Player Slot and Game Census

This forum is for discussion related to the game.
User avatar
zoraster
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
User avatar
User avatar
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
Disorganized Crime
Posts: 21680
Joined: June 10, 2008
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Belmont, CA

Player Slot and Game Census

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:40 am

Post by zoraster »

Just a quick thread to post this. I went through and attempted to find all of the living player slots in ongoing games. I counted them up by game type. I did include games in pregame.

Image
Image
Image

9/6/13

Newbie Games:
164 slots out of 22 games (7.45 p/g) 20%
Open Games:
128 slots out of 14 games (9.14 p/g) 16%
Mini-Normal Games:
76 slots out of 7 games (10.86 p/g) 9%
Mini-Theme Games:
131 slots out of 15 games (8.7 p/g) 16%
Large Normal Games:
29 slots out of 3 games (9.67 p/g) 4%
Large Theme Games:
156 slots out of 13 games (12 p/g) 24%
Micros:
83 slots out of 13 games (6.38 p/g) 10%

4/10/13

Newbie Games:
128 slots out of 17 games (7.53 p/g) 18.82%
Open Games:
93 slots out of 10 games (9.3 p/g) 13.68%
Mini-Normal Games:
70 slots out of 7 games (10.0 p/g) 10.29%
Mini-Theme Games:
131 slots out of 17 games (7.7 p/g) 19.26%
Large Normal Games:
35 slots out of 3 games (11.67 p/g) 5.15%
Large Theme Games:
114 slots out of 9 games (12.67 p/g) 16.76%
Micros:
109 slots out of 16 games (6.81 p/g) 19.09%

Overall:
680 slots out of 79 games (8.61 p/g)

3/12/13

Newbie Games:
124 slots out of 16 games (7.75 p/g) 19.56%
Open Games:
90 slots out of 9 games (10 p/g) 14.20%
Mini-Normal Games:
53 slots out of 6 games (8.8 p/g) 8.36%
Mini-Theme Games:
79 slots out of 13 games (6.1 p/g) 12.46%
Large Normal Games:
27 slots out of 2 games (13.5 p/g) 4.26%
Large Theme Games:
140 slots out of 9 games (15.6 p/g) 22.08%
Micros:
121 slots out of 17 games (7.1 p/g) 19.09%

Overall:
634 slots out of 72 games (8.81 p/g)

12/8/12

Newbie Games:
91 slots out of 12 games (7.6 p/g) 16.82%
Open Games:
82 slots out of 10 games (8.2 p/g) 15.16%
Mini-Normal Games:
64 slots out of 6 games (10.7 p/g) 11.83%
Mini-Theme Games:
87 slots out of 9 games (10.9 p/g) 16.08%
Large Normal Games:
10 slots out of 1 game (10.0 p/g) 1.85%
Large Theme Games:
117 slots out of 10 games (11.7 p/g) 21.63%
Micros:
90 slots out of 13 games (6.9 p/g) 16.64%

Overall:
541 slots out of 61 games (8.87 p/g)

6/26/12
Newbie Games:
98 slots out of 13 games ( 7.5 p/g) 15.4%
Open Games:
135 slots out of 15 games ( 9.0 p/g) 21.2%
Mini-Normal Games:
68 slots out of 7 games ( 9.7 p/g) 10.7%
Mini-Theme Games:
95 slots out of 10 games ( 9.5 p/g) 14.9%
Large Normal Games:
13 slots out of 1 games ( 13.0 p/g) 2.0%
Large Theme Games:
229 slots out of 15 games ( 15.3 p/g) 35.9%

Overall:
638 slots out of 61 games (10.5 p/g)

10/1/11
Newbie Games:
155 slots out of 23 games ( 6.7 p/g) 17.92%
Open Games:
106 slots out of 11 games ( 9.6 p/g) 12.25%
Mini-Normal Games:
97 slots out of 11 games ( 8.8 p/g) 11.21%
Mini-Theme Games:
195 slots out of 20 games ( 9.8 p/g) 22.54%
Large Normal Games:
47 slots out of 4 games ( 11.8 p/g) 5.43%
Large Theme Games:
265 slots out of 19 games ( 13.9 p/g) 30.64%

Overall:
865 slots out of 88 games (9.83 p/g)

8/20/11:
Newbie Games:
184 slots out of 26 games (7.1 p/g) 22.5%
Open Games:
104 slots out of 10 games (10.4 p/g) 12.7%
Mini-Normal Games:
80 slots out of 8 games (10.0 p/g) 9.8%
Mini-Theme Games:
153 slots out of 16 games (9.6 p/g) 18.7%
Large Normal Games:
68 slots out of 5 games (13.6 p/g) 8.3%
Large Theme Games:
230 slots out of 18 games (12.8 p/g) 28.1%

Overall:
819 slots out of 83 games (9.9 p/g)

This is interesting as I assumed there would be FAR more mini-theme player slots than any other games, but that turns out not to be even remotely true. I think mini-themes are usually designed to go a lot quicker than other games. Also, it can't help that there was a recent clog in the mini-theme circuit. Newbie games are notoriously slow, so it's not too much of a surprise that a lot play there. Large Themes are, well, large so it's not too surprising that it outnumbers other games.

--
By the way, I have a certain level of hate for moderators who don't post a "Living" list on the front page. I feel a smaller annoyance at moderators who don't number their alive lists or do that thing where each player is a number and then they just remove the number and the player from the alive list. A special part of my heart goes out to those who put at the top of their alive list "Alive (10/13)"
Last edited by zoraster on Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:51 pm, edited 12 times in total.
.
User avatar
Vi
Vi
Professor Paragon
User avatar
User avatar
Vi
Professor Paragon
Professor Paragon
Posts: 11768
Joined: June 29, 2008
Location: GMT-5

Post Post #1 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:42 am

Post by Vi »

While I agree entirely with your hate for people who do not post accurate lists of people who are alive in the first post, I'm not sure what you're researching here.
Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.
User avatar
zoraster
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
User avatar
User avatar
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
Disorganized Crime
Posts: 21680
Joined: June 10, 2008
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Belmont, CA

Post Post #2 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:14 am

Post by zoraster »

Vi wrote:While I agree entirely with your hate for people who do not post accurate lists of people who are alive in the first post, I'm not sure what you're researching here.


You're not sure what or why?

The what is pretty easy: how many people are currently alive in any game across the site. Obviously many people are alive in more than one game, so it's "slots" rather than "players."

The why is a little more difficult to answer as it kind of has a lot of answers and just one: I was curious. I did the work for myself, but I figured it might be mildly interesting to other people. I provide it without much comment as I'm not trying to prove a point or anything with it.

The other answers are that I think it helps provide a more complete snapshot of the game system itself along with the queue data, etc. It might be interesting to do this again in 3 months and see how it changes with time.
.
User avatar
Vi
Vi
Professor Paragon
User avatar
User avatar
Vi
Professor Paragon
Professor Paragon
Posts: 11768
Joined: June 29, 2008
Location: GMT-5

Post Post #3 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:41 am

Post by Vi »

zoraster wrote:The why is a little more difficult to answer as it kind of has a lot of answers and just one: I was curious.
That's as good a reason as any :D

Actually, the 230 player slots active in Large Theme games reminds me of a theory someone had that I was talking about a while ago... actually... that was with you.

Never mind me then (>")>

Actually, what would be really cool is some measurement of how long game Days are on average in different types of games. It might be easier to measure that directly, though.
Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.
User avatar
Thok
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
User avatar
User avatar
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Posts: 7013
Joined: March 28, 2005

Post Post #4 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:53 pm

Post by Thok »

I know the obvious application: this is the sort of data that can lead to a more refined version of my first law, which is useful for everybody who cares about the mod queue length. (The point is that active games slot might be a better number to input then total player slots.)
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
User avatar
Mr. Flay
Mr. Flay
Metatron
User avatar
User avatar
Mr. Flay
Metatron
Metatron
Posts: 24969
Joined: March 12, 2004
Location: Gormenghast
Contact:

Post Post #5 (ISO) » Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:06 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

Yeah, sounds like a refinement to Thok's Law.

Nice work, Zor.
Retired as of October 2014.
User avatar
zoraster
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
User avatar
User avatar
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
Disorganized Crime
Posts: 21680
Joined: June 10, 2008
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Belmont, CA

Post Post #6 (ISO) » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:41 am

Post by zoraster »

I actually have some criticism of Thok's first law that I've been meaning to write. I think it has some problems, but it's still useful.

EDIT: Just to preview that criticism it's basically based on Thok's logic. He used a poll that reported 85% of people were interested in moderating a game. His assumption when he came to 10 games a person in order to reach equilibrium relies on the assumption that all poll respondents will want to moderate a game at all times and immediately. An assumption that is obviously incorrect as I'd imagine there are only a few people who would like to moderate a game at all times.
.
User avatar
Mr. Flay
Mr. Flay
Metatron
User avatar
User avatar
Mr. Flay
Metatron
Metatron
Posts: 24969
Joined: March 12, 2004
Location: Gormenghast
Contact:

Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:48 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

No, I'd say his hypothesis is pretty close to your data. Not everybody
plays
all the time, either.

Actually we're probably doing a little worse than 1:10, since the Mini Queue lengths are not getting any better, and neither is Large Theme. Not sure about Open...
Retired as of October 2014.
User avatar
Vi
Vi
Professor Paragon
User avatar
User avatar
Vi
Professor Paragon
Professor Paragon
Posts: 11768
Joined: June 29, 2008
Location: GMT-5

Post Post #8 (ISO) » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:52 am

Post by Vi »

zoraster wrote:An assumption that is obviously incorrect as I'd imagine there are only a few people who would like to moderate a game at all times.
Only a few?
Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.
User avatar
Thok
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
User avatar
User avatar
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Posts: 7013
Joined: March 28, 2005

Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:22 am

Post by Thok »

zoraster wrote:I actually have some criticism of Thok's first law that I've been meaning to write. I think it has some problems, but it's still useful.


For what it's worth, I have some criticism of my first law that I've been meaning to ponder. (Basically that player game slots aren't exactly what we care about: there's a time factor as well.)

That said, the basic idea of my first law is a useful starting point for a discussion and points out that there's a fundamental obstacle limiting the effect of suggestions to speed up the queues. Refinements may lower the number of games we need people to play on average to keep pace with the mini queues' modding requirements from 10 games per person to 6 games per person, but it's utterly unreasonable to expect people to play much more than 2 to 3 mini games on average.
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
User avatar
zoraster
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
User avatar
User avatar
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
Disorganized Crime
Posts: 21680
Joined: June 10, 2008
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Belmont, CA

Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:52 am

Post by zoraster »

Absolutely. And I guess the truth is that it's usually just used to show that there are always going to be more mods than players, which is fair and true. I just think it may overemphasize how fast it'll grow.
.
User avatar
mykonian
mykonian
Frisian Shoulder-Demon
User avatar
User avatar
mykonian
Frisian Shoulder-Demon
Frisian Shoulder-Demon
Posts: 11963
Joined: August 27, 2008

Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:56 am

Post by mykonian »

zoraster wrote:
Mini-Normal Games:
80 slots out of 8 games (10.0 p/g)
Mini-Theme Games:
153 slots out of 16 games (9.6 p/g)
Large Normal Games:
68 slots out of 5 games (13.6 p/g)
Large Theme Games:
230 slots out of 18 games (12.8 p/g)


why would themed games have relatively longer later days?
Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.
User avatar
zoraster
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
User avatar
User avatar
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
Disorganized Crime
Posts: 21680
Joined: June 10, 2008
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Belmont, CA

Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:05 pm

Post by zoraster »

mykonian wrote:
zoraster wrote:
Mini-Normal Games:
80 slots out of 8 games (10.0 p/g)
Mini-Theme Games:
153 slots out of 16 games (9.6 p/g)
Large Normal Games:
68 slots out of 5 games (13.6 p/g)
Large Theme Games:
230 slots out of 18 games (12.8 p/g)


why would themed games have relatively longer later days?


I don't think they do? What do you mean?
.
User avatar
mykonian
mykonian
Frisian Shoulder-Demon
User avatar
User avatar
mykonian
Frisian Shoulder-Demon
Frisian Shoulder-Demon
Posts: 11963
Joined: August 27, 2008

Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:18 pm

Post by mykonian »

the averages of the themed games are lower. I was assuming (and I could very well be wrong here) that themes and normals started out with similar amounts of players. If so, themed games apparently spend more time in the later days, since that would make their averages lower.

(I know, small samples, poor assumptions, etc)
Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.
User avatar
animorpherv1
animorpherv1
Honey Trap
User avatar
User avatar
animorpherv1
Honey Trap
Honey Trap
Posts: 5763
Joined: April 12, 2008
Location: Untraveled Road
Contact:

Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:22 pm

Post by animorpherv1 »

myko, themed games are more open to other killing roles (Serial Killers and Multiple Mafia Groups for example) as well. So it's not only that they have more days, it's also the fact that there tends to be more killing roles in themed games.
"Animorpherv1's posts are so powerful that prolonged exposure may cause vertigo, nausea, acute tinnitus, and in rare cases, death." - vonflare

"Ani is right 100% of the time" - Alisae
User avatar
zoraster
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
User avatar
User avatar
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
Disorganized Crime
Posts: 21680
Joined: June 10, 2008
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Belmont, CA

Post Post #15 (ISO) » Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:07 pm

Post by zoraster »

mykonian wrote:the averages of the themed games are lower. I was assuming (and I could very well be wrong here) that themes and normals started out with similar amounts of players. If so, themed games apparently spend more time in the later days, since that would make their averages lower.

(I know, small samples, poor assumptions, etc)


an interesting observation, but I'm not sure a .4 difference in players per game can be entirely attributed to more players in later game. I'm not sure killing roles really would account for the difference though.

I'll do it again in 3 months or so and see if it's the same then
.
User avatar
Ranmaru
Ranmaru
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Ranmaru
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7088
Joined: March 7, 2011

Post Post #16 (ISO) » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:42 pm

Post by Ranmaru »

Hey guys, I don't know if this relates to this, but I have a question. Which sections do you feel are focused in higher skilled games? I'm interested in this because sometimes it seems some are a bit more casual than others, and this matters to me because not only do I play for fun, but I also play to win. Generally I want to have a challenge, and want to be able to improve and see players with much higher skill than me so I can learn a thing or too.

Or do you think it only depends on the setup?

I mean, essentially. Does more players = higher chance of games with good skill sets, or no? (I don't want to distract from the topic, but I was wondering if the numbers could affect this)
User avatar
Mr. Flay
Mr. Flay
Metatron
User avatar
User avatar
Mr. Flay
Metatron
Metatron
Posts: 24969
Joined: March 12, 2004
Location: Gormenghast
Contact:

Post Post #17 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:08 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

Ranmaru wrote:I mean, essentially. Does more players = higher chance of games with good skill sets, or no?

Not in my experience; it's very 'random', mostly determined by playerlist and to a smaller degree by setup, in my experience. Larger games have a higher chance to have a VI, for example, but also that VI is a smaller percentage overall (usually). Complex setups can either attract good playerlists or be totally distracting and derailing to 'basic mafia' skills.
Retired as of October 2014.
User avatar
zoraster
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
User avatar
User avatar
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
Disorganized Crime
Posts: 21680
Joined: June 10, 2008
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Belmont, CA

Post Post #18 (ISO) » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:13 am

Post by zoraster »

Updated this list with the current numbers. They are:

Newbie Games:
155 slots out of 23 games ( 6.7 p/g) 17.92%
Open Games:
106 slots out of 11 games ( 9.6 p/g) 12.25%
Mini-Normal Games:
97 slots out of 11 games ( 8.8 p/g) 11.21%
Mini-Theme Games:
195 slots out of 20 games ( 9.8 p/g) 22.54%
Large Normal Games:
47 slots out of 4 games ( 11.8 p/g) 5.43%
Large Theme Games:
265 slots out of 19 games ( 13.9 p/g) 30.64%

865 slots (gain of 46 slots from 8/20) in 88 games (gain of 5 games)

Comparison to the previous:
Game Type, October 1st total
Slot adjustment
|
Percent of total slots adjustment


Newbie Games:
155
-29 -4.58%

Open Games:
106
+2
|
-0.45%

Mini-Normal Games:
97
+17
|
+1.1%

Mini-Theme Games:
195
+42
|
+3.84%

Large Normal Games:
47
-21
|
-2.87%

Large Theme Games:
265
+35
|
+2.54%


Please keep in mind that these are slots currently alive. This does not mean unique players alive.
.
User avatar
Kcdaspot
Kcdaspot
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Kcdaspot
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5275
Joined: November 17, 2010
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Yes Im Here Still

Post Post #19 (ISO) » Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:11 pm

Post by Kcdaspot »

hey are you including duplicates?

Like say the same person is in two games.
A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?
User avatar
animorpherv1
animorpherv1
Honey Trap
User avatar
User avatar
animorpherv1
Honey Trap
Honey Trap
Posts: 5763
Joined: April 12, 2008
Location: Untraveled Road
Contact:

Post Post #20 (ISO) » Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:12 pm

Post by animorpherv1 »

In post 18, zoraster wrote:Please keep in mind that these are slots currently alive. This does not mean unique players alive.
"Animorpherv1's posts are so powerful that prolonged exposure may cause vertigo, nausea, acute tinnitus, and in rare cases, death." - vonflare

"Ani is right 100% of the time" - Alisae
User avatar
GreyICE
GreyICE
Fifty Shades
User avatar
User avatar
GreyICE
Fifty Shades
Fifty Shades
Posts: 15455
Joined: December 15, 2010

Post Post #21 (ISO) » Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:48 am

Post by GreyICE »

In post 18, zoraster wrote:Updated this list with the current numbers. They are:

Newbie Games:
155 slots out of 23 games ( 6.7 p/g) 17.92%
Open Games:
106 slots out of 11 games ( 9.6 p/g) 12.25%
Mini-Normal Games:
97 slots out of 11 games ( 8.8 p/g) 11.21%
Mini-Theme Games:
195 slots out of 20 games ( 9.8 p/g) 22.54%
Large Normal Games:
47 slots out of 4 games ( 11.8 p/g) 5.43%
Large Theme Games:
265 slots out of 19 games ( 13.9 p/g) 30.64%

865 slots (gain of 46 slots from 8/20) in 88 games (gain of 5 games)

Comparison to the previous:
Game Type, October 1st total
Slot adjustment
|
Percent of total slots adjustment


Newbie Games:
155
-29 -4.58%

Open Games:
106
+2
|
-0.45%

Mini-Normal Games:
97
+17
|
+1.1%

Mini-Theme Games:
195
+42
|
+3.84%

Large Normal Games:
47
-21
|
-2.87%

Large Theme Games:
265
+35
|
+2.54%


Please keep in mind that these are slots currently alive. This does not mean unique players alive.

Not bad, these numbers are holding stable.
Show
That which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil


Official Visigoth

Read Mother Jones
User avatar
zoraster
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
User avatar
User avatar
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
Disorganized Crime
Posts: 21680
Joined: June 10, 2008
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Belmont, CA

Post Post #22 (ISO) » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:46 am

Post by zoraster »

6/26/12
Newbie Games:
98 slots out of 13 games ( 7.5 p/g) 15.4%
Open Games:
135 slots out of 15 games ( 9.0 p/g) 21.2%
Mini-Normal Games:
68 slots out of 7 games ( 9.7 p/g) 10.7%
Mini-Theme Games:
95 slots out of 10 games ( 9.5 p/g) 14.9%
Large Normal Games:
13 slots out of 1 games ( 13.0 p/g) 2.0%
Large Theme Games:
229 slots out of 15 games ( 15.3 p/g) 35.9%

Overall:
638 slots out of 61 games (10.5 p/g)

Comparison to the previous:
Game Type, June 26th total
Slot adjustment
|
Percent of total slots adjustment


Newbie Games:
98
-57 | -2.5%

Open Games:
135
+29
|
+9.0%

Mini-Normal Games:
68
-29
|
-0.5%

Mini-Theme Games:
95
-100
|
-7.6%

Large Normal Games:
13
-34
|
-3.4%

Large Theme Games:
229
-36
|
+5.3%


Please keep in mind that these are slots currently alive. This does not mean unique players alive.
.
User avatar
zoraster
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
User avatar
User avatar
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
Disorganized Crime
Posts: 21680
Joined: June 10, 2008
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Belmont, CA

Post Post #23 (ISO) » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:59 am

Post by zoraster »

Obviously we're still recovering from the crash, especially in the case of large normals (although % of slots playing large themes is actually up).

But a couple of things that REALLY stand out: Opens are way, way up (in fact the only category that has more slots now than in October). I attribute this to the far better game selection and Hoopla's influence there. The other is that Mini-Themes are way, way down. I don't know how to account for this. It's been enough months that nearly all mini-themes should be post-crash.

So I'm not sure what's causing this except maybe a shift in tastes, possibly brought on by well known mods running fewer mini-themes and more large themes, and a better selection of interesting open games as an alternative to minis.
.
User avatar
quadz08
quadz08
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
quadz08
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5619
Joined: May 30, 2010
Location: where the wily things are

Post Post #24 (ISO) » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:02 am

Post by quadz08 »

The mini theme games tend to be smaller than the maximum of 13, at an immediate glance.

Additionally, keep in mind that a lot of the players who would usually be in mini themes right now were probably playing Team Mafia.
Current Avatar: Kronk. Duh.
Post Reply

Return to “Mafia Discussion”