Open 791 | Forest Fire | Game Over

[Morning Tweet]

I dreamt i was an arsonist..

was really scary. Fortunately for me, it lasted only for a moment!

hi Ydrasse hi Mena hi Pine hi Dunny hi Gamma hi Guilty hi clidd ! !!!!!!!!!!

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Farren

(　･`ω･´)

[Morning Tweet]

I dreamt i was an arsonist..

was really scary. Fortunately for me, it lasted only for a moment!

hi Ydrasse hi Mena hi Pine hi Dunny hi Gamma hi Guilty hi clidd ! !!!!!!!!!!

I actually rolled scum in the original roll of this setup and it was very scary indeed!

VOTE: Farren
did you roll scum again?

I see what the role PM mistake was. we had a three man team!

It's okay, i didnt retain the arson tendencies. I worry Farren may have though

[Morning Tweet]

Looks like morning tweet is back at it again with her scum strategy of pocketing everyone through being cute

VOTE: morning tweet

(ﾉω-｀)

[Morning Tweet]

Looks like morning tweet is back at it again with her scum strategy of pocketing everyone through being cute

VOTE: morning tweet

(ﾉω-｀)

Morning, I really don't know what his kawaii face means, I'm sorry

ah, that is my "looking dejectedly off to the left whilst placing a hand over my face" face

The meaning is: I have almost died in several games due to players (seriously) accusing me of doing cuteness as a scum strat (and died in 1 or 2), and i just relived them all for a brief moment in that one sad face

i can do it to the right too but i dont have a left arm to use

(´-ω-)

[Morning Tweet]

I have a very solid plan for winning this game

we treestump all the strongest players so the arsonists can't incinerate them, they carry from beyond the grave, we win?

[Morning Tweet]

morning tweet don't let anyone ever tell you to stop using cute faces.

thank u Ydrasse it means a lot (^∀^)

oh no, I didn't mean to make morning sad, now I feel terrible

how can I make it up to you? voting someone? a lovely compliment? setting fire to some trees for you? a bit of fruit?

noooOOOO don't feel bad, it was just for one face! Two since i felt the need to demonstrate i could turn its direction!

............fruit would be nice thanks

[Morning Tweet]

I would point out that open-wolfing is a new look i dont think i've seen from Mena before (in my very tiny sample size), but I'm too distracted by my lovely gift. (and im guessing it means nothing)

OH by the way

I have a very solid plan for winning this game

we treestump all the strongest players so the arsonists can't incinerate them, they carry from beyond the grave, we win?

um, this plan was meant to be secret morning, how did you get into my safe

Was that really what you were thinking or was this a joke

My first idea was to prioritize exiling players who are the best at town (and yeah, have a decent chance of flipping scum sure) so we win both ways. maybe that isn't exactly rocket science though

[Morning Tweet]

I townread Ydrasse and will stake my life to protect him

Would me mentioning that Ydrasse is a great scum player sway your opinion, or are you rock solid

[Morning Tweet]

uh... i don't know if i follow along with why it's a good idea to even potentially vote out townreads?

can someone explain this for me pls.

Not townreads -- people who have tend to have good reads

but this playerlist is all around really good so idk if that changes much

[Morning Tweet]

no i just don't get why people would view it like that?

like, treestumps can be burned down, right? you get the perspective of a confirmed player if they're a treestump but rob them of a vote. and even then they can be removed eventually, anyways.

p-edit: huh. in my mind i was thinking of it more as a failsafe sort of thing rather than trying to... make use of it like that?

I did not realize tree-stumps could be burnt down. Although i think that'd likely be a waste of time so if they actually felt the need to waste a kill on dead players that'd probably be positive for us

Already stated this was a bit puffed up, thanks for your input though

O

[Morning Tweet]

regarding the idea of eliminating strong town players - I agree that there might be a side benefit if we tree stump someone with good reads, but when I rolled scum I was thinking about how a lot of players in this PL are high WIM tryhards and going to be difficult to convincingly scumread/eliminate. so I'd be skeptical of letting people get away with votes just because the consequences aren't too bad if we hit town - that still allows scum to get a step closer to wincon, and could give them more room to justify/excuse their votes. If we're voting to eliminate someone I think voters still need to pressed to explain why that player in particular is likely to be scum, I wouldn't be down for policying somebody solely because we think they'd still be good as a tree stump.

Of course! i do not want to policy strong players. The only practical application i can think of is maybe if we're stuck between two scummy players and need tie breaker reasoning. And also i realized that doused players who get stumped stay doused anyway so we aren't exactly protecting them come maybe day 3 day 4

[Morning Tweet]

Farren doesn't look very friendly and the tone presented so far is being more questioning, which I do not assimilate to scum.

I think he would care about image maintenance and post filler-friendly things as scum in this initial stage.

That's interesting and not a bad thought, although you could make the opposite argument and say scum would be more inclined to look busy with questioning, "solving", n what not

@clidd - I think the couple of issues I have with Farren are that a few of his questions don't seem likely to advance the game in a useful way and are either blendy or stirring things - mainly 20 and 72. I also think the soft defense of Ydrasse may be a WK

Purpose of 20 - an excuse for engaging clidd, specifically. I think I'm going to need extra interactions with him to be able to read him properly.
Purpose of 72 - I didn't like the confidence level that 70 implied - at least if the post was sincere. But I did like the ... brashness, I guess? I was trying to figure out a way to divorce the two, figure out which is more indicative. Based on Gamma's answer, I'd say the brashness - which is a small plus.

As far as defending Ydrasse goes: describing her as "Friendly" was not a defense. It was more a probe on Menalque to see if he was advocating for "Friendly = Scummy," - which he was not. The only other post - 62 - yes, that's a small plus to Ydrasse, as it's something I'd noticed as well. Why would you think that constitutes white knighting?

So if I'm getting this right, you asked clidd the question about his opening in 20 with the explicit purpose of getting extra interactions with him?

And not just that, but describing Ydrasse as friendly was actually to see whether or not Mena was equivocating friendly with scummy.

...i wish i had that much direction in my opening posts

[Morning Tweet]

WAT

helo

[Morning Tweet]

WAT

helo

hi

do you think clidd might be a villain here?

lemme see i played a game as scum against clidd town and a town game against clidd scum

I dont have any bad feels from his posts but i didnt in partition, either

He has unique takes on a lot of things (like saying scum!Ydrasse wouldn't vote him or Farren being inquisitive suggests town), and it's tricky for me to tell if he's coming from a good place or not

[Morning Tweet]

FWIW i kind of doubt "relaxedness" or laying back is a clidd scumtell, i dont recall him playing like that in Zoey's extraordinary mafia.

he had decently big posts and he got quite excited actually. I think in particular his big response while under elim pressure might've saved him (although maybe that's a different topic)

[Morning Tweet]

hia ydrasse

As scum, would you say you feel pressured to generate content, even if you don't think you would have any as town?

[Morning Tweet]

I'm cognitively fatigued after my last two games, so I don't intend to do wallposts here.

Mena, what do you currently give the odds that clidd is scum trying to justify being off-meta with this comment, versus being town (or even scum!) who just wants to play more low key

[Morning Tweet]

I think morning tweet is town.

WOAHWOAWOA you're pocketing me already?

(¬ω¬)

im gonna accept this townread, but ill have you know im onto u

I'm cognitively fatigued after my last two games, so I don't intend to do wallposts here.

Mena, what do you currently give the odds that clidd is scum trying to justify being off-meta with this comment, versus being town (or even scum!) who just wants to play more low key

I really don't know, morning, that's why I'm asking him.

At rand there's a 75% chance it's the truth, but I'd like to be sure against the 25% chance it's not.

Well see the reason i asked is, it feels a bit unlikely to the point where the effort being put in seems quite greater than the odds of it actually being true.

I just had a brief moment where i felt you were making this out to be much more important than it is, for whatever reason. But of course, if we don't talk abt stuff like this, we don't have content. So fair enough i suppose.

[Morning Tweet]

i would never! I just think you are pretty strongly like town so far. maybe I'm just drastically underestimating your scumgame which someone said was very good and who I generally respect, but you feel super similar to the last couple of games when you were town so I just wanna like townbin you and not worry about it

also, I'd feel so guilty for pocketing your tiny batface and would never be able to keep it up all game. look at those innocent, trusting eyes and those big flicky ears!

**

err, maybe? but like idk if there are playerlists where that just wouldn't be interrogated very much and people would just go like "ahh, cool, fair enough!"... and so if he was scum and thought town were at least reasonably likely to do that it's not a lot of effort for a potentially high reward. but like this is really all just speculation that's maybe not that useful until clidd answers me or decides he's hard committing on not answering me which is like a whole other thing to then try and sort

my take: I'm not good at the skilled parts of scum, like directing town into miselims or like PR speculation. i am okay at appearing townie but I myself don't know why so is that really that good?

awh ok. im holding you to this now-- dont break my heart! (>ω<)

I see what you're saying a bit better now. Even though i personally seriously doubt it's alignment indictative, the discussion we're creating is nice. I think in particular i find 167 pretty convincing clidd isn't lying here

[Morning Tweet]

Farren, do you have any reads yet?

Leaning Town on clidd and you. Gun to my head, I'd say Dunnstral and GuiltyLion for scum - but my D1 read quality tends to be utter garbage. At least in my last game, the scum were all hiding in the middle of my thoughts by the time D1 came to a close. People who were being active, but not *really* active - people who were participating, but not shining. Probably means I should be looking more at ... Gamma Emerald, Ydrasse, Morning Tweet. And I'm forgetting someone ... Pine. I'd put Pine in the bottom bucket. And I know why I'm doing that, and I hate it.

So: let Dunnstral and GuiltyLion percolate for the time being, poke them from time to time, work on the middle three. Wait for Pine to become more present.

VOTE: Morning Tweet

Going off of memory, Morning Tweet, you've made less of an impression on me than Gamma and Ydrasse, despite you scumreading me. Is that a me thing or a you thing, do you think?

Clidd I believe has a higher chance of being town from the way he's responding to Mena/GL -- I'm near certain he's genuinely frustrated (177), his reads remind me of previous games with him..

Pine was not present for the first day of the previous game I played with him, i believe this is normal.

Sometimes i give a ton of reads at the beginning, but this game i haven't really as much because i feel i'll be biased to townreading those who have been active thus far. I'm waiting for a more complete picture. Oh, also it's not a scumread I just retained my vote on you without commenting on it to give the illusion of extra pressure (i have a fear of having early scumreads)

UNVOTE:

I think ydrasse is probably town.

Menalque what's your reasoning here? she feels way more casual/chill/friendly than I remember in either her scumgame or her towngame, I don't know how to read it

I noticed this the other day and i made a hypothesis that Ydrasse feels more pressured to give early reads / content as scum. But there was a town game where she gave a big reads run down within the first 200 posts. so i do not know

[Morning Tweet]

I don't follow, what do you mean by good questions? Like you don't think my questions were good?

I don't agree with you that Menalque is obvtown here and I think the reason you gave for it doesn't feel all that rigorous, which I would expect more from you. As either alignment Menalque can speak genuinely about your meta. It looks to me like you were happy with the conclusion he reached in 175 and townread him back as a result, I can't grok why you'd be confident he's town off that.

I also don't vibe with scumreads on the two lowest activity slots on the basis of PoE here, it's very likely that one of the more active posters is scum trying to establish a good foothold in the game

Clidd has a tendency to reciprocate townreads, I've noticed. I wonder if it's a towntell of his, id have to check. But he does it very often from what i can recall

Why is it likely for scum to be in the actives as opposed to not?

Very active posters: Mena, clidd
Very present posters: Farren, Morning, Ydrasse, GL
<10 posts: Gamma, Dunnstral, Pine

This reminds me of what someone would say if one of their arsonist pals had a lower post count. but you wouldn't dare burn down this lovely forest, would you? there has never been a guarantee in my games that a highly active slot was scum trying to deepwolf. In fact, it hasnt happened often at all.

[Morning Tweet]

Farren, do you have any reads yet?

Leaning Town on clidd and you. Gun to my head, I'd say Dunnstral and GuiltyLion for scum - but my D1 read quality tends to be utter garbage. At least in my last game, the scum were all hiding in the middle of my thoughts by the time D1 came to a close. People who were being active, but not *really* active - people who were participating, but not shining. Probably means I should be looking more at ... Gamma Emerald, Ydrasse, Morning Tweet. And I'm forgetting someone ... Pine. I'd put Pine in the bottom bucket. And I know why I'm doing that, and I hate it.

FWIW i do like how you're using your vote to sort me rather than vote Dunn or GL (who hadn't had recent posts at the time) + you scumread them but feel scum is more likely to be someone you're missing in the middle. Does seem to imply you're actually trying to vote who has the highest chance of being scum, if that makes sense.

And Scum!Menalque does not approach me directly, like he did here by approaching the subject clearly. He would slowly look at my behavior and use the lack of characteristic features of my towngame to develop suspicions in me without compromising much.

Reminds me of the read on Ydrasse's vote, somewhat.

This is somewhat of a stretch, i feel clidd may possibly just wants Mena to be town, so he began with that conclusion and imagined what town!Mena's mindset is and then applied it. Trying to explain townreads is like that sometimes. i am finding the lack of backing down on this read despite GL contesting it to be somewhat towny. I think that clidd truly believes in the tell, strongly, and doesn't get why GL isn't getting it. Perhaps scum!clidd backs down, or at least makes the read weaker?

After thinking for a while (on relax mode on), I just came to my first serious read: Menalque obvtown.

Alternatively, scum!clidd sees that Mena townreads him, so he mega townbins Mena just so he can pocket someone who townreads him back. Perhaps this is what GL sees. I'll keep thinking

[Morning Tweet]

:o

[Morning Tweet]

There’s a lot of meta talk on the last few pages that is going way over my head

I'm interpreting the last few pages as "clidd doing clidd things, he's probably town"

I think Mena has an above rand% chance of being town but I dont feel the same way abt him as i do clidd + it's easy for me to say that when half the game doesnt have too much content in comparison yet

Farren and Ydrasse i think i could also foresee getting excited about them being town but we're not there yet

so like

I think Morning is town.
I think Clidd is town.
I think ydrasse is probably town.
I think GL is probably town, but actually maybe a little weaker than the other three.

Gamma, pine, dunn all null.

Farren is still bit more towards scum, I think. But if my townreads are right, then I think this is winning already.

I wonder if scum Mena feels the need to get a solve going so early. At the moment I'm thinking it is more likely Mena is very eager town. Let's suppose that he is.

Spoiler: aftermath

What makes you suppose he's right on all his townreads?

I think Morning is town.
I think Clidd is town.
I think ydrasse is probably town.
I think GL is probably town, but actually maybe a little weaker than the other three.

Gamma, pine, dunn all null.

This seems opportunistic if farren is town.

I don't agree with you that Menalque is obvtown here and I think the reason you gave for it doesn't feel all that rigorous, which I would expect more from you. As either alignment Menalque can speak genuinely about your meta. It looks to me like you were happy with the conclusion he reached in 175 and townread him back as a result, I can't grok why you'd be confident he's town off that.

I also don't vibe with scumreads on the two lowest activity slots on the basis of PoE here,

it's very likely that one of the more active posters is scum trying to establish a good foothold in the game

Dunn pretty directly opposes Mena and GL more indirectly does by saying he doesn't find Mena obvtown and saying it's likely an active poster is scum.

@Guilty

, i'll add this on to my other question in 232, who were you referring to as the "more active posters" when you said one is very likely to be scum?

[Morning Tweet]

Hehe, looks like my task today might end up being sorting clidd and then desperately trying to convince everyone he's town, or perhaps instead i'll end up agreeing.

I think town clidd feels a desire to reciprocate townreads. The playing relaxed comment in NAI. Let's see, what else.. I think his read on Mena seems stretchy or contrived because of the first reason.

Morning is interpreting my behavior correctly.

So she is very good at reading me or has information about my alignment (scum). But I am more inclined to the town side, considering that her posts in general are giving me a good feeling by tone (no, I will not do a dissertation to explain why).

There's just this repeated theme of clidd posting things that seem like poor sketches town thought patterns that are actually unlikely for me to think in that way as town.
This post is actually a logical failing that may be scum indicative. MT posted analysis of clidd's behavior, not just a summary of clidd's alignment; he's conflating the two.

If you give me 3x+4=28, and I say "it's eight", you can say Isis knows prealgebra, or she has an answer key. If I say
3x+4-4=28-4
3x=24
3x/3=24/3
x=8
You don't say "Isis either knows prealgebra or has an answer key". It's demonstrated I know prealgebra whether or not I have an answer key.
If clidd read Tweet's reasoning and the analysis was sound he should be able to say Tweet is good at reading him, unqualified. He's sprinkling "unless they're scum" into his posting as one often does as scum and has managed to do it gratuitously here.

You theorize that the "unless they're scum" comment is basically a scum habit he didn't think too much about -- since if the intent of 249 was "She analyzed my behaviour correctly", then it makes no sense to attach a "well it's not correct if she's scum though" line. However, I think from the way he words the second part of 249, "she either reads me good or is scum", it implies he isn't focused on the way I got there. He just knows I am correct.

So more or less, despite me writing out an attempted solution to the problem:

This is somewhat of a stretch, i feel clidd may possibly just wants Mena to be town, so he began with that conclusion and imagined what town!Mena's mindset is and then applied it. Trying to explain townreads is like that sometimes. i am finding the lack of backing down on this read despite GL contesting it to be somewhat towny. I think that clidd truly believes in the tell, strongly, and doesn't get why GL isn't getting it. Perhaps scum!clidd backs down, or at least makes the read weaker?

After thinking for a while (on relax mode on), I just came to my first serious read: Menalque obvtown.

Alternatively, scum!clidd sees that Mena townreads him, so he mega townbins Mena just so he can pocket someone who townreads him back. Perhaps this is what GL sees. I'll keep thinking

I believe clidd has focused on just the answer:

Clidd I believe has a higher chance of being town from the way he's responding to Mena/GL -- I'm near certain he's genuinely frustrated (177), his reads remind me of previous games with him..

He words it like I have "interpreted him correctly", but i think that largely regardless of the reasoning, he would have said that as long as I gave him a townread. So I think you're in the right vein of reasoning here, but I am yet unsure if that means he is scum.

[Morning Tweet]

He words it like I have "interpreted him correctly", but

I'm hearing "he scumposted but imagine if he had townposted instead!"

As for reciprocating townreads, scum are naturally incentivized to reciprocate townreads so it's NAI behavior at best (to be fair, maybe also NAI behavior at worst, for him.)

I'm saying the intent behind that post doesnt seem like "Morning knows me well and laid it out exactly" as much as "Yup Morning is right I'm town so shes good unless shes scum". He may have sorta made it sound like the former in his first line but the second betrays what he is actually thinking

its not a great look but it is conceivable to me that he'd do it as town too, especially if he were to currently be experiencing frustration due to being scumread. I guess perhaps he can be scum latching onto my read and just worded it sloppily. but i can still see viably see my interpretation

reciprocating is NAI imo cause clidd does it a lot and also I personally feel the urge to do it just as much as town

[Morning Tweet]

Tweet what page of the game have you started reading clidd's post with a hope and skew to find town

Cause I feel like it is some page

You mean where did my townread start, or are u implying i feel some need to defend clidd so i searched thru somewhere to spin up a townread?

I more or less think the points brought up against clidd so far have been faulty (the relaxed thing and now his wording of my read on him) -- and i cannot help but townlean his frustration due to the scumreads these brought on. That's probably the best i can explain it at the moment.

I do not know yet if i would go to the end of the world to defend him but i may as well speak about the case thus far and see where we go from there

[Morning Tweet]

Wouldnt it be weirder if clidd does scummy stuff to the point where he gets exiled, but i maintain his innocence throughout the whole day in spite of all of it, and then he flips green? Like I knew somehow

him flipping red would more or less sound just about like my read accuracy to me

but yeah i suppose we're not going anywhere

[Morning Tweet]

well hi there!

[Morning Tweet]

Well if you skip past some clidd posts it's probably less dense

Those are the main factor inhibiting me from wanting to reread, but considering you already know clidds alignment, maybe you won't have that problem

[Morning Tweet]

I'm slightly interested in how you used two posts to reiterate the fact you're a tree and don't need to be worried about getting eliminated -- if you're an experienced player, then trying to forge a newbie townslip by claiming tree immediately would probably be the way to go

i just-- you realize that trees are stumped after death, meaning you don't have to worry about wasting time on a reread since you'll always be helpful. you clearly know what you're talking about

wouldn't you then also have realized that trees shouldn't claim?

[Morning Tweet]

I've played more than 5 games so I wouldn't call myself a newb. I think you're being rude to the firefighter who could be me since they're also a Tree at heart.

i figured you weren't new. and alrighty, fair enough!

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Morning Tweet]

it's very likely that one of the more active posters is scum trying to establish a good foothold in the game

I suppose i interpreted this differently than how you intended, maybe. The only two players i found to have a remarkable amount of posts were clidd and Mena. I wouldn't have considered anyone else to be an unreasonable amount that suggests "trying to establish a good foothold"

[Morning Tweet]

I feel you're misrepresenting me in the last paragraph here, I didn't say "highly active" or anything about deepwolfing, I was making the point that someone who's actually playing the game is probably scum, because I felt potentially scum!clidd was avoiding causing any friction with people actually present in the thread. And as a rejoinder I'll ask you how often do you see in your games the entire scumteam with <10 posts by page 10?

I have played a surprising amount of games where the scumteam is just the easiest / lowest posting answer. although it isn't always, it is certainly a valid possibility and I start to entertain it more and more as i collect townreads

A few games I can remember where the whole scumteam was the bottom activity players: A werewolf/vampire/warlock, a schadd's mysterybox i played, and hectic's kill switch -- the entire scumteam in all of these games were the bottom posters or just about.

there was also beeboy's why gun?? but it was less about scum being inactive, more them just posting exclusively fluff whereas the rest of the game played

I suppose my point is that scum can viably all be in the lower activity players and there is no guarantee of an active one, so I was somewhat interested in you saying it was "very likely" an active poster was scum. But if you meant the whole playerlist besides Pine/Dunn then i suppose that is fair enough

[Morning Tweet]

UNVOTE:

That's my scumread attempt for the day. I spent it. what am i supposed to do now

[Morning Tweet]

no

I'm pretty sure the error was that there was 3 scum. GL and I both had Farren as our partner. that's why i made the face at farren during my RVS vote (・ω<)

[Morning Tweet]

I feel like Morning Tweet should be calling me out for my lack of presence in this game or something

It reminded me of Silent Star, however, you were super present during RVS of silent star. My running scum theory is that you feel the need to get your foot in the door at the start of the game, take a single stance (like your scumread on midway), and then hang back for a while

Your pattern this game hasnt quite matched that yet so im watching n waiting c;

[Morning Tweet]

[
119: Exactly what I mean in Farren, Morning Tweet! But why don't you just call him out on it instead of mentioning it in this shady way?

I thought it was a very thoughtful, methodical approach to playing the game. But i have no reason to believe Farren only does this as scum.

at the moment (or at least during that post) i was honestly taken back by the deliberateness of his posts. There was part of me that goes "Really, you had all that planned out?" but I dont quite see why scum!Farren would feel the need to over explain his minor interactions.

And im guessing from the way Farren explains in some of his later posts, he has a tendency to play like this (although I havent checked)

[Morning Tweet]

I mean if you think it's a forged townslip you need to murder it, I still think the slot is scummy. I bought into it. But maybe I shouldn't.

For some reason I feel like 342 is a scummy post if it's not catching scum but I don't feel very able to articulate why.
Probably how it's such a stinging accusation so gently worded?
Which might be a tweet thing and have to do with me scumreading her every game, but it might not have to do with that, what can I do about it.

It's funny how i liked clidd but tea leaves' over emphasis on being a tree + explicitly claiming tree just feels weird to me.

Essentially i could tell they werent a new player, so i wondered if they were going for the newish player townslip approach. Scum has a lot to gain from townslipping a tree claim, town doesnt really have much reason to emphasize it. Tea was like "Hah I didnt think I'd be a tree, but I am that's nice! ... Hah I didnt want to reread but I'm a tree so that's nice!" twoish posts apart

Town doesnt really need to do that other than for WIFOM I guess which is what they claimed to be doing. So idk.

I love your line about gently wording a stinging accusation. describes it perfectly

[Morning Tweet]

you're complimenting me! I'm attacking you!

im the kind of player who will apologize for playing bad if other ppl are pushing me

Town doesnt really need to do that other than for WIFOM I guess which is what they claimed to be doing. So idk.

No that's not what I was trying to do. I was just claiming I was a townie and Tree is the flavor for townies in this game.

Orly

hmmmm

[Morning Tweet]

Mm! A bunch of people concluded the tea leaves "slip" was NAI (namely Guilty and Farren if i recall right). If tea felt comfortable claiming Tree immediately, that implies to me they didn't have a great grasp of the setup -- they probably just figured tree was vanilla townie and therefore you were either a tree or mafia.

However, had tea leaves rolled arsonist, then they don't have knowledge of the whole tree mechanic until they look at the setup. They may neglect to look at the setup immediately (meaning they wouldn't have opened with claiming tree) or maybe they did look at the setup. If they did look at the setup, they would have noticed there's a PR, which again might have dissuaded them from claiming tree immediately. However, if they are going to decide to claim tree, then that's a conscious decision to fake a townslip imo

I think if all of this is correct, then tea leaves has a lesser chance of flipping arsonist because I think it's more likely town tea leaves thinks the entire town is trees rather than scum tea leaves tries to forge a townslip

[Morning Tweet]

i also did an Isis writeup that makes me want to believe Isis is town but it's meta so

Isis -

I feel like Isis played with little to no direction on the first day in purgatory (scum). She posted 80-90% fluff, and when it wasn't fluff it was still mostly one-liner questions. She condensed her effort into one or two walls and she did a garner fair bit of towncred for looking agendaless and for making those big effort posts if i recall correct

I dont have total confidence that is 100% how she plays scum but her play there and here is like total night and day. It may be because that setup was a lot less balanced so maybe she felt inclined to play less seriously

I checked through crossfire next (scum again). Specifically i looked just at posts in the first half of the game, it feels different to here but I'm not sure why. She doesn't have any posts that are emotive, she speaks pretty much matter of fact. In this game she's been extremely hyped up by her clidd read (and subsequently disappointed), conflicted/frustrated about my alignment, and whatever the OMGUS bit with tea leaves is. Some of that goes into fluff territory like purgatory but it doesn't come close to dominating her posts like it did in that game

i think Isis enjoys playing scum less and maybe the excessive fluff posting or exclusively seriously toned posts are a manifestation of that (She had a few non serious posts in crossfire, but they were more like "This made me laugh" or "Who did you roll scum with?")

Why did i devote so much time to the Isis read despite it being meta and therefore garbage? i was hoping modding a game with her in it will give me 100% read accuracy (since previously I'm maybe 1 for 3)

(((it didn't though)))

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: Tree of Life

Tree of Life

Isis - Menalque was constantly posting townie things and trying to get into people's heads and learn more about them. Isis also looks like she's just writing down her thoughts as they come to her naturally.

Giant Sequoia

Ydrasse - Town vibes all around. Her friendly tone and energy I thought looked a lil fakey at first but then I realized she'd probably be scared of appearing that way if she was scum and after looking through her meta I was right that she doesn't show it as scum but does as a townie sometimes.

Cherry Blossom

Farren - I can't really tell. I think all of his talking about his own meta is townie but his seriousness and tone makes me feel uneasy.
Morning Tweet - She has townie moments but some of her reads and approaches to suspecting people look like she's trying not to step on toes even while criticizing stuff.

Yellow Cacti

Gamma Emerald - 112 I dislike because maybe he felt obliged to ask for more even though what else is he looking for after that explanation? He came in later to ask some questions but didn't give a lot of opinions of his own.
Dunnstral - Doesn't seem to care and is self aware of that just need more. 304 I disliked as his only thing to say when he came in and it feels weird?

Weeping Tree

GuiltyLion - Feels off to me and haven't seen anything that gives me townie vibes. Some of his reads don't look real like the early one on Gamma.

Pine

Pine - Pine.

Bouncing off this cause lazy

Yes to Isis town

I hypothesized that Ydrasse as scum feels a greater need to contribute early, but tbh I dont know about it. Maybe. I kind of see town but I also can see her being scum too -- There hasn't been a lot of content thus far and it's possible Ydrasse as scum just doesnt have a lot to say

Thinking the way Farren speaks is just him. I think there was one or two posts I liked from him early. I see he interpreted the tea leaves' 'townslip' similarly to how I did at first. Wonder what he'll think now

Yup that sounds like me alright

Gamma i have a couple games i could use as a frame of reference to read off of. I would say he is similar to the town one thus far but it's not hard to fake nor do I know if it's AI yet

Dunny played pretty hard in RVS last time I saw him as scum, but then spent the rest of the day inactive with one pocket/vanity scumread. This game is that minus the RVS part. I played a town game with him where he was very active and solvey and pushy etc. I wonder what switches Dunn on.. I would hypothesize his alignment does but he himself calls me out for not calling him out on this in 411. But then again that's a total scum move to grab cred via WIFOM so I'm not going to give him points for that.

My first town experience with GL, he locktowned me early and we mindmelded quite a lot. My second, I couldn't figure out if it was him or someone else who was scum and sadly I chose incorrectly. So no help from past games. In this game in particular it felt to me he was shading the active slots for no reason, although it seems quite likely I misinterpreted him combined with him using somewhat too strong phrasing. It's possible he did that on purpose but I doubt it. I wonder if his Ydrasse push is genuine. I agree that she feels different to my last game with her (460). I am not willing to townread him yet

agree on pine

Spoiler: Reads (rated by above or below Pine)

Isis, tea leaves
>>
Farren
>
Gamma

--- Pine Line ---

Ydrasse
>
GuiltyLion
>
Dunnstral

Pine is actually a little lower probably but i wanted to make the joke and it didn't work as well if i didn't put him in the middle

[Morning Tweet]

My first town experience with GL, he locktowned me early and we mindmelded quite a lot. My second, I couldn't figure out if it was him or someone else who was scum and sadly I chose incorrectly. So no help from past games.

In the game you chose incorrectly was he scum or town? And why isn't that help you can compare how he is to those games maybe.

o i forgot to specify, we were TvT both times.

My point is i had very different experiences with him (or at least how I read him). My perception of him sticks out in my mind better than his play itself in those games -- and since I got two different results even though he was town in both games, I don't really have anything helpful to use from those experiences. It might be worthwhile to note the game we both started from the beginning I townread him pretty hard, but the one I replaced in to like 70 pages I did not

I know Guilty is a great town player but I don't know much about his scum game. I could try n do detailed meta analysis on those past games if i really wanted to but i dont think it'd be all that helpful and quite frankly not that fun. i think meta has its place in some instances but I like to references games i was personally in, and with these two, I have nothing useful that i know of

[Morning Tweet]

Dunnstral -

Basically no content yet. He has 10 posts, but around half of them aren't super game related. I'll grab the ones that are

What makes you suppose he's right on all his townreads?

I think Morning is town.
I think Clidd is town.
I think ydrasse is probably town.
I think GL is probably town, but actually maybe a little weaker than the other three.

Gamma, pine, dunn all null.

This seems opportunistic if farren is town.

Why does it seem opportunistic, dunn?

You put all the low posters in your null pile, which is actually just your scum pile but you're not calling it that

This combined with GL's scum in the actives comment made me wonder if there's an arsonist who felt the need to push back against Mena's early townlist. Dunn directly goes into a contrarian mode against Mena, whereas Guilty more subtlely implied there's scum in the active players (Mena was townreading almost all the activeish players).

I am curious as to why the only thing in the thread Dunn opted to comment at the time on was this. What made it the main thing that caught his eye, i mean. I'd like to talk about it more but I'm actually kind of missing what his point is too. What does putting the low posters in null and Farren in scum have to do with being opportunistic?

Spoiler: me sitting here with 5 posts while clidd has 102 and is pushing me but he's getting pushed instead:

I feel like Morning Tweet should be calling me out for my lack of presence in this game or something

This feels like WIFOM!! But you're right

Dunn, although you may be correct that I should be one to notice you're gone -- what was the point of pointing it out in 411? Does it make you think im scummy? I struggle to find what the intention behind pointing it out was

Unless you're scum in which case it makes you look good in an indirect way. It's like a way to compensate for being inactive-- you point it out yourself before I or someone else does and it makes you look good for calling attention to something potentially scummy about yourself unprompted

[Morning Tweet]

GuiltyLion -

Spoiler:

do you have any thoughts on who might be scum so far btw?

PoE is telling Pine and Dunn. But it might change if they post something good.

eh I don't like this post

how is it PoE based off of like two RL days, especially when it gives you the two lurkiest slots

Personally, my town-lock on him is basically due to the depth of thought that he had about my meta, which sounded to me as extremely genuine.

how do you think scum!Menalque would approach your slot, his thoughts about your meta have nothing to do with his alignment.

this is a bs reason for a townread and I especially don't like that it comes right after he softened up on you

VOTE: clidd

I think these reads are probably objectively correct -- Clidd used "PoE" pretty generously and I think the intensity of clidd's townread was really high for what it was. However!

Unsure if it really made Guilty think clidd was scummy. The bolded sentence ever so slightly felt like overdoing it. I think that clidd reciprocating a townread isn't something he's more likely to do as scum. Of course I could possibly see town!Guilty disagreeing with me on that, totally. But i do wonder if maybe this is a fake push

I don't follow, what do you mean by good questions? Like you don't think my questions were good?

I don't agree with you that Menalque is obvtown here and I think the reason you gave for it doesn't feel all that rigorous,

which I would expect more from you.

As either alignment Menalque can speak genuinely about your meta. It looks to me like you were happy with the conclusion he reached in 175 and townread him back as a result, I can't grok why you'd be confident he's town off that.

I also don't vibe with scumreads on the two lowest activity slots on the basis of PoE here, it's very likely that one of the more active posters is scum trying to establish a good foothold in the game

The bolded again kind of feels like Guilty is trying to connect what is i think is true (Clidd's reason for townreading Mena is weak) with a conclusion it sort of feels like GL wants (Clidd is scummy). Why would clidd's reasoning be better as town?

Again i can also see town!Guilty pushing the mismatch between Clidd's reasoning and confidence level in good faith. I suppose I just might be seeing it differently

The last sentence is one of the very first things that snapped me out of RVS posting. Much appreciated! I ask more about it here and to get some clarification:

Clidd has a tendency to reciprocate townreads, I've noticed. I wonder if it's a towntell of his, id have to check. But he does it very often from what i can recall

Why is it likely for scum to be in the actives as opposed to not?

the context for this was clidd saying he scumreads Dunn and Pine, and me calling him on that. I still think Gamma's town, so unless clidd is exactly right, then there's a scum in the more active posters.

I feel you're misrepresenting me in the last paragraph here, I didn't say "highly active" or anything about deepwolfing, I was making the point that someone who's actually playing the game is probably scum, because I felt potentially scum!clidd was avoiding causing any friction with people actually present in the thread. And as a rejoinder I'll ask you how often do you see in your games the entire scumteam with <10 posts by page 10?

GL reveals by actives he more meant "Not Gamma/Pine/Dunn", which makes much more sense than how i interpreted it. I don't think Guilty's intention was to shade the active slots, although i still disagree with his dislike of clidd putting Pine/Dunn in PoE.

I do wonder if that's all my interpretation of Guilty has been so far -- a fundamental disagreement about clidd which causes Guilty's analysis of clidd to seem in bad faith to me. Carrying on!

I don't like that Ydrasse pops in on page 12 and doesn't really bother to comment about clidd at all

idk I like tea leaves entrance, especially the point about Isis reaction to it being genuine - I had some reservations about Menalque/Isis slot but I think that read on it makes sense

VOTE: Ydrasse
I don't feel she's actually trying to solve

@Isis - yes she did, she readily gave a read on MT when prompted

I don't immediately hate the Ydrasse read. I'm unsure on her, im going back and forth. She's been a hard read for me so far

I think I agree with this view on the tea leaves entrance now.

yeah Farren's right, especially given tea saying that they were trying to claim townie. NAI when it's possible that tea leaves read the setup post as scum.

If tea had read the setup wouldnt they have realized that there is a role in addition to townie, and therefore been deterred from claiming townie instantly?

Her friendly tone and energy I thought looked a lil fakey at first but then I realized she'd probably be scared of appearing that way if she was scum and after looking through her meta I was right that she doesn't show it as scum but does as a townie sometimes.

can you cite the games you looked at? I've played with Ydrasse twice now (once where she was scum and once where she was town) and she feels completely different than both games.

She does feel somewhat different. She led with some pretty hefty reads in the game I played with her, and also a lot of analysis/questions in the scum game i checked out. She's less present here so far, but I dont know what to make of it yet.

In summary, strongly disagree with clidd analysis, it felt like possibly bad faith, but also I might just be in disagreement with GL on it which makes it look that way to me. The active players comment i BELIEVE was a misunderstanding on my part, it makes more sense the way GL explained it. I have no issues with his subsequent read on Ydrasse really. I'll need to check her out more. Not willing to eliminate guilty atm from what ive seen

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Morning Tweet]

Why did i devote so much time to the Isis read despite it being meta and therefore garbage? i was hoping modding a game with her in it will give me 100% read accuracy (since previously I'm maybe 1 for 3)

(((it didn't though)))

Meta's not garbage.

It's a tool. It doesn't produce foolproof results. But it can be indicative at times. Sometimes it can be indicative of the lengths people will go to to get results.

I was starting to waver on Isis; this makes me less inclined to do that.

I agree with you it isn't garbage. Meta absolutely destroys my scum game, or at least i assume it would cause I havent been scum in ages.

But i feel like when i use meta as reasoning for a read, it turns off a lot of people. That and sometimes it feels like meta is very interpretive, you can find things that prove your point while ignoring the rest if you're not careful (or if ur scum) -- and people are probably not going to hassle to do their own research so they largely just have your word to go off of.

It has its place though!

[Morning Tweet]

Gamma seemed to be playing in the perfect way to get himself killed and so i like want to go opposite and not kill him

er people don't die in this setup but yknow what i mean

Haha that reminds me of one of my previous games with him. Even i was able to create a good enough scumcase for him to be elimed (he was town i was not)

The way I remember him, he starts with some early fluff, he chimes in on a few things, he doesn't have time to make big posts so he makes small ones, he gets mistaken for scum by some at first, but gets eliminated a bit further down the line

But I mean his scum game could also be the same i dont think I've seen him as scum-- id have to check. This game in particular, though..

Spoiler:

I guess the Lion and Dunnstral are my picks for the arsonist right now because Gamma's last few posts were ok.
VOTE: GuiltyLion

Do you mind answering my question about your Farren read?

Ok MT. I like the opinion on Dunnstral and I agree with a lot of them.
I think I already did in my read list Gamma or did you want more?

I would like more, yes

Question for both Gamma Emerald and Dunnstral: neither of you have voted at all yet. Why not? We're over halfway through D1.

I am between 2 options rn, waiting to decide until I get something to push me one way or the other

I kinda like this stretch of posts

Tbh going through there's nothing i dislike, maybe a few gut town pings based on tone

[Morning Tweet]

It might be lazy but I want to town bucket the bat

This is unprecedented, isis -- are you sure?!

You've never let me go inside the town bucket before.. i was always stuck in the time-out corner

[Morning Tweet]

Dunny what do you think of my posts to you tho? I get Isis saying lurking is scummy isn't impressing you, but what! about!! my stuff!!!!

Spoiler: for Dunn

What makes you suppose he's right on all his townreads?

I think Morning is town.
I think Clidd is town.
I think ydrasse is probably town.
I think GL is probably town, but actually maybe a little weaker than the other three.

Gamma, pine, dunn all null.

This seems opportunistic if farren is town.

Why does it seem opportunistic, dunn?

You put all the low posters in your null pile, which is actually just your scum pile but you're not calling it that

This combined with GL's scum in the actives comment made me wonder if there's an arsonist who felt the need to push back against Mena's early townlist. Dunn directly goes into a contrarian mode against Mena, whereas Guilty more subtlely implied there's scum in the active players (Mena was townreading almost all the activeish players).

I am curious as to why the only thing in the thread Dunn opted to comment at the time on was this. What made it the main thing that caught his eye, i mean. I'd like to talk about it more but I'm actually kind of missing what his point is too. What does putting the low posters in null and Farren in scum have to do with being opportunistic?

me sitting here with 5 posts while clidd has 102 and is pushing me but he's getting pushed instead: kermit

I feel like Morning Tweet should be calling me out for my lack of presence in this game or something

This feels like WIFOM!! But you're right

Dunn, although you may be correct that I should be one to notice you're gone -- what was the point of pointing it out in 411? Does it make you think im scummy? I struggle to find what the intention behind pointing it out was

Unless you're scum in which case it makes you look good in an indirect way. It's like a way to compensate for being inactive-- you point it out yourself before I or someone else does and it makes you look good for calling attention to something potentially scummy about yourself unprompted

we could talk about one of the bolded questions if you want..

[Morning Tweet]

that's not true I townread you in purgatory cause you were a demon

Ok, i guess ill let that count..

[Morning Tweet]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY DANN

[Morning Tweet]

Tea leaves is the most controversial and confusing slot, maybe ever!

Or maybe that's just artifically inflated by the number of times Isis has unvoted and revoted them

I have no strong opinions about anything that has happened since i last posted. i will try again tomorrow but i really rewally wanna talk to Dunn.

Ydrasse seems rather comfortable I wonder if that makes her town. I still think Isis is town. I assume tea leaves is town but i haven't been following the most recent developments between them and Isis, so can I really be sure?

[Morning Tweet]

Morning Tweet are you trying to end our friendship

nYoooOOOO

You're probably wrong about tea though. Unless you had a revelation about her that i missed

but i hate tea leaves so much that i want to stump her and then cheat on her

Can't stump scum. Just kill them. What happened to that confidence about scum|tea leaves?

Isis do you subconsciously not even believe that tea is scum

(Nah I could see replacing elim with stump too. I don't think this means anything)

Based off my first 3 pages I feel like pine's current vote was cool and good and do not know why there are not more votes on Ydrasse.
Farren second. Kind of complex headspace there.

Clidd townie. Clidd town. -> Cliid obvtown.
Mena??? Eh. Cool he threw down the policy lurker card, a mena favorite. And Mena Convo with Clidd veered into his principled territory. Probs town. Cool. Two town reads so far.

Mena & Clidd slots can town block with me when they feel like I've earned their recognition.

Morning Tweet: Ydrasse question seems a little bit creative.

Dunstral: Scummeh.
GulityLion. Not familiar with Clidd's sudden read flips or hard town reads based on empathy. Or just trying to break that up. Honest rxn to Farren.
Gamma. Not much to bite into.

Page 1- Page 10.

Glad to see we can come to an agreement on Mena/Clidd or Isis/tea

I am thinkin and thinkin about Ydrasse I should really ISO her sometime when i'm feeling like it

[Morning Tweet]

I don't have a sense of Dunn's reads on anybody in this game

and I don't like Farren using me as justification to not vote Dunnstral

!!!! I thought the "Vote GL or Gamma exactly" thing was sort of weird

overall I think I'm like here

{Isis, MT}
{tea leaves, Gamma}
{Bell, Farren}
{Dunn, Ydrasse}

Isis I'm not following 600, what's the inconsistency there

Yes!!!! these are good reads!!!!!!! yay guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As long as you're town anyway. no read compliments for scum

[Morning Tweet]

I did not see anything in the scum PT beyond the mod's opening post before it disappeared on me.

I'm going to sleep on 698. The closest I can think of right now for scum agenda there is generic stuff, value zero.

UNVOTE: GuiltyLion

I had the link to the scum PT, but no access. I think i may have been the arsonist who wasn't meant to be !

overall I think I'm like here

{Isis, MT}
{tea leaves, Gamma}
{Bell, Farren}
{Dunn, Ydrasse}

Isis I'm not following 600, what's the inconsistency there

Read her iso, she wiggles between Farren being a stronger read, or Farren being a more "interesting" read, or there not being any difference really. She is truthfully reporting on the best of her recollection of her emulated reasoning, but that recollection is weaker because they are emulations.

this is too fukimng COMPLICATED

Maybe you're right. Or maybe you're reading too much into tea leaves' recollection

[Morning Tweet]

it's vaguely like a trust tell, since you could interpret it is "No I'm not scum, if I were scum I'd admit to being scum"

But I can tell the intention wasn't for it to be one

[Morning Tweet]

It's ok though. I have a contingency plan if I am forced into the tree stumped lifestyle and I'm already gathering a collection of cool trees to post as motivational support if they chop me down.

THE ONLY THING THAT PINGS ME ABT TEA IS THAT THEY KEEP BRINGING UP BEING STUMPED and what they'll do after

Still think they're town tho

Can we do Dunn first? pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease

I also would prefer Ydrasse but i should probably get on that reread of her first

[Morning Tweet]

That would require completely ignoring the underlined part. Telling the truth in an unbelievable fashion is an effective way of lying.

Well yea i think it was pretty clear their intention wasn't to trust tell. Still, I could see Gamma misinterpreting it as a defense against Isis or somethin

[Morning Tweet]

warning meta

Spoiler: the Ydrasse read

very floofy game opening

i've come out of the last page or two townreading clidd + menalque. mt to a lesser degree but still in my townreads. i think that the back and forth between the former was maneuvered in a way that settled some of the weird feelings i had towards the line of question from mena, of which mt voiced. also this is because i am tired and only really looking over the last few pages now. :>

i liked gamma's opening (it made me feel special... and also it was super bold) and i don't remember anything about farren right now or much of the others right now but that is an issue for after i sleep.

while it's hypocritical to say that like... activity =/= alignment it does feel like the towniest people right now are the people posting the most right now?

I agree

i think that morning tweet is town!

I AGREE

the reason for that townread in particular is that i think her open-mindedness this game thus far feels townier than not? like, i don't think she's hedging when she says she doesn't know something and isn't looking for someone to supply her the answers so much as wanting to collaborate with everyone if that makes sense?

Maybe. It's very game-to-game how difficult it is for me to get reads. It's probably a tad more difficult for me to get reads as a whole as scum, but I would say I scumread better as scum. I think

i like farren quite a bit. :> am adding him to my townpile.

Townread without giving extensive reasoning, more than "I like him". I wonder, does Ydrasse give naked reads as scum? I'm in the mood to check

She wrote an ESSAY on every player in the game in this scum game. EVERYTHING was preplanned by her huge read posts, she always had large walls to contribute before she'd move on to voting. She never opens herself up to getting attacked through opportunism, or anything else, because she gives off the appearance of actively reading every slot in the thread.

Let me check and see if Ydrasse ever elaborates this hard on her reads in town games she played at a similar time to this one (Newbie 2012)

Game of Ydrasse replacing into a terrible town slot and getting eliminated in 12 posts -> Newbie 2014

She certainly tried. But not nearly as much as she did in her scum game. That could just because she was screwed, moving on

Another town game -> Secrets of Anuket Topaz

She votes every other post for the first 12. She seems to be letting others sway her more. She's voting low-energy/activity slots. In 953 here comes a serious vote for wagon starter attempt. It's a lot of effort.. she has a lot of decent follow-up posts as well. I can tell her posting frequency is quite low though

I see that she got somewhat frustrated under pressure. I can tell Ydrasse fights really hard to not be eliminated. Not only that, she had the scum correct the whole way through. Looks like she basically saved the game to me cause she didn't die and did get her target eliminated

I wonder, does Ydrasse fight back hardest when she knows her elimination will result in a loss for herself and her team? I suppose it'd only make sense that way. That's as much meta as I have. This has been an in the mood for meta game for me

My running theory is that Ydrasse plays the hardest when she's under the most pressure, and that pressure can come from either A.) being on a scumteam where the game likely results in your loss upon getting eliminated or B.) being town getting pushed in a situation where your death means a likely loss for your team

Right now the only way Ydrasse could be feeling that pressure is if she's an arsonist. Haven't seen it yet. Lemme go back to why I'm bothering to do this... this game is a first for Ydrasse. I don't think she's written a single wall. She doesn't even feel the need to go deeply into her reads or explain herself much (like that Farren read above for example). If this isn't an external circumstance or something otherwise unrelated, I do believe this makes her town. There is also the possibility Ydrasse is consciously flipping the switch in order to distance herself from her scum meta.. but like why would you do that? Who is gonna get tripped up other than the 1-2 ppl who do meta analysis

Back to the game!

hi i have not been very active lately and i am sorry for that!

uh, to explain why i might feel/be acting different: it's more of a comfort thing than anything else? i feel at ease with the playerlist + the game as a whole right now so i'm more prone to like... be sort of chit-chatty and easygoing. it's probably not the best for like, finding scum but i'm also prioritizing my own enjoyment lmao. that and not having as much time as i would like to really go through this.

I just somewhat feel like scum!Ydrasse would be more concerned abt looking like a scumhunter

Okay her ISO is actually continuing to be fluff. I will note her votes don't seem very calculated to me, and if she's scum, she is making no attempt to steel herself as an endgame player. I get that she probably has less access than normal, but i would expect scum!Ydrasse to at least be really good at one thing (Like just read 1 player extensively at least, to look like she's really interesting in solving something).

I feel like she'd feel some sort of pressure to effort at least just a little, just so she can stay in the game longer and not have a chance at abandoning her arso buddy prematurely.

I would instead say we got tictactoe and cat pictures. Which i LOVE, but it definitely isn't helping an arsonist agenda.

tldr: i think she'd feel pressured to play harder as scum, even if she has less access than normal and feels very comfortable with the playerlist, she'd at least do at least an effort post or two, just a single wall for one of her reads! She'd want to help her arso buddy by trying at least the best she can to not be eliminated

there is none. Check her ISO. not one. there is only tictactoe and cats. this is someone who does not fear death

yup im townreading her high fluff:seriouspost ratio. I will feel very stupid if ur scum Ydrasse so ples dont be

[Morning Tweet]

Isis
Tea leaves
GuiltyLion* - Ydrasse*
Gamma Emerald
-
Bell
Farren
Dunnstral*

Gamma/Bell/Farren i havent focused on yet and probably wont until after i see the Dunn flip (or whatever we do today i guess..) so just gut ordering there

The too relaxed to be scum angle is just not enough for me tbh.

ya fair enough although I've talked myself into it to the point where i'd be quite surprised if Ydrasse flips scum now

[Morning Tweet]

i'm like super offended she is comfortable with this playerlist even though I'm in it my reputation should precede me she should be horrified of me

i'm horrified of you Isis!!

does that make up for it

Why is farren so low? Just PoE?

i forget why i townread him

In reality, you, Gamma, and Farren should be on the same tier but i felt like ordering it

[Morning Tweet]

we're going to eliminate tea leaves, aren't we. and then they're gonna flip scum. SMH

Actually let me order where i'd place my vote

Dunn
>>
Farren/Bell/Gamma -- with a good scum case
>
tea leaves (cuz i trust Isis and we're never getting past this)
>
Ydrasse
>
GuiltyLion
>
Isis

[Morning Tweet]

It's ok though. I have a contingency plan if I am forced into the tree stumped lifestyle and I'm already gathering a collection of cool trees to post as motivational support if they chop me down.

THE ONLY THING THAT PINGS ME ABT TEA IS THAT THEY KEEP BRINGING UP BEING STUMPED and what they'll do after

Still think they're town tho

Can we do Dunn first? pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease

I also would prefer Ydrasse but i should probably get on that reread of her first

Has Dunn done (lol) anything actively scummy?

Vaguely

Spoiler: Dunn readin

Dunnstral -

Basically no content yet. He has 10 posts, but around half of them aren't super game related. I'll grab the ones that are

What makes you suppose he's right on all his townreads?

I think Morning is town.
I think Clidd is town.
I think ydrasse is probably town.
I think GL is probably town, but actually maybe a little weaker than the other three.

Gamma, pine, dunn all null.

This seems opportunistic if farren is town.

Why does it seem opportunistic, dunn?

You put all the low posters in your null pile, which is actually just your scum pile but you're not calling it that

This combined with GL's scum in the actives comment made me wonder if there's an arsonist who felt the need to push back against Mena's early townlist. Dunn directly goes into a contrarian mode against Mena, whereas Guilty more subtlely implied there's scum in the active players (Mena was townreading almost all the activeish players).

I am curious as to why the only thing in the thread Dunn opted to comment at the time on was this. What made it the main thing that caught his eye, i mean. I'd like to talk about it more but I'm actually kind of missing what his point is too. What does putting the low posters in null and Farren in scum have to do with being opportunistic?

(me sitting here with 5 posts while clidd is pushed instead)

I feel like Morning Tweet should be calling me out for my lack of presence in this game or something

This feels like WIFOM!! But you're right

Dunn, although you may be correct that I should be one to notice you're gone -- what was the point of pointing it out in 411? Does it make you think im scummy? I struggle to find what the intention behind pointing it out was

Unless you're scum in which case it makes you look good in an indirect way. It's like a way to compensate for being inactive-- you point it out yourself before I or someone else does and it makes you look good for calling attention to something potentially scummy about yourself unprompted

He also vanished D1 in the game I played with him previously (Silent Star)

Whereas he was a huge player in my town game with him (vampirewarlockwerewolf)

im aware he has the capacity to vanish as town too, though :I

[Morning Tweet]

i'm like super offended she is comfortable with this playerlist even though I'm in it my reputation should precede me she should be horrified of me

i'm horrified of you Isis!!

does that make up for it

Why is farren so low? Just PoE?

i forget why i townread him

In reality, you, Gamma, and Farren should be on the same tier but i felt like ordering it

In that case why am I above the null line but those two aren’t?

I just put that line there cause it's in the middle

You had posts early I remember liking, Farren had a single post i remember liking early, and Bell I just sort of liked what i saw on this page. Real swingy stuff

[Morning Tweet]

Why do you trust me? What if I have bad reads?

Well they're not arsonist reads at least!

[Morning Tweet]

Don’t waffle bat friend! Be firm!

okay! (・`ω´・) standing strong !

[Morning Tweet]

Bell seems like town. Arsonists are inside of Dunn/Gamma/Farren -- gg?

What do you find townie about Farren, Bell?

[Morning Tweet]

Ydrasse i spent a half n hour reviewing you in 788 !!

Please be town so i don't look stupid

[Morning Tweet]

Gunna put MT into the maybe scum pile if ydrasse is actually scum.

Isis said the same thing if tea leaves flips scum

Why am I being BoP'd for my townreads! Mm I guess I don't mind. Just gotta be right (>ω<)

[Morning Tweet]

Bop was wrong way of putting it. More like.. people expecting me to hard TR my partner and try n save them two times in a row

The reason I chose Ydrasse was cause i was putting it off despite having her close to the bottom of my reads and a lot of ppl wanting her. I was like "yah that sounds fine" but i didn't actually do the work n review her posts

[Morning Tweet]

Bop was wrong way of putting it. More like.. people expecting me to hard TR my partner and try n save them two times in a row

The reason I chose Ydrasse was cause i was putting it off despite having her close to the bottom of my reads and a lot of ppl wanting her. I was like "yah that sounds fine" but i didn't actually do the work n review her posts

^^^see this kind of post is what makes me think she isn’t sorting people. She just states her opinion and doesn’t really invite challenges minus those question marks. She also focuses on one view and doesn’t try to consider other possibilities. It’s narrow

Wat

[Morning Tweet]

OH im dumb dont mind me

[Morning Tweet]

I'm gonna pretend i didn't see that alt slip cause they really had me going that they were a different person this time :C

AGAIN i feel like Ydrasse would be more conscious of how we're viewing her if she's scum. That hop on to the Dunn wagon without giving any detailed analysis as to why she agrees with the Dunn wagon versus other wagons? strange to me considering her scum game

I think if I abolish her meta from my mind, then yes Ydrasse is probably lean scum because she's mostly floating about the place sorta.

also, fwiw regarding morning tweet i remember having a scumread before on her in a previous game because of the way that she approaches things and sort of flits about, offers the townreads that she does, etc; it seemed strange and threw me down a rabbit hole. i don't think that she's acting any different than in the game we played together though and she was town in that one, so.

sometimes i feel like im playing my own game where I locktown as many people as possible for sometimes outlandish reasons, i try to convey it to the thread unsuccessfully, and then it's a coin toss whether I'm right or wrong anyway. Well i don't know, I don't *usually* locktown scum

The townreads I'd be upset about being wrong about at this point (they're probably high-to-medium strength):

Isis (Mena)
-
tea leaves (clidd)
Ydrasse
GuiltyLion

maybe something like that

And about the nonconfrontational thing, that's just me as a person seeping in -- I feel like I'm playing poorly when I get accused of being scum as town, so i have a mental block on doing it to other people if i'm not confident on it actually being true

[Morning Tweet]

this is gonna be the game where i hard townread both scum

SIGH knowing who tea leaves is might change my opinion so i should do them next sometime

[Morning Tweet]

MMmmmm i want to speculate on the VC but I'll leave it for now

I think even if Dunn is town, I'll have no way of knowing this game. I don't think he's indicated a read on any other player as of yet

You see in Silent Star (scum game) on the first day, he only had a single tunnelly read that he occasionally popped in to reiterate. On days after that he got more active and towny, enough to pocket beeboy for a while. Unfortunately, he got screwed by his claim but he would have had a chance if that hadnt happened

Lets see, I know Bell/Farren pretty vocally want Ydrasse. I know damn well what Isis wants. I'll have to review Gamma's grievances with tea leaves. Dunn naturally has no vote to correspond with his missing reads

[Morning Tweet]

Mt you seem townie this game does that mean you're scum?

Maybe sometimes that's true. That's the only thing I can do right as scum.

But not in this case. I'm devoting all my free time to mafia while i await anxiously for college to begin in a few days. And I've only got this to focus on

[Morning Tweet]

Farren hasn’t been very vocal about ydrasse?

Oh maybe im getting that confused w/ something else

[Morning Tweet]

Maybe you’re scum!

Scum with Farren trying to ignore calling him out in my "judging motivations for votes" post? Or scum that just has a jumbled mindset

[Morning Tweet]

i usually go over my ISO as scum to keep track of my positions on things so nothing is too jarring of a change

Although in this case I'm more misremembering who was pushing Ydrasse. I am guessing I thought both u and him were doing it, but i guess it was just u

Scum with Farren trying to ignore calling him out in my "judging motivations for votes" post? Or scum that just has a jumbled mindset

Did I miss something you were expecting a response to?

no

[Morning Tweet]

ya i see now Farren is taking more of a PoE approach (Ydrasse/Dunn/tea leaves inside). he recently spent time figuring out Gamma. I can respect that strategy

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: Farren recently

It beats the alternative.

PEdit: Right now, I think there's one in GuiltyLion / Gamma. I don't think they both are.

If it's GuiltyLion, I think we can take Dunnstral off the chopping block entirely.

111 didn't feel like s/s interaction.

PEdit: @Ydrasse

I did not see anything in the scum PT beyond the mod's opening post before it disappeared on me.

I'm going to sleep on 698. The closest I can think of right now for scum agenda there is generic stuff, value zero.

UNVOTE: GuiltyLion

VOTE: Ydrasse

Gamma's out of the pool for now. Ydrasse / tea leaves / Dunnstral remain.

I do like how he went from "One scum inside GL / Gamma", did more evaluation and talking to them, removed both, and now his PoE doesnt even include them. Somewhat seems like he lacks an agenda to me

This is gonna be wacky trying to find scum if Dunn is town :C

[Morning Tweet]

tldr: i think she'd feel pressured to play harder as scum, even if she has less access than normal and feels very comfortable with the playerlist, she'd at least do at least an effort post or two, just a single wall for one of her reads! She'd want to help her arso buddy by trying at least the best she can to not be eliminated

I read and have been chewing on your whole post but I'm quoting the tl;dr for cleanliness sake

I definitely think she's not playing to a tryhard scum meta here, I think you're right that from her past games she's shown a tendency to wall/fight/do more when she feels the game is in danger. and the point about there being no real reason for scum!her to intentionally change up her meta is fair.

I guess my hangup here is I'm not sure a scum!Ydrasse would have felt in danger yet this game - what do you think? Like I agree she's not trying to look like she's scumhunting, but I don't see her actually scumhunting either. Her wagon has grown some legs since Bell replaced in and the last time I caught up

with respect to the L-1 Dunn vote, that was after you posted this whole analysis - wouldn't scum!Ydrasse know that trying hard at that point, especially when dropping an L-1 is going to stand out?

If Dunn flips scum she's definitely town though

I think your point that scum!Ydrasse may not have felt the heat enough yet is a fair one. For me personally the pressure of playing scum begins in post #1, although I cannot say if this is true for her. She definitely came out swinging in her scum game, and if I had to guess, she probably preemptively garnered tons of townreads from it and didn't have to deal with too much pressure from there on out

I do think that the way Ydrasse has been playing so far isn't indictative of trying to survive till late though. That early pressure I feel as scum is to go up and beyond in order to get on people's townreads so I can survive til late. I am inclinded to think that scum!Ydrasse would try somewhat to townspew herself at least somewhat to try and get further in the game. And although she hasn't been under significant elimination pressure, she's still had some and I would say her playstyle didn't alter at all from what she did get

EBWOP - with respect to the L-1 Dunn vote, that was after you posted this whole analysis - wouldn't scum!Ydrasse know that trying hard at that point, especially when dropping an L-1,* is going to stand out?

dropped a comma

Yeah that's fair. More or less I'm noting that it's an example of what I'm talking about, you're right that she could now be conscious of it at this point so I probably shouldnt use it as evidence

[Morning Tweet]

I LOVE LEAFEON

yes i would like to know everyone's avatar!

also poe i guess :>

im at 0:14

Spoiler:

[Morning Tweet]

haha ur in a pot cuz ur a plant ahahahaaha

...I don't think I'll be able to focus again until after dunn's claim and/or flip

[Morning Tweet]

It's not me either

[Morning Tweet]

UNVOTE:

darn

[Morning Tweet]

I suppose I find it pretty unusual Ydrasse hasn't devoted any time to fighting to stay alive (either by defending herself, or more likely, by creating/pushing someone else with a lengthy case).

She usually has many large solvey posts, and my theory on it was that she feels under pressure to play when she thinks her death will result in a loss to her team. She doesn't have a single one of these posts so far this game

But that's not really an end-all reason to know she's town, it is possible any number of circumstances cause her to play differently, ig it's just my somewhat educated guess

And then on the other side there's tea leaves who I also don't really think is scum. But it's not my turn to choose! I already picked wrong unless GL has a surprise for us

[Morning Tweet]

Why do you suspect Tea leaves if you're just kind of rolling with everyone else's opinions?
Last voice in the room about Tealeaves was me who said town.

@MT: I can't really argue with this. I think she's had one scum game here, yeah? Iso'd her posts there and I agree that if she has not changed at all since that last game then she isn't scum this game. But there's a lot of factors getting in the way of 1 to 1 meta on alignment. Things like mood, attitude, time circumstance etcetera that could probably just as easily explain it?

Yea totally so I'm not gonna really oppose the choice because I think outside of that I don't really townread her

but i reserve the right to my "i told you so" if she flips green even if my read isn't even true and i was right on accident (>ω<)

[Morning Tweet]

I like really strongly want to believe that GuiltyLion is about to claim Firefighter here so I don't really want to think about the game as much till that's confirmed/denied

Dunnstral's post looks like how he'd structure a fakeclaim. But I could be wrong; if you're confirmed inno you kind of can devilmaycare if you want to

LET'S GO GUILTY COME ON !!!!! you went to firefighter school didn't you ???

Not that I wont accept Dunn as our saviour and all but like, it'd make the game a lot easier and me a lot less incorrect

[Morning Tweet]

I like really strongly want to believe that GuiltyLion is about to claim Firefighter here so I don't really want to think about the game as much till that's confirmed/denied

Dunnstral's post looks like how he'd structure a fakeclaim. But I could be wrong; if you're confirmed inno you kind of can devilmaycare if you want to

LET'S GO GUILTY COME ON !!!!! you went to firefighter school didn't you ???

Not that I wont accept Dunn as our saviour and all but like, it'd make the game a lot easier and

me a lot less incorrect

So confusing.

My Ydrasse townread and Dunn scumlean would be validated if GL counter-claims firefighter, making me a lot less incorrect

[Morning Tweet]

@MT: No, I got that. I just don't know how you could be anything other than neutral on Dunn. I don't disagree on the votes there (besides it being unfortunate he was a PR). Since you have to push there to solve. It's just weird you could heavy scum lean there.

He's playing the same way he did in my last game where he was scum. He also had some posts I found questionable and WIFOMy. Not a heavy scum read but the best I have/had

i don't have a sense of urgency this game by virtue of the setup meaning that even if i've been ~~lackluster today i can deal with it later so scumreads aren't phasing me.

Pretty much my running theory. You're not hurting us too much and you'll have a long time ahead of yourself to solve the game regardless of the outcome of today.

So you aren't under pressure to appear towny or tryhard. Whereas if you were an arsonist about to get your head lopped off, you might

Am I right to assume you start to feel pressure to appear towny decently early as scum so you tryhard early on to cement yourself as town, or was that just what you felt like doing in your scum game and it's not indictative of your scum play as a whole?

[Morning Tweet]

Ruthless AtE from Ydrasse, I'm buying it

[Morning Tweet]

sorry to disappoint :lol:

dammit!!!

Ydrasse I will visit your stump biweekly to honour your legacy. i may sit on top of you from time to time (but only when im feeling really tired). i will definitely not carve anything into you!

[Morning Tweet]

Pretend im voting Gamma but i dont know the VC ill be on later i have time right?

[Morning Tweet]

It's probably something like GuiltyLion + Farren though

That would be very funny considering the previous roll

[Morning Tweet]

Gamma ur reaction to being wagoned is there must be scum on the wagon and therefore the wagon wouldn't have happened if you were scum?

Apologies if im misinterpretting im a bit cloudy today

can i proxy my vote to mt

no dont

[Morning Tweet]

Yeah I can't process it very well right now for some reason ummm not a great time considering there's like no time til deadline

I'm operating off of my spirtual Ydrasse townread and that I thought tea leaves was town earlier in the game. The last like 7-10 pages are probably really important for gauging how the Dunn wagon broke down into Ydrasse and into Gamma but I just can't read it good rn

There's a somewhat decent chance Gamma was just taken aback by the flash wagon and is responding to it with his first impulse even if maybe it doesn't make sense. But I don't want Ydrasse and i dont *think* i want tea leaves

I think there’s scum on my wagon because I think the different votes that came on have to add up to one scum
Tea leaves has self-interest, Bell there was the thought of being buddies with Ydrasse, which doesn’t hold up much now but was my thinking then, and I have a strong townread on Farren and a decent one on GL, leaving Isis and MT as viable suspects outside that
I’d either have to be wrong somewhere or have scum both in the margins for my claim to be off

I see, I suppose probability wise it makes sense. I see that Bell, Isis, and GL had negative reactions to your reaction but I also sort of had the same thought

[Morning Tweet]

Proxy your vote to me and vote Gamma, he flipped from strong townreading me to suspecting me in like 3 posts

yah but is it

scummy

or

emotional

[Morning Tweet]

Yeah I can't process it very well right now for some reason ummm not a great time considering there's like no time til deadline

I'm operating off of my spirtual Ydrasse townread and that I thought tea leaves was town earlier in the game. The last like 7-10 pages are probably really important for gauging how the Dunn wagon broke down into Ydrasse and into Gamma but I just can't read it good rn

There's a somewhat decent chance Gamma was just taken aback by the flash wagon and is responding to it with his first impulse even if maybe it doesn't make sense. But I don't want Ydrasse and i dont *think* i want tea leaves

I think there’s scum on my wagon because I think the different votes that came on have to add up to one scum
Tea leaves has self-interest, Bell there was the thought of being buddies with Ydrasse, which doesn’t hold up much now but was my thinking then, and I have a strong townread on Farren and a decent one on GL, leaving Isis and MT as viable suspects outside that
I’d either have to be wrong somewhere or have scum both in the margins for my claim to be off

I see, I suppose probability wise it makes sense. I see that Bell, Isis, and GL had negative reactions to your reaction but I also sort of had the same thought

Wdym negative reactions

these

Wow, that's one of the worst answers I've ever heard.

Wow, that's one of the worst answers I've ever heard.

personally I'm struggling with Gamma turning on Bell for voting him like that and suggesting Ydrasse/Bell team, that feels like he was more interested in discrediting Bell's vote than operating from genuine reads

but that could come from frustrated town, he backed down on it pretty quickly, idk if that's town or scum realizing they made a claim they can't realistically defend

[Morning Tweet]

I like really strongly want to believe that GuiltyLion is about to claim Firefighter here so I don't really want to think about the game as much till that's confirmed/denied

Dunnstral's post looks like how he'd structure a fakeclaim. But I could be wrong; if you're confirmed inno you kind of can devilmaycare if you want to

LET'S GO GUILTY COME ON !!!!! you went to firefighter school didn't you ???

Not that I wont accept Dunn as our saviour and all but like, it'd make the game a lot easier and

me a lot less incorrect

So confusing.

My Ydrasse townread and Dunn scumlean would be validated if GL counter-claims firefighter, making me a lot less incorrect

@MT: No, I got that. I just don't know how you could be anything other than neutral on Dunn. I don't disagree on the votes there (besides it being unfortunate he was a PR). Since you have to push there to solve. It's just weird you could heavy scum lean there.

Bell, why do you characterize my read on Dunn as a "heavy scum lean" here? It seems 'weird' possibly because you exaggerated it. Does this play into your suspicions of me?

Isis still feel very good about being town. recently I liked the way she read Dunn even after 90% of the thread said they weren't firefighter. It's like the opposite of that argument people were using on Ydrasse for being "too accepting too soon"

Spoiler: these posts

Dunn do you realize that when you claimed FF the mechanical probability you were scum became 67%?

I was saying to think about why posting cases on GL before CC is complete is bad.

it is bad because with town!Dunn and scum!GL GL gets advanced notice and can claim FF so that we stump Dunn. While if you wait for GL to claim VT and go for endgame, right after he claims VT you can say "btw you're not endgaming once I believe Dunn to be scum you're the one I hate" and he can't switch to counterclaiming FF

I'm naturally much more doubtful Dunnstral is scum the more he continues to engage the thread
But previously it was the high base probability plus the way he said hi.
I'm bemused that he didn't say "it wasn't an apology" or "I apologize sometimes", he just said I'm reachy

I also continue to soulread Ydrasse being town

I cannot decide whether Guilty's approach to Gamma was genuine or not

personally I'm struggling with Gamma turning on Bell for voting him like that and suggesting Ydrasse/Bell team, that feels like he was more interested in discrediting Bell's vote than operating from genuine reads

but that could come from frustrated town, he backed down on it pretty quickly, idk if that's town or scum realizing they made a claim they can't realistically defend

on one hand i had a similar reaction cause town has frustrated backlash and i get that, but also I guess he didn't really take a stance on it. I didn't take a hard stance either, but i would generally say it's easier to hedge as scum than to not

There are a couple things I want to townread of Guilty's but I'm not sure if they're stupid reasons. I like his "fuck it" hammer when combined with him not really taking too much of a stance on Gamma

But he did point out some inconsistencies Gamma had in 1229/1232 so he did kind of build up to it. What I'm getting at is that I feel scum is more likely to feel like they need a documented progression on someone before voting them end of day, whereas town just goes with what's in their head. I want to say Guilty's hammer leans towards the "screw it" side and comes off as townier to me

I have an extra stupid theory on Guilty as well that I almost didn't share but I may as well because it's affecting my read:

no, that team would make no sense?? I also addressed this directly in an earlier post:

If Dunn flips scum she's definitely town though

you're better than this, surely?

I feel like this was a bit mean if Guilty knows Ydrasse is town, but a lot more justifiable if he is town doubting Ydrasse's alignment

yea so im going to bed I'm sorry if none of this is helpful I contained it to one post so I dont accidentally spam the thread with nonsense reads

[Morning Tweet]

Tweet why did you discount a GL Ydrasse team?

do i ever mention their associations? i havent even barely done associations for anyone yet i dont think

Lemme see, GL has Ydrasse as bottom scumread, votes Ydrasse after Dunn wagon falls apart.. wasnt tea leaves a viable counter wagon for most of EoD?

GL pushed clidd but 180d on tea leaves entrance over to Ydrasse

idk unless Guilty somehow knew the Ydrasse stuff would fall apart it seemed like he was ready to kill her

He also didnt accept my meta case on Ydrasse and gave me a bunch of counterpoints to think about

is that a scumteam you're considering? I'm thinking more about players outside of isis/ydrasse/gl

[Morning Tweet]

I wonder if Tweet will flip scum this game just because she's so moonlogicky. But I don't think it's the kind of theory that's reasonable to test with hachets

Its less scum indictative more "Morning is a mess" indictative

[Morning Tweet]

Also, I feel the question you lodged at me was more to look for cracks than a genuine attempt to read me.
But we’ll see. I don’t think it will be particularly easy to convince other players to vote you.
And you know, i’m Going to think about this one for awhile.

I can see why you think that but you are in the list of names im tossing around in my head to vote and it keeps getting shorter. I have a tendency to over suspect pushes on me but I still wanted to ask about it

[Morning Tweet]

on one hand i had a similar reaction cause town has frustrated backlash and i get that, but also I guess he didn't really take a stance on it. I didn't take a hard stance either, but i would generally say it's easier to hedge as scum than to not

Would you describe yourself as hedging?

That's what im saying there yes. I think what I did was generally something scum can do and GL also did it. Not stating a definite opinion is generally easier to than not

By heavy scum lean, I merely mean you voted hI’m up to claim. Which I consider to be a serious vote.
As for why, I think it’s a combination of metaing you., realizing that effort is a thing you do as both alignments and thinking about your positioning on both wagons(or lack thereof) and your reflected attitudes there.

Hm, okay.

I usually vote the shinest looking wagon that is not within my townreads, I would vote true nulls if it were the best thing on the table just to protect my townreads. In Dunns case though I was hoping he'd be scum but I didnt have more than a few smaller reasons since he didnt have hardly any content

Sadly yeah to the effort thing. It cuts into my town game really badly sometimes. My positioning on both wagons and reflected attitudes..... you can have that scumread till further notice because I myself dont know exactly what those were

[Morning Tweet]

I *think* that's what Farren was getting at w/ the "we should talk" post

[Morning Tweet]

Mm VCA says yes, but also, those two were at the bottom of tea leaves' reads so I suppose it only naturally follows they would be on both wagons

Being the counter wagon consistently is interesting to me though I am not yet sure if it's damning

Farren, what do you think about Ydrasse now? I see that you took her getting chopped down so much for granted that you moved your vote to pressure tea leaves on the basis that they were getting nervous in response to Ydrasse's pressure.

that does leave me somewhat confused on where you stand on her

[Morning Tweet]

My snap negative reaction to Bell pushing me is waning. I forgot to read the bottom of page 51 up til now somehow so I have a more complete sense of his progression on me

He's got like a combination of pretty believable looking solving and also parts where his reads seem to shift wildly (basically the Gamma section). I also want to say his pushing on me is because he thinks I have a good chance of being scum as opposed to trying to look good for it. Maybe I don't have a good reason to believe that yet but it's what I'm thinking

Also, I feel the question you lodged at me was more to look for cracks than a genuine attempt to read me.
But we’ll see. I don’t think it will be particularly easy to convince other players to vote you.
And you know, i’m Going to think about this one for awhile.

We'll see!

Let's put it at..

Isis
-
Ydrasse, Bell,
tea leaves (pending review) <- probably getting tricked by one of these 3
-
GuiltyLion, Farren <- probably one scum

I'm beginning to see why tea leaves suggested GL/Farren the other day. If im not screwing up which I definitely am but still, it'd mean 1-2 of them is scum. Both I highly doubt

VOTE: Farren

[Morning Tweet]

I'm beginning to see why tea leaves suggested GL/Farren the other day. If im not screwing up which I definitely am but still, it'd mean 1-2 of them is scum. Both I highly doubt

What is your actual read on tea leaves, though

like you say you might be getting tricked on them, but you're voting in a dichotomy that they presented?

and if Farren flips town, does that mean you vote me tomorrow?

Town. I'm not voting in GL/Farren *because* they presented it, I arrived to that conclusion and then had the realization that they said the same thing yesterday.

If Farren died instantly + flipped town at the time I made that post, then yeah I'd switch to you. Not necessarily if we're talking a large time gap, because my reads change sporadically sometimes

Are you implying im sort of setting up easy miselim votes for myself or somethin? So I can be like "it was tea leaves idea!" or something?

As Morning mentioned, it's pretty easy to tell I'm on both wagons because it naturally follows from my earlier reads.

this is also kinda silly reasoning to defend yourself as town, scum are going to make sure their reads align with their votes

I'm interested in seeing whether a wagon on you here can get off the ground given it swung away twice yesterday

No, it's the fact you're using the the reasoning that I was on both wagons to support your argument. It labels me as opportunistic, when that's not the case since those were my bottom two scumreads.

"You were on both counterwagons!"

"Yes, but those two were at the bottom of my reads so it only makes sense."

"That's a bad reason for you being town, of course scum would line up their votes with their reads!"

Am i missing anything here?

[Morning Tweet]

lol this is an interrogation. At least post some cute cat/bat pictures while you're at it

You don’t do well with pressure. Is that typical for you as town/scum?

i can't say I've ever observed tea leaves to not do well with pressure. Now, on the other hand, as for myself..

Spoiler:

thank you i appreciate this

I just reread the rest of tea’s posts and I don’t see much scummy there tbh.

i agree

Ah, this is gonna sound weird but I was kinda faking my tone before I alt-slipped (for the sake of concealing my identity). I stopped bothering after that.

>:((

[Morning Tweet]

So how’d the reread of isis go, and why do you think MT is town?

Ydrasse, farren, Morning.

I haven't done it yet :]

In due time.

Morning is a... complicated read. I also need to reread her. I'm currently just interacting in real-time and don't really have the energy to go back and reread stuff. I'll do it at some point.

Hello this is morning in real-time how are you doing

[Morning Tweet]

i did the first 2 cases (trials?) of danganronpa v3 before losing access to it. I loved the first trial, it's one of my favourites across the series

I'm getting online college stuff in order so i'll be ready tomorrow. losing my mind over it a little bit but it's mostly okay

[Morning Tweet]

My case on MT is fairly simple.
To me it looks like she positioned herself last day phase.
I'm also seeing stuff I might do as scum that she's doing in her chat with Tea to get him pocketed.

:L

I said I couldn't decide on Gamma but I would have voted him if it got down to it, i think i mentioned that yesterday. I didn't really get down to finding him super scummy, like at first I was like "ohoho he's snap reacting to accusing the people pushing him", but then i was like "oh no town does that too". But I'd have voted him over Ydrasse and tea leaves definitely because that's not an active townread, that's just finding that particular thing NAI

If this were like a Hectic game that does like hammer flavour, I'd have stolen the hammer. Well, I was in a really unfortunate mood that impacted my readthrough so probably not EoD but under normal circumstances i might have decided to steal it

...is this a "keep Gamma's blood off of my wings" kind of thing actually or am i misinterpreting?

[Morning Tweet]

Bell posts a lot of vague solviness but I don't remember much that's like "wow this is town". And his townread on tealeaves is really weird.

Farren kind of treads the hard to fake territory more often as far as I can tell. If he actually has the track record of being bad at scum he says he does all the better

Could you point me to a a hard to fake post or two if you can? There are things I liked in Farren's ISO but not as much as some others i checked

[Morning Tweet]

Yes and no, it was more that you seemed to have no scum reads at all. So, “keep everybody's blood off my wings” would be more accurate. Or perhaps better said, “keep everybody happy with me.”

I think you would have voted him if it got down to it as either alignment. :? Not sure what your point is there.

Ah okay. You might need more than that for your wagon to gain traction with people I've played with in the past, because I have a certain tendency to do that about 1/2 - 2/3rds the time as town, and I don't think i did it in my scum games. lemme think..

I think in mini 2132 I decently knew who I needed to be suspecting in order to win (LuckyLuciano's elimination comes to mind, I got quite sloppy making up reasons to doubt him), and in Zoey's I actually took more of an approach like "suspect everyone except this one person who i think obvtowned the most, maybe try to pocket them " (since i replaced into a Xylo)

The problem is i feel bad pushing people who I don't think have a somewhat decent chance of being scum, or if i can't give a good reason. And I'm bad at finding reasons to suspect people but very good at finding reasons to trust them

However! The last game we played together was why gun, one of the games where I was abnormally right because scum didn't do much to make themselves appear townie. So townreading everybody and eliminating the rest worked great. Pork I felt said a lot of ridiculous things that made it very easy to justify my suspicions of him, Tipsy played much differently than I had seen them play in a previous game, and Norwe was mostly not present

So if you're approaching me with that as your frame of reference, then yea, this is new but much closer to my normal play. When scum play well I'm left with this situation where everyone passes the baseline "seems townie" check and I'm unsure where to start. I find that I usually just look for the people who are the most towniest, and then execute the rest who are still towny but I don't have as hard a reason for.

You did mention metaing me earlier so maybe you've already reached your conclusions about me but there's my take on it for u anyway (・ω・)

[Morning Tweet]

I felt like talking to tea leaves cause they mentioned me (；ω；)

Idk, keeping people happy/being agreeable is not a trait specific to my scum play. I only got in Pork and whoever elses faces because I felt they were scummy, not because I have a tendency to do that only as town.

Maybe i am being more methodical and removed. which sucks because that's probably the tone I tend to shift to when I'm not enjoying the game as much. It's not anything wrong with this game in particular though I'm just a bit stressed out atm and I'm not sinking time to do rereads, and when I don't do that I don't feel justified calling people scum

[Morning Tweet]

Bell posts a lot of vague solviness but I don't remember much that's like "wow this is town". And his townread on tealeaves is really weird.

Farren kind of treads the hard to fake territory more often as far as I can tell. If he actually has the track record of being bad at scum he says he does all the better

Could you point me to a a hard to fake post or two if you can? There are things I liked in Farren's ISO but not as much as some others i checked

Am I allowed to use 1410 :shifty:

feels like cheating but okay

He mostly examines whether or not you and i have partner equity. It's a fine post i suppose

Maybe I should be approaching this from more of a world-building perspective. I'm getting nowhere right now.

yeah, think I'm done reading that. That does not look s/s to me.

this is not going to get done before I go to bed tonight. So I'm posting this mostly to give me incentive to FOCUS damn it and finish it when I'm more conscious.

i relate to this vibe when it comes to efforting recently

[Morning Tweet]

Why areNT you voting Hobbes with me if you agree, Morning?

im considering it

I think Guilty's case on you reads a bit thin, there's a possibility it might be fake. I think the exchange i mentioned in that post was a bit ridiculous

I might sheep Isis' Farren townread. I voted Farren before GL cause I had some moonlogic reasons for GL being town whereas Farren I don't have as much on recently

[Morning Tweet]

I need one of Ydrasse, GL, Farren, MT to raise their hands real high and announce they're town to PoE to victory.

@Isis, I don't really know.

But I'm reeeally short!!

If I assume that pool is right, maybe it's GL/Ydrasse and my meta on Ydrasse is incorrect. Ah but I did look over that earlier i think and it seemed like GL was willing to kill Ydrasse pretty hard. Hm.. who would GL's partner be...

Maybe if I can answer that question with a pool of a couple ppl later today ill switch my vote. Atm unsure

[Morning Tweet]

why does scum Farren embark on such a pointless exercise that doesn't really have any lamisty shine to it and also doesn't really help him push any chopping in particular

I think it reflects well on him, idk about it being totally pointless for him to do as scum though. But I agree it makes me prefer guilty at least. Guilty + a non farren player is probably my new best guess

UNVOTE:

Too late to join the wagon party once again. whoops

I kind of hate it when my scum reads just naturally shift to the two least active non-cleared players.

i struggle with this constantly

[Morning Tweet]

I’m kinda thinking MT is town just off the fact remembering how she dealt with my wagon it felt like she genuinely wasn’t ready to vote and wasn’t trying to keep her claws clean

FYI the “scum 100% on my wagon” push was partly to try and intimidate scum into folding at least a little, enough that it might pop out on inspection. I was livid about it happening but was also lucid enough about my rage to try and weaponize it

Mmm I like that phrase, ill be taking it

did you learn anything from it? I guess you probably would've mentioned but still. it was a good idea at least!

[Morning Tweet]

Wait which one of you even is Guilty's partner? Would be, is, whatever. Bell/Farren aren't really jumping out to me as the greatest candidates. Please don't have it be like Isis or Ydrasse or something. Maybe it would be though

sorry i was busy today, I should have a nice amount of time to devote to figuring this or some other stuff out tomorrow.

[Morning Tweet]

Why not directly ask MT to clear up these questions?
To my knowledge MT has not done a META exclusive scum read on her partner before.

Hard ignored my partner nn in my newbie game, soft bussed Chemist in 2132 (but voted elsewhere), forced Adorable into a dichotomy with another player in 2132 (had to make up reasons to scumread the other person, bob, while suppressing reasons to scumread Adorable), placed ABR into PoE in Zoey's (but spent a majority of my time being paranoid of Flavour).

I'd say i have a tendency to be nervous and careful about how i interact with my partner. I don't like to actively townread them interestingly enough

It terms of plausibility? I'm not sure she could read those games, iso those games, get an understanding of those games quote those games and write all that in exactly 45 minutes.
She's self aware enough to know that level of effort makes her look town which is in part why she said she efforts as scum and that's alignment indicative for her. In terms of her angle whether she's being selfless enough or trying to look town hard enough and comparing it to this game. What I can immediately share with you is that she always spoiler tags her stuff when it gets too big.

That post is not in my notes. I did it entirely in thread

I hadn't read newbie 2012 or 2014, but I had read a bit of the ending to secrets of anuket topaz prior.

This is true with regards to spoilers, I feel bad clogging the thread. Even though I do want people to read my posts

I think some of the confidence in that meta read is a little strange in how she grasps it but I expect it may just be because she knows the alignment going forward and she's focusing on what's important to HER about Ydrasse. I think you could reach these conclusions she made easily enough even if she wasn't inside this game in particular, it's a bubble space because she's interpreting games that have already happened in the same way someone might comment on a movie, what I mean by this is that she absolutely 100% can have genuine town opinions and it's about whether she manipulated her findings or felt she needed to censor them because, if Ydrasse isn't her partner what if my case makes her look super town as she actually is and I unlock her into obv town to the rest of the town? Or the opposite and she shows her partner to be scum.

Er. I don't know? Those questions are really hard for me to answer.

Hm hm hm hard to say whether or not I make the case as scum. I think probably not if Ydrasse is my partner, but if she isn't, I could see doing it as an effort towncred grab. There's a chance maybe i think "There's no way they think I hard defend Ydrasse as her partner" and do it anyway but I feel like i'd probably talk myself out of it

What i can say is if Ydrasse were my partner I'd have spent a huuge amount of time slaving over it to make sure it's without flaw. I am very conscious of how i post as scum. That being said I don't think 45 minutes is really that short

[Morning Tweet]

I don't get a sense of that level of ... calculation from MT, which I think would be required here - unless her partner gives her the idea. But in that case we'd still be looking at s/t, so forget about that.

Scum couldn't talk to each other til N1

[Morning Tweet]

While reading, I don't know why she would share some parts of the information of her analysis of Ydrasse. She notes that melo/elo Ydrasse cares a lot more as town, while as scum she tends to care all the time. Part of the formula (scum generalized anxiety) is there and can be seen at the time. But she revealed AI information for elo-melo that would be useful if Ydrasse wasn't aware of it .I also don't think she weighed how self-aware Ydrasse is about what is about AI meta information on her. But I rarely am that thoughtful either. Just due to time constraints, difficulty planning, confidence in interpreting what I'm seeing from the plan etc.

I think your summary is correct. I believe my theory was "Ydrasse switches on when she feels her elimination will cause her team to lose". I arrived to that conclusion from noticing she tryharded since the very beginning as scum, but as town in Anuket, she tryharded like mad in Xylo

I think she would probably tryhard in Xylo as both alignments, so therefore it doesn't really matter if I tell her I'm aware of that. I'm judging her based on early play which has already occured, so again i'm unsure what I would gain from hiding my observation of her late play. I gain more using it as a piece of evidence for my theory i would think

[Morning Tweet]

Did i forgot to say happy birthday? Happy birthday Ydrasse!

UNVOTE:

the purpose of my tea leaves vote was to see whether there'd be resistance or joining from slots like Isis/Ydrasse/MT, but tea leaves kinda forced my hand by getting defensive about it

if Tea Leaves is town that means there's absolutely 100% a scum in Ydrasse/Isis. Both pushing TL yesterday up through deadline then completely drop it to vote me today instead

At first i was like "haha yeah BULLSHIT"

but i mean actually now that you mention it i guess you were hinting that all along

tea leaves is on both and was a counter wagon to both - is anybody hard townreading them?

Also, if scum|GuiltyLion goes after you with VCA, what would you expect Town|GuiltyLion to do?

A push on someone that's a whole lot more substantial and reasonable than whatever this is.

I don't feel like you've given a lot of thoughts to my motives here

Do you still like the reasoning for your vote, given the readlist Morning pointed out?

I like my reasoning for my vote for entirely different reasons than the reasoning you're challenging

Your case on tea felt a tad forced. But I see your point on how it's somewhat odd Isis/Ydrasse didn't continue to vote for tea. If they're town with independent reasoning to scumread tea, you'd probably expect them to join the wagon at the first opportunity, I suppose?

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: guiltylion

ty for the well wishes today guys <3

y'all seriously don't have any issues with this E-1?

Ydrasse was also an E-1 wagon yesterday at crunch time and a CW to Dunn

now she drops an E-1 on me and nobody even flinches, that kinda hurts to be honest :(

okay okay now i feel bad and it's not even me directly

I think that X-1 is scummy in like a blatant way where Ydrasse hasn't mentioned you in a while (as far as i can remember?) and now she's willing to put naked vote you to X-1, sure

Reviewing yesterday however I do notice that you were Ydrasses' first pick after Dunn claimed. So I guess it's not a huge surprise after all

this is on the presumption that dunn is uncc'd + if it is and i'm asleep everyone can strongarm an elim on him through regardless

VOTE: guiltylion

town dunn makes me feel better about tea + that vote a while back. my working brain completely brushed over the fact gl had said that thing about me + dunn. i don't like how he was ready to switch to me at any point were the signs there and then didn't really do much about it when i joined a wagon that he was also on. even if he thinks that we don't make sense together i'd think that someone would be a little more worried about their Strongest (?) scumread hopping on with them.

p-edit: ya that's fine with me

pedit: Okay yeah that's basically what i was saying but yea

[Morning Tweet]

I think that X-1 is

scummy

in like a blatant way where Ydrasse hasn't mentioned you in a while (as far as i can remember?) and now she's willing to put naked vote you to X-1, sure

Clarification: not "scummy", more like "can be perceived as blatantly scummy without context". that's what im trying to say here

[Morning Tweet]

I just realised I considered the fact it's not distancing but then provided arguments for why it could be distancing.

It could be distancing.

LOL yeah

I think if you take only one of the two days into account, it could be distancing. I don't know if both scum come for each other's throats

this

consistently though.

It's also evidently not winning them any favours although maybe they thought it would

[Morning Tweet]

tree

Bell, tea leaves, Farren
-=============-
Isis, GuiltyLion, Ydrasse

arsonist

Be cool if they were distancing though cause then Isis would indeed be town like I want her to be and also I am REALLY not sure who above the line would be arsonist rn.

I need more consideration, but tea leaves, Bell, and Farren have all felt really good today. Probably tea leaves the most let me try to expand it

tea leaves
Bell
Farren
-=============-
Isis
GL/Ydrasse ?

Lol if you turn this upside-down it sort of looks like my d1 reads. Fuck

[Morning Tweet]

Bell just feels stupid town. Not him being dumb, i mean he's a stupid amount of towny so far. something like that (¬ω¬)

My reads align with tea leaves' reads constantly so i want them to be town for that. There's also probably other stuff

BEYOND THAT

i am a bat lost in the dark

however

I am falling for Farren's huge association analysis posts

Isis i had like tons of reasons for being town yesterday, none today. I guess i don't feel much there yet. She implied i could be scum but didnt join the wagon on me, has a big townread on Farren (still), and hopped on the GL wagon pretty much immediately. I have been hard townreading Isis, and GL hasn't (right?) Do the math!!

i apologize that last part was tin foil-y

GuiltyLion and Ydrasse...... there has to be one arsonist in there......... right?

Be cool if they were distancing though cause then Isis would indeed be town like I want her to be and also I am REALLY not sure who above the line would be arsonist rn.

Could you explain this further, please? I don't get how distancing is related to how your reads are positioned.

They're the least towny on my list (Not counting the meta on Ydrasse which I am seriously considering dropping). If they're both arsonists distancing each other, that means i dont gotta reevaluate the town portion

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Guilty

hahah i got a spot on the wagon

[Morning Tweet]

@MT, sometimes, I obvious town. :oops: This might be a meta issue down the line for me if I stick around and am active enough here.

oh yeah, that'll bite ya eventually

[Morning Tweet]

If GL is a miselim we're in Xylo next oops

There's no way both GL and Ydrasse are trees.. right? If we miselim GL and he exacts revenge on Ydrasse the next day, and she's a tree, we lose

If this is the case, scum should just put a ton of shade on the both of them I suppose and they win easily here

This is more precarious than i thought

[Morning Tweet]

well, I'm town.
I don't think Isis, Farren or Tealeaves are scum. Or you for that matter.

So, I'd say the odds are fairly good they're not both town, yeah.

This is seriously begging the question of "Who is GL's partner?"

you already mentioned abt that though.

I am gonna be maad if you're scum

[Morning Tweet]

Tweet why are you scumreading me? Are you really scumreading me or are you just bored and fidgety?

latter

If I want Bell/Farren/tea in the town block then that makes GL/Ydrasse the team if you're not scum

So somewhere I'm having issues although dunno where yet

[Morning Tweet]

UNVOTE:
I don't feel remotely confident enough about scum!GL to overrule Dunnstral if he's confident

the Ydrasse-or-GL reasoning kind of makes sense to me so maybe that means this day is Ydrasse

Is there GL or Ydrasse reasoning aside from that they're both scummy but there's no way (probably) they're distancing?

[Morning Tweet]

Are these overall reads or D2 reads?

They're where I'm standing just from our communications today cause i've hardly reread a thing

I know there's someone evil I'm blind to. Hopefully not both. And hopefully not BELL but it's probably not Bell

[Morning Tweet]

It's like I have amnesia and don't remember a thing from D1 sort of

Bell/tea aren't scum (I'm cheating on tea leaves, I remember D1 tea/clidd somewhat)

Farren is decently not scum but if he is, probably only with GL (Don't think he/ydrasse were distancing)

Isis gets town priority over Ydrasse/GL but barely

and i make the assumption one of GL/Ydrasse is arso

so GL + {Farren/Isis} --or-- Ydrasse + Isis exactly

So yeah Isis kind of slipped down sorta but I totally forget what she did D1 other than play drunk tic tac toe which is my bad

[Morning Tweet]

Morning has committed half-towntells. The question is whether she's transcended and now commits them as scum. What even is your last scumgame, Morning? All the way back to Zoey?

yup. I wish we had more opportunities to test your tell, but alas, i just don't roll scum (^ω^)

[Morning Tweet]

Well, except in pregame. but that didn't count, I was merely dreaming about burning the forest down

Farren made me do it

[Morning Tweet]

Do you think you'd tryhard as scum or try and manipulate your meta?

I predict I will go high effort as usual if I'm in a game with people mostly unfamiliar with me, otherwise I'd try to throw a wrench in it and maybe effort less

Actually, Silent Star is probably the closest to a recent scumgame you'll get. High effort but low post frequency as I dreaded talking

[Morning Tweet]

Tweet if there's not enough people that can be scum it's because there's no reason to clear tea leaves

maybe, maybe. my heart is set on Bell though

Do you think tea has better partner equity with GL or Ydrasse? I assume Ydrasse

I should have committed the towntell by now, probably. Are you trying to keep me in consideration by not pointing it out, tea?

Pocketing would be way more effective against me though so maybe not

[Morning Tweet]

At this point I want to kill Ydrasse, Morning Tweet, and tea leaves in some order

If we went Ydrasse and she flipped green, and you had 5 seconds to pick someone to vote, who you picking after her

[Morning Tweet]

counterpoint: we lose the game if you do that

[Morning Tweet]

the Ydrasse-or-GL reasoning kind of makes sense to me so maybe that means this day is Ydrasse

At this point I want to kill Ydrasse, Morning Tweet, and tea leaves in some order

this is why i asked

You supposedly think there's an arsonist in Ydrasse/GL but you only seem to want to kill Ydrasse and then your own reads

[Morning Tweet]

That's like saying we would have lost the game if I convinced Drew to self vote in Triad Conspiracy

I.. well...

yes, yes it is

[Morning Tweet]

i dont even know who Dunn thinks is scum. What do u mean his PoE?

[Morning Tweet]

calling 1 townread and 5 nullreads a PoE is sort of generous. I call it process of elimination when I've like, eliminated enough people to have an idea of who scum is

[Morning Tweet]

Just thinking about you and Guilty..

GuiltyLion doesn't make me feel anything even when he's active tho

VOTE: GuiltyLion
CONFESS

You hop onto his wagon third after Bell and tea express great interest. You apparently had never trusted Guilty the whole time. Even though the main person you suspect is tea, who is very much not scum with Guilty

VOTE: guiltylion

ty for the well wishes today guys <3

i am mostly PoEing

I'm concerned it was too easy now

Now despite Ydrasses' hop on which you find mildly concerning, you don't unvote, until two days later:

UNVOTE:
I don't feel remotely confident enough about scum!GL to overrule Dunnstral if he's confident

the Ydrasse-or-GL reasoning kind of makes sense to me so maybe that means this day is Ydrasse

You say "Well Dunn doesn't think it's GL, so by the GL/Ydrasse reasoning, it is therefore Ydrasse."

You were fine voting GL with Ydrasse for two irl days and also she wasn't in your inital pool to vote at the start of the day either as seen here:

I think I prefer to chop onwagon today

[5] Gamma Emerald :

Dunnstral, Bell, tea leaves, Isis, GuiltyLion

So you're sheeping Dunn's townread on GL, and as a result are going after Ydrasse because of the GL or Ydrasse being scum reasoning.

Okay, so if Ydrasse is a miselim, it would naturally follow you revert back to GL afterwards, because that is a dichotomy you used as the reasoning for voting Ydrasse who you previously hadn't mentioned suspecting before that.

BUT NO

At this point I want to kill Ydrasse, Morning Tweet, and tea leaves in some order

Morning Tweet

After a Ydrasse green flip, you would proceed to kill me and/or tea leaves. Now I'm pretty sure that pool of three hits either 0 scum or perhaps just Ydrasse at best. Either way, a Ydrasse green flip would cause me to believe that selection is all town

You didn't even pick tea, you picked me!! Your two independent reads this game have mostly been from what i can remember: Farren is town + Tea is scum

You don't townread Bell but you're willing to follow the crowd:

Bell posts a lot of vague solviness but I don't remember much that's like "wow this is town". And his townread on tealeaves is really weird.

Farren kind of treads the hard to fake territory more often as far as I can tell. If he actually has the track record of being bad at scum he says he does all the better

I'm exhausted and willing to just townlock Bell because everyone says we should. He hasn't done obvscum things or anything

You don't townread GL but you're willing to follow Dunn

You actively suspect tea leaves but you're killing Ydrasse over them because "GL or Ydrasse", and you're killing me over them too because ??????

am i misunderstanding anything in this series!?!?! How are you dropping GL from the kill pool?! Why do you want Ydrasse dead over TEA?? Why did you give your reasoning as "because GL vs. Ydrasse" when that isn't driving your vote at all, you're just unvoting GL because Dunn gave a TR him.

You suspect me, tea, and sort of Bell (You called him weird, you've never said anything about ydrasse today from what i can see?) more than Ydrasse and yet you're voting for Ydrasse right now for reasoning that doesn't even make sense with who you'd vote afterwards

.

ok i am finished. (´-ω-｀) tldr dont get why you're voting Ydrasse nor why you'd keep GL in the townbin afterwards

[Morning Tweet]

That's the sort of speech I expect to hear at an execution, or a call demanding one.

PEdit: MT's, not Isis's response.

Yeah that was unusually.. aggressive for me

I am considering the possibility of Isis being aligned with GL or Ydrasse. I felt like stuff wasn't adding up

i did have a suspicion it might just come from not going super tryhard so i couldnt consider it scummy. And maybe it is. idk

But Isis saying she'd execute ME after YDRASSE just made me confused enough to write out all my thoughts

[Morning Tweet]

I'm never confident :C

i was confident that Isis' progression is weird. But not enough to be like "Scum, gotem" because i dont know if it's scum or Isis being all over the place and taking the opportunity to (jokingly) bully me

I was also hoping her reaction would help but mmmmmmm

You only gave me 5 seconds, I scrolled up and the first name I found that I at least somewhat scumread was "morning tweet", as the title of the poster who had just posed the question

i meant that as in like, it's day 3, you have no time to reevaluate, pick your highest scumread after a Ydrasse green flip!!

not,

THINK FAST NAME SOMEONE RIGHT NOW

i meant for the time constraint to be on that day, not like while you're reading the question

[Morning Tweet]

It's so weird to me that Ydraase scum would just hop on a wagon like that unless she was bussing her partner. Like, she would know it's suspicious to do that right? Especially if it flipped town.
I kind of get the feeling we're going to get screwed here unless I do something to solve. But I don't see anything in particular that is screaming scum to me and there really, really should be. :?

There's some kind of conspiracy going on here

i don't think it's you or leaves.

If that's right, I just don't see why there isn't at least one clear scum in GL/Ydrasse/Isis/Farren

mmmmmmmmm

[Morning Tweet]

Ok I misunderstood the question and I thought you might mean it the other way but wasn't sure, you can see when I answered I was qualifying about that

So am i not the first person your instincts tell you to kill off in the hypothetical situation we kill Ydrasse today and she flips town?

[Morning Tweet]

Tweet, everytime you say speak to me in that way, I just think you're playing me for a sucker. :(

i just want u to solve the game

ik it's not fair

Idk maybe i made that post because i'm mutually frustrated about there being no obvscum. That's prolly why, sorry i didnt mean it like that

[Morning Tweet]

So weird when the entire game collectively agrees on two people being the scummiest, but it doesn't really seem like they could be with each other, and then literally NO ONE really stands out as being the odd one out in our group

So then inevitably it causes me to wonder if I've got everything wrong. But it just feels wrong to call Bell/tea scum, and Farren has a lot of moments I like. Isis isn't supposed to be scum though either so wtf?

Clearly I should just go over my reasons for townreading every person and find the weakest one, the one that turns out i never really had any concrete reasoning for so it got lost within the others. This has worked for me okay in the past

but that is so much effort. I don't even know if 1 arso in GL/Ydrasse is correct. But it has to be, right?

It seems to me we're dealing with GL/Isis, GL/Farren, or maybe Ydrasse/Isis as the team. I think the only way one of those teams is incorrect is if I'm being duped by tea or Bell but I can't really mess with that. I don't know what new light could be shone on me that reveals to me one of those two isn't town

I just.. is it really GL/Isis? Is as simple as my tea/Bell/Farren reads (and sort of the Ydrasse meta) being correct? Probably not

I say we get rid of guilty or Ydrasse, with that information, I will at least be 100% sure one of my reads is wrong if they end up flipping town. Kind of obvious, but there it is.

im already to the point where I'm like 95% one of the townreads is wrong. But also I don't really see flipping outside of GL/Ydrasse, **probably**

[Morning Tweet]

UNVOTE:

[Morning Tweet]

*idle squeaking noises*

[Morning Tweet]

has nobody come in with a "here's why both wagons are wrong"/"this is scum jumping on [x] wagon" sort of take? I'd expect to see at least one of those if it's TvT

I dont think so

the closest might be my big post calling Isis' reads on the wagoned players / who she wants to kill inconsistent

But I do believe one wagoned player is scum. If you're both town, there's two scum in tea/Bell/Farren/Isis which is a total bummer

[Morning Tweet]

Isis feels disorganized alright but i dont think that makes her scum -- I don't think she'd be as obvious as to be bussing her partner, see Dunn come in and say "I townread GL", and then be like "Oh well I guess it's not GL then" and swap off him.

Originally her answer to my question of who she'd eliminate after a green Ydrasse flip made me extremely worried-- I interpreted it as her saying she would eliminate me 100% after town Ydrasse, but now I think I just didnt word the question well enough

[Morning Tweet]

I'm playing around with the idea that I have way too many townreads because there really is only one scum inside of Bell/tea/Farren/Isis/Guilty, and I'm only avoiding voting Ydrasse because of a false metatell

If Ydrasse is scum here, that probably clears GL/Farren. I still do not think it's Bell. Could Ydrasse be paired with one of tea/Isis perhaps? Isis didn't really have game-related interactions with Ydrasse, just tons of fluffy ones, and tea placed Ydrasse quite high on their readslist initially, dropped her down after a while, but still kept GL/Dunn/Gamma lower and also definitely considered Farren D1.

today Isis joined the Guilty wagon but left quickly after the first sign of it potentially dying came (Dunn townreading GL), and tea did it even earlier (after Ydrasse naked voted GL). Not super surprising potential behaviour from a partner there

Am I missing anything that could disprove Ydrasse/Isis or Ydrasse/tea?

[Morning Tweet]

I think I'm talking myself into a Bell scumread

why are we sure he's town

I felt good about him D1 too but all he's done today is votepark me

What'd you think about his push on me at the start of the day? Bell just has a number of posts that tone as town really hard to me or some other garbage like that. i thought his entrance to the game was quite good yesterday although i havent reviewed it in a while

Am i going to have to review this read? BlehhhhhHHHH

I don't think I've interacted with Ydrasse in any way that should look associatively good. I like her as a person but I guess I mostly don't have good rebuttals to all the people scumreading her aside from a toneread so it's pretty natural that my relationship to her looks like could be buddies.

I think I've been independently towny this game though so you should be able to figure out I'm not scum with anyone

I almost want to say it's Ydrasse with tea. Almost.

I think if it is Ydrasse, it's not GL/Farren/mayyybe you as the partner. Leaving Bell/tea. One of those two is blindsiding me in that scenario but that's not a huge surprise, someone has to be

[Morning Tweet]

I will be seriously displeased if it's that

[Morning Tweet]

Seriously though, please don't partner me with Ydrasse, it's insulting. If I was scum this game, I would never have been able to pull that off with Ydrasse scum.
At least partner me with someone that makes sense.
Like tealeaves. :shifty:

Remind me, pull what off, exactly?

[Morning Tweet]

GuiltyLion: why are you trying to start a new wagon this late? Are you townreading Ydrasse, and if so, how strongly?

+1

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Ydrasse

[Morning Tweet]

like Ydrasse's partner could only be Isis, no?

I.... well...

It's not Dunn, it's not Farren, it's not me (i don't know if there's reasoning for it but it's not me), it's not Guilty, it's not Bell.............

Tea technically only started bussing Ydrasse after her X-1 vote onto Guilty, as far as i can tell? Tea wanted Gamma over Ydrasse just like most of the thread d1. Maybe that's a distancing play I suppose. There might be something else i forgot

Isis is similar i think but she switched to Tea first then Ydrasse

[Morning Tweet]

I'm playing around with the idea that I have way too many townreads because there really is only one scum inside of Bell/tea/Farren/Isis/Guilty, and I'm only avoiding voting Ydrasse because of a false metatell

If Ydrasse is scum here, that probably clears GL/Farren. I still do not think it's Bell. Could Ydrasse be paired with one of tea/Isis perhaps? Isis didn't really have game-related interactions with Ydrasse, just tons of fluffy ones, and tea placed Ydrasse quite high on their readslist initially, dropped her down after a while, but still kept GL/Dunn/Gamma lower and also definitely considered Farren D1.

today Isis joined the Guilty wagon but left quickly after the first sign of it potentially dying came (Dunn townreading GL), and tea did it even earlier (after Ydrasse naked voted GL). Not super surprising potential behaviour from a partner there

Am I missing anything that could disprove Ydrasse/Isis or Ydrasse/tea?

AH i forgot i already made a post on this

I mean, it could be the solution. Tea/Ydrasse

[Morning Tweet]

gah!!

Who's GL's partner, Ydrasse?

[Morning Tweet]

why not just ask her tomorrow?

cause we didn't elim her yet and idk if it'll influence my decision

[Morning Tweet]

ug

[Morning Tweet]

Le sigh.

Unless this is an attempt at demoralization prior to a red flip? Maybe? Hopefully?

No, that'd be too evil

[Morning Tweet]

okay lol

VOTE: tea

[Morning Tweet]

i havent reread much but my initial pool was Isis/tea

How is GL one of your top suspects over Isis?

[Morning Tweet]

i didnt realize i was on the chopping block

If you assume it's not Bell/Farren/Dunn (as i probably am going to), the pool remaining is Morning/tea/Isis/GL

Assuming Dunn doesn't save any trees, we're currently at 1 doused FF, 1 doused tree, 4 undoused trees, and 1 arso

miseliminating and the night phase goes to 1 doused FF, 2 doused trees, 2 undoused trees, and 1 arso

if we miseliminate an undoused tree then it's 1 doused FF, 2 doused trees, 1 undoused tree, and 1 arso and they ignite and we lose

So we can still only make 1 mistake meaning we only get 2 shots sooo I guess we still need to try and figure out who it is oops

[Morning Tweet]

There's only one miselim Isis

Assuming tea leaves' record of correctly townreading me remains unbroken, this game is over and my vote shall stay

Long story short i have a towntell that they've pointed out in every town game i've ever played and never seen it in any scum game of mine. Them not pointing it out this game is either the end of an era or they're scum

I was leaning voting tea but after their intro post i just had to do it

that's a kind of lame way to play ik so ill make sure i have it right later today or tomorrow if classwork eats me alive

Tldr i think Isis tone-wise comes off as townier to me but just reading her actions alone I guess there isn't anything that clears her

[Morning Tweet]

Tea did you have that case on me prepared?

A Ydrasse scumflip launches GL upwards

It also launches Farren and Bell upwards

im using associations -- of course my reads change drastically based on Ydrasses' alignment. i can clear people off of more than feels

So if Farren/GL/Bell are put in the "no touch pile", then it naturally would follow that whoever was at the top of my list before will be below them

i get the argument you're making but i feel you're ignoring how Ydrasse's interactions with certain players just makes me inclined to put them off the table

[Morning Tweet]

The scummy thing is how she sets ups her reads to change based on who flips. Like, here:

I'm playing around with the idea that I have way too many townreads because there really is only one scum inside of Bell/tea/Farren/Isis/Guilty, and I'm only avoiding voting Ydrasse because of a false metatell

If Ydrasse is scum here, that probably clears GL/Farren. I still do not think it's Bell. Could Ydrasse be paired with one of tea/Isis perhaps? Isis didn't really have game-related interactions with Ydrasse, just tons of fluffy ones, and tea placed Ydrasse quite high on their readslist initially, dropped her down after a while, but still kept GL/Dunn/Gamma lower and also definitely considered Farren D1.

today Isis joined the Guilty wagon but left quickly after the first sign of it potentially dying came (Dunn townreading GL),

and tea did it even earlier (after Ydrasse naked voted GL). Not super surprising potential behaviour from a partner there

Am I missing anything that could disprove Ydrasse/Isis or Ydrasse/tea?

I don't think a Ydrasse!scum flip should launch her top two townreads into her top two scumreads, I don't believe that's a genuine thought process, and some bussing/non-bussing suggestions should affect her reads so greatly.

Also, regarding the highlighted in orange: She says I voted Ydrasse "even earlier" like this is a suggestion that it's stronger evidence that I'm bussing, when infact it should it be the opposite.

Don't know about stronger but my point was that I could see either coming from a partner of Ydrasse. I meant that you did it even earlier than Isis, I didn't really mean that it's more suspicious, just that it's also valid bussing timing imo

Also why would it matter if i was trying to portray that as stronger evidence for bussing? Do i gain more from making you more suspicious than Isis? I'm not even sure what the point here is

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Guilty

hahah i got a spot on the wagon

This vote is also super strange. It comes after Ydrasse did that scummy L-1 vote on Hobbes, and we all discuss how scummy that is and momentum starts to shift back to Ydrasse from Hobbes. Queue Morning coming in putting Hobbes right back on L-1.

It was more like

>Ydrasse votes GL to L-1

*im talking about who GL's partner would even be, i talk about how i'd try to defend Ydrasse as scum*

>GL, Farren and tea vote Ydrasse

*im still talking about stuff like how Ydrasse's L-1 was blatantly scummy but I guess makes sense cause of previous reads. I give a readlist with GL/Ydrasse at the bottom. I continue to say there must be one arso in GL/Ydrasse. Honestly i did so much thought dumping here it's out of my scumrange*

>A votecount with GL at X-2 and Ydrasse at X-2 pops up

>And THEN i vote GL to X-1

You make it sound like I was coming to her rescue / jumping on the GL wagons moments later when in reality a did a ton of thought dumping that should *probably* make me obvtown for you

And I unvoted a few pages later anyway as a result of talking with Isis for a while which made me feel like i had something totally wrong

if I were scum I'd have either continued to push GL/Isis or have bussed Ydrasse earlier and harder -- tiptoeing between both forever and not really being sure would make me look infinitely worse

[Morning Tweet]

So yeah I still don't think it's Isis and now I'm kind of tunneled onto tea. My apologies

What happened to your Bell suspicions, tea?

[Morning Tweet]

Ydrasse at that point seemed to think tea leaves was an acceptable candidate for not-her. Makes tea leaves look better.

this is on the presumption that dunn is uncc'd + if it is and i'm asleep everyone can strongarm an elim on him through regardless

VOTE: guiltylion

town dunn makes me feel better about tea + that vote a while back. my working brain completely brushed over the fact gl had said that thing about me + dunn. i don't like how he was ready to switch to me at any point were the signs there and then didn't really do much about it when i joined a wagon that he was also on. even if he thinks that we don't make sense together i'd think that someone would be a little more worried about their Strongest (?) scumread hopping on with them.

p-edit: ya that's fine with me

She had a post not too far back saying she feels better about tea leaves and voted for GL. I think it's very likely GL was actually who Ydrasse wanted to be eliminated initially but she got backed up into having to vote tea

no one could have predicted Bell was going to flip flop off of Ydrasse onto Gamma. At that point it had seemed like Ydrasse or Tea, one needs to go, and if Ydrasse avoided the tea wagon it'd have looked odd down the line. I dont think this should be points for tea

She couldn't really hard bus tea either because she was decently town on tea judging from this GL post.

ugh

VOTE: tea leaves

it reads to me that she was giving GL her best shot at eliminating until forced to go where the thread made her. Not necessarily scum indictative for tea but definitely not town indictative -- i think her hand is forced here

[Morning Tweet]

Funnily enough, you have half-towntold in this game, but I'm not sure whether I should count those as proper "towntells".

Depends if i half town-tell as scum then I suppose

If you're town i guess that means i am evolving (>ω<)

[Morning Tweet]

Funnily enough, you have half-towntold in this game, but I'm not sure whether I should count those as proper "towntells".

Depends if i half town-tell as scum then I suppose

If you're town i guess that means i am evolving (>ω<)

is this a scumslip

no

basically tea is using some kind of thing i do every town game to always tell what my alignment is -- this is something i'd like to break free from at some point

[Morning Tweet]

It's not Isis i think probably

Why are we writing off leaves -- seriously i need this explained to me like im six y.o. i guess because whatever it is im missing it and i am sorry for that

[Morning Tweet]

I will never, ever use a game thread to communicate with a partner to offset daytalk not being available, because the risks in that rather plainly outweigh the rewards. I forget/forgot daytalk isn't available most of this game, but Tweet being very sharp on that at certain points is one of the things that seems scum indicative for her.

it was one of the first things that stood out to me when i rolled scum initially. i tried to open the PT link but it wouldnt lemme in, i assumed that was because it wasnt night yet but i think either gl or farren mentioned talking in there so i guess i just didnt get access during the first roll

[Morning Tweet]

I disagree the strategy dynamic is to trust me and chop tea leaves first

[Morning Tweet]

and yes I saw that Bell mentioned Ydrasse bullied tea apparently so I'll go back and revisit later

But the thing Farren pointed out does not do it for me at all

[Morning Tweet]

can you tell i don't respond to pressure well

I have mounds of trig homework to be doing but instead im here doing scumslips and other things

[Morning Tweet]

I'm still taking notes cause i was under the false impression i had yesterday off and the deadline for everything would be pushed one day

[Morning Tweet]

That makes me feel a little better

[Morning Tweet]

honestly I want to see how Morning Tweet responds to cos(x)+sin(x)= 1 and all of you are denying me the spectacle

(・ω・；)

[Morning Tweet]

i should probably go reread the game again before I say it. But I do think that isis genuinely didn't Realize she wasn’t voting Ydrasse. Which points away from scum her.

yeah I thought that too

[Morning Tweet]

pagetop :]

I'll do some real posting/playing tomorrow, but I'm leaning Isis today. If it's TL/Ydrasse, they'd have to have been both voting me early D2, then tea leaves moved off me to vote Ydrasse instead, I'm not sure I really see scum!agenda in that move. and Isis ramping up posting/activity so far just today feels like a shift compared to D2

I need to reread MT as well though

Yeah but tea did it after the wonky Ydrasse naked X-1 vote

If you had been hammered yesterday, Ydrasse was coming next for sure. Need to play the long game as her partner I'd think

Now, that begs the question, "Why not start off bussing Ydrasse first then? Why GL into Ydrasse?". Well, getting GL killed first would be optimal considering he probably wont get eliminated if Ydrasse is elimed first and generally they're losing a whole miselim chance.

Tea started the day off pushing GL -- they were the main proprietor of the GL wagon to begin with. It certainly seemed like it was possible to get away with, and if they could, thatd be fantastic

but about the bus itself. if the team is Ydrasse/tea, there is already some distancing done. theyre also in dire straits. On day 1, Ydrasse had to vote for the second largest wagon, tea leaves, out of survivalism. They could not have had high hopes during the night phase considering they were the 2nd and 3rd most popular wagons the previous day.

Pushing guilty and then falling back into a bus if they have to sounds just abt right to me. I think after the naked X-1, tea (and this would apply to Isis too sure) made a judgment call to abandon ship

Looking at Ydrasse on tea D1 now.. she townread clidd early. She has a decent stretch where she votes tea, this is probably the best looking area for them not being a team. But she didnt really bother to give any reasoning until tea leaves themself invited her to do so (738) and it's not much more than "Your vote feels weird". Now tea asks her again to explain more, and what follows is probably the strongest post against the tea/leaves team idea (844). Probably the best explanation ydrasse gives for the read, although it took some asking to get there, and she didnt put it out there of her own volition which weakens the seriousness of it a bit for me

and then she switches to dunn in her next post

She makes up some reasoning for switching to Dunnstral (despite Isis and Gamma being against tea still) when it gets actually down to it. She switches back to tea down the line but seems unhappy about it and calls them maybe less towny than others but not scum. She was out of places to vote and had to pick tea at that point and for whatever reason she's not finding tea as scummy now

Am I misinterpreting anything or missing something? i dont quite think they have clearing interactions whereas i think Farren/GL do from what i remember, Bell has some and also I independently TR him big, and Isis it's sort of a soul thing but i think her tone as been towny for lack of better explanation. Maybe im crazy abt her

I'd probably sooner call myself scum over a lot of this game, it felt like Ydrasse had a ton of interactions with plenty others that feels like "Oh, no way they distance like that" whereas with me, I feel like we barely spoke. So someone is distancing her (unless it's Isis, she didnt really have that) and i think it's likely tea

Now i was probably gonna wait and do some reviewing of GL/Farren and whoever to make sure I am remembering all of the interactions correctly, but tea entering the day without their towntell on me nice and ready? impossible!!

[Morning Tweet]

On day 1, Ydrasse had to vote for the second largest wagon, tea leaves, out of survivalism. They could not have had high hopes during the night phase considering they were the 2nd and 3rd most popular wagons the previous day.

Pushing guilty and then falling back into a bus if they have to sounds just abt right to me. I think after the naked X-1, tea (and this would apply to Isis too sure) made a judgment call to abandon ship

Ydrasse has to bus her scum partner out of survivalism? Think about what you just said there.

For Ydrasse and I to be scum we've both voted each in day phases where the vote made us the leading wagon and was basically the "intent to kill" vote. On D1, there were other viable wagons, Ydrasse doesn't have to bus there. I certainly wouldn't want to be bussed in that situation, and I don't think Ydrasse is the type of player who would want to either.

On D2, Ydrasse was on 2 votes and GuiltyLion was on 4 when I pivoted to Ydrasse. Once again that's the big vote which largely affects who's getting launched. You say Ydrasse had just done her scummy L-1 votex but you forget that you were infact defending this vote and suggesting in places it could be "too scummy to be scum".

Hold on let me pull it up

Spoiler: The aftermath of Dunn's claim (warning BIG quote wall)

Hi, I'm the firefighter. Let's eliminate Ydrasse

VOTE: Ydrasse

Let's get Ydrasse.
If her ghost haunts me,
well, I'll deserve it.

I suppose I find it pretty unusual Ydrasse hasn't devoted any time to fighting to stay alive (either by defending herself, or more likely, by creating/pushing someone else with a lengthy case).

She usually has many large solvey posts, and my theory on it was that she feels under pressure to play when she thinks her death will result in a loss to her team. She doesn't have a single one of these posts so far this game

But that's not really an end-all reason to know she's town, it is possible any number of circumstances cause her to play differently, ig it's just my somewhat educated guess

And then on the other side there's tea leaves who I also don't really think is scum. But it's not my turn to choose! I already picked wrong unless GL has a surprise for us

this is on the presumption that dunn is uncc'd + if it is and i'm asleep everyone can strongarm an elim on him through regardless

VOTE: guiltylion

town dunn makes me feel better about tea + that vote a while back. my working brain completely brushed over the fact gl had said that thing about me + dunn. i don't like how he was ready to switch to me at any point were the signs there and then didn't really do much about it when i joined a wagon that he was also on. even if he thinks that we don't make sense together i'd think that someone would be a little more worried about their Strongest (?) scumread hopping on with them.

p-edit: ya that's fine with me

What do you guys think of Gamma,
If, hypothetically I waffled.

i already posted where gamma rested in my reads but he was the lightest of my trs

meh, it's more like my read on tea rested a lot on that vote which implicitly defended dunn, but given that he's most likely FF i can more feasibly believe that tea's vote really was to just create pressure in multiple places.

listen to your heart

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I'm not the firefighter

VOTE: Ydrasse

VOTE: Ydrasse
If I'm wrong I'll probably get executed at some point but I think this is a the right choice

VOTE: tea leaves

What Bell said last night - tea leaves' response to Ydrasse's pressure was nervous.

VOTE: tea leaves

VOTECOUNT 1.7

Burned Out

[3] Ydrasse :

Bell, GuiltyLion, Gamma Emerald

[2] tea leaves :

Farren, Isis

[1] Gamma Emerald :

Dunnstral

[1] Dunnstral :

tea leaves

[1] GuiltyLion :

Ydrasse

[1] Not Voting :

Morning Tweet

With 9 in play, it takes 5 votes to exile.

The Day 1 deadline is in: (expired on 2020-08-28 01:03:10)

ugh

VOTE: tea leaves

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

VOTE: Gamma

I'd heavily prefer Gamma over Ydrasse too. Join us, Ydrasse!!!

VOTE: gamma

VOTE: tea leaves
There’s stronger reason imo for Ydrasse to be scum but I’m not gonna let myself get eliminated with how things are going down rn

VOTECOUNT 1.8

Flares

[4] Gamma Emerald :

Dunnstral, Bell, tea leaves, Isis

[3] tea leaves :

Farren, Ydrasse, Gamma Emerald

[1] Ydrasse :

GuiltyLion

[1] Not Voting :

Morning Tweet

With 9 in play, it takes 5 votes to exile.

The Day 1 deadline is in: (expired on 2020-08-28 01:03:10)

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Survivalism isn't exactly what i mean

Ydrasse had intent to kill Dunn, then intent to kill Guilty after the claim. She only had intent to kill tea after that devastating VC where tea and her were the top wagons. Survivalism -- more like, point of no return? Not sure what to call it. The part where it seemed like she was going to die or tea was going to die.

Would you try to start up the Gamma wagon in that situation after Bell says "ehhhh maybe I'll flipflop"? No, you'd probably vote your partner and pray that either the distancing you get is huge OR hope that someone comes in with a deus ex machina and flashwagons Gamma for you. Remember, Ydrasse has at least 3-4 people adamantly wanting her dead, and tea has at least Isis but also probably Gamma who are vocal in their scumreads.

Ydrasse had just spent a post justifying her Guilty vote by explaining that she doesn't think tea is scummy anymore, so the reversal onto tea is really awkward here. I will admit i'd kind of want a double bus to be way more convincing than this, but I do think it would have been strange if she did a huge 180 from "Yeah I don't think that thing from tea is scummy anymore" to "KILL TEA NOW". So she ends up with a sort of awkward "Ugh okay I'll vote tea"

Tea never had intent to kill Ydrasse at any point during this period as far as I can tell. They actually go a little overboard defending her with a "I heavily prefer Gamma over Ydrasse. Join us Ydrasse!" post which does sort of town ping but I don't think we're exciting tea's scumrange.

so i don't think it's true Ydrasse ever voted you with intent to kill, EXCEPT when the thread reached a point where either she or you were gonna die. Before that happened, she clearly wanted Dunn and Guilty dead.

-

Now as for you on Ydrasse. You never had intent to kill her day 1 unless im seriously missing it. On day 2, you certainly did once she placed the 4th vote on GL. Now -- even though you switched to Ydrasse, you never gave up the idea of GL being scum, even now you think GL may be scum with her. In essence you're getting the best of both worlds, you're distancing Ydrasse and keeping GL in the conversation.

Had you stayed on GL and gotten him killed, well, Ydrasse is coming next. So she dies next and everybody's thinking "Who doesn't have clearing interactions with Ydrasse?" You wouldn't have any if it weren't for that X-1 switch you did to her. This isn't a terrible outcome because at least you just need one miselim to win, although I'd imagine it'd be somewhat tough

Had you stayed on GL and some others had switched to Ydrasse before you, leaving you either on GL or as the hammer on Ydrasse, you're now down a partner and don't have clearing interactions with Ydrasse, you're going to lose. You're risking this happening if you don't vote her. It's a huge gamble to try and finish off GL because Ydrasse IS next.

And finally, by switching to Ydrasse (while keeping GL in your pool of suspects even now), you can grab cred for bussing Ydrasse seemingly very early when she was going to die anyway, AND you don't lose the opportunity to kill GL, or at least that's the idea.

-

...i really need to read into some other players sometime. maybe finish my english essay too

I think that in a vacuum your interactions are not terrible. However, that applies to literally every player except Isis and myself. I do not think it is Isis. I struggle to find super strong clearing interactions whereas for GL i'd be very surprised if it's him. Bell I really strongly think is town. There's.. who is there.. just Farren left out of everyone then?

[Morning Tweet]

Reason being scum!Morning takes great care in what she writes. I think scum!her sees how that can be interpreted as a scumslip (I am evolving if you are town because I am scum this game and half town-slipped) while town!her writes whatever.

i think to a large extent I feel like the burden is on the reader to read someone correctly (for the most part -- the readed player still needs to provide adequate content, but you get the idea), so as town I make almost no alterations to what i say in order to appear less scummy even if something looks off or could be interpreted as a scumslip

In the case of that post I was like "Yeah.. this could be misinterpreted... but if someone calls it out as a scumslip I'm just going to roll my eyes and carry on."

maybe i'm wrong and you should craft posts more carefully as town too, you owe that to your faction or something. I feel like stream of consciousness is the best way to show I'm town

[Morning Tweet]

Yeah, I don’t think it’s tealeaves. Enough where i’m Gunna put him out of the running. I’m probably not going to vote him this game

enlighten me pls (人・ω・)

[Morning Tweet]

Mountains or sea.

Morning Tweet, I want you to look at these four cards and point out one to say, "This one feels like me". I want you to just pick naturally. There are no wrong answers, okay?

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

i don't play any of those colours.

loki is looking very cute today though

[Morning Tweet]

So let's say it's Ydrasse/tea leaves.

No daytalk, so no coordination.

Does Ydrasse decide that - of the two of them - she's in the better position to take it home for scum? Or does she think there's no chance tea leaves gets killed?

Both of those things sound dubious.

I don't think those are the only two options. She doesn't need to think there's a 0% chance tea leaves gets killed in order to vote them, and she doesn't need to think she's in a better spot to vote them either

Although if i had to guess, i'd say she probably thought she'd die first and it was a distancing move in that direction

Either way it's not a bad idea to give your partner one last gift before dying, whether it's you or them that dies