Open 779: Pick Your Power X/Y Game Over!

[Melody]

11. Datisi - 1
12. Dunnstral - 1
13. DonCorleone - 1
14. Clemency - 1

This is the scumteam. Ingenious really. No one ever expects the "triple stack on 1 to secure bottom spots for

WIFOM

" play.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Finger of Suspicion

on DoctarMiranda. We believe he might be scum sent to take us down from securing 5th place.

~Dawn

[Melody]

@Cats; Farkran always does readlists early regardless of alignment. Do any of the reads look forced/TMI to you or do you just dislike the action itself?

~Dawn

[Melody]

What would be a reaction showing a "town mindset" to your top 4 thing?

~Dawn

[Melody]

VOTE: Drew

Shadiest doctor I could find in the playerlist. Popping in to vote and call out Farkran for doing "busywork", especially when others had already suggested it is an eh from me.

~Dawn

[Melody]

I think taking the position that the 1-shot Vig should claim is a bit of a weird move by Dunn. I didn't really follow why, but i still lean town on it cause it seems like a really strange scum play.

I agree with Don that Dunn's theory doesn't really hold up. Disagree with suspecting Dunn for it though.

Leaning TvT on Don v. Dunn, which leads me to skitter. She also leans TvT on it. You win this time skitts

I like Datisi begrudgingly townleaning skitter lol

Dislike Cat's reaction to Fark's readslist. Obviously she's right on the point that the top 3 have no reason to be town, but the added on "Why did you feel the need to make a readslist?" feels like overkill. What are you hoping to accomplish asking that question? I see Cat's follow-up is that the readslist could be "scum trying to look busy". i disagree on the basis of suspecting people for early readslists >:x

Disagree with Aldus for suspecting Dunn of trying to find the PGO (as scum). that doesn't seem like a good scum play to me.

~Evening

[Melody]

plot twist: doctor drew is a hydra of doctorpepper and drew-sta and also doctor drew

Don't forget about Nancy Drew

~Dawn

[Melody]

I don't know where all these allegations are coming from, but I'd to make it very clear that my main is TrueSoulEnergy.

~Dawn

[Melody]

I have a day guilty on the Kerset head of Farkset. I might just be bluffing though, so scum won't know whether to day roleblock me or not.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Jacko reads as pretty genuine. Scum wouldn't be so clueless over the process given they would've been discussing it in the PT.

We actually meant to submit 1 btw, but I hit the key twice and didn't notice in time for the EBWOP.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Being vocal does not equal 'trying to be town leader.

I said I wasn't counting votes and skimming because I wasn't counting votes and skimming. Your posts stuck out the most and I felt that at the very least I should at least kick the tires on you. Now you are being so worried about being lynched, and I see that you(and I btw) are only at L-5!

where do you get the idea that Farkset is worried about being lynched from?

~Evening

[Melody]

I want to townread DoctarVimto for coming in and pushing Fark for the "trying to look productive" thing after seeing people getting shot down and Drew getting wagoned for it.

~Dawn

[Melody]

You left us out of your reads, Fark.

I'm liking these recent posts from Don, though I might just be pocketed by his avatar.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Do you prefer being called Fark or Farkran, Fark/Farkran?

~Dawn

[Melody]

I like Don, Fark, Dunn, and Datisi the most i think. Jackson and skitts are an additional, but smaller degree of town

Don's 206 is good, i like the wariness on Datisi although i disagree. To answer the question he had, I meant that i reacted in a similar way as Datisi to skitts (Oh skitts seems towny, but skitts always seems towny so im not happy about it). I like the not scumreading drew, the readslist, and the comment about not lynching a content heavy slot

I like Fark's response to me about Cat's take. Saying that they always get scumread by town for early readslists wasn't what i'd expect as a scum answer, i'd expect them to just say it's NAI without the "always by town" part. like the responses to dr drew

Datisi mmm this one's kinda unsure. I was thinking of Datisi as a townlean cause of his townreads being pretty good, I like that he included skitter in them rather than just writing off skitter as null. he realizes skitts is a good scum player, but townreads her anyway. Fark's content-indicative theory on Datisi im willing to sheep for now as well. (Also Pedit I see datisi arguing against the motivation-indictative tell which also makes me feel better about Datisi being town)

As for the smaller ones: Jackson, i lean on their entrance being genuine, which would make them town since scum should understand how the setup works after going thru the draft phase. Plus they admitted having played the setup before and still getting it wrong. it seems less likely to be a lie to me. Skitts should be null but im townleaning anyway. I guess because i have the same townleans as her

I was gonna include alimdia as a townlean for the "Why are people assuming Farkset is busyworking?" comment, but the vote on skitter seems a bit weird, kinda just seems like a distraction, the reasoning wasn't that good. Alimdia himself doesn't even sound convinced after datisi points out why it doesn't make sense: "Idk, her not voting one of the other people in the pool (even in RVS) is a bit weird." Why do that over joining one of the wagons

~Evening

[Melody]

Also, we're sheeping RC if he has any strong scumreads today.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Datisi mmm this one's kinda unsure. I was thinking of Datisi as a townlean cause of his townreads being pretty good, I like that he included skitter in them rather than just writing off skitter as null. he realizes skitts is a good scum player, but townreads her anyway. Fark's content-indicative theory on Datisi im willing to sheep for now as well. (Also Pedit I see datisi arguing against the motivation-indictative tell which also makes me feel better about Datisi being town)

why is this one unsure if everything you listed about me was positive?

It kinda started out as unsure with just the skitter read reasoning but then i just kept finding more reasons to townread u as i went through =ω=

~Evening

[Melody]

Melody, I asked for scumreads and you only gave townreads...?

Also RC isn't in this game. (I'm prepared for a woooooosh if I'm missing an inside joke.)

RCEnigma's alt is in this game. I'm not outing him.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Melody, I asked for scumreads and you only gave townreads...?

We'll get to this in a bit.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Small scum impressions:
Cats and Alim for reasons stated in 136 and 232.

Drew's is more of a tone read. Want to let that one fester and mould before we get an accurate sample from it. Not sure what to make of him doubling down and defending his take on Fark. It could've been easy to back off given he said he was skimming, so that might actually be a little towny.

Dunn seems to be overthinking the cop claim a bit(ftr, I don't love the timing of the claim but I want to let it breath a bit), but I do think Don is twisting Dunn's words and assuming his intentions a bit. I lean town on Dunn. And since I mentioned them, null to slight scum on Don, but as I said I want the claim to breath a bit before I am moved one way or another.

Also, while, reISOing, I found this which might be towny as well. Surely one scum member in the PT would've pointed out it's obviously a joke, so this might be some towny ignorance.

Might need to find another vote.

~Dawn

[Melody]

VOTE: Dunnstral
I feel like a lot of people are doing unnecessary claims or setup spec and it's just giving scum more clues about town PRs and of those people dunnstral is the worst

Is that anti-town or actually scummy though? Do you think Dunny taking the cop claim seriously and going hard down the 1-shot vig clam line is scum-motivated? Like, he thinks scum can get an advantage if he gets 1-shot vig to claim.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Melody, I asked for scumreads and you only gave townreads...?

Also RC isn't in this game. (I'm prepared for a woooooosh if I'm missing an inside joke.)

RCEnigma's alt is in this game. I'm not outing him.

~Dawn

Oh. Gotcha.

That... might change things, if i got it right. I think i only played once with RCE, but i toneread him town when he's scum.

Also uhm, what's your thoughts about andusk? You are answering him but you left him out.

-Farkran

Not a fan of his reasoning for the Dunny-vote, pending further evaluation. Not much else from him yet.

RCEnigma is great. His profile picture in this game is so much better than the one he has on his main rn.

~Dawn

[Melody]

VOTE: Alduskkel

Let's try it.

~Dawn

[Melody]

i'm not vibing the aldu votes really, i don't get why they're a thing

VOTE: almidia

Why do you disagree?

@Drew:

Don's hardclaim cop post was a joke that far too many people too seriously. If it's a real cop claim and he's actually just a WIFOM-god, hats off to him.

~Dawn

[Melody]

As for the smaller ones: Jackson, i lean on their entrance being genuine, which would make them town since scum should understand how the setup works after going thru the draft phase. Plus they admitted having played the setup before and still getting it wrong. it seems less likely to be a lie to me.

This seems somewhat pockety since I am a newer player compared to majority of you I assume, especially in this setup but I would have been just as confused as either alignment so sure it seems genuine but how is that AI as me being Town?

If this is genuine, it means you're town:

Man, you guys are so focused on picking numbers, I just closed my eyes and hit a button on my number pad. Confirmed second most effective method to pick a number.

Everyone is all like "Think for optimization" and I'm just like "Thinking sucks!"

I just picked a random number O.O
Was I not supposed to? Oof

As explained, scum can discuss during pregame, so they won't just submit a "random number". Currently, I'm leaning towards genuine.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Why do you disagree?

i just like don't get it, idk
he feels similar to neon mafia
i don't know why he's being scumread; or more accurately, i'm not sure he's getting scumread for anything more than playstyle/personality traits

What about the Dunny vote; how is that reflective of his playstyle/personality, rather than him pursuing what he thinks is scummy?

~Dawn

[Melody]

Are people scared of skitter because of her Moment of Brilliance? It's just one moment guys, pssh big deal.

~Dawn

[Melody]

What about the Dunny vote; how is that reflective of his playstyle/personality, rather than him pursuing what he thinks is scummy?

i guess i don't entirely understand why you're viewing it as a scummy vote

Probably better to let Aldu reply than to go too much further into it.

~Dawn

[Melody]

You guys are mean. I'm heading back to Johto.

~Dawn

[Melody]

I think part of skitter's success as scum are a lot of the takes she takes are vibes and gut ones, which are hard to read into. And since her tone seems to be NAI between alignments, you need to read her further down the line when she more content outside of that.
Kind of off-topic, but do you think that's a fair assessment, skitter?

~Dawn

[Melody]

I agree with Melody, but are you saying that because you have good tone as scum that I'm wrong? :thonk:

also are you saying you agree with me about melody or that you agree with something melody said?

I think Melody is scum, so I agree with you on that

What do you disagree with in 273?

~Dawn

[Melody]

I agree with Melody, but are you saying that because you have good tone as scum that I'm wrong? :thonk:

also are you saying you agree with me about melody or that you agree with something melody said?

I think Melody is scum, so I agree with you on that

What do you disagree with in 273?

~Dawn

Nothing in that post specifically, but I'm fairly good at faking ignorance on specific mechanics etc as shown on my main FM site games so again what you're town-leaning me on is NAI

Interesting! I want to pursue this because I'm trying to figure out if your paranoia is real. You said you would be "confused as either alignment so sure it seems genuine but how is that AI as me being Town" in 263. Now that we've established the confusion if genuine is town-indicative, what do you find us scummy for? Not checking your meta and seeing you're good at townslips?

~Dawn

[Melody]

And how is it established that the genuine confusion is Town AI, when I just said that it's NAI?

Genuine confusion about submitting a random number is NAI because scum would've been strategic over their choices in their PT, we've been over this Jacko m8.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Eh, I don't know if Jacko is as genuine now. I don't get what he's misunderstanding.

~Dawn

[Melody]

I don't see how picking a random number is AI even with a discussion with mafia buddies. Is there like a specific way to abuse the Draft in a sense?

Mafia won't pick random numbers. They're going to go for unique numbers that preferably don't overlap (obv because otherwise they'd place low by picking the same number), and they'll probably have some discussion as to what numbers are least commonly picked and low... etc

~Dawn

[Melody]

Melody, I think it was brought up, but are you a secret Hydra?

...yes

~Dawn

[Melody]

Melody, I think it was brought up, but are you a secret Hydra?

...yes

~Dawn

Super duper.

Have both heads been posting consistently?

Yeah, we've been signing as "Dawn" and "Evening". Why do you ask, doc?

~Dawn

[Melody]

i'm assuming that all of {both melody heads and don corleone} have played with me before?

Yep, you've rolled scum against me more often than town lol. I don't think Evening's played with you(?) but she can verify that.

~Dawn

[Melody]

God, I find your tone so scummy, Drew :p
Might need to recheck your meta.

What accusations are you talking about? About pocketing? We're just being transparent about reads, there's not much else to it.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Small scum impressions:Cats and Alim for reasons stated in 136 and 232.Drew's is more of a tone read. Want to let that one fester and mould before we get an accurate sample from it.

My Drew toneread hasn't changed. It's other stuff he did I found towny.

Basically, Drew, I find you're more confrontational and less jokey as town, while as scum you have this "afraid to step on any toes" vibe to you, and you're a lot more friendly in a way? This is based on my meta last I played with you which was a while ago.

~Dawn

[Melody]

How does your Arsonist tone compare to your 3p cult tone?

~Dawn

[Melody]

How does your Arsonist tone compare to your 3p cult tone?

~Dawn

Arsonist?

Nice "slip" there, Arsonist.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Arsonist

~Dawn

[Melody]

How does your Arsonist tone compare to your 3p cult tone?

~Dawn

Arsonist?

Nice "slip" there, Arsonist.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Arsonist

~Dawn

Oh shit, one of the few 3p roles I haven't been.......someone make a game with arsonist in it.

And you sure you were in a scum game with me?

Okay, I just checked some old games and it's not as clear cut as what I said. I had town!you from that boon game in my head where you were going at Nancy aggressively. But I just had a look at autobattler and jester nightless and that doesn't fit what I said. Disregard and recruit away please.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Kinda wanted to say Alimdia's 338 felt forced like the skitts argument at the beginning. But I think i can see the argument. "You listed two scumreads, didn't vote either, then later voted a completely different person after Dunn voted them".

Small scum impressions:
Cats and Alim for reasons stated in 136 and 232.

@alimdia re 338, wasn't the "need to find another vote" saying they want to vote someone besides Drew?
VOTE: clemency

ye but they said me and cats are scummy.
Why not vote one of us?

what scum motivation do you think there was behind not voting one or the other in the same post? Especially considering Cat, Alim, and Aldus were probably all at 0 votes at the time

~Evening

[Melody]

VOTE: Cat

~Evening

[Melody]

Our vote switched to Cats because of some hydra dissonance lul

Melody, what made you want to vote me rather than waiting for me to post more?

I questioned you because I disliked that post, and a vote on you for pressure was better than anywhere else. Cats/the other slot we mentioned were pretty small scum impressions.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Aldu, so you think Dunny is openwolfing in a sense by trying to get the 1-shot vig to claim? He doesn't read that way to me, and I think the positives associated with trying to force an anti-town claim are outweighed by the negatives of the hit your appearance takes.

~Dawn

[Melody]

what was the hydra dissonance?

I (Dawn) voted for Aldu. Evening voted for Cats. As much as I'd love to have perfect aligning reads on a telepathic level, we're not quite there yet.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Ok so why is cats a bigger scum impression than me now?pedit: this is all @melody

I don't really have you both on a scale so to speak, you're both unsures. I don't get your Dunny suspicions but I can see the logic behind your push so I don't think that's bad faith. Probably.

~Dawn

[Melody]

what do each of you feel about the person you didn't vote

(i.e. dawn on cats and evening on aldu)?

We agreed on Cats. I'll ask Evening what she thinks of Aldu.

~Dawn

[Melody]

but I can see the logic behind your push so I don't think that's bad faith. Probably.

*push on us

[Melody]

-FarkranWell this feels weird. Melody just said I was "pending further evaluation" but then votes me, and then I don't know what to make of Farkset's vote. I doubt Farkset-Melody scumbuddies do this tho, unless that's exactly what they want me to think (but probably not).

Melody, what made you want to vote me rather than waiting for me to post more?

What do you find so strange about this, Aldu? By "pending further evaluation" it means I saw something I disliked and questioned you about it. How else would you expect me to use my vote rather than to pressure slots I'm unsure about? Especially since I was voting Drew who I started changing my mind on.

~Dawn

[Melody]

I mean look at Dunnstral's iso. He tried to get a PR to claim and then got flak for it and has been laying low ever since. The only "scumhunting" he's done is casting aspersions on me for voting him.

what's not to get

The law low point is fair. I just disagree with the basis of the push; I read Dunny's intentions for the vig to claim as more genuine.

~Dawn

[Melody]

thats my bad

what do each of you feel about the person you didn't vote

(i.e. dawn on cats and evening on aldu)?

I think early on i didn't like the scumreads that Dunn was receiving (Aldus being one). i'm not really sure disagreeing with him on Dunn is valid reason to scumread him yet. also for some reason i thought i heard someone make a meta case for Aldus being town, unsure if I got that confused with someone else but I had Aldus as closer to town in my mind earlier

i saw the mounting wagon on cat w/ skitts n datisi on it and went "ooh i like everything about that" and joined it for pressure. but i let up on Aldus in doing so. oops

i really should have read the thread more carefully, sorry again abt that

~Evening

[Melody]

Melody you voted drew and aldu before, i think that with intend to pressure. What kind of conclusions did you gather from your previous pushes?
~ker

Also don't ignore my other head please

-Farkran

I already answered this in other posts. Aldu vote switch thing we've explained. Drew I think is towny now.

~Dawn

[Melody]

I don't see why would people like melody. So far they showed 0 independent though.
~ker

Wow, Chiaki. I disagree.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Dats could be scum here.

You claim to push CSF but like you could have literally pushed half the player base you claim is inactive (not unwarranted but CSF feels like a lazy vote, the slot isn't particularly active and Skitter literally just voted)

Also lol, weirdly enough melody's recent posting has given me gut town vibes. I'm more inclined to read hydra dissonance as townie, I mean it could be faked but idk i feel like it's something I would do in my hydras as well

VOTE: Alimdia

Is Alim a bigger scumread than Datisi?

~Dawn

[Melody]

At the top of page 19, I like Peppur. Will catch up on rest later.

skitter, Evening will probably answer your question (I'm not town leaning you).

~Dawn

[Melody]

Oh wait, also Farkran, could you explain why you think worse of us now compared to before?

~Dawn

[Melody]

I'm trying to get reoriented to the player list to see who is getting replaced, but the mod's latest message was not helpful.

Kinda dislike this as an excuse to not produce content. I don't think having a good grasp on who's being replaced is required to contribute with active players.

~Dawn

[Melody]

I don't like Aldus' last post for actual content reasons. The whole thing of "ask me a question and wait for me to respond before unvoting me" seems manufactured and not townie.

I like this though.

It feels like Aldu is getting too hung up about our vote on him when it's clear the vote wasn't really that important. Not sure if I'm viewing this through OMGUS-tinted visors though.

~Dawn

[Melody]

@Skitts My post earlier abt townleaning you and Datisi -- I had towny feelings about you at the beginning of the game, but I know you're scary as scum so I have a sort of paranoia about it.

I noticed Datisi said something similar, thats why i said "I like how Datisi grudgingly townleans skitts". I townread you, but you're closer to the bottom of the list because i feel like i'd townread you as scum as well. I also liked that Datisi thought abt it the same way as me

As for the reasoning behind the townread itself, I liked townreading Don and the draft pick analysis

~Evening

[Melody]

Town Lean //
Dunnstral - Taking joke cop claim seriously, asking 1-shot vig to claim feels genuine.
DonCorleone
Doctor Drew - After checking some meta, this looks a lot more like his town game.


Town Incline //
Farkset - Pushing stuff forward, we think we might get why he did the mech townlean on high spot pickers.
DoctorPepper - Meta.
Alimdia - His logic for picking 2 because he thought scum would cockblock people picking 1 felt genuine.


Null //
Clemency
Brassherald
Skitter30
Datisi


Null-Scum? //
Cat Scratch Fever
JacksonVirgo - Liked his initial confusion. Dislike him not understanding why his confusion isn’t NAI, felt like he might’ve been playing dumb there. Dislike him continuing to scumread us for it.
Alduskkel - Dislike attack on Dunny (painting something which might be anti-town as scum-motivated). Dislike reasons for push back on us, the timing of the vote argument reads as fabricated.

VOTE: Alduskkel

~Dawn & Evening

[Melody]

What do you find so strange about this, Aldu? By "pending further evaluation" it means I saw something I disliked and questioned you about it. How else would you expect me to use my vote rather than to pressure slots I'm unsure about? Especially since I was voting Drew who I started changing my mind on.

~Dawn

I thought you'd wait for me to respond/post more so you could do the further evaluation and then decide whether or not to vote me.

Like, I'd expect town to either wait to vote me and/or after voting me not move the vote elsewhere so soon.

Talk about this more in particular, Aldu. I want to know why you're getting so hung up over that vote on you.

>We were voting for Drew, I started thinking he was town. Said I needed a new vote.
>I find something you did I disliked, question you on it.
>Someone agrees with me.
>I vote for you, using my vote as pressure.

What's so strange about this?

~Dawn

[Melody]

Datisi -

Liked early reaction to skitts being towny, liked voting drew over Fark. Generally have similar reads to the list in 208

When we discussed our read of Datisi, I realized my gut is mostly TRing you for having similar thoughts. I think that's weakly town indicative on its own, but i couldn't really put my full townread into words beyond "Yeah I agree" so we just left you in null.

~Evening

[Melody]

Null isn't ordered btw.

~Dawn

[Melody]

I think people are probably intimidated by the avatar, Don. Can't be helped I guess.

~Dawn

[Melody]

No, I think he's talking about us voting him in the first place because of the "pending further evaluation" thing (other than the second half of the last line).

~Dawn

[Melody]

This isn't a bad list... can you expand on why skitter and datisi are still null? I can guess it's not the same level of null as clemency because those slots are full of content, so i'd like to hear on why you don't lean one way or the other.I reread your reasons for Cat Fever scum. I can see them, but i don't think scum would headbutt into that. I have been scumread for early readlists like... forever, and unless Cat Fever is very experienced around me (and he isn't, to my knowledge), that scumread was just genuine.I don't know what to make of melody and alduskkel, i think i want to lynch one of them today and i can compromise on either.

-Farkran

I mean, they're null because we haven't really felt anything alignment-indicative from them, it's hard to expand more that that.

Why are we still one of your top 2 picks to lynch if you liked the list?

~Dawn

[Melody]

Well, I'm familiar with you but not exactly familiar with how people "react to you" necessarily. Like, I don't really have much memory of people pushing you for early readlists from other games. It's probably happened, you're right, but just not something I've retained from those games. And yeah, we are kinda lost this game in terms of scumreads. There's a reason those 3 are "null-scum", I can totally see Jacko actually being completely clueless rather than playing dumb, or Aldu actually just feeling our vote against him was "unfair" because it was specifically against him, and people have a tend to OMGUS or value votes against their own person with higher importance than other people. It's the only things we got though, so

shrug

.

~Dawn

[Melody]

At the top of page 19, I like Peppur. Will catch up on rest later.

skitter, Evening will probably answer your question (I'm not town leaning you).

~Dawn

Why?

Am I being pocketed

Meta lol. Paranoia of pocketing and with a hint of OMGUS is what I've seen from town!you.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Also are you Shiki/Hectic?

Sorry, not gonna answer any alt-guesses. Unless you're RCEnigma because that guy is a legend (you'd have to alt out in the process though).

~Dawn

[Melody]

Recently discovered footage showing deadline creeping up on Cat Scratch Fever:


~Dawn

[Melody]

Melody, is there a particular reason why one head of the hydra is more active than the other?

sorry I'm not as active as i should be. This is my first time being in a hydra and i have been distracted with other things going on recently.

i want to make more substantial posts after actually reading thru carefully in order to not accidentally do what i did voting cat again. i did get a better grasp of the game doing the readslist with dawn though

I noticed Datisi said something similar, thats why i said "I like how Datisi grudgingly townleans skitts". I townread you, but you're closer to the bottom of the list because i feel like i'd townread you as scum as well. I also liked that Datisi thought abt it the same way as me

Sorry, i'm a little confused
Why is it townie of dats to read me that way? I can pretty easily imagine scum doing just that

@dawn can you make sure evening answers this plz?

I listed that as a point for Dats being vaguely town since it was the same way i perceived you early on. that coupled with having similar reads to datisi gave me a gut towny feeling, but ultimately not one that i can rely on too heavily since i cant really say scum!datisi wouldnt have those reads.

~Evening

[Melody]

I thought alimdias entrance attacking skitts was kind of meh, but upon rereading his theorizing on scum picking the number 1 slot in order to fuck up town, i felt like that was a pretty genuine argument from him. I dont really agree, but it's a unique idea at least and i think it's more likely to come from town

Spoiler: this post in particular

*why should i have started the game voting for one of the other 2's here, more accurately

I'll share my perspective.
If I think theres a high chance of scum in [2], and I'm town, and theres 2 other people that picked [2]. I should vote one of them.

I happen to think its highly plausible that theres a scum in [1], and likely a scum in [2], unless someone shows me that doesn't really happen in the previous iterations of this game

for probably the sixth time now, it did not happen in the last two iterations of the game; the lowest number any scum picked was 4; precisely because they were scared of colliding with town

i think scum are less worried about town getting high rolls than they're worried about no scum getting a high roll

If that's what happened in the past iterations, then I rest my case.

But its still possible that for the [1] pick, 1 scum decided to sacrifice themselves getting a PR, but fuck over 3 other town in the process. Like 1 for 3 seems pretty worth right?

It feels like something he has actually thinking about an believing prior to the game starting. which explains the skitts thing.

On the flip side though, as to what Don's said, it could be perceived that he's trying too hard to make it make sense. that's fair given i dont really follow his logic either, but im currently inclined to think he does believe it and he's town for it

pedit: I preemptively answered your question!!

~Evening

[Melody]

How come?

~Dawn

[Melody]

The strangest part about this is that your vote on me was ineffective as pressure because it was removed before I even posted again. The whole point of pressuring someone is to see how they react.You also voted me before I responded to your question, when you specifically said I was "pending further evaluation."Are you deliberately leaving out these important details?

We explained that with the hydra dissonance thing, did you not see Evening's post? Do you still think that's a valid reason, given our explanation?
And the pending further evaluation thing means you're an unsure; I feel like you're putting too much weight on the vote for reasons I don't really get, plus the context makes sense as well since our current vote was on Drew who we started liking.

~Dawn

[Melody]

I still think Melody is trying to pocket

I don't see how picking a random number is AI even with a discussion with mafia buddies. Is there like a specific way to abuse the Draft in a sense?

I don't see how picking a random number is AI even with a discussion with mafia buddies. Is there like a specific way to abuse the Draft in a sense?

Mafia won't pick random numbers. They're going to go for unique numbers that preferably don't overlap (obv because otherwise they'd place low by picking the same number), and they'll probably have some discussion as to what numbers are least commonly picked and low... etc

~Dawn

Oh gotcha

@alimdia re 338, wasn't the "need to find another vote" saying they want to vote someone besides Drew?

@jackson, do you still think Melody is pocketing you even after they explained their thought process?

VOTE: clemency

Yeah I do

This is still scummy. Why, Jacko?

~Dawn

[Melody]

I very much doubt Drew is scum here. I went digging DEEP down the Drew-meta hole again and this so much like his town game and nothing like his scum game. Check out his last scum game ISO here.

~Dawn

[Melody]

why did you claim neighborizer

VOTE: melody

BAD skitter

~Dawn

[Melody]

There's no way scum ever pick Neighboruiser as 3rd pick.

~Dawn

[Melody]

ftr melody and drew have some svs vibes

Why?

~Dawn

[Melody]

he's relying on you to defend himself and you're defending him

That read seems quite shallow to me? How do you get the feeling he's relying on us specifically from his posts?

~Dawn

[Melody]

Fark, town will pick neighbouriser as 3rd pick for fun reasons a lot of time, and because they just want to "guarantee" a PR and don't want to risk trying to pick the others. They'll be more inclined to value their own personal enjoyment, so it makes perfect sense as town. As scum, you have an obligation to your mates and you're more inclined to think about the bigger picture, so they'll almost never be picking it over the other good PRs. Drew is almost always town here.

Basically, not everyone has your competitive mindset as town :p

~Dawn

[Melody]

Spoiler: reads

Town Lean //
Doctor Drew
Iconeum
Dunnstral
DonCorleone
Alimdia

Town Incline //
Farkset
DoctorPepper (Dawn Meta)

Null, don’t lynch //
Skitts
Datisi
Cat Scratch

Null //
Brassherald
JacksonVirgo

Yikes //
Alduskkel

Spoiler: towny ppl

Iconeum has a really towny seeming ISO to me. I like the skitts push and not being sure why Dats/skitts get townreads. When he started, he mentioned a post by skitts he likes. Despite this, his first push is on skitts. It could be said that he’s fabricating paranoia on skitts to have something to push other than the main wagons, but I think this is less likely. 609 and 729 seem to suggest he’s actually trying to read her.

I like how he puts Cat as his main townread

It’s interesting to me that Ico has gotten town vibes from Aldus and is now concerned with his voters. He refers to this conflicting with his earlier reads, although I’m not really sure which one. Skitts thinks Aldus is town, and he’s pushing skitts I guess? It’s not really a conflict but he seems to think it is one, which is vaguely town-sounding that he goes with his heart on this.

-

Dunnstral -- Previous points with the whole trying to get 1-shot vig to claim thing. Does a lot of draft number theorizing, randomly thinks 11 and 19 are scummy numbers. Glad he leaves Don’s claim alone, brass vote is decent.

Aldus also finds (found?) Dunn scummy which gives me some indirect reason to like Dunny

He says the Alimdia wagon composition {DoctorPepper, DonCorleone} is sus. I agree on the grounds that Alimdia isn’t a good lynch choice, although I do not find Don/Pepper suspicious at the moment

-

DonCorleone I highly doubt would gambit the cop claim as a low seed as scum.

I generally like his contributions. I see he pushed alimdia, but my initial impressions on alimdia were scum until I reevaluated that. I can forgive an alimdia pushes at the time Don made it

-

Alimdia, I think the early push on skitts in hindsight was town-motivated. I am starting to feel pretty strongly that his logic is something that he believes in. Check his first post. I don’t really see why it implicates skitts as scum. But it reads to me that he does think it implicates skitts as scum.

He goes on to further explain his thought process in 294. So he wasn’t BSing it either.

763 he asks if anyone thinks Jackson is scummy. Indirectly makes me feel good about Alimdia

765 again sounds towny to me. I think he might not have included the last line as scum.

Spoiler: Aldus

I don’t like the opening push on Dunn. It’s very easy for scum to attack what Dunn did, although it doesn’t necessarily mean Aldus is scum, i didnt like that. Yeah he does say its a legitimate call-out, and it is, but I take issue with the part where Aldus concludes Dunn is scum from it

Don’t get his obsession with my vote on Cat mishap. I’m not convinced his push on us is genuine yet. He makes a large deal out of how we dissolved all pressure on Drew/Aldus when we swapped votes. But is there really that much pressure to begin with? I think when I joined the mini flash wagon on Cat, that at least sort of had pressure. I don’t see how he perceives that swap as scum-motivated. I could’ve not elected to join the growing Cat wagon, and that’d be town-indicative? Why?

710 he says he doesn’t buy “hydra dissonance”. We seem coordinated now, so why weren’t we coordinated then. Cause i haven’t hydra’d before and I didn’t have a good grasp on the game at the time. He then goes on to explain how I voted Cat essentially over not too much. On like, page 10. I saw something of Cat that i didn’t like a bit, I saw people i liked voting Cat, I joined. Why am I scum for joining a wagon that I think weakly was on scum and felt weakly was made of town?

Also, check the bottom paragraph of 710. It’s his reasoning for our singular vote on him being some kind of pressure that needs to be maintained:

Aldus: “So if the growing wagon = your wagon, then you're suggesting the alternative was Melody parking their vote on me "by themselves" (actually Farkset was voting me as well). But how do they know whether or not the pressure is meaningful if they didn't even wait for me to post?”

We didn’t keep our vote on long enough to know if the pressure is meaningful or not. What? Now it just sounds like he’s making stuff up. Does he actually believe this reasoning?

This is my read-thru trying to find the towniest individuals for the most part. Dawn and I are in agreement. Although I'm not personally familiar with the town!Pepper meta read

~Evening

[Melody]

Ehhh

The claim is still bad in my opinion

I don't think skitter and melody would either TMI drew town or hardwk their partner here

I still want to lynch drew but if i had him mod-confirmed town in this instant, i would switch to iconeum

-F

I am inclined to believe you're town Fark, but i disagree with basically everything u just said there. I can kinda see why you suspect Drew's claim, but i am coming to the opposite conclusion about him with regards to it. I think it is very much unlikely that scum picks neighbourizer.

what happened to the townlean on me?

Skitts I feel like you're towny, but i cannot really place a lot of certainty on it because I feel like I'd townread you even if you're scum. so I focused more on people I think i might stand a better chance of reading correctly when i was making my list.

I agree with your recent evaluation of Drew's claim though. I am glad you came around to seeing him as town, although you came to that conclusion after Drew became mechanically really high likelihood town, so I suppose that's not a huge surprise.

~Evening

[Melody]

Pretty sure a consensus is gathering on Aldu.

@alim: Why Brass?

~Dawn

[Melody]

Pedit: also disagree, i don't know or care that drew likes having a PT so much as to pick a useless role instead of attempting to have an active part of town winning. As scum, a neighborizer/FV is a good pick if you are 3rd in line, so your obligation to your partner is fulfilled.

I want to talk more about this, Fark. Not to defend Drew but to get into your thoughts/reasoning. Why do you "not care" that Drew likes having a PT so much? It explains why he'd pick neighbouriser over going for a stronger option, so why disregard that?

And why is neighbouriser a good 3rd pick over jailkeeper/redirector/roleblocker/vig...etc? Explain why the pocketing value of one is higher than the mechanical benefits that come with the other PRs I just mentioned.

~Dawn

[Melody]

*good 3rd pick for scum over

~Dawn

[Melody]

Fark, I read through a Jacko scum game and he's perfectly capable of pushing out reads from the offset. He had a similar pocketing read too.

Looking through his entrance this game again, his first 5 posts are all pushing the angle he's completely clueless and has no idea what he's doing, I'm not sure if it's disingenuous but the amount he pushes it makes it a little scummy. His conversation with me where he doesn't understand how his entrance if genuine is not NAI does feel like he's playing dumb though.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Hmm, I still disagree. Your 1) doesn't address my point that you're not factoring in the bias others may have, and you're looking at it from your own subjective viewpoint. Drew enjoys being in hoods, he has prioritised fun over giving town their best chance of winning. Why disregard that and look at it solely from a competitive viewpoint, despite evidence suggesting that you really shouldn't?

Going for neighboruiser as 3rd pick as scum because of fear that jk/rb/redirector/1-shot vig/vengeful

might

be taken is also weak reasoning, you get your pick like 80% of the time, especially if you factor in that jk/cop will be more popular for no1/2 slots, so going for the other 3 is safer. Also, why is rb a scummy pick? Scum doesn't pick rb and claim rb; they claim doc instead.

~Dawn

[Melody]

i have soft mech info against their pick (803)

What do you mean by this btw? Are you saying scum would fakeclaim neighbouriser and so knowing you didn't pick and get it is a positive for Drew?

~Dawn

[Melody]

Wait, you said "against". So you're saying you can't verify the fact his claim his true because you didn't specifically pick neighbouriser and fail to get it. That implies scum!Drew would be stupid enough to fakeclaim neighbouriser for whatever reason when he has no way of knowing whether a townie picked it up. I don't get it.

~Dawn

[Melody]

That sentiment was based on the fact that i didn't believe town would have picked neighborizer as 3rd, so i expected that he lied to avoid claiming something dangerous.

Why would scum!him ever lie there? Either:

-The real neighbouriser below him counterclaims. He probably gets lynched.
-If he gets lucky and there's no neighbouriser in the setup, no one will get neighbourised in the nights, so he gets found out and is lynched.

~Dawn

[Melody]

The "mech discussion" was because I'm trying to figure out if Fark's reasoning is genuine. Why do you scumread us, skitter? I really don't get it.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Datisi, didn't you think think we were town earlier?

~Dawn

[Melody]

Because I'm kinda lynchalicious? Not only in this game but in a lot of my recent town games (Micros 900, 930, and 935) I've been suspected a lot, although it didn't always result in me getting lynched

Since Melody is a secret hydra they could easily be aware of this.

I can see Melody + brass but why do you throw in Jackson/Iconeum in there? Do they have associations with Melody?

You think scum!us are specifically targeting you? There's far easier pushes this game that draw less attention on the less vocal slots.

~Dawn

[Melody]

i disagree with many of your takes and they feel kinda manufactured to me

@ melody was this going to go anywhere?

I didn't have time to debate them back then. Let's hear why you think that, skitts.

~Dawn

[Melody]

I'm not sure if I dig that case alim made tbh. The Dunny case especially is describing a lot of his posts but not actually explaining why they're scummy. Are you expecting us to conclude why those things you've listed are scummy, alim? Because I'm not seeing it.

The Jacko stuff I agree with except for part of the conclusion is flawed; I also scumleaned Jacko so he's not moving from someone who doesn't dislike him to someone who does.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Could you address this please, Aldu? I feel like I could be wrong about you but I really don't like this:

This is the only time Melody mentions scumreading you prior to and including the post where they vote you:

Dislike Cat's reaction to Fark's readslist. Obviously she's right on the point that the top 3 have no reason to be town, but the added on "Why did you feel the need to make a readslist?" feels like overkill. What are you hoping to accomplish asking that question? I see Cat's follow-up is that the readslist could be "scum trying to look busy". i disagree on the basis of suspecting people for early readslists >:x

~Evening

This isn't really a convincing case. Melody also didn't really try to get other people to vote you or further investigate your alignment by engaging with you -- it looks more like they just parked their vote on you.

You're implying we need to be scumreading someone in order to vote them. We'd stated many times surrounding that post that we had no scumreads and only had small scum impressions - one of those being Cats. That quoted post is not a "case" as you call it, so of course it's not convincing, it was just our thoughts on Cats at the time. What's your gripe?

~Dawn

[Melody]

We'd stated many times surrounding that post that we had no scumreads and only had small scum impressions - one of those being Cats. That quoted post is not a "case" as you call it, so of course it's not convincing, it was just our thoughts on Cats at the time. What's your gripe?

I was responding to CSF saying this:

I remember melody scumreading me at that point in the game.

CSF said you were scumreading her so that's why I brought up your post.

That's kinda dodging the question, isn't' it? I'm not talking about the context, I'm talking about how you're clearly making it out that we were scummy for what you said there.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Could you address this please, Aldu? I feel like I could be wrong about you but I really don't like this:

This is the only time Melody mentions scumreading you prior to and including the post where they vote you:

Dislike Cat's reaction to Fark's readslist. Obviously she's right on the point that the top 3 have no reason to be town, but the added on "Why did you feel the need to make a readslist?" feels like overkill. What are you hoping to accomplish asking that question? I see Cat's follow-up is that the readslist could be "scum trying to look busy". i disagree on the basis of suspecting people for early readslists >:x

~Evening

This isn't really a convincing case. Melody also didn't really try to get other people to vote you or further investigate your alignment by engaging with you -- it looks more like they just parked their vote on you.

You're implying we need to be scumreading someone in order to vote them. We'd stated many times surrounding that post that we had no scumreads and only had small scum impressions - one of those being Cats. That quoted post is not a "case" as you call it, so of course it's not convincing, it was just our thoughts on Cats at the time. What's your gripe?

~Dawn

Reposting for ease of access.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Drew and Datisi, you've both townleaned/read us at several points, please don't be silly and blindly sheep skitter.

I'll be around before deadline if we need to switch votes for a lynch.

~Dawn

[Melody]

a non PR scum wouldn't claim PR i dont think, so it's not vitally important to me that Alim claims which PR he has right now. he's either town PR or scum PR and there's no point in forcing the claim

Alimdia i also feel some townpings from still reading his posts

Aldus I'm pretty sure all I see while reading him is "Vote Melody, Melody voting off of me before I responded is bad, etc etc". I don't really get why he scumreads us so hard for that. At least others on our wagon say they feel scumpings from something else we've said and have something else to add. he's more of a broken record

Don makes some good points in 968, im just not into alimdia in particular. The flashwagon onto another unsortable player is a good idea but I dont think it's alimdia we're looking for

Not really into the Dunny case by alimdia, same as Dawn. Disagree with Fark liking it..

My "gripe" is that it didn't really justify your vote on CSF. I wouldn't have a problem if in that same post you had voted CSF, but voting CSF after a wagon started to form and before you got any response from your vote on me is scummy.

????

I joined it

because

people were voting Cat. That was the point, for pressure. I messed up and didn't realize we were already voting you for a similar purpose. I had vaguely scummy pings from something she said earlier, some townleans voted her, and i joined it. I fail to see what you're finding scummy here and its the only reasoning you've cited for lynching us that i've seen and you've basically just repeated it multiple times

I'm not sold on Aldus being scum just for this, but i dont townread him like i do Alimdia and he doesn't have a PR i assume so there's really no other place i'd go

~Evening

[Melody]

Wow, good job, town. We need to rerun this but with hoopla in this time.

~Dawn

[Melody]

Wow, good job, town. We need to rerun this but with hoopla in this time.

~Dawn

So you gonna reveal who this hydra is?

Datisi got me immediately which was kinda amazing. Sorely disappointed you didn't recruit me, Drew, even though I did die so it would've been pointless.

~Dawn

[Melody]

That went a lot better than i thought it would while playing d1

Good job towniesss. A lot of things kinda snowballed out of control for scum there for sure

~Evening