Open 816: C9++ || Game Over

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VOTE: tigerente

Heaven, are you an alt?

- lilith (aka... Smarter)

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Ah yes I am once again reminded of how dumb C9++ is.

-S

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That's a take I've not heard before.

-S

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VOTE: sircakes

- Smarter

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Gypyx

is aligned with the

Town

.

1 M, no more Ms. 6 letters to go.

Also, time for me to try and see what Gypyx does/doesn't as TOWN that he doesn't/does as Scum.

How do you there’s no more Ms?

- Smarter

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How do you there’s no more Ms?

*Sigh*

don’t sigh at me when you were wrong lmao. fmpov you were either wrong about the setup or scumslipping about the number of Ts

- Smarter

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Wait wait wait - Lilith is “smarter” than “smart?”

You make a hydra without smart or smarter in it and then plan on signing that way...is that right?

yeah sorry

I used to sign as "smart" but I haven't been liking that much so I've just been signing as "-S" recently

the smart/smarter gag was funny tho, but it was also probably confusing

-S

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fiiiine I'll go back to lilith

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yeah I'm actually suspicious of cakes

- lilith

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@skitter hiiii

can I answer you about cakes vote in a bit

- lilith

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Are you all familiar with another?

I've played at least one game with every other person on the playerlist. I'd say I'm very familiar with about half of them.

If you aren't an alt, then you might have picked a bad first game to jump into... but we'll do our best to keep things comprehensible. (That, I think, is why lilith wanted to know if you're an alt. Not for our sake, but for yours-- we're definitely going to cut you a lot more slack and be more helpful if you aren't.)

-S

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link to VC on page

wow I feel super ignored

- lilith

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cakes’ vote on heaven was bad

- lilith

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To elaborate: he voted heaven at a time when it seemed like multiple people were arguing with and starting to push heaven. It feels like a vote that’s meant to take advantage of that momentum rather than solve for heaven’s alignment.

- lilith

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To elaborate: he voted heaven at a time when it seemed like multiple people were arguing with and starting to push heaven. It feels like a vote that’s meant to take advantage of that momentum rather than solve for heaven’s alignment.

- lilith

sorry, what? at the time cakez voted heaven, i was the only person arguing with them, and i had already moved my vote onto dwlee prior to that. who was pushing heaven at that time?

someone else jumped in to argue about rvs. you were still going back and forth with heaven even though you had moved your vote. it really felt like cakes went "ahhh push the low hanging fruit heaven" when he voted.

what do you think his motivation for voting heaven was then?

- lilith

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also, a naked vote without acknowledging any of the discussion that was currently happening about/with heaven

- lilith

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I also have another reason for scumreading cakes but I don't think I want to talk about it yet

- lilith

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also, a naked vote without acknowledging any of the discussion that was currently happening about/with heaven

- lilith

honestly if this is what he was going after i think he would have voted dwlee given he indicated he wanted to sheep gypyx who had just voted dwlee

? that doesn't make much sense if I'm correct about him wanting to push seemingly LHF-heaven when he thought there might be appetite for a heaven wagon

- lilith

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I also have another reason for scumreading cakes but I don't think I want to talk about it yet

- lilith

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ok

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why am I scummy, as opposed to seeing things differently (or just wrong)?

- lilith

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also, a naked vote without acknowledging any of the discussion that was currently happening about/with heaven

- lilith

You know i don't always explain my thinking about things

is that all?

my vote stays.

- lilith

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I think I have a specific tell on cakes that is 98% of the reason I’m voting him. The other 2% is the heaven vote. SS asked me to not share the tell yet, therefore I only shared the heaven vote part.

- lilith

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pooky didn’t even have me in his initial readslist ftr. I don’t think of his read on me as “particularly strong”

- lilith

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@heaven what’s your opinion on cakes voting you and our current discussion of whether it is scummy for me to be pushing cakes for it?

- lilith

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considering that you described it as "meh", what do you think about that? or rather, what does "meh" mean.

I just found um the way you handled your own suspicions to be a bit incomplete. I know it's early but the idea that you can't have strong feelings about something is wrong. If I pinged you tonally then I pinged you tonally. I really expected you to get further about that, but you didn't. Your reasons after the fact fall back onto your own habits as explained how you believe you're obvtown when you're obvtown. My own thoughts is that you're null and I think self-aware players are the most dangerous type, so I can't really accept you being town until I see it.

i'm not saying one cannot have strong feelings this early - i've had strong (correct) feelings on people's alignments on page 1 before. (before someone cries how this contradicts my 173 - it doesn't. i deemed what lilith reacted to to not be enough to get a strong feeling. you may call me egocentric if you wish.) you pinged me tonally, yes, but i don't think you understand the strength of that ping - it was not that strong. by the time i changed my vote away from you onto dwlee, i was satisfied with what you posted. i got what i wanted, i moved on. why would you *expect* me to go further about that?

Did you miss my post where I said the heaven vote was only ~2% of the reason I was voting cakes?

- lilith

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pooky didn’t even have me in his initial readslist ftr. I don’t think of his read on me as “particularly strong”

- lilith

except he was willing to instantly jump to your defense as soon as i started saying i think you're scum, so...? i disagree?

like maybe your reasons are bad reasons

I won’t disagree that pooky could be scum but if scum!pooky came to my defense it was probably because he saw it as an easy defense

- lilith

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My slip detector turned on.

Please turn it back off

-S

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shrug ok keep voting me then

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I have permission from ss to talk about the thing

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Apologies to heaven as I’m about to get into some discussion of past games, but I promise it’s all relevant

quick summary of cakes’ and my games together over the past year or so: he’s rolled town in I think every game we’ve played together, I’ve rolled a mix of scum and town. We’ve also hydra-ed together (once as scum and twice as town iirc).

I would say it’s something of a running joke that I “fooled” him in my scumgames against him, and in the next game he always brings it up and says “lilith I won’t trust you anymore” or something to that effect. He didn’t even attempt to interact with me here and he didn’t bring up the fact that he also messaged me about hydra-ing for this game until like 20 posts ago, way after I started poking at/voting him. I would’ve expected cakes to bring up our most recent game together, in which I was scum and he was town, and which ended not very long ago; I would’ve expected him to enter with immediate paranoia about me — instead he straight up ignored me and ignored my vote until there was basically too large of a wagon on him to ignore. In his responses to me he is solely defensive and doesn’t question my motivations at all. His voting heaven made me vote him because that was the point where I started feeling like it felt “wrong” that he hadn’t expressed any paranoia on me or interacted with me at all.

- lilith

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probably but I also think everyone should be paranoid of you as a general rule

- lilith

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I literally just talked about, and I’ve been waiting to see if you would stop avoiding me

- lilith

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what about the period before I started pushing you....

- lilith

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i didn't. but considering you're not revealing the reason, it's quite literally no use to me. i cannot tell the difference between town!lilith having an actual tell vs. a scum!lilith going "hehe guys i have a tell on cakez, no i will not tell you~"

really?

I don't think she needs to out the tell for you to have an opinion on whether she believes she has a tell on cakes or not.

On this subject, I’m thinking Cakez is town because of how he reacted to the unspoken tell situation, I remember him in two prior cases involving such things, once as town and once as scum, and his reaction feels similar to but not exactly the same as his reaction as town in the prior situation.

I revealed the tell. do you have an opinion on it?

- lilith

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To elaborate: he voted heaven at a time when it seemed like multiple people were arguing with and starting to push heaven. It feels like a vote that’s meant to take advantage of that momentum rather than solve for heaven’s alignment.

i just don't really agree w/ this premise because i don't really think it's falsifiable - what does towncakez do in this situation that wants to push a scumread?

-b

I’m pretty sure we should just wait until you’re done catching up to discuss because I talk about my cakes read a lot more in recent pages. please let me know what your thoughts are once you’re caught up

- lilith

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I have permission from ss to talk about the thing

What thing?

cakes tell

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Lilith

thanks for the pagetop on my behalf!

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why are you asking this

- lilith

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I think he just isnt in a very paranoia-y vibe today
If he were he'd be paranoid of me too imo. I dont think this is a lilith-specific thing and it doesnt bother me that he isnt paranoid

Bork we need to be better at snagging pagetops >.> we're not even on the board

Lilith do u have a read on us yet?

~ skitteR

no

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R u trying to read us?

~ skitteR

if you mean am I trying to read your posts to discern your alignment, then I'm always trying to read everyone

if you mean am I going to push you and draw out unproductive arguments to see how you react, I don't think I'm interested in trying that again as a method of reading you given that it led to me having to take a break from the game, so no. you're still a very important slot to read for me, I just don't think it's worth it to put either of us through that again. I'm still trying to figure out how to actually read you properly

- lilith

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why do you ask

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oh no

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if you mean am I going to push you and draw out unproductive arguments to see how you react, I don't think I'm interested in trying that again as a method of reading you given that it led to me having to take a break from the game, so no. you're still a very important slot to read for me, I just don't think it's worth it to put either of us through that again. I'm still trying to figure out how to actually read you properly

Sorry >.>

Fwiw in this game i'd recommend reading bork, i would imagine he's a lot easier for most people to read than i am idk

I was kinda asking cuz you felt idk standoffish? Prickly? Not sure what the right word was

~ skitteR

had a bad weekend, I assume that's probably the cause

- lilith

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whenever cakez posted things, i thought the post sounds like something i would scumread. yet in my heart i do not scumread cakez.

This is just... how I identify town-Cakez. The more blatantly scummier he sounds, the more likely he is to be town.

I haven't played against scum-him in a

very

long time (I don't think?), but this method has worked for me so far. (And it would have worked in that game where he was scum, though I didn't apply it then and actually horribly misread him. That was kinda what led me to discover this.)

-S

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Also if Lilith is scum here she could just keep the tell private and wag it around in my face to piss me off

Meh, I wouldn't have let her do this. I hate it when people do that, and it probably wouldn't work besides.

-S

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and i didn't want lilith to out the tell just so i can see whether she's telling the truth or not (i suspected she had *something*, regardless her alignment), i mostly wanted to hear the tell so i can judge for myself how likely it is to make cakez scum.

This is fair. I only initially told her to keep it secret because I wanted to see if Cakez would make any kind of reachout or comment like the one she was expecting. Once we kinda became the focus of the game there was no reason to keep hiding it.

-S

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Also if Lilith is scum here she could just keep the tell private and wag it around in my face to piss me off

Meh, I wouldn't have let her do this. I hate it when people do that, and it probably wouldn't work besides.

-S

I wanted to talk about it 24 hours ago!

- lilith

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Penguin i'm not entirely sure what you're objecting to here
I'm not appealing to meta, i'm merely pointing out that if people have a hard time reading me they *dont have to* to sort our slot, there's am easier way to go abt it (i.e. reading bork), which i dont think is a hot take really

I dont know why you think i'm 'appealing to meta', if anything i'm doing the opposite

~ skitter

I have never actually read bork

- lilith

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@Lilith: Not a word of gratitude for granting you a PAGETOP???

no

no, but you saw how last game went when i unveiled my main

-b

p-edit @lilith

okay

that doesn't mean I'm going to trust other people's reads of you. I'll still have to figure out how to read you for myself.

Almost50's posts almost make too much sense that he might be evil lol

"too towny to be town"........ that's a new one

- lilith

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@gamma

i didn't. but considering you're not revealing the reason, it's quite literally no use to me. i cannot tell the difference between town!lilith having an actual tell vs. a scum!lilith going "hehe guys i have a tell on cakez, no i will not tell you~"

really?

I don't think she needs to out the tell for you to have an opinion on whether she believes she has a tell on cakes or not.

On this subject, I’m thinking Cakez is town because of how he reacted to the unspoken tell situation, I remember him in two prior cases involving such things, once as town and once as scum, and his reaction feels similar to but not exactly the same as his reaction as town in the prior situation.

I revealed the tell. do you have an opinion on it?

- lilith

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Q: Am I allowed to live in my own world under my own dome for a few seconds?? Cuz if I was I'd bet the game on the Mafia being of 3 members, and my solve would be precisely Gamma/Kerset/Heaven

Gamma comes in pushing a very "strange" meta-driven case on me (forgive me for calling it a case), and Kerset hops on it. Gamma backs off, Kerset falls back into the shadows, and Heaven takes on the spearhead position with yet another inexplicable "case".

My point is SCUM!GAMMA would be afraid of me. He tries to push me in hopes I'd react in a way that could be taken advantage of. Kerset sneaks in to aid him (knowing the reason behind this behaviour from their PT), but since I didn't react in a way that would justify Gamma's push on me he walks it back, but still wants me out so Heaven now can lead the campaign under the guise they don't know me (or anyone else) so cannot be blamed for taking this stance.

Well, I've got news for you: I ain't going down today, so lay off and try another approach.

Now I can go out of my dome and realize the whole world doesn't actually revolve around me, but not before I posted this to refer to in post-game.

Here we go!
Yeah I think A50 is towntelling a bit with this
Question for the monkey: Who's mafia in the case of a 2 mafia team?

what do you mean by "towntelling"?

- lilith

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idk what that means because I'm in a hydra and we're winning

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The way you all are just constantly using meta here is making the game extremely hard for me to follow or get anything out of.

"too towny to be town"........ that's a new one

- lilith

Almost50's posts almost make too much sense that he might be evil lol

It doesn't make sense at all and that's why I'm questioning myself here.

Y'all have to understand what happened in Noughts and Crosses to get it, but it was mostly tongue-in-cheek anyway.

isn't this a bit hypocritical

- lilith

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had to go back to reference the specific post

Apologies to heaven as I’m about to get into some discussion of past games, but I promise it’s all relevant

quick summary of cakes’ and my games together over the past year or so: he’s rolled town in I think every game we’ve played together, I’ve rolled a mix of scum and town. We’ve also hydra-ed together (once as scum and twice as town iirc).

I would say it’s something of a running joke that I “fooled” him in my scumgames against him, and in the next game he always brings it up and says “lilith I won’t trust you anymore” or something to that effect. He didn’t even attempt to interact with me here and he didn’t bring up the fact that he also messaged me about hydra-ing for this game until like 20 posts ago, way after I started poking at/voting him. I would’ve expected cakes to bring up our most recent game together, in which I was scum and he was town, and which ended not very long ago; I would’ve expected him to enter with immediate paranoia about me — instead he straight up ignored me and ignored my vote until there was basically too large of a wagon on him to ignore. In his responses to me he is solely defensive and doesn’t question my motivations at all. His voting heaven made me vote him because that was the point where I started feeling like it felt “wrong” that he hadn’t expressed any paranoia on me or interacted with me at all.

- lilith

I feel like I get the sort of mindset behind the sort of opening you expected, and via that I'm thinking it could have to do with Cake being otherwise occupied when doing his entrance
to explain another way, I tend to like doing RVS entrances that go off past meta with someone in the game. The issue is, I pretty much only get one chance to use any one entrance, so I might decide I want to use something else in a case where I could have used a meta joke. As such, I'm wondering whether there was something on Cakez's mind that impacted his willingness to open with the "I'm not trusting lilith" line
Plus, his explanation of already kinda TRing you maybe makes sense, even though the timeline is off? My concern is why not make the jokey entrance anyway?

cakes made the first post of the game, I'm not sure what else you think would have been on his mind at that point

it was a naked vote on dwlee, so I also am very skeptical that this was supposed to be some kind of planned entrance that overshadowed his usual MO of joking with me

- lilith

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what do you think cakes was townreading me for in the early game (before I brought up why I was voting him)?

- lilith

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What thing?

You know...

the thing.

(This was referring to 231, which lilith had previously alluded to in 209 by saying I didn't want her to share it yet.)

-S

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iirc you were in Xenoblade 2, is that the game you're talking about as Cakez's scum game?

I was not in Xenoblade 2. The game I'm referring to is this one... which was over five years ago.

-S

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in other news, i am still not townreading limit. like, i feel like town!lilith should be obvtown when town, and i am still not feeling it here? like i know yesterday i unvoted them after discussion, but having slept on it i'm not *feeling* it. like, i couldn't point at a single thing and say "this is scummy", it just feels like overall she's struggling to replicate her usual town-self?

?????? ok vote me again then

it was a naked vote on dwlee, so I also am very skeptical that this was supposed to be some kind of planned entrance that overshadowed his usual MO of joking with me

this reminds me of something - in a different game, i was playing with a person who i usually always vote and joke around with in rvs. that game, my entrance was a naked vote on another person rather than the usual rvs-joke-vote. later on, we started scumreading each other, and one of his points was that i didn't do my usual rvs-joke. we were both town. so like, i feel like there shouldn't be too much weight put on someone's entrance like this?

Do you think it is possible that cakes was avoiding interacting with me, maybe hoping that I wouldn’t pay that much attention to him? The lack of interaction in rvs is only one part of that. The lack of response to my vote is a second part of that. When he finally did respond to me, his initial response was defensive (“I do x thing”) and didn’t question my motivation. Then his answer about not finding me suspicious and therefore responding only defensively feels like he made it up after the fact to explain why he hadn’t been treating me with paranoia. Can you give thoughts on all of that instead of one post I made with the specific purpose of picking gamma’s argument apart?

- lilith

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confused and frustrated, sure. Where exactly am I being angry? I am legitimately doing my best to not lash out at people in games.

- lilith

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“trying to replicate townself” inherently implies someone is scum, no?

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ss and i both think you’re town

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at this point my posts and explanations are not to push you but to try to get you to the same point I am or to a point where you understand my thought process. I promise “Can you read all of that...” was not snarky but was an actual question

- lilith

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oops sorry ss

he didn’t really mention why, but part of the reason he said it was ok for me to out the tell on cakes was because he wanted to get your thoughts on it and see if that’s why you felt like my interactions with cakes felt fishy

- lilith

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on my part, I felt like datisi leading up to his initial vote on me felt ballsy which I wasn’t really expecting from scum!datisi

It’s not a firm read, I don’t really have any “solid” townreads

- lilith

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s_s? am i pulling things out of my ass, or am i correct in thinking that he usually doesn't have reads this early? why does he townread me?

I don't force reads, and I generally don't have scumreads early, but I can have early townreads.

I don't think scum-you posts this:

in other news: i'm reading interactions between lilith/cakez/pooky as Wrong.

unless you're partners with Cakez or Pooky.

-S

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There's not really much to elaborate on. That would be quite a group to call out as looking sketchy, when you're scum and know that none of them are in fact sketchy, and you could just pick a single target to focus on (and Cakez seems likely to be the easiest target of the three).

-S

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oh yeah I saw datisi's question before I went to sleep and I knew I'd forget it in the morning lol.

I haven't really seen anything from Cakez that makes me feel that he's town. I don't think my method really leads me to a directly scum conclusion on him; it's more if I never see him acting town then eventually I'd start to think he's scum. But, I'm willing to defer to lilith, at least for now, because her idea is interesting.

-S

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I'm going through the last game and I do see:

but basically I'm waiting on Lilith to give me some of the usual town pings and I have not gotten any so far so they are sitting in don't like until I see what I want to see

So I do think the argument does have some merit.

I guess my point was I don't necessarily care about the absence of that in a bubble - I care more about the fact that he came back w/ "oh yeah it's cause I was townreading you for pushing me" rather than just "I hadn't gotten there" which would've been ok

-b

Yeah this comment came on page 12 Lilith seems to be expecting me to have posted something like on page 1 or 2

You were clearly wary of me starting from your first post in deja vu:

Spoiler: not a quote from this game

VOTE: venus fly trap
Cursed hydra

VOTE: venus fly trap
Cursed hydra

(◕‸ ◕✿) why cursed?!

because you always snow me...
and skitter has been having a tough run lately

tbh I'm kind of thinking scum!nacho is getting his buddy NM out of the way so that he can direct a nightkill onto a townie of his choice rather than only being able to kill a miselim-able townie during the day.

- lilith

I think Nacho's play has been bizarre but I don't think this is in the realm of possiblity.

I like the vote on L&G and am going to go there too; mostly just cause I wanna be somewhere, iso is pretty vapid, and the phrasing of 109 just irks me vs a more reasonable "who are you scumreading atm"

I agree with this as well.

Lilith has my favorite response to my push, notscience my least favorite. The scum motivation that Lilith presented makes more sense than what skitter did and it feels more like she's trying to figure me out whereas skitter it's more "what Nacho is doing is bad" versus "what Nacho is doing is likely to be coming from scum". With regards to notscience I don't understand why giving Not mafia space is important to start reading him and I don't like that he didn't try to read me or my push in any way.

Vote: notscience

this post doesn't make any sense to me

unless you can point to a concrete reason that you were already townreading me in this game by the time I voted you, which would explain why you didn’t feel the need to question my vote and then later responded to me with zero paranoia, I think this whole “townreading me for my push” is fake

- lilith

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Lilith is giving me Betrayal Flashbacks with her hardcore page top domination.

I’m just a pagetop master

- lilith

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current “solve” is something like cakes/pooky/gamma. current tier list goes something like:

gypyx





datisi
tiger, penguin
dwlee, a50, heaven

kerset, umlaut
pooky, gamma
cakes


- lilith

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boop

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I still don’t think this is town!cakes

- lilith

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Also I'm not sure why you have the impression I was TRing from page one bc that's not true. I didn't get that until you started prying at me. Before that I was just meh about it.

Given the historical entrances you’ve made in games we’ve played together, I assume that you would need to be townreading me in order to not express paranoia or wariness a la deja vu, guns & roses, probably zoey’s, probably legends, etc. If you weren’t townreading me by that point, then why didn’t you express paranoia?

- lilith

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Because it was like 12 hours into the game?

And you literally hadn't posted anything but RVS

How is this game different from deja vu?

Who do you think is scum?

- lilith

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hi gypyx! Thoughts on cakes and tiger?

- lilith

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@mods can we get a prod on kerset

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Maybe pagetop stealing mods can post current vcs.

Question: do y’all prefer when a mod goes back and fills in reserved VC posts or do y’all just like having current VCs

how is this relevant

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

probably mia due to rl for another day

- lilith

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I mean i'm on one but i'm still not sure cakez is scum so not really sure where you're positing i can/should switch to

Although now that i think abt it its less of a vanity, i think we're up to thre votes

if you townreading me, who I consider to be the most vocal of the people on cakes’ wagon, why not engage with me directly about this? are you trying to insinuate that his wagon is scum-driven?

feels a little bit like you’re also not engaging with me much

- lilith

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kerset is like a really meh wagon. what has kerset done that is actively scummy and worse than cakes?

- lilith

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and i'm not insinuating that the wagon is scum-driven so much that scum are not motivated to start other ones and are content with their current votes
that doesn't imply cakez voters are scum inherently

~ skitter

if you think cakes might be town then I’m not sure what else you could mean

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

I mean more that it feels like you’re avoiding me

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I’m not really satisfied with any of this but brain hurts too much to articulate why. tomorrow prob

- lilith

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what makes a kerset wagon better than a gamma or an umlaut wagon?

- lilith

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?

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you defending cakes felt kind of like you defending mc in panic room

- lilith

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if "wake up" is directed at me then my response would be that your ISO is full of fluff, little hunting, and weird half-defenses of cakes

- lilith

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VOTE: kerset

oooooh what changed

pedit ok let's talk tomorrow then, i'm not sure what part you're having trouble with

~ skitteR

something feels wrong. idk how to tell what it is or why

- lilith

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lilith

This gimmick feels really forced.

-S

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im still mad at SS for shooting me lol

look ok I still think you would have played differently if the mod hadn't told you you were bulletproof :X

-S

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Going to go for the moon logic award here: This is very +town

...go on

-S

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The Dynamic Duo has finally caught up to the Limit

It's literally just lilith lol

I actively avoid pagetops where I can, and she has way more posts than me so far anyway.

-S

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I'm not unvoting cakez until he towntells

I doubt this will happen while there's a wagon on him

-S

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

i feel like i just said it: scum are fine with their current votes, whereever they are (cakez, vanity) and are not incentivized to move them
that doesn't mean that cake voters are scum but rather that whereever scum are voting they're p content

this feels like almost a tautology... if scum (or anyone, really) were unhappy with their current vote, why wouldn't they move it?

-S

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plus I lowkey think kerset should have obvtowned by now if she is town

after like 18 posts?

-S

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I wasn't talking about cakes when you said "wake up," so what was that in response to?

- lilith

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oh I misread that as sarcasm

uh yeah that wasn't directed at you, it was a general question / mostly @ skitter

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i feel like i just said it: scum are fine with their current votes, whereever they are (cakez, vanity) and are not incentivized to move them
that doesn't mean that cake voters are scum but rather that whereever scum are voting they're p content

this feels like almost a tautology... if scum (or anyone, really) were unhappy with their current vote, why wouldn't they move it?

-S

Well my point is more going back another step: scum seem content with the cakez wagon (as evidenced by the fact that no votes are moving), so like why

~ skitteR

kerset got way more traction than cakes ever did. no one even really gave much credence to my case on cakes which I’m still inclined to believe makes cakes more likely to be scum.

thoughts on kerset’s recent posting?

- lilith

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lilith

This gimmick feels really forced.

-S

What a weird thing to comment on especially when you most likely don’t understand.

I think he was in the game where this started ftr

- lilith

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VOTE: Kerset
Kerset is just open chainsawing imo

who is kerset pushing and defending, and why do you think it’s partner-indicative?

- lilith

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https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... roficiency

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@skitter (and datisi) I honestly don’t know what it is. maybe partly it’s that I’m feeling frustrated that it seems like no one really took my cakes read seriously (out of the people I’m townreading at least), even though I felt like cakes never came up with a satisfactory response or made any particularly towny posts imo. I feel slightly better about it now but idk. I guess it’s somewhat on me for not being aggressive about engaging with people who disagreed but I also don’t really want to be aggressive as a playstyle anymore

- lilith

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okay but why do you think that’s partner-indicative? what do you think of tiger recently?

- lilith

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Another thing to be honest is that I feel like nobody cares for my opinion anyways, so I just haven't been giving them.

Say something controversial about person, who wasn't on the spotlight so far! Like 'lilith is scum, who tries to derail kerset wagon but had no problem with cakez'.

Spicy. how do you feel about me opposing your wagon?

- lilith

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I really have the strong feeling after catchup that scum are all over Kerset

Who are the scum on kerset’s wagon?

- lilith

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Cakez is really scummy here and I'm disappointed his wagon fell off. What's townie about someone who comes back and votes consensus wagon in the middle of an apparent catchup? Don't you care about your own thoughts and how they could change based on unknown information? Apparently not.

what consensus wagon? I voted A50 who has no votes and then Gamma who has two votes.
and I always place votes and stuff while catching up because it reflects my thoughts while reading

Gamma is where the wind is currently blowing, since several people are scumreading him and very few are townreading him

- lilith

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

I think skitter is +town for moving momentum away from the kerset wagon her slot started. unless the team is exactly cakes/kerset/tiger then she has no motivation to vote kerset as a counterwagon to cakes and then step off the gas when everyone seems to be joining

- lilith

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Cakez is really scummy here and I'm disappointed his wagon fell off. What's townie about someone who comes back and votes consensus wagon in the middle of an apparent catchup? Don't you care about your own thoughts and how they could change based on unknown information? Apparently not.

what consensus wagon? I voted A50 who has no votes and then Gamma who has two votes.
and I always place votes and stuff while catching up because it reflects my thoughts while reading

Gamma has huge momentum right now. It's pretty much a building counterwagon

What does this matter anyways? Your vote doesn't need to be justified to me, because if you think it's the right one I should be able to get that from your posts. I don't, I just see you vying for relevancy as you driveby numerous topics, eventually leading to a non-committal vote.

Where is the "huge momentum"? This is such a misrep and objectively false.
I responded because it's bullshit you're spewing and it needs to be called out.

I agree with heaven so don’t think it’s a misrep. What makes you say gamma is not a building counterwagon?

- lilith

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Cakez is really scummy here and I'm disappointed his wagon fell off. What's townie about someone who comes back and votes consensus wagon in the middle of an apparent catchup? Don't you care about your own thoughts and how they could change based on unknown information? Apparently not.

what consensus wagon? I voted A50 who has no votes and then Gamma who has two votes.
and I always place votes and stuff while catching up because it reflects my thoughts while reading

Gamma is where the wind is currently blowing, since several people are scumreading him and very few are townreading him

- lilith

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Multiple people have been talking about gamma since yesterday?

- lilith

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@kerset

Another thing to be honest is that I feel like nobody cares for my opinion anyways, so I just haven't been giving them.

Say something controversial about person, who wasn't on the spotlight so far! Like 'lilith is scum, who tries to derail kerset wagon but had no problem with cakez'.

Spicy. how do you feel about me opposing your wagon?

- lilith

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

@cakes

pooky had gamma in his pg5 solve
gamma was in my pg19 solve
umlaut is the only person to call gamma town in this game
datisi, skitter, and I have all at various points questioned him

I strongly disagree that gamma didn’t already have momentum going on him when you voted

- lilith

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

@kerset

Another thing to be honest is that I feel like nobody cares for my opinion anyways, so I just haven't been giving them.

Say something controversial about person, who wasn't on the spotlight so far! Like 'lilith is scum, who tries to derail kerset wagon but had no problem with cakez'.

Spicy. how do you feel about me opposing your wagon?

- lilith

so many posts per minute, i had to spam -submit- button

You might be unaware about it but there are only you, xHeavenx, Dwlee99 and borkjerfkin haven't played with me before. I think that the push on me is based on people knowledge about my meta and you are one of the people not aware about it. That is the reason why you question it. In fact there is general pattern that can be noticed.

okay I meant more like, do you think that’s alignment-indicative?

what’s the pattern?

- lilith

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

And then I post thoughts and stuff looking for help sorting my townreads like with Tig and it gets fucking ignored because everyone is just playing whack a cakez
Don't fucking blame me you wouldn't be able to do anything either

where did you ask for help with townreads?

it’s honestly felt like none of your posts have been meant to actually result in a conversation with anyone, so if that was your intent then please requote

- lilith

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

What a weird thing to comment on especially when you most likely don’t understand.

Well, wanna help me out then? From what I remember, you used the wind gag as a way to low-key canvass for votes on someone you scumread. I remember you using it multiple times and I believe it was fairly effective.

Here you're... doing a callback? Because you don't scumread us, or at least you don't want to vote us. So I don't understand why you're doing it, that is correct, and that makes me think that you're forcing yourself to do it for whatever reason. Maybe that's a valid reason-- forced doesn't mean scum.

-S

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Looking at pooky a little bit atm; I do like the way he brought up 360. I don't think it's something he had to do as scum here - I'm not really sure scum-pooky has any reason to really believe that I'm going to be so unelimable that he has to go a route where he's basically setting himself up to have to eventually townread me, especially considering I hadn't posted at all up until yesterday

That said I'm a little bit alarmed as to how hard he's going against cakez right now, it almost seems harder than lilith herself is and on some level I feel like explanations about confidence in lilith being town morphed into confidence in lilith being correct about cakez and I'd definitely like to untangle the two as far as where his cakez read is at

-b

ftr I'd expect this from town!pooky, using Warehouse 13 as an example

almost50 screwing around is how he towntells

+1 to this
he appears to be playing to that jokey meta here
iirc he was more serious in Tenet as scum

the fact Bork is posting content means Tig is prolly town too!

I think I'm going to have too many townreads this game

I'm not interested in Kerset. Feels like limbait and also the game has stalled around the two wagons on him and I which makes me think he's also town and scum are just happy with this gamestate.

ugh Tig has me conflicted. I like bork but it feels like skitter could be WKing me
:/

can you elab on this SS? do you think it makes Penguin scum? this wording is strange.

I really have the strong feeling after catchup that scum are all over Kerset

like he feels like such a scum-designated miselim

I don’t see anywhere where you asked for help or tried to engage with anyone else about these? so I’m not sure what you’re complaining about

- lilith

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

I think cakez/gamma is viable

Is gamma the type to stick his neck out to defend a buddy who's obviously going down and expect to get away with it?

I wouldn't have thought so.

-S

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

I think cakez/gamma is viable

Is gamma the type to stick his neck out to defend a buddy who's obviously going down and expect to get away with it?

I wouldn't have thought so.

-S

he did this in panic room defending murdercat (I referenced this earlier)

- lilith

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Heavenx's posts feel to me like those of a desperate townside player who is utterly convinced they are right

I vibe with this read

-S

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

@SS respond please

Was my response to Penguin not sufficient?

No, it does not make him scum. It just felt weird and out of place.

-S

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Hi Infinity

This may be the first game where I don't scumread you

-S

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

hi infinity

@skitter what do you think of kerset’s content today?

- lilith

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

oh i see i missed that

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

I’m scumreading gamma too

Can you explain how he’s different from panic room? because I made a comparison thinking he was similar

- lilith

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oh ffs

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infinity do you want to chat about anything with me before threadlock?

- lilith