Open 904: DE Runs a Marathon Setup in the Open Queue [Completed]

[Political Clout]

explain why you are voting hellbooks, political clout

UNVOTE:

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reading now, I should be fast.

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jupiter what do you make of black's vote on you?

i assumed it was an rvs vote since i didnt see a reason for her to scumread me asides from my undying charm and my roguishly good looks

ok im gonna be serious mostly just assumed it was a pivot from her earlier vote on python onto me due to my vocaloid reference on the second page because im gonna be real i'd probably suspect myself too

but like eh its not gonna kill me plus she hasnt came out about a reason yet so im not gonna push it

I think jupiter is town on page 5. continuing on.

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i want to town read jupiter for that

Is anything stopping you?

fair question imo.

Note: the following rule has been added under game-specific rules, because it's needed for the setup to function properly and I missed it by pure oversight.

6. The mafia must kill every night, and if no kill is submitted I will randomize one.

Surely the scum team wasn't theorizing in their PT about submitting a "no kill" to break the set up...

this pinged me for some reason. It could be the time that elapsed? I mean it took about 7 pages of roden to say anything again, but that might be offset by the multiposter that is jupiter...also the post feels a bit void too I'm certain the setup info clarifies a must kill scenario during the np if and only if x happens.

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I'm getting the same nervous scum energy vibes that I got from a game that just ended. That sequence in particular felt like a fabricated thought about Dann. Jupiter had a ton of fabricated thoughts in his scum game

The first thing that pinged me about Jupiter was his "I wish :(" response to me asking him if he's scum. Pretty minor read here but I have a feeling this is an unnatural response, even considering Jupiter's explanation after. Jupiter seemed super stressed in his scum game that just ended and I don't believe that he actually would wish he was scum again if he's town here. I think that was a response he crafted to seem like he's town

can you link the game please and thank you.

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I'm town, and unaware of what?

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I'm town, and unaware of what?

You replaced Roden

i completely forgot about that lol let me catch up i'm on page 9 still writing a post.

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the Dubious Process behind my thought: i am working under this impression that tris generally prefers to play a safe and measured game in which she doesnt spiral too deeply into 1v1 interactions and that this might go doubly so if she were to play as scum (but which i have never seen her do before, so perhaps it might even be less so) and it sprung to mind (like an oasis of mild interest in a general desert of personal thoughtlessness) that it was interesting that she would choose to vote black based on what seemed like a fairly concrete reason in comparison to this stage of the game, because my impression of black is that she is a rather scrutinizing player who is unafraid to get into the weeds and react to attempts to push her, but while this could plausibly be corroborated by python's followup on their vote on black (they said they would expect her to react with "grr this is a shitpush" or "what makes you say that"), i thought it would still be presumptuous to say something like that outright given that i have never played with black before, and didnt want to make judgments on two different people that could potentially be sour, so instead i just asked tris whether she had played with black before to see if any further followup on this thought could be gleaned, but then after a vague attempt of finding this game i quickly lost interest and instead just decided to expand on this idea for the public in a safer way by saying, essentially, that if tris were scum i'd think she would prefer to expend her vote on someone who will not get too suspicious at her for it, will not get indignant at getting voted, and in fact loves getting voted, and

in fact its wings are too small to get it

s fat little body off the ground. the bee, of cours

e, flies anyway because bees don't care what humans th

ink is impossible. Yellow, black. Yello

w, black. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Ooh, blac

k and yellow! Let'

s shake it up

a little

i hardclaim mafia

this to me feels like a lot of scheming, but town sided imo...we get a look at what hellbooks has been thinking. they comment on what I think was a pointless exchange between python and black i.e. python voting for black to get a reaction and sus their alignment. I think it broke down when black voted jupiter. black did what python expected, but black didn't do it to python that could be explained by black thinking it was a joke. I digress. if anything this post seems to be a hard push at tris being town.

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For some reason it feels like Black doesn't believe our serious vote is serious, idk why

What makes you think that

If you were taking it serious we'd expect you to either go "grr this is a shitpush" or "what makes you say that" (woah deja vu) instead of the lighthearted banter

Black can be our first townread, she's got her thinking cap on in 25

VOTE: JV

fwiw (if u even care...) i think these are the two most notable posts of rvs and the part that makes the interaction feel weird to me

i think black's mindset in the interaction makes sense generally but is also like very rote and expected

35 is weird bc it feels kinda overexplained and i guess the like, thoughtful response vibe feels out of place with what is otherwise a joking rvs situation

36 is just a strange thing to townread black for and feels a little awkward to me

i think the thread response to the interaction was also somewhat interesting particularly jupiter and tris voting python and black respectively with a blam and a bwam respectively but also not really directly engaging with the content of it. although i think from my later discussion with tris she wasn't particularly interested in the posts that i found interesting and was more interested in black's vote on jupiter. interesting interest interesting

during this time fire voted dann then jupiter to see their response then went back to dannflor his rvs vote. that on it's face seems sus to me. overall I don't have much of an impression on fire so far I think that's bad for them. I think this is an egmeoy on python if i'm not mistaken. Could have been a great time for a serious vote and to push python, but hindsight is 20/20...

why didn't you vote for python here? and please do elaborate on the intersting part of tris voting for black I'm interested.

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because fireisredsir seemed to think i suspected her for reasons,

and was building a tower of reasoning on that i wanted to bring that crashing down so she could build anew from the rubble.

i originally wanted to join the python wagon, but black lept away from that. and i didnt feel like joining the new jupiter push, so i thought it would be fun to vote for black instead.

is this just a straight up lie? I don't recall reading anything of the sort...

can you point it out tris? thanks. I don't understand why your vote is contingent on what black did can you explain further? just seems a bit petty to vote for black because they didn't want to vote for python...

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VOTE: Python

Add Roden to the assassination pool for this

Please no, I'd literally rather die today than Day 2, I will throw

No we meant that the assassin add you as the mafia solve

do you think roden not knowing makes him towny or just someone who didn't read the setup info? also no clue what you mean by assassin. I am hard assuming here it is the mafia team that has to kill eachother if we get a red flip today or tomorrow.

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if that didnt goad you into scumreading me until i die ill just VOTE: roden for good measure

terrible vote just screams back away from me.

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VOTE: hellbooks

dann sees it I think

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black is probably town but this sucks because she will kill me dead

Why am I probably town though? You keep saying this but you can't explain it. It doesn't feel like a real read

I'm beginning to change my mind on jupiter.

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hmm, i think the way hellbooks rolled out her vote and reasonings for Roden might be town

HUH?

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I'm on page 26 terribly bored. i like the fire and python jumping on tris though that was fun to read. I like that when black comes on they are asking other people for their reads trying to get consolidation going.

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i'm on page 32 going to make some food, so far I think this in order feel free to ask questions I can answer and catch up while I eat.

dann is town
black is town
fire is leaning town
usespython is leaning town
jackson as null
jupiter might be leaning scum
hellbooks as scum
tris as scum

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not done yet

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do you think roden not knowing makes him towny or just someone who didn't read the setup info?

whats happening here

can you expound a bit? thanks.

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it seemed like you're finding this scenario in which your predecessor could possibly have townslipped and trying to get other people to maybe get to that conclusion too

yes that's right.

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hellbooks is like exactly the kind of town slot that is desirable to scum read as scum

kinda think the same about jupiter tbh

it might just be hellbooks, dann, and jupiter and me being completely wrong about tris. jackson still hasn't said anything. it's weird dann was saying things that made sense to me if felt like we were copacetic. and then some shift happened somewhere because they even voted for hellbooks a while back.

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ok
that response really rattled me
um
got it

why did it rattle you?

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[jupiter]
[tris, hellbooks, usesPython]
null——- [Roden]
[JacksonVirgo, Black]
[fireisredsir]

readlist 1/42

can you go through your thinking at this point a bit? I'd rather have it right the first time please and thanks. specifically on jupiter, python, hellbooks, fire and black.

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846 would be a wild post to make about two scum partners i kinda wish it was

I was actually thinking the same thing... get out of my head.

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[jupiter]
[tris, hellbooks, usesPython]
null——- [Roden]
[JacksonVirgo, Black]
[fireisredsir]

readlist 1/42

Why did I drop

And how confident are you in your Jupiter read

i am not really getting the sense you’re trying to solve the game. Y

ou feel extremely tunnel visiony in pushing jupiter

and i think you’re usually trying to put together teams and stuff by now and you’re just… not really doing any of that

I am pretty confident on jupiter!

isn't that what black does? I'm not aware. python seemed to imply so at the beginning of the game sorta. I was scum with them (black) though in that weird game where it happened it was a really weird game though. and I only played with python for like one second. so maybe i'm wrong. but scrolling down a bit I really like blacks posts where they vote for you. it just resonates with me. am I being played by myself?

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ok
that response really rattled me
um
got it

why did it rattle you?

bc i was thinking "hmm... yes... what a scummy thing to do..." and then you were like. "yea i did that. is there a problem?" and that kind of strongly implied to me that it was supposed to be obvious that doing something like that should be totally normal and fine and so i thought about it and maybe idk it was coming from some internalized and overly uncharitable view on blatant self-advocacy

I'm not sure I follow. I saw something that I thought indicated my slot was town and quoted it. If i'm not mistaken I'm one of the names up on the chopping block. I like to play to win and if I die that means my play in general was poor and I didn't do everything I could to win.

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black is probably town but this sucks because she will kill me dead

Why am I probably town though? You keep saying this but you can't explain it. It doesn't feel like a real read

I'm beginning to change my mind on jupiter.

why

you keep falling out of memory all of your posts are almost not related to the game you're actively not trying to solve the game and skimming through open 894 I can see what black is saying about your posts being similar, but I only am putting a little weight on that since it's a very very small sample size.

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mind sharing with the class why

i thought they might be partnered earlier when black was pushing you for things that i knew dann knew were wrong, and he didn't engage with it

but his responses to me when i questioned him about it didn't feel partnered. and since then they've just kind of felt like they're moving through the game on different frequencies, when i think it would be fairly easy for them as players to shape the gamestate into one that would favor them if they were scum together

and i think with the most recent developments there's not much incentive for scum black to jump down dann's throat here if he's scum ramping up a push, but there is a lot of incentive for scum black to do it if it's dann town. or also potentially just town black thinks she sees something

black push on dann feels out of left field andit sure would look good on her if dann flipped scum
furthermore if dann flips scum it also incriminates me since he was pocketing me so it's good and strategic

I think i disagree with this post completely. the progression seems very clear. black asked why they were so low dann explained then black voted for dann and explained why they were voting for them. also I'm all for self-preservation, but it just feels a bit wrong in this case if dann flips scum then I'll also die, but also black is scummy?

did I get the right or am I misreading something, jupiter?

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the above post might make jupiter town... I'm rethinking now. I still want an answer though.

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sorry. that was a jouke. i was hoping to get this post out immediately after i made the joke about the cats but it turns out that it just took long.

ummmm idk why. i dont find dannflors read particularly convinced bc i think there are many reasons why someone might be less passionate or outspoken in a game and i guess there wasn't any scum game of yours that dannflor presented in contrast to your "typical town play" but i didnt think it was forced, i thought it still matched with the general Meta Enjoying ethos of his where he makes interesting observations about other games and comes up with ideas based on that. i also had this random thing where tris describing you "sinking" in her reads scumped me (obviously this is such a minor thing and could even just be me like concocting ridiculous 1 in a 100 chance scenarios) but it felt like a language softening choice in order to risk less of you being retalitory towards her after you calle dannflors read progression bad

wow it took me like 10 tries to remember how to spell the word fiery WHY is it spelled like that i was like FIREY? FIRY? WHAT IS HAPPENING . thats not why the post took long though.

I think hellbooks is calling dann and black both town but it's done in such a roundabout way I had to read it a couple times to make sure I was right. what's your opinion on tris again?

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i really think its strange that you come in and your entire scumsolving persepctive is centralized around the same person as your predecessor's

they must have some really good instincts. since 1 they didn't really say much and 2 I'm barely pushing you.

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alright I'm done reading I skimmed the last few pages let me get my thoughts together and post something.

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you're actively not trying to solve the game

well yes because I've already come to a conclusion about who I think the solve is but generally there's not enough evidence to push it so I leave it hanging in the air. I'm mostly willing to sit on wagons that people have shared reads with me on

iirc it was black and dann and who else?

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I think i disagree with this post completely. the progression seems very clear. black asked why they were so low dann explained then black voted for dann and explained why they were voting for them. also I'm all for self-preservation, but it just feels a bit wrong in this case if dann flips scum then I'll also die, but also black is scummy?

did I get the right or am I misreading something, jupiter?

i'm not sure what you're asking here

you're fine I found the answer later on.

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alright first thought. The game is in a balanced sort of state because mafia thinks this has benefited them in some way. or two we are on the wrong path completely and so mafia hasn't pushed anyone else. in either case I think we need to redirect focus. I really liked danns post on fireisred. i think we should also reexamine the day part where the votes where all scattered I think that's when scum where most comfortable.

VOTE: fireisredsir

I think it's also interesting that python wanted to vote out jupiter and then unvoted them. they say jackson and my slot roden where bad, but do they mean just lurking/not posting bad? because if they did then they don't really have much to go on. it makes me think they might be scum hoping for a mislim. it is eod though. so I can forgive them for it. I'm not recalling where python ever called jupiter scum though. python asked jupiter a bunch of questions at the beginning of the game but never stated what their read of jupiter was after all that I thought that was weird. I remember now it was the vote jupiter placed on dann. funnily enough I think that vote makes them town sided. it just is a bit flabbergasting a dann and black plus unknown scum team in jupiters mind. idk. to me it doesn't scream scum. they could just be terrible though I've never played with them. My initial instinct was to call them town, and I think blacks logic was really compelling on balance though I think I want to stick to my gut read since everyone is kind of all over the place this game. Why does it make jupiter towny? I just think that it doesn't really make sense for scum to call dann and black a team at that point in the game. it feels like a very scatterbrained thought process imo.

as for hellbooks it might just be their posts that i'm having to reread several times to understand what exactly their trying to get at. so i might be biased because of that. if so apologies hellbooks.

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let me take a nap and talk about tris and hellbooks more in depth.

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be back in like an hour

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they could just be terrible though

god damn

apologies if i offended you I meant of course that they're not used to putting what's in their head onto the forum.

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I started going through hellbooks posts in depth and idk maybe i'm completely wrong on them? like they don't really say much about anything. I'm open for a town case on themselves as said in their list to do. very early in the game this is their reads

usesPython, JupiterXV, fireisredsir, JacksonVirgo, Roden,

Black, tris, Dannflor

]

then later on they make a pseudo list?

hat is soooo frickin true tris hold on why are we even bothering with this lets just win right now HEAL: JV, Jupiter, Roden, Python, Black

then finally in 203 and 204 we get to see behind the curtain of their mind and see what they're thinking. it's actually not a bad post at the time imo. It's quite good actually.

at some point they voted jupiter as a joke or maybe it wasn't? to have the vote count not updated or something then they unvote awhile later. we finally get to 377 where hellbooks voted roden as an omgus. It sits bad because as soon as they got attention they retaliated immediately with a vote back maybe i'm reading to much into it though. idk. I do know that I didn't like the vote on it's face. giving me bad vibes. we finally also get 389 which dannflor mimics later on I think. I think prima facie I'm willing to believe this type of post. I would believe much more if I got the game and person you're referring to hellbooks.

roden -> scum with the understanding that there is obvious potential to reverse this read with more posting.... not to pressure you but...
jupter -> unsure, thought was scum at times but got swayed by personality discourse and general liking of posts but still kind of supicious that jupiter is weaponizing transparency in the way that i do extremely shamelessly as scum. Source: other game
dannflor -> so i have been timidly and secretly thinking of him as the guy i would like to lim on d2 if it truly becomes assassin time . but i think common sense dictates that the whole "plausible deepwolfs who would also be a good assassin" is kind of like a really riskly and unpalatable angle. i think its gonna be hard to get ppl to agree to that type of thinking is what i mean. like i think everyone would be like "you are so stupid. we are gonna vote for the scummiest guy on D2 just like normal because we want to hit scum. and the assassin thing is just gonna be an edge case". none the less that is how i have been thinking of him
tris and fire is red sir -> we've gone through a whole lot together them and i. ive only ever seen them as town. they seem to be doing a good job of seeming the way that ive seen them. however, i dont see myself seriously townreading them until a day phase or more has passed. perhaps by that point i will be Dead. they probably feel the same way about me too. doubly so because they actually have seen me be scum so they know that i am capable of fostering evil in my heart. for fire it may even take decades. 5 of them to be exact. and maybe 4 years on top of that.

we also get this reads list roden suddenly becomes scum unless they post something just feels a bit petty. jupiter changed at some point as did roden. For some reason lies and says tris was always town? unless they didn't and were joking with their readslist.

then the next post they have this readlist

usesPython, JupiterXV, fireisredsir, JacksonVirgo, Roden,

Black, tris, Dannflor

the bottom three haven't changed says they think dannflor is deep scum because they're so towny, like that's a sentiment I can understand, but it's gone about such a roundabout way.

I think 508 is such a towny post. makes me want to disregard everything else and just say they're just joshing us this whole time into thinking they were mafia. it shows they're checking the activity log I think that's something townies definitely do imo.

but then they vote python who is like first on their readslist later. maybe i'm confused on how the readslist works i'm reading it left to right town to scum am i wrong? they did say in565 they were giving their vote to someone idk honestly.

their might be some dissonance between their reads list and their votes is what I think is bothering me on balance though I don't see anything that screams this is scum. In fact I'd be willing to bet they don't want to vote for dannflor because they're worried about going against them dannflor might be their top scum read.

okay I'm tired of reading their posts. I'm going to say on balance town sided. I'm going to read tris now.

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I don't think you can iso tris and glean anything useful from it imo. I'm halfway done it's hard to understand what they're saying without the context of the thread. feels overall like them trying to fit in to the players and trying to appear active without actually saying much. I'm about a 1/3 of the way down. They make several posts about being bad at mafia. I'm not entirely sure what to make of that like 3 or 4 so far. they voted python for their iso being empty then voted roden then voted python again I think the vote on roden was a naked vote I would have to go back to the thread again to check. They feel like they are constantly backing off their reads too. black townread felt unsubstantial is what they said and jupiter town read is going off vibes or whatever. Then finally about 2/3 of the way into their iso they don't want to vote for python

tris can I get a readslist and how you came to those conclusions thanks.

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if that didnt goad you into scumreading me until i die ill just VOTE: roden for good measure

terrible vote just screams back away from me.

i dont follow. whats the scummy part of that

it's scummy to me because of how fast it happened roden drops a vote then immediately after hellbooks votes them back. Like rodens 371 is a pretty good post all things considered.

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i believe the readlists have everyone on the same tier and therefore equal

that's going to be a huge nvm then.

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I'm happy to change to tris btw. going to get water.

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what made you decide to focus on hellbooks and tris specifically?

not specifically but felt that they had the most vagueish posts that I needed to sort through. I'm going through python and you next.

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ok i think PC is maybe town and barring that i at least want to play every future game with them

sorry sis I'm terrible as scum.

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VOTE: Black

Serious vote

okay we know right from the start python is JOKING

Black can be our first townread, she's got her thinking cap on in 25

VOTE: JV

this is continuing on the joke since black doesn't say much in post 25.

overall just a misunderstanding but then this happens

The Black unvote progression seems pretty straightforward idk why people are confused

For some reason

it feels like Black doesn't believe our serious vote is serious,

idk why

What makes you think that

If you were taking it serious we'd expect you to either go "grr this is a shitpush" or "what makes you say that" (woah deja vu) instead of the lighthearted banter

You're right, I didn't take it serious.

I think it should be pretty obvious why I didn't but for some reason you threw these in here

Thought it was pretty clearly a joke given that our "serious vote" was dropped before you ever posted in a time that you'd normally be V/LA

I read it as you playing dumb to cast shade and rile me up. I can believe that it was a joke though

Python problem gets resolved

serious vote. get blammed VOTE: usespython

E-2

VOTE: Jupiter

The reaction

this feels like iioa they're saying hey look at this thing that happened and not commenting their analysis of the interactions.

VOTE: hellbooks

naked vote on hellbooks. this is page 6 iirc. I'm willing to let it go though.

Didn't read that game at all, did the nervousness in open 894 have anything to do with both of their teammates getting voted out d1/2 or was it happening even in the earlygame?

I feel like this is just here to go into the other game? to answer though no it dont think it was happening in the early game. they had like 2 walls iirc.

Kinda expected us to have more scumreads in a 3(!) mafia game, makes me feels like most of the team is some combo of deepwolf/lurker

I think this is also iioa like what are your actual thought who would be the deepwolf/lurker that you're thinking it could be?

like maybe Jupiter but not really confident there and that's about it

why is jupiter in your lim list here? at this point in the game I'm actually really curious. I was townreading them early in the game.

Like there's definitely the mental of "oh no bussing loses two scum" but a good team should be able to recognise that bussing here is perfectly playable

pointless post imo

There's an emotional dissonance here, this setup punishes not having scumreads more than Coalition so your lightheartedness about not having scumreads when you were apparently stressing about not having scumreads after the coalition failed is offputting

fa
I think this is interesting because they start pushing on tris here and it's actually an analysis of tris and not just information. Also the english turn of phrases makes it so confusing for me to understand.

btw we'd put tris at E-1 here but I kinda dont want to end the day yet so just consider our vote there in spirit

hesitation about voting for tris because in hammer range? not sure how I feel about that. I'm certain people would intent before hammering.

fire is like 2nd or 3rd on our to kill list but we're fine with going there

I don't remember them ever talking about fire except for them being a deepwolf

The "!" in the first post makes the stressed/not stressed claims believable, there's a noticeable change in writing styles that'd be weird to fake in advance

now they switch to defending tris based on an exclamation mark. fair enough I guess.

feeling pocketed VOTE: dannflor

lowkey kinda tempted to coast someone quote me if anything important happens

This feels pretty ick in a way that's hard to put into words

would you hate me if i asked you to try?

overall I don't think I like pythons slot for town.

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VOTE: python

hmmmm I really want to vote python rn. at this moment in the universe.

VOTE: python

the enemy of my enemies enemy is my enemy!

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we don't have to be enemies imo

let me look through your iso first I'm tired though.

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my dog ate my reads list

it happens well who do you think for sure is town?

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i'm tired from reading probably going to wake up early tomorrow to continue.

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t'would be interested in hearing your thoughts on JV, Political Clout

not much to say really I'm fine with him being the lim today.

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oh right

VOTE: dannflor

dann, you know how to make this vote go away

[tweet][/tweet]

jupiter what do you make of fires vote on you (asking in order to make thinfs inequitable once again)

i will say right off the bat that this time it was probably due to my undying charm and devilishly good looks as opposed to actually being scumm
(Actual answer: no clue)

true

i mostly wanted to see what your response would be

VOTE: dannflor

im pretty sure ive townread dann for that reason before which may or may not be part of why i felt like his lower presence here felt like it could be intentional

like i think if he's scum then his activity level would be specifically in order to avoid looking like he is exerting too much influence on the game/trying to look towny

everyone is scared of deepwolf dannflor

imo dann/black being scum together isn't that likely

it is something that i am on high alert for especially after Dragon's frenemies game that just ended

ranger was someone i thought was town but was very likely to be pushed by scum

and then scum!STD spent all game hard pushing ranger

i think you and jupiter fit a similar profile of having lots of personality based things that are easy to scum read and, like, look *good* to scum read, so if you're town I'd expect you to attract scum

i am currently town reading you both but im not as confident as i was with ranger in that game though. but i like it as a working hypothesis

i am pretty sketched out by this post ngl

dannflor is good at the scum alignment

so what exactly is your problem with dannflor? I would prefer you just say it out loud instead of poking him endlessly.

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I also feel like I don't recall black in the latter half of the game that could just be me going through peoples iso's though.

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I think there's like at most 1 scum on the Python wagon here

My current guess is town-town wagons with an even one-scum spread: one on you, one on me, one off both:

VC 1.18

Votecount 1.18

JacksonVirgo (3):

hellbooks,

tris

, usesPython

[E-2]

usesPython (3):

fireisredsir,

Political Clout

, Dannflor

[E-2]

Not Voting (2):

JupiterXV,

Black

that doesn't make sense gamestate wise. If scum I would go for the easy lim instead of doing all this god forsaken work. also I would be more interested in your analysis of the vote count before we replaced in.

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there is something squicky to me about PC saying my post about fire was very good and then turning around and voting with fire

and like maybe there aren't a lot of worlds where JV makes sense as scum because of The Gamestate but also one of the worlds where JV does make sense as scum is one in which PC and/or Fire are also scum and this is like... exactly the best move to make right here

on the other hand I think python's posting around page 49 is like super contrived and they might just be scum and this is a Good Town Driven flash wagon and I'm just being paranoid

I liked your thoughts on fire but I also liked my thoughts on python. I'm not sure why fire voted for python, but I did feel like voting for python just then. I figured if I don't vote for python I'm admitting to myself that I care how it looks but I should be open to query if I'm town and it should be fine to explain my thought process.

[Political Clout]

dan
jupiter
hellbooks
black
ranger, fire
tris
python

[Political Clout]

I'm fine with a tris or ranger lim as well if people want to switch there. I had the most wonderful nap.

[Political Clout]

python refuses to vote for ranger ranger refuses to vote for python I'm on the edge of my seat. my nails are like sunflower seed shells.

[Political Clout]

that doesn't make sense gamestate wise. If scum I would go for the easy lim instead of doing all this god forsaken work.

Your slot was an elimination candidate before you replaced in

. By default, that requires doing "this godforsaken" work.

A part of my scumread on you is the

feeling you're doing the bare minimum

to shake off the scumread on your slot, rather than genuinely trying to solve.

also I would be more interested in your analysis of the vote count before we replaced in.

My thoughts are reflected in the readslists for the pages. If you have questions about them, you're free to ask.

I never felt that pressure and it certainly didn't seem that way to me tbh.

that's fine. can't change like vibes or whatever it is you're feeling.

[Political Clout]

I'm fine with a tris or ranger lim as well if people want to switch there. I had the most wonderful nap.

I know which of those two you're likely to vote.

is that like a dare or something? your problem with me if i'm right here is that i'm not doing enough or it seems like i'm not digging deep. but what would satisfy you what kind of post should I be making where does enough end for me when is it enough will it ever be enough? this sort of ambiguous amorphous charge against me I'm not buying it. at all. I feel very ambivalent about it in fact. the mixed up ness comes from on the one hand it might be true that I didn't dig deep enough on the other I am actually quite proud and satisfied with what I have done so far especially with at the time I believe it was 20 or 22 hours remaining.;

[Political Clout]

what would satisfy you what kind of post should I be making where does enough end for me when is it enough will it ever be enough?

That's the issue I have with you. You are focused on "what would satisfy". It feels like what you have done has been efforts to satisfy, rather than efforts to solve.

that's my point... you initially started talking about satisfying end goals. I'm just trying to play the game. unless I'm reading it all wrong. you tell me.

[Political Clout]

unless I'm reading it all wrong. you tell me.

You definitely did. Your play has felt like you are trying to satisfy, rather than truly identify scum.

In your engagement with me, you were focused on what would be enough for me, rather than trying to see if my thoughts were genuine or not. It feels like you already know the alignment of players and are making moves to position yourself favorably, rather than you actually putting the thought into solving.

VOTE: ranger okay bub

[Political Clout]

1334 and the python stuff and like trying to dissect the fire / dann relationship

1334

read to me as an attempt to pocket you

. You were in no danger, yet he went out of his way to create a reason for townreading you.

It looked highly performative to me.

That was one of the posts which pinged me on Political Clout in the first place.

Can you give me where the python stuff and the fire/dann breakdown is?

feel free to prove it. point out which lines/ sentences lead you to that conclusion.

[Political Clout]

Can you give me where the python stuff and the fire/dann breakdown is?

Per 1671;
For the Python breakdown,

I felt it was an easy push to make, and the conclusion from it lacked conviction.

The bare minimum.

I don't really see a fire/Dann breakdown.

alright go ahead and prove it point out which sentences/statements lead you to that conclusion and why.

[Political Clout]

feel free to prove it. point out which lines/ sentences lead you to that conclusion.

The context is from the gamestate and your previous posts on her. You had a weak initial scumread on her, and 1334 was a reversal thereof. Scumreading into townread with a case for why to townread is a classical pocketing method. hellbooks was in no danger of being eliminated. Pushing her wasn't ever going to go anywhere, and writing a case for why she's town wasn't going to make an impact on anyone. She was already seen as town with no momentum.

Yet you still made a case on her being town, despite there being no need for it. Altogether, given the prior weak push and the lack of reason, it reads as an attempt to get hellbooks to be pocketed by your efforts.

HUH?
this is all just post hoc analysis.

[Political Clout]

alright go ahead and prove it point out which sentences/statements lead you to that conclusion and why.

usesPython was an easy push to make because there was an easy way to win over the crowd. Dannflor for instance was looking unfavorably upon them for their Jupiter stance in this timeframe. There was a lot of interest in usesPython, and anyone reading the game from their replace-in could see usesPython as a viable push to make.

The lack of conviction, you asking this isn't a real question. It's in literally every sentence in the post. I do mean,

every

sentence, a lack of conviction. You're asking me to quote every sentence you wrote there. I'll simplify by showing the end;

overall I don't think I like pythons slot for town.

you're doing the bare minimum here ergo you are scum.

[Political Clout]

this is all just post hoc analysis.

My knowledged of terms has rusted; refresh me on what this means?

you already decided I was scum when making the analysis and are doing it through that lens.

[Political Clout]

looks like tris forgot ranger was scum reading them and scrambled. Idk if that's town or scum though

[Political Clout]

you already decided I was scum when making the analysis and are doing it through that lens.

I see. In that case, your accusation is nonsense as my play speaks for itself. My reads have been in a constant state of flux, and have constantly been shifting. When I was first reading through the game, I felt the posts hellbooks referred me to were suspect. To see the very posts which contributed to that read be used as reason for townreading you warranted explaining why I found them suspect when reading.

from my pov it just looks like you're accusing me of what you're guilty of.

[Political Clout]

I set my alarm for 4 am it's 6 am now...it did not work.

[Political Clout]

looks like tris forgot ranger was scum reading them and scrambled. Idk if that's town or scum though

you wanna kill tris here?

if necessary. I'm here the whole time. who else is on rn?

[Political Clout]

blacks unvote of ranger and then rangers unvote of black looks theatrical to me.

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if dann or fire aren't here then maybe we should discuss python v tris

[Political Clout]

on the one hand tris just feels like low hanging fruit to me that's easy to be picked.

[Political Clout]

on the other it's almost 80 pages and they have no clue who might be scum.

[Political Clout]

VOTE: python

[Political Clout]

now we're getting somewhere :^)

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wasnt python already voting pc

they switched to you lol

[Political Clout]

might as well say it

[Political Clout]

VOTE: Political Clout

No guts no glory. My target will be ranger.

[Political Clout]

??

It's false bravado.

Ur just waiting on tris to come hammer me. And if it's tris that hammers it makes everything easier.

[Political Clout]

All of them would be on my wagon

[Political Clout]

I'm like 90% convinced of this

[Political Clout]

VOTE: Political Clout

No guts no glory. My target will be ranger.

couldnt ranger take herself out of the game to avoid that

I think it's Jupiter as well now.

[Political Clout]

No reason for me to be an animal either this can be a democracy.

[Political Clout]

UNVOTE:

If I get to 3 I'll hammer

[Political Clout]

I don't see how this makes you feel any better.

[Political Clout]

all voting does here is give the mafia the opportunity to hammer if they find it advantageous assuming political clout is town. now, maybe you're so sure they're not, but i feel like we should allow some discussion first

Why? So far you haven't said anything about who is scum and keep changing your town reads iirc. I don't see how further discussion helps me. My theory was simple scum will come hammer they probably talked at night and killed Dann and assumed that Jupiter had high town equity. Then today Jupiter randomly votes me talk about a 360.

[Political Clout]

all voting does here is give the mafia the opportunity to hammer if they find it advantageous assuming political clout is town. now, maybe you're so sure they're not, but i feel like we should allow some discussion first

Why? So far you haven't said anything about who is scum and keep changing your town reads iirc. I don't see how further discussion helps me. My theory was simple scum will come hammer they probably talked at night and killed Dann and assumed that Jupiter had high town equity. Then today Jupiter randomly votes me talk about a 360.

why would jupiter lead with a vote on you if you're saying that they were supposed to be the one kept alive

It makes sense to me.

[Political Clout]

The Gambit only realistically works if I'm third on my wagon imo. Scum have to hammer. That would reveal one of them early on and gives more time to consider everything.

[Political Clout]

scum gets to remove the hammerer from the game

That's what I'm saying. We already know ranger is one of them.

That just leaves black, hell, and Jupiter.

[Political Clout]

fire and Tris have a higher town equity.

[Political Clout]

Jupiter is already voting me it would then leave hell and black. One of them would realistically be the hammerer.

[Political Clout]

scum gets to remove the hammerer from the game

That's what I'm saying. We already know ranger is one of them.

That just leaves black, hell, and Jupiter.

can you outline for me what you think scum's plan here is

Their plan would be irrelevant. If we force their hand.

[Political Clout]

Generally it's to just create chaos in this time frame. Since they know two of them would have to reveal themselves.

[Political Clout]

scum gets to remove the hammerer from the game

That's what I'm saying. We already know ranger is one of them.

That just leaves black, hell, and Jupiter.

can you outline for me what you think scum's plan here is

Their plan would be irrelevant. If we force their hand.

how exactly are you forcing their hand? what are they being forced to do because of you self votong

The game can't progress normally they eventually no matter how long everyone stalls would come up with a reason to hammer but we already know that whoever hammers is Mafia.

[Political Clout]

scum gets to remove the hammerer from the game

That's what I'm saying. We already know ranger is one of them.

That just leaves black, hell, and Jupiter.

can you outline for me what you think scum's plan here is

Their plan would be irrelevant. If we force their hand.

how exactly are you forcing their hand? what are they being forced to do because of you self votong

The game can't progress normally they eventually no matter how long everyone stalls would come up with a reason to hammer but we already know that whoever hammers is Mafia.

so you don't think any town will vote you?

The chance is their. But it doesn't fit in my world view. Plus we're already announcing what we're doing now. So no it doesn't make sense. They'll come up with any reason to vote me.

[Political Clout]

what if the third scum decides to defend you

It doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the deadline which they will stall for. That's about it.

[Political Clout]

The only thing we realistically need to do is cast our three top scum reads if the thread becomes locked.

[Political Clout]

If we are going to vote it should be between hellbooks and black. I'm pretty much convinced it ranger and Jupiter. I don't like to complicate things.

[Political Clout]

i kinda read jupiter not wanting to vote yesterday as town not having the confidence in a read to place a vote down

so it is a little surprising to me that they apparently did have strong opinions and specifically did not want python to die, when they were in thread at a point where python was a wagon

but i guess the PC wagon didn't really take off until right after they left thread

and i think its like fair to have some hesitancy to leave a vote sitting out there if you know you're not going to be in thread

it doesn't feel like there is really any eagerness to save python or to lim someone else in their posting around that time though

This is the way

[Political Clout]

VOTE: ranger
rly cant come up with a good theory that doesnt have ranger as scum
i invite you people to try
like maybe if jupiter is just bussing black for a full page for 0 reason except to confuse me specifically.... or if poli is scum...

you realize you just tied yourself to me right?

VOTE: ranger

[Political Clout]

are you scum
are you ensnaring me in your web of lies

oh the tangled webs we weave.

[Political Clout]

VOTE: ranger
rly cant come up with a good theory that doesnt have ranger as scum
i invite you people to try
like maybe if jupiter is just bussing black for a full page for 0 reason except to confuse me specifically.... or if poli is scum...

you realize you just tied yourself to me right?

VOTE: ranger

why is this so ominous are you like a Doomed Ship or something do you have a bomb tied to your chest

mafia have to fool either one or two people depending on their "plan" I doubt they have one. but regardless just one person if they are all on my wagon or two people if they're trying to be clever. that's why you see ranger constantly going after me for every small thing. she's v/la atm. but anyways where was I? yeah so two people or one person needs to vote for me. from that we can assume two scum on my wagon since I'm obviously town like come on. that's all really.

[Political Clout]

this game is an uphill battle for scum.

[Political Clout]

if PC is town then maybe that was scum tris fearing PC becoming sassy but why? it doesnt feel like shes in danger in that scenario

I actually think their reaction was genuine I'm not so sure about fire though.

[Political Clout]

I might change to black.

[Political Clout]

if we think about it in more simplifying terms we should vote between hellbooks and black imo.

[Political Clout]

hi ranger wb

ive decided im not gonna listen to a word PC says because all of it confuses me and makes my readlist even more complicated
for a metaphor that maeks it make more sense: my reads are like idk those detective boards with red string. anything PC says adds three extra data points and several more strands of thread

but there is so much to consider.

[Political Clout]

yea i kinda feel like people giving teamsolves rn should be taken with a large grain of salt

town and scum both have motivation to obfuscate

the teamsolve is purely for if the thread becomes locked and the assassin has to guess via pm. unless i'm completely wrong although no idea why it wouldn't be this way.

[Political Clout]

4. After the mafia has made their choice, the thread will be unlocked, the flips revealed, and the assassin will need to submit their guess (in bold) of who the mafia are. Discussion is still allowed by all unflipped players at this point. The game will end after the guess is submitted and the alignment of the assassination target is revealed.

I need to read more.

[Political Clout]

I'm fine with limming anyone and pressing on the gas right now then.

[Political Clout]

id be okay with ranger being the sassy if shes town

sassy? I prefer calling it snark. :P

You'll be sure to get plenty.

hellbooks means assassin they shortened it to "sassy"

[Political Clout]

I'm fine with limming anyone and pressing on the gas right now then.

Why does it seem like you're in a rush

feels like the game has reached it's natural conclusion. no one is really saying anything anymore. in fact you are ready to vote as well if i'm not mistaken.

[Political Clout]

i do think it's better to try to flip scum here though and im gonna vote soon im just rereading some stuff first bc i am bad at not getting anxious and second guessing things

why I feel like it's the same thing I can vote you rn if you want.

[Political Clout]

then we can just put it to another vote and we either win or lose together after the fips and discussion.

[Political Clout]

i think imokay with voting out ranger because she would be a nice assassin but honestly id prefer to nail scum first. tbh. VOTE: political clout.

as if moses himself parted the seas to give us this nugget of truth

jupiter, black, ranger.

[Political Clout]

VOTE: black

[Political Clout]

hmm maybe secrecy is bad actually

secrecy is always bad in a game where 3 out of the 7 people already know everything that needs to be known.

[Political Clout]

hmm maybe secrecy is bad actually

secrecy is always bad in a game where 3 out of the 7 people already know everything that needs to be known.

Huh?

there's 3 scum fire says he has some secret that he doesn't wanna say for reasons 4 of us are town.

[Political Clout]

I'm thinking of switching to fire and trying to convince tris to hammer.

[Political Clout]

pcs probably just scum here

Why

i'm pretty sure i talked about why JV was bad and since replacing he's just been like not towny

is JV me or you?

[Political Clout]

scumslip uh oh

[Political Clout]

I'm going to be assuming 2 scum are on my wagon.

[Political Clout]

and one is hiding somewhere

[Political Clout]

or maybe I should assume all 3 are on it.

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if you're actually town (in which case uhh my bad) there's literally zero benefit to talking right now

nonsense 2 scum will be revealed then we will have allegedly 24 hours I think it's the best time to talk.

[Political Clout]

why would you talk before the scum are revealed though

they're probably talking rn in their pt about who to reveal so they won't be talking here.

[Political Clout]

just something else to consider

[Political Clout]

pcs probably just scum here

Why

i'm pretty sure i talked about why JV was bad and since replacing he's just been like not towny

is JV me or you?

jacksonvirgo???

that's ranger

[Political Clout]

I feel like day 2 is just starting tbh.

[Political Clout]

pcs probably just scum here

Why

i'm pretty sure i talked about why JV was bad and since replacing he's just been like not towny

is JV me or you?

jacksonvirgo???

that's ranger

i'm pretty sure you were JV no

I'm roden

[Political Clout]

I DID NOT JUST

SPEND

THE ENTIRE GAME THINKING THAT POLITICAL CLOUT WAS JV

your true thoughts on ranger reveal themselves over time periods.

[Political Clout]

the only thing I would change is maybe giving the scum a timeframe to reveal who is flipped. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. and now I'm a mayoral candidate for the good people of this town.

[Political Clout]

question is do I figure 2 scum or 3 on my wagon.

[Political Clout]

Yeah I think it's either Tris or hellbooks

I think I agree the fire iso pockets hellbooks and dances around tris. They also try to pull in jv into the game.

[Political Clout]

VC 1.24

Votecount 1.24

usesPython (5):

Dannflor,

fireisredsir

,

Political Clout

, tris, Black

[HAMMERED]

Political Clout (2):

Ranger,

usesPython

Ranger (1):

hellbooks

Not Voting (1):

JupiterXV

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an elimination.

Mod notes:

• Goodnight! Or good morning to you Americans I guess. Also good evening to Python, who's now dead.

question is now do I believe black is town hmmmmmm. I think there are two scum on the python wagon now lol

[Political Clout]

because dan should also be green here

[Political Clout]

I think all 3 might have been on the wagon for some reason hmmmm. I do lean towards jupiter tbh.

[Political Clout]

I think in order to get a hammer all 3 needed to be on my wagon is my thinking.

[Political Clout]

I am feeling more and more convinced all 3 scum were on my wagon so it should be between jupiter and black

[Political Clout]

I am feeling more and more convinced all 3 scum were on my wagon so it should be between jupiter and black

I'M TOWN

we're all going to vote again for who we think it is then I'll pick the one with plurality votes since most of those will be town. If its a tie then I'll just pick.

[Political Clout]

at one point dann was thinking it was jackson, black, fire iirc.

[Political Clout]

and then the wifom got to his head maybe

[Political Clout]

I don't really feel great about tris either lol.

[Political Clout]

in fact my hammer seems to only have gone through when I said I was going to switch to fire and try to convince tris to join.

[Political Clout]

jacksons iso makes me think it's black. both fire and black trying to help them get back in the game. damn hmmmmm.

[Political Clout]

what a headache lol it's fun though.

[Political Clout]

I think I might trust danns early reads they apparently were cooking cooking early in the game.

[Political Clout]

We will lose if you do that

we still need to hear from jupiter.

[Political Clout]

{usesPython}
{Dannflor}
{hellbooks}
{JupiterXV, fireisredsir, tris}
{Black, Political Clout}

lol

[Political Clout]

ranger suspected black from the get go I think. it makes it slightly less likely that they're partners since ranger replaced in.

[Political Clout]

I am growing more and more confident that it's between jupiter and black.

[Political Clout]

fire was flipped because the timing of the hammer clearly implicates them. ranger had to be flipped no matter what if I'm the assassin. it might actually heavily point to town black? or is my analysis wrong here?

[Political Clout]

fire was flipped because the timing of the hammer clearly implicates them. ranger had to be flipped no matter what if I'm the assassin. it might actually heavily point to town black? or is my analysis wrong here?

I am Town but how does this implicate that exactly? I feel like the way fire/Ranger treated me Yesterday is better evidence. Fire tried to get you to wagon me with him and Ranger got upset when I voted for fire without being caught up

I can see a universe where the scum are in the pt and they rush to hammer me, but in that universe why would fire be flipped instead of you. They must have someone who is being townread by me and have a lot of bait imo.

[Political Clout]

its like 60 40 tris for me
the problem is i just keep coming up with alternate explanations for things and finding them believable

you think jupiter is town?

[Political Clout]

im waiting for tris to come back and see what she makes of things

why? lol

[Political Clout]

well maybe she has something awesome to say

why would you lie like this. entire game tris hasn't taken a clear stance on anyone. I don't know what you could possibly be seeking from them.

[Political Clout]

thats been mostly true about tris in the previous three games i played where she was town

so you're saying they're town and jupiter is town?

[Political Clout]

thats been mostly true about tris in the previous three games i played where she was town

so you're saying they're town and jupiter is town?

ill vote tris if we're doing that system

why not black?

[Political Clout]

yall are so scummy lmao

[Political Clout]

I really wish I was the type to let things go lol. idk why it's like an ear worm now I'm thinking it's between hellbooks and black like I predicted a long time ago.

[Political Clout]

you guys ready to vote? I think I am.

[Political Clout]

from jupiter's first page iso I think they're town.

[Political Clout]

from jupiter's first page iso I think they're town.

What makes you think this?

hmmmm just gut for now. I did hesitate when they voted for jackson then unovted them to vote dann. the whole thing seemed a bit odd.

[Political Clout]

that's 2 for hellbooks I'm three any last words before I assassinate?

[Political Clout]

i still think its tris :c i dont rly know what to say other than that

i was thinking of just assassinating tris from the jump actually and then enduring all the hate or glory.

[Political Clout]

i dont know how to respond to black bc the only thing i can think of is like "well ofc she finds a bunch of stuff when PC says its between black and hellbooks" but i just dont see it that way

i didnt rly scrutinize fire at the start of the game bc i thought i would have a rly hard time sorting him. like that was gonna be the endgame problem for me

I don't think they said anything compelling the quoted vote count said another way is that they were on the competing wagon of their scumbuddy and couldn't move since you're not voting anyone.

[Political Clout]

be back in 3 hours then I'll submit you guys should vote for someone.

[Political Clout]

nvm it was cancelled. whatever I'm annoyed now.

[Political Clout]

ASSASSINATE: HELLBOOKS

[Political Clout]

I'm 4th scum.

[Political Clout]

why does your ferret thing have a waterfall?

[Political Clout]

why does your ferret thing have a waterfall?

can i sig this

sure!

[Political Clout]

Thank you for modding the game dragon.

[Political Clout]

I think the assassination phase didn't really go like I planned it to, which is partly my fault. My idea was to give town one last chance with oretty low odds, but instead it turned into rewarding the town for getting mislimmed by making it so they only have to find one scum instead of two total (which they would need if they find scum on day 1 or 2)

what if instead of flipping two you only flip one maffers and then the person who is assassin has to deal with two maffers trying to trick them.

[Political Clout]

Hmmm

And they have to guess both?

They can guess both and end the game their or you can make them only guess one of them. if they get it right maybe the assassin and the maffers both die going to a 3 way.