Open 902: Frienemies Blitz | Postgame
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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vote me?In post 17, gob wrote: Dannflor is wolf.-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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feels like they want to be seen like they are doing something-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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it doesn't have to be intentionalIn post 71, usesPython wrote:
Bold of you to assume we play with intentionalityIn post 56, Dannflor wrote: feels like they want to be seen like they are doing something
could be instinctual-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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i think black and gob are both town
vaguely like STD
i kinda like naerys' defense regardless of whether it is factually true or not-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I very strongly dislike 74
I think if you want to actually talk about way too strong/defensive reactions early in the game, this one from Python is actually scummy
it has the quality of an over defensive reaction while very intentionally trying to seem like they optically don't care
hence the ":shrug:" despite it definitely bothering them given the content of the post and them later slotting me as a "no-no zone read"-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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i also just find most of their posting to be posts for the sake of posting
i don't believe Python actually town reads ausuka in 117
I don't believe they actually scum read me tbh
and i think 121 is like exactly the type of post scum makes in the early game a lot to seem productive but town generally tends to have no interest in-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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In post 71, usesPython wrote:
Bold of you to assume we play with intentionalityIn post 56, Dannflor wrote: feels like they want to be seen like they are doing somethingIn post 73, Dannflor wrote:
it doesn't have to be intentionalIn post 71, usesPython wrote:
Bold of you to assume we play with intentionalityIn post 56, Dannflor wrote: feels like they want to be seen like they are doing something
could be instinctual
I just want to quote this fully because I think the end reaction by Python to my thinking aloud very early push on them is... like not a town reactionIn post 74, usesPython wrote: We just upped the gain on our vibemometer and posted the first thing that came up, if you wanna call that "wanting to be seen like we're doing something" then :shrug:
i don't feel Python cares about actually sorting me (especially considering they later lump me into a scum read pile) but rather is here to solely play defense and "win" this interaction we had-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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In post 152, usesPython wrote:
no-no zone isn't that scummy objectively, it's more that nothing is really happening and other people aren't really pinging usIn post 150, Dannflor wrote: I very strongly dislike 74
I think if you want to actually talk about way too strong/defensive reactions early in the game, this one from Python is actually scummy
it has the quality of an over defensive reaction while very intentionally trying to seem like they optically don't care
hence the ":shrug:" despite it definitely bothering them given the content of the post and them later slotting me as a "no-no zone read"In post 118, gob wrote:
no no zone? wdymIn post 116, usesPython wrote: dann-naerys in the no-no zone, who wants to join as the third
I'm sorry?In post 119, usesPython wrote: they're maf-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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maybe I'm conf biasing but I further don't like that your response to me pushing on this is to try to reframe your reads/reactions as less strong than they are-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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ok, why do you town read that, Python?In post 157, usesPython wrote:
That's cause people are treating this game like a 14 day deadline while we're trying to focus upIn post 151, Dannflor wrote: i also just find most of their posting to be posts for the sake of posting
we townread
In post 75, Ausuka wrote: I personally just found the 'trying to discredit' thing on a blank page 2 scumread to be sorta offputting
I don't really get the python scumreads, I think town often try to get the game started with sort of questionable early reads.-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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the first part is not anything that multiple other people in the game haven't picked up on
the second part of ausuka's post is not a very complicated take either
I'm not saying ausuka is scum but I'm not sure why you get town from that-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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idk i think the "reasonable" early game take is to town read you tbhIn post 165, usesPython wrote:
Like it's a blitz game, first real wagons to pick up will be the ones there by deadline so hitting the breaks on our wagon is townie instead of the usual early scum reasonablenessIn post 163, usesPython wrote: Feel like scum would let it play out-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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that isn't the issueIn post 168, usesPython wrote:
You're not gonna get very in depth reads from us cause the deadline doesn't allow for it, we're very much playing this game in a "see something, shoot something" kinda mannerIn post 154, Dannflor wrote: i don't feel Python cares about actually sorting me
the issue is the kind of interaction i got
im not looking for an in depth read im bothered because you got defensive and then slotted me as scum without really trying to interact with me further despite clearly being very active and trying to get interactions in with people-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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uh i think he's going against the grain (which is not unusual) but it's not in the usual inflammatory/performative way that i usually see from scum!gobIn post 166, Black wrote:
Why is gob townIn post 148, Dannflor wrote: i think black and gob are both town
vaguely like STD
i kinda like naerys' defense regardless of whether it is factually true or not
he seems to be trying to figure things out and work with people-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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incorrect, stop, get off meIn post 183, Ranger wrote: {usesPyrhon}
{Naerys}
{light_ganski, gob}
{Black}
{Dannflor}
P1.
VOTE: Dannflor-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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it's not defensiveness by itself. a pretty general scum tell that I've had a lot of success using is outsized emotional reactions when the prompt doesn't match up. it doesn't really matter if it's defensiveness or sadness or anger, or what have you. the fact is i don't think my push matches up with python's reaction, which i think is unnaturalIn post 181, Ausuka wrote:
I don't generally care about defensiveness and don't really see python's reaction as scummy either.In post 150, Dannflor wrote: I think if you want to actually talk about way too strong/defensive reactions early in the game, this one from Python is actually scummy
If naerys had called it a "bad push" or something on page 2 I wouldn't care at all
The issue to me is that "discrediting" is a more complex idea where I don't really think the gamestate had developed enough for that to be a natural thought process.
re: naerys
I would agree with you normally but I think later posts clarify that is basically what naerys was saying
I think naerys just uses awkward wording sometimes-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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yeah i was gonna say this but didn't know for sureIn post 192, Naerys wrote:
Downside of not being native speakerIn post 189, Dannflor wrote: I think naerys just uses awkward wording sometimes-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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like i don't think the complex thought process you are attributing to the word choice was actually supposed to be there, ausuka-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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also another element to it is python also leaning into trying to look unbothered by my read on them? which i would think if town and having a naturally defensive reaction would not feel the need to doIn post 189, Dannflor wrote: pretty general scum tell that I've had a lot of success using is outsized emotional reactions when the prompt doesn't match up. it doesn't really matter if it's defensiveness or sadness or anger, or what have you. the fact is i don't think my push matches up with python's reaction, which i think is unnatural-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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you are not good at reading meIn post 196, Ranger wrote:
Coincidentally, that’s my take on you.In post 56, Dannflor wrote:feels like they want to be seen like they are doing something
I recall last time I thought this, I was right.-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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gob is difficult too read and i've failed at it recently so i won't defend them overmuch if black thinks she sees something
but i think his tone/vibe is just noticeably different than recent scum performances that I've seen-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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i have said nothing about Python's push on naerysIn post 218, Ausuka wrote: I was responding to what I perceived to be you indirectly saying the push on Naerys was about her being defensive in a way that wasn't actually scummy.-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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i am saying i don't think naerys' reaction was scummy but i think python's wasIn post 250, Ausuka wrote:
The 'actually' here strongly implies it's a contrast to somethingIn post 150, Dannflor wrote: I think if you want to actually talk about way too strong/defensive reactions early in the game, this one from Python is actually scummy
Given the topic of conversation before was pushing on naerys, and it could be characterised as 'way too strong/defensive reactions early in the game' that's how I read it
but i explained why i find naerys' NAI
i wasn't talking about Python's push on naerys
but maybe I misunderstood you somewhere-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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i think scum!ranger is less likely to open the game scum reading me
but i also will not be interacting with ranger for the rest of the game more than likely-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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anyway ausuka i hope you've got enough content to sink your teeth into now-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I think I'm comfortable calling light ganski town-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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can i ask you to give thoughts about any other slot in the game, black-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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So, I understand why you believe that and I know you do that specific tic as both alignments. I do think your defensiveness presents itself differently as each alignment but that's neither here nor there.In post 218, Ausuka wrote: Probably the most important thing to bring up, given it's the point you seem to feel most strongly about, is that I think the 'shrug' thing while feeling defensive is something I personally do all the time and does not come across to me as trying to come across as Not Defensive in a scummy way.
But I want to clarify more on this specific point because I don't think I've done a very good job getting it across so far.AndI think it is a tell that points towards scum a fairly large percentage of the time - definitely more than anything else I've seen happen in this game so far.
Another way to frame what I'm seeing is "scum caught for the wrong reasons." Basically, the person being accused is guilty, but they don't think that what they are accused of hasanythingto do with their guilt. So they push back in a way that's basically like... proving their accuser wrong? It's like, rather than trying to understand where the accuser is coming from, or sort the accuser based off the accusation, they approach the interaction like its something they can win - because they know they can win it since the accuser is definitely wrong! Town tends to approach these interactions differently, whereas even if they get defensive, they are either still trying to place themselves in another person's shoes and/or sort the person going after them.
Python first replies with this. Which like, definitely fits the model of trying to disprove the argument being made against them. usesPython can't be wanting to be seen like they are doing something because they don't play with intentionality! Haha! Dannflor is wrong!In post 71, usesPython wrote:
Bold of you to assume we play with intentionalityIn post 56, Dannflor wrote: feels like they want to be seen like they are doing something
I respond by saying that I don't think it necessarily has to be intentional in 73.
Now Python replies with this. They reiterate that they were just vibing and posting in a stream of consciousness style - ergo, my argument has no basis. Again, not really what I was arguing. But anyway, this is two points in the interaction where Python is clearly approaching it trying toIn post 74, usesPython wrote: We just upped the gain on our vibemometer and posted the first thing that came up, if you wanna call that "wanting to be seen like we're doing something" then :shrug:winthe interaction. From personal experience, I have seen many many scum players respond to accusations thrown against them with the same tone of "well, that's not true and here's why and you're wrong," because that is a very comfortable way to score points. And when a townie makes an argument with a perceived factual fault, that is something scum sees as something that can be "won" against.
I understand some people can be defensive as town too. I understand that Python might even want to take issue with my base accusation even as town. But the reason I find this interaction so scummy is because at no point is Python looking to do anything other than win the interaction. After 71, when I clarify that my argument is not about intentionality, Python basically just doubles down, which doesn't make it seem like Python earnestly wants to engage or sort me. After this point, Python never really talks to me or has much to say about me at all except for when I call him out for not talking to me! They slot me as a scum read or scum lean or whatever Python wants to call it and leaves it at that. And I am doubtful that is a town reaction.
One of the reasons this pinged me so strongly - aside from the sheer amount of times I've seen this exact same tell before - is that Python literally made the same post in a recent scum game almost to the word.
Here is Python in Mini Normal 2316 | Halloween. Python was scum.In post 1191, usesPython wrote:
I mean we literally have a notes PT for exactly this kind of stuff, if I dropped the vote myself I'd probably remember it here but I didn't so :shrug:In post 1188, Black wrote: Having zero clue who your vote is on sounds wild and I don't really believe that. I don't think python is that blase when it comes to the game
Black is accusing Python of being unbelievably blase for not knowing where their vote is. Python responds with a pretty similar post as the one they responded to me with. Python knows that theyactuallydidn't remember the vote and they even have the fact of their usual Notes PT to back it up. The shrug is even there again which I KNOW is not alignment indicative by itself but I do think generally townies are more likely to get straight up indignant about accusations like this rather than try to make themselves seem unbothered. This may not apply to Ausuka.
For reference, I went to a recent town game of Python's and quoted the posts where they directly responded to someone voicing suspicion on Python:
Spoiler: Python Town Game
Small sample size blah blah - but hopefully the difference is obvious and illustrative of what I'm talking about-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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i feel like instead of responding by explaining your scum read of me or try to engage me on any other level you could engage me on
you went straight to the exact thing ive been talking about which is try to find a part of my post that you can prove wrong-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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it's pretty important for you to show me that you are town if you are town-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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i have been miseliminated as town exactly once in over 50 games on this websiteIn post 409, usesPython wrote: we can swing an elim on you-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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whyIn post 411, usesPython wrote: Your tunnel on us feels like a scum tunnel
what differentiates it from a town tunnel to you-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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this is my way of sorting youIn post 427, usesPython wrote: Like you see what we mean by it feeling like your goal is to find things to call us scum for instead of sorting us-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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i know i just finished reading your notes pt from that gameIn post 426, usesPython wrote:
We invented react youtubing back in Weird Dreams ReduxIn post 420, Dannflor wrote: python you've got react youtuber vibes-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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i guess there's two points right now that make me think i could be wrong on you right now
1. the town read on ausuka is on a surface level a tr on someone because they are tring you, and i think that's the kind of thing scum would avoid so blatantly early on
2. you have some self-admitted nervous energy as scum and i guess i would expect to see that coming through more now that there is some pressure on you-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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part of the reason i have been very repetitive with my painting you as scum is because i wanted to see if that nervous energy appeared but it is disappointingly not-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Kinda awk to take a 2 day v/la with a 2 day deadline-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Don’t really have oneIn post 521, Ausuka wrote: Dannflor what is your read on T-bone
This is semi prodge because it's early morning and I'm going back to sleep
I can try to come up with one in a bit-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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In post 504, davesaz wrote:In post 363, gob wrote:
wtf mindmeld with nairysIn post 361, Naerys wrote: Scum team might be ranger+light+pythonIn post 498, gob wrote:Nice. Ive found you towny btw idk why others havent. no offense but i think sometimes you can be lhf type
Strange how gob seems to TR Naerys but then suggests her as an alternative to voting him instead of suggesting a SR of his.In post 502, gob wrote: why vote me instead of naerys who is top wagon?
I am pretty sure one of the votes that felt the need to justify their vote on a slot like gob’s with an “inconsistency” like this is scumIn post 506, Doctor Drew wrote:
Thank you for reminding me of the contradictionIn post 504, davesaz wrote:In post 363, gob wrote:
wtf mindmeld with nairysIn post 361, Naerys wrote: Scum team might be ranger+light+pythonIn post 498, gob wrote:Nice. Ive found you towny btw idk why others havent. no offense but i think sometimes you can be lhf type
Strange how gob seems to TR Naerys but then suggests her as an alternative to voting him instead of suggesting a SR of his.In post 502, gob wrote: why vote me instead of naerys who is top wagon?
VOTE: Gob
Initial feeling is that drew is just lazy town and davesaz is scum-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VOTE: davesaz
Would happily kill davesaz based off that vote alone and probably feel better about that than anything else in this game thus far-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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