Open 796: Haunted Village Game Over

[Battle Mage]

oh no, im dumb. i thought egotisi in the vote count was xofelf lol. carry on...

[Battle Mage]

good thing you didnt self-vote yourself to -2 though eh?


saved it!

[Battle Mage]

i still want that sweet noraa claim then. maybe a town PR claim might save you!

[Battle Mage]

i still want that sweet noraa claim then. maybe a town PR claim might save you!

BM is scum for this. Literally take a good look at him and Infinity after I die that's all I request.

you still havent claimed. if you do, you might not be elimmed. it's easy!

[Battle Mage]

mister battle mage, may i interest you in some thoughts (1346) on why noraa might be aligned with the town?

-tisi

i dig it, but dude, i want to flip Taylor. If we can get a better alternative, I'm down with it. Otherwise flipping noraa is a reasonable compromise for me.

[Battle Mage]

i think the problem is at this stage, noraa-town is just going to pointlessly tunnel me anyway, so we may as well get it over with.

[Battle Mage]

yeah sure seems that way

[Battle Mage]

1389 logic is actually why you should think taylor is scum

[Battle Mage]

1389 logic is actually why you should think taylor is scum

the wagon on me isnt taking off because youre the only one who scumreads me and your case is "but shes scum tho"

i must be the best scumhunter here then, if im the only one! My case on you is pretty damning, to the point there's no way scum don't take you as an easy mislim here if you're town.

[Battle Mage]

1389 logic is actually why you should think taylor is scum

the wagon on me isnt taking off because youre the only one who scumreads me and your case is "but shes scum tho"

this

1389 logic is actually why you should think taylor is scum

the wagon on me isnt taking off because youre the only one who scumreads me and your case is "but shes scum tho"

i must be the best scumhunter here then, if im the only one! My case on you is pretty damning, to the point there's no way scum don't take you as an easy mislim here if you're town.

^This PlusJOYED

[Battle Mage]

Murder do you want to give intent so nora can claim? Don't see us getting much else out of this day, unless you have serious doubts.

lol if she wanted to claim she could have claimed already.

[Battle Mage]

I'm not totally opposed to a noraa flip since it'll convince me of scum X if Noraa flips town. I'm down to switch if we can get votes for X; I just think it'll be harder and we're on a timer

we are on a timer of two days, not two hours, no?

@bm, you said you scumread xof too, right? why noraa>xof for you?

-tisi

i think i answered that in the last page or so

[Battle Mage]

i think the problem is at this stage, noraa-town is just going to pointlessly tunnel me anyway, so we may as well get it over with.

policy?

-tisi

eh, i dont wanna be mean to noraa. im just being pragmatic i guess.

[Battle Mage]

No one gave intent. Why should I claim?

lol coz if you dont claim you'll die? cmon, you know how this goes!

[Battle Mage]

I don't want to claim and will be pretty salty to have to claim today.

alright, your call then.

i'm fine to flip noraa and end the day now. doesn't feel like we're getting anywhere else fast.

[Battle Mage]

I don't want to claim and will be pretty salty to have to claim today.

alright, your call then.

i'm fine to flip noraa and end the day now. doesn't feel like we're getting anywhere else fast.

question. You said you had a good idea of what Noraas role is earlier, but now you want her blood?
What did you think Noraa's role was?

answer: you are kidding me right? why do you think im bothering to push for her to claim? to see if i was right. im not gonna tell her beforehand am i.

[Battle Mage]

obviously you're not that interested, as you've jumped ship.

[Battle Mage]

BM *hinted* that I was a pr. Yet now he is forcing me to claim which is not allowed cuz someone on my wagon cannot declare intent on me.

i can declare what i like. you dont need intent to claim. although with the benefit of hindsight, i can see why you didnt, given Plus crumbled.

i didnt hint anything.

[Battle Mage]

question. You said you had a good idea of what Noraas role is earlier, but now you want her blood?
What did you think Noraa's role was?

OML plus is town for this. Even I forgot but yeah that's really fishy. BM thought I was a pr and now is forcing me to claim and threatening to kill me if I don't

i havent said what i thought you were. saying i'm "forcing you to claim and threatening to kill you" is a bit AtE lol

[Battle Mage]

i can buy Plus as town, but his incessant rolefishing is not helpful

[Battle Mage]

im glad im dying tonight lol

[Battle Mage]

bm im curious of what noraa is too but like you haven't helped town at all this game
peddit What the fuck bm are you fucking with me right now
I'm doing the opposite. Your rolefishing

i hinted about what i thought noraa's role was. You then wrote a long diatribe trying to fish for info about me and her. And then later, you returned to this, and fished for info from me again. That is rolefishing.

Me telling Noraa to claim because she's at -1. Eh, I'm not exactly being coy about wanting her to claim her role am i?

There is a difference between subtly rolefishing and outright asking for a claim.

As for you saying I haven't helped town at all this game - seriously, I've made sensible observations and had beneficial discussions for sorting people, I've made it very clear I'm obvtown so won't get mis-elimmed, I think I've had good reads, and at the very least, I've had clear reads which were well articulated and evidenced when appropriate. I've actually been the model townie.

I think when you say I haven't helped town, I think you've just misunderstood what the town wincon is.

[Battle Mage]

You guys realize scum has a roleblocker and rolecop right?
we don't want to out PRs if we can help it since for scum it narrows rolecop target and they can roleblock pr claims to get them killed

i don't believe you believe this, given your previous attempts to try and out PRs, so I'm dropping you to null-read.

[Battle Mage]

That said, I think there is a decent chance that town Noraa is actually vanilla here and is hinting anyway, so that's why I want her to just commit one way or the other

i agree that would be beneficial, although it won't happen. I've basically given up hope for this game. It feels like a clean-sweep for scum already with how easily wagons are being created and destroyed. too easy for scum to control the narrative, unless they are woefully inept.

[Battle Mage]

I think Plus is just new BM and I think new players overrate PRs

yeah it could be that he just misunderstood what rolefishing was, but still.

[Battle Mage]

l do seriously suspect Xof or Noraa is red.
if nothing else Noraa has been helpful for scumhunting where X has not
peddit: there are different kinds of PRs, and we know scum has different tools to deal with each.

no offence, but you also said I wasn't helpful for scumhunting, so I'm not sure I trust your judgement on that. I agree noraa has been helpful for scumhunting, but unfortunately I think that time has passed. Now it will just be "tunnel BM tunnel BM" endlessly. Which incidentally, is NAI for Noraa, but it's invariably anti-town and pointless. This, incidentally, is why I held back on revealing my earlier suspicions of her slot.

Taylor, if you're curious, the difference between my tunnel on you and noraa's tunnel on me, is that noraa will post LOTS of content about it. At least I keep it simple and stick to the basic message without inflating the thread.

[Battle Mage]

BM me asking you for what you think someones role is is not rolefishing
you going so hard to get Noraa to claim is rolefishing

as i recall, you admitted you were rolefishing at the time. this is a pointless discussion - you're wrong, it doesn't necessarily make you scum, it doesn't matter, I don't care.

[Battle Mage]

That said, I think there is a decent chance that town Noraa is actually vanilla here and is hinting anyway, so that's why I want her to just commit one way or the other

no are you kidding thats exactly why she shouldnt commit either way

yeah
what the hell Murder/BM

you're sheeping scum dude

[Battle Mage]

Plus I agree with infinity, if we are going to make xof happen we need something to happen with Noraa first. Honestly if Noraa is PR, claims, and dies for it tonight and we lim xof scum today instead that sounds like a great outcome for today.

pedit: BM am I crazy? Like how does a claim not happen at some point on D1 literally no matter what?

no you're not crazy. you're right.

[Battle Mage]

I've elected to ignore everything BM says

that's bad strategy if you're town. rule number 1 of forum mafia - read what people post. also a good idea generally if you're new and gaining experience.

[Battle Mage]

Taylor has gone up in my townreads too.

ah can you explain why?

[Battle Mage]

Taylor has gone up in my townreads too.

ah can you explain why?

we kill xof. If X flips red Noraa is probably clear, if X flips green we kill Noraa

how does that make Taylor town? also i dont really follow your opposition to a noraa-flip if you think it's as simple as SvT, with noraa being more likely scum which is clearly your mindset above.

[Battle Mage]

yeah agree^

[Battle Mage]

eh, i'm really torn on plus now. are you confident he is just newbtown?

[Battle Mage]

I think this is new town cold feet yeah. The other options are Plus is scum with Noraa, and I think you have to bus. Or Plus is scum without Noraa and then you just push it through.

i can see plus-scum being scared to bus noraa though. Hell, if I was scum with noraa, i'd think twice before bussing

[Battle Mage]

i guess overall i dont think Plus-scum leaves himself this alienated and exposed though. so maybe town.

anyone else spot how happily Taylor abandoned the Noraa wagon when a viable counterwagon popped up? I wonder why...

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: noraa

[Battle Mage]

This is intent, please claim noraa

well played.

Look, if yeeting me gives you more information on solving all these other pushes on me and through out, by all means go for it. We won't be losing anything important in the process. I'm not a PR, nor am I scum, so if that makes it easier to actually vote out the people who ARE, go for it. I'm gonna flip green, but not a green that it's gamelosing when I do.

I don't really like how little Isis is contributing here. I know she's incredibly precise in all that she says ever, but I feel like she normally says more.

Initial reaction - I like the claim, but not a lot. Like the vt claim, and decisively worded which feels genuine, but less keen on the martyr-type vibes. Overall it doesn't make me any more interested in a xoxelf flip, so preference still Noraa.

I can respect the egotisi argument for not wanting to out a town PR, but i'm worried about town being railroaded here and am willing to risk outting a PR in order to maximise chances of getting a scumflip.

[Battle Mage]

Give me a while to catch up. If we’re missing the people needed for Noraa, consider my vote there.

—Alice

i think this counts as intent btw

[Battle Mage]

Nora already softed pr. I’m

really

suspicious of everyone being fine with the nora elim and getting off at the last minute for no discernible reason, without even a claim.

Agree

i didnt think id ever be vibing with you two...

[Battle Mage]

what about an egotisi lim? the last few pages have made me really think that whichever of noraa and xof is scum, egotisi for sure is.

For those keeping score:

Taylor happily on the Noraa-wagon at E-1.
As soon as the Xofelf counter-wagon starts, she promotes it whilst remaining on Noraa.
Following the Xofelf claim, she tries to finish off Xofelf.
When opposition is presented, she suggests an Egotisi-wagon instead.

Everyone cool with that, yeah?

[Battle Mage]

Eh, sorry. I roll VT an obnoxious amount of the time, and I don't typically have fun playing it, it is a role I hate. I need information I can give or have to actually feel like I'm accomplishing anything, otherwise I feel like I'm just biding time til I die. I'm actually trying to do something more here, but I don't think I am managing that so much.

But also yes, Noraa needs to claim at this point.

do you have any completed games you can link to?

may sound like a silly question, but i looked in your recent topics and it's all non-mafia stuff.

[Battle Mage]

I had a cult spotter in a previous game which was just this side of not VT, and that was actually fun cuz I at least had information to do something with. I kinda.. need direction and concrete something to work with or I don't exactly know where to go or where to really start, and too many options and variables makes for not fun for xoffies. BUT I'm trying here.

BM does kind of have a point, but idk, both he and Taylor feel a little bulldog grabbing a hold on things.

I'm completely right on the Taylor-meta. she started the game as open-wolfing scum, playing deliberately anti-town in an open setup. Exactly like she did in her only other scum game, also in an open setup with me. It's the strongest meta read I've ever had I think. Taylor is smart enough to play to her wincon.

[Battle Mage]

VT is the best role.

I kind of wanted to be in control of the hammer but I trust Alice I guess

Noraa is still E-2 right? If so I'll vote

yeah do it

[Battle Mage]

infinity - are you strong?

[Battle Mage]

the amount of people saying "if noraa flips town, do this" is making me nervous

[Battle Mage]

Can someone paint me a picture their xof scumread? I haven’t minded her since early game at all.

For me it's just a complete lack of scum hunting and general disinterest in the game unless their name comes up. And I get that happens as town sometimes, but I explicitly asked for more effort and reads and didn't really get anywhere

Also if you are pooky you can tell me

if this is pooky, we need an intervention.

[Battle Mage]

UNVOTE:

[Battle Mage]

Y'all really want a claim eh? sure. I am a vanilla town.
I was preparing to fake claim/strong soft an important role until I remembered that for scum its completely open setup(someone posted that a few posts ago) so I decided against it. Cuz if I claimed a role that actually existed, a pr might out to cc and that would do the opposite of what I wanted my soft to do. If I claimed a pr that's not on the list, the scums are gonna think I'm a vt throwing so that also doesn't help anyone. I was originally just gonna soft a really strong pr but never reveal exactly as to draw the nk. I definitely think if I had softed something really powerful, I could've eaten the nk bc after all, they have 3 prs and I'm certain they don't want any to die day 2(I would've softed that I was that powerful). Prolly would've went with vig but anyways that's a bad idea in case there actually is a vig and if there isnt, scums wouldn't be scared of me anyways so that all doesn't work out if scum know what prs town has. Anyways that plan's not gonna work now that I claim vt and wasn't gonna work anyways since I forgot something major so there was a big flaw in the plan.

yeah ok i buy it. for the record, that's exactly what I thought you were when I posted earlier that I thought I knew your role. I was trying to tease you a bit into fake-claiming a PR as I would've felt better about elimming you.

ok so what do we do now?

[Battle Mage]

no probs dude.

One thing worries me now about the xofelf claim.

She said "i'm so sick of getting VT all the time" only she has barely played any games in 10 years? makes me think it's maybe BS

[Battle Mage]

1389 logic is actually why you should think taylor is scum

the wagon on me isnt taking off because youre the only one who scumreads me and your case is "but shes scum tho"

i must be the best scumhunter here then, if im the only one! My case on you is pretty damning, to the point there's no way scum don't take you as an easy mislim here if you're town.

Mate, having good reads don’t mean shit if you can’t convince anyone, and your Taylor read is awful. You pretty much rehash the same shit. It seems more like you’re afraid to lose to scum!Taylor than you legitimately think she’s scum.

lol did norweg abandon your hydra because you kept spamming pointlessly about stuff from 100 posts ago?

[Battle Mage]

no probs dude.

One thing worries me now about the xofelf claim.

She said "i'm so sick of getting VT all the time" only she has barely played any games in 10 years? makes me think it's maybe BS

that was to Murder btw

[Battle Mage]

bm im curious of what noraa is too but like you haven't helped town at all this game
peddit What the fuck bm are you fucking with me right now
I'm doing the opposite. Your rolefishing

Yah this

gamma seriously, quit trolling and actually get involved in what's going on.

[Battle Mage]

P-edit: You're getting the reads that I have as I have them, Cat. You just don't tend to like that they're not big confident lists. That's not I do. If things look funky, I say so, that's what I do. I am interested, but I need more information to give you the kind of reads and feelings you're looking for.

I don't even need a big list, but I think I never got a response to asking you for you top three SRs? You gave one and I asked for two more. The problem is just that I literally can't sort you without info. So yeah you could do this as town but you could also do it as scum and just coast and there's no way to tell it apart

I get that. Unfortunately I don't have an answer for you. Nobody else is pinging me in a way I feel they're at bare minimum negative town utility. There are people that I don't feel great about but not enough I'm scumreading them for it. And I did give those before, which was Plus and Taylor read really funny to me, but they've also been advocates for my death so I'm not super sure if that's what my feeling is coming from or if they're just bad on their own. When egotisi wasn't here, they were null as hell, and I don't hate what they're posting now. Isis not being here either also worries me. But none of those feelings are what I'd call scumreads, they're just feelings and reactions which may be nothing. So what you keep asking me for and what I can give you don't match up.

But also, UNVOTE: . I can buy it.

who do you want to flip? excluding egotisi

[Battle Mage]

Noraa is already hinting at PR it's too late for that

What did you make of Noraa’s PR hinting in the moment, and what do you make if it now that she’s claimed vanilla?

ooh ill give my own take on this, as it's a good question!

At the time, I hated it and thought it was scummy. Now she claimed, I am very cool with it, especially with her explanation of her reasoning.

[Battle Mage]

I'd love to see someone come in now with a novel suggestion which isnt the 2 claimed VTs and Ego.

[Battle Mage]

I'd love to see someone come in now with a novel suggestion which isnt the 2 claimed VTs and Ego.

Dunnstral?

it's novel. i like it. you gonna case it?

[Battle Mage]

like i think she stalled it out to get a general consensus for what claim would be best. People liked the idea of Noraa VT and people townread X for a VT claim so she went with that

yes, perhaps in retrospect it might have been more effective if you hadn't kept pushing for me to say what I thought she would claim...

[Battle Mage]

Why are we backing off Nora?

she's bleeding VT

[Battle Mage]

I've elected to ignore everything BM says from here on out as he's claimed the VI slot. Hopefully scum kills them

Taylor has gone up in my townreads too.

This feels squicky
Plus, Murder, ego team?

a big solve. I'm leaning town on Plus and Murder though. Dropping Ego to neutral given 2 of my scummier reads had goodish claims.

[Battle Mage]

Can you walk me through why Ego is scum? I have liked Datisi’s posting this game.

Pedit
I think that’s a very naive take, bm.

naive? lol i mean it's my opinion buddy. you tell me why it's naive? presumably you know something i dont

[Battle Mage]

i feel like, if i was scum in this game, especially having the strongman, I would always be claiming PR. always always always.

[Battle Mage]

like i think she stalled it out to get a general consensus for what claim would be best. People liked the idea of Noraa VT and people townread X for a VT claim so she went with that

I stalled because if I had survived the day sorting vig without ever claiming, its actually pretty possible that I could've eaten the nk. Ofc if the prs don't have anything destructive, scums would've know I was throwing but if I had softed very vaguely, scums seriously might've just thought I was the strongest pr on their list and let me eat the kill. But I mean once I got to E-1 and knowing that there are many ways this plan could backfire and end up just hurting town, I decided I should just claim my real ass role.

I think you did a good job Noraa. Sorry for making you claim, I did want to get some confidence you were town.

Who you wanna elim?

[Battle Mage]

I don't want ego to flip cuz that's not going to give any information. Honestly, Plus or Taylor give a fair bit of information really. Taylor flip kinda gives a read on you, BM, but also there's a lot of interactions people have had with both slots so it's actually information that can do a fair bit of stuff. Noraa was another that would help, but I'm inclined to leave her be for now.

Also, I do have a bunch of my game stats on my wikipage, it's just ridiculously out of date.

vote taylor then

[Battle Mage]

Besides the whole townslip thing she tried to pull, and I’m pretty sure she’s playing up the “overeager newbie who didn’t know better” card.

Pedit
Well yes but you don’t want to trade for it d1

And you’re discounting the possibility she is the strongman lol. Even if not, iirc scum picked the blocker too?

i agree that's possible. i don't know if it makes me naive that i don't feel it is the case though.

[Battle Mage]

i wouldn't be opposed to a bm flip either

please try and play for the town

[Battle Mage]

BM and Noras interactions don’t read as T/T at all.

lol you should see every other game we've played together.

[Battle Mage]

you acted newbie to deflect suspension is what i meant

i did what now?

[Battle Mage]

Xofelf - you have 1 post to vote taylor, or I'm voting for you again.

[Battle Mage]

i need my townies to have a bit of zeal!

[Battle Mage]

I've mostly caught up now.

I repeat, we should not go anywhere other than [egotisi, Noraa] today. Please put your trust in me.

Why are we moving off? Is it cold feet? I don't see how people don't see the egotisi/Noraa mentions as them being scum together and trying to swing the elim in any other direction to save both their hides.

—Alice

i dont think i agree. im very wary of the fact nobody is able to suggest another viable wagon outside those 3. makes me think we have at best 1 scum in there, maybe 0.

[Battle Mage]

i think we've given cobra a free-pass today, and im not really sure why.

[Battle Mage]

Noraa, who do you think is scum now?

[Battle Mage]

Is there even a town role that has MD powers in this setup? How do you know that scum know the powers but not what powers can exist in the setup Noraa?
I think that might be a scumslip?

explain?

[Battle Mage]

ah, well either of you can explain the scumslip to me

[Battle Mage]

I think you’re butthurt I called out your sketch interactions with Noraa multiple times.

That's creepy man, stay away from my butt

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Noraa
There are no town MD roles in the setup. The fact Noraa thought there might be one despite having some breadth of setup knowledge makes me think she is scum who only knew the things she knew because it was disclosed to her as scum.

or she was just riffing? from what i can tell, she knew there was a vig as she was gonna fakecrumb it. But beyond that, i dont know if she would have known all the roles?

You could argue she pretended she didn't know about the lack of MD role for towncred, but that's not a scumslip. I'm town, and I don't know what all the possible town roles are, so quite possible noraa could be the same.

[Battle Mage]

Noraa, who do you think is scum now?

still infinity

Is there even a town role that has MD powers in this setup? How do you know that scum know the powers but not what powers can exist in the setup Noraa?
I think that might be a scumslip?

I don't know if there is but I just thought of Mafiasunny where MD was the crucial role in the end.

alright, if you flip town I'll take a look at infinity. looks like you just died... probably not a good sign.

[Battle Mage]

Tomorrow look at Infinity. My SR on BM I'm not sure what happened to it but its slightly there.
But mostly. LOOK AT INFINITY

you legit town dude?

[Battle Mage]

if y'all just mis-elimmed noraa, take a long hard look at yourselves during the night-phase, and flip taylor tomorrow like i've been saying all game.

[Battle Mage]

and alternatively, if you're scum noraa....haha I knew it! I had you all along....

[Battle Mage]

we could flip Isis I guess?

[Battle Mage]

i dont feel like i care that much anymore. i think xofelf is a better elim than noraa. egotisi is a better elim than noraa, but similar to xofelf.

It's easily possible they are all town. It's unlikely more than 1 is scum. xofelf-noraa both being scum is inconceivable.

i could probably find 3/4 slots i'd rather flip. but this day has been a slog.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Tayl0r

I'm just gunna sheep BM for a bit

let's give it 1 last try then

VOTE: Taylor

if i'm wrong, i promise y'all can run me up tomorrow (assuming i dont die tonight, which is pretty unlikely with 2 VT claims lol)

[Battle Mage]

If this is the state of the game, I'd rather everyone calm down and wait for the people who haven't checked in to give their opinions. We aren't at deadline yet. It'll also give me time to consult with my other heads and give more responses to Noraa/egotisi.

—Alice

Alice just get back on the taylor wagon please. we need some momentum.

[Battle Mage]

I'm still really questionable about Noraa, I think I see town Noraa dong that but the way it happened makes me feel like it's fake

I mostly feel frustrated about xofelf

i feel worse about xofelf given the fact she pretended to be frustrated about always rolling VT despite barely playing any games. and the reaction around her claim was to immediately abandon, whereas noraa has seen a resurgence in interest.

[Battle Mage]

if y'all just mis-elimmed noraa, take a long hard look at yourselves during the night-phase, and flip taylor tomorrow like i've been saying all game.

and alternatively, if you're scum noraa....haha I knew it! I had you all along....

I don’t like this positioning

I read that as a joke

yeah 2nd one was in jest. Note Cobra Kai emotionally shading me from the sidelines though.

BM has had

awful

interactions with her all game.

[Battle Mage]

Xofelf - you have 1 post to vote taylor, or I'm voting for you again.

ultimatums are not pro town. manipulating people is blatantly anti-town. this post doesnt come from a town mindset. ever.

lol you're kidding right?

I've mostly caught up now.

I repeat, we should not go anywhere other than [egotisi, Noraa] today. Please put your trust in me.

Why are we moving off? Is it cold feet? I don't see how people don't see the egotisi/Noraa mentions as them being scum together and trying to swing the elim in any other direction to save both their hides.

—Alice

and BM too. i bet BM said to claim VT because its unexpected, and then BM decided to say the thing about never claiming VT as scum. or theyre scared because they dont know what to claim.

this makes me think maybe Noraa is scum, given Taylor is trying to set me up as a miselim off the back of a Noraa-red-flip.

[Battle Mage]

if noraa flips red, i think start with taylor and cobra kai tomorrow, as they're both more focused on maneuvering around that red-flip to set up a miselim tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

so youre saying scum!me hard busses from daystart and leads a wagon on scum just to set up a mislunch on a townie? that seems pretty dumb of me to do.

maybe i am

VOTE: noraa i'll bite

[Battle Mage]

I'm a lil scared taylor is pocketing me but its so blatant i dont think thats the case
I wanna townblock with them against battle mage
I'm honestly null on battle mage he's just hurting my enjoyment of the game

As far as I'm concerned i have been perfectly reasonable to you. You ranted and swore at me, and I (along with others) gently pointed out you were incorrect to say you hadn't been role-fishing. It's ok to be wrong, but I'm aware that since that mistake you have drifted into some anti-town tendencies. I would continue to suggest that if you are town you focus on elimming scum, rather than elimming people who disagree with you - there is a distinction.

[Battle Mage]

cool, night night folks, see you tomorrow!

[Battle Mage]

Tayl0r was so obvtown

Really?

lol definitely not obvtown - she literally played the exact same way in her only completed scumgame, and completely differently in all her towngames, so can't argue with it. And
although I'm not an advocate of policy-elims, generally speaking I'd always look to eliminate people who actively approach the setup in an anti-town way (statistically, it reaps rewards). But I guess the conclusion for Taylor specifically is, she is not easy to read.

[Battle Mage]

that's hilarious, as I've just found out you've been PMing Mods asking them to not let me join any new games because you have a personal issue with me (which apparently stems from me voting for you in some of our games).

[Battle Mage]

to answer your question though - this is forum mafia, and if i'm town and think you're scum, the aim of the game is to elim you. Clearly if I thought you were town, as I have done in other games, I wouldn't be aiming to elim you. But it wouldn't be fair to play a game under the premise that I couldn't ever vote for you, and if that's your expectation it's probably best we don't play together, especially if I'm punished outside of the game for voting for you within it (as that seems against the spirit of fair play).

[Battle Mage]

Taylor, it's simply not true that i tunnel you in every game we play. If you don't want to play with me that's fine, but I am currently only playing 1 game, and you are exercising a veto to prevent me from joining new games which is not fair when my understanding is that you are currently playing dozens of games, as well as blocking the queues for all new games. Given I have not broken any rules or behaved inappropriately, it doesn't seem right to me that you are effectively banning me from playing because you're upset that you got vigged in this game (not even by me!).

[Battle Mage]

in game after game you've voted me and stopped working to solve other slots. your case has consisted of "taylor is scum" "taylor is scum". in this game you opened by voting me in rvs, and i dont think you ever really considered the possibility i might be town. its not fun for me. its distracting for other people. it derails the game. and theres a clear pattern - when you see me in a game you scumread me. i dont have an issue with you as a person. i do have an issue with the way you consistently treat me in games.

i asked you to explain why you scumread me, and you never did beyond repeating that im scum. its fine to scumread me. i like being scumread and find that it helps me engage and solve. but i need to be able to see that theres reasoning behind it.

I did explain my scumread on you this game. And as noted, I do not scumread you in every game. I have both incorrectly townread you and incorrectly scumread you.

All of which is slightly besides the point - which is that given I haven't done anything wrong, I don't think it's reasonable for you to prevent me from playing on this site. In general, I don't agree with the practice of using out-of-game punishments to penalise players for making bad in-game decisions.

[Battle Mage]

eyy guys. both of u be awesome people. pm it out. throw some virtual paragraph slippers at each other if need be but c'monnnnnn
*pinches both of u*
u be full grown peoples

I think it would probably be fair to say Noraa tunnels me in every game we play, but it wouldn't make me not want to play with her (because i recognise that her reads as town are in good faith, and it's my responsibility to prove my towniness), and it 100% wouldn't make me block her from joining games.

[Battle Mage]

As it stands if I’m having to handle a situation where you’re both signed up to I game I’m gonna mos and have issues with each other I’d probably tell you both to pack sand
Neither of you seems very mature in this situation.

*shrug* I legitimately don't have any issue with Taylor (aside from the PMing Mods thing we are discussing now, which is a discrete point). And I think I'm being perfectly measured and reasonable in conveying my view on that.

[Battle Mage]

i'm not mad, just disappointed and a bit perplexed lol

i guess if worst comes to the worst, i'll just have to create some alts or retire or something. but that feels a bit silly.

[Battle Mage]

thats a reasonable take Gamma. i think i tried to allude to the same in post 2417.

[Battle Mage]

bm ..... don't bring up something like that here.
it makes it pretty difficult for Taylor to do anything without feeling completely exposed and shit.
y'all have problems and have had them for a while.
what caused Taylor to do that is something you should pm her for and I believe pming is the correct thing to do right now. I am not taking sides but am not happy you(BM) decided here was a good place to do this.

neither of you act like you are 100% right while pming and this issue will be solved in no time.
calm down and pm it out. both sides gotta let their pride down a bit to make this work. I believe in both of u and I believe both of u are awesome people. let's make this work shall we?

Noraa, tbh I think it's better we didn't have this convo via PM - from my perspective PMs are actually the issue here (specifically PMs which have been sent to Mods preventing me from joining new games), and I think some transparency and clarity here is welcome and reassuring for me, and probably constructive to resolution as it enables people like yourself and Gamma to give a helpful view. Rest assured I'm being completely honest, free from pride, and perfectly calm.

[Battle Mage]

Well since you two are taking it out in public.
BM can be pretty blockheaded and tunneling. There are situations where he’s tunneled me/other town for wtf reasons. But just ridicule his moonlogic reasonings and he’ll likely lose steam eventually.

lol this is fair - i am trying to take this aspect out of my game, as I do actually care about winning and generally tunnelling is more harmful than beneficial. i think what hurts me slightly is some players bash and discredit me pretty much whatever I do, which means it can feel like tunnelling is the only way I can get anything done. I went on a run of games earlier this year where players gave me lots of respect and I played really well because I felt confident I could be more measured and still influence things in a pro-town way. It's a tough balance to strike.

[Battle Mage]

As it stands if I’m having to handle a situation where you’re both signed up to I game I’m gonna mos and have issues with each other I’d probably tell you both to pack sand
Neither of you seems very mature in this situation.

I personally think you shouldn’t blacklist anyone for reasons other than toxicity or blatant gamethrowing.

yeah this is basically what I think. There was one occasion where I said I wouldn't play with somebody, but in that situation the Mod approached me (and others) as the player had a reputation for being abusive, and I said I'd rather not play with that person for that reason, but if needed I would be fine with giving up my spot for them. As it happened all other players said the same thing, and the Mod took a view.

[Battle Mage]

tl;dr im sorry. lets move past this and start fresh? no hard feelings

sounds good to me, thank you.