Open 806: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[Datisi]

like, as scum there's he no sorting. his posts reek of "come on, attack me, i will fucking murder you". he's still trying to probe and understand like ashjkk<dgsgsufgiu

[Datisi]

also: gypyx has been around. i see he's literally on site *right now*
why hasn't he posted in like a week again?

~ skitter

do you think / have experience that gypyx is more likely to lurk as scum?

[Datisi]

aaaand my sandwiches burned while i was busy typing here i hope y'all are happy

[Datisi]

What type of sandwich

cheese and pancetta

it's still edible at the very least

[Datisi]

wh are you voting sechyd, pp?

[Datisi]

how about instead of deadsheeping you try

alivesheeping

[Datisi]

i am Busy with Other Things so lowkey prodge (but i'm guessing i wouldn't have much to say on this game anyway)

dats i also really don't like that you're still defending ico here

does this "don't like" mean "i think you're scum together"?

like, as scum there's he no sorting. his posts reek of "come on, attack me, i will fucking murder you".

he's still trying to probe and understand like ashjkk<dgsgsufgiu

uh that's kinda what he's doing?

i don't think he is. 3496-3499 read much more sincere to me than his posts in 2180. i can try to dig them out tomorrow but i just get the vibe that he is actually trying to understand you here. his posts feel more open-ended, they feel frustrated-y rather than bait-y.

like idk. i also feel so strongly about the associates that i do think they're clearing. i know i keep talking about 2180 but it's the freshest scum!ico exp i have so whatever. i never suspected peta in that game, he was constantly in my low-to-mid town. however, after ico became my number one pick for scum, peta instantly became my number two pick. based on absolutely nothing other than me going through ico's iso and thinking how aligned they looked.

now i know this can be handwaved because "dats/ico scumpair ggez" but like idek anymore. is there any other reasons you have suspicion on me that's not me defending your no1 scumread?

do you think / have experience that gypyx is more likely to lurk as scum?

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=84991
it's literally his mo as scum ....

i was wondering if you had town experience as well. ik he lurks as scum (seen it in pyp) but i have a vague memory of him not being that active in the towngame i saw him in either.

i think i hear birds outside that's lovely i'm gonna go pass out

[Datisi]

so i did hear birds, huh.

i am too much of a coward as i am not as certain of them being scum as i let on. sorry pp.

[Datisi]

it's ok, it was salvageable and still very good.

[Datisi]

He literally went, day2: you're scumreading me???? You must be scum!!!!!!
That's literally what yoy're describing his scumgame as in the bolded above

bleh, i didn't get a ping on it being that way at the time, so rn i can't even recall the posts, so this is a note to look at that tomorrow

and sorry for being unclear, my "lurked as scum in pyp" comment was about gypyx (a more recent run of pyp). like ik he lurks as scum. i'm asking if you have any town exp where he lurked like that (or any town exp i guess)

[Datisi]

@skitt
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84074
this pyp
prob should have linked immediately but am a lazy duck (this said something else but autocorrect decided to change it into duck and i am keeping it)

[Datisi]

Oh whoops, thanks peta. Dats ill look at your link tom

skitt, i can save you looking at the link, it's a game where i started pushing scum!gypyx on page 1.5 and then he lurked out until we put him out of his misery on day 2. i was using it to say that i *know* gypyx lurks as scum. i was asking you if you have town!gypyx experience, i think you said at some point that he lurks more as scum than as town. i'm asking bc in my one encounter with town!gypyx, he wasn't a shining beacon of activity either.

atp in the game I kind of want to explore BB teams or Datisi teams

They are worlds that make the most sense to me.

what is your read on sechyd?

actually @s_s same question.

ok i'll go dig for the posts now

[Datisi]

[Datisi]

go ahead, vote me
you can't ungrab my pagetop
actually wait shit no you can
huhhhh

[Datisi]

whoops i got distracted by Things

ok ico was missing for a good part of d2 but iirc it was irl shit so nai

ok i went through ico's iso on d2 and my head hurts. the posts from d2 aren't good, i've said that before i think. but i just don't see the scummines. like maybe i'm confbiasing due to having recent success in reading ico associates. maybe i'm pocketed by d3 posts idek i can admit his d2 is Not Stellar but i just don't think it's that scum!indicative. it feels different.

i ran into the post where he's lowkey shading me (2893) and i read a bit around it and found 2912. and it's reminding me that that play at the time did not make any sense form scum!ico pov. implo was a possible cw that he already had the basis to jump on. people were slowly turning against me as well. he could easily bs that i'm scum protecting him for brownie points, shit he's seen me do that before. instead he loltownbins us and keeps on going after bb who at the time was a vanity.

(also it's reminded me of the Secret Reason that ico is town, he did something that he also did in one chain of command where he was town and that i really think is town!indicative - but i still cannot out it because it would be counterproductive because Reasons.)

i still like his d3 and the way he was responding to both heads of bb. i think his reaction to qb fall in line w his town meta and i think he was still genuinely trying to understand skitter and if i'm wrong i'm gonna look like a huge idiot post game but it is what it is.

schia, i looked through your iso, but it's a wall i'm not in the mindspace of comprehending rn. can you tl;dr that again?

[Datisi]

bc i've seen him make not good posts as town before and it happens and i truly don't even know how to explain it anymore that i just Don't See It here

i mean like ok sure but (1) i'm going from my pov and (2) implo was a target on d2 with more support than me *and* ico already had a good basis to jump on him. does that make you reconsider from your pov then?

yeah i'm handwaving his d2 posts bc i truly do believe that his day 1 interaction w shirou are not s/s and that his d3 is much better than d2
like yeah that is how i read ico and sorry
i'm just hoping i'm actually correct and not driving this town off a cliff
but i've relooked at them and i do not see it

[Datisi]

why would that make no sense?

[Datisi]

i feel like you are making fun of me and that is not very nice, s_s

[Datisi]

i don't know what i'm more dissapointed in here, that godawful speedwagon or ico's read on me.

[Datisi]

mine

FUCK

[Datisi]

i did the rookie mistake

i stopped to read the pagebottom post

[Datisi]

time for... another lylo... ahahah...

Schiavetto, Datisi, petapan, N_M

Naturally I want to claim as late in the order as allowable by my peers.

obviously not my ideal but this is fine by me. isis can go right after me?

pedit: or that lol

[Datisi]

vt. isis.

[Datisi]

huh. i actually had a thought earlier that peta was a jk, once another doc flipped thought it was him. rip my schia/isis solve

also ok lol
VOTE: schiavetto

schia, why did you vote me there?

in a vacuum he's done way more but the baseline for him is way higher and he's steadily sunk below it. datisi please talk to me

helo. what do you wanna talk about.

[Datisi]

in a vacuum he's done way more but the baseline for him is way higher and he's steadily sunk below it. datisi please talk to me

helo. what do you wanna talk about.

why shouldn't i believe you are scum? your loss of enthusiasm and lack of scumhnting isn't one i typically associate with you as town. i know that sort of argument is flawed and annoying but i need to go off something here i guess.
what's your read between me and not_mafia?

because i'm not. and typically no, but there are games where i have trouble getting into it, and this was one of them. the day one prolonged drag-out, then the constant attacks against ico who i thought was really town, and knowing i didn't have enough clout to influence that yeet did a thing on my motivation. it's annoying to argue about since i'd probably be saying the same thing as either alignment, so.

if you wanna talk about actual events / my mindsent or something, by all means.

i thought you were townie for the most part (though maybe i was leaning into my "peta jk" theory slightly more than i should have), and i don't really have a read on n_m by play in a vacuum, but it probably doesn't matter anymore. between the two of you, it's likely n_m. i'm not sure i see why in a peta/schia world, schia sees that you're arguing how from your pov n_m has to be scum, and isis agreeing with you and townreading you, and then votes me, as opposed to letting you do your magic w isis and get town!n_m. also the vote came right after isis started saying how i'm the scummier one of the two of us. makes me think he's trying to turn it onto me.

[Datisi]

on instinct i think datisi's tone entering today was off but i don't trust my instincts anymore

peta, you said you wanna talk to me, talk to me. what about it was off?

[Datisi]

isis, what do i need to do to convince you it's schia and miltank?

[Datisi]

Maybe show me people to deadsheep about it. You feel off to me also.

come on, you know i can't show you that.

on instinct i think datisi's tone entering today was off but i don't trust my instincts anymore

peta, you said you wanna talk to me, talk to me. what about it was off?

i dont know lol

i need ~something~, i didn't have anything in mind to talk about but if you're town you need to convince me

s i g h
peta i don't know how to convince you. i don't know what makes people read me the way it does.

also i am so tired from mafia because literal two days ago i took a town that was on route to victory and single-handedly torpedoed it into the grand canyon. but i really really don't want it to happen again.

like you were reading me correctly on day one.

later on you accused me of not solving but that's both false and kinda a flawed argument. i was solving where i was able to - the issue was that i'd missed a good chuck of late day 1 which didn't help. but it's also a flawed argument because i know how to fake reads as scum, and bullshitting scumreads isn't difficult. like on day two, iirc there were shitfights around isis, there were shitfights with you and bb. (i'm assuming you're town here bc if you aren't then lol) like i could've taken advantage of those t/t things. instead i'd sat aside, weakly called y'all town, pushed infinity???

day three i actually thought mena was being scummy. me/him/ico have a long history of playing together, and mena prides himself in being able to read ico correctly (i think like every game except their first game together?). the fact that (1) he kept insisting that ico was scummy (2) genuinely wasn't trying to read the parts of the game that i felt were very town!indicative for ico made me think he's scum. it was kinda a dual bop on both me and him wrt reading ico. which was obviously half wrong but it made me think the slot is scum.

like it's hard for me to interact w "idk convince me" bc in vast majority of cases i never actually have to do that - people are convinced themselves. that's why i'm asking you, what is it that you're finding scummy. bc i don't know what else to do and i really REALLY don't wanna be the sole reason why a town has lost a game twice in the same week

[Datisi]

sorry, mom told me not to talk to scum

[Datisi]

I guess I would want to watch you sort but the game's kind of sorted from your PoV I guess if you buy into peta!town
Tell me how you would analyze NM's hammers/nothammers

i can tell you about my theory that you were scum preparing for my yeet in final 5 because on d3 you made a post like "i wanna think about either bb worlds or datisi worlds" but when d4 came by, you no-comment voted secret hydra while knowing that there'd be appetites for that yeet, and bc i'd be an ~easy~ push in final 5 bc you could call back to your suspicion on me from d3, and also you were kinda more widely townread than me and most likely win that 1v1 so.

obviously this all fell apart bc you're the jk but maybe it helps showing where my head was at, idk

i mean i've been town on him but i don't actually *know* how to read peta. but i don't think i could ever convince you to vote him anyway so it's like. i'm taking my previous ~townread on him and running with it because the game's not winnable if it's wrong anyway.

this is also a difficult question bc while i vaguely know n_m's rep, i don't actually know if his behaviour is ever ai one way or another.

ok, i reskimmed his iso again and the genuine answer would be that i do not know. like, if i wanted to, i could argue that his pattern of not hammering pooky (town), but then hammering implo, bb, sechyd (3 non-groupscum) is scum!indicative because the only time he didn't hammer someone / expressed a townread on them was when it was practically a done-deal that they're flipping, and there were enough people that wanted pooky dead... actually, wait, pp was voting sechyd the whole of d3, no? and he wasn't on the final wagon.

aaaagh. n_m didn't have to hammer sechyd there, likely pp does the job for him. *but* he also never expressed any sorta read on sechyd, so not hammering wouldn't really be town!indicative while there was another person ready to do it, bc he never genuinely tried to divert from sechyd and "not hammer" would obviously be just for show. so he wasn't really giving up any towncred by hammering there.

analyzing the patterns in a vacuum, the answer is "lol idk". if there really is precedent to n_m being more likely to actually play the game / express reads as town, then it's +scum, but that's meta i don't have.

[Datisi]

I feel like I have not voted scum all game and am trigger shy

you voted implo

(also going through your iso, you have voted both me and n_m, are you forgetting some of those votes or is schia/peta the Hot New Scumteam)

pedit: lol

[Datisi]

i mean i guess i had just found your dropoff scummy, like the energy that was there day 1 just kind of went away and there are incidental interaction things with notscience.

i get that. like i get that but the game started tiring me out, peta. day one was dragging out when it should've been half as long. i'd wake up to like 10 new pages, and i'd read them, and i'd feel i was getting *nothing* from them. and picking up day two after feeling like that for a good chunk of day one is difficult for me. like i said, i had it happen in a different game, where my contributions then boiled down to nothing but prodging and getting yeeted in mylo. i knew i probably wouldn't be able to offer the ~obvtownness~ i had early game but i figured something is better than nothing and i tried to act where my gut was taking me

i know i'm obviously biased but do you want to talk about those interactions?

[Datisi]

i am a sucker for the talking about the paranoid theorizing about isis stuff. (though the comment about thinking i was jk fell in that category but looking back it only came after the flip so not as strong. i was kind of trying to project the possibility of being pr earlier, when bridgeburners was musing about the possibility of there being only 2 groupscum i shut that down, because speculating on that is a low-key VT claim or subtle rolefishing)

also lmao at "i don't know how to read peta, so i'll try to read not_mafia", because i would like to think i'm more readable than him, at least

i mean that's about it. i noticed a few times how isis was throwing shade my way but there never really was a strong push from her, which again made me think it could be the ole "scum taking a lhf townie into lylo for ez town vote". granted i didn't spend too much time fleshing out this theory bc i knew it was gonna be massclaim time and mech > reads and not like mine were very good this game.

and ehh, isis told me she'd like to see that. while i don't necessarily know how to read you, that goes tenfold for not_mafia lol

[Datisi]

actually i just realized something that makes it less likely for ico to be scum here but outing it would not be beneficial

rn i'm going through peta's iso ctrl+f'ing "datisi" and i found this and thought i might as well write what this was

it was my reaction to 2909. specifically the "if you are all truly scumreading us despite my words here, go right ahead and flip us, i do not currently have the strength to combat multiple of you". bc this just gave me such a flashback to this moment in one run of chain of command, where ico was getting run up, and straight out claimed vt without anyone giving intent. i thought this was similar bc the "oh whatever flip me" reveals similar ~non-survivalism~ that i heavily *heavily* connect to town!ico.

the problem was that i connect it to vt!ico. and there was zero chance in hell i was revealing that while isis was alive. i know what she does with premature vt claims.

[Datisi]

let me be over the top if i want to goddammit

ok but here's the thing, peta: it looked f a k e a s f u c k to me. like did it think that i might have been wrong? yeah sure wouldn't be the first nor the last time. but infinity was on zero votes. he wasn't on e-1, or n_m's e-1, he was on zero votes. what does it matter. why would i not vote there. we can sit here and argue, but like you're not gonna convince me that my infinity suspicion was bad because you happen to not see how one gets that read?

lol lemme tell you a secret, i'm also not sure what i'm doing. though i feel like that is decently false, like i'm obv town on ico, i'm trending town on infinity, i said implo's reads kinda don't make sense as scum, i said you/skit is prob t/t, like? read. also like lol what can i tell you. that's what happens when day 1 is 40 pages and 7 days longer than it needed to be, and also everyone left alive in the game has some sorta reasons to be townie.

i mean, like, if something sticks out to me i'm gonna question it, not about trying to convince you on this but to interrogate your thinking because i wasn't sure it was real. it's not about it being bad but not thinking it was a believable response, although, putting it as "it looked fake to me" is more plausible. probably shouldn't chew this over any more but i felt like picking at it because i was concerned

but, well, "game hard and i don't know what to do" is at least something understandable! i probably could have just asked for your reads rather than taking this approach, w/e

peta what were your feelings on me when walking away from this discussion?

[Datisi]

isis, that menalque hammer in autumnal left me some long lasting trauma!!

[Datisi]

i am town!!!

pedit: now i would usually vote you as a meme but because of obvious reason i won't

[Datisi]

also i have another idea brewing in my brain rn but i don't think it's ready yet

just a note for like soonish future

[Datisi]

and that's also the famous schiavetto vote post, which because i am now in cosmic brain mode has me saying "hey, it could be distancing, you never know".

you know what's actually hilarious
in the game i mishammered, the scum that was pocketing me similarly distanced from his partner on day 1 like that
and that was one of the reasons i didn't wanna vote him in f3
the irony

[Datisi]

isis, could you unvote for a second? earlier on i got a feeling that schia might be intentionally planking right now and that is worrying me

[Datisi]

like if you're town then schia needs to get you yeeted to win the game. doing nothing actively detracts from that purpose and makes it less like that

you

get voted

yeah exactly. it doesn't make sense that schia snapvotes me then lurks out and gives up. that's what's giving me pause. *why* isn't schia pushing me? he's playing a losing game. the problem here is that it's a losing game for him only if it's schia/n_m.

[Datisi]

which ass didn't ask for fast night

VOTE: schiavetto

[Datisi]

[Datisi]

VOTE: datisi

[Datisi]

<3
those notes are pretty much standard for what goes through my brain when rolling scum but i am glad people could get some enjoyment out of that

i loved playing with this playerlist, despite me losing my shit every time a misyeetable player repped out and a strong town player repped in

that fucking night 1 killed my soul

i retrospect i'm annoyed i didn't ~effort~ more after that considering how even with that n1, it was so close, and it would've been much a tougher lylo if there wasn't a jk alive i'm sure, but that's the game

implo town mvp

[Datisi]

Oh right - i think that daytalk should be the default for these sorts of setups (pyp, c9++ and varients, etc)

big +1

implo town mvp

Absolutely! Everyone should do their best in making sure Implo gets that message

i'm not salty about that shirou n1 kill at all

[Datisi]

i mean it almost influenced the game because at one point i almost accidentally wrote "btw guys i asked the mod, there's no daychat"