Manipulation, Bleed, Player-Characters, and the Purpose of Mafia

[usesPython]

We're gonna bring up something completely unrelated cause we think it's pretty relevant to what's happening here:

The asymmetric horror game Dead by Daylight suffers from the problem that optimal gameplay (i.e. gameplay that maximizes winrate) and fun gameplay don't align. On the killer side camping and tunneling are extremely effective strategies designed to turn the game from a 4v1 to a 3v1 as soon as possible. It's also very boring for pretty much everyone; 3 survivors do basically nothing and 1 survivor gets taken out of the game early. Additionally camping means that killers deprive themselves of the actually fun part of the game (chases) and basically go afk for 2 minutes.

The way to counter this playstyle on the survivor side is also extremely unfun: Survivors are forced to end the game as fast as possible by maximizing generator efficiency so that by the time the killer tunnels out one person the game is already over. This means that with optimal play 3 people are basically doing nothing the whole game.

This also creates a vicious feedback loop: If survivors aren't maximizing generator efficiency and the killer decides to camp and tunnel they will lose. If the killer decides to play chill and avoid camping and tunneling when going against survivors rushing gens they will lose. It's a prisoners dilemma. Both sides would have the most fun if they both played chill, but if one side is playing chill and the other is not then they'll have an even worse experience compared to both sides sweating from the start.

In an attempt to solve this problem the developers made two major changes: the first was giving survivors a 10 second grace period when they got unhooked so that they didn't just die immediately (and instead had time to make it to places where they could continue the chase without going down), the second was to implement a system that let survivors unhook themselves if they were being facecamped for long enough. They then rebalanced the game around these buffs with a variety of perk changes and basekit killer buffs


A similar thing is happening here: gaslighting can be an extremely effective tool for scum (and to a lesser extent town) but it can also be pretty toxic and unfun if it goes out of hand. Actually banning it would also simultaneously require a shift in how games are balanced to take into account scum being nerfed, otherwise you end up in a situation where maf enjoyers end up feeling cheated. Gut feeling this feels like where the pushback is coming from

[usesPython]

Alternatively you go the complete opposite route and get people to accept that gaslighting is just part of the game and isn't personal but that's probably a complete pipe dream

[usesPython]

On a personal level we'd prefer gaslighting is kept as a viable strategy because there's plenty of skill expression to be had in successfully gaslighting someone as well as resisting gaslighting from others

as long as players are prepared for it

. At most it should be decided at the ruleset level similar to how geriatric games were run here in an effort to deal with hyperposting. If people want to play in spaces without gaslighting, sure, give them the space for that. But there's also people who want to play games were gaslighting is acceptable and there should be the space for that too (as long as it's made clear that gaslighting is acceptable in that space so that players know to either avoid the game or be ready to be gaslit)

[usesPython]

1. psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's emotional or mental stability, and a dependency on the perpetrator.

Obviously, the first definition is a form of abuse that is obviously not acceptable and completely outside the scope of the game.

Hot take: That's a legitimate strategy that should be allowed as long as everyone playing agrees to it beforehand (i.e. it should be allowable on the ruleset level) since it introduces the additional skill ceiling of gaslighting, resisting gaslighting, and helping other townies resist gaslighting/helping your scumteam gaslight townies