[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/ext/alfredoramos/seometadata/event/listener.php on line 114: Undefined array key 14101891 [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/ext/alfredoramos/seometadata/event/listener.php on line 114: Trying to access array offset on value of type null Open 905: Pick Your Power X/Y S/S [game over!] - Mafiascum.net
Post
Post #40 (isolation #0) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:39 am
Postby Oblivion »
Greetings,
It is excited to play in this setup, since it seems to have a lot of outguess and mechanical aspects that look interesting. That said, it has looked through past iterations of this setup and of another series of setups that appear to share a name with it, and it has found that there has been a lot of past discussions about whether Wolves will group up onto a number together, or select three different numbers.
Given our drafting results, it believes there is a high likelyhood that scum did not group together, though it doesn't want to rule anything fully out of hand. It also thinks that among players who bid Non Single Digit Numbers (perhaps excluding 10) there is likely to be a scum. It seems like a good scum strategy to bid a number that is not single digits to prey upon the mentality of players who think "Submit a number, lowest wins" and aim to outguess others in the 1-9 range.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #41 (isolation #1) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:43 am
Postby Oblivion »
In post 17, davesaz wrote:
I think reading too much into the draft would be a mistake. You have to go pretty deep into my history, given it's been ages since I played this (modded it a lot), but it will be clear I've always had this position.
It is of the opinion that this is a very defensive post that doesn't seem to have a prediction for how on guard it is. Yes, can you explain to it why you felt the need to bring up and defend yourself from an attack that hasn't even been levied?
Further, it thinks that the major element of this game is draft speculation and reading into player mentality for the choices that are made. Why shut that down?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #44 (isolation #2) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:45 am
Postby Oblivion »
In post 42, Jake The Wolfie wrote:
Fun fact: I initially submitted omega as my number, but the haters (the mods) couldn't see a bad bitch (me) winning (being slightly too absurd)
It had considered, during its examination of prior games, calculating how often each single digit number is chosen and choosing that one.
Instead it opted that it should go for 1, since there was a chance others would be too shy to try and take it.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #46 (isolation #3) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:46 am
Postby Oblivion »
In post 43, June wrote:
the draft has answers if we are willing to hear its whispers
It knows that this was likely said in jest but it is now interested in what your opinion on the draft outcome is, if you do infact have one?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
It has interesting thoughts about that number. It felt it was strange to submit a number that would be guaranteed to be unique but had no chance of being lowest, as if the intended effect was to land squarely in the middle. It wonders why anyone would want that?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 32, Firebringer wrote:
ohh i just realized this probably means u got the vig shot penguin. can't wait to see who u nuke. Got to bring back officer penguin with the nuke ride once u do it
Sorry to disappoint. I chose VT.
i am very upset with u if that is really what u did
It is assuming this is in jest, since it doesn't think that VT is a valid draft submission, even if you do end up receiving VT if you are outdrafted? Or are you truly able to say "I do not wish to claim a role"? That would be an interesting thing to do.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
It has interesting thoughts about that number. It felt it was strange to submit a number that would be guaranteed to be unique but had no chance of being lowest, as if the intended effect was to land squarely in the middle. It wonders why anyone would want that?
do u actually think ur going to get someones alignment from what numbers they picked. Or from all the history of this setup u looked at has anyone found scum from the draft numbers.
I personally don't care that much its a quasi funny intro to talk about the game but other than that its background noise to me.
It thinks it is a waste to leave information on the table when that information can assist us. That said, it doesn't think that the information itself is a useful tool for deciding our direction.
It is of the opinion that using that information as a Blade to delve into how others respond and play around it, like a sword dance, is valuable.
You don't watch the sword, you watch the footwork the sword forces to see the true intent of your opposition.
(It knows that is probably a corny metaphor but it quite likes it.)
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
It is interested in the why behind this statement, if you could indulge it?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
It is interested in the why behind this statement, if you could indulge it?
I wanted to move my vote off of you because I liked your opening.
It, uh, understood that much from context. Perhaps it should have been more clear, can you explain what it was about its opening that you liked?
For the sake of full transparency, it is attempting to build a mental model of you as a player to be able to determine if and when you become different and interrogate those moments. It plans to try and do this for all those in this game it can, but it has a particular interest in why people decide to see it as town, because it has a fear of the feelings of InGroup and Belonging that can come with that declaration.
As a fact, just hearing that you viewed me positively, it could feel its own desire to work with you sliding up, so it is using this as an attempt to counterbalance against that, if that is okay?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 80, Firebringer wrote:
if i was pretending to solve the game, I would go with June as one scum.
But I am not pretending to solve right now.
I am too busy chilling in the PT with penguinpower, talking about anime
ur smokin crack June is town
This level of confidence is interesting to me. For what reasons do you find June so overwhelmingly town that you would respond to another's suspicion in this way? Why not allow the suspicion to play out for more information, then assert your read and reasoning?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #90 (isolation #10) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:12 am
Postby Oblivion »
In post 74, davesaz wrote:
I can see a headache coming in this game from trying to read words that don't fit my language map.
It has two concerns with this post, both stemming from an assumption this is directed at it and it's post talking about you.
Firstly, it wants to allow for others to understand it and how it speaks. If it is not being understood, that is concerning for it. It can try its best to help you, but it speaks as it is because it is who it is.
Secondly, it wonders, perhaps from a place of deeper paranoia, if this isn't intended to discredit what we've said or choose not to engage with our concerns with you. It feels like you could likely erase those concerns by answering our questions we directed towards you, but for the moment we are a little... put off by this.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 144, Dunnstral wrote:
Can you show an example of two mafia picking the same draft number in a previous version of this setup?
The point is that they could, not that they will. Whether they have or not is immaterial, gambler's fallacy.
This is a game of "could"s, though. Determining what is more likely and staking your moves on that, then adapting with new information is the entire methodology of the game.
Simply stating that because somehting "could" happen that we shouldn't act upon the idea that it is unlikely and attempt to solve with a mentality in mind feels reductive and dismissive, to it.
It thinks there is a good line of reasoning and ability to choose where to look first in the logic it has presented. It even stated that it wasn't willing to say it was a certainty, and yet here we are discussing in a circle about "if something IS possible then we should consider both worlds" instead of hedging and using logic to try and eliminate worlds until proven otherwise.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 144, Dunnstral wrote:
Can you show an example of two mafia picking the same draft number in a previous version of this setup?
The point is that they could, not that they will. Whether they have or not is immaterial, gambler's fallacy.
This is a game of "could"s, though. Determining what is more likely and staking your moves on that, then
adapting with new information
is the entire methodology of the game.
Simply stating that because somehting "could" happen that we shouldn't act upon the idea that it is unlikely and attempt to solve with a mentality in mind feels reductive and dismissive, to it.
It thinks there is a good line of reasoning and ability to choose where to look first in the logic it has presented. It even stated that it wasn't willing to say it was a certainty, and yet here we are discussing in a circle about "if something IS possible then we should consider both worlds" instead of hedging and using logic to try and
eliminate worlds until proven otherwise.
Eliminating people from consideration as possible scum without evidence from their posting and votes (and before mechanical results but that comes later) is one of the worst things town can do.
Not sure why it's focusing on 17 when it didn't even say anything until 40, care to explain that aspect of the points it's making?
Okay, now can it ask people if this is a remotely fair interpretation of its points? It doesn't feel that it is. It isn't saying to remove people from consideration forever, it literally said that you adapt as more information becomes known.
For your benefit, it has bolded in its own post the two different times it has said this that you seemed to ignore. Creating a world view, interrogating that world view, and then making a choice on how you want to act upon that world view, and then seeing whether you were right or wrong is quite literally the basis of scumhunting, let alone scientific methodology.
It is focusing on all of your posts, but most especially the ones in which you come off as a curmudgeon attempting to shut down lines of reasoning before they evolve. It believes you are possibly trying to dictate and control what ideas are accepted within the town and silence others that may not work for you. By further interrogating you, it can decide whether your actions are a part of the mental model it thinks is acceptable for your townplay or whether these actions are guided by a further motivation that doesn't register as town.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 17, davesaz wrote:
I think reading too much into the draft would be a mistake. You have to go pretty deep into my history, given it's been ages since I played this (modded it a lot), but it will be clear I've always had this position.
It is of the opinion that this is a very defensive post that doesn't seem to have a prediction for how on guard it is. Yes, can you explain to it why you felt the need to bring up and defend yourself from an attack that hasn't even been levied?
Further, it thinks that the major element of this game is draft speculation and reading into player mentality for the choices that are made. Why shut that down?
Bc empirically towns lose games where they eschew organic gameplay for mechanical decision tree math whether or not on paper they should
Empirically requires evidence you don't have. Furthermore, no one is attempting to eschew "organic" (it has words for the manner in which you have phrased this for your own benefit/bias) gameplay and replace it solely with a decision tree.
If you read any of its posts, it has said multiple times that it is seeking to use the information gleaned in the draft as a weapon to force others to respond and see how their play evolves as a result, while retaining a framework that, yes infact, scum are somewhat readable through the Psychology of Drafting.
Now, as for its concern with your bias. It would thank you not to decide what is and is not "organic" gameplay. Our approach to other players has been wholy in attempt to generate organic reactions and create mental models for our ability to solve them for later. Simply because it does not play how you play does not mean its methods are less effective than yours.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
It's a term of endearment and doesn't mean onion ring
It assumes this is a reference to the Magic: The Gathering Card "Oblivion Ring"?
It is fine with that, it sees no reason or harm in that nickname.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 144, Dunnstral wrote:
Can you show an example of two mafia picking the same draft number in a previous version of this setup?
The point is that they could, not that they will. Whether they have or not is immaterial, gambler's fallacy.
Town indicative cause an example appeases better
It doesn't agree with this, for what it is worth. It thinks that this is a pretty basic way to level yourself against a request. Combing through records of games and providing examples of when this gambit has taken place is a value neutral action that won't indicate Dave's alignment in any real way. Actively refusing to do it while sticking to one's guns, however, is a move a player can play to attempt to look dogmatic, and its experience, limited as it is, is that dogmatic players who appear to "truly believe in their own craft" are read as innocent more frequently than not.
In other words, there's no real motivation for town or scum dave to do anything but what he did there, it thinks. It's a neutral outcome.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #199 (isolation #16) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:25 pm
Postby Oblivion »
In post 197, May wrote:
I've never like made a spreadsheet I just played mafia for 16 years and have anecdata
Organic isn't the right word but I couldn't figure out the right word. "The other stuff" is what I meant
Yes O-Ring is a 3 mana enchantment
Your experiences do not qualify as evidence that a methodology is bad, only that it doesn't suit your style. Just as its experiences do not qualify as evidence that Dave's curmudgeoning is explicitly scum, despite it being a familiar feeling to it. It understands that there are cultural differences and playstyle gaps. It has already assuaged two different concerns that it would base itself solely on mechanics, when infact it is clearly doing more than that. But information is information, and if it can use draft info to help corner scum, it's going to do that.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 197, May wrote:
I've never like made a spreadsheet I just played mafia for 16 years and have anecdata
Organic isn't the right word but I couldn't figure out the right word. "The other stuff" is what I meant
Yes O-Ring is a 3 mana enchantment
Your experiences do not qualify as evidence that a methodology is bad, only that it doesn't suit your style. Just as its experiences do not qualify as evidence that Dave's curmudgeoning is explicitly scum, despite it being a familiar feeling to it. It understands that there are cultural differences and playstyle gaps. It has already assuaged two different concerns that it would base itself solely on mechanics, when infact it is clearly doing more than that. But information is information, and if it can use draft info to help corner scum, it's going to do that.
You don't have to brag about being obv town O-Ring c'mon
It... what? Apologies, it's attempting to find where it is bragging and is a little lost. Is this an attempt at humor that I'm missing? It's expecting it will be but it doesn't get it.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
It has interesting thoughts about that number. It felt it was strange to submit a number that would be guaranteed to be unique but had no chance of being lowest, as if the intended effect was to land squarely in the middle. It wonders why anyone would want that?
do u actually think ur going to get someones alignment from what numbers they picked. Or from all the history of this setup u looked at has anyone found scum from the draft numbers.
I personally don't care that much its a quasi funny intro to talk about the game but other than that its background noise to me.
It thinks it is a waste to leave information on the table when that information can assist us. That said, it doesn't think that the information itself is a useful tool for deciding our direction.
It is of the opinion that using that information as a Blade to delve into how others respond and play around it, like a sword dance, is valuable.
You don't watch the sword, you watch the footwork the sword forces to see the true intent of your opposition.
(It knows that is probably a corny metaphor but it quite likes it.)
This post kind of undermines any positive image for being the setup spec super jewelry of this particular run of the mech heavy setup so that's towny
It knows you are drunk and about to board a plane but could you take a moment to restate this so it can attempt to parse? It is truly lost on what this means.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
It has interesting thoughts about that number. It felt it was strange to submit a number that would be guaranteed to be unique but had no chance of being lowest, as if the intended effect was to land squarely in the middle. It wonders why anyone would want that?
I signed up to this game with the intention of submitting ω (the first transfinite ordinal number, omega) because I thought it would be funny. Alas, this proposal was denied. Instead, I submitted the first 15 digits of Tau, mainly because I didn't want to submit a meaningless large number
Sure, and if you're town it believes that is all that happened. It has to consider what you would do if you were scum and needed to work together with your team. It thinks that story works mostly to cover your number choice and deny a specific "reason" for picking from existing... but scum will have to work together with their picks, regardless.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #238 (isolation #20) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:18 pm
Postby Oblivion »
Can it say that while it intellectually understands that all this masonry talk is kind of town block building from the foundation of what appears to be prior friendships for the sake of building something, emotionally this just feels like an in-group deciding who is and isn't town based on said friendships and gaining voting block control to dictate how things go, and it really doesn't know how to remotely interact with it. It feels massively uncomfortable, and it makes it sort of not want to interact with anyone who participates.
In short, it sucks that the depth of about four different players content in this game is wholy this thing, and that this thing is more or less just an exclusion method. It hates it, quite a bit.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #242 (isolation #21) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:25 pm
Postby Oblivion »
So how is it meant to take it? If it takes it at face value, then it's an in-group building based upon how you connect with seemingly little other than past experiences, for the sake of town blocking.
If it's meant as a joke, then it's worse because it's accomplishing the same thing, except none of the content from said coalition is even usable because the argument will be "well don't take it too seriously" anytime someone tries to interrogate the behaviour on display. It's like Schrodinger's Cat, it's serious, unless it's not, and it's only not serious when you need to say it isn't?
It just feels frustrating because it makes it impossible to generate models on any of you because if the idea is "we're going to troll, but actually we're also building this too, but we're only joking" what is it meant to think?
Do you have any reads beyond town on the people you're doing this with?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #245 (isolation #22) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:28 pm
Postby Oblivion »
like when it examines Firebringer's posts, there is possibly one in the entire thing that it can say doesn't relate to this topic and doesn't come across as just trying to be funny, and it's the one time they say "if i was trying to solve this game, this is who I think would be scum" and names June.
But that in itself is an issue because it means am I meant to take the rest of their posting as like, non-content? So then what am I meant to engage with?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #247 (isolation #23) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:29 pm
Postby Oblivion »
In post 243, Firebringer wrote:
penguin point is that its not very serious, if you want to read into it for alignment go for it. But if you are trying to make it out like we are excluding people from the cool club, thats not whats happening.
It isn't trying to make anything out as anything, it's telling you it's the effect of what you are doing upon it. It doesn't know how remotely to engage with any of you. To even begin in reading any of you.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 245, Oblivion wrote:
like when it examines Firebringer's posts, there is possibly one in the entire thing that it can say doesn't relate to this topic and doesn't come across as just trying to be funny, and it's the one time they say "if i was trying to solve this game, this is who I think would be scum" and names June.
But that in itself is an issue because it means am I meant to take the rest of their posting as like, non-content? So then what am I meant to engage with?
i haven't really been trying to sort anyone yet tbh.
June i think is scummy but I think all the cat talk is just what irks me. I am not a fan of cats myself.
... because, Dog?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #254 (isolation #25) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:33 pm
Postby Oblivion »
Regardless, if this is simply in jest and your goal is to become readable, it encourages you to please consider engaging with the game in other ways. Even if that means you decide to run through everything it has written and disagree with all of it and make a point of it or something, it doesn't care. It just can't see any value in this, and it's making it harder to interact. It didn't say much at first because it thought it was a one time joke but it hasn't yet ended so...
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 251, Pavowski wrote:
Dunno why really but I'm catching town vibes off this complaint from Oblivion
or is it scum frustrated can't integrate into the "town block"
For clarity, it is using Town Block derogatively, because these things nearly always have some form of scum infiltrate them and then sit there unmolested being protected by those who don't change their mind. It has no desire to belong to any town block, it thinks they are detrimental to game health and solving ability. There are a few setups where it could see something of that nature being valuable? A setup where finding townies is more valuable than finding scum, off the top of its head but it doesn't know what a setup like that would begin to look like.
It is just in its experience these in-groups take control and then ignore everything else and then poof, there is no hope.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #267 (isolation #27) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:38 pm
Postby Oblivion »
It tries to be understanding of others playstyles and it gets wanting to have trusted elements to bounce ideas off of, but that doesn't mean it has to like or support when it sees one possibly forming? Especially when it can't evaluate what makes any members of it actually town, making it hard to make mental models of anything.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 251, Pavowski wrote:
Dunno why really but I'm catching town vibes off this complaint from Oblivion
or is it scum frustrated can't integrate into the "town block"
See that's how I would read it if lazy braining, but seems like scum would be a lot cagier (cageyer?) about it
Paint me the picture of how this cagier method looks
Can it interject with an argument for why your suggested viewpoint is facile or should it wait for this person to answer the question first?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 272, Pavowski wrote:
Like just trying to slide into the alleged town block rather than being like "hey quit making that town block over there"
is this how u would play it. Cause I don't think ive seen scum do this very much where they try to interject themselves into a townblock or by w/e ur suggesting.
Wait, what? You've never seen scum try to infiltrate a town block to have control and say over what the townblock votes and protection from being voted?
That... really?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #281 (isolation #30) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:47 pm
Postby Oblivion »
In post 277, Firebringer wrote:
the way i imagine people say infiltrate a townblock is like someone just showing up out of the blue uninvited and going "hello fellow town players" and everyone is cool with that. I think yall are saying something else when u say infiltrate.
It believes that infiltration of a townblock would look something more along the lines of beginning to force an interaction with one of the members, garner a townread, then use that existing structure to your benefit.
It does not think it looks like the skateboarding old man meme, entering the thread and being like "Oh, you're doing a masonry, can it join?"
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 277, Firebringer wrote:
the way i imagine people say infiltrate a townblock is like someone just showing up out of the blue uninvited and going "hello fellow town players" and everyone is cool with that. I think yall are saying something else when u say infiltrate.
It believes that infiltration of a townblock would look something more along the lines of beginning to force an interaction with one of the members, garner a townread, then use that existing structure to your benefit.
It does not think it looks like the skateboarding old man meme, entering the thread and being like "Oh, you're doing a masonry, can it join?"
They would like to inform It that while this may be a reasonable and almost natural movement that a scum member would take, this is batshit crazy to anyone who is like, aware of how players actually play the game.
I would be impressed by anyone who succesfully infiltrated a townbloc this way, because it is very difficult to intentionally appear town.
It...
It doesn't know what to say to that.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Never has but one day I think i will have enough clout and swagger that everyone will go along with me.
It's also funny to be right and totally correct but present the right opinion in a totally wrong way.
What, precisely, changed from this post to this post, Gob?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #301 (isolation #33) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:06 pm
Postby Oblivion »
In post 300, Jake The Wolfie wrote:
If you somehow had a reliable method to appear town in even over 50% of your games, you would probably have some mastery over some part of human psychology and should probably be doing better things besides / in addition to playing Mafia.
This really boils down to "Mafia would be fundamentally flawed if there were a general method to fool people into believing that you are town."
And what if Mafia is what it... normally, finds relaxing? What if Mafia is a place where it can be somewhat unethical and experiment with the human condition and just have fun?
It feels like there are people who are good enough to do this... and who do this for fun, it doesn't know if it is among them, it aspires to be? But it believes it to be possible.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 300, Jake The Wolfie wrote:
you would probably have some mastery over some part of human psychology and should probably be doing better things besides / in addition to playing Mafia.
i have plenty of other things i should be doing instead, this is accurate
Such items include: Barking at Cats, Setting precious treasures on fire, working closely with law enforcement?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 300, Jake The Wolfie wrote:
you would probably have some mastery over some part of human psychology and should probably be doing better things besides / in addition to playing Mafia.
i have plenty of other things i should be doing instead, this is accurate
Such items include: Barking at Cats, Setting precious treasures on fire, working closely with law enforcement?
i only do two of these things
You and Officer Jenny no longer have a working relationship? What happened?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 300, Jake The Wolfie wrote:
you would probably have some mastery over some part of human psychology and should probably be doing better things besides / in addition to playing Mafia.
i have plenty of other things i should be doing instead, this is accurate
Such items include: Barking at Cats, Setting precious treasures on fire, working closely with law enforcement?
i only do two of these things
You and Officer Jenny no longer have a working relationship? What happened?
she got a meowth. Unacceptable
A travesty, to be certain.
While it has your ear, is there legitimately any way it is going to be able to get straight answers out of you if it tries to pick your brain and get a Mental Model of you or will you just make jokes at its expense and then do a kickflip into a nose grind away? (Its current model of you indicates you will do the later, but it's hoping it is wrong).
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #311 (isolation #37) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:18 pm
Postby Oblivion »
In post 309, Firebringer wrote:
i like to think of myself as unpredictable, but i may answer ur questions pretty forthcoming, really will depend on my mood and how willing i am to unravel the mysteries of my mind. I like many people work better with pointed questions, so if u really want to get insight into what i am thinking u will probably ask decent enough questions from what ive seen u ask so far.
But I will give very lazy answers to lazy questions most of the time. So if u ask me general question. What is ur read of X. I will give u a very brief answer if one at all.
Okay, that's sufficient. Let it see if it can examine back through the game and decide what questions would inform it best about you? Give it.... 5 minutes, tops. It won't barrage you with questions either, it's thinking 2 or 3? To start, at least. Not "for the whole game". You get it, it thinks.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #312 (isolation #38) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:24 pm
Postby Oblivion »
In post 80, Firebringer wrote:
if i was pretending to solve the game, I would go with June as one scum.
But I am not pretending to solve right now.
I am too busy chilling in the PT with penguinpower, talking about anime
It takes you as a player who at least considers the impact of statements you make while you make them, and this statement still rings as the most engagable from you for me, so let me start here.
Rather than asking you "why do you think June is scum here?" I want to know the following two things
1) What from June's reactions to this post and posting after the fact when you supposedly discovered their alt made you flip your read on this player?
2) Given that you now do think June is town (is its understanding, correct it if not), what do you think of other players reactions to this post and interactions with June in hindsight? Is there any player in particular you think looks worse in a world where June is town?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 300, Jake The Wolfie wrote:
If you somehow had a reliable method to appear town in even over 50% of your games, you would probably have some mastery over some part of human psychology and should probably be doing better things besides / in addition to playing Mafia.
This really boils down to "Mafia would be fundamentally flawed if there were a general method to fool people into believing that you are town."
And what if Mafia is what it... normally, finds relaxing? What if Mafia is a place where it can be somewhat unethical and experiment with the human condition and just have fun?
It feels like there are people who are good enough to do this... and who do this for fun, it doesn't know if it is among them, it aspires to be? But it believes it to be possible.
I think there's also the note that if someone had demonstrated mastery over trickery, that person would recieve special scrutiny by anyone not wishing to be made a fool of again.
In any case, this is all mafia theory and would be better suited for a mafia discussion thread. As for the original point, people don't get indoctrinated into the townbloc because, like, they flashed The Doctor's psychic paper to unsuspecting victims. They get into the townbloc because they've both been generally townread by enough people and because they are actively helping the town win the game.
Sure, let's depart from theory and into the game.
You've done more relevant words to help it understand your Mental Model here regarding something that can't even begin to be considered alignment indicative than you have about the entire actual game so far. It gets from you that you have, in yourself, at least some confidence in your ability to read and play this game, and so my question is this: Where are your reads, why aren't you engaging with players to generate content, and why are you so comfortable sitting back and letting things play out without your thumb on the scale, so to speak?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 312, Oblivion wrote:
Rather than asking you "why do you think June is scum here?" I want to know the following two things
1) What from June's reactions to this post and posting after the fact when you supposedly discovered their alt made you flip your read on this player?
2) Given that you now do think June is town (is its understanding, correct it if not), what do you think of other players reactions to this post and interactions with June in hindsight? Is there any player in particular you think looks worse in a world where June is town?
1) I wouldn't say my read flipped on June. I would say I am more cautious. I think June main is one i am more likely to feel those posts made by June are less alignment indicative so I am waiting for her to do something I consider scummy. I do think her comment about being a powerful role is a lie though.
2) Well I don't think June is town.
Are u talking about all the posts in which people swept in immediately and called June town?
Wasn't that Dunnyboi and Gob?
Gob is like a contrarian to me.
Dunnyboi usually disagrees with me.
So I didn't take too much stock in it. If June is in fact town I would say gob overreaction could be white knighting if i really decided to squint harder, but I could see the reverse being just as true that June talk with cats and such was just subtle buddying of Gob or something.
It was, yes. Sorry if it was being vague, it didn't want to exactly spoonfeed you what it was thinking of, but make enough reference so that you would understand?
Then, between Gob and Dunn and June right now, if you were forced to shoot one of them, who would you kill? Follow up question, if that player flipped town, who among the whole playerbase would you shoot with that information? Actually, if they flip scum, who would you shoot too?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #326 (isolation #41) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:36 pm
Postby Oblivion »
In post 324, Firebringer wrote:
idk who i would kill regardless of what Gob flipped. I haven't really been thinking about any associations if gob was scum. I don't even really think gob is scum right now, we are assuming a lot of things at this point and bound to be wrong on a few assumptions.
If gob is town then idk what that means for June or Dunnyboi
If gob is scum it probably means at least June is town
It can tell you who it would shoot if Gob was town and if Gob was scum, but it worries it will cause another "USING THE NUMBERS" argument...
But it has what it thinks are some decent ideas? Would you be interested in engaging with those?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #327 (isolation #42) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:38 pm
Postby Oblivion »
In post 319, June wrote:
i actually dont think in general 'this' is how i would play as a wolf anymore it's not really fun to do nothing and then die for it
Do you have a player in this game you're most afraid of being unable to read correctly?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #330 (isolation #43) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:39 pm
Postby Oblivion »
Apologies if that is a weird question, it just had this sudden sense of you as a player who is very anxious and desperately does not want to be put in a situation where the whole game relies on your choices, so I was interested in who if anyone you are most worried about.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #332 (isolation #44) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:40 pm
Postby Oblivion »
In post 328, Firebringer wrote:
i am almost curious on what ur thinking but ive kind of sorted u in my town pile so im not that curious because now i don't really need to sort u.
I am not that interested in going down wild mass guessing in worlds of gob alignment right now. Kind of want to explore other players independently instead of associations. I don't use associations until i get some actual flips underneath to know if i am at least living in the correct world.
That is... a reasonable point, actually. It might do more harm than good making conversation about 3 layers deep on "if, then" scenarios.
It will keep these thoughts to itself, and perhaps bring them up later when they are more relevant?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 319, June wrote:
i actually dont think in general 'this' is how i would play as a wolf anymore it's not really fun to do nothing and then die for it
Do you have a player in this game you're most afraid of being unable to read correctly?
not really ask me at eod
In post 330, Oblivion wrote:
Apologies if that is a weird question, it just had this sudden sense of you as a player who is very anxious and desperately does not want to be put in a situation where the whole game relies on your choices, so I was interested in who if anyone you are most worried about.
Can you tell me if this assessment of you is accurate, though? If you can't answer the question currently, that is.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #336 (isolation #46) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:45 pm
Postby Oblivion »
In post 335, Firebringer wrote:
We can discuss associations more day 2 or something, sure.
Okay. It has one more question for you, then.
It is having a hard time engaging with people to try and solve them, and you seem to know pretty much everyone here. Which player do you think it would benefit the most from bouncing its questions and thoughts off of to develop a model for and possibly work together with if it can find them as town?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
It has interesting thoughts about that number. It felt it was strange to submit a number that would be guaranteed to be unique but had no chance of being lowest, as if the intended effect was to land squarely in the middle. It wonders why anyone would want that?
do u actually think ur going to get someones alignment from what numbers they picked. Or from all the history of this setup u looked at has anyone found scum from the draft numbers.
I personally don't care that much its a quasi funny intro to talk about the game but other than that its background noise to me.
It thinks it is a waste to leave information on the table when that information can assist us. That said, it doesn't think that the information itself is a useful tool for deciding our direction.
It is of the opinion that using that information as a Blade to delve into how others respond and play around it, like a sword dance, is valuable.
You don't watch the sword, you watch the footwork the sword forces to see the true intent of your opposition.
(It knows that is probably a corny metaphor but it quite likes it.)
This post kind of undermines any positive image for being the setup spec super jewelry of this particular run of the mech heavy setup so that's towny
It knows you are drunk and about to board a plane but could you take a moment to restate this so it can attempt to parse? It is truly lost on what this means.
The post isn't very lamisty
I'm about to deboard a plane and am not drunk it's miserable
What is... lamisty?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #342 (isolation #48) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:01 pm
Postby Oblivion »
In post 341, May wrote:
I was in the air so little how is there all the pages
It... may have spent the free time it has here attempting to get a foothold into the game and generate content for itself and others to better solve. It tries to be more verbose within its own posts to avoid making too much spam but... alas.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #344 (isolation #49) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:09 pm
Postby Oblivion »
It being town has nothing to do with it finding scum, though. It wants to try and get Mental Models of everyone, then solve.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #451 (isolation #50) » Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:03 pm
Postby Oblivion »
It genuinely appreciates you saying that, May.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 238, Oblivion wrote:
Can it say that while it intellectually understands that all this masonry talk is kind of town block building from the foundation of what appears to be prior friendships for the sake of building something, emotionally this just feels like an in-group deciding who is and isn't town based on said friendships and gaining voting block control to dictate how things go, and it really doesn't know how to remotely interact with it. It feels massively uncomfortable, and it makes it sort of not want to interact with anyone who participates.
In short, it sucks that the depth of about four different players content in this game is wholy this thing, and that this thing is more or less just an exclusion method. It hates it, quite a bit.
Do you wanna b besties
So its answer to this is probably yes, as a result.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Time to drunkensleep tomorrow my face hairs is zapped by the pain machine
It knows this feeling... intimately. If you catch it's drift? Like, in a more painful area, perhaps.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #532 (isolation #53) » Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:15 am
Postby Oblivion »
It Will be busy today but attempt to make some posts Tonight.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #724 (isolation #54) » Fri Mar 01, 2024 3:39 am
Postby Oblivion »
It had a very hard day yesterday, and it has now fallen ill. It is reading along as the game goes to ensure it remains caught up, so it will not fall behind. To assist it, can players provide it things that they want its take on or ask it questions by quoting this post so it can receive notifications to respond to when it has energy again?
It would be very grateful, friends.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
It lives, once more. Its head hurts, quite a bit, but it lives.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
Post
Post #1067 (isolation #56) » Sat Mar 02, 2024 2:00 pm
Postby Oblivion »
It is around to be able to interact now, though. It saw the things it was quoted with and will respond to them when in due time with effort, but it can do interactions with anyone who is around now?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
In post 724, Oblivion wrote:
It had a very hard day yesterday, and it has now fallen ill. It is reading along as the game goes to ensure it remains caught up, so it will not fall behind. To assist it, can players provide it things that they want its take on or ask it questions by quoting this post so it can receive notifications to respond to when it has energy again?
It would be very grateful, friends.
Any thoughts on the very spread out vote count, with many people voting players who are virtually certain to have a PR?
In post 144, Dunnstral wrote:
Can you show an example of two mafia picking the same draft number in a previous version of this setup?
The point is that they could, not that they will. Whether they have or not is immaterial, gambler's fallacy.
This is a game of "could"s, though. Determining what is more likely and staking your moves on that, then adapting with new information is the entire methodology of the game.
Simply stating that because somehting "could" happen that we shouldn't act upon the idea that it is unlikely and attempt to solve with a mentality in mind feels reductive and dismissive, to it.
It thinks there is a good line of reasoning and ability to choose where to look first in the logic it has presented. It even stated that it wasn't willing to say it was a certainty, and yet here we are discussing in a circle about "if something IS possible then we should consider both worlds" instead of hedging and using logic to try and eliminate worlds until proven otherwise.
Eliminating people from consideration as possible scum without evidence from their posting and votes (and before mechanical results but that comes later) is one of the worst things town can do.
Not sure why it's focusing on 17 when it didn't even say anything until 40, care to explain that aspect of the points it's making?
It felt that Brian's take on this interaction was what it saw too as it was reading along but was too sick to post? It won't go as far as to say "Brian had the exact same thought process as it" but, the fact he saw what it saw was a good sign for his alignment it thinks? Mental Model on him would be helpful to see if it's the kind of thing he can fake, but it feels like it makes him more likely town than not, especially if Dave is scum like it thinks.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
sorry, it was supposed to quote your post too with that post, so it is quoting you now to notify you.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.
And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free: