Theoretical Game Setup Discussion

[Mr. Flay]

Everyone shoots the person below them in the first post N1/N0. One vigilante should live, for a town auto-win.

[Mr. Flay]

It'd be interesting to have more closed mountainous games or even games where the town have nothing but drawback roles being run, but the metagame supports the assumptions that the town will have at least one investigative role, at least one protective role, and no duplicated roles as overwhelmingly safe assumptions in minis.

And the metagame gets worse if only

certain

mods are bucking the system...

[Mr. Flay]

I think you misunderstand me. I

am

one of the mods who doesn't subscribe to the "at least one investigative role, at least one protective role, and no duplicated roles" model - but once that gets out, players begin to metagame you as moderator, and some of the advantage (in cancelling assumptions) gets taken away...

[Mr. Flay]

Yes, but that doesn't help the "minis have become predictable". It just becomes "minis modded by someone other than Seol, Flay, or X are predictable". And I don't really mod Mini Normals anyway, so it's kind of moot...

I don't

know

what the answer is. But the crippling assumption that you will have a sane cop and an effective protective role in a mini game should go, IMO. I guess the only way to do that is to discuss the possibility for other balance mechanisms for the game (which is what we're doing), so that newer mods are aware that there's another way.

[Mr. Flay]

Yes, but that doesn't help the "minis have become predictable". It just becomes "minis modded by someone other than Seol, Flay, or X are predictable".

Sure, it will be "Every mini but flay, TSQ, and Seol mods will be X" but that is STILL preferable to "Every mini will be X" at least in my opinion.

This is a worthy quote chain.

I agree, and it hasn't stopped me from avoiding the standard roles/setups. I'm just impatient sometimes.

[Mr. Flay]

(moved from Open Game Discussion, where it doesn't strictly belong)

War in Heaven

(on Marathon Day, I called this Angel Nightless)

• 4X Seraphim, X of which are in a single 'fallen angel' (scum) faction. All Seraphim start out with 8(?) HP.
  
• Nightless. Kills ("casting out of Heaven") happen either by normal lynches or secret attacks.
  • Attacks take place via PM, being too fast for even other angels to see. Each one drops the target 1HP. Currently, I think the attack's "effect" will be revealed in-thread, but not who did it.
    
  • Seraphim may also 'donate' 1 HP to another player, probably also secretly (for game balance reasons rather than flavor; otherwise scum could hardly defend each other).
    
  • I'm willing to be persuaded to make either/both of these actions public if someone can convince me it won't break the game wide open.
• Current HP will probably not be announced in thread, but I may be keeping too much information secret from players at this point. Anybody got a Hit/Heal game to point me at for an example of how it runs in practice?
  
• PJ suggested in the other thread that too much healing might result in a Seraphim's death, therefore preventing Unkillable Confirmed Innocents. I kinda like the idea, and it obviates most of the need for making current HP secret.

Precursors include Damage Nightless from the 2007 Marathon Day thread. To avoid the breaking strategy Pooky proposed there, a Vengeful God rule will be in place: if anyone purposefully is set aside from the War to be a 'ringer' while the rest kill each other, that Seraphim will be reduced in HP to match the total of the lowest living player.

Thoughts? Other breaking strategies? I'll be running this in a couple of weeks...

[Mr. Flay]

Ah, right, cooldown: probably 12 or 24 hours. I don't want to have to send out eighty gazillion PMs reminding people though...

I figured I'd announce the effects on a regular basis, like every 12-24 hours. However if I can't get on, that could be problematic. Ideas?

[Mr. Flay]

Everyone has the ability to shoot though, which negates the Texas Justice strategy.

What benefit do do you envision Circular Shooting having in this case, for the Town?

[Mr. Flay]

Hmmm, good point. I was thinking that removing lynching would make it even more of a Mutation game, but as long as that's clear ahead of time, no big deal, right? I forget sometimes that Theme games encompass such a wide variety. I kinda like your 'secret abilities' hack for Mafia... (and it removes the need for co-mods, since players can track the public side of hurt/heal). Tallies will be complicated, though... I want to hear back from Pooky about Circular Shooting before I finalize.

Max: I'm intrigued.

[Mr. Flay]

War in Heaven's game thread is up: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8203

Feel free to pick it apart (if you'd rather signup, the link is in my signature).

[Mr. Flay]

You've separated Alignment from Power, which is a good thing in a game setup like this. It also makes it replayable, which is nice.

I agree with crosskill immunity. I can't decide yet if the BA should then find out the other person is Black, or just ignore the kill somehow...(Shaidar Haran tells them 'no' mysteriously as a Deus Ex Machina roleblock?).

[Mr. Flay]

Will any roles have vote-switching/negating capabilities? If not, it could work, but it just means your players will probably do their own vote counts. And I don't see how you can forbid that, since they can just do them offline, too.

If vote switching/negating/secret voting is in place, it will make it almost impossible to scumhunt during the Day.

[Mr. Flay]

Amazingly, a very similar setup worked once in Antrax Returns Mafia. Gambino, Soprano, Capone, and Corleone Mafias, of varying size and power. 1 Town Mayor (double-voter variant, immune to night actions). Jaguar made it to endgame, and could have won even then.

But yes, generally it's not Mafia, and it doesn't turn out very well.

[Mr. Flay]

Two NKs is too much; you're already penalizing town for not lynching.

At Dragon*Con, we used about 10-15 minutes for Day (subjectively). It certainly wasn't 5, but on the other hand we had about 9-10 people/game.

[Mr. Flay]

Sounds fun for Marathon Day; would probably play out a bit like the recent AITP games, as length of game is a detriment to your Win Condition (as town).

[Mr. Flay]

Town's best bet is probably to demand a nameclaim in the first post by each player. I don't think it's a good variant.

[Mr. Flay]

what if night powers worked only for those people who were on the last day's bandwagon?

We

are

too relutant to lynch, many times; but this encourages randomness and emphasizes the night game unhealthily.

Maybe if it was just "you must be voting at the end of Day", it might help some. They'd have to take

some

stand... (though late game, you get 'safe' votes on mod-confirmed people, or whatever).

[Mr. Flay]

I think it would be literally impossible to meaningfully lynch anybody, ever. What would you do,

Vote: Whoever posted #76

? Unworkable IMO.

[Mr. Flay]

(Simenon) My next logged-in post on mafiascum.net will be exactly 30 words long/start with the word "Absolutely"/be in the Title Thread. Then you'll know it's me.

It's not "talking out of thread" because the other post contains no content related to this game. There will always be a way to breadcrumb who you are if there's enough incentive to do so.