Open 898: Don't Fall In The Volcano! | Game Over!
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I just wanna say that Aureal is a freaking QUEEN for making this game
I mean my role is a freaking gladiator!-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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VOTE: Black
VOTE: Titus
Too many queens this game, we should cull them now before they take over the world-
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Whoops, now my vote is on someone else than Black
VOTE: Black-
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Dannflor please be town this game, I have trauma from our last newbie.-
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Thank you, I was beginning to feel ignored
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I was expecting Black to respond tbhIn post 27, Klick wrote:Were you expecting me to respond to anything in particular?
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I would sheep you but I'm already voting her
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I'd also hate to fade you page 2, but you might consider the fact that at least two people are seriously scumreading you and respond to that-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I would ask for more votes on Black but uh... We're at the maximum allowance for page 2.
I wouldn't mind people spiritually voting her though-
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What exactly are you doubting here?In post 39, Black wrote:In post 35, DragonEater70 wrote: I'd also hate to fade you page 2, but you might consider the fact that at least two people are seriously scumreading you and respond to that-
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Easy read and maybe a pocket.In post 42, Black wrote: Neko town-
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Fuck I feel bad bullying Black because I like her as a person, but at the same time I'm having so much fun aggressively tunneling her-
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Very good questionIn post 46, Black wrote: I don't think two people actually scumread me
If you do then what is your read based on?
Unfortunately I have just been told I am waking up tomorrow at 5:30 AM, and it's pretty late right now as it is, so I'm going to do something really scummy and just go to sleep without answering, trusting that skygazer can handle the situation.
Also there's like a 40% chance I wake up at E-1 or something (because of how scummy this move is), but I would just enjoy that soo
Good night-
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Sorry guys for making you wait
I've been in a funeral and I'm quite tired
I'll be typing up my scumread on Black in a second
I just wanna say though that I'm disappointed in all of you for only putting me at E-2. I thought we agreed that I should be at E-1?-
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Black said she doubted I was "seriously scumreading her" on page 2. I think there's no reason to doubt it if you understand that by "seriously scumreading", I thought she had significantly higher chance than random (33-40% instead of the default 25%) to be scum, NOT that I was confident (60-80%) she was scum. Right now, though, I think there's at least 60% chance Black flips scum and I am probably not moving my vote away this day phase.
Let me explain how my read developed:
So the first thing that pinged me scum about Black was the fact that she ignored my RVS poke at her. This might sound silly to you, but experience shows that scum often has trouble reacting properly to "fluff posting" (if you want me to go into long winded examples, I will spoiler them at the bottom of this post). So this was a small ping that raised Black from 25% scum to 27% scum, I'd say.
The second thing that pinged me, and I thought I mindmelded on with skygazer (but it turns out he was scumreading it for an entirely different reason), was Black's attempt to sort of discredit Skygazer's TR on me (at least that's how I read post 26). The scum motivation behind it is obvious because scum don't like town finding each other, and this also ties into meta - I have previously played a game (Open 888) with scum!Black where she discredited reads a lot, so I know it is her playstyle as scum to discredit reads.
Then Black got to E-1, and instead of either defending herself, or trying to find out WHY Skygazer and I were scumreading her (which I feel is what a townie would do), she just posts 32 and 33, which are an attempt to discredit the wagon not by refuting the reasons to scumread her (which are actually valid reasons on both my and Skygazer's part), but by saying (correctly) that limming on page 2 is bad - though that has nothing to do with her alignment. This reads to me as Black knowing she has no way to legitimately defend herself (because she's scum), and so deciding to sort of guilt trip her voters out of voting her by saying it's too early to vote her (+ shading her voters).
This is the point I said I was seriously scumreading Black, and at that point I thought she had about 33-40% chance to flip scum (much higher than random but still less than half).
Since then the following developments occurred that reinforced my scumread on Black (mind you, I only read up to the end of page 3):
Black has no reason to scumread Sky here. This feels like an attempt to scare Sky off her.
This distinctly feels like scum!Black from Open 888 - in that game she also "didn't believe" that I was scumreading her.In post 39, Black wrote:In post 35, DragonEater70 wrote: I'd also hate to fade you page 2, but you might consider the fact that at least two people are seriously scumreading you and respond to that
In post 41, NekoLover wrote: UNVOTE: Black
Just because I don't want to bandwagon someone D1 without knowing much
This feels like both (a) a very "safe" read for scum to make, and (b) a possible attempt to pocket Neko. I don't really see why town!Black would call Neko town for unvoting, because to me it's not that obvious at all than in a town!Black world Neko has to be town to unvote.In post 42, Black wrote:Neko town
Post 46 - As with post 39 above, feels like scum!Black from 888.
If we assume that Black really did SR Skygazer here, I really don't see what made her unvote, especially right after claiming she doesn't believe we actually SR'd her (and especially after a post from Skygazer that I think town!Black would probably interpret as disingenuous, because I know I would). I think the scum motivation behind this is to try alleviate pressure off her, since by unvoting she is subtly giving the message of "let's end this conflict and look elsewhere" (which if you look at the next page, is exactly what Black managed to do).
What's the town motivation for making an "unreal" read???In post 53, Black wrote: Gut feeling that sky and Dragon are town
My Neko townread wasn't real. I actually think unvoting there could be somewhat LAMIST but I'm not sure if I expect from a newbie. I'm not familiar with ToS or any of those other social games at all so I don't know how high his skill level could be here
THEN, Skygazer explained his read on Black, and Black responded:In post 58, Skygazer wrote: the reason i'm voting black is similar to the reason i'm TRing DE70. if no one else is getting it then i guess its possible black is town and just didnt catch the thing, idk
Now THIS is a fake thought process. If Black thought 13 was a townslip and then realized it wasn't, she would have never posted 26. She would have mentioned something about her own thoughts.In post 62, Black wrote: Sky are you talking about 13? I thought this was a townslip until I realized the sample PM's are in the setup post
(btw, JSYK, after I saw my role PM I actually went and checked to make sure that it was in the sample PMs before I posted 13, because I didn't want to accidentally confirm myself as town by claiming flavor in a game where flavor is not an intended part of the mechanics)
Spoiler: The thingies I said would be spoilered are here-
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Sorry for wallpost, I kinda wanted to throw away a lot of the points but I think it's important that I give my entire thought process on Black so you get a full picture. Please read it, but if it's too long, I'll try to make a TLDR.-
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Actually I'll just go ahead and make a TLDR right now (but would still appreciate if you read the wallpost)
I'm currently scumreading Black for these reasons, plus a few more (and I also have not read past the end of page 3):
1. When she got to E-1 on page 2 she made no effort to actually read the people on her wagon or engage with the scumreads, but instead threw a general shade and discredit about the act of putting her at E-1. I think this is because, as scum, Black didn't feel she had a "real" reason to defend herself so she used this as an excuse.
2. A lot of Black's posts on the first 3 pages ping me as very similar to Open 888, a game where she was scum (meta read).
3. I think saying "I also thought for a second that Dragon townslipped but actually it's in the sample PMs" is a fake thought process, and that Black would have not asked Skygazer "why is Dragon town" in 26 if she truly had that thought process.-
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Yep lolIn post 156, NekoLover wrote: I can kinda see dragons points now, and why it was hard for him to just sum it up
UNVOTE: Dragon-
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I agree with Sky's take here.In post 80, Skygazer wrote:
i felt like DE70's townslip was kind of obvious and i felt like the fact that you hadn't picked up on it was scum indicative. i didn't realize it was e1 but i wasnt too bothered by it either tbh.In post 78, Black wrote: I do think it's strange that sky thought I was scum because I seemed confused about her Dragon TR. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just say right then that she thought 13 was a townslip
Putting me at e-1 and keeping it there after I pointed it out doesn't feel great either
Because townslips by nature indicate some knowledge or lack of knowledge that only town have or don't have. Therefore scum are automatically less likely to notice them.In post 81, Black wrote:
Why do you think scum are more likely to miss a townslip?In post 80, Skygazer wrote:
i felt like DE70's townslip was kind of obvious and i felt like the fact that you hadn't picked up on it was scum indicative. i didn't realize it was e1 but i wasnt too bothered by it either tbh.In post 78, Black wrote: I do think it's strange that sky thought I was scum because I seemed confused about her Dragon TR. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just say right then that she thought 13 was a townslip
Putting me at e-1 and keeping it there after I pointed it out doesn't feel great eitherHi, my name is DragonEater70. I like to make weird posts early so I can get to be a major early wagon. It's a hobby of mine.
Weird thought to have after calling me town (presumably for scumreading her? I don't really know what else would make Black call me town in 53).In post 92, Black wrote: VOTE: Dragon
I don't think it feels natural for him to have a "serious scumread" on me this early (35) and I don't like how he was unwilling to explain it. In the time it took him to write an unnecessarily long-winded 48 he could have at least summarized his read
Sky's read makes sense in hindsight, but Dragon's doesn't, and I find it unlikely that he scumread me for the same reasons as her
Also weird to say "Dragon's SR on me doesn't make sense" without hearing my reason first.-
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WOW is this black FAKING not knowing my town meta???In post 94, Black wrote:
This line is throwing me off a little though. If Dragon is scum here then he's aware that this is a scummy move, so I feel like it would make sense for him to just say the read and then go to bed? As opposed to following through with the scummy move anyway. But the last part of "I would just enjoy that" reads a little like he's trying to act casual about being pushed which I think is more likely to come from scumIn post 48, DragonEater70 wrote: Also there's like a 40% chance I wake up at E-1 or something (because of how scummy this move is), but I would just enjoy that soo
I'm a bit conflicted here-
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Me and SkyIn post 105, Claptastik wrote:
Which two?In post 35, DragonEater70 wrote: I'd also hate to fade you page 2, but you might consider the fact that at least two people are seriously scumreading you and respond to that-
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Huh?In post 125, Black wrote: You included me in the group that could go either way which seems a bit unnatural-
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I actually thought it was shade on NekoIn post 129, Claptastik wrote:
Fishing for town reads?In post 124, Black wrote: That's fair. I guess what I'm getting at is it seems like the natural progression of having a strong feeling that Dragon is scum combined with not thinking we are partnered would be to think I'm probably town-
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This is very transparently Black's scum partner
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If it was implied, what benefit does it give you to call it "a bit unnatural"?In post 139, Black wrote:On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?
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LOLIn post 143, Dannflor wrote: I would like to roll scum with black one day-
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In post 144, Black wrote:
Doesn't seem very fair to the town now does itIn post 143, Dannflor wrote: I would like to roll scum with black one dayIn post 145, Black wrote: Rolling scum with you would be fun but I think hydra'ing with you would be even betterIn post 147, Dannflor wrote: I don’t really like hydraing but maybe one day I’ll change my mind
Nice distancing, I'm apparently too good though cause I'm seeing right through it.In post 148, Black wrote:
I'm curious where this read comes fromIn post 138, Dannflor wrote: Black town-
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Read on Black?In post 161, Klick wrote: DragonEater even more town-
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If I understand correctly, she was saying it's unnatural you aren't saying she's town even though you are implying she is. IDK thoughIn post 177, NekoLover wrote:
If I understand it correctly, she was saying that it was unnatural I wouldn't consider her town if I considered you scum and I didn't think you two were scum partnersIn post 173, DragonEater70 wrote:
If it was implied, what benefit does it give you to call it "a bit unnatural"?In post 139, Black wrote:On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?
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Why?In post 162, Black wrote: Yeah I still doubt that btw even with your clarification
Proof?In post 162, Black wrote: I don't have trouble responding to fluff posting as scum
Maybe. I haven't seen any sorting from you since then, though.In post 162, Black wrote: You're reading this wrong. I was trying to sort sky with 26, not discredit her. I didn't think the townread made much sense and I wanted her to explain it
Since when are votes "just pressure"? Especially when Sky explicitly called you scum and I explicitly said I would sheep him?In post 162, Black wrote: If I didn't think either of you legitimately scumread me then it makes sense for me to not care about figuring out the reason behind it. I thought it was just pressure
IF you actually didn't think that, OK. As I said above, it makes no sense to me that you would think the scumreads aren't real.In post 162, Black wrote: I didn't feel the need to defend myself because I didn't think the scumreads were very real
Why wasn't it scummy for Klick or I not to unvote you then?In post 162, Black wrote: This isn't true. I thought it was scummy that sky decided to keep me at e-1 knowing that someone could just come in and random vote me without noticing how close I was to dying
Why would you make a joke read there? I've never seen someone make a "joke read" in this way (I am not seeing I've never seen any joke reads, just not THIS way).In post 162, Black wrote: 42 was a joke read. I didn't really townread Neko from that as I explained in subsequent posts
Kinda makes it hard to know if I should believe this or not if you don't explain the thought process.In post 162, Black wrote: I had a theory floating around in my head that I don't really want to go into atm. I unvoted because I thought sky might be town
It wasn't even slightly funny.In post 162, Black wrote:To be funny
Hmmm okayIn post 162, Black wrote: This isn't true at all. I was expecting other players to realize it wasn't a townslip either, especially sky who is a veteran around here. I wanted sky to explain her townread. It wasn't until later that I realized it could probably be because she didn't understand 13 wasn't a townslip
What changed your mind about me?In post 163, Black wrote: VOTE: Claptastik-
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In post 184, Klick wrote:
I'm not really swayed by your case on Black but regardless I think Black!scum is pretty plausible atpIn post 178, DragonEater70 wrote:
Read on Black?In post 161, Klick wrote: DragonEater even more town
She needs to start towning yesterday
I'm not fully getting thisIn post 183, Klick wrote:
Do you think she's scum? If not, why the exclamation point? If yes, why do you disagree (?) with my case?-
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YepIn post 185, Claptastik wrote:
It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.In post 139, Black wrote:On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?
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If you are both town I will apologize postgameIn post 186, Black wrote:
I can't wait to see the pie on your face once I'm goneIn post 176, DragonEater70 wrote:In post 144, Black wrote:
Doesn't seem very fair to the town now does itIn post 143, Dannflor wrote: I would like to roll scum with black one dayIn post 145, Black wrote: Rolling scum with you would be fun but I think hydra'ing with you would be even betterIn post 147, Dannflor wrote: I don’t really like hydraing but maybe one day I’ll change my mind
Nice distancing, I'm apparently too good though cause I'm seeing right through it.In post 148, Black wrote:
I'm curious where this read comes fromIn post 138, Dannflor wrote: Black town
And will also die of embarrassment before postgame-
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Damn I'm offendedIn post 188, FakeGod wrote: I don't think putting someone to E-1 on page 2 and keeping her there is a good idea, because how easy it would be for a scum (or town) to "accidentally" place hammer and evading responsibility on Day 2. Now, if an actual quickhammer had occurred and the flip was scum, I would give massive towncred to the hammerer, but that is besides the point. I'm also not sure if Black was scum or not, because I can see myself reacting like that if I were to run up to E-1 right away, and I can see a scum player faking it as well.
I think the main engine behind the wagon was Sky and Dragon, and I see a strange but plausible town motivation and explanation from Sky's posts, hence my Dragon vote.
However, 154 is so cringey that I'm having trouble seeing scum Dragon writing it. If that is within his scum range, then bravo.
VOTE: Klick-
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I'm too tired to read through this right now and expect to actually get anything out of it, but I promise I will read this later and I even promise to do so in good faith and without assuming you are scum while reading it.In post 189, Black wrote:
Here, here, and here. I've never heard the theory that scum have a hard time engaging with fluff postingIn post 180, DragonEater70 wrote: Proof?
Then you're either blinded by your tunnel or deliberately ignoring it. I've engaged with Neko and Clap in attempt to sort themIn post 180, DragonEater70 wrote: Maybe. I haven't seen any sorting from you since then, though.
Pressure votes are like the most common type of vote early in the game. I didn't think I had done anything scummy to warrant an actual scumread, and I still don't. Your case is pretty garbage tbhIn post 180, DragonEater70 wrote: Since when are votes "just pressure"? Especially when Sky explicitly called you scum and I explicitly said I would sheep him?
Now you're just moving the goalpostsIn post 180, DragonEater70 wrote: Why wasn't it scummy for Klick or I not to unvote you then?
Your original point was that I didn't have any reason to scumread sky, and that's incorrect. But to answer your question, I voted for sky at the exact same time you and Klick posted so I didn't really digest that neither of you unvoted
In post 180, DragonEater70 wrote: Why would you make a joke read there? I've never seen someone make a "joke read" in this way (I am not seeing I've never seen any joke reads, just not THIS way).
I was slightly relieved that Neko unvoted and I felt like calling him town for it, shrug
I don't care if you think it's funny or notIn post 180, DragonEater70 wrote: It wasn't even slightly funny.
You kinda just seem like tunneled town that is knee-deep in confirmation bias. You're reading my posts through a scum!Black lens so you think everything you're seeing is scummy. I feel like this is more likely to come from townIn post 180, DragonEater70 wrote: What changed your mind about me?-
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One thing Black - sorry if it sounded rude when I said your joke wasn't funny, what I meant to say is that it didn't sound like a joke to me-
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The wonders of having a 7 hour difference (it's 7 AM here)In post 214, NekoLover wrote: EST; It's current 12:06 AM here lol-
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Sorry to hear that (also I have a feeling 90% of the users on this site often go to sleep past midnight).
Where do you stand with regard to reads? Do you think it's likelier me and Black are both town or that one of us is scum? What do you think about Dannflor and Klick?-
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Huh???In post 202, Klick wrote:
...I quite like this actuallyIn post 191, Dannflor wrote:
why didn’t you vote klickIn post 185, Claptastik wrote:
It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.In post 139, Black wrote:On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?
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Is there something I'm missing here? Why was Clap supposed to vote Klick?-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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How is Titus scum? She very explictly said she cannot post in ANY of her games until Sunday (which is already Sunday for me but for her it's probably Sunday morning in 10 hours if I have my timezone correctly).In post 221, NekoLover wrote: Honestly my feeling is that you and black are both town and its just you two being extra picky over each other; the E-1 on page 2 seemed very random, and I have a feeling would've been hammered without much info if I didn't Unvote. I think sky is also another case of aggressive townie, my gut feeling right now is saying that titus and maybe klick is scum; Dannflor doesn't really rub off as scum but i haven't had the chance to really interact with them to be fair
Is the post Black quoted the only reason ypu scumread Klick?-
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Yeah okay
@Dann why Klick? You didn't give any reasoning-
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I seeIn post 227, NekoLover wrote: If I was more certain of my gut feeling, I'd definitely place klick at e-1, but my gut can very easily be wrong
I don't really like the Klick wagon at all, but I don't really care to explain why before Dann explains his own reasoning for starting it.-
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RE: percentages - yes, of course.
What I meant is do you think Black has like, 30%, 50%, or 70% to be scum (as an example)?
RE exclam - okay makes sense, so you were basically mindmelding and wanted to point it out.
Last paragraph - sure. Then what do you scumread her for?-
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I'm kinda convinced at least one of Black/Dann has to be scum here
And based on my vote I guess I am leaning more on Dann
But I'm still waiting for him to explain the vote on you before I conclude he's scum.-
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Fake - I will explain my reasoning only after Dannflor explains his.
I don't think any of what you said is scum indicative for Klick, and I am kinda questioning why you are voting him and not Black/Dann based on the people you eliminated from the scum pool.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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My location is actually outdated, as I am not currently in Europe :pIn post 250, Claptastik wrote:
Where is 7 hours difference from EST in Europe? I'm traveling there next summer for the first time.In post 216, DragonEater70 wrote: The wonders of having a 7 hour difference (it's 7 AM here)
But Ukraine, Romania, Estonia etc. should all have 7 hour difference from EST.-
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Yeah Klick is my strongest TR, and with how Clap has been towning it up recently, they are a close second (Neko/Sky were previously tied for second place and are now tied for third place)In post 247, Claptastik wrote:
This reminds me of myself as town. I like having wagons on me as that generates the best information. Klick has a wagon, but he's not defensive, he's letting it get reads. Black OTOH has been hard defending all day.In post 202, Klick wrote:
...I quite like this actuallyIn post 191, Dannflor wrote:
why didn’t you vote klickIn post 185, Claptastik wrote:
It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.In post 139, Black wrote:On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?
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Clap are you an alt? You speak like a pretty experienced player-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Cool
Now let's NOT unvote unless there's an actual good reason to. Even if someone (Black/Dann/FG) comes along and says "Oh my gosh are you trying to lim Black on page 11? This is so anti tooooown"
Because I am pretty sure nobody is planning to hammer before she responds and claims etc etc and before Dann has a ten-post-long monoluge about why Black is town and Klick is scum (BTW if the monoluge is any less than half a page, I am telling you in advance I am not gonna buy into it)-
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Black how about instead of admiring the coolness of the use of BBCode inside quotes, you give me a rundown of who do ypu actually TR right now and why? I'm specifically interested to know who you TR out of the people on your wagon.-
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