Open 893 - 09:12 - Postgame

[Puffalicious]

Good morning everyone! Right now I only have around 10-15 minutes of access to the forum and will be back in around 4 hours.

[Puffalicious]

I’m the other head.

People voting us are town

[Puffalicious]

I made post 29 and my partner Gob made post 30 and he will have to elaborate more on this. I was in a rush and forgot to put my initial.

- A

[Puffalicious]

I will have to read the setup again when I'm back on a computer. I see the players are talking about the setup and I don't understand what you guys are saying.

- A

[Puffalicious]

I thought all the votes on me were RVs which is why I did not take any of the votes serious.

- A

[Puffalicious]

What do you make of gob TRing the votes on you?

Either he was joking or those are his actual reads. I have seen before some players would town read all of their voters and I guess they do this is because players are doing something with their votes and he probably sees something that I don't see. As of right now I don't have any reads.

- A

[Puffalicious]

I have a really hard time reading setup speculation without my eye's glazing over, but I think I ultimately followed it. I do think I generally get a town read on ssbm because of it though. Maybe also Mizuki.

UNVOTE:

Are you town reading them because of the setup talk? Those type of stuff are nai.

- A

[Puffalicious]

One half of me is Adorable.... the other half is Ugly.

[Puffalicious]

VOTE: CrabApple

Crabs should not be apples as well.

Do you still think CrabApple is scummy after 3 pages?

Heyyy
VOTE: shaddowez

Do you still think Shaddowez is scummy after 3 pages?

Been a long long while since I've played one of these so looking forward to getting going.

VOTE: Cobblerfone

Do you still think Cobblerfone is scummy after 3 pages?

I'm constantly in a state of looking up the many acronyms used on the wiki.

VOTE: Mizuki

Crabs are people, clams are people.

Do you still think Mizuki is scummy after 3 pages?

[Puffalicious]

Crab has not posted anything past their alt-slip, so their very much a null at this point.

If I can ask, what exactly do you hope to gain from questioning people's RVS votes?

Just testing somethin.

I think Celebloki is town btw.

[Puffalicious]

@Puff Why is Celebloki town

Seems towny based on their response to what I asked.

[Puffalicious]

With the way Puff's responding, I'm sticking with my vote for now. Assuming the head that posted 30 is the one posting recently, they've had ample time to respond to the questioning. Though they might be trying to do something.

Though there are statistical reasons for me to doubt they're mafia, especially since I'm not sure it makes sense for Kyouko to be Puff's partner. Unless she has a history of bussing? I'll research that sometime today or tomorrow. I'll definitely have more free time tomorrow.

What is there to respond to? I just said that to get attention going, nothing that serious.

[Puffalicious]

I don't like how ssbm_Kyouko misrepped mine and gob's posts. It will take a while for me to respond to this post and from my understanding gob has been baiting reactions.

- A

[Puffalicious]

Crabapples, while not very edible by themselves, make a delicious jam and I am no sad that my MIL stopped making it.

@Mizuki

What about 30 do you not like enough to vote? At best, it seems like WIFOM to me.

It's just vibes, it came off as a very "bored" response to the RVS wagon forming on them, and in these early stages of the games that's what I find to be Maf-indicative since I don't think a lot of people enjoy playing Maf on this site, at least not as much as they enjoy playing Town, for various reasons. I could obviously be totally reading the tone wrong or reading too much into it, but I also don't think theres much harm in keeping the hydra at E-2 for right now.

I don't understand how did #30 came off bored to you and you will have to elaborate on that. From my pov he gave reads and I don't see how is giving reads boring to you. I also found it funny how gob outed an alt and I would have assumed that should have been funny for other players. Also, you did not do a follow up post to gobs post where he said he was testing something.

- A

[Puffalicious]

With the way Puff's responding, I'm sticking with my vote for now. Assuming the head that posted 30 is the one posting recently, they've had ample time to respond to the questioning. Though they might be trying to do something.

Though there are statistical reasons for me to doubt they're mafia, especially since I'm not sure it makes sense for Kyouko to be Puff's partner. Unless she has a history of bussing? I'll research that sometime today or tomorrow. I'll definitely have more free time tomorrow.

What is there to respond to? I just said that to get attention going, nothing that serious.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "get attention going" and your motive for doing so? Or by "nothing that serious" are you claiming it was tongue-in-cheek?

Look, im not gonna sit here and answer a bunch of these questions. They're really time wasty and the type of player my am, I get asked them often.

I wanted to make a big impact on my first real post, so I said that. It's nothing serious because I went back and read everything more seriously and my thoughts have changed. My read on Celebloki is real though, and then whatever my other head says I may not agree with but I condone.

[Puffalicious]

The main reason I originally said everyone voting us was town was because I have a general read that scum looks to distance from their partner first, sometimes in the form of a vote.

But again it really want meant to be super serious. Just throwing something out there to get discussion going.

[Puffalicious]

@ssbm_Kyouko

Since you said you felt gobs tr on Celebloki was tmi then what did you think of his reaction bait?

The post of mine you quoted I don't understand what you're saying. You said you saw it odd I did not notice or wasn't paying attention you voted Celebloki and why should I react to your vote on him when I wasn't even town reading him? A null slot and your vote on him with little to no reason doesn't need any responding to when it has nothing to do with my slot. Celebloki is the one who got a vote from you and if he wants he can choose what action he takes.

The paragraph where you talk about #86, you said gob ignored the answer to #83. gob did not make #83 and it was me who made that post which was yesterday and I come back today and noticed that post. You are getting our heads mixed up.

- A

[Puffalicious]

Though there are statistical reasons for me to doubt they're mafia, especially since I'm not sure it makes sense for Kyouko to be Puff's partner. Unless she has a history of bussing? I'll research that sometime today or tomorrow. I'll definitely have more free time tomorrow.

Is this post trying to imply you have a scumread on Kyouko? Why?

No, between Kyouko and Puff, Puff is more suspicious. I have a mostly town read on Kyouko. If Kyouko had backed off of Puff I would have been strongly suspicious of them both, but see my previous post. (sorry for the confusing order, I guess I should click the older notifications first?)

Your vote on my slot is the only vote I can understand and I agree if gob and me were playing together not as a hydra I would also suspect him for ignoring. Can you elaborate your town read on Kyouko? It looked like they misrepped my slot and normally I don't like it and I'm figuring out if it's a town misrep or a scum misrep.

- A

[Puffalicious]

@ssbm_Kyouko

Since you said you felt gobs tr on Celebloki was tmi then what did you think of his reaction bait?

The post of mine you quoted I don't understand what you're saying. You said you saw it odd I did not notice or wasn't paying attention you voted Celebloki and why should I react to your vote on him when I wasn't even town reading him? A null slot and your vote on him with little to no reason doesn't need any responding to when it has nothing to do with my slot. Celebloki is the one who got a vote from you and if he wants he can choose what action he takes.

The paragraph where you talk about #86, you said gob ignored the answer to #83. gob did not make #83 and it was me who made that post which was yesterday and I come back today and noticed that post. You are getting our heads mixed up.

- A

I thought gob hadn't posted yet as of my last post. Aside from the first one or two posts you made before you noted you forgot to sign, I assume any unsigned posts are gob's? I'll have to reread the full interactions between Adorable and Celebloki separately from gob and Celebloki.

Yes, any unsigned posts are gobs. #29 is the only post I made where I forgot to sign my initial.

- A

[Puffalicious]

@ssbm_Kyouko

Since you said you felt gobs tr on Celebloki was tmi then what did you think of his reaction bait?

The post of mine you quoted I don't understand what you're saying. You said you saw it odd I did not notice or wasn't paying attention you voted Celebloki and why should I react to your vote on him when I wasn't even town reading him? A null slot and your vote on him with little to no reason doesn't need any responding to when it has nothing to do with my slot. Celebloki is the one who got a vote from you and if he wants he can choose what action he takes.

The paragraph where you talk about #86, you said gob ignored the answer to #83. gob did not make #83 and it was me who made that post which was yesterday and I come back today and noticed that post. You are getting our heads mixed up.

- A

Assuming 30 was his reaction bait, I think it got the game moving and alone isn't really AI.

I think that when sorting a null slot it is beneficial to look at their reactions and feelings towards votes against them. Yes I had little to no reason posted in my vote, but it instead of reacting to it directly you might think, when asking why Celebloki TRs me, that you would mention my vote on him as it pertains to my slot. It's not necessary to mention but feels relevant to consider.

#86 was the post from gob that looked like a reaction bait when he said afterwards he was testing something and since I saw you say gobs read on Celebloki looked like tmi I wanted to know what was your thoughts on that post of his that looked like a reaction bait which was before his read on Celebloki.

I think I'm slowly starting to understand what you're saying here and it looks like you're wondering why I did not question you're vote on Celebloki instead of a town read on you. Town hunting and forming a town core and voting in the poe can be helpful. If you are town, I wanted to try to understand the town reads on you so that I could remove the player being town read from being in a poe.

- A

[Puffalicious]

Though there are statistical reasons for me to doubt they're mafia, especially since I'm not sure it makes sense for Kyouko to be Puff's partner. Unless she has a history of bussing? I'll research that sometime today or tomorrow. I'll definitely have more free time tomorrow.

Is this post trying to imply you have a scumread on Kyouko? Why?

No, between Kyouko and Puff, Puff is more suspicious. I have a mostly town read on Kyouko. If Kyouko had backed off of Puff I would have been strongly suspicious of them both, but see my previous post. (sorry for the confusing order, I guess I should click the older notifications first?)

Your vote on my slot is the only vote I can understand and I agree if gob and me were playing together not as a hydra I would also suspect him for ignoring. Can you elaborate your town read on Kyouko? It looked like they misrepped my slot and normally I don't like it and I'm figuring out if it's a town misrep or a scum misrep.

- A

Is there a scenario where you would like being misrepresented?

No

- A

[Puffalicious]

Kyouko I have light TR on mostly from vibes
Thomith I think is rather towny, I think there’s some good questions asked by him
Elements I’m slightly concerned about. I feel like the first 3 CrabApple posts are fake new-ness on reflection.
VOTE: Elements
Still don’t have a lot of feelings about shaddowez so that vote feels stale

Some of Kyouko's posts from today when I was interacting with her where she was misundersood and I cleared up for her which head was posting it did give off town vibes.

Thomith has made some good questions and has a good tone and it made me wonder if he is good playing as scum which got me paranoid a bit and later on I plan on having a look through some of his completed town and completed scum games.

CrabApple's first 3 posts looked like they were goofing off in rvs and it didn't look like fake newness. Those 3 posts looked null.

- A

[Puffalicious]

I will say Elements vote on me was completely fair and did seen town motivated to try and get the game moving. Sure, they singled me out, but to be fair, I was the only person who was fully waiting on a response without analysing anything else further, which again to me makes the vote seem more town motivated vs opportunistic Mafia motivation.

Admittedly, as I said before, I had tunelled quite a bit on post 30, and wasnt really paying attention to much else.

I saw that post from Elements and it looked more like to me that was her thoughts and I didn't know it was an attempt at getting the game moving.

- A

[Puffalicious]

Kyouko, what are your takes on Gamma, Elements and Cobb rn?

I'm waiting longer on Gamma. I have a lot of history with her and feel confident in catching scum!Gamma eventually if I'm alive. Null/Town on her so far and is out of my poe for D1 sort of by default because of how I feel about my ability to catch her later on if she is scum. For something more concrete though, I'll say nothing of her's has pinged me so far.

I haven't noticed Elements/CA really yet. From memory I would say they are going with the flow mostly but haven't ISOed.

I've noticed a few people are buzzing about Cobbler and I've been more focused on Puff before Cobbler's most recent posts. I haven't formed much of an opinion on any of Elements, Cobbler, shaddowes, or Thomith yet as I've been phone posting and mostly focusing on Puff today. I have noticed all three have contributed more today so I'll need to read them with more focus now that I've straightened out my previous SR on Puff.

What's your secret on reading Gamma and is your read on Gamma from previous games always correct? I have spectated some of her completed games a few years ago back when I used to be active and I always had a hard time reading her.

- A

[Puffalicious]

I don't think Gamma is a good vote

Agreed.

VOTE: Elements

Since Gamma is on this.

[Puffalicious]

When rereading I just realised something I did not notice before.

I fully only thought there were like 2 or 3 of us questioning Puff about post 30, but on a reread it seems like it was over half the playerlist in the entire game that was questioning the slot (Me, Gamma Emerald, Cobblerfone, Elements, Mizuki, Kyouko) either directly on post 30, or on other things after it became clear that the Puff slot had gained a lot of attention. That definitely gives me vibes that Puff could very feasibly just be Town, and there was at least one Mafia jumping on that seemingly easy train of thought/suspicion.
Again this also makes me more tempted to read Elements as Town currently, as it did look like they were trying to avoid this happening, at least to me.

This post from Thomith looks like a post only town would say and I am leaning town on him for this. I said earlier I was getting town vibes from Kyouko and I am leaning town on both of them right now.

- A

[Puffalicious]

Because it's lazy and that feels more like town than scum. The alternative is that you're scum scrambling desperately to push Gamma for {arbitrary reasons} and I don't think that makes sense in the gamestate unless the scumteam is exactly {Cobbler, Elements}, and even then that's a stretch because in that case there are still like 3 low-activity slots that could be pressured to divert attention from Cobbler instead.

I read it as nai the way how elements did it. It would look towny if she provided evidence of the posts from the completed game while also reading the completed game for the first time.

- A

[Puffalicious]

Because it's lazy and that feels more like town than scum. The alternative is that you're scum scrambling desperately to push Gamma for {arbitrary reasons} and I don't think that makes sense in the gamestate unless the scumteam is exactly {Cobbler, Elements}, and even then that's a stretch because in that case there are still like 3 low-activity slots that could be pressured to divert attention from Cobbler instead.

I read it as nai the way how elements did it. It would look towny if she provided evidence of the posts from the completed game while also reading the completed game for the first time.

- A

what do you make of me unvoting Elements?

I wasn't able to get a read on it.

- A

[Puffalicious]

but like, your whole vote on Elements was predicated on me voting them, so me unvoting should have staying power?

It was gob who voted Elements. He said he thinks he could hit scum.

- A

[Puffalicious]

but like, your whole vote on Elements was predicated on me voting them, so me unvoting should have staying power?

I was choosing between Elements and someone else... cant remember who. And I chose Elements because I saw you were on it, although I guess you unvoted at some point.

I felt Elements was scum based on their opening as Crab btw. Idk how Adorable feels about Elements but I am down to vote that slot.

[Puffalicious]

but like, your whole vote on Elements was predicated on me voting them, so me unvoting should have staying power?

I was choosing between Elements and someone else... cant remember who. And I chose Elements because I saw you were on it, although I guess you unvoted at some point.

I felt Elements was scum based on their opening as Crab btw. Idk how Adorable feels about Elements but I am down to vote that slot.

Does the fact i was intentionally doctoring my posts so I wouldn't be recognised change your read at all?

No not really. I am not tied to my read though, if someone else comes along that looks scummier I will go there. So,

[Puffalicious]

In general when I look at a player's post with town reads on players I don't have a town read on, I am not able to tell if it's tmi or not. I have a different method on reading through a player who looks like they had tmi which happens in later day phases.

- A

[Puffalicious]

I'm not like him.

[Puffalicious]

Anyone else think shaddowez is scum here? just based off the first post.

Elements is being scummy too. But there is the whole alt thing so idk.

What do you think @kyouko

[Puffalicious]

Anyone else think shaddowez is scum here? just based off the first post.

Elements is being scummy too. But there is the whole alt thing so idk.

What do you think @kyouko

What's scummy about what is essentially an ego post?

Over explainy first post. "Sleep now." "Post tomorrow"

Scum feels the need to over explain, especially in a scenario where they legit gotta go. Town would just be like "sup" and leave.

[Puffalicious]

Anyone else think shaddowez is scum here? just based off the first post.

Elements is being scummy too. But there is the whole alt thing so idk.

What do you think @kyouko

What's scummy about what is essentially an ego post?

Over explainy first post. "Sleep now." "Post tomorrow"

Scum feels the need to over explain, especially in a scenario where they legit gotta go. Town would just be like "sup" and leave.

That's kind of what I assumed you meant.
Hm. I guess I could see it, but I do want to hear more from him before making a full judgement.

That's fair. what do you think about elements/crabapple

I feel like their opening was bad enough to warrant a vote today.

[Puffalicious]

Okay, makes sense.

I will probably vote Shaddowez, or whoever Adorable wants. But I have a good feeling about Shaddowez.

However... limming mafia Day 1 is not always the best for Town since it makes the last mafia harder to catch since no associations. Magnified by shaddowez never posting.

So I'll need to hear what everyone, as in everyone, thinks about Shaddowez.

[Puffalicious]

I did not like imaginality's catch up. The wallpost looked like the kind of post scum would make to fake a read and it looked like he was pairing Cobb's and me as scum buddies. Pairing 2 players as scum I consider it scum trying to setup chain mislim. The part where imaginality said where I was rewarding a town read made no sense to me.

- A

[Puffalicious]

Readslist:

Yay!

Thomith
Elements
Mizuki
Kyouko
Gamma
Puff
Shadow
Cobb

Nay!

On your wallpost you have talked about Cobbs and me and when I looked at your reads list here I see you put Shadow below me. What is it about Shadow you did not like and why did you not have anything to say about him?

- A

[Puffalicious]

I did not like imaginality's catch up. The wallpost looked like the kind of post scum would make to fake a read and it looked like he was pairing Cobb's and me as scum buddies. Pairing 2 players as scum I consider it scum trying to setup chain mislim. The part where imaginality said where I was rewarding a town read made no sense to me.

- A

Only would be a chain mislim if Cobb (or you) are scum otherwise it fails as soon as one flips town. So are you saying you're sure Cobb is scum?

Chain mislim means when it's a town flip. I don't know what Cobb will flip. I get pinged alot when I see someone pairs 2 people as scum when there hasn't been a scum flip yet.

- A

[Puffalicious]

What you did it, it looked like you were looking for associations this early when there has been no scum flip. Imagine someone pairing 2 people as scum and if the first player flips town the whole read falls apart.

- A

[Puffalicious]

I did not like imaginality's catch up. The wallpost looked like the kind of post scum would make to fake a read and it looked like he was pairing Cobb's and me as scum buddies. Pairing 2 players as scum I consider it scum trying to setup chain mislim. The part where imaginality said where I was rewarding a town read made no sense to me.

- A

Only would be a chain mislim if Cobb (or you) are scum otherwise it fails as soon as one flips town. So are you saying you're sure Cobb is scum?

This attempt at insinuating that Puff has knowledge they shouldn't feels like a stretch to me...

I couldn't see why they would think I'd be able to push to get one of them mislimmed D2 if the other flipped town D1. And so if Puff were town I assumed they were meaning I'd want to tie them to a Cobb scumflip. But I think I misunderstood what they meant

You are right. If Cobb flipped scum, I thought you wanted to tie us as scum and if Cobb flipped town it did look like faking a read by pairing us both together. If you had a scum read on me and Cobb individually I could have seen it coming from any alignment.

- A

[Puffalicious]

VOTE: imaginality

- A

[Puffalicious]

I've never played with Enchant and thanks for letting us now that he auto hammers at E-1.

- A

[Puffalicious]

I've never played with Enchant and thanks for letting us now that he auto hammers at E-1.

- A

Is that actually true?

Yes

- A

[Puffalicious]

I have been null on Cobb and I am not able to understand what the stats mean.

- A

[Puffalicious]

VOTE: imaginality

- A

Do you agree with what Thom said?

Yes and I have already talked about imaginality yesterday about his catchup looked like a scum catchup.

- A

[Puffalicious]

I still stand by on what I said about imagi. After seeing Cobb's flip, imagi linking us to Cobb looked like he was setting up a miselim after flipping his buddy. His vote on Cobb I could see it as a bus. Cobb was already getting suspected in the thread when imagi replaced in and of course scum would want to look good after their scum buddy gets flipped. When you play or spectate a lot of mafia games, you start to recognize reading games based on what you expect scum to do in certain situations. What imagi did by linking me to Cobb when there has been no scum flip it's always only scum who do this and town doesn't do this.

Enchant's hammer also pinged me because Cobb claimed a pr and it did look like Enchant was scum who knows Cobb is scum. I'm glad mafia killed Enchant because it removed a heavy suspected poe slot for me.

Hypoclaim: I do not have a hard guilty

VOTE: imaginality

[Puffalicious]

Forgot to sign my A initial on my first post I wrote before this post.

- A

[Puffalicious]

Hypoclaim: I roleblocked Elements

If this is a true claim why did you roleblock Elements and not me? On day 1 you had me as scum and you had Elements as town.

- A

[Puffalicious]

I wasn't sure if imagi was true claiming or not. If he was claiming I thought he wanted to clear a slot. In my head I was also thinking a town pr who is not getting wagoned shouldn't claim like that because it exposes them to scum and in past games I have seen players would claim town pr for no reason.

- A

[Puffalicious]

You guys were confusing me earlier and I did not know this continuous hypo claim was an exercise.

- A

[Puffalicious]

When rereading I just realised something I did not notice before.

I fully only thought there were like 2 or 3 of us questioning Puff about post 30, but on a reread it seems like it was over half the playerlist in the entire game that was questioning the slot (Me, Gamma Emerald, Cobblerfone, Elements, Mizuki, Kyouko) either directly on post 30, or on other things after it became clear that the Puff slot had gained a lot of attention. That definitely gives me vibes that Puff could very feasibly just be Town, and there was at least one Mafia jumping on that seemingly easy train of thought/suspicion.
Again this also makes me more tempted to read Elements as Town currently, as it did look like they were trying to avoid this happening, at least to me.

I can agree with Puff being town since it seems like they had a genuine intent to get the game moving in a way that very much seemed agenda-agnostic and I do like this train of thought. I went back through the ISO's of the players you mentioned (except myself) and my brain really only produces Cobb as an answer for Maf.

IDK, I feel like too many people seem townie at the moment, sort of inclined to believe that Maf is in one of the V/LA's (Cele, Shaddowez). I guess Gamma hasn't really pinged me one way or the other but I always find her hard to read.

I do not have a hard guilty

NKA: Enchant is an odd kill here. His only votes were on Kyouko and the hammer on Cobb, and his only real interaction of the day was with Gamma, who I'm not sure he was even scumreading. Two possibilities immediately present themselves to me, one being that he was simply killed for being a low-info, low associative kill. The other is that Enchant quickhammering after Cobb claimed Follower might've made the last scum think he was a PR. The former scenario is what worries me, since it implies a deep-wolf I think.

I think imaginaility has to be town here, I don't think scum replaces in to immediately start swinging at their partner, especially since it was his vote that really restarted the Cobb wagon and imaginality never really offered an alternative wagon other than Puff. That kind of bussing on D1, especially when we had like 3 days left in the deadline at that point, in a 2-scum setup? Doesn't seem likely to me.

Two main suspects for today are Puff and Gamma. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Cobb wagon was all town and the Enchant push at the end of the day from Gamma smells bad to me, and Puff has looked null to scummy all game so far.

I think I'll start here for today:

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

You seem to be inconsistent on these 2 quotes above. On the first quote you agreed with Thomith on my slot being town saying it looked like to you we had genuine intent to get the game moving in a way that seemed agenda-agnostic and in the second quote you said we have looked null to scummy all game so far.

If we have been null to scummy all game then why did you agree with Thomith on my slot being town?

- A

[Puffalicious]

A combination of re-reading the game during night phase, cannibalizing other people's reads, and associatives from the Cobb flip.

What is your response to 385, by the way?

It makes it hard for me to buy what you're saying and your inconsistency was very pingy. Progressions are very important and you did not show progression on your read on us. It would have looked alot more believable if you said something along the lines of, "I had a town read on Puff from last day but now my town read on them is starting to drop." After seeing the Cobbs flip, I put you as town on my reads list I made in the hydra chat and now that I saw your recent post I became paranoid of you.

What does cannibalizing other peoples reads mean?

My response to your other post is on the first paragraph this is what I believe and I became worried that town would never look into the set up of a miselim because scum can get away from doing it. Where I come from town hardly ever does it and they have individual reads instead.

- A

[Puffalicious]

A combination of re-reading the game during night phase, cannibalizing other people's reads, and associatives from the Cobb flip.

What is your response to 385, by the way?

It makes it hard for me to buy what you're saying and your inconsistency was very pingy. Progressions are very important and you did not show progression on your read on us. It would have looked alot more believable if you said something along the lines of, "I had a town read on Puff from last day but now my town read on them is starting to drop." After seeing the Cobbs flip, I put you as town on my reads list I made in the hydra chat and now that I saw your recent post I became paranoid of you.

What does cannibalizing other peoples reads mean?

My response to your other post is on the first paragraph this is what I believe and I became worried that town would never look into the set up of a miselim because scum can get away from doing it. Where I come from town hardly ever does it and they have individual reads instead.

- A

I very rarely have good progressions. I play very much "in the moment", so to speak, which can make me seem inconsistent. Are you also suspect of Kyouko here? She stated a "firm town" read on Elements in 254 and now 384 looks to be Kyouko now scumreading Elements.

When I say "cannibalizing" I'm basically just sheeping other people's reads. As I said I trust Imagi for right now, and you were suspected rather early in the day.

How many games have you played on MS (talking to Adorable specifically)? I can show you a few games where town lost because they were looking for a team rather than an individual scum-read. I've won scumgames off of that.

Kyouko's post on #384 did not make me suspect her. Cobb said like around 2 or 3 times they have a strong town read on Kyouko and after seeing their flip it made me think they tmied Kyouko town.

You accused my slot of cannabilizing and so are you saying I have been sheeping? Where have I been sheeping because it doesn't feel like I have been sheeping. You said you trust imagi and was it just his catch up you liked? Is there anything else you like about imagi?

I've only played alike around 12-15 games here. I don't know if you are misunderstanding me or not. You said you can show me a few games where town lost for looking for a team rather than individual scum read and my read on imagi was mainly his catch up post from day 1 how it looked like he paired me and cobb as a team when there has been no scum flip at that time and after seeing Cobb's flip I still suspected imagi and on day 2 I became worried he was setting up a day 2 miselim. Are you saying I am looking for team rather than individual scum read?

- A

[Puffalicious]

I will have to admit I do tunnel alot. The only way I stop tunneling is if I eventually recognize the player I am tunneling is town.

- A

[Puffalicious]

A combination of re-reading the game during night phase, cannibalizing other people's reads, and associatives from the Cobb flip.

What is your response to 385, by the way?

It makes it hard for me to buy what you're saying and your inconsistency was very pingy. Progressions are very important and you did not show progression on your read on us. It would have looked alot more believable if you said something along the lines of, "I had a town read on Puff from last day but now my town read on them is starting to drop." After seeing the Cobbs flip, I put you as town on my reads list I made in the hydra chat and now that I saw your recent post I became paranoid of you.

What does cannibalizing other peoples reads mean?

My response to your other post is on the first paragraph this is what I believe and I became worried that town would never look into the set up of a miselim because scum can get away from doing it. Where I come from town hardly ever does it and they have individual reads instead.

- A

I very rarely have good progressions. I play very much "in the moment", so to speak, which can make me seem inconsistent. Are you also suspect of Kyouko here? She stated a "firm town" read on Elements in 254 and now 384 looks to be Kyouko now scumreading Elements.

When I say "cannibalizing" I'm basically just sheeping other people's reads. As I said I trust Imagi for right now, and you were suspected rather early in the day.

How many games have you played on MS (talking to Adorable specifically)? I can show you a few games where town lost because they were looking for a team rather than an individual scum-read. I've won scumgames off of that.

Kyouko's post on #384 did not make me suspect her. Cobb said like around 2 or 3 times they have a strong town read on Kyouko and after seeing their flip it made me think they tmied Kyouko town.

You accused my slot of cannabilizing and so are you saying I have been sheeping? Where have I been sheeping because it doesn't feel like I have been sheeping. You said you trust imagi and was it just his catch up you liked? Is there anything else you like about imagi?

I've only played alike around 12-15 games here. I don't know if you are misunderstanding me or not. You said you can show me a few games where town lost for looking for a team rather than individual scum read and my read on imagi was mainly his catch up post from day 1 how it looked like he paired me and cobb as a team when there has been no scum flip at that time and after seeing Cobb's flip I still suspected imagi and on day 2 I became worried he was setting up a day 2 miselim. Are you saying I am looking for team rather than individual scum read?

- A

I think we're both misunderstanding each other, I'm saying

I

was the one sheeping other people's reads, not that you were, and that's whats led me to my suspicion on you. I trust Imagi for the reasons I said in 385, I don't think the associatives or the theoretical scum strategy here are realistic.

I was asking if you suspected Kyouko because your reasons for suspecting me also feel like they should apply to her flipping from townreading Elements to now scumreading Elements on D2.

I'm saying that I Imagi pairing you and Cobb with no flip is NAI, since Town is just as likely to try to make associative reads before 1 party has even flipped. That's why I keep bringing up games where Town has lost looking for teams rather than individual scum.

You said I was cannibalizing reads and when I asked you what does that mean you said sheeping. I am still not able to understand what this means and when you said you suspected me for cannibalizing reads is it because I am not sheeping?

Kyouko's suspicion on Elements is not the same as your suspicion on me. You showed an inconsistency on your read on me and when you said on day 1 you agreed with Thomith on my slot being town and today you said my slot has been null scummy all game and if my slot has been null scummy all game then your town read on my slot day 1 should have never existed. The way how Kyouko phrased her suspicion on Elements was different from how you phrased your suspicion on my slot.

We have different views here because you said you imagi pairing me and Cobb is nai for you and for me I see it as scum indicative. I see no reason for town to pair 2 players as a scum team when there has been no scum flip. It looked manipulative to me and I do see scum doing this more. If imagi never paired me up with Cobb then my read on him would have been null.

- A

[Puffalicious]

I think I understand now and I'm assuming you suspect Gamma and me more because all the other players you are town reading.

- A

[Puffalicious]

With how much I've played with Enchant, do you not think I'd realize pushing Enchant would drive him towards voting Cobb? Given that, why would I push there when my alleged scumbuddy was on the hook?

We were both off the wagon and your vote did look a bit like you were uninformed who did not know Cobb is mafia and I can relate to this. That's the only thing I could maybe see a world where you are town. All of yours posts have been nai and I'm null on you. Do you have updated reads?

- A

[Puffalicious]

Gamma not having updated reads is concerning because it makes it looks like a scum play that doesn't want to solve.

- A

[Puffalicious]

Jailkept Kyouko

- A

[Puffalicious]

From what I am understanding, the town reads on invisi are because he started the wagon on Cobb when the votes on them left and players doubt scum would do this to a scum buddy. Invisi vote on Cobb is not something you should town clear him for because scum can also bus.

In a completed scum game of mine a scum buddy of mine was in the same position as Cobb and he told me to bus him to make myself look good after his flip. I can imagine the same thing could have happened in this game just like what happened in a completed scum game of mine.

This is why mizukis town read on invisi is weak. Invisis read on my slot doesn't look genuine because he is suspecting me over stuff that are nai and I haven't seen him trying to engage with my slot.

- A

[Puffalicious]

Gamma Enchant Elements Thomith

Everyone else is clear

I think we go

Gamma > Thomith > Ehcnant/Elements

[Puffalicious]

Gamma never voted Cobbler.

Thomith voted Cobbler first thing but was not voting EoD. (distancing)

Elements and Enchant were the last to jump on Cobbler. May have just seen the writing on the wall and hammered their partner.


This is what I think.

[Puffalicious]

Gamma Enchant Elements Thomith

Everyone else is clear

I think we go

Gamma > Thomith > Ehcnant/Elements

Enchant is dead, and how is everyone else clear?

Everyone else (except my slot lol) voted Cobbler at one point or another. Gamma didn't vote. You did vote but then unvoted. Elements was last to jump on among alive.

[Puffalicious]

gob and I disagree on our reads on Thomith. I am town reading Thomith and gob is not.

- A

[Puffalicious]

Seems a lot of us agree on Gamma.

[Puffalicious]

Cobb was at E-3
Mizuki voted post 303
Elements "tempted to E-1" 328
Mizuki posted, kyouko told Elements to put Cobb E-1
Elements voted Cobb 343
Mizuki called for Cobb to claim 353
Cobb claimed 354
Enchant hammered 355

Kyouko didn't post while Cobb was at E-1, but did call for the E-1 vote and if scum were planning to fakeclaim Follower it's definitely a foreseeable possibility that the fakeclaim would be followed by the real PR hammering. Plus in any case the discussion of Enchant's propensity to quickhammer had happened by then.

So I don’t think anyone on the wagon was caught by surprise and unable to hop off. Especially given there was half a day between 353 and 354.

So I'm back to thinking remaining scum is more likely in {Puff, Gamma} with a side chance of Thomith.

Of note Puff and Thomith were trying to get a counterwagon on me going, and then Gamma voted Enchant. I think Gamma as scum there, deciding not to bus Cobb, would be much likelier to jump onto my wagon which was at E-2 at that point. Voting Enchant seems too neutral in that position?

So:

UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald

I think I'm back to Puff.

VOTE: Puffalicious

Why do you think 2 scum would be more likely vote you? Cobb was being suspected the most and it would be more likely the second scum would vote elsewhere and not sheep each other while the other is also getting suspected.

- A

[Puffalicious]

On day 1 it looked like Cobb was more likely going to go over and I don't understand how you thought you had a likely chance on going over on day 1 because Kyouko and Mizuki both said they liked your catch up. I remember Thomith said something about you being wary of you and he said he was scum reading Cobb more.

- A

[Puffalicious]

I guessed thomith was a town invest who checked my slot and got a town clear on us. I didn't want to say it in the thread and I only said in the hydra chat I thought he was a town invest who cleared us and turns out I was right.


- A