Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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Oh no, I wasn't able to replenish the diminishing quota of As! Nooooooooooooo
Oh well, Alianna was probably SK anyway, just look at that knife!"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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Anyway I've read to about page 20. I see Drew was a sticky wagon early on and that slot was miseliminated. So I'm wondering if that gamestate suggests that scum are more hand-off type letting town just run up whatever wacky townie gets the side eye the most. A more active Mafia team would perhaps try to get some other townie pushed out and leave that slot as a later bad push?"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 570, Menalque wrote:
you have experience with enchant right? I think wagoning enchant is similar to wagoning N_M -- often a good idea, but unlikely to lead to anything very telling from himIn post 567, skitter30 wrote: Why do u not think enchant is productive rn ?
like: if enchant is scum, cool, partners might bus or might just stall out plus I'm not likely to get anything from him. if enchant is town, cool, scum might back the wagon or they might let it stall out because they want to keep him around as a later game lim instead of burning the lim D1
this is not me shitting on enchant but again, similar to N_M, he's limbait and regardless of alignment I don't think the wagons on him are likely to be that productive or to spur other people into having interesting reactions or to do things that are revealing of alignment whereas a wagon elsewhere is more likely to lead to those things imo
HEY!!! No stealing my thoughts before I've even joined the game to have them!!!
But really on the rest of that, since when is Enchant limbait? Don't think I've ever seen it happen before this. I think he probably was just in too much of a hole from Drew's position? (I'm still reading ofc)"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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Hmmmmmmm... *eyes Invis NK*In post 683, Andante wrote: do people actually tr invisibility? or like if I was a hypothetical vig… would people be mad if I shot invis tonight?"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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I'm just getting to page 30 and I'm tired so I don't know if I'll get all caught up tonight. For the moment here's where that puts me.
I'm thinking Aisa town, the weird vote reaction test on my slot doesn't make sense coming from scum. And her sudden unprompted turnabout on Andante, why would scum do that? Feels a lot like I do about Andante, lol. One moment you're like ok Andante town then just suddenly such doubt because she's so volatile. I thought Andante town for a while too (I peeked at this game a few days back when the slot was getting replaced and read her ISO) but I'm not positive, especially after the weird question about Invis and since she didn't get shot.
I feel fairly good about skitter. Her early reads did not mesh with mine well, and I recall her having a pretty opposite take on the game when I played a newbie with her before too so that kinda lines up. Plus her thought that Menalque could be Enchant's partner is the same way she was thinking regarding a similar situation there.
Menalque I was worried about for a bit since I saw nothing for quite a while, but I realized he was vla and waited to see if he became active, and he did. I hear he has a pretty anemic scum game so he's seeming fine now.
I'm watching implosion be a clear driver of the wagon on Enchant and going "scum wouldn't bethatbrazen... Right?" So I'm not like totally sold on implosion, it is kinda weird that there's apparently no counterwagoning, but probably not a Mafia slot?
Slots I'm most concerned about probably Dunnstral (all he's done is complain that Alianna's reads were against low activity slots), CSF (haven't seen much analysis or activity there), Alianna (kinda vanished but probably for non AI reasons), Cephrir (complaining about being bored and waving the Enchant wagon onward are all I really recall here). And I guess sheep falls more into the crowd that needs careful watching still because they're active but I'm just not really getting anything to townread."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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Page 36. Wow. Lol.
I liked CSF's coming for Dunnstral, that was a pretty good point that it's weird to apparently randomly look at the activity overview in order to shade someone's reads.
Then when a counterwagon is actually threatening Dunn, sheep starts acting like Enchant is a done deal, don't look elsewhere, gotta do this. I do not like this.
Pretty sad that the last votes on Enchant are town though. Could consider Menalque there as I think someone suggested, but I still think he's town, even more than before. Just wrong town. That's a silly town gambit, not a scum one."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 1018, sheepsaysmeep wrote: I just think like, obviously statistically there is wolf, but relatively the wagon felt very town-driven. like I think this wagon has way less of an expected value of wolves contained than the average d1 wagon on a villager so I think "since we know there's a wolf on the wagon let's focus there" is agendaly misapplied to this game
I infact think youre far more likely to find wolf off-wagon, for whiteknighty reasons + if there are people who didnt get the enchant!wolf push, that feels legit a little >rand w
Why exactly is it that you think this wagon was so much less likely to have scum on it?
pedit: g'whoa, implosionmath"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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And I'm the first replacement to catch up! Yay, I win!
I feel a little better about Ceph from the skitter push on him here. Not because of all the silly "I'm so towny" stuff, but I do find some credibility in the idea that he's made his meta case on Enchant before and finds it exasperating to have to spell it out for people again.
Hmmmm. At this point I think I'm going to VOTE: Dunnstral. Still not seeing anything towny here, the only seeming to pop up to argue with people scumreading him isn't a great look, and the counter wagon on him seemingly speeding up pressure to launch Enchant could be telling."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 1055, Dunnstral wrote:
Can you point to where this happens?In post 1050, Aureal wrote: the counter wagon on him seemingly speeding up pressure to launch Enchant could be telling.
CSF put a fourth vote on you with a pretty decent argument that could've actually brought your wagon into focus as a serious thing. Instead it started getting waved off by sheep in particular as a done deal that needed to happen.
Actually, Invis NK after she was the sixth vote on Enchant could be scum trying to get us to think this sudden haste to take out Enchant was all nice and towny?
On the subject of Andante, I try not to assign ai reasons to replace puts (I think a few mods do have a rule against discussing it). It's pretty clear though that she left Team Mafia because people were very pissed at her, and I don't blame her at all. Her scum teammates literally told her not to sign up to play with them again."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 1064, Dunnstral wrote: So why don't you vote sheep instead of me then?
Uh, why? If sheep was trying to make sure Enchant got flipped rather than you, surely the obvious implication would be that you're likely scum partners? Is it very likely that scum goes out of the way trying to wave a town wagon onward when the growing counterwagon is also town?"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 1071, Dunnstral wrote: At the end of the day you've arrived at voting me because someone else is playing scummy to you
At the end of the day that's a mischaracterization that makes me feel better about where my vote is.
Like even if the possible sheep association thing was absolutely the only reason I had to think you could be scum, and it's not; in a vacuum it'd be a coin flip whether to vote you or sheep to investigate the association. But it's not even a vacuum, you're getting voted already and sheep isn't so obviously it'd make more sense to vote you."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 1100, Aisa wrote:In post 1072, Aisa wrote:@sheep
Can you explain why they felt the game most similarly to you?In post 943, sheepsaysmeep wrote:
ehhh im on a pretty different wavelength, I think ceph+implo are the 2 who feel the game most similarly to me in a way that's probably just villa lo lIn post 937, skitter30 wrote: I'm somewhat questioning ceph and implo now. I don't really think csf is town
I'm still somewhat sketchy on andante's slot tbh@sheep
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I think I'm like at {Dunn, Delta, Aureal, sheep} in terms of slots I want to look at first, maybe with a chance of skitter once I reread skitt vs ceph
Aisa, what do you think about Dunn's pushback against my vote?
What exactly is consensus there?In post 1101, Dunnstral wrote: I don't like how consensus the above feels"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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It definitely is a thing and that post does sort of give me those vibes now that you point it out. Maybe because talking about it in terms of 'liking' is reminding me of another game where scum slightly pocketed me by lightly pushing against my wagon (which his partner was constantly trying to stir up ofc). Okay yeah, that it was phrased like "I don't like Aureal but I don't want them gone" but I think that's because he was also trying to pocket LLD.In post 1126, Aisa wrote: However, whiteknighting townies is a thing, scum not always pushing the obvious suspects is a thing, and implosion talks almost like he has never seen the scum playstyle of "pop in a couple times a day, state a couple reads, and get out" (<3)"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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What, you think it's contagious? The slot might be slightly cursed with illness and now Delta's VLA for a couple days like he usually is this time of week and so he can't get into the game after all, I don't think that's scum-indicative."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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So Ceph, if the double-replacement seriously affects your attitude towards a slot, what are you going to think if Andante/Meg becomes someone else too?"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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Why does it matter for one slot but not the other?"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 1195, Aisa wrote: What are your reads other than Dunn, Aureal?
Well, I tried to get my subconscious to answer this since I was getting in bed when you asked. But all that really came through by morning was something about Egix following people and being suspicious by covering the peephole in the door so nobody could see who was sneaking around outside.
THANKS A LOT SUBCONSCIOUS
I don't understand the hating on fire's slot. I think Alianna did one thing that comes off badly and I'm not convinced it's ai, it could well just be unfortunate. I dislike the replacements therefore scummy idea that's getting pushed. For all you know Delta might have looked at the game and went "oh shit Aureal is here, goodbye!" I'm not terribly familiar with the play of either but I don't feel like they're the type who fears being scum and ditches because of it. I'm getting somewhat alarmed by the push here by some of the same people who were pushing Enchant for easy reasons also pushing fire for a silly easy reason. I've heard this person is pretty good, what are people afraid they're going to do? I've not registered any actual arguments against what fire has done. I actually liked their debate with skitter- I didn't entirely follow but I think it was useful to know that she does actually have some idea how Andante plays. I had assumed that she didn't, it makes me a little more skeptical of her now.
Not thrilled with Egix so far either, especially that last "what you want" post, lol. But I don't think the slot can be scum with Dunn, from the way CSF pushed him.
Pedit: lots of posts since I started writing, whee"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 1208, implosion wrote: I kind of see why Menalque immediately responds that way to fire's 1203 beyond just the post calling Menalque out. It feels like a very overwrought thought process. Like this assertion that Menalque must have had the whole spiel planned out from before the woo vote as town when like, part of what he was doing was asking questions.
like fire, you're saying "I don't find his reads progression believable, it doesn't seem like he genuinely had this planned since before the woo vote and all he does is ask a bunch of questions then give this big reveal" and like. yeah... the point of questions is to change your mind? I think at least part of this is me misinterpreting something but this whole post from fire just feels like either scum having a conclusion that they think they can justify and wanting to justify it, or possibly town who got a gut scumread on Menalque from reading and is now trying to back-justify why that scumread makes sense in the context of his progression without having really thought much about it before typing the words out because the read actually came from gut. And it doesn't sound like that's what firethinksthe read is. This probably doesn't make any sense though so alas
Nah, I think it makes sense and I think it's a fair point. I promptly called Mena's gambit towny because it felt justified by what had come before in my read, so it's a little strange for fire to have the opposite read. But I guess if everyone always thought the same way, this wouldn't even be a game people play."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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About...? The easy reason is the slot repeatedly getting replaced. Ceph and implosion in particular seemed to take issue there.In post 1228, Dunnstral wrote:
Go onIn post 1227, Aureal wrote: I'm getting somewhat alarmed by the push here by some of the same people who were pushing Enchant for easy reasons also pushing fire for a silly easy reason.
This stuff with Mena is much better from what I've seen, but I gotta get back to focus on work, no OT for me today."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 1277, Dunnstral wrote: I was wondering who you took issue with and what the silly easy reason is. I see 1 person who commented on the double replacement thing (cephrir) and you took that and ran with it and are trying to paint the picture that the only reason they are being voted is because of that.
I am absolutely not doing that, I'm noting the increased pressure to flip the slot since the new replacement. You can't tell me that 1136 is not trying to say the slot is scum because of the replacement. It is absolutely doing so. And implosion agrees with that in 1197. That's not saying that those people don't have other reasons- do I really need to list everyone's reasoning for their scumread in every post in order to take issue with one of them??
That said, I'm pondering the dynamics here some more since the Menalque argument. Menalque certainly comes off even townier now, and I'm getting wary of fire. Except, the nagging thought about how focused fire was on Menalque. If fire is scum, why is he focusing on arguing with Mena like he did rather than trying to more broadly push back and get people off him? Town fire would more likely want to sort Menalque than scum fire, right?
Pedit: is fire reading my posts before I post them, lol"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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That should be 1138, not 1136, didn't double-check that post number, oops."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 1246, implosion wrote:
I don't *think* anyone was actually pushing that idea? I'm certainly not.Aureal wrote: I dislike the replacements therefore scummy idea that's getting pushed.
I don't think fire isobvscumhere and I won't be surprised if he flips town but I am definitely on board with flipping him.
No? Maybe I've misinterpreted you agreeing with Cephrir, who definitely was trying to add fuel to the wagon because of the replacement. I guess you did say earlier that you don't like to ascribe meaning to replacements, which is more aligned with my thinking, so I'm confused why you started answering for Cephrir about the subject."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 1256, fireisredsir wrote: damn ur right the readlist that i made an hour after making posts describing reactions to some posts i saw while catching up doesn't line up with the thoughts expressed in those posts. how did i mess that up. ugh. i really thought nobody would notice
i truly am a terrible scum player
I think this one's a fair point by fire, not the 'how could I be such bad scum thing' but I don't think a readlist necessarily needs to perfectly line up with random thoughts that were being expressed during a replacement's catch-up? IDK, I rarely do readlists unless I'm specifically trying to organize my thoughts, but the process of organizing the list forces me to think more about all of the slots and therefore could probably end up looking different than might be expected from what I've been focused on talking about."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 1325, implosion wrote: fire/skitter/egix (which is very much Not The Scumteam lol)
Totally didn't have something like that team in the back of my head for like an hour yesterday.
>_>
Why is implosion so confusing?"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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It was multiball, it wasn't fake spew, lol. I totally wanted to find the Fire Mafia! The only difference between that and my towngame was awareness of my own partner. Not saying I won't still be able to be convincing if I ever manage to roll mafia in a regular game, but we all have yet to find that out.In post 1344, Aisa wrote:- Feel free to address any of my megapost!
I need to find some way to steal Andante's role rolls so I can play scum/PRs more, she always gets them and I never do.
On skitter, I'm not sure where you're getting certainty from. I said I felt "fairly good" and that was my initial impression from catch-up, not a deep look into her. My read has gotten shakier since then as more focus has been put on her. I really understand what you meant with that post of yours about feeling like you need to get a read on her and that's part of the reason I'm still pretty sold on you being town.
The Mena/implosion hedging I'm not completely sure what you mean? I don't even talk about implosion in the post you cite. I think I worded my comment about Mena poorly though - I was saying that we could consider Mena as being on the Enchant wagon (as implosion had suggested in 949 and I was vaguely remembering since I was reading some new stuff as I did my catch-up). Not anything about Menalque's alignment- I was putting him down as town for that and the read has only gotten stronger since to where he's my strongest townread.
CSF/Dunn... hmm, now that you bring it up again, something about that activity overview stuff is now pinging me. I thought it was a good point because I never just randomly open up activity overview - I use it to see when someone last posted if it seems like they've been absent, or maybe once in a great while if I'm curious about post count, but it's not something I use regularly. From Team Mafia though, I think CSF might actually make more use of it, she used it first when she went to look at my game. I'm not actually sure what this says about them though, lol. Is it weird for CSF to call someone out for using activity overview if she uses it in a similar manner, or is it her being able to discern someone using it in a scummy way because she uses it for information and has thought more about ways to use it? Hmmm, gonna have to think on that a bit more.
On implosion/Ceph, I'm still townreading implosion, but as I've indicated I am very confused by what he's been saying because he says he agrees with Ceph but his position does not actually agree with Ceph. Cephrir, on the other hand, feels like he's been taking the same trajectory as implosion on a lot of things and I find that more concerning.
Hmmm. It's not too bad but I'm not really feeling much more convinced than when I read it the first time.- What do you think of Ceph's case on Alianna?
The first bit about the .05% scum thing could be scummy, or it could just be curiosity. I see people scumread this 'self-awareness' trait a lot, but some people just display it much more readily. I think Alianna might be one- I've not played with her but I have seen comments that she gets wrongly scumread easily and that feels like the sort of character trait that would match up.
The readlist being easy/matching with activity, again it's another thing that could be done by scum sure. But I recall feeling about the same when I got to it so it's hard to really complain about it. It's just... the sort of thing someone who doesn't have a lot of firm thoughts yet is likely to put out too.
The rest of the stuff about hiding behind others, yeah, same sort of thing. Could be scum, could be town who's not very invested/opinionated, and her fading activity makes me seriously consider the latter.
- Who would you kill right now if you had to, and why?
Merlyn 'cause she's always scum and I totally should've caught her in dividing connor except I was more pre-occupied with
than being brave and bold enough to hammer her in that game.
But for real, that's what I'm feeling fuzzy on now and trying to figure out. I've got a few townreads but I'm spinning my wheels a bit trying to sort the other slots. Dunn I'm still not sold on so my vote's still kinda stayed there. I would've been okay with fire for a while there during the Menalque debate but like I said, I don't get why a scum fireisredsir would start going at Mena like that. Mena thinks it was to make him a possible miselimination but I don't know why scum would feel any reason to do that? There's a couple others that'd be maybes which I should really look more into regarding interactions and such. I need to buckle down and dig into this game a bit more this weekend, I've been going mostly on feels so far."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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*spins, falls down*In post 1464, Menalque wrote: @aureal, @implo, fire votes pls?
I would be willing to do sheep > fire today if that means not doing skitter
I'm trying to poke at a few ISOs, but I feel like nobody's really addressed the concern about the fire wagon that I've brought up a couple of times. Can you go more in depth into why you're still set on fire being scum? He's explained that he was intentionally being more aggressive than needed to test your reaction, but I guess you don't believe that? I still just don't see much reason for scum fire to try to take you down into limmable territory as you said- you're probably the most widely townread slot in the game. If fire is scum, he knows you're town and thus are probably going to just pull out another big towny explanation in response to his push at you, right?"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 1468, sheepsaysmeep wrote: I was going to write about aureal being wolfy but that post resolves a lot of my concerns
this game is just fucked so weird
You've got some pretty weird progression on my slot, lol. Here, I just ISOed you, here's a few of my thoughts to which I'll add that.
votes Drew in 240, no reasoning given and I'm not seeing anything coming soon afterwards
poking skeptically at other people like Alianna (108, 242) CSF (241), Woo (311, 313), Aisa (401, 482, 487) but apparently not skeptical enough to move off the unexplained Drew vote
tries to ask people about skitter, has expressed no read (495, 555)
566 is a readlist with Drew at the bottom, still no explanation for that, just feels confident (655, 665)
then 874 and 875 basically just say Enchant should be resolved, still only because "not doing legit stuff"
D2 opening is weird, thinks Aisa's movements at end of D1 is wolfy and I've no idea why
lots more concern about Aisa throughout the day, pulling back a bit (1135, 1323)
read on CSF keeps going back and forth
doubt about fire wagon, doubt about skitter, townreads me for no reason (1367) and just now expresses worry that was never expressed prior but it's okay because my post cleared it up
Well, after that I think I'm back to my Dunn/sheep thing. So yeah.In post 1475, fireisredsir wrote: dunn is a bit of an enigma and i have trouble seeing beneath the surface for him so he's difficult for me to read
my original suspicion was more of a "i could see dunn being scum this game" than anything with a good reason behind it
i also don't really like that aureal has been voteparked there while spinning around not knowing what to do with the two main wagons
Feels like we're more likely to go for sheep here from what people have been saying, unless Merlyn is being really convincing where I couldn't be (which is totally possible)? Can we make one of them a wagon? Merlyn whatcha think about sheep?"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Whatcha thinking about sheep now, fire? I can try looking at skitter's ISO too but your argument seems primarily meta-based and it feels like you've back a good bit off of it since arguing with her. So I don't know that I'm going to get much out of it. I was going to vote sheep here but now Merlyn's voting Dunn so I'd literally be going back to vanity wagoning and hoping people follow."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Yeah, pretty much. Primarily from day one stuff, where he just plopped a vote down on Enchant and it stayed there the entire day without any explanation. Like it's just sooooo obvious that it doesn't need any. It feels more like trying to stir some pots to look busy/hopefully gin up some suspicion for later on other slots because this push doesn't need it. I suppose this is possible for town too, it just seems more wolf-motivated. Like, early in D2 sheep talks about how he felt on the same page as implosion and Ceph (943) which feels more like trying to latch onto them for cover because sheep didn't actually push Enchant at all other than those posts late in the day making it out as a done deal, must stay the course. And now he feels like he's doing the same with me and my suspicion of the big wagons.In post 1489, Merlyn wrote: Looking at that ISO it looks to me like a list of what sheep HASN'T done- post concrete reads or pressure people they find sus. I know that sometimes town can run around being indecisive though and I don't think this is strong enough to vote for them. I'll stick with Dunn or skitter."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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skitter ISO thoughts (in a list bulletpoint because I don't know why the hell the site keeps wanting to screw up line breaks and randomly put a full empty line between lines sometimes but not others)
- starts with a good bit about Invis being town
pushes at Andante
doesn't understand Drew wagon in 382, but he's in 2nd lowest tier in 389 and is cool with a wagon on bottom three, just a few minutes later?
promptly gets asked about the read change by CSF and explains it's because of implosion's point (397) but this still seems really weird, literally all the posts from 382 to 389 were skitter, there was nothing in between to change her view of it
votes CSF without reasoning after the Andante claim, only prior reasoning was in 384; CSF was on the same tier as Drew in the prior readlist
asks sheep about CSF (536)
"can vote Enchant" (549) shortly after asking implosion how confident he is there (537)
thinks Menalque's Woo vote is strange (564) (and it was a ploy, lol, yeah I think she gets some townpoints there)
willing to go Enchant, suspicion of Mena for diverting it
trying to get Andante to explain why she thinks Enchant is town
"should just be flipping Enchant here" (840)
D2 skeptical of Ceph and implosion, votes Ceph (937), has no read there
interesting theory about how the end of D1 went in 960, but the post 861 which supports that she felt the game was dead almost feels a bit planted, it'd only been a few hours since a post and it was a weekday morning for probably most people?
I like the push against Ceph, seems she's feeling the same way I do about Ceph and implosion where implosion's push feels real and Ceph's more fakeable.
At the same time though it's kind of strange to go in on Ceph because she doesn't feel his conviction and ignore that sheep literally never even bothered giving reasons to vote or push Enchant? Like she doesn't think scum particularly need to be pushing it and is overlooking the Alianna and sheep slots which were there just because??
Debating the use of 'conviction' with Ceph is weird- does anyone think having conviction carries an emotional component? I don't understand what that's supposed to mean, really, other than the emotion of 'genuine belief' which is what Ceph said? I'm confused. She proceeds to continue to be skeptical that Ceph had genuine belief. (972) She comes back to it in response to implosion (998) and says she reassessed and I'm still just not really sure what this was all about.
passing comments about being skeptical of Alianna/Dunn/sheep moving to kinda wanting to vote sheep (1091) into more in-depth talk of degrading tr of sheep (1107)
goes for fire fairly soon after he replaces in and uuuuuuh do I really want to go through all this argument from yesterday again already not really
"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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In post 1513, implosion wrote: for some reason my eyes glaze over when i try to read aureal's posts :X. I don't think this is her fault but I haven't really been able to analyze them effectively
I think this is probably rather common and contributes to my declining willingness in general to expend effort making arguments. I cannot really think of any times off the top of my head when I had a read and was able to successfully push it, even when I felt strongly about it. I spend a lot of time writing up stuff only for it to be ignored/scoffed at/scumread. So I just don't really bother so much anymore, because it feels bad to effort with such poor results.
Like, I don't think I'm even really trying to make a case here, fire is right. I have no expectations of anyone being convinced by what I say. That ISO stuff is literally just my notes for myself and if someone else gets something else out of it, swell. Lots of it is stuff that I just wanted to make note of because it could be more helpful in the future after more flips. I did enough to figure out what direction I'd go, which is what people wanted to know and obviously something I should do anyway. It's day two, there's just not that much of a direction for me to focus in yet with no scum flip.
I do like sheep's big new post though. Sigh.
I wonder if we're going to get flavor in the yet to arrive vote count at the page top, and miss I because it got filled in later."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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In post 1568, Menalque wrote: VOTE: fire
Skitt was a counterwagon because fire is scum
Anyone who tries to save fire from being the lim today is also scum
Uh, you think two thirds of the remaining players are scum? This just isn't really a productive attitude. I'm more open to fire now but we could still, like, talk about it?
Probably should, but with all the vla maybe that waits until everyone is back lest we sit around waiting for days on the last people?In post 1576, sheepsaysmeep wrote: is today the day we're supposed to massclaim"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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In post 1615, fireisredsir wrote: i actually forgot egix was in this game
Bruh, is thatreallyyour excuse for totally ignoring him this whole time and instead trying to point in my direction for vague reasons that seem they should apply at least as much to others like him?
Yeah, definitely getting more okay with flipping this.
Pssst, some of us were on an alternate wagon since like, when we got here, and wanted others to come along.In post 1618, fireisredsir wrote: i think ceph being the one to actually take action and start campaigning for alternate wagons is pretty towny"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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In post 1635, Dunnstral wrote:
What about yourself? You seemed much more interested in talking about me but not so much Egix. And it's not totally clear to me why that would be.In post 1633, Aureal wrote:In post 1615, fireisredsir wrote: i actually forgot egix was in this game
Bruh, is thatreallyyour excuse for totally ignoring him this whole time and instead trying to point in my direction for vague reasons that seem they should apply at least as much to others like him?
And? That's not very comparable- I'm not the one making an argument for a scumread that was seemingly plucked at random from a group which contains many people who fit the stated argument.
Egix just conveniently reposted fire's supposed arguments why I'm scum and it boils down to "feels off" and "not trying very hard". I think it's pretty obvious that there's multiple people in the same position of not trying very hard. And "feeling off" is totally subjective meaningless fluff that anyone can use with no accountability to explain it.
If fire was genuinely sorting, how the heck did he "forget" Egix exists? Seems to me like if you think a type of behavior is suspicious you would look over the players to see who exhibits it. Not totally forget about one of them. I certainly have not forgotten Egix exists even though I usually play micros so there's still as many players in this game as I'm used to starting with. It seems like the sort of thing that someone who wanted to target someone and just backfilled some reason afterward might end up doing."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Who what huh? I thought you were talking about Ceph, the person who started the push on skitter and made sure the day ended there?In post 1638, fireisredsir wrote:
person a) was a part of tvt wagons and then actively worked to try to move away from them and dismantle the locked position towards the rest of the gameIn post 1633, Aureal wrote:
Pssst, some of us were on an alternate wagon since like, when we got here, and wanted others to come along.In post 1618, fireisredsir wrote: i think ceph being the one to actually take action and start campaigning for alternate wagons is pretty towny
Sounds like a truly confused townie who doesn't really like the direction things are going but doesn't have the oomph to get anywhere with their own reads.person b) stayed on the sidelines and mostly just wavered back and forth not wanting to sort either person in the tvt wagons for days and just let others push them
Oh wait, you're talking about me. So that's not even an accurate description. I tried to sort you pretty early on and nobody really wanted to engage with my concern about the scumread on you.
Also, if we're just stating one's own alignment as fact, how about the person who replaced into a largely scumread slot, helped organize a wagon on a townie who might have been more dangerous to scum were she not preoccupied with personal business, then started trying to lay the groundwork to push another townie once the elimination on the first seemed pretty secure?
i don't think this is the point that you think it is
also if you really believe that im scum then you shouldn't be giving yourself townpoints for staying off the wagons. i think you know that im town which is the only way this statement from you makes any sense
I'm not giving myself anything, I'm pointing out that if you're town it's pretty weird to scumread someone for having correct instincts??? But I'm really not sold that you're town anymore. You were like 30% over null and skitter 10% over null when I reviewed things towards the end of day two. You're dropping off pretty sharply now."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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In post 1642, fireisredsir wrote:
the poe is very narrow fmpov and it got narrower when skitter flipped townIn post 1640, Egix96 wrote:In post 1351, fireisredsir wrote: i think from aureal herself the thing that stood out most to me as pinging AI were the posts she made surrounding me, they just felt a little... off, i guess. some of that you touched on. it seemed more positional than being a natural train of thoughtIn post 1475, fireisredsir wrote: i also don't really like that aureal has been voteparked there while spinning around not knowing what to do with the two main wagonsIn post 1476, fireisredsir wrote: like i kinda feel like aureal has been avoiding committing to really digging into attempting to read skitter despite her being the main alternative to me at the moment and has just been focused on "but why fire??"Spoiler: long post
Like... I'm trying to understand why you now have Aureal as effectively lock scum (judging from the final bit I've quoted here) so I've ctrl-f'd her name in your iso and... well, as far as I can see, it's three things you vaguely felt, plus a meta argument.In post 1609, fireisredsir wrote: yes, as i said, i think aureal is scum. i don't really see any world where she isn't
Unless there's something I missed because I just quickly searched, I don't get why you've now seemingly gone from, like, 30 to 100.
aureal is the scummiest of those slots imo and so i can't really see any team that doesn't have her on it
if people really want me to i can take some time to try to state my reasons more clearly but i really don't think that does much to help town win the game here
Ah yes, "clear reasons, why would that help anything?" What a great argument. Truly, you are trying to help town solve here."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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In post 1646, Egix96 wrote:In post 1069, Aureal wrote:In post 1064, Dunnstral wrote: So why don't you vote sheep instead of me then?
Uh, why? If sheep was trying to make sure Enchant got flipped rather than you, surely the obvious implication would be that you're likely scum partners? Is it very likely that scum goes out of the way trying to wave a town wagon onward when the growing counterwagon is also town?
@Aisa why didn't you believe Aureal's theory here?In post 1070, Aisa wrote: Lol @ the above
Uh, I'm pretty sure that lol is because she misinterpreted who a question was directed at and answered it herself. I don't think she was laughing at me.
I hope she wasn't laughing at me."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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You didn't start the day off by calling skitter scum for voting you and suddenly pop in to end the day hammering her?"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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In post 1657, Cephrir wrote:
This isn't what your post says, and no I did not suddenly pop in I made it perfectly clear I was letting merlyn use my vote.In post 1654, Aureal wrote: You didn't start the day off by calling skitter scum for voting you and suddenly pop in to end the day hammering her?
Who was pushing skitter before you?
And there's nothing "perfectly clear" about why you hammered. It felt pretty out of the blue to me at the time, and going back and reading your posts there still doesn't much change that impression. You didn't commit to anything with your vote, you halfheartedly pondered voting with Merlyn in a way that wouldn't raise objections if you didn't do so. Like you possibly could if she'd voted where you didn't want to vote."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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You're splitting hairs. You don't think earlier events can shape later ones? Expressing suspicion of someone may well influence the opinions of others. Did you ever take it back? I don't recall you ever going "never mind everyone, I'm convinced skitter is town and my suspicion was misplaced." I haven't gone back to read it all yet but I think you just sort of stopped talking about it eventually and fire picked it up a bit later.In post 1662, Cephrir wrote: There is a difference between "started the push on skitter" and "was the first person pushing skitter"
No one cares about my skitter push and it was fully irrelevant by the time a second completely unrelated push occurred
Something like "Merlyn I'm going to vote whichever wagon you do if you vote there" would be absolutely clear. What you actually said was:You can call things halfhearted with no citation if you want I guess
"@merlyn thoughts on switching to sheep or aureal? i might just vote whatever you want right now bc i think you're town and i am so checked out"
Saying 'might' in no way makes it absolutely clear that you're going to immediately drop a hammer once Merlyn votes.
In fact, your actions there don't even make that much sense because you're asking her about moving to people who have no wagon. If you're really just checked out and wanted to vote with her regardless of wagon size, why not vote the wagon she was trying to push (Dunnstral)? That would've actually brought him back to being a potentially viable counterwagon with three votes and several others who had expressed openness to vote there."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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In post 1664, Cephrir wrote: Really made sure the day ended there by parking on fire for most of the day and then mind controlling merlyn
VOTE: aureal
You were parked on fire for most of the day? This all started because fire said you were "the one to actually take action and start campaigning for alternate wagons" remember? That doesn't seem to match up well with your description of your day. Why are you not seeming to take issue with the inaccurate way fire describes your action but nitpicking mine, other than obvious reason that fire's inaccuracy makes you look better?"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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In post 1671, Cephrir wrote:
I stand by my statements and you are either not checking whether what I've said is true or lying.In post 1670, Aureal wrote:In post 1664, Cephrir wrote: Really made sure the day ended there by parking on fire for most of the day and then mind controlling merlyn
VOTE: aureal
You were parked on fire for most of the day? This all started because fire said you were "the one to actually take action and start campaigning for alternate wagons" remember? That doesn't seem to match up well with your description of your day. Why are you not seeming to take issue with the inaccurate way fire describes your action but nitpicking mine, other than obvious reason that fire's inaccuracy makes you look better?
That response doesn't even make sense. I am comparing your description of your actions to fire's. I'm not even taking a position on how accurate those descriptions are yet; I'm saying that the two of them do not match and wondering why you're cool with fire describing your actions inaccurately according to how you yourself described what you were doing."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Sure. Why's he town? I've not had him as better than null and these conversations with him have him coming off very oddly nitpicky.In post 1716, Aisa wrote: Aureal let's talk about Ceph, I'm pretty sure he's town
I don't really see how that's compatible, but if you do I'll let it go. Saying "hey Merlyn what do you think about starting new wagons on one of these people" without even so much as moving off a main wagon yourself seems prettyIn post 1718, Aisa wrote:
fire's original wording wasIn post 1670, Aureal wrote:In post 1664, Cephrir wrote: Really made sure the day ended there by parking on fire for most of the day and then mind controlling merlyn
VOTE: aureal
You were parked on fire for most of the day? This all started because fire said you were "the one to actually take action and start campaigning for alternate wagons" remember? That doesn't seem to match up well with your description of your day. Why are you not seeming to take issue with the inaccurate way fire describes your action but nitpicking mine, other than obvious reason that fire's inaccuracy makes you look better?
which is compatible with what Ceph was doing (pushing skitter, then parked on fire, then asked about starting a 3rd wagon, then decided to sheep Merlyn which resulted in him voting skitter)In post 1638, fireisredsir wrote:person a) [Cephrir] was a part of tvt wagons and then actively worked to try to move away from them and dismantle the locked position towards the rest of the gameinactive andnotworking to me.
As far as massclaim, I've rather come around to the 'just lim fire' position. I really dislike how fire just vanished once I started pushing back at him, and has only decided to talk about implosion (a consensus townread) since then. It feels like scum realizing they could end up making me look too unpartnered if they keep engaging with me.
VOTE: fireisredsir"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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In post 1732, sheepsaysmeep wrote: im less sold by him than I'd hope I would be by his solving sequence
but when I think about how I'd expect him to re-evaluate the whole game today I think he did that for a bit; he went through a number of slots and talked about them reasonably, after your pushback
"only decided to talk about implosion" is just warped
He made a big detailed post about implosion. And threw out a few totally unmemorable ones on other people that contained basically nothing that had any substance."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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That post is just the same sort of thing from the other quote, Ceph going "hey how about sheep or aureal instead" except accompanied by an unvote which makes it even more confusing because if you don't want your vote on fire anymore and are suggesting other candidates for it, why not actually vote one?In post 1739, Aisa wrote: I guess it's not a lot, but Ceph is not a very high volume poster and you're rarely gonna see him screaming and yelling for a specific course of action. When I first saw the post I remember it made an impression because I was also panicking about who to eliminate.
Also the 'cephirarge farm remembers' thing seems to still indicate suspicion of fire??
Yeah, I'm not sure what Ceph was trying to accomplish at that point based on those posts.
Yeah maybe not, but when it's coming from someone who's being widely scumread I'd kind of expect a little more scrutiny about why this person is saying that. It feels a bit partnery, like maybe fire was trying to slip a little comment in to burnish Ceph's image in a way that isn't likely to get scrutinized.More in general why do you think Ceph not taking issue with fire's description of his actions is a problem? I wouldn't expect most players to go out of their way to correct townreads on them most of the time."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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In post 1745, Aisa wrote: Mmmm my brain is a dolphin doing all sorts of backflips rn.
What if it’s exactly Ceph + Dunn + fire? Someone please reassure me I’m not crazy and I’ve definitely got the game completely solved :3
No no, that's my thought. Your thought is that Ceph is town.
I didn't look deeply into your meta on him because I was at the dentist but I feel like Ceph was being pretty forceful and confident about Enchant and that early push on skitter?"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Hello!In post 1752, Aisa wrote: Aureal HELLO I don't know what I want but I suppose I'm here vibing
I want to figure out if I can actually get different air filters for my heat pump or if the one it came with is actually good so long as I clean it sometimes.
This is annoyingly hard to figure out."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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I guess if we look at things from the perspective of "this wagon seems to have unnatural resistance" both fire and Dunn feel like they've been skating by with wagons that could very well form, yet they haven't quite managed to coalesce enough. Is anybody actually townreading Dunn? I feel like he's probably in everyone's PoE yet whenever people try to vote him it doesn't get far."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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I don't recall there ever really being any attempt to wagon Egix's slot. It's not widely townread but not widely scumread either. I think the current one vote from Dunn is about the peak of any sort of push there.
This is probably partly because the slot has been fairly quiet, and of course it'd be nice to be hearing a little more from Egix. I do sorta feel like if it were a scumslot though, there might be more talk about it in order to create distancing?"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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In post 1773, sheepsaysmeep wrote: Aureal I feel like u have copious scumreads and minimal townreads? Like dunn, ceph, fire, me ish
Does this concern u
Uuuuuh, no? My townreads (implosion, Menalque, Aisa) have been consistently stronger than my scumreads pretty much this whole time. I'm basically just starting to feel fairly confident in the latter as well."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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I am totally cracking up at whatever the heck is going on here. Thanks guys, how am I gonna get any sleep now? XD
(yeah I'm old and didn't play Mafia for 16 years)"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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Considering fire tried to give meta on me earlier, I feel like he's gonna be pretty likely to check someone's link that says it's a scum game of mine, since he wouldn't have been able to find anything but the multiball.
But this is still pretty funny, you may continue."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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Ugh, I think I need to look even closer at the setup. I don't think the Mafia is going to know whether any further power roles are in the cop branch or other PR branches? But they should know whether there are other PRs or if the oneshot cop was it?
Also I totally didn't realize that it's possible to have only two Mafia? You're not just making that up, right? I guess that would happen if a SK was rolled, but I never saw anything saying that it would replace a Mafia member so I was thinking it'd be in addition to three Mafia."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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I did finally take a good look at the setup during the night phase but I guess I missed some details.
I'm supposed to be doing work right now so I'll look more closely afterwards. Still pretty much in the just lim fire camp though."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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That last post makes my head hurt.
But at least I figured out the possible scum teams. Because they're like, written out plainly and even though I noticed most of them had Godfathers I just didn't actually count how many roles were in them all. ._.
Still haven't figured out why the setup seems to assume that it's impossible to roll in the same PR's block of numbers more than a certain amount of times though. I want to see a 7Vs game!"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 1897, fireisredsir wrote: i lied again i got distracted looking at sheep
kinda thought going in that i was gonna scumread him more but im not as sure of that, some of the mid day 1 posting swayed me a bit. but i think if he is wolf he is just aiming for playing a super pure game where he is generally on the right side of things and is just kinda chilling to set up for endgame. which is a hard wolfgame to find. i think his posting today hasn't been as pure though, and some of the stuff surrounding skitter maybe
part of me does just want to sheep skitter on sheep idk. i wish she was still here. whos idea was it to kill her. not mine
How tf is being on both miseliminations "super pure" and "generally on the right side of things"???"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 1909, fireisredsir wrote: a big part of looking like pure innocent town is avoiding letting tmi influence your play
the enchant elim was what the majority of town wanted
and in d1 and most of d2 his takes were mostly reasonable and towny and his strongest townreads were good choices for being town.
as i pointed out i don't think he played as pure around skitter, i think that's one of the places where if he is scum, he let scum agenda influence his play more than other times
What point are you even trying to make? I cannot make heads or tails of this. Is being on a bad elimination wagon just because townies are suspicious to you or not?
And how do you know what the majority of town wanted regarding Enchant?? There's 9 to 11 town in game there and we have 3 flipped town on that wagon."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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So you are trying to say that being on a bad elimination without reasons of your own is towny?"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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And please don't avoid the question about why you assert that the majority of town wanted Enchant. Two flipped town were there plus Enchant himself."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 1916, fireisredsir wrote:
lol???In post 1913, Aureal wrote: So you are trying to say that being on a bad elimination without reasons of your own is towny?
lmao???
That's not an answer so I'm going to assume you're just word salading some nonsense and can't answer because you don't actually have a worldview that makes any sense."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
-furtiveglance-
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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- Location: Black's pocket