Open 796: Haunted Village Game Over

[MURDERCAT]

Isn't plus cleared by setup during mass claim tomorrow if Isis flips scum?

[MURDERCAT]

Gamma no you are throwing

[MURDERCAT]

UNVOTE:

Wait you are commuter?

[MURDERCAT]

Oh ffs

[MURDERCAT]

I'm a witch hunter, I copped taylor and crumbed it and I shot cobra because he "scumslipped"

[MURDERCAT]

yo
VOTE: egotisi

no i wanna go ego today i changed my mind on them

ok
I got a guilty on egotisi, that"s why I want them today

as in a guilty cop result

You should probably hit Taylor tonight or BM will be annoying in the dead PT

I also feel bad my halfass meta read was wrong but that’s in the past.

There should have been no way for cobra to know that you were witch hunter not cop

[MURDERCAT]

I staunchly believe Isis should be flipped today. I was thinking about it overnight and my gut is insisting she has to be scum.

VOTE: Isis

Pedit
No.

this post murder.
i thought since cobra implied I was a cop, and thought we didn't have duplicates, he'd have to be maf. but i was wrong and changed my mind. I could see exorcists making that mistake.

I could see exorcists making that mistake.

That's kinda dumb but ok

This was just for lols

[MURDERCAT]

I legit thought Dunn was fake claiming to force an Isis elim, but then mod said 9 points was possible. Dunn please confirm your claim is real.

I didn't claim because FMPOV Isis is obvscum and I wanted to get my tracker shot off

[MURDERCAT]

I don't fucking know dude

[MURDERCAT]

2 claims must be fake now, correct?

[MURDERCAT]

I still think cobra had a guilty

[MURDERCAT]

I also think Dunn is clear

[MURDERCAT]

if you copped taylor
your only "crumb" post is very odd???

Well yeah, I mean you had already posted so that inno wasn't super high value. I wanted to make sure I got my vig shot off (oops)

[MURDERCAT]

I didn't think it was worth it to out myself to save Taylor tbh

[MURDERCAT]

Also I didn't realize there could be multiple WH so I hadn't really worked through everything

[MURDERCAT]

At first I thought you were a cop fake claiming WH to try to draw both the kill and the RB

[MURDERCAT]

I think this basically confirms we have 9 points by the way, unless Dunn was fake claiming

4 confirmed due to 2 dead WH
2 from me out as WH
2 from Plus out as WH
2 from Isis doc
1 from Dunn
1 from Gamma

That's 12 total points of claims, when max is 9.

[MURDERCAT]

There is no way I fake claim WH here, it makes absolutely no sense as scum when everyone thinks I'm town

[MURDERCAT]

So possible scum teams are {Isis Plus} which puts us at 8 total points, or we have 9 points and it's like {Isis Gamma} or {Isis Dunn}? Or Dunn fake claimed.

Infinity please confirm you are VT or I'm gunna lose my mind

[MURDERCAT]

I'm kind of pissed that I had to get outed today, I wanted the easy track and win. But if we flip Isis roleblocker we are ok

[MURDERCAT]

I think that Dunn might have been fake claiming though and we could have 9 points.

[MURDERCAT]

Plus if you are town I need you to see that there is no way I fakeclaim here because if Isis is my partner I just get traded off in one of the next 2 flips. If I claim VT I can just ride the town reads on me to the end, infinity already said he would flip gamma over me

[MURDERCAT]

I am saying Dunn is maybe town who fakeclaimed because he recognized the situation

[MURDERCAT]

Like {Isis xof} is still possible if Dunn fake claimed

[MURDERCAT]

Literally all day you can see that I am faking confusion on whether Isis is scum because I'm trying to get the RB if it still exists after today onto Infinity. Then I learn that 9 points is possible and Dunn maybe wasn't fakeclaiming. But still Isis scum makes sense and I can get the track off and win

[MURDERCAT]

I think Plus is just new BM and I think new players overrate PRs

you made this post but didn't want to reveal yourself to save a confirmed inno townie? When MULTIPLE people were telling me to shoot Taylor after I said I wanted town to decide?

There's just no way

??? What is wrong with that post?

[MURDERCAT]

FMPOV you weren't ever going to get that shot off anyway because you were going to get RB'd

Even if you did, I wanted my vig shot to go off

[MURDERCAT]

Dunn please come back, I still think it is {Isis xof}

[MURDERCAT]

Gamma you come back too please

[MURDERCAT]

Also we are 100% flipping Isis today, I almost vigged her night 1

[MURDERCAT]

We can have 9 points plus

[MURDERCAT]

Someone come post please, if we lose this game it will be my fault so I'd really rather not

[MURDERCAT]

Ok
the solve is murder/isis
gg
lets kill isis then i'll be dead
VOTE: isis

Plus please acknowledge that if I am scum, claim WH is really dumb. Like, if you think I'm that dumb fine but at least come acknowledge that

[MURDERCAT]

I know but like, the way we lose here is if plus and I are both town but both plus and gamma scum read me. And I think Isis is probably RB

[MURDERCAT]

If Dunn didn't then it's plus and you just elim me then plus I think

[MURDERCAT]

dunn is very likely cleared cuz exorcists soft

This is why Dunn was safe to fake claim as town

[MURDERCAT]

Why could we have 9 points but not 10? But also, why would we have 9 or 10 points unless scum is wining the hell out of us? Please let dunn be fakeclaiming and confirm it's isis/gamma

9 is the max according to the setup

[MURDERCAT]

We either have 8 points (in which case it's gg because last 2 scum are guaranteed in {isis, plus, murder}) or we have 9 points and Dunn was faking.

[MURDERCAT]

Ok I mean we can talk about that I guess, but I don't think gamma fakes there with a role that is known to be not in setup

[MURDERCAT]

let's ask mod if we know how many points we have. From my understanding you have to use all 6 points as scum if there were 9 townpoints.

Mod confirmed this is not the case

[MURDERCAT]

@MOD can scum pick roles freely within their power limit or do they have to pick their limit’s worth?

I did mix up the setup but maybe I mixed it up in a way that was accidentally correct?

The way I read the set up, scum may choose to sacrifice some of their points, as long as there was a valid set up that did not go over the point limit presented to them, I did not need to assign roles.

[MURDERCAT]

Lol infinity we did that as so much the same time I didn't even get a pedit

[MURDERCAT]

FMPOV, it pretty much as to be Dunn fake claim as town, {Isis xof} as scumteam. I really think plus is town. Gamma fake claim doesn't make sense. I think that infinity might literally be clear given the claims, but I need to think about that more. I think we hope that Isis is roleblocker, I get my track off and then you can just trade me and xofelf.

[MURDERCAT]

Infinity isn't clear because xof isn't, sorry

[MURDERCAT]

this is all going off a possible fake claim that doesn't make sense to do as town

It does make sense, I was literally calling for him to do it

[MURDERCAT]

I didn't realize we could have 9 points, that's what screws it up

[MURDERCAT]

at least promise you'll elim Taylor for me?

Yeah if you flip town tonight I'll take a look

By the way plus, this was be crumming my investigation

[MURDERCAT]

Why murder
what the hell
Fakeclaiming in an open setup as town is gross

Because if I get the track off then we just win

[MURDERCAT]

I think scum big brained themselves

I think town is big braining itself actually

[MURDERCAT]

In the inactives I think egotisi might be worthy of pressure, they shaded Nor at one point and haven’t responded to me when I addressed it

-GAMMA

VOTE: egotisi
While I'm a bit skeptical of Infinity's motives currently, I also think we've kinda been stuck talking about a few slots and a wagon here shakes that up a bit.

-GAMMA

I really think it's just {Isis xof}

[MURDERCAT]

That means scum used 5 points for their roles, meaning town has 8-9 points worth of roles.

This is the only thing that points to gamma for me

[MURDERCAT]

Because literally all the townies immediately assumed 8 points

[MURDERCAT]

Plus we need to hide our tracker targets so that if RB dies they don't know which one of us to kill

We both need to pick from {xof, gamma} but I think we can't share which we are doing

[MURDERCAT]

Or actually, maybe we force them to kill me if RB dies

[MURDERCAT]

We need to decide between xof and gamma today then and I track the one we think is scum

[MURDERCAT]

I've been literally throwing this whole game I think

[MURDERCAT]

Isis is gunna think I'm bad

[MURDERCAT]

I mean cobra scum slipped right? I was gunna hit Isis before I saw that

[MURDERCAT]

I reallllly hope that exorcists shot there as well

[MURDERCAT]

I'm guessing Cobra hit Taylor as well by the way, thinking that plus would either be RB'd or it wouldn't do any harm

[MURDERCAT]

I mean that is obvious now but referenced you having a shot twice.

[MURDERCAT]

I think town (mostly me but a little bit plus) is overplaying

[MURDERCAT]

Looking at meta at this point in the game is dumb imo.

We have enough info to win.

[MURDERCAT]

I am assuming Dunn is fake claiming otherwise we flip me and then plus and win

[MURDERCAT]

(After Isis obviously)

[MURDERCAT]

To avoid the massclaim.. (oops)

[MURDERCAT]

4 pts from dead WHs
2 pts from Plus WH
2 pts from MC WH
2 pts from Isis (likely fake)
1 pt from Dunn commuter
1 pt from Gamma commuter

If Isis is fake we are at total of 10 pts. I forgot 9 pts is possible so if Dunn isn't lying we just flip me and gamma

[MURDERCAT]

Plus for the 1000th time me claiming there literally makes it impossible to win for the reasons listed above.

There is no reason for me to fake claim when I was being town read by so many people.

[MURDERCAT]

The thing is that if Dunn isn't fake claiming then Gamma fake claim makes no sense to me because I think we always take Dunn over Gamma.

[MURDERCAT]

The play where I claim my real role is questionable as town??????

[MURDERCAT]

I mean Isis is scum, I'm not sure how that could be not true give what is pretty clearly a guilty

[MURDERCAT]

I've been SRing isis since Noraa flipped. If it's not Isis that means it has to be plus which I don't buy, right?

[MURDERCAT]

Also like how is that post from Cobra not a guilty?

[MURDERCAT]

Isis and plus is technically possible but I feel like you are just heading at straws tbh. I don't think plus commits to fake guilty there

[MURDERCAT]

Grasping*

[MURDERCAT]

Assuming Dunn claim is real because I was just confused before I am tracking gamma tonight.

[MURDERCAT]

Who did you doc night 2 and why?

[MURDERCAT]

I wish you were town Isis, but from my POV plus is 99% cleared from a guilty and calling a shot and any other way the math doesn't work.

[MURDERCAT]

Also I think some of the things you posted are inconsistent with the knowledge you should have about the setup :/

[MURDERCAT]

And what a fine case it is

[MURDERCAT]

Everyone in the dead thread probably thinks I'm dumb for even considering isis town for any amount of time today, but keep in mind I shot a JOAT with an apparent guilty this game

[MURDERCAT]

You would to choose between us I think

[MURDERCAT]

And I’m a commuter myself

[MURDERCAT]

Ok so my understanding of the game state is that one of me, isis, and plus is scum for sure. Assuming isis is scum, that puts us at 4+2+2+1+1=10 points of claims. So xof and infinity are clear because they claimed vt and one of the other claims must be false because we either have 8 or 9 points. It could be Dunn, be we think we have an inno there so it literally must be {Isis Gamma}? Someone please check this? Of course it could also be me FYPOV.

[MURDERCAT]

Thank you

[MURDERCAT]

Let's make this easy and both track gamma

[MURDERCAT]

I think I was just stick on the mindset of Dunn claim being fake because back when I was sure that we had 8 points it had to be fake FMPOV. And I didn't adjust after learning we could have 9 points because I had already mentally determined Dunn claim = fake

[MURDERCAT]

I think scum gamma didn't do the math? But I agree that does have me thrown off plus.

[MURDERCAT]

Hey I'm not happy I shot a WH either

[MURDERCAT]

I don't see how plus is ever scum because exorcists died and I didn't shoot them.

[MURDERCAT]

It's kinda annoying actually, I don't like solving games through piecing night actions together

[MURDERCAT]

Scum isis obviously sees that cobra has a guilty and blocks there knowing there's no cops in the game and therefore he would shoot her.

I think you are outing yourself a bit gamma :/

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: Isis

mmk

[MURDERCAT]

You wanna hammer gamma?

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah the double down on plus is weird, Gamma should think it's {Isis Dunn} I think

[MURDERCAT]

GG everyone I had a lot of fun. Feel bad for scum team that played well but didn't really have a chance (despite my poor play). Sorry cobra! Did exorcists also shoot there?

[MURDERCAT]

Thanks to brass for modding!

[MURDERCAT]

The simple change I would make to the setup is that Mafia has full setup knowledge and is given two possible setups (with the same number of points) to choose from to avoid crazy setups like this.

[MURDERCAT]

I imagine it is hard to play scum in a hydra

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah, as is, this setup might be so lolrandom that it is not really town or scum sided in idea, but is when rolls occur like mine where I rolled 3 Witch hunters in a row. There's only supposed to be a 20% chance of Witch hunter at all.

Yeah I think there is super high swing, but it might be balanced overall. Giving scum more choice at the start just limits that swing a bit

[MURDERCAT]

Also, what would be the reaction to Witch Hunter being a three point role instead of 2? Seems strong for a 2 point role, compared to the other 2 points.

I had considered this as well, I think it is reasonable because it's harder for scum to role pick against compared to cop

[MURDERCAT]

the infinity-MCat townpair

Infinity is the best

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah I was expecting a no kill but obviously didn't want to put the idea out there

[MURDERCAT]

Lol sorry I though you were scum all game xof, a lot of it was Isis's interactions with you

[MURDERCAT]

Battle Mage asks to kill Cobra Kai, but he's a villager, so... Failure.

Ah so I wasn't alone after all!

[MURDERCAT]

About to assemble the Night 2 actions, but why is Cobra Kai shooting Tayl0r?

I think this makes sense because either the Plus shot is allowed to go through because Taylor is town, no harm no foul. If Plus is RB'd Taylor still dies. He already got the guilty out so Isis is dead at some point anyway.

[MURDERCAT]

@Gamma I am curious if you read that I was the final PR before the massclaim?

[MURDERCAT]

Because despite infinity being my pal, I was trying to set him up to eat the shot

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah the rolecop on you Plus doesn't make much sense either?

[MURDERCAT]

I'm going to switch to VOTE: egotisi, because I don't think either head has responded to me and that could very well be GeorgeBailey still horrified of my history catching him and consciously or subconsciously not wanting to keep me on the agenda.

Weak vote

VOTE: egotisi
While I'm a bit skeptical of Infinity's motives currently, I also think we've kinda been stuck talking about a few slots and a wagon here shakes that up a bit.

-GAMMA

Weak vote. What are we actually doing here?

I was right at least that these were weak votes

[MURDERCAT]

Same

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah the rolecop on you Plus doesn't make much sense either?

We were trying to set up Isis to fakeclaim healer

Oh that does make sense

[MURDERCAT]

And they were weak votes because egotisi lacked content. I won’t say I absolutely would have done what I did there as Town but I totally could have. You attacked us for trying to bring a low content slot into the limelight.

Yeah I mean I'd like to say that I noticed that something was off about how you did it, but it's not like I was SRing you or even Isis that much at that point

[MURDERCAT]

You have to go for high risk high reward plays when you're behind plus. Being behind is not where you spend shots on apparent VTs because oh god what if it's actually a cop and not a VT who reread night one.

Anyway, it was miserable to attempt to navigate a setup this townsided. I wouldn't play this setup again.

It's actually too bad you shot exorcists then as the track would have looked really good for you and we'd be more skeptical of the apparent cobra guilty.

[MURDERCAT]

I kinda feel like scum played better than town this game but I might be biased by my own opinions of my personal performance.

[MURDERCAT]

Like even mechanically I think you outplayed us, it's just that the way the roles worked out allowed us to win through it.

We had 2/4 cop guilties which is pretty reasonable with 33% odds for each one and our 3 vig shots hit 2 townies.

And I think had gamma not fake claimed we still would have had to go to Elo to win because I think I would have pushed for xof to be elimed first.

[MURDERCAT]

But I'm not sure this setup concept is good at offering something that isn't better offered by either a closed setup or nonrandom open setup.

I feel this way about a lot of semi open setups

[MURDERCAT]

I too think a special exception to the rules should be made to allow battle mage to be killed by scum multiple times

[MURDERCAT]

How would I win that limlo? I come in at best less TRed than the other suspect on the chopping block

I agree there is no chance you win it, just using that as an example of how well you day played.

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah that looks pretty dumb though if it turns out to be 3 tricksters instead. That's why I think scum should have full setup info.

[MURDERCAT]

Having all the PRs on one slot increases swing, but doesn't affect balance. The faction that is at a disadvantage wants more swing. We just saw that the setup was probably 3 Joats 3 trickster and I felt we were disadvantaged cause that seemed nuts. Therefore swing is desirable.

100% agree with this logic

[MURDERCAT]

4 witch hunters seems more likely the way I read the setup, but I could be wrong

I think you would have to simulate it (or like actually do math) to be sure as there is some dependence across selections. e.g. if you start with 2 tricksters and 9 points, you can't get 4 WH's.

[MURDERCAT]

1 2 3 4
70 942 4431 4557

Unless I screwed something up, they are basically equal.

[MURDERCAT]

Can I be a 50% jester treestump or 50% survivor treestump?

[MURDERCAT]

Gamma actually understanding the setup was a scum tell

[MURDERCAT]

I think it was less about your play and more that BM had pushed you so hard you were going to be an obvious target.

[MURDERCAT]

FWIW I was pretty sure she was too and was mostly trying to get an inno so that I felt comfortable moving people away from taylor on D2.

[MURDERCAT]

Taylor called it right?

[MURDERCAT]

[MURDERCAT]

@Brass PTs?

[MURDERCAT]

I hope that cobra sees why FMPOV that looked like a huge scum slip and a fake guilty

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah same, I don't think I realized into that night. Ah well it worked out

[MURDERCAT]

and talk about your tonal read on isis?

I would have to do a real meta read to say anything meaningful about this. But on D1 of our game together Isis seemed much more casual with her posts. This game she reads as more calculated to me, like we are getting her second or third thought/rephrasing instead of her first if you know what I mean? I don't know if this is scum indicative, or maybe she is just taking this game more seriously, or maybe she just hasn't been drunk since this game started but I have noticed it and I will probably meta read on it sometime on D1. Of course I did feel that her posting style was off that game too so maybe I'm being unfair

This my new tell for you Isis