pretty risky at this point - it's early enough in the game that there's plenty of time to metadive her and disprove it, if it's false.

It's not a lie, I've played many games with her. The only problem is that scum Kyo doesn't really get scumread unless you know her meta.
Thinking about it, I actually have a lot of experience with everyone in this playerlist except yessiree and Farren.

Your reads suck but you’re town. Kyo is town here imho

[MathBlade]

Save the dragons is right I play mafia the same way I live I post what's ever on my mind . But I also try to get town fighting each other so I can be the voice of reason lol.

And look at who is trying to claim themselves as the voice of reason.

This reads very much like truthtelling scum.

[MathBlade]

Convice me ssbm is town.

Convince me she’s scum. She’s the second player I have mind melded with.

[MathBlade]

I'm telling you lot I am scum gee how many times do I have to say it.

I believe you’re scum.

[MathBlade]

@mod, what happens if a Coalition is not locked in by deadline? Is plurality in effect, or does no Coalition occur?

No coalition occurs and the game continues as a mountainous, same as if a coalition fails. Will update the rules to clear this up.

If a majority of players want an extension I can grant one though.

How do we vote for an extension? PM?

[MathBlade]

truth is if math is town he . he is bloody awful at it. if he is scum he is good at it and getting him or ssbm in the 5 seems to be his plan then he plans on blameing the others for it failing.

Again I lack a plan. Halfway jokingly debating giving you what you want as the coalition. Majority of the game townreads you imho incorrectly.

Either A we win or B you put me in the Thunderdome and we 1v1 or C you keep me out of it and I tunnel you. None of this seems bad to me.

[MathBlade]

Kinda curious where I know Hakai from. I don’t remember playing with Hakai

[MathBlade]

hakai is an alt that claims to know us all

I mean like duh but just more curiosity.

I wish them fun and alt hunting is bad but I am curious.

I just wish I had better town games on MS.

On other sites I am good town and scum.

[MathBlade]

Math, what do you find Townie/mindmeldy about Kyouko and Hakai? Because the two of them are (right now, at least) the two I absolutely want to keep out of my Coalition, and I would like to know if I am wrong on that.

Kyo’s mechanics seem to come from a Townie mindset I like what she’s doing there.

Hakai while I disagree with the reads seems genuine and I can see the townieness.

[MathBlade]

This is a simple open setup, there's not much in mechanics this game that Scum couldn't replicate. Why do you find that worthy of a Townread?

And also, like, I can't see the genuineness from Hakai, that's why I am asking. :/

Just because a setup is open doesn’t mean people can’t have thoughts about it.

I am going to make an extreme suggestion to make a point.

Say a setup has a rule where there’s scum in one of two players.

More than likely just elim both is the right way to go.

But someone else could make the argument that’s a bad idea.

Generally you elim within a 50/50.

We have had several discussions regarding mechanics and hers matched my thoughts.

And I don’t know how to explain it but I feel it.

[MathBlade]

I'm gonna give Math a chance to finish reading the game and to then give thoughts, but I would be lying if I said I got a good feeling from anything I've read from him (irl) today. Which contrasts the earlier read I had, but hmm... Game hard.

I did finish.

If you don’t like me then don’t put me in the coalition.

I am town then the coalition likely fails and we demonstrate that I am likely town.

I fail to see the problem here.

Cyrus is scum who has not answered my questions several times now.

Then he goes off about a “trap”.

I literally do not care who goes in. I am hoping we win but expecting it to fail long as Cyrus is in it.

[MathBlade]

Okay, can you tl;dr your reads then, please? You've expressed some but not all I believe.

The issue is that I would very much like to win via the Coalition.

1. Hakai town
2. Pavowski town
3. cyrus62 scum
4. Enchant town by the fact no one mentions hardly at all
5. ssbm_Kyouko town
6. Save The Dragons scum
7. Nathann town
8. Farren town
9. MathBlade yessiree town

If I am wrong in a read probably in the quieter players except Exchant. He’s too not mentioned to be scum.

[MathBlade]

Enchant*

[MathBlade]

do you really see scum!cyrus being like

cyrus: "i'm scum."
mathblade: "I'm calling you out on that"
cyrus: YOU ACTIVATED MY BIG BRAIN TRAP HURT ALL SHAKES HEAD GO AHEAD PUT MATH AND SSBM ON A COALITION SEE WHAT HAPPNES NOT MY FAULT

I called Cyrus scum before that point.

[MathBlade]

have you given a reason why i'm scum yet MB

someone else should ask this MB probably going to write me off as scum and ignore me for the rest of the game

Already did when I was catching up.
You seem partnered with Cyrus.

[MathBlade]

@mod, what happens if a Coalition is not locked in by deadline? Is plurality in effect, or does no Coalition occur?

No coalition occurs and the game continues as a mountainous, same as if a coalition fails. Will update the rules to clear this up.

If a majority of players want an extension I can grant one though.

How do we vote for an extension? PM?

Either by PMing me or @ing me (in bold), the usual communication methods.

@mod: Requesting extension

[MathBlade]

Theres not enough information to get a read on me

Need more from STD. Cyrus +STD top theory atm

You haven’t provided any thing to read you on and still haven’t.

Ergo this theory still applies.

Unless presented with counter evidence no reason to change my mind.

[MathBlade]

c'mon now, that's mechanics, that's your area of expertise

So you could ask this question?
So you could bus Cyrus then not be restrained by the PoE anymore.

Not sure why. I don’t know scum you well enough.

[MathBlade]

ok mathblade, who's number 3 in terms of scumminess

I don’t know? I have a general vibe I answered but I don’t have much more than that.

You’re still not giving reads so *shrug*

[MathBlade]

You haven’t provided any thing to read you on and still haven’t.

i would also argue that this is untrue given that people have me in the coalition

People have you in their coalition simply due to RVS /first impressions
I don’t townblock read less players

[MathBlade]

You haven’t provided any thing to read you on and still haven’t.

Is there any reason Save The Dragons is Scum other than apparently not providing things to be read on?

As I said earlier StD pinged me and in the context of the post I pinged makes sense with Cyrus.

Why aren’t you looking back at that section instead of asking me the same question ten times in 10 different ways?

[MathBlade]

Theres not enough information to get a read on me

Need more from STD. Cyrus +STD top theory atm

Here, I looked back and found the post. It is hot air and explains absolutely nothing. I also checked your ISO, no explanation anywhere. So.

It’s right there.
Where you quoted.

Std hasn’t given anything to read him by where as I have and others have.
The explanation is in the quote.

I don’t know what else to say there except it’s there

[MathBlade]

Why aren’t you looking back at that section instead of asking me the same question ten times in 10 different ways?

Partly because I am lazy. Mostly because your style of catching up and commenting on thibgs leaves a lot of noise for me to fig through to find that one post that mentions your read. And even if I find it, it doesn't actually explain anything, because all you're basing things on is vibes and pings. And I don't have anything against gutreads, don't get me wrong, but when you keep refusing to give out any substance of the reads, I'm going to start to think there actually isn't any.

It’s you calling it noise.

It’s called stream of consciousness.

You respond as fast as possible to help people see what exactly you’re thinking in that moment.

It works well for me to be read as I am. If I go into long winded explanations then people don’t get it and just go scum.

[MathBlade]

can you really not figure out why nathann and i are asking you to clarify your scum read on me?

Not really no.

It’s rather self evident, as of the time of that post you had no substance and were just throwing around Katy perry lyrics.

[MathBlade]

Std hasn’t given anything to read him by where as I have and others have.
The explanation is in the quote.

At the time, Kyouko had posted literally nothing game related, so did you magically know you were going to mindmeld with her later on so that you don't Scumread her for the lack of content?

And Save The Dragons has had reads. You keep kind of evading that.

Again when I got to Kyo’s post I melded with her mechanics.

I don’t hold an opinion until I get to where I see posts

I don’t remember Kyo posting anything so nothing to scumread

In contrast StD posted memorable filler to be liked

[MathBlade]

and you think that post is enough to explain a scumread on me

not only that but apparently at post 94 i was being scumread but since then i've posted a lot more and it's not changed your view?

this sounds like you're making it up and trying to justify a bad read tbh

The only thing memorable is you pushed me

Sure you posted random words none of it is memorable

[MathBlade]

you don't trust me? :crying:

Theres not enough information to get a read on me

Wanting to see if Save The Dragons reacts to a blatant disagreement of his statement, and if so, how.

i believe this gif speaks for itself

Spoiler:

*a choir of angels starts to sing through a hole in the clouds which is pretty neat considering i'm agnostic*

You're hot then you're cold
You're yes then you're no
You're in then you're out
You're up then you're down

You dont have to just assume I'm town

Examples

[MathBlade]

i've barely pushed you until 5 minutes ago

Correct only after I pushed you.

I know there’s omgus somewhere it’s a matter of where

[MathBlade]

okay what about my other posts

Your other posts are naked one liners

Eg I like Pav etc

Then later you could say I don’t like Pav

There’s nothing readbale

[MathBlade]

you don't trust me? :crying:

i'm town so i'm not going to

if i were scum i'd hurt myself to appease you

i think i like pav

Theres not enough information to get a read on me

i think reading me is like a fine wine it gets better with age

@Save The Dragons, any other takes?

nope

pav and cyrus are town

and i'm town

so that's 3 from me in my core

how the hell do you know my meta

are you one of them there alts i've been hearin' about

there's only one person on site that cares about my meta that i can think of

This entire iso has at best a few reads and they’re all one liners

Most of it is just bloated spam

Is the game better for the post?

No then I can’t read you off it and therefore scummy

[MathBlade]

Your read is supposed to “get better with age” then why has nothing developed?

In charge me up you did more than this

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?p=12707371#p12707371

Take here in charge me up

Sure one liners but they asked questions and interacted with the content.

It’s just you’re not here. There’s nothing I can glean as to why you have those thoughts

[MathBlade]

if you're town

big if

do you think that maybe you don't know how to read me

Quite possible but if I am misreading you showing you how makes you better town rather than keeping scummy play around and expecting people to just divine you town.

[MathBlade]

no i mean why did you vote nathann

Earlier he made a post that seemed like it was meant to deliberately call attention to the fact he was hurting himself in an attempt to gain townreads.

This is the only readable post out of what’s given and the fact you didn’t acknowledge a townread yet moved on is not a good look

[MathBlade]

290 is just a genuine emotion state regardless of alignment. The rest are all naked one liners.

If you can swap out a name for another in a post and still have it make congruent sense it’s not a post I can determine your alignment from

[MathBlade]

why do you think other people are able to "divine" me as town or are you really passing it all off as RVS reads that people conveniently forgot to remove by now

I don’t know. It seems like RVS crap but when I replace in I tend to have different opinions than most. RVS reads are usually pretty piss poor.

[MathBlade]

k imma tap out and let the people decide

hurt me if you think i'm scum
heal me if you think i'm town

i've posted reads
i've posted who i want on the coalition
i won't vote for a coalition that doesn't have me in it

if you really think mathblade's argument is valid i'm sorry for you and if you think mathblade is town for his progression of "I can't read STD by post 94." "Isn't it obvious why I'm scum reading STD?" "I can't read him by post 94, like i said." "Now that i'm being badgered about it, here's a bunch of posts I can't read that I didn't mention before despite being asked to clarify." then imma laugh at you

You’re misrepresenting my argument

If you have to summarize it as such
You’ve given no readable posts

Your post read like an rng with the condition you’re town.

We could play sub the player in like 75-80% of your posts and still have a coherent ISO.

You’re attacking me for being a bad explainer of what should be obvious.

[MathBlade]

I could buy being wrong on StD right on Cyrus and Nathann white knighting the hell out of StD.

[MathBlade]

Again I scumread you before I read any “trap” post.

You’re welcome to scumread me but at least do so logically. Otherwise it’s spam designed to masquerade as content.

[MathBlade]

Let's do it this way every one that town reads mb heal him. Then we will talk. Every one who scum reads me or std hurt us . But I can with out a shadow of a doubt tell you . You will lose with mb in it.

One more time in the back stop trying to manipulate people.

I said I would sheep whatever you put up.

If people don’t townread me they don’t.

Other than people being honest with their reads I don’t give a fuck if I am in or out.

[MathBlade]

cyrus: why are you concerned with proving that you aren't scum with Save The Dragons?

I'm not so sure more or less for my own peace of mind if I can some how prove save isn't scum then I won't be so worried about him being in my five as for me . If I'm in the five I'm not the reason it fails . But if std and I both anit in it and it fails it proves the mb was throwing Sade to make us lose. I'm getting to the point where I think as long as pav and mb anit in it we will win.

Interesting dude supposedly wants to prove he’s not scum with StD or Nathann yet puts them first in his list.

Promise is a promise.

HURT: all prior coalition
HEAL: std Nathann enchant hika ferren

[MathBlade]

Spoiler:

if not for the weird "willing to remove myself from coalition" posturing

Scum want at least one member in the 5 me removing my self as scum would be game throwing. And I'm also willingness to be today's elemation if I am put in the 5 and we don't win now who's willng to put themselves up for elemation if they are locked in and we don't win?

I'm scum this time dul.

the best part is when im town i get scum read. but when i am town read no matter how many times i say im scum it doesnt draw any votes.

Save the dragons is right I play mafia the same way I live I post what's ever on my mind . But I also try to get town fighting each other so I can be the voice of reason lol.

I'm telling you lot I am scum gee how many times do I have to say it.

Going be fun watching people use the I'm scum post to vote me later lol.

and before you all start hurting me remember i never wanted in.

look close and your see how I set my trap

Again I had not read any of this.

Therefore it’s not catching me as I am not scum.

It’s like saying you left out three week old cereal and because I say another cereal is bad and going “aha caught you” it’s not relevant

[MathBlade]

I'm telling you lot I am scum gee how many times do I have to say it.

I believe you’re scum.

Mb just said they didn't read anything that I put in the spoiler just now. The funny thing is this was in it. Lol so now he's not only twisting my words. Useing what I set up to see who was optonisic enough to try to scum read me for it. But is also going fabricate not tripping the trap by saying he didn't read it . Even though he him self posted it. Btw if your a girl mb sorry for saying he or him.

Had not AT THAT TIME. Dude grammar.

I am a trans guy. I don’t know where the girl comment came from. That’s like wtf?

[MathBlade]

I do not and will not refer to myself as a girl.

[MathBlade]

I'm telling you lot I am scum gee how many times do I have to say it.

I believe you’re scum.

Mb just said they didn't read anything that I put in the spoiler just now. The funny thing is this was in it. Lol so now he's not only twisting my words. Useing what I set up to see who was optonisic enough to try to scum read me for it. But is also going fabricate not tripping the trap by saying he didn't read it . Even though he him self posted it. Btw if your a girl mb sorry for saying he or him.

Had not AT THAT TIME. Dude grammar.

I am a trans guy. I don’t know where the girl comment came from. That’s like wtf?

so you want us to belive you read 353 didn't read 361 or 212. Before useing 353 to try to frame me as scum.

1) I am not trying to frame you I believe you are scum.

2) No my point is the 600+ posts are from before I read 353. I said you were scum before reading 353.

[MathBlade]

Interesting dude supposedly wants to prove he’s not scum with StD or Nathann yet puts them first in his list.

Why does position in the list matter for cyrus's rankings?
Where did cyrus say he wanted to prove he wasn't scum with Nathann specifically?

The latter is more a logical leap on my part. It’s not said explicitly but I have said he would be scum with StD or Nathann. I find it no coincidence that he has both of those first in his list. It’s more a “I thought about these players first/they are most important to me”. Whatever alignment someone is whoever they mention first tends to be the most important.

[MathBlade]

Btw if mb isn't scum this will be the last game I play with them. Just bloody awful town play to join and sling mud at people. I neverd wanted in the five, I even got mad when I was put in it. When there was at 8 I knew my five must have scum in it some where,

Bloody awful town play to push scumreads?

If this is the last game we play together then you need to play a bit more mafia. You will get pushed as any alignment. Saying shit like this is deeply deeply uncool. Step away if you have to or if you feel you want to do this.

[MathBlade]

"Supposedly" makes it sound like it's something cyrus has stated, not that it's a conclusion you've drawn.

He did state StD to be fair but yes Nathann is a logical leap.

[MathBlade]

I honestly think mb is useing lamest. Tmi and omg to try to ruin the five and also trying to frame me as scum. Yes I am angry why he sucks as town, I'm scum reading him others are scum reading him . And he just keep useing weak garbage reads to try to look town..

Again what “five” am I ruining? I literally said you’re a double voter. I think this will prove you’re scum because you’ll put you or your buddy on it. If you’re town then you put on all town I am an idiot and gg.

I don’t think my reads are “garbage”. You have to say they are and I get that but this feels like you’re more trying to survive then push me and try to find my non existent partner.

[MathBlade]

I don’t know you from anyone. I am sorry you were pushed in prior games. I don’t have that knowledge here and this is a distinct event. Why is my play garbage? Because I reached the “wrong” conclusion? I am just answering posts. Happiness in mafia shouldn’t depend on being townread. Mountainous setups like these are good practice for being able to express one’s self in new ways without mechanics getting in the way. After today it’s all vanilla.

This reads like caught scum. If you think I am scum push me to find my (non existent) partner. Make me give more reads.

Just giving up here is really anti town.

I have had games where I am off the wall wrong. I have had games where I am spot on. I am trying to boost you up to where you can prove my read wrong.

This response is disappointing.

[MathBlade]

I think this will prove you’re scum because you’ll put you or your buddy on it. If you’re town then you put on all town I am an idiot and gg.

This is a bad argument.

cyrus putting himself on the Coalition would not prove he's scum.
cyrus being single-handedly responsible for assembling a Coalition that failed would not prove that he's scum.
If putting all Town in a Coalition were that easy, this setup would have died long ago.

I think it’s a pretty good reaction test if he took it. Because then the others are more likely town with him. Or in the case I am wrong it’s a town driven coalition. Win win.

[MathBlade]

Sometimes people need a break from the game. Give cyrus some time, see what happens.

Down for this. I think dude just needs a breather.

Hopefully he looks at the game with a new mindset and something new pops out that shakes the game.

[MathBlade]

HEAL: Save The Dragons

Hurt std so if it fails . I can push mb. Better yet put mb in it . Pre edit. I don't want in the five. Gee. Pre edit twice . I don't want in it thank you ferren.

Whatever list you want.

[MathBlade]

MB ,pav ,encant,ssbm ferren. It's sure to fail but the 4 on the outside can push the five willing to bet both scum would be in it. And if not I still win that's a nice compromise.

I actually think this is an all town list.

HURT: all prior names
HEAL: Myself, Pav, enchant, Kyo, ferren

[MathBlade]

@mb so if I'm the big bad scum who is my partner well. It can't be save or nathann other wise this would be game throwing. So if it can't be std or nathann . Who is it.

Not sure. Could be a fake out or an all town list or I have something wrong.

Will be interesting to see what happens with this coalition.

[MathBlade]

@mb so if I'm the big bad scum who is my partner well. It can't be save or nathann other wise this would be game throwing. So if it can't be std or nathann . Who is it.

Just thought of something . As town playing to my wincon I can't make a list that contains both scum other wise I'm game throwing and not playing to my wincon.

If you’re town putting two scumreads on it can be a valid strategy.

I put you on it earlier despite my scumread.

I think what matters is if you have a strategy in mind. It’s not so much black and white throwing.

[MathBlade]

Eg you can be scum with someone off list and hope the coalition fails. You could be town and want focus on those players. Lots of options.

[MathBlade]

So mb looks bad. So now let's decied out of throse five who we think is scum.

The only thing I have heard for me being bad is scumreading you.

Who do you think I am scum with?
What questions do you have for me?

I am not scum but I think actively hunting me will help you see that

[MathBlade]

i want to win by coalition

putting my two top scumreads in a coalition seems dumb

i'm not voting for any coalition that doesn't include me

thats what upset me so much worrying about it. But you seen how fast pav town read mb, at that point we were not going to win on day one. I already know pav and mb are scum together. But when it fails I can vote them off.

Interesting solve. Why is pav scum to you? And why with me?

I am town so a fast townread of me is correct.

[MathBlade]

@mb your worse then a kid , I have gut reads and so far I always hit one scum on day 1. Rather I get them voted off or not doesn't matter my reads are normally right. Any way give me a break okay . Before I try to find reasons why your scum. Other then you stepping in dog crap . Tracking it around and then trying to say you didn't step in it. When every one smells it and sees you tracking it around.

None of this is a reason and just a personal attack. Then if I flip green you’ll just do “he sucks”.

I have seen this before from scum.

You really don’t want to go down this path.

You really sound like you need a chill pill so you can adequately explain a case/what is bad.

[MathBlade]

I was town reading pav until it took only a few . Post out of context for him to town read my biggest scum read.

Okay which posts?

Sell it.

Push Pav.

Let others see what you do if you’re town.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Cyrus

Thought I had switched my vote

[MathBlade]

And if it fails then I do have egg on my face and I adjust my reads of the hood and revisit you.

This isn’t the big “gotcha”.

You’re saying things that make no logical sense and expecting others to follow it.

I am trying desperately to figure out what is Townie about you with the questions I am asking and not seeing anything.

You’re just attacking me with words like “kid” etc, it’s designed to be inflammatory.

What is anit? You’ve said this several times now.

[MathBlade]

I was town reading pav until it took only a few . Post out of context for him to town read my biggest scum read.

Okay which posts?

Sell it.

Push Pav.

Let others see what you do if you’re town.

im not in the five you are. I don't have to case you or pav I just have to wait for it to fail.

Correct you don’t have to case but it is much better if you’re town if you do.

[MathBlade]

And if it fails then I do have egg on my face and I adjust my reads of the hood and revisit you.

This isn’t the big “gotcha”.

You’re saying things that make no logical sense and expecting others to follow it.

I am trying desperately to figure out what is Townie about you with the questions I am asking and not seeing anything.

You’re just attacking me with words like “kid” etc, it’s designed to be inflammatory.

What is anit? You’ve said this several times now.

I said kid once wow touchy much. And we all know what ain't is your trying to act innocent your not. I'm trying to rise above you and play nice. Would you prefer the word dude . Also it works this way if the five fail we know one scum is there . Or maybe both std already stated who his top scum reads are you and ssbm I don't see you asking him. But yes you will be the 1st voted off.

Correct. I am not asking him. I am trying to poke and prod you to see if my read is accurate. You’re making it very difficult to reassess you with your constant aggro instead of just answering the question being asked.

Yes I am touchy because you’re actively trying to discredit with word choices. I would prefer dude yes.

Age is completely irrelevant in scum hunting. Sometimes kids are better than adults. I am in no way shape or form a kid. And yes that’s how the five works.

You’re the one who made this aggro hell. I am trying to get you to communicate more so I can see your thought process. All I am seeing is crap on Math.

[MathBlade]

Site is loading super slow for me so gonna call it a night. Can someone who townreads Cyrus tell me why please?

[MathBlade]

Site is loading super slow for me so gonna call it a night. Can someone who townreads Cyrus tell me why please?

A lot of people ignored this. Can you please respond to this? Thanks!

[MathBlade]

Prod dodge busy with chores

Will catch up later but hoping to re-evaluate my Cyrus read when I do

[MathBlade]

so my 5 would have lost since i had haki in it lol

Hey sorry I misread you.

I am way better at townreads than scumreads

[MathBlade]

Gg all