Open 814: CultD3 CULT WINS

[osuka]

VOTE: osuka

:evil:

what the fuck did I DO?
VOTE: lemons

[osuka]

ego boop

(PS: scrolling on a 144hz display is so smooooooth tho)

honestly holy shit i bought a 144hz display a few months ago and for the first week i was having a blast just moving the cursor around lmao

[osuka]

@Mod: Is it possible to change the color of the text in the setup post? The green especially is impossible to read on a light background.

Done
~ Kori

you play on a light background?

this is a serial killer claim

[osuka]

RVS Breaker: My vote was serious. Discuss.

No it wasn't. At least not beyond the trivial "all votes are to some extent serious" sense of the phrase. If I'm wrong and you have a real reason you're welcome to share it instead of inviting us to play 20 Questions.

They read their Role PM but didn't confirm it until later.

i can confirm this is true. which of the following situations do you think is most probable:

1. i am a cultist who read my role PM, considered replacing out, and then decided to confirm
   
2. i am a VT who read my role PM, considered replacing out, and then decided to confirm
   
3. i am a TPR who read my role PM, considered replacing out, and then decided to confirm
   
4. regardless of what i rolled, i read my role PM and either forgot to or didn't have time to confirm it right away

#1

VOTE: lemonsVOTE: lemonsVOTE: lemonsVOTE: lemonsVOTE: lemonsVOTE: lemonsVOTE: lemonsVOTE: lemonsVOTE: lemons

[osuka]

okay why the fuck would someone /in to a cult game without understanding how the cult works

[osuka]

How Flea even know how many time exact player waste on reading role.

?????

[osuka]

UNVOTE:

didn’t realize he was e-1 (e-2 now), and clearly some of you fucks have your heads lodged up your respective rectums so i don’t trust you to not lolhammer

[osuka]

I expecting osuka softbus Lemons without any sane reasons, but fearing to actually push him over river because it's too much.

????????????????????????

i'm confident at least one of us is having a stroke this very second

[osuka]

Lemons can have townpoints for caring about the solve enough to check up on meta. Scum can do this too, but in my experience its a towny thing more often than not.

it's my experience that lemons just generally puts way too much effort into games

[osuka]

Anyone else is ??? and needs to do something.

You could start by answering my post addressed to you!

Am lowkey sus of this slot - posts in the thread to refute criticism but doesn't add anything about the wider game or ask any new questions.

this is a dogshit post

he's putting pressure on a slot that didn't answer his question and that is objectively a good thing

[osuka]

before i start catching up i just want to say that this dogshit pseudo-meta talk about whether or not whoever confirmed whatever the fuck role PM before or after they saw a role or didn't or whatever else is among the dumbest, most brain dead, shit-tier fucking dumpster fire conversation i have ever seen in my life

if you gave me a fucking lobotomy i'd lose less brain cells than i did reading through that trash

[osuka]

Anyone else is ??? and needs to do something.

You could start by answering my post addressed to you!

Am lowkey sus of this slot - posts in the thread to refute criticism but doesn't add anything about the wider game or ask any new questions.

this is a dogshit post

he's putting pressure on a slot that didn't answer his question and that is objectively a good thing

Pipe down - yes, there's nothing wrong with following up on a question (in fact, it's actually towny), but when that is literally all the slot had done at that point it feels like hiding in plain sight

this is contradictory

a slot cannot by definition _only_ follow up to a question they asked, because they can't follow up to a question they didn't ask. it follows, then, that they asked a question, which is something

why are you misrepresenting the slot's contributions?

[osuka]

osuka tone is towny to me by meta. I've only played games with him as scum so not totally sure.

???????????

how could the two ever possibly go together?

[osuka]

before i start catching up i just want to say that this dogshit pseudo-meta talk about whether or not whoever confirmed whatever the fuck role PM before or after they saw a role or didn't or whatever else is among the dumbest, most brain dead, shit-tier fucking dumpster fire conversation i have ever seen in my life

if you gave me a fucking lobotomy i'd lose less brain cells than i did reading through that trash

Let's start here with a side note. Can we tone the explicit/aggressive language down a bit please? It's supposed to be a game :)

i'll tone it down when people start posting more intelligently

[osuka]

After some deliberation

VOTE: osuka

I'm pretty wary of

MM

Major Minor and could happily vote there after they tried to shade me hard for singling them out and then had to invent some less-active slots when called out on their accusation.

That being said, Osuka's 152 just feels very slimy and more likely to have been made in bad faith

--pedit lol Flea ref setup A

--pedit I totally hadn't twigged about the whole MM thing. Post updated.

so your case on me is 152? the post where i nudged you?

if the wiki ever needs an example of omgus, feel free to point here

[osuka]

How you tell apart simple cultist from cultist-cop?

Or do converted remain their powerrole and flip as some "Cult Cop"? I think it simple "Cultist".

You don't which is why we need the flip.

Cultist Cop claims every time because their wincon requires survival.

Town cop doesn't because infomation is vital, come clean after the hammer if you can

i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and ask you to explain

your posts have been largely sensible and this is unusually moronic so i'm somewhat confident i'm just misunderstanding

[osuka]

There are other slots who had done less (and have still done less) and yet you're not applying the same scrutiny to them yet. Strange.

This really felt like you were trying to shade me here and accuse me of being disingenuous. Yet, when I replied to you in near real time, there was a significant pause before then you came up with 2 slots that I would argue had been notably more active than you at that point in the game and the backup mod.

If I genuinely felt like another player was singling me out, I would call them out based on their behaviours, but here it feels like you had to retrospectively find a justification for your accusation against me when I called you out on it.

...am I now being pushed because I had to step away from my computer for more than 10 minutes? Like, legitimately? Because I didn't respond to you 5 minutes after you responded to me?

You'd made a couple of posts in quick succession so were clearly online. I then replied within 4 minutes but it took you 40 minutes to respond when I pushed you for actual examples. Of course, it could have just been unfortunate timing, I can't rule that out, but I hope you can see why it is sus.

I guess the deeper question is this:

Did you have specific slots in mind at the time when you shaded me for singling you out?

this is completely unrelated to me but piss off with the activity meta? people have lives and i can't tell you how often i pop in for one or two quick posts and fuck off or get distracted/caught up in something in the middle of posting

all of that is nai and it's outside the scope of the game. nobody should have to justify their active hours or any of that

[osuka]

Eugh so town remains infoless, I was assuming flips as "Cult Tracker" and stuff.

Hmm... ok I need ot think on this.

You don't.

If you are PR, you should claim before dying. Either you die anyway, but point who you used ability on and save town some headache, or survive and actually help town (if you can't count, we have 3 myslynches. And lynching of common cultist COUNTS as Myslynch for that purpose. Actually it's harder to count, but you get idea, killing Cop is waste regardless if he is real or converted, and quickens cult win).


Also we could consider "Unrecruitable" gambit, where all PRs claim Unrecruitable if forced.
Then we can protect PRs via that and not to lose so much from if there's indeed Unrecruitable (cult could waste convert on them).
So if you are PR, you can consider claim Unrecruitable regardless of real one.

this is your most intelligent post by an order of magnitude

keep it up

[osuka]

@raya talk to me: why are you scumreading t3? because he hard lurks and only posts shit one liners? he does that every game

[osuka]

I don't mind your rants, osuka, I find them hilarious tbh

glad to be of service

[osuka]

i barely have one

where did i defend you

[osuka]

@mod: vla for ~36 hours from now

sorry folks

V/LA noted.
~ Kori

[osuka]

Sadly i could't fight my VI nature and protect self, so:

Spoiler:

I am Town PR. I strongly believe we are toast without CL dead fast anyway. If you want exact role, then go ahead and ask. If other PR will claim, it would be sweet.

????????????

[osuka]

Let me stick down a couple of general thoughts and then I'll stop spamming the thread for a bit.

1.) I still think that Osuka has been the slot who has been the most disingenuous in terms of misconstruing events and pushing in bad faith (eg their attempt to discredit/reduce my point against them to OMGUS). I'm keen to dig into this once they are back from VLA as I reckon we have a good chance of finding scum here.

2.) Having just returned from V/LA myself, I'm going to be a massive hypocrite and suggest that we try and inject some energy back into this game. With 6 days or so to deadline, leaving things to the last minute increases the chance of a miscalculation and just plays into scum's hands IMO. Of note, Major and Rayna both promised content over the weekend, so it will be good to hear from those slots soon.

hit me with any questions you have, i'll be back on later after work to respond

[osuka]

6 days to go,

Osuka or Major minor are the wagons. Pick one, and lets have it.

Both slots are low-content and evasive (to the point of offensively so in Osukas case). I'll be keeping an eye whoever isn't eliminated of the two.

Enchant, I am disappointed in you. You knw you're getting culted tonight, right?

try having a crack at showing everyone where i was evasive. i'll be waiting

[osuka]

I hope this didn't jeopardize whole game and you are not pissed.

Either way, i changed my mind. Don't claim. I think it's already good other PR know who is me.

dogshit post from a player many people seem to expect a lot out of

[osuka]

While I wait for Osuka to get back to me

what do you want me to get back to you about

[osuka]

also i cannot cc

[osuka]

VOTE: T3

Fuck it. I don't want to crossvote Osuka and I would prefer if you guys didn't eliminate town D1.

what do you mean crossvote

[osuka]

ESPECIALLY if Flea is town.

Flea, if you're town, you're pushing on town here. Think about that for a moment and how that might explain some of the gamestate. With you doing the heavy lifting for scum to push people onto a miselimination onto me, they can sorta just... blend in. What other active things have been happening?

This isn't a long game, just 16 pages. I'd encourage people to reread and see the dominant narrative. It has solely centered around me from the start of this game, pretty much -- one of the first real reads expressed after Flea pushed us out of RVS was that people were sus of me for various reasons, and a majority of the dialogue has continued to be about that -- which means scum really don't want to shake up the narrative too much, because from their perspective, they had a townie in the spotlight (me) while I pushed for a wagon on a town PR (Enchant). The goal should be to find who was specifically trying not to rock the boat and seemed content to let the status quo stay as it is (Umlaut, ???).

this is a pretty shit push but i think flea is cult so i'm really not sure how to feel

[osuka]

shit response***

[osuka]

ESPECIALLY if Flea is town.

Flea, if you're town, you're pushing on town here. Think about that for a moment and how that might explain some of the gamestate. With you doing the heavy lifting for scum to push people onto a miselimination onto me, they can sorta just... blend in. What other active things have been happening?

Thank you for your confession.
The gamestate is still fairly decent, the HEAVY resistance to your elimination despite few people expressing an opinion on you tells me there's either scum defending you, or you are scum. Osuka has been defending you, and I'm happy enough in my read on you that you are todays elimination, and the only one in my mind.

I will say this, you have earned a lot of respect from me for your play if you're scum. You've done a good job at adjusting the narratives around you, and I'm pretty sure you're wishing there was a factional kill.
Converting me would be obvious, besides there's the PR to take care of. :)

Question for me is your buddy, Osuka, T3 or Umlaut.

This isn't a long game, just 16 pages. I'd encourage people to reread and see the dominant narrative. It has solely centered around me from the start of this game, pretty much -- one of the first real reads expressed after Flea pushed us out of RVS was that people were sus of me for various reasons, and a majority of the dialogue has continued to be about that -- which means scum really don't want to shake up the narrative too much, because from their perspective, they had a townie in the spotlight (me) while I pushed for a wagon on a town PR (Enchant). The goal should be to find who was specifically trying not to rock the boat and seemed content to let the status quo stay as it is (Umlaut, ???).

Oof the ego is real. You pushed for a wagon on Enchant, who was promptly run up to E-1 with much much less resistance.

I think you picked up the same hints from Enchant as I did, and your push on them tells me you're scum motivated.

where have i been defending that slot? enlighten me, i would love to see you try

[osuka]

I guess we should really start talking in terms of PoEs, given how close we are getting to deadline.

I still think we should be flipping osuka rn. Their ISO highlights include bending my words to try and push me (eg 152), trying to deflect my case on them as OMGUS rather than actually work through it (233), followed by acting like they were super open to questions (315), but then stalling and disappearing when I actually asked questions. I'd genuinely encourage people to go and look back at their ISO (it's not long) and make their own minds up.

Failing that, I'd settle for a compromise elim on T3 or Raya. I don't think they are scum together, but I reckon there is a decent chance that 1 of the 2 could be scum, especially with their recent posting.

I also need to go and look back at the Flea/Major interactions - Major's weird interaction with me where they said I singled them out unfairly but then struggled to back it up was scummy, but their posts otherwise have felt very towny, so I need to look back over why Flea is pushing them and whether it looks like it is in good faith or not.

yeah im sorry about my activity, i have been extremely busy with work. just yesterday, i was working until 3 am my time

that said, ive already addressed everything else youve mentioned here and i won't be doing it again because it's mostly dogshit and i can't be bothered to keep repeating myself

[osuka]

yeah im sorry about my activity, i have been extremely busy with work. just yesterday, i was working until 3 am my time

that said, ive already addressed everything else youve mentioned here and i won't be doing it again because it's mostly dogshit and i can't be bothered to keep repeating myself

Yet again you try to trivialise my points against you by calling it dogshit rather than arguing against it logically. You have 100% not addressed the questions I pointed your way (I guess your insinuation that flea is cult is a partial answer to the one about your reads, but certainly not a comprehensive one) so why act like you were happy to work with me and answer my questions if you're just going to try and trivialise them and bat them away?

you asked me loaded questions. i refuse to answer "why are you misrepresenting my points" when i didn't actually do that

if you want to ask some good faith questions and start from the start, i can do that

[osuka]

Like if you think Flea is scum then why aren't you voting them, and what other reads do you have on the rest of the plist?

i'm not sure how i feel about you in particular at first. you strike me as towny but there's something about it that's offputting and i can't really put my finger on it. i do believe everything you've done so far is within your scum range

umlaut kind of screams town atm
enchant has absolutely braindead takes but i'm not entirely sure that's necessarily ai. willing to exec this slot
t3 sort of doesn't do shit but that's signature t3 and as far as i can tell, it's nai. still willing to exec this slot because he's not gonna do shit all game

i dont have excellent reads because the game stalled and ive been extremely busy so i'm very sorry about my own activity (even if i cant really do anything about everyone else's). i'll be here to talk to you again when you come back

[osuka]

Two people think I'm scum but won't vote me, both are slots that are unfamiliar with me and it shows xD

Osuka, why react to my calling out of your weird defences of Major Minor but not theirs? Care to actually contribute to the game?

WHERE are my "weird defences" of major minor? you have yet to point any of them out - i just showed that you were pulling that straight out of your ass

[osuka]

Loving the continued attempts on my ego.
What is you read on Osuka, exactly?

They're not attempts, they're correct reads on your ego.

I read potential scum AND town motivation behind Osuka's full throated defense of me earlier in the day -- and his recent "What I didn't defend MajMin, where'd I do that" feels scummy. I read that situation as a potential one where he saw an opportunity to white knight me at the start of the day for +town points later, but didn't realize I'd be a sinking ship, and is now trying to distance himself before he gets dragged down with me. That would indicate scum motivation.

you all seem to be under the impression that i defended your slot. that was never my intention and in all honesty, i don't have a good read on you

my point was to call out a push that someone found in a fucking dumpster and thought it would be nice to post. i didn't do it because i think you're town, i did it because the push is garbage and everyone was losing brain cells because of it

[osuka]

for the record, major is not my favorite exec today but i will compromise on it if necessary

[osuka]

Osuka, who you suspect expect for me and T3

when did i say i suspected t3?

[osuka]

also, have you not been reading the thread? when did i say i suspected you? i do, but i dont recall ever having said that

[osuka]

you asked me loaded questions. i refuse to answer "why are you misrepresenting my points" when i didn't actually do that

if you want to ask some good faith questions and start from the start, i can do that

You portraying my push on you as being OMGUS is 100% a misrep of the argument I was making about why your 152 is scummy, so you've got some nerve trying to shade me over bad faith here when you've spent the game trying to discredit me.

Furthermore, the other question I originally asked was about what your reads were, which you then go on to explain (in response to a later, similar, question from me), so this doesn't even make sense

your original argument could very well not have been made in bad faith but it was definitely at least bad logic. i don't have you as lockscum or anything but that was a shit push

[osuka]

Like just look at Osuka's SRs. His willingness to exec T3 is largely on policy grounds, his take on me is "could be towny but feels scummy too" and he still hasn't voted Flea, who he is allgedly SRing, or explained why he isn't

i havent voted flea because i have no idea what the vc is at and i think at least one slot is e-1

[osuka]

Like if you think Flea is scum then why aren't you voting them, and what other reads do you have on the rest of the plist?

i'm not sure how i feel about you in particular at first. you strike me as towny but there's something about it that's offputting and i can't really put my finger on it. i do believe everything you've done so far is within your scum range

umlaut kind of screams town atm
enchant has absolutely braindead takes but i'm not entirely sure that's necessarily ai. willing to exec this slot
t3 sort of doesn't do shit but that's signature t3 and as far as i can tell, it's nai. still willing to exec this slot because he's not gonna do shit all game

i dont have excellent reads because the game stalled and ive been extremely busy so i'm very sorry about my own activity (even if i cant really do anything about everyone else's). i'll be here to talk to you again when you come back

Here.

If you willing to execute someone, then you suspect them. Seems logically?

no

have you ever heard of a policy lynch? more relevantly, have you ever heard of a compromise?

[osuka]

Hold up, how do you know the cult leader is a him unless you know who the cult leader is?@Enchant

this is a reach of biblical proportions

[osuka]

If cop outs with an innocent and we ignore Enchant we get a pool of 5. Assuming I'm not the inno that leaves 4 people, at least 2 of which are cult.

This only makes sense from your POV lol - we don't know that you are town

?????

[osuka]

Yeah I could go for Osuka too. They're quite aggressive but really haven't said much. Only really gave clear reads when asked

i've said this several times on site but ill say it again: it's not my job to dump my brain on thread. if you want to know something i haven't voluntarily publicized and you don't ask, that's your own problem and your own fault

[osuka]

What about that Osuka person

why do you scumread me?

[osuka]

it's sort of clear none of you can read me so that's pretty funny because ive played with several people here

[osuka]

That post seriously makes me want to vote Osuka more than anything Osuka himself has posted.

what post

[osuka]

I mean if cult leader no actioned then maybe it's still Osuka

if i were cl why the fuck would i no action?

[osuka]

so you're saying you think flea and i are both cult?

[osuka]

What are the chances osuka flaked anddidn't do an action?

it takes five seconds and zero effort to submit a night action

if i were cl, which i'm not, and if i hadn't submitted a night action, which doesn't apply, i can assure you it wouldve been intentional

[osuka]

Would be really good to hear from Osuka rn on recent developments and see where is vote is at

i dont wanna vote right now because i dont know what the vc is at since i havent finished catching up, but i will state for the record that i'm liking the raya exec today

i would also like to get enchant as i do think hes cult but i doubt he's CL, so i'm not sure what the correct course of action is here. first cult game on ms

[osuka]

alright finished catching up

enchant keeps writing the braindead takes. everything that he's said over the course of the past 2 pages is either obvious or logically questionable
flea could just be gambiting and actually be cult because cult has setup info, but i dont really know why of all people i would be the clear. i don't think there's a lot of reason for me to question this slot right now
mark is sort of screaming town atm so i'm fine with leaving that slot alone for the time being

VOTE: raya
this is e-1

[osuka]

prodge until later tonight because i have to work late :))))))

[osuka]

Yes voting with almost guaranteed cult member Enchant is sure to work.

no but actually this is an excellent point

UNVOTE:

[osuka]

VOTE: Dwlee

I think you're CL.

And I'll pull up why later.

?????

[osuka]

some people have brought up that raya is probably not CL so i think i may be officially against a raya exec today

that said, i think i have to reread some things and figure out who the fuck actually is CL because right now i dont really have a good idea. raya CL only exists if enchant is not culted, which i kind of doubt. waiting on flea's case on dwlee because that might be interesting in sorting both of them

[osuka]

UNVOTE:

I'm stumped rn, not gona lie. I reckon we ought to be able to work out a fair bit from the Raya wagon tho if we think through it logically

i agree and i think i can trust you to a degree

what are you thinking

[osuka]

UNVOTE:

I'm stumped rn, not gona lie. I reckon we ought to be able to work out a fair bit from the Raya wagon tho if we think through it logically

i agree and i think i can trust you to a degree

what are you thinking

I honestly reckon at this point its worth trying to come up with the various scenarios, and then making an educated guess based on what is most likely

Scenario A: Raya is CL
-If we assume that Cult minions don't bus then cult minions must lie outside wagon ie within Flea/Umlaut/Dwlee
-So at least one of Umlaut or Dwlee would have to have been an original minion in this scenario
-Flea makes sense as a recruit target if cult were able to spot the crumbs, but Umlaut/Dwlee have both felt towny

Scenario B: Raya is not CL and cult has 3 members
-Optimum play here for the cult would be to hammer Raya as even if she is cult minion she can be replaced
-So lack of hammer would imply that all cult were already on the wagon and thus couldn't hammer, so cult from everyone else's POV would like within me/T3/Enchant/Osuka
-BUT enchant can't be CL and Osuka can't be CL in this particular scenario as in this scenario cult recruited last night and Flea isn't culted.
-So this scenario only makes sense from your point of view if CL is me or T3
-Also, it would be likely that Raya is town and not cult at all, as if she was minion she could self-hammer

Scenario C: Raya is not CL and cult has 2 members
-Tbqh I'd not really considered that the cult might only have 2 due to me being protected last night, mainly because that only works if the cult targeted me over Enchant, a claimed PR
-In this scenario, lack of hammer implies that either:
--Raya is minion and cult didn't want her to get hammered. This would probably (but not certainly) mean the other cult would be off-wagon
--Raya is town and both cult were on the wagon and thus couldn't hammer ie 2 of me/Osuka/T3/Enchant are cult

i think the odds of raya being CL are slim, because the odds of 1[umlaut, dwlee] + flea is unlikely. scenario 2 makes the most sense, but i cant imagine either you or t3 being cl.

i'm confused

[osuka]

i cant imagine that raya can be cl if enchant is cult. why would he bus raya so early? i even find it hard to imagine that both are cult as opposed to 1 or 0 of them

[osuka]

so ive been thinking ang heres a thought: to anyone who has more cult setup experience on MS, is it generally worth to get rid of a non CL cultist, or do we wanna try and find CL?

[osuka]

because i'm thinking raya is probably cult, but i dont think that slot flips CL. if we wanna go ahead with compromising on what is very likely to be a cultist instead of hunting for CL, i can be on board with that

[osuka]

VOTE: Raya

I was leaning this way anyways, but Flea's recent scumminess puts Raya's equity as CL through the roof

so are you saying enchant isn’t culted?