Open 885: Backup6 [Game Over]
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Black she/herTwilight Princessshe/her
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Black she/herTwilight Princessshe/her
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whoa the timing on this O_O
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i definitely like yeeting and fading people
lim is cool but i went to school with a guy named Lim so i unintentionally think about him a lot haha-
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Aureal stop posting at the same time as me-
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you should know by now you don't need to try. I exist to be in your pocket. kinda like a baby kangaroo. it's my happy placeIn post 21, Aureal wrote: No! How else am I supposed to pocket you!
Generic trying to read and solve already is probably a good sign?-
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there's not really much to explain. i thought Generic's read felt naturalIn post 38, T3 wrote:
Reasoning for my read: I thought the way that Black said this was weird. Like, why not explain why Generic's solving could be a good or bad sign?In post 28, Black wrote: Generic trying to read and solve already is probably a good sign?-
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I don't mind T3's vote on me. I like that he admitted he was grasping at straws to start discussion
CCG's vote feels bad though. Putting me at e-2 by piggybacking off of someone grasping at straws and doubling down on their point feels off-
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This was one of my favorite Mafia moments in recent memoryIn post 48, iamveryhappy wrote: The dayvig was a reference to a random newbie game I tuhink 2123-
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You may be right hereIn post 51, Aureal wrote: CCGeek, how can you find T3's aggression possibly 'faux' but also agree with the point he made?
Oh right because you're scum.
VOTE: CCGeek-
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he's a Snivy! who wouldn't want to see a snake with feet at the zoo?-
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In post 60, CCGeek wrote: Wait, the black wagon had 2 votes on it at the time?
What difference does it make? Are you implying you wouldn't have voted for me had you known this?In post 61, CCGeek wrote: OH Clems voted for black, I somehow missed that-
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meh. I think your entrance to the game is the scummiest out of everyone so far. If voting for you after you voted for me is OMGUS then so be itIn post 64, CCGeek wrote: Also, black, what even is this OMGUS lol.
i don't feel like i was being defensive at all tbh. Ironically I do mind getting wagoned but that's always been a thing with meIn post 65, CCGeek wrote: Why are you so defensive? Surely you don't mind getting wagoned early D1, do you?-
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fair enoughIn post 69, CCGeek wrote:
No difference, I simply had missed it and was surprised when you said I put you to E-2.In post 63, Black wrote:In post 60, CCGeek wrote: Wait, the black wagon had 2 votes on it at the time?
What difference does it make? Are you implying you wouldn't have voted for me had you known this?In post 61, CCGeek wrote: OH Clems voted for black, I somehow missed that-
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I'm not sure what you are getting at with this question? I'd say 3 out of 8 possible votes qualifies as a wagonIn post 72, CCGeek wrote: But I do have a question for you. In a 9p game, what do you think constitutes as a wagon?-
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Black she/herTwilight Princessshe/her
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Estimated completed games: ~30
Have you had victories in a mafia team?: Yes
Favourite alignment: Mafia, but I would probably like 3rd party more if I could ever roll it. I'm a loner haha-
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T3's vote felt natural and I like the reasoning behind it (wanting to start discussion)In post 78, CCGeek wrote:
Was an attempt to fish for the statement you made about not minding T3's vote.In post 75, Black wrote:
I'm not sure what you are getting at with this question? I'd say 3 out of 8 possible votes qualifies as a wagonIn post 72, CCGeek wrote: But I do have a question for you. In a 9p game, what do you think constitutes as a wagon?
Your vote feels forced and there doesn't seem to be any reasoning behind it other than you think I might be scum based on a weak tone read-
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wait are you trying to say your vote on me was random now?-
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RVS votes are random votes you make for fun. A la my vote on "Clem" as you call him. Your vote had an actual reason behind it so it wasn't really random. One could argue your post/vote was the first attempt to pull us out of RVS even-
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what lolIn post 86, iamveryhappy wrote: Fav role: TFPTSLBOOIA-
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ok sure, i agree with this. the weird part to me is you saying your vote is "good enough" for RVS standards. your vote wasn't an attempt to join in on the RVS fun. you were trying to move the game forwardIn post 91, CCGeek wrote:
To my understanding, RVS doesn't necessarily mean every vote is completely random? I thought it was meant to signify early D1, before any significant content was generated.In post 85, Black wrote: wait are you trying to say your vote on me was random now?-
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really? I'm just commenting on the one thing that has happened this game lol. We're having a conversation. I don't think I'm in a tunnel yetIn post 95, CCGeek wrote: This feels like you're... tunneling?
anyway I'm fine with where my vote is for now-
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this kinda feels like a perspective slip? in one breath you vote for me, and in the next you talk to me like you think i'm townIn post 98, Dannflor wrote: I think CCGeek's push on you is too inconsistent to be scum, Black
also i'm not really sure i understand the point you're trying to make here. can you elaborate?-
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I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing 98 comes from someone that thinks I'm probably scum. You conveniently hopped on the wagon built by others and then spoke to me as if you were trying to convince me that CCG is town. If I'm your #1 suspect then it doesn't make sense for you to address me this way. I don't like this at allIn post 105, Dannflor wrote: I don't think you are town, but I am not prideful enough to think my read on you is 100% on page 4
You're either scum with CCG or CCG is town and you're playing us both
VOTE: Dannflor-
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Noted
Tbf youarepretty surreal <3-
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This is built on the assumption that I'm a confident town player. I'm not. I think my town game is fairly weak actually, especially early in a game. I get better as the games goes on and people start to flip. On the contrary I'm much more confident as scum. Red PMs don't weigh on my conscience whatsoeverIn post 124, Dannflor wrote: Some people had a bad reaction to this, for good reason. It's a read that apologizes for itself. When people roll mafia they can often enter a game with a bit of a sense of subconscious guilt. The red role PM weighs on their conscience. It might seem ridiculous to read this much into a "probably" and a "?," but combined with the fact that Black seems like a fairly confident player, I think it betrays someone who is (whether consciously or subconsciously) a little worried that throwing out a read like that is going to be viewed negatively by the other players in the game.
I disagree with this premise entirely. I think it's standard practice for townies to apply pressure where they think it'll be beneficial. I don't even think Aureal's scumread is all that substantial tbh, but I saw an area where I could build on existing pressure and went for itIn post 124, Dannflor wrote: I think this progression too shows Black is feeling a little self-conscious to be the first one to put a read out there. If Black scum read's CCG's vote on her, why doesn't she vote him in 54? Instead, she waits until she's read and acknowledged Aureal's 51 that shades CCGeek to jump on the wagon. I think if Black had a pure and innocent heart and actually felt bad about CCG's vote she'd put a vote there without any hesitation.
This feels like a stretch just to try and twist my words to make me look worse. It wasn't CCG putting me at e-2 that I had an issue with, it was the timing and manner in which he did it. I thought I made that pretty clear in 54In post 124, Dannflor wrote: I also think specifically calling out "putting me at e-2" is slightly scum indicative. It is consistently more likely for town players to not pay attention to where the votes are at when they throw down a vote. Scum players have to be very careful about how they are perceived and how the timing of votes might look later down the line. And while I don't think it is necessarily scum indicative for Black to *be aware* of how many votes she has accumulated, I do think it is scum indicative that she used that as a point against CCGeek, as if she found something objectively scummy with which to discredit his push with.
Huh? You're looking at this backwards. I think it does make a difference. I asked CCG that question because if he did admit that he wouldn't have voted for me if if he knew it would put me at e-2, I would have considered that incredibly scummyDannflor wrote:Black even then later acts like it doesn't make a difference whether CCGeek meant to put her at E-2 or not, despite using the fact that CCGeek had put her to E-2 as a point of suspicion against CCGeek in post 54.
How do you determine the alignments of people on your wagon? I do it by engaging with them, which is what I've done here and will continue to do. Of course some of that will involve discrediting you because you're wrong about meDannflor wrote:Anyway, I imagine Black is feeling like she's under a lot of pressure for not a lot of reason pretty early in this game. But, I think if she was town, she'd more interested in trying to determine the alignments of the people on her wagon. Instead, she seems more interested in discrediting all the votes on her. I think this is evident in her pushes on both CCGeek and myself.
A town player could do this, absolutely. I never implied they couldn'tDannflor wrote:What does this actually mean about my alignment? What makes it convenient that I joined a pre-existing wagon? Why would a town player not do this?
At the time I wasn't sure which world was more likely. I've thought about it more sinse then and I don't really see the benefit in scum!you sticking up for scum!CCG this early. I think it's more likely that only one of you is scumDannflor wrote:I think "You're either scum with CCG or CCG is town and you're playing us both" doesn't make sense as a real town thought. I think at this point town!Black would have an idea in her head of which is more likely. She'd be constructing a world that makes my behavior and CCGeek's behavior make sense.
It was you voting for me and then talking to me like I'm town that made me push you. That sequence felt incredibly informed to meDannflor wrote:I don't think Black actually believes that because I challenged her read on CCG, that means that I made a perspective slip that makes me scum. I think she feels like she has to push me in this way and if she were town I think there would be more of an attempt to see where I'm coming from.
That's because there's not a lot to work with here. You really expect me to build a coherent case on page 5 when you've posted 3 times? You're not lockscum by any means. I'm not going to campaign to fade you based on one comment where I felt like you have an informed perspectiveDannflor wrote:There's not even an attempt really to build a coherent case against me.-
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hey me too! Look at usIn post 136, Aureal wrote: and not just because I have a 100% win rate as Mafia-
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I don't think anyone should be locktowning me tbh. I'm a dangerous scum player. Granted I haven't rolled scum since my first 3 newbie games on the site but that probably just means I'm overdue and you should all fade me ASAP-
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Because there's absolutely no reason to locktown me and I'm wary that it could be a pocketing attempt. Not really so much in Aureal's case since she's done this before as town, but I'm not sure why Generic is going along with itIn post 148, Dannflor wrote:
what is the purpose of making this post?In post 146, Black wrote: I don't think anyone should be locktowning me tbh. I'm a dangerous scum player. Granted I haven't rolled scum since my first 3 newbie games on the site but that probably just means I'm overdue and you should all fade me ASAP-
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I don't think every scum player would try to pocket in this way but I feel like he might. And I brought it up because I wanted to get Generic's reaction specifically. I'm still trying to parse his reaction tbh. He joked at first, but then once you asked me my motive, he switched gears and basically decided I'm lockscum nowIn post 151, Dannflor wrote: do/did you suspect Generic because of that?
if you think scum would do that to pocket you I'm not sure why you wouldn't wait to see who would go along with it and who wouldn't-
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I don't get it?In post 158, T3 wrote:
Just when I think that Black can't get scummierIn post 100, Black wrote:
this kinda feels like a perspective slip? in one breath you vote for me, and in the next you talk to me like you think i'm townIn post 98, Dannflor wrote: I think CCGeek's push on you is too inconsistent to be scum, Black-
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There's definitely one scum pushing me rn. Maybe two but that seems overly risky for little payoff, so probably just one. After the Panthers game I'll see if I can look back through and figure out who it most likely is-
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well the game sucked last night and now I'm hungover on a tuesday. i'll respond to some stuff later-
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i couldn't help but see this chart when i clicked on the page and i love it. i highly doubt Aureal is suggesting i can NEVER be caught for the wrong reasons. that's kinda ridiculous of you to assume. but yeah she's spot on...this is how my mafia career has gone on this site XDIn post 183, Generic wrote:
Apparently Aurreal, besides white knighting black to a ridiculous level that if mafia would be so amateur it’s unreal so I’m going to accept the wifom here that they can’t both be mafia, believes black can never be caught for the wrong reasons and is always town when suspected for a reason she finds weak.In post 182, Aureal wrote:In post 175, Dannflor wrote: aureal what do you think i should look for specifically in black's town game that is different from her scum game
Is that seriously what you are suggesting?-
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ok i was able to clear my head and i read through the thread again
i still believe that there has to be at least one scum pushing me
rereading makes me think dannflor is the towniest out of those on my wagon. his push on me has felt the most organic. originally i had issues with 124 because it felt like an over-the-top response to me voting for him. after isoing him and cross examining with his other posts, i feel dannflor is being genuine in his suspicions here. while i don't completely agree with some of the points made in this post, it still feels more natural than any of the pushes so far
regarding 164, i think some of the reasons put forth to fade me have been bad or a stretch. typically when 2-3 people latch onto a wagon built on weak reasoning, one of them is scum more often than not. while he's right that it could possibly be a couple of lurkers, i just don't think that's the case here. and while 98 still feels like it could be a perspective slip, i'm fine with not pushing here today
dunn's 180 reads a little weird to me. in the first half he explains why some of dannflor's points are null, in the middle he agrees with a couple of dannflor's other points, and then at the end he decides there's enough here to vote me. i don't understand the point of this if dunn is scum. i think it would make more sense for him to either try to pocket me by defending me, or ignoring all those dannflor points he disagreed with and subtly try to hop on the wagon. the fact that he did both makes me think he's probably town
of the two left, i think the most likely scum is either CCG or Generic. i still don't like CCG's vote and responses to me yesterday even after reading them again. it feels like he wanted to jump on my wagon and then coast. while i wouldn't mind fading either today, i noticed something this read through
Generic had a complete shift in 149. it felt alarming, especially considering that it's based on his assumption that i'm trying to use reverse psychology. i noticed this too:In post 149, Generic wrote: This is a tactic known as reverse psychology.I know this well. I do this regularly.
Someone townreads or leans you, you undermine it. You look better because why would a Wolf argue against being town read?
here Generic essentially does the exact thing he accused me of doing. in my mind, this implies that either Generic is scum, or he undermines townreads as town. if it is the latter, then why would he be fully convinced i'm scum after i tried to argue against a townlock? it doesn't feel like a natural thought process. Generic's jump onto me has felt the least organic out of everyone, and to top it off he isn't even voting for me despite this:In post 33, Generic wrote: Nope, I’m afraid to burst the bubble but that was me attempting sarcasm… through text… like a moron.
Don’t town clear me off the lamest of attempts at humour please.
this feels like an unnecessary extreme if Generic is town here. but the lack of voting me makes me feel like Generic is afraid to get his hands dirty. it feels like he wants dann/dunn/ccg to do all the dirty work for him while he stands on the sidelines pushing the wagon forwardIn post 149, Generic wrote: Just so everyone knows, I refuse to townread black for the rest of the game. Short of a mod clear or a cop check I will be assuming she is mafia. And is currently where my vote will be going.
i also don't like his shift on Aureal. in 157 he has her as one of two townies, and then in 176 he calls her "wolfy" and advocates to fade her. this drastic shift feels off, like Generic can't keep track of his own fake reads in the span of a few posts
VOTE: Generic
this is what i think we should push rn-
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i'm having a hard time getting a solid read on Aureal. she's not really doing much this game other than trying to pocket and defend me, which she's done before as town and as scum
i don't have a read on happy or Snivy at all. T3 feels kinda townie to me but it's mostly gut-
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my natural reaction is to get defensive when someone is wrong about me. that's just how my brain works. i realize that may seem scummy but it's something i do naturally regardless of alignment
what are your thoughts on Generic? and can you elaborate on 158?-
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i disagree. OMGUS isn't inherently scummy. i think you know that though and are just grasping at straws to try and make me look worseIn post 202, Generic wrote: The OMGUS certainly puts you in an even worse light that’s for sure
this is something i suggest when i'm scum to make me look townier XDIn post 202, Generic wrote: But I’m more than happy to thunderdome day 1.-
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so you were cool with being patient and letting the day play out until i pushed you, now suddenly you call for thunderdome and are rallying everyone to vote?
yeah, Generic is probably just scum here. i'm fine going first though. i'm at e-1 anyway-
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wow, i'm right about the thunderdome tactic aren't i? that's twice now you brought up 203. what's funny is i wasn't even reading you there, i was laughing at the irony that a potential wolf is using one of my wolf tactics. that comment led you to call me an amateur and say that I "shit my pants". i guess i would be triggered too if someone sniffed my plan out as i was proposing it-
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i think i'm done engaging with Generic here. i would like to hear what others think about the situation-
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no need to get nasty dude-
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my gut townread of T3 has faded a bit. i can see him being a Generic partner after his last two posts were basically run in, shade me, run out-
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In post 149, Generic wrote: This is a tactic known as reverse psychology. I know this well. I do this regularly.
Someone townreads or leans you, you undermine it. You look better because why would a Wolf argue against being town read?-
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In post 196, Generic wrote:
Wouldn’t be the first time for me. I will take that on board though and try and step back with a more measured eye.In post 193, camelCasedSnivy wrote: generic could be conf biased rn
there's a dissonance here. the evolution from "ill reevaluate" to "let's thunderdome!" is jarring. using OMGUS as the excuse doesn't make sense to me since townies use OMGUS all the timeIn post 202, Generic wrote:
The OMGUS certainly puts you in an even worse light that’s for sure.In post 201, Black wrote: my natural reaction is to get defensive when someone is wrong about me. that's just how my brain works. i realize that may seem scummy but it's something i do naturally regardless of alignment
what are your thoughts on Generic? and can you elaborate on 158?
But I’m more than happy to thunderdome day 1.
there's dissonance here too. Generic is trying to convince me i'm wrong about him even though he's convinced i'm scumGeneric wrote:I’m afraid you are so wrong it’s tragic.-
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hey you found the popcorn emoji! nice! haha-
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In post 228, Generic wrote: Since I have no idea who the mafia players are why would I be certain to the point I wouldn’t speak to you as a neutral until you flip?In post 149, Generic wrote: Just so everyone knows, I refuse to townread black for the rest of the game. Short of a mod clear or a cop check I will be assuming she is mafia. And is currently where my vote will be going.-
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you can't keep your fake reads organized-
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you knew 231 was scummy so you had to follow up with a condescending 232 to correct your tone lol-
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Thunderdomes are pretty awful for the town. if you really are town here then the wolves are having a great time laughing about this in the PT. you won't be able to weasel your way out of getting faded D2 and town will already be down 3 members assuming the NK goes through-
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Black she/herTwilight Princessshe/her
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sheesh you are so condescending. and the misrep here is awfulIn post 241, Generic wrote: You came after me. You were certain I was a Wolf. You accused my lack of certainty over your alignment as further proof.
So what is this now? Sounds like a lack of certainty black.
Don’t be a hypocrite when you have spent the entire push on me point to inconsistency as my main scum tell this game.
please show me where i was certain you were a wolf? i wasn't certain after my reread and i'm not certain now
do i think it's likely you're scum? yes. but that's very different than what you are accusing me of here-
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Black she/herTwilight Princessshe/her
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i'm pointing out the possible scum perspective behind some of the things you are doing. that's one of the fundamental concepts of Mafia, and people don't generally get accused of misrepping if they are wrong about someone's alignment
what you just did was blatantly misrepresent my stance on your alignment. maybe this wasn't intentional, but you have a belief in your head that i've been certain you're scum when my words say otherwise-
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Black she/herTwilight Princessshe/her
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am i really giving a grammar lesson right now?
In post 203, Black wrote:
i disagree. OMGUS isn't inherently scummy. iIn post 202, Generic wrote: The OMGUS certainly puts you in an even worse light that’s for sureyou know that though and are just grasping at straws to try and make me look worsethink
this is something i suggest when i'm scum to make me look townier XDIn post 202, Generic wrote: But I’m more than happy to thunderdome day 1.In post 206, Black wrote: so you were cool with being patient and letting the day play out until i pushed you, now suddenly you call for thunderdome and are rallying everyone to vote?
yeah, Generic isjust scum here. i'm fine going first though. i'm at e-1 anywayprobablyIn post 208, Black wrote: wow, i'm right about the thunderdome tactic? that's twice now you brought up 203. what's funny is i wasn't even reading you there, i was laughing at the irony that a potential wolf is using one of my wolf tactics. that comment led you to call me an amateur and say that I "shit my pants". i guess i would be triggered too if someone sniffed my plan out as i was proposing itaren't i
these all indicate i'm not sure here, but i'm sure you'll find some way to argue that they don't XDIn post 213, Black wrote: my gut townread of T3 has faded a bit.a Generic partner after his last two posts were basically run in, shade me, run outi can see him being-
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Black she/herTwilight Princessshe/her
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my mind has never changed. i'm rarely convinced someone is scumIn post 246, Generic wrote: Make your mind up. Are you convinced I’m scum or not? Because I’ve already said the logical play here is to flip me.
i've been playing since January. you're the veteran here, not meIn post 246, Generic wrote: Because you are clearly a veteran of the game. If uou were a or you wouldn’t even hint at it until it was absolutely necessary. But I’m a safe bet.-
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Black she/herTwilight Princessshe/her
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i think you could be town here. i'm just willing to bet you're not-
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it will be the town's responsibility to remove you after i flip. unfortunately it doesn't look like i'll be getting the pleasure-
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Black she/herTwilight Princessshe/her
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this is bizarre
assume for one second that we are both town. how is flipping you first the optimal play? you claim that i'm some strong player but i would argue my town game sucks early on. we both get flipped here and i don't think it matters who is first
if you're town then you know you're town. town!you has no reason to unvote me here. you shouldn't want to help me unless you think i'm town-
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i'm not trying to offend you Generic, i just don't understand this angle if you're town. it all just feels like a stunt. your reasoning for wanting to get faded before me was because i'm a "strong" player. where did this come from? if i'm such a strong player then why am I at e-1 and the focal point of a thunderdome on page 10? do you see why your plan doesn't make sense to me and this all just feels like a ploy to get townread? help me understand-
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i feel like it has been mostly civil. i'm sorry if this isn't enjoyable for youIn post 256, Aureal wrote: I have an idea guys. How about we pretend the last 10 pages never happened and this is page 1? -_-
i should probably just step away for the night-
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