Open 884: Another Newbie Game | Game Over!

[Gamma Emerald]

Hello friends and acquaintances!
Let’s have some fun, eh?
VOTE: Dunnstral

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah that threw me when I learned it, what also threw me was learning that miller was town-only in normal games

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: purplemango
From that reaction, I feel like the initial question was a throwaway to enter the game with

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: purplemango
From that reaction, I feel like the initial question was a throwaway to enter the game with

? why is it not just being curious

it's kinda just a vibe

[Gamma Emerald]

what do you think of the people who voted you for that post?

I'm more surprised that Dunn has chosen to not vote for me despite feeling that my read is rushed there.

The votes from y'all don't necessarily ping me because the reasons you suspect me align with reasons other town players have found my playstyle suspicious in other games on the site. I'm a very performative player so I'm basically the walking definition of LAMIST.

I'm not sure if I should be voting for you. I said your read was rushed but that doesn't mean you are mafia. I wouldn't be confident enough to put you to e-1 just for kicks anyways.

Oooo I forgot Kitty had his vote on me, that makes a bit more sense.

I kinda like this line of questioning by Oopsie

[Gamma Emerald]

@KittyTacky

you seem to be checked out despite trying to poke the game earlier, what’s up?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm curious why Dann believes I'm scum here

[Gamma Emerald]

I think you're reading a bit much into 65/69
Of course my reads are gonna be shallow, there's very little to go on, and even when there is I tend to have a handful of reads that are shallow still
and I wasn't just pointing out an inconsistency, I was asking about it. There's a difference.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Infinity what's your opinion on oopsie atp?

[Gamma Emerald]

@KittyTacky

you seem to be checked out despite trying to poke the game earlier, what’s up?

I'm very sick, and also a printer I ordered arrived and I was setting it up. I have a life.

It wasn’t just your posting frequency that gave me that impression :/

[Gamma Emerald]

I think you're reading a bit much into 65/69

Can you elaborate what you meant with the "this line of questioning" in #65? I also had a reaction to this comment earlier, but I wasn't sure if I'm being biased because I had just got a "confirmation" (not literally a confirmation, but my read had just become stronger) on my read on Daisy.

I felt like Oopsie’s analysis of how players interacted with them was nuanced
That’s probably the best I can put it rn

[Gamma Emerald]

@Infinity what's your opinion on oopsie atp?

i think she's >rand scum, nothing she's really done has made me want to townread her, and her thoughts have felt a bit surface level still though it's early. why do you ask?

Both to get a better feel for you and to get a second opinion
Btw I don’t think “hasn’t done anything to get a townread” particularly translates to >Rand scum unless you have townreads on a solid chunk of the playerlist?

[Gamma Emerald]

it makes sense
i mostly try to read what other people write, don't really know how to continue beyond

okay ngl I did not process this when I read it the first time
UNVOTE:

[Gamma Emerald]

because my vote was solely based on that one idea and that post changed how I saw it

[Gamma Emerald]

I find Mr. K to be a player who doesn't seem to put much deep thought into reads from a quick skim, but he seems genuine enough to be town

[Gamma Emerald]

nothing substantial
all I have right now is some mild concerns, which I could act on if they translate into actual scumpings

[Gamma Emerald]

Mainly it’s that I’m not putting a lot of mental energy into this game rn, recent-ish games on other sites have kinda given me the inclination to not do a whole lot of rocking the boat early
I think my concerns generally revolve around you and Dunnstral

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually, add Kitty to the concern list

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s a part of it but not all of it

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s a part of it but not all of it

What is the rest of it?

I feel like you aren’t really engaging as much of the game as you should, and you having your vote on me for basically the whole time is perhaps a symptom of that
Wrt Dann I think his solving feels inorganic, I could read from a mile away that he was going to put his vote back onto me, and I get a gut sense that his reasoning he put out is an afterthought based on the fact I was able to predict that move

Honestly the Dann read might be worth exploring deeper, gimme a bit

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay a) the VC needs to be fixed in that case and b) just because you aren’t voting me now doesn’t change what I said

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: gamma

Oopsie minorly towny for a not very self-conscious entrance

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

You voted me twice, with a vote for Kitty in the middle?

[Gamma Emerald]

ok scum team almost solved just need purplemango to come in and townspew himself or not

I do seriously scum read Gamma Emerald because it doesn't seem like he actually cares about sorting purplemango's alignment, he parked a vote there and even though purplemango has posted since there's not really any further attempt to engage with him. it feels like gamma parked a vote there because it seemed like a target no one would question a vote on.

i think 65 is weirdly shallow for Gamma and I think it's rather common habit for scum to throw out a weak town read on big early wagons on town

69 is a post I myself make as scum a lot where I point out objective inconsistencies even though they don't really have a bearing on alignment. It just looks good and is easy to do.

I'll admit most of this stuff is on the weaker side but so far gamma has given me the biggest impression of trying to look town without actually being towny

So here’s my deal: I got the vibe Dann was going to go after me from post 56, which came before the two specific posts Dann cited later on when explaining his read on me. The “I want to see what purplemango does” part probably was a tip-off, and it feels a bit forced. I also think post 79 just feels off.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why are we voting Cook here?

[Gamma Emerald]

No, I just don’t see what’s worth voting for in Cook’s posting directly

[Gamma Emerald]

I think promises to catch up with no follow through are like marginally more likely to cone from scum

I don’t love the naked unvote

Idk I’m not scum reading any of the active posters so this seems better

I think the first point holds water
VOTE: Cook
@Dunnstral I basically picked up a cue that may or may not have been there. I think there is a route of logic that makes Dann scum but it feels improbable. It kinda presumes Dann as scum not genuinely sorting purplemango, as if he was genuinely sorting him, I don’t see why Dann would have me slotted as scum already, I would guess that sorting would have the intent to sort me by extension.

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s E-1 btw

[Gamma Emerald]

Keep in mind we have 32 hours left

[Gamma Emerald]

Cook going to E-1 basically just for lurking makes me uncomfortable

I think promises to catch up with no follow through are like marginally more likely to cone from scum

I don’t love the naked unvote

Idk I’m not scum reading any of the active posters so this seems better

I think the first point holds water
VOTE: Cook
@Dunnstral I basically picked up a cue that may or may not have been there. I think there is a route of logic that makes Dann scum but it feels improbable.

It kinda presumes Dann as scum not genuinely sorting purplemango, as if he was genuinely sorting him, I don’t see why Dann would have me slotted as scum already,

I would guess that sorting would have the intent to sort me by extension.

The bolded does not make sense to me. What is the correlation?

I thought Dann had pre-sorted me as scum, but if everything he's saying is to be taken at face value, that feels incongruous with wanting the sort purplemango first, unless the purplemango read thing wasn't tied to his read on me
basically, I think I read too far into things and don't distrust Dann like I did earlier

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Mr. K

I’ve decided 179 feels like a scum post

yeah I'm not 100% on Mr. K being scum but I also don't see why people TR him

[Gamma Emerald]

I really don’t know how to explain this so that you’ll get it

[Gamma Emerald]

Are you saying that Dannflor already decided that you were mafia?

Kinda? The caveat is that as scum it wouldn’t be he was reading that way, instead that he decided to “read” me that way.

[Gamma Emerald]

Looking at when the deadline is aim probably going to be asleep at that point

[Gamma Emerald]

Why is it scum guilt specifically, since you seem to indicate that’s how you interpret it?

[Gamma Emerald]

don't think town feels any guilt about hammering a slot at deadline

I think it would be the inverse? I can attest the being flipped at deadline essentially just for knowledge sucks so being the one to hammer would probably feel bad as town.

[Gamma Emerald]

theoretically this checks out for how gamma would play as town but it doesn't feel the same for whatever reason

Could you dive into what your thought process behind this was a bit more?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Infinity324
I think I am getting a similar vibe from them to what I saw in this game, and I am actually acting on it this time since there’s no use in keeping a smokescreen

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

I have never had someone say me and infinity okay similar before but I don’t think it’s a wrong statement, it’s just new

[Gamma Emerald]

I have never had someone say me and infinity play similar before but I don’t think it’s a wrong statement, it’s just new

EBWOP

[Gamma Emerald]

I really feel like y’all are barking up the wrong tree by going down this Kitty!scum thought process

[Gamma Emerald]

ahh yeah gamma's read on you would be tough to fake

pedit who is scum (if i'm town)

like ok say instead of kitty just being scum you have {gamma, dunn, kitty, purple} as my poe that makes more sense and maybe remove you

Is this @ me or Dann or both?

[Gamma Emerald]

I haven’t really vibed with Mr. K much at all, so I would say him and either purple or Dunn
I feel like after my initial issues were hashed out with Dann I have felt good about him. And I trust Kitty here.

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

Yo, this game is dead as fuck

[Gamma Emerald]

can you expand on what about gamma's behavior seems scummy?

and also what about infinity looks town to you?

I didn't see the votes lmao
ok i re-read things that were written, mainly I based my suspicion on the vote towards me and a few other things, I didn't really pay attention to the conversation that was with you, so I guess that removes the suspicion from her a bit

I don't think as scum it works for me that they kill oppsiedaisy, Considering they voted for her and were among the most active to kill her in the first place.

Mainly based on this
Why do you think they're scum?

What do you mean by the bolded here?

infinity killing who they actively tried to kill by voting (at least at one point) doesn't make sense to me, especially since she voted for them.
But there's also a chance that it wasn't a consideration at all in choosing who would die, or that it was intentional, in which case it's not really relevant

Do you think Oopsie was a viable vote-out?

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like there has to be a scum pushing Kitty here

[Gamma Emerald]

In a word, yes

[Gamma Emerald]

Vibes

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s the best I can do right now unfortunately

[Gamma Emerald]

Pushing is not exclusive to voting

[Gamma Emerald]

it would be really helpful if purple mango came in and just gave a couple thoughts on each player

I am basing the reads (?) on things that are not really significant and just made sense to me

I think gamma scum based on it's behavior on the first day, and her suspicions (although they do also make sense given the things said)
I don't have an opinion on you or kittytacky that is relevant right now, I have no problem killing him, I'd rather not you
But it's still makes sense to me that in the end you are scum
infinity looks like town to me, not sure about a specific reason and can be changed
That leaves mostly dunn/mr k which I don't really know about either, but mr k acts like town


Please tell me if I forgot someone who plays

Ngl I think these reads suck ass, feels like there’s too many doors left open for scumreads on players later

[Gamma Emerald]

do you have reasons to suspect Gamma independently, Mr. K?

Yes, mainly the same suspicion I had in D1. I generally don't really agree with her reads in addition to which I also don't see much support for them. She's also seemingly active but a lot of that activity seems sort of superficial.

#36
#46

Here I don't get the same vibe at all myself.

#65

Here I didn't like the line of questioning by Oopsie. We later do find out not only that she is town but she also explains her thought process a bit more, but I still don't think the logic behind her thoughts was very strong. Probably more importantly, this is one of the examples where I feel Gamma could be "hiding in plain sight", just comment something that makes it seem like she's kind of scum-hunting, but not really doing anything useful. Like, this comment she could easily explain away to literally any direction if she needs to. I asked about it later and in #105 she explained it a bit further, but to me the explanation felt like a non-explanation as well, and I again didn't agree with what she was saying either

Other examples of these posts that make her seem active:

#69
#144
#181, #183, #187
While I agreed with the end result here, I didn't really like the she got to her conclusion. It felt like she acted as if she needed convincing but in the end didn't really need much convincing so she got to make three seemingly townish posts for doing something she would have done anyway.
#215

But despite the long list of posts that I'm citing, I can't say that my case is particularly strong. I have the same doubts I had on D1, most of this could be explained by us simply thinking differently. She feels one thing but can't put a pin on why (it's just a vibe) and I disagree with it and also don't share that vibe. Similarly part of my suspicions towards her are based on me "having a vibe" as well.

I think I started pointing fingers now for a couple of reasons: upon a re-read the interaction with Infinity jumped out a bit more while earlier I had kind of ignored it (possibly cause I thought Infinity was town) and really a process of elimination:

If Dann's town, Purplemango's town and I'm town who do we have left?

Dunnstral, Gamma, Infinity, Kitty

Out of the four I think Dunnstral feels more town than the others so we're down to the three. My main issue with Kitty is the slightly odd comment on the hammer and him being somewhat inactive on D1. Does that make him town? Not necessarily, but it does make an even weaker case than my suspicions towards Gamma and Infinity. Especially after the remaining two happen to be the same whose interaction I had just found somewhat indicative of a potential scum pair. This pairing-theory is a thing I am trying to keep in the background, but it's now of course difficult to completely unsee it.

I don’t like these either
I think Mr. K in general is not a strong solver, he openly admitted to eating the confirmation-bias apple on Day 1.

[Gamma Emerald]

You are saying I’m saying scum is within Infinity and Dannflor
My response is refuting that by explaining how your scope is too narrow

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

I think gamma scum based on it's behavior on the first day, and her suspicions (although they do also make sense given the things said)

Could you dive into your thought process here?

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually I don’t think I need that answered
VOTE: Purplemango
I just combed his ISO, I think his tone towards Oopsie feels like scum who wants to take out Oopsie but cannot find an angle for a vote. That resulted in zir killing her off, which I think is why ze’s going so hard on the “infinity wouldn’t kill Oopsie angle”, there’s inside knowledge. Whether that’s actually spewing infinity town I’m not fully decided, but I lean towards it being that way.

[Gamma Emerald]

Maybe, it could also be a play for townie brownie points

[Gamma Emerald]

Not particularly, but:

I don't have an opinion on [Dann] or kittytacky that is relevant right now, I have no problem killing him, I'd rather not [Dann]

This is just bothers the shit out of me. What the fuck is the distinction that makes Kitty okay to let die but Dann not? This feels like the type of shit I would pull as scum, making arbitrary distinctions in my approach to players to warp the solving landscape.
Also: I think that is the least constructive response you could have posted to my push. It looks like you are trying to nitpick away my position. IF YOU ARE TOWN,

STOP

.

[Gamma Emerald]

So you’re saying you were less interested in voting Dann because he was actually involved?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay that tracks
UNVOTE:
Not convinced your town but I don’t know what to really make of your self-awareness here. I know from my own self that it’s possible to have your brand of self-awareness as town but I think unless you have certain personality quirks, it probably takes training to do.

[Gamma Emerald]

Not particularly, but:

I don't have an opinion on [Dann] or kittytacky that is relevant right now, I have no problem killing him, I'd rather not [Dann]

This is just bothers the shit out of me. What the fuck is the distinction that makes Kitty okay to let die but Dann not? This feels like the type of shit I would pull as scum, making arbitrary distinctions in my approach to players to warp the solving landscape.
Also: I think that is the least constructive response you could have posted to my push. It looks like you are trying to nitpick away my position. IF YOU ARE TOWN,

STOP

.

The connection between your original broad accusation that mafia were pushing KittyTacky, and pointing to Purplemango seems to be pretty weak. You can call it nitpicking if you want, your explanation here makes sense but it is not the position you previously had, all you had originally said was that mafia were pushing KittyTacky.

I don’t vibe with Dunn’s push on Gamma

I think it’s reasonable to see people pushing someone you know is a conftown and often LHF and conclude that scum is likely to be pushing there even if you have no other evidence

But as I pointed out above, Purplemango was not pushing KittyTacky. They were merely not townreading them.

Alright. This response seems legit. I feel like scum!you would have doubled down in some way, instead this feels like genuinely trying to put together puzzle pieces

[Gamma Emerald]

I was looking for purple to answer that

[Gamma Emerald]

Can you tell me a bit about yourself personally? That’s probably to most direct way I can state my question here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Interesting, how do people normally play in that other place?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: infinity 324
I’m torn on where to vote so I’ll follow the FN

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:

[Gamma Emerald]

My guts says infinity’s claim looks so rushed that it is probably not the true claim
Especially given the amount of pressure that’s been on them

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m going to give kitty a chance to give closing thoughts before dropping the hammer

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not gonna be up for much longer so I will do it now
VOTE: Infinity 324

[Gamma Emerald]

So I'm clear. And Gamma is clear. Scum in Dunn, Dann, Purple. I don't think it's Dunn.

I agree with it likely not being Dunn

[Gamma Emerald]

just ISOed Infinity and it's not a done deal but I think the approach they had seems to suggest purple is the most likely partner
seemed like they were tiptoeing around pushing me/dunn/dann

[Gamma Emerald]

GGs!