Open 806: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[Isis]

Is Mena town?

[Isis]

We should be looking for groupscum and shirou repping in and pushing speakers to eleven does not seem conducive with schi scum

[Isis]

Why is Schiavetto scum? Are you just running a brutish omgus algorithm all day?
I don't think schi's reasons to sus BB are particularly good but it's very believable he believes them

[Isis]

Schi was doing well when shirou repped in so shirou should have been less entropy/impact oriented coming in if that's the partner(s)

[Isis]

Datisi I'm really frustrated cause impl is kind of priced into this vote as any alignment but you don't seem to have a real reason and your like not putting effort into this at all

[Isis]

Why is Schiavetto scum? Are you just running a brutish omgus algorithm all day?
I don't think schi's reasons to sus BB are particularly good but it's very believable he believes them

No, it’s because schiavetto has been a non-slot lurker since middle of D1, has done nothing, taken no stances, has had no interest in solving the game, avoided and produced for most of D2, and upon finally turning up has a convenient pile of words on why the top wagon is scum but FOR SOME REASON decides to keep voting the other top wagon in spite of that

it is a trajectory that screams scum, and a pattern of behaviour that does the same

-QB

This is a towncase

Or just a description of what s_s protege's look like

Schiavetto has 250 posts. Ever.

[Isis]

your like not putting effort into this at all

Ahh, your own approach to sorting out slot, I see

-QB

I can develop empathy for how you misread me in some of my games. It would be more enjoyable to play with you if you had some more often.

It's maybe not the best game to remark on that since I've had a dismissive posture towards your slot at times this game. But it's our of respect for your perceived ability to play scum and how entertaining my thoughts on the angles where you're town make me vulnerable to you making that the only truth cause like. I'm actually really bad at reading people I've engaged with, a lot of the time, it's a weird thing about my playstyle I've mentioned in other games occasionally. My peanut gallery reads are my best reads.

But anyway, telling me I didn't do effort is unfair. I guess it would be equivalent to calling me talented, since it would go that if I have a wrong read in you, I have not set forth any effort, because I'm talented enough that it would result in reading you correctly. But anyway it is kind of grating to hear when I have been considering worlds where usher you towards eLo and beyond it, all game, and have reread several of skitters posts deciding which direction they nudge, and generally have been trying to work for a vote that's better than rand this phase. I think I'd be bothered less being called bad

[Isis]

VOTE: impl

[Isis]

It's hard to highlight the part of 3226 I don't like on mobile the arrow part is a really, really paper mache' thought process. Because "post stuff that is generally considered town" is not a behavior, posting is a behavior and other people townreading it is separate. This is a weird perspective slip where he is narrating what a game with a scumslot that got away looks like, but describing "posting a long post and getting townread for it" as a singular action is pretending to analyze schi's behavior while inadvertently using gamestates analysis that doesn't fit (it would only fit like, to describe what a partner is doing).

Its less slippy if impl is positing schi checked to see that the response to the posting was positive, and then chose to stop posting -because it was positive- but that doesn't make a lot of sense and I've never heard of it so id be giving different demerits for forcing the logic on this wagon too hard.

[Isis]

Because "post stuff that is generally considered town" is not a behavior, posting is a behavior and other people townreading it is separate.

To be clear: what I'm describing here is not literally "post stuff and by sheer power of will have everyone call you town for it". And I don't understand how that isn't obvious? What I'm describing is "do your best to post stuff that is town, be successful, and then (as infinity describes) no longer have reason to make as much effort"

I don't play scum that way at all so maybe there's a projection component in seeing things so differently here actually

[Isis]

viewtopic.php?p=12068019#p12068019
First word "scumread" is "townread", logic inversion typo

[Isis]

Hm "outed scum" is hyperbole that I think I maybe misapprehend the impact of. Thanks for the feedback. I think you're right that I could play differently

[Isis]

VOTE: PP

[Isis]

VOTE: impl

[Isis]

i don't feel that perfect about not mafia

why has no one solved this game for me yet

i townread too many people or things about people i have like all sorts of hedges

[Isis]

PP I'm not unvoting and sitting on the unvote so i'm somewhere in the left colum of your alignment chart o.k.

[Isis]

First thing would be, did infinity soft a clear/quasiclear yesterday? I haven't looked.

[Isis]

I'm situationally good, my mood is off though

[Isis]

i'm going to pretend me going "well implosion doesn't look like a shirou partner, buuuuut on individual play he is scummy" was a work of genius and not me ranomly stumbling onto the correct conclusion by not really having a clue

I felt like the way implo wanted to keep the burden of evidence on schiavetto being scum unless she posted stuff according to some kind of standard and the way he didn't bail on the Schiavetto wagon gave things away like that lim wouldn't have accomplished anything for town unless it was red which I doubt

[Isis]

Whoaaaaaa

[Isis]

No massclaim in 8-1thats silly

[Isis]

I will get out pencil and paper after work maybe to see what the ups and downs are. You can't unmassclaim tho so let me tinker before anyone lolclaims

[Isis]

Wait this setup has both three scum and two scum games wtff

[Isis]

We should play as if two scum are alive since those are the games we have the most risk of losing. Right?

[Isis]

Yeah. I think if there's one scum left, it literally has to be me, so I can't win because as soon as I make it to F3 with no scumflips I get insta-exed.

:surprised pikachu:

[Isis]

I think with some montyhallish logic the middle one is more likely cause we flipped a goon

[Isis]

Those compound, I think. but I'm not positive

[Isis]

Why do you tr me qb

[Isis]

I feel ignord

[Isis]

VOTE: bb

[Isis]

VOTE: bb

[Isis]

Typo, not for emphasis

[Isis]

Idk who to vote

[Isis]

what is the argument against limping NM today

does anyone have one?

-QB

50% mechanically cleared. It should feel less personal

[Isis]

PP has been pretty towny this phase I feel like maybe I want to gamble on town!PP

[Isis]

No there were some patches during D2 you weren't that towny

doesn't mean you're not town

[Isis]

I agree

[Isis]

i think i hear birds outside that's lovely i'm gonna go pass out

so many times in life i have heard birds outside and realized I'm up too late

this is so relatable

[Isis]

atp in the game I kind of want to explore BB teams or Datisi teams

They are worlds that make the most sense to me.

[Isis]

this is maybe weird to say but I think maybe this game has less obvtown than an "average game" and therefore we are probably in the setup that still has two scum left (!?!)

[Isis]

dreamposts are OP

[Isis]

petapan are you scum?

[Isis]

petapan why would you ever disbelieve your dreamreads if you were town?

[Isis]

wdym?

[Isis]

why is there a wagon on secyd, if secyd is scummy shouldn't we BoP kill Datisi?

Or do people think Datisi is independently towny?

like if sechyd is scum, Datisi's only contribution to the game has been hard defending scum for reasons I don't actually fully follow.

If Sechyd is town, ok, Datisi has one contribution to the game. Could still flip scum.


You only want to pick sechyd if sechyd is scum and datisi is town
which is like, the kind of thing you'd do if maybe sechydr was pocketing datisi but sechyd kinda hasn't?

I don't get it

[Isis]

maybe my eyes glazed over too much during spicy sechyd scumcasings

i can't remember that much in terms of cash-this-check scumminess about them.

gypyx being gone is a bit bad, gypyx being here earlygame cancels that out

[Isis]

why is there a wagon on secyd,

deadsheeping has been profitable.

In a different game from this one? None of Pooky's scumreads have flipped groupscum yet.

[Isis]

Philosophically I believe SKs are hunted very differently from groupscum and identifying a serial killer functions as an extremely weak indicator of having a particularly insightful view of the game. It is easily outweighed by the only other data point, not sussing the only flipped groupscum.

You're conflating "things are going well" with" "what makes things go well"

[Isis]

deadsheeping is 1/1 at killing serial killers and this game is confirmed not to have any serial killers.

[Isis]

you are the one adding constraints and complexity

[Isis]

it's probably town indicative for you to say this
which makes me frustrated
pedit: was that a lolhammer?

[Isis]

refusal to claim at e-Not-Mafia hopefully indicates this was scum

[Isis]

[Isis]

VOTE: secret hydra

[Isis]

Schiavetto, Datisi, petapan, N_M

Naturally I want to claim as late in the order as allowable by my peers.

[Isis]

petapan do you feel a little crestfallen

[Isis]

Vengeful. Peta, now

[Isis]

Just wanted to see what would happen. I was pretty sure it doesn't do anything but I don't feel it hurts. I'm the jailkeep

[Isis]

Schiavetto Schiavetto SS petapan. Yes I am possibly bad at playing power roles I didn't want one ok

[Isis]

I submitted PP before changing it because I didn't think I'd block again this game and it'd just put us on evens. So I went for roleblocking

[Isis]

This setup has a strongman, what?

[Isis]

Lol it does it's in the joat.

Either strongman or I was busdriven, or s_s' experience getting roleblocked was me busdriven onto him, and I was roleblocked.

Probably strongman

[Isis]

Im not sure it matter when the strongman was used unless you have a bead on how a certain player utilizes scum PRs. Tonight I will be shotted at do I will use the roleblock aspect which can't be strongged

[Isis]

Whoa

[Isis]

What was in the ten second look

[Isis]

That seems pretty sturdy reasoning if I believe you're town

[Isis]

I'd feel a lot better about an NM lim if this game has a texture of "everyone seems townie" but it doesn't really

[Isis]

If your pairwise read is correct and my early TR of you was correct then the game just goes in town's favor because I can roleblock one and lim the other

[Isis]

Datisi is the scummiest

[Isis]

So you share my townread of petapan, nm?

[Isis]

Schiavetto this is eLo unvote

[Isis]

If you are town voting town scum can quickhammer

[Isis]

That was not the pairing I was most eager to rule out but sure

[Isis]

Oh I guess that means either datisi or schi is scum

[Isis]

So it's not a danger for qh

[Isis]

These seem like fun posts to make as scum NM

[Isis]

Yours

[Isis]

If Schiavetto is scum e is not enjoying it

[Isis]

Yours

If Schiavetto is scum e is not enjoying it

Is this a comment on my alignment? I don't understand what conclusion I'm supposed to be drawing here

I think it might mean you're scum yes

[Isis]

Potentially

[Isis]

what's lcd?

[Isis]

least common denominator?

[Isis]

I think Datisi is voting Schiavetto fair mod

[Isis]

idk why I said fair, I guess cause his name reminds me of medieval stuff

[Isis]

I feel pretty sure I want Datisi or Not Mafia today I'm just not sure which.

I'm bad enough at this game to want to just count the 50% clear in Schiavetto's favor (that Schiavetto can only be the goon, I think it's a valid probability shift)

[Isis]

Maybe show me people to deadsheep about it. You feel off to me also.

[Isis]

I guess I would want to watch you sort but the game's kind of sorted from your PoV I guess if you buy into peta!town
Tell me how you would analyze NM's hammers/nothammers

[Isis]

NM do you play the game more as scum or town

[Isis]

Those have different implications about how you comparatively play SK!

[Isis]

I feel like I have not voted scum all game and am trigger shy

[Isis]

implo was SK and I think voting an SK means like an eight as much as what people think it means compared to group scum.
NM hasn't participated much/been readable this game so it was a default vote.
Voting you, if you're scum, is the one case where I have been perceptive in the context of this game.

[Isis]

actually i just realized something that makes it less likely for ico to be scum here but outing it would not be beneficial

rn i'm going through peta's iso ctrl+f'ing "datisi" and i found this and thought i might as well write what this was

it was my reaction to 2909. specifically the "if you are all truly scumreading us despite my words here, go right ahead and flip us, i do not currently have the strength to combat multiple of you". bc this just gave me such a flashback to this moment in one run of chain of command, where ico was getting run up, and straight out claimed vt without anyone giving intent. i thought this was similar bc the "oh whatever flip me" reveals similar ~non-survivalism~ that i heavily *heavily* connect to town!ico.

the problem was that i connect it to vt!ico. and there was zero chance in hell i was revealing that while isis was alive. i know what she does with premature vt claims.

I'm cracking up

[Isis]

Ahhhh that seems towny

[Isis]

It was a great hammer. It was a perfect hammer.

[Isis]

VOTE: NM

[Isis]

Jail ing dats if I somehow vanish

[Isis]

I'm jailing datisi unless I do the pencil math and it's mathematically correct to randomize but if I die you are supposed to know who can't have killed me right?

[Isis]

NM's trolling doesn't extend to actual selfhammer town concessions right

[Isis]

So the way the mech works, no-killing doesn't change the availability of doing a "bet the game on peta town and win" solve. But it stalls and creates an addition moment for us to reconsider a different win condition player. So that would be the only motivation.
I'm like not actually particularly interested in reconsidering the bet on peta town and win thing. He's played so incredibly well if scum

[Isis]

VOTE: Datisi oh yeah that happened

god how do you pay so much more attention to mech than I do

who's running nightless vanilla again

(i think implo deserved to win this tbh)

[Isis]

Datisi is one of my very favorite people on this web site

[Isis]

I have reservations about this setup but enjoyed all the players.

Undisclosed multitasking and daytalk was strange.

[Isis]

I don't see the downside to disclosing multitasking midgame to townies who ask

[Isis]

better to disclose stuff given that it's an open setup. Also, having a rule that you will only answer questions by PM is very annoying when it's an open setup, because all the answers you can give should be public info anyway.)

I disagree because the way the askers frame the questions to the moderator can be AI, and by adopting the policy you tuck the asking into PMs as well.

[Isis]

You replaced out right?

[Isis]