Shell Game (Day 4)

[Lukewarm]

A Game!

VOTE: pooky

[Lukewarm]

Dunn made me chuckle on page 1, so I am legally obligated to never vote him this day phase.

[Lukewarm]

Jesus... is the site lagging super hard for anyone else?

[Lukewarm]

I see two problems with this so far.

And counting.

Penguin is townie even when he doesn't post

Noted, thanks, but not where the problems lie.

I am interested in your answer.

fwiw, every name on this list seems to be approximately where I would expect it to be coming from pooky at the moment I hit it lol

[Lukewarm]

Things of note:

Ydra's entrance vibed town for me.

I am liking Oblivion's questions at Firebagel, and am not liking firebagel's responses. But I think that I am liking Oblivions questions more then I am disliking bagel's responses.


I am also surprised by the fireisredsir fluff, and also surprised at the number of reads he churned out in 116 in response to being called out for fluff.

[Lukewarm]

My condolences.

[Lukewarm]

Hi Luke, are you enjoying this game so far?

I am not enjoying it, because reading the thread feels like pulling teeth right now. I am really prone to clicking on links in quotes, and it physically hurt me so much that I halfway abandoned it.

How spooked and demoralized are you that I've already identified your entire scum team?

But this I appreciated. Took all the guess work out of who to kill night 1. Not like anyone takes peoples day 1 reads seriously after they die anyways.

[Lukewarm]

Hi "I'm a miller", I'm Dad.

dad, I asked a question

[Lukewarm]

I've got townleans of various degrees on Firebagel, Pooky, Sunflower, Dunn, and Spiffeh.

I've got scumleans of various degrees on Shello, STD, Dan, and Morph.

Then we've also got confirmed scum Firepup.

Wow, didn't even make the cut to be mentioned.

[Lukewarm]

Oblivion I am loving your spunk

+1

[Lukewarm]

PookyTheMagicalBear
Oblivion
ActionDan
Firebagel
Brian Skies
Spiffeh

morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd)
Firebringer
Dunnstral
Gypyx
marcistar
Save The Dragons
Shello and Goodbye (Ydrasse & skitter30)
Sunflower (JupiterXV & fireisredsir)
SirCakez
Bingle
PenguinPower
Dannflor

Hermit Crab
Cat Scratch Fever
Lukewarm

I made the cut for this one, but wow. This is worse

[Lukewarm]

If it helps

Theres a like ..5..? Idk how to count! Person hood and we got info that suggests scums in the hood.

I am in a six person hood that is not Marci’s

Wow.

I did not know I needed to be offended by my non-neighborhood role pm, but now I am.

Curse you cehpir!

[Lukewarm]

I think saying 0 at all is crazy. I think the info bascially suggests theres at least 1, maybe more.

I mean it *could* be that scum have a "Join PT" pr, but starting with a member in there seems like the easier answer

[Lukewarm]

Also sunflower saying theres exactly 1 is a bit wonky but i think the "1 or 0" is farrr worse

I find marci's paranoia and handling of the hood info to be townie.

Gold star for marci

[Lukewarm]

Things of note:

Ydra's entrance vibed town for me.

I am liking Oblivion's questions at Firebagel, and am not liking firebagel's responses. But I think that I am liking Oblivions questions more then I am disliking bagel's responses.

I am also surprised by the fireisredsir fluff, and also surprised at the number of reads he churned out in 116 in response to being called out for fluff.

if i had to take a crack at it i think it’s the last part - it feels silly that he reiterated how surprised he felt as if it were a big deal and the word churned is ?_? to me here lol

I stand by surprised in both instances thank you very much.

When I started reading fire's posts, I seemed a little out of character for how I picture him, bit I also realized it's been a long time since I played with him, so I kinda just filed the thought away for later.

And when I hit that post, it felt like (flagrantly stealing this verbage from morph) tonal whiplash.

Given the timing, it also seemed reactionary to the people proding him for his fluffiness. The content of the reads also felt a bit weak, and it looked like he was padding out the reads to appease the haters.

That is where churned came in. Like he started the post with the idea "I need to put reads out because people are prodding me," and came up with the reads as he wrote the post. As opposed to just expressing the reads he had been developing.

I was still mulling over whether or not I thought town!fire would also feel the need to put out reads if he felt like people were starting to suspect him over his content, which is why I didn't go from calling it surprising -> calling it scummy.

The point about scum fire being able to churn out a better reads list if he felt like he needed to does ring true a little.

[Lukewarm]

My thoughts so far:

Sunflower in post 13 struck me the wrong way as I wasn't expecting that post from fireisredsir, and then they had a lot of filler type posts. They then call me towny and I'm not sure what they are basing that off of either with the 4 posts I had before.

ActionDan's post 86 rubs me the wrong way because I don't agree and don't know how they reached their conclusions. Perhaps they can explain.

Sunflower is because of forces outside the main thread. I will not explain that at this time, but may before the day is through.

Firebagel was because as an alt that may very well only exist for the purpose of stealing Firebringer's scum claiming gimmick, it hadn't posted for a page.

OK. Why is not posting for a page scummy?

People who engage in gimmicks like that place a high priority on RVS banter to form early reads. If they do not post while the iron is hot, the utility disappears as well.

---

I see our neighborhood has been outed. At first glance this worry from Maristar looks planned and manufactured. And with the goodfellas award I am discarding this as an oversensitive townie

VOTE: Maristar

Secondly CSF earns a permanent FOS for the Miller claim for this particular game alone.

Have you played with Marci before?

[Lukewarm]

Things of note:

Ydra's entrance vibed town for me.

I am liking Oblivion's questions at Firebagel, and am not liking firebagel's responses. But I think that I am liking Oblivions questions more then I am disliking bagel's responses.

I am also surprised by the fireisredsir fluff, and also surprised at the number of reads he churned out in 116 in response to being called out for fluff.

if i had to take a crack at it i think it’s the last part - it feels silly that he reiterated how surprised he felt as if it were a big deal and the word churned is ?_? to me here lol

I stand by surprised in both instances thank you very much.

When I started reading fire's posts, I seemed a little out of character for how I picture him, bit I also realized it's been a long time since I played with him, so I kinda just filed the thought away for later.

And when I hit that post, it felt like (flagrantly stealing this verbage from morph) tonal whiplash.

Given the timing, it also seemed reactionary to the people proding him for his fluffiness. The content of the reads also felt a bit weak, and it looked like he was padding out the reads to appease the haters.

That is where churned came in. Like he started the post with the idea "I need to put reads out because people are prodding me," and came up with the reads as he wrote the post. As opposed to just expressing the reads he had been developing.

I was still mulling over whether or not I thought town!fire would also feel the need to put out reads if he felt like people were starting to suspect him over his content, which is why I didn't go from calling it surprising -> calling it scummy.

The point about scum fire being able to churn out a better reads list if he felt like he needed to does ring true a little.

yeah okay i do think that's fair. in the last game which just finished recently midsummer i noted that sunflower was playing more sociable than i expected and it was because they were wolfing so i don't inherently think that's a bad thing to pressure on as previously stated

i don't have a strong mental Picture of Lukewarm but it felt like calling things repeatedly surprising was.. wrong i guess, idk if i expect you to have a bit more sureness or bite to how you approach posts and that was more of a softball like you were being timid

I feel like I have more bite once I have a bone to chase down, but I'm still getting the lay of the land at this point

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: actiondan

[Lukewarm]

What were your
reads of the listed players when you saw the list?

I feel like answering this question stops my line of questioning from being useful to me, but I pinky promise to respond to this after.

I kind of just want to know which two names did you object to, and why

[Lukewarm]

The more I think about how Marci handled the hoods, the more I want to just town bin her for the rest of the game.

[Lukewarm]

I am in a six person hood that is not Marci’s

Spiff does your hood also have an ominous mod message? Or is that localized to Marci's

[Lukewarm]

If anyone else was wondering, there does not appear to be any overlap between the hoods.

Spoiler:

myself[Spiffeh], Dunnstral, Hermit Crab, Bingle, SirCakez, and Firebringer if that hasn’t been said already

Myself[Marci], actiondan, sunflower, klick and dragons i think is all

[Lukewarm]

I want to say town i reqlly do but last time i townread someone who protected me it all turned out very wrong

I don't think that me expressing a town read on you when you have one (1) vote on you can really even be called protecting you lol.

I just town read you

[Lukewarm]

You're voting Action Dan, at least in part over his reaction to marci's neighborhood related posts. Do you expect him to know her towngame well enough not to have that reaction?

I actually planned on waiting for the answer to 232 before voting, but then a wagon formed, and I wanted to feel included

[Lukewarm]

Your answer kinda answers your question. Why are you so curious about this?

I am trying to figure out why you ended up responding to that reads list seriously. Like I think that that reads list voiced between 0 to two (MAX) actual reads in in, so seeing you respond to it seriously raised questions.

For reference, Pooky's reads list was:
-The three people pooky bantered with about being/claiming scum on page 1 in the scum pile (15, 17, 20)
-Firebringer in the highest possible town pile, as consistent with the dynamic between the two, where firebringer claims scum, and pooky calls him lock town, and firebringer pretends to be offended that pooky could even consider that a possibility. This played out in this very game before the reads list.
-PenguinPower, who has made 0 posts, in town. Once again, this appears to be a Pooky+PP dynamic, as I am like 90% sure I have seen pooky say basically the same thing as fb's 80.

That leaves the only two that had any chance of having *any* substance behind them being the STD and the Ydra/skitter hydra reads.

I am not familiar with pooky having a dynamic with them like the PP or FB one, so that is where I see the possibility of 0-2 actual reads being expressed here, but overall this just seems like the culmination of his early banter.

So seeing you respond, with specific critiques, made me wonder how you got there.

[Lukewarm]

You're voting Action Dan, at least in part over his reaction to marci's neighborhood related posts. Do you expect him to know her towngame well enough not to have that reaction?

I actually planned on waiting for the answer to 232 before voting, but then a wagon formed, and I wanted to feel included

This doesn't answer my question. Or I'm being obtuse.

You asked if I expected him to know how she plays. I pointed out that I am currently awaiting the answer to that very question.

I think that the way he framed his vote was scummy regardless of his experience with her but that answer could strengthen/weaken my conviction.

[Lukewarm]

i think pooky would actually genuinely scumread people off page 1-2 rvs banter

This may be true that he has started gathering reads, but there is no way that that list reflected that. That list was still locked into the banter.

I might believe that it was serious if there was some variance, but he literally put all three of the people he called scum by post 20 into the scum pile, and zero other players.

[Lukewarm]

revisiting this i think if dan is a wolf it's very funny to reference someone's goodfellas award to bolster a vote

That was probably my least favorite part of that post tbh

[Lukewarm]

specific?

You had an exact number of name placements you were disagreeing with.

You've put some thought into matching Pooky's list to what was going on during the first few pages. I think you know me as a player about as well as you do Pooky. How does my taking partial exception to Pooky's list fit with your understanding of my playstyle?

I don't know. It seemed unaware of the content of pooky's prior posts in a way that seemed particularly out of character for you. I was worried that it could be that you are scum, and was hoping to get you to voice what lead you to making that post, so I could judge that instead of trying to just guess at how you got there, but it feels like you have been dancing around that question.

[Lukewarm]

Not that I think you would be unaware as scum. But that the content might not influence the directions you take as much.

So, the "post" seemed unaware. Not necessarily that "you" seemed unaware.

[Lukewarm]

Well, I got what I wanted out of this convo, and so did Cabd. Consider your day 3 ticket punched.

I feel like I have been bamboozled in this conversation some how

[Lukewarm]

I regret to inform everyone (especially firebringer) that I believe firebringer to be town

[Lukewarm]

luke my boy who do you think is mafia rn im too lazy to look at the vote count

I'm currently on Actiondan.

[Lukewarm]

I think that the following players have achieved a day 1 pass from me so far:

morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd)
Firebringer
marcistar
Oblivion
Save The Dragons
Ydrasse
Cat Scratch Fever

Sorted by playerlist order, not strength of read. Although, I think that Marci is the only one that has a greater then day 1 pass atm.

[Lukewarm]

imitation is the greatest form of flattery, or so ive heard, so youre welcome

[Lukewarm]

I actually had a drawing I made of my cat as my avatar a while back

[Lukewarm]

Can I ask why for players other than Marci here?

morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd) -- the way that ffery uno reverse carded my questioning in order to instead get a read on me jedi mind tricked me into thinking she could be town.

Firebringer -- I liked the dichotomy presented in 384, where he shot down the assertion that you have been tonally off this game, but then doubled down on the fact that he is leaning scum on you for unrelated reasons. I also agree with his tonal take fwiw, your tone has seemed innocuous to me.

marcistar

Oblivion -- I liked the way it jumped into serious questioning early, and liked the prods being made. I also liked the way it prodded at people town reading it. And just its general tone while rebuffing CSF's suspicions.

Save The Dragons -- probably the silliest one, and one I would have left unsaid and just waited for newer and better reasons to town/scum read them if not asked, but it was him leaving a wagon with the naked morph vote, followed by 365 saying it was just for funzies. My heart said that that was town.

Ydrasse -- I still vibe with her opening post being townie, her immediate suspicion on me reminded me of our last game together where she was suspicious of me for giving her early town points for *vibes,* and then our back and forth on fireisred sir felt right.

Cat Scratch Fever -- Miller claim + I liked the way they questioned Oblivion, even if I disagreed with it, it looked kinda genuine to me.

[Lukewarm]

Also is skitter30 still on the table?

Yes.

[Lukewarm]

The pookys readlist? Animal crew? Clearly jokes why is it 3ven being debated.

to be fair, the conversation about pooky's readlist was not actually about pooky or his reads list

[Lukewarm]

Thumbs up. Do you think miller claims are more likely to come from town?

yes. I have yet to see a miller claim flip mafia. Not even in the game where there was a miller counter claim lol.

I would not give the claim on its own to carry the read past like day 1, but its enough for now. Plus I have kinda liked their posting since then too, so

[Lukewarm]

also marci why do you keep reiterating that you're scared specifically
i think worried maybe is like "reasonable" i guess to me but repeatedly saying that youre scared is ?_? a bit to me
or is it just hyperbole

p-edit VOTE: marcistar

I think I have seen marci use the phrase "I'm so scared" more times then I could possibly count lol

In games, in scum chats, in discord conversations, ect

She just be saying that.

[Lukewarm]

I... actually think that the last like 2 pages of posts from marci, I would be a bit suspicious of.

But I feel really good about the way that she opened the game with the hoods, so I am still leaning town, but maybe not "townbin for the rest of the game" confident anymore

[Lukewarm]

I... actually think that the last like 2 pages of posts from marci, I would be a bit suspicious of.

But I feel really good about the way that she opened the game with the hoods, so I am still leaning town, but maybe not "townbin for the rest of the game" confident anymore

If u sr me do it with ur whole chest not just ur bellybutton.

That is an overall town read that you are responding to bestie.

[Lukewarm]

It turns out only my two votes are on actiondan at this point

[Lukewarm]

At the time

I felt like Luke was a little too accepting of Morph as Town after that interaction

Like "yay Morph is townreading me now let me return the favor so they get off my back"

At what point did you think this?

[Lukewarm]

Your interaction with Luke felt like that thing you do in your town games where you engage with someone you potentially suspect heavily to either cement or shake yourself out of the read.

It's why I felt your slot came out townier in that exchange.

This is literally the opposite of what happened lol

*I* engaged with *them* because they did something that I potentially suspected.

At no point did I think that they were scum reading me. I felt like I started at Null

[Lukewarm]

I am confused on what could have been said in the hood, where they are seemingly confident has a scum in it, that is then beneficial to not transfer over. Scum already have that info, no?

[Lukewarm]

I refuse to believe that Pooky doesn't know exactly what is going on here with all of the clues. This is like "help dora the explorer figure out which train to ride" level of easy given everything itt already.

I did not put together what is happening until reading this post, but I think I now understand.

[Lukewarm]

deathy

yeah, that

[Lukewarm]

Okay we’re just outting it, fan fucking tastic

You do realize that the entire premise of a dethy is that there is a scum in there, so we are not "outing" anything to the scum team. They knew before anyone outside of the dethy knew.

[Lukewarm]

Morph, would a goon placed into a dethy hood be informed that they are in dethy hood?

[Lukewarm]

Morph, would a goon placed into a dethy hood be informed that they are in dethy hood?

Traditionally? Unsure.

WIth this mod? Yes.

I actually looked back that the game yall linked, and in that game the mafia in the dethy was given a fake claim that also spelled out what was happening.

[Lukewarm]

It would be super powerful for a goon to be able to tell their team who the cops of unknown sanities are, though. Not sure how to balance something like that.

I see. The wiki called for a goon in the dethy, but now I realize that it was for a 5 man job, so this did not matter.

[Lukewarm]

It would be super powerful for a goon to be able to tell their team who the cops of unknown sanities are, though

So, uh, would you say that that would incentivize a traitor to out the full list of people in the hood to the main thread...?

[Lukewarm]

It would be super powerful for a goon to be able to tell their team who the cops of unknown sanities are, though

So, uh, would you say that that would incentivize a traitor to out the full list of people in the hood to the main thread...?

Possibly. But the thing about a deAthy is that it pretty much never stays under wraps. I would expect anyone who has played with one before to not worry about it. But if they were new to the concept, yes, I could see an urgency to start talking about it while also hinting that it is one to the main thread.

My issue is that the mental math I did to townbin Marci was on the basis that if she was mafia, that would mean she was a full member of the mafia, in a 5 man (non-dethy) hood, who needed to live x number of nights to help out her team. And in that position, I absolutely do not think that she would out her hood, and declare that we should kill someone in the hood. I don't think that she would want to take on that fight, and it seems to serve only to make her more likely to die before reward time.

But the math changes once we add the possibility of a traitor who wants to out their info to the main squad.

And I kinda feel like the whole foundation of my marci read is crumbling around me.

[Lukewarm]

It would be super powerful for a goon to be able to tell their team who the cops of unknown sanities are, though

So, uh, would you say that that would incentivize a traitor to out the full list of people in the hood to the main thread...?

Two games isn't a ton of experience, but that's not what I've seen two traitors do in my dethy games. One traitor arguably played terribly though.

I'm trying to think more "writ large", but it kinda feels like staring into a hall of mirrors.

Im not thinking in large terms. Im thinking in marci terms atm.

[Lukewarm]

Myself, actiondan, sunflower, klick and dragons i think is all

CSF is not in the dethy

[Lukewarm]

Also sunflower saying theres exactly 1 is a bit wonky but i think the "1 or 0" is farrr worse

@sunflower

When you said exactly 1, had you already figured out that it was a dethy?

[Lukewarm]

Its just: The Police Department

and marci didnt realize it was full of cops, smh.

[Lukewarm]

anyone outside the hood and not exceedingly bored right now is scum

Why did you feel town would be bored by the curtain parting on the dethy?

There was a small moment between "suck it guys, all the cool kids are solving in the hood now" and "oh, its a dethy!" where I kinda vibed with that Dann post.

I actually typed out a "It sure feels nice to spectate a game" post, before deleting it.

[Lukewarm]

anyone outside the hood and not exceedingly bored right now is scum

Why did you feel town would be bored by the curtain parting on the dethy?

There was a small moment between "suck it guys, all the cool kids are solving in the hood now" and "oh, its a dethy!" where I kinda vibed with that Dann post.

I actually typed out a "It sure feels nice to spectate a game" post, before deleting it.

I'm actually kinda enjoying being on the outside and watching the other outside reactions for once. Being a participant-observer is a blessing and a curse.

I was more just giving myself as an example of a townie having a similar thought at around the same moment as dann put that into the thread.

For reference.

[Lukewarm]

There is a lot to dive into here, but this post has a very interesting mentality. It is going to take a few guesses which have every possibility to be wrong, but you come across as paranoid or afraid here. How can it explain... like if you were staring down the barrel of something you have a healthy fear and respect for arguing that another thing in the distance isn't being given enough respect or concern for its threat either?

I have no idea what you are saying here, at least in how it relates to me?

My approach to Morph started at mild suspicion at ffery's response to pooky's, but wanted to get them to talk more about that reaction before making that obvious, with a lighthearted / inquisitive tone for 129.

When ffery first sidestepped the question, I decided to make it more direct that I thought that her answer could prove valuable to me, to pivot us back to my question 287.

When she sidestepped again, I realized that I was not getting the answer that I wanted, and so I decided to just lay some of the foundation of why I started asking questions 317 to force a dialogue.

Her response was to keep asking me probing questions about what I was getting at. At that point I figured I simply wasn't going to get a straight answer, so I laid it out there that I thought it might mean she was scum 326.

And then cabd and ffery both promptly declared me town, and ffery gave me a straight answer (although a fairly unsatisfactory one) 334.

I realized that she had uno reverse carded me, and even though I had started the conversation trying to get a better feel for her alignment, her entire focus during that conversation was to gauge the thoughts behind my line of questioning to determine my alignment. And she is the one who got what she wanted.

After thinking about it for a while, I ended up thinking that that seems like a town mindset, because it looks like she was more worried about divining my alignment then she cared about how I read her at any stage of our dialogue.

Can you elaborate on what your mental model of Morph and Pooky as players are is? For reference, that is simply how you view their playstyles, capabilities, talents, failings and such, and your confidence level in being able to interpret them for a correct result a % of the time with this knowledge.

This is a fairly loaded set of questions, that I don't really know how to answer, other then to just say that I think all three are really good players, as both alignments.

[Lukewarm]

You truly don't understand what it is asking? Of course it's loaded, it intended for it to be loaded. The goal was that you think. It... mmm.

I think I could only answer your question, as asked, succinctly if I had a very rigid view of other people's play.

And because I do not have a short succienct way to encapsulate "their playstyles, capabilities, talents, failings and such" for all three people in question, I would end up writing essays if I actually attempted to give you an answer that feels satisfactory to me for the question asked.

So: yeah "I think all three of them are really great players" is the best youre gonna get with such an open ended question.

[Lukewarm]

Luke's confusion and... unwillingness to engage with our desire to drag info from him was a little off putting but also notably more likely to come from a townie who doesn't care.

I guess I didn't come at our conversation how you wanted me to, but I did come at it trying to engage with and help you. Like, that was the entire purpose behind me offering you a play by play of my interaction with morph.

I was offering a look into my thought process, my impression of what morph was doing in that exchange, and my conclusions on what that meant for their alignment.

None of that helped me any, and I hoped it would help you see both me and my thoughts on morph's alignment more clearly, so I wrote it out.

[Lukewarm]

You're not openly forthcoming. Your cards are held and it is trying to hack your brain and you're denying it. That is how it feels.

I am used to the average impression of me being that I am someone who dumps all thoughts into the thread. So this is certainly a novel take.

From my POV, it feels like you asked me a question that is functionally not answerable, and then view me as being stubborn by not answering. I think we have fundamentally different ways of thinking about other players, and that is just a barrier that exists that is independent to my willingness to share my thoughts.

[Lukewarm]

You're not openly forthcoming. Your cards are held and it is trying to hack your brain and you're denying it. That is how it feels.

I am used to the average impression of me being that I am someone who dumps all thoughts into the thread. So this is certainly a novel take.

From my POV, it feels like you asked me a question that is functionally not answerable, and then view me as being stubborn by not answering. I think we have fundamentally different ways of thinking about other players, and that is just a barrier that exists that is independent to my willingness to share my thoughts.

Perhaps. May it attempt to explain one more time what it is looking for?

From what I gathered, you wanted me to write out my mental model on those players. But I don't generally think of players in particularly concrete ways, such that I can just whip out a solid description.

My mental models are amorphous, ephemeral, shifting. I take a gaseous mental model, and place it into a solid container of context, and only then does it start having a true shape.

If I were to try to nail down a more generic mental model, devoid of the containers, on any of the players, I would probably need a week per player, and I would likely have to back reading multiple games to get my bearings.

If you have specific questions, I am happy to try to answer, but if you leave it as open ended as you did, and it feels like you are asking for my Treatise de Fferyllt (or Cabd, or Pooky), it is not something that I am capable of producing for you.

[Lukewarm]

they expect me to read them correctly, so if they are town, they would expect town!me to get to a point where I think they're town, they would also expect scum!me to get to a point where I think they're town in order to obfuscate my alignment. They would not expect me to fake a scumread and push them because I'm too lazy for that shit.

It... what? What? huh?

It does not understand this logic remotely. How is it not possible you would misread them ever?

For this topic, I will attest that in exactly every game that I have seen both pooky and morph exist in, pooky has claimed to have a perfect read rate on morph.

Whether you think that it is a reasonable believe for him to have or not, this is a Pooky constant.

But I am gonna go to bed, and bow out from the larger discussion here.

[Lukewarm]

morph you know what would really annoy me

is if this game wasnt a dethy and it was just 5 random sanity town cops thrown in a hood and you just decided it was a dethy and the real shell game was the scum conning us into thinking this is a dethy and its not really a dethy

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=84557

cuz like im looking back at fakegod's dethy and its pretty explicitly stated that its a dethy but here we don't actually have an explicit statement that we're playing dethy.

and if the entire scum team is laughing at you doing this and we're going down this rabbit hole I'm gonna be so annoyed.

Would this make the mod message that if there is scum in the game x days from now, they scum team get a prize, just a pure mod misdirect in this world view?

[Lukewarm]

in the hood*

[Lukewarm]

im curious on lukes read on the pooky x oblivion since he looks like he was around for it..?

My take on it, as always when clashes like that happen, is that sorting from it feels icky, so I am gonna generally pretend that it didn't happen.

[Lukewarm]

my main point is that "there is exactly one scum in this hood" is a very dangerous assumption to make because it can really fuck us if its simply not true

I actually think that if the mod was doing a bait and switch on us, it would mean that there are actually 2 members of the mafia in the dethy instead of 1.

I still think that 1 is the most likely option by far, but 0 feels like the least likely option to me.

[Lukewarm]

On one hand I feel like I need to reread this game to get a solid scum read of my own, and on the other hand I want to just wait for morph to do all the work for me and break out their super duper color coded entire player list read list

But either way, I don't currently know where I want my vote to be, and it feels stale where it is.

[Lukewarm]

On one hand I feel like I need to reread this game to get a solid scum read of my own, and on the other hand I want to just wait for morph to do all the work for me and break out their super duper color coded entire player list read list

But either way, I don't currently know where I want my vote to be, and it feels stale where it is.

You that confident morph is town?

I do think that morph is town, but that post was not to say that I wanted the reads list to blindly sheep. But I wanted their eventual Sych-Achieved Cases to look at to determine which I agree with and which I don't, because that becomes a much more manageable amount of work to determine who I want to kill in a game of this size.

[Lukewarm]

On one hand I feel like I need to reread this game to get a solid scum read of my own, and on the other hand I want to just wait for morph to do all the work for me and break out their super duper color coded entire player list read list

But either way, I don't currently know where I want my vote to be, and it feels stale where it is.

You that confident morph is town?

I do think that morph is town, but that post was not to say that I wanted the reads list to blindly sheep. But I wanted their eventual Sych-Achieved Cases to look at to determine which I agree with and which I don't, because that becomes a much more manageable amount of work to determine who I want to kill in a game of this size.

Did you read its interaction with them where it asked for top 3 town and top scum?

Yes, and I already agreed with their town reads.

Their reason on Spiff for the "cred trade" did nothing for me.

And their klick/sunflower comment was made, but not expounded upon.

Once they finally decide who they want to kill, I am expecting an annotated bibliography on why their top scum reads are scum, which is more what I was saying I was looking forward to.

[Lukewarm]

I was scum reading action dan at the time (this read has mellowed with time), and it still did not resonate with me.

[Lukewarm]

I’m saying this now so no one can steal it from me before I can get back to my computer and act like they thought of it first:

I’m not townreading Shello and Goodbye
Or Lukewarm
Or Pooky (this one’s not that special)

One might call them “the big three”

Sunflower remains to be seen when I can properly read what I’ve only skimmed but I’m sad no one followed me onto them, I was proud of my page six case

Spiff, what did you mean when you called us "the big three" here?

[Lukewarm]

I was scum reading action dan at the time (this read has mellowed with time), and it still did not resonate with me.

Luke, can you talk about your current reads?

This prompted me to do start doing isos, but I am not getting through them today. So far I got Actiondan -> Gypyx -> Gypyx -> Spiff, but that is probably all Im getting to tonight.

Spoiler: Actiondan

Reading actiondan's iso actually left me leaning town, which is not exactly what I expected going in.

I think that his suspicion on Marci actually makes a little more sense now, knowing what we know about the hood, and because I saw that he did answer my question and has never played with her. I also feel like this

This kind of player is anathema to me. She projects an aura of incompetentance when I dont think she really is and injects her posts with being LOUD

recontexualizes this abit more

At first glance this worry from Maristar looks planned and manufactured. And with the goodfellas award I am discarding this as an oversensitive townie

And with that recontextualization. I buy it more, and its a nice consistency point.

I also think that his insistence that a miller absolutely does not make any sense in the setup is the thing that really said town to me. It rings as a True Thought to me.

Spoiler: gypyx

Gypyx - Looking back, seeing them mess up the hood-scum reward in 344 feels like a townslip.

I don't see how scum legitimately see a statement that scum get a reward for being in the hood, and mixes that up with town getting a reward for killing scum in the hood.

I did not actually have a lot of other alignment thoughts about them across their whole iso, but I really liked that thought.

Spoiler: firebagel

Firebagel - Looking back, I actually hate 106.

283feels like the kind of easy thing scum look for to poke at, and does not even come with a alignment comment on Spiff. Just poking at word choice.

Something about 349 feels fake to me.

I also feel like her interactions with the dethy reveal 993, 1016, 1036 felt like posts of an outside observer, rather then someone whose wincon necessitates needing in figuring things out.

(On the townie side, I did like their town read on Oblivion in 282).

Spoiler: Spiff

Spiff - I like his page 6sunflower case. I also found it townie that he quoted it to bring it to page top. Like a lot.

I also kinda liked the instead hood claim after Marci's hood claim.

There is something about 898 that I find townie.

I also like that when Spiff looked back at his high posting, there is both a backtrack on his claim against me and a double down on his take about actiondan. Like he established he was not posting at 100%, and was looking back, but chose to double down on the one that was actually making people suspect him. It further helps that when I was looking back at actiondan's iso,I thought the same thing.

And I liked his willingness to instant read drop on klick with 1404.

So that is a town lean for Actiondan, Gypyx, and Spiff -- and a scum read for firebagel.

VOTE: firebagel

I started to list out my full town reads, and realized I might have too many. >.<

Before starting these isos, I was at:

Marci, Crab
morph, oblivion
CSF, Pooky, Ydra,

All as town of varying strengths, so adding Actiondan, Gypyx, and Spiff feels like too many. But that is not a problem that I will be able to address tonight.

My pre-iso concerns were

actiondan

, klick, sunflower, but very little confidence in any of them. I do feel like I need to look back at Klick and Sunflower's exchange from earlier, it struck me as an exchange I should be able to discern alignment from, but did not give up its secrets on the first pass.

[Lukewarm]

doing isos

Do me! Do me!

You are the reason why after I started alphabetically with actiondan, I then promptly realized that doing the whole playlist alphabetically would not help me lol.

[Lukewarm]

What about me?

I do not have a read on you. I was actually surprised by morph having you in their strong town reads list earlier, because I understood why everyone else was there, and you were sitting right at true null where everyone starts the game. No post had pushed you in either direction

You probably deserve an iso read tbh.

[Lukewarm]

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Wait how do you know there are hoods plural?

p-edit: oh, maybe

I was not sure what to think about the claim, but yeah him voting 2 posts later made me assume that the claim was a joke.

[Lukewarm]

@Luke can you unpack your Shello townread for me? What am I missing?

I would say that of the 10 people I listed as being on the town spectrum, Ydra is the weakest read, so I am not really at a point of trying to convince anyone of the read.

But I did like her approach and interaction with me. Her suspicion on me, when they came, were reasonable, and her direct interaction with me did not feel like it had an agenda, and her change in read felt natural, especially because her change in read was first stated in thread when it would have benefited scum!yrda from feeding into your own suspicions of me.

[Lukewarm]

Luke pinged me, need to explore -> i think for a while when i was skimming i thought he was in the sunflower hydra and was getting them confused so i think i need to reread this

Things i want to further explore/read closer:
~ how marci revealed the hood
~luke iso

I'm kinda underwhelmed by luke i think

~ skitter

Luke's 1019 also quite townie

Hi Skitter!

Want to walk me through your process on reading me?

What did you read that led you to say that you were underwhelmed by me? Give the first quote, I had assumed you did an iso on me, but given the 3rd quote it seems like you did not see 1019 until later?

[Lukewarm]

So at the time of writing 1772, you were at "underwhelmed, but still leaning town" ?

[Lukewarm]

No, just underwhelmed , had written it at the start of the reread / before I saw 1019

@ luke

~ skitter

:thumbs up:

I was kinda balking at seeing myself listed as "is pinging me" followed by "underwhelming," but then came to mind when asked

I’m also curious if you could unpack your other townreads

But this is a reasonable enough explanation, and looking back it after you said this, it kind of tracks with the greater context of the post where you called me underwhelming

[Lukewarm]

Luke what time will you be avaliable at? I wanna chat <3

I'm around, whats up bestie?

[Lukewarm]

If you'd rather schedule a real time chat for when you are not working, I'm down for that too.

[Lukewarm]

I was kinda curious about you saying that you liked my wall post.

Like I read it as a "I think that it looks townie"

But I am curious what you think about the actual substance of it.

[Lukewarm]

And that can be open to other people, because I dont think a single person has engaged with the substance of it. >.<

[Lukewarm]

1737

[Lukewarm]

Reading actiondan's iso actually left me leaning town,

which is not exactly what I expected going in.

While i dont agree i think the ending part is something you dont specifically have to tack on so it seems townie imo.

I also think that his insistence that a miller absolutely does not make any sense in the setup is the thing that really said town to me. It rings as a True Thought to me.

This specifically too. Idk why tho.

Looking back, seeing them mess up the hood-scum reward in 344 feels like a townslip.

+ thought
Also something i didnt even notice happened.

Firebagel read has good substance, ive seen srs on them earlier but i never like actually understood.

The tr on spiffey is also good. I did not think instant hoodclaim after mine was a good reason to tr them but the more i think about it!!

I feel like you are approaching this with a lens of what it means for my alignment, when I am actually asking you to tell me if they have swayed your reads to agree with me, or if you disagree with any of them and why

[Lukewarm]

ffery, I did homework for you.

Plz don't join the crowd of people who have not given me any indication that they even read it

[Lukewarm]

I'm just waiting for someone to come tell me that one (or more!) of my assessments is bad, dumb, or wrong (and why!)

But no one has.

Maybe I did this to myself by using spoiler tags.

[Lukewarm]

I don't agree on a couple of your reads, which should be obvious

Yeah, after I put it out, I looked back at your reads list and realized that our reads were opposite on all 4.

Firebagel being the only one I called scum, which firebagel is the only one you put above the dividing line.

That is part of why I am interesting in seeing your PoV

But I can wait for you guys to synch.

[Lukewarm]

Yeah, I’m not really sure where people townreading gypyx are getting it other than Fferys (?) townslip angle

You did read my post!

[Lukewarm]

I'm just waiting for someone to come tell me that one (or more!) of my assessments is bad, dumb, or wrong (and why!)

But no one has.

Maybe I did this to myself by using spoiler tags.

i agree with bagel ad spiff

i think gypyx is kinda scummy

Do you give any weight to the mix up?

Gypyx's play overall is a little underwhelming, but not in a way that I felt was strongly scum indicative.

But I do really feel like that mistake showed that she is thinking about the game in town terms in stead of in scum terms.

Like, she read this

At a predetermined point, if any of the players in my hood are mafia. Something that helps mafia happens?

And just internalized "It is good for us if we get the scum out of that hood"

Which then translated into we get a benefit if we kill the scum when done via recall later.

But I don't think that that actually makes a lot of sense in the other direction, if she is scum. I don't think that to swap it around to town getting a benefit would not be a natural mis-remembering.

[Lukewarm]

Yeah, I’m not really sure where people townreading gypyx are getting it other than Fferys (?) townslip angle

You did read my post!

I did but I had to focus on breaking up marci and oblivion. I plan to do some in depth work at some point once I’m finished with my homework in the final week of class (read: maybe tonight depending how efficient I am)

I just said that because I am the one that presented the gypyx townslip angle lol

[Lukewarm]

Firebagel - Looking back, I actually hate 106.

283feels like the kind of easy thing scum look for to poke at, and does not even come with a alignment comment on Spiff. Just poking at word choice.

Something about 349 feels fake to me.

I also feel like her interactions with the dethy reveal 993, 1016, 1036 felt like posts of an outside observer, rather then someone whose wincon necessitates needing in figuring things out.

(On the townie side, I did like their town read on Oblivion in 282).

ok reading this i feel like you've made a case for why stuff from firebagel *can* come from scum but not really why it *does* comes from scum

I think the closest thing you have here is the "outside observer" stuff but I think I'm kinder to that because I have felt like an outside oberserver for a large part of this game and I'm not sure it's really alignment indicative and maybe just more indicative of the type of stuff that interests a particular player

I was not stating that the things could come from scum, so much as I expect it to be more likely to come from scum.

106 is deflecty, in a way that reads to me as self conscious. Focused on undercutting the point being made by morph, rather then engaging with morph.

283 is finding something to poke at, which serves the purpose of looking like you are solving, but it missed the part where it actually sorted.

349 did not read as natural, so much as a post that is designed to look like what the poster thinks their town self would think about the game.

[Lukewarm]

349 did not read as natural, so much as a post that is designed to look like what the poster thinks their town self would think about the game.

In general, I feel like scum are more likely to make "oh woah is me, the mod decided to include mechanics into this game" posts early in the game

[Lukewarm]

i had a dream last night that actiondan was scum.

That is a pretty solid case.

[Lukewarm]

While I don't think that I am particularly swayed by Dann's bagel posting, I do get town vibes from dann from the conversation .

[Lukewarm]

Do you give any weight to the mix up?

I do not

I mostly read gypyx by how comfortable she is interacting with the thread and she doesn't feel nearly as comfortable from what I remember in dance game

I guess there can be some meta things that I am missing, I think that the only game I have ever played with her was touhou, which was an anon game, so dont actually have any experience in how she plays on her main.

[Lukewarm]

She was reisen in dancegame tho

~ skitter

Skitter, I am confused.

I am assuming that dance game and touhou are different games.

But Reisen was an anon account for touhou

But also, Gypyx was not Reisen in that game. She was Kagerou, right?

[Lukewarm]

She was reisen in dancegame tho

~ skitter

Skitter, I am confused.

I am assuming that dance game and touhou are different games.

But Reisen was an anon account for touhou

But also, Gypyx was not Reisen in that game. She was Kagerou, right?

To clarify: crab hydra is saying she's playing like reisen from touhou (i.e. barely around and giving vague attempts at content once in a while) -> reisen was scum. It's less that i think she's reisen so much as reisen can be thought of as an arctype for meh utr scum

And she isn't playing like the town self we saw in touhou (kagerou)

I'm saying in the dance game (kemusun (sp?)) she was town and played similarly to how scum reisen played in touhou
So the fact that her play here looks like that of a 'reisen-type' scumgame isn't so meaningul to me

I missed that crab post, which does make your comment make more sense lol

Did the dance game come after the touhou game?

[Lukewarm]

Do you have the link?

[Lukewarm]

Yeah i was just grabbing it, here

viewtopic.php?t=92281

I read the first ~40 posts in Gypyx's iso for that game, then rescanned her iso for this game, and I think that it actually made me feel worse about her then before I read.

But I still really like my "slip" point, and I am not sure I am ready to let it go. So gonna ponder.

[Lukewarm]

He uh... left, didn't he?

omg, I am reading through, and every single post that was not a cakez post made me think this exact through

[Lukewarm]

Luke we have a new slip keep up

Im caught up, skitter linked me a shiny game, and I was distracted!

[Lukewarm]

I have a bit of concern that it took Cakez 12 minutes to respond to the pooky's raised eyebrow.

Yeah...

This was his time between posts leading up to it

1 min
3 min
1 min
7 min (Slip accusation)
13 mins to respond.

[Lukewarm]

The amount of time it takes to re-read the past few pages and figure out how you would have known, vs the amount of time you can instantly reply with how you knew.

Although, I am having like weird de ja vu of ffery telling me that I took too long to answer a question once before.

[Lukewarm]

The amount of time it takes to re-read the past few pages and figure out how you would have known, vs the amount of time you can instantly reply with how you knew.

Although, I am having like weird de ja vu of ffery telling me that I took too long to answer a question once before.

was ffery scum

No, we were both town

[Lukewarm]

The amount of time it takes to re-read the past few pages and figure out how you would have known, vs the amount of time you can instantly reply with how you knew.

Although, I am having like weird de ja vu of ffery telling me that I took too long to answer a question once before.

That's because I notice pregnant pauses.

I think that might have been day 1 of Isekai involving you and unwnd.

Yeah, that was the game I was thinking of. Although it was Notty who asked the reaction test question (to be fair, unwnd's name was included in the reaction test lol)

[Lukewarm]

I popped in after being away for a while, and Notty said something like:

"unwnd revealed he got a day cop guilty on you"

[Lukewarm]

I don't know why I spent so long hunting down the ffery quote, but I did.

De ja vu indeed

Spoiler:

Subject: Mini 2228: Isekai uPick - Endgame

And there was an 8 minute pause between notsci's post and your first reply. That was enough time to try and find out what was going on rather than just react, secure in the knowledge of your role PM.

I have a bit of concern that it took Cakez 12 minutes to respond to the pooky's raised eyebrow.

The amount of time it takes to re-read the past few pages and figure out how you would have known, vs the amount of time you can instantly reply with how you knew.

[Lukewarm]

im bored of the game thread as of late, esp of brian

Did you have any thoughts about the cakez thing?

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: cakez

I've actually decided that this is good

At this point I am Most Bothered that it resulted in a full thread abandonment after he got his explanation out, despite his promises to solve the game right before

[Lukewarm]

gotta say, morphsync is amazing.

Luke, I posted this because one of the posts from this game you quoted re me noticing time lapses is a neuterhalf post.

For the record, I knew that was a cabd post

I actually wrote 2048 out with a "you" that I then replaced with "ffery" because I realized I was responding to cabd.

But the similarity is striking lol

[Lukewarm]

Dunn, where are your reads overall atm?

Town:

marcistar
Oblivion
morph the cat
Hermit Crab


Lean town:

PookyTheMagicalBear
Firebringer
Save The Dragons
ActionDan
Shello and Goodbye
Cat Scratch Fever


Lean mafia:

Lukewarm
Brian Skies
Gypyx
Dannflor
PenguinPower
Bingle
SirCakez


Mafia?:

Firebagel
Spiffeh
Klick
Sunflower



Something like this. ask me for reasoning. I know you will ask about Lukewarm so I will say I have a different bar of what I think they are capable of as mafia, and aside from their interaction with you I don't like their posting very much. Actually Klick said something similar so maybe they are more pure than I am giving them credit for.

You are leaning mafia on 11 people? lol

[Lukewarm]

My main impression of Firebagel, besides liking their cheekiness, is that in this playerlist they give me LHF feels. I have an alt guess, but I haven't actually played a game with the player I'm thinking of so I'm not putting much stock in it, other than to note that if I'm right I wouldn't can that player LHF

What resulted in bagel getting above the line in your reads list?

[Lukewarm]

It looks like its past time for me to look back at the klick+sunflower convo

[Lukewarm]

i hope theres 0 wolves in the hood i think it would be the funniest choice

i think that by flavor of this game, the hood members can probably switch around

morph, It does not seem like Sunflower was the first person to bring up that possibility

[Lukewarm]

Reading through the Sunflower/Klick discussion.

Spoiler:

1242 - I don't quite like klicks "Sunflower is actually scum but posts in a less scumread-able way" when the last time Klick mentioned Sunflower, in 968, his stated reason for having Sunflower down as scum was "cuz PoE Dethy"

However, it very quickly goes back to a POE with 1252 and even reconsidering the 0 scum option.

Which is a pretty aggressive whiplash, but I kinda want to say that scum!Klick would purposefully avoid such a whiplash?

1247 - While I did not like 1242, I also don't like sunflower's response to 1242. I don't think of fire as someone who is gonna go "If you think I am scum, you must be scum." Especially because it is presented as like a calm but serious take. Also don't like the question at the end? If he actually thinks it outing, why not let him walk into outing himself? All together this gives vibes of gearing up to what he thinks is in inevitable 1v1.

I also don't think that the reasoning that he presents in 1256 even backs up that claim. Town!Klick can find scum!me, so if he is calling me scum here, then he must be scum. It doesn't flow? More like he is pushing a square geg into a circle hole to support the claim.

counter point - 1316 - does feel like a more genuine engagement with what klick is saying.

Conclusion: if I was forced to vote between klick and sunflower, I would vote sunflower.

I am finding it hard to commit to that, because part of the complaint that sunflower is levying against klick is that the his town reads on STD/AD/Marci don't feel justified, and I don't have access to the hood to judge that?

However, I do think that of what I see in thread, sunflower seems more positional while klick seems to be still feeling around the edges of the situation, in particular with reevaluating the 0 scum option.

[Lukewarm]

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

To the cakez stuff? Or to Dunn repeating it back?

Because I am currently voting Cakez

[Lukewarm]

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

To the cakez stuff? Or to Dunn repeating it back?

Because I am currently voting Cakez

I didn't internalize this because of wondering about your focus on

my

occasional timing focus.

That was more of a I had a gut "lmao he just scum claimed" reaction, but then I was instantly tempering that reaction based off of the de ja vu feeling.

But thinking on it more, I landed back on it being scum indicative.

[Lukewarm]

the whole cakez was too affraid to post thing and was too slow to respond stuff is really really dumb guys.

Like are u listening to urselves on that shit?

Do u all remember even what ur talking about with regards to the question? The question from pooky was about how he knew it was notsci but not read anything. The answer can be as simple as he read 2 pages prior.

IT can be that fucking simple, and yet we have people here taking it like there is a some sort of grand mystery that cakez has to hide from because he got outted.

Fucking dumb as shit.

Hell, i have been hounded for stuff like that where i say "I haven't reaad shit" and actually read a few pages prior and then people focused me down for this "INCONSISTENCY". No its called me exaggerating that i am very not well read on the game so i didn't tell u that i haven't read everything which is true.

The question it self (how did you know it was notty) is nearly irrelevant to me at this point.

The thing is that his reaction looked like a dear caught in head lights, and then once he came up with his answer, he completely thread bailed.

He literally showed up like this

Spoiler:

y'all there is no way I can catch up here any time soon
But I want to start playing this game so I'm just gonna jump in and figure it out

And SirBakez can solve the shit out of this game

And what should be a super easy question appeared to rattle him enough that he dipped.

[Lukewarm]

I think if you put a gun to my head I’d feel pretty confident saying

Brian/Cakez/Gypyx/(sunflower/klick)/super secret pocket read

But that could just be copium.

honestly this feels like an answer that is too easy.

Brian, cakez, gypyx is ~approximately~ sorting the PL by post count.

I guess unless your pocket read is super spicy

[Lukewarm]

The thing is that his reaction looked like a dear caught in head lights, and then once he came up with his answer, he completely thread bailed.

HE IS PLAYING THE GAME HIGH!

I mean, you are welcome to disagree with the take, but I responded because 2194 looked like it either (most charitably) completely missed the point of the take, or (less charitably) was a strawman of the take.

[Lukewarm]

the whole cakez was too affraid to post thing and was too slow to respond stuff is really really dumb guys.

Like are u listening to urselves on that shit?

Do u all remember even what ur talking about with regards to the question? The question from pooky was about how he knew it was notsci but not read anything. The answer can be as simple as he read 2 pages prior.

IT can be that fucking simple, and yet we have people here taking it like there is a some sort of grand mystery that cakez has to hide from because he got outted.

Fucking dumb as shit.

Hell, i have been hounded for stuff like that where i say "I haven't reaad shit" and actually read a few pages prior and then people focused me down for this "INCONSISTENCY". No its called me exaggerating that i am very not well read on the game so i didn't tell u that i haven't read everything which is true.

It can be that simple. In fact I expected it to be that simple from town-Cakez.

Yeah, literally a "God you guys are dumb, they mentioned tenet" followed by continuing doing his thing would have completely shut the whole thing down.

[Lukewarm]

town: [oblivion, hermit crab]

town for now, maybe revisit later: [pooky, shello, dunnstral]

townlean: [marci, std]

light townlean, will continually revisit: [dannflor, luke]

low content but gut leans a little towny: [firebagel, gypyx...?]

the rest also sort of fit into tiers for me but im not feeling particularly great about any scumreads so i will leave this as a town half readlist

For anyone else curious, this leaves a PoE of:

morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd)
Firebringer
Brian Skies
Spiffeh
experience/ActionDan
SirCakez
Klick
Bingle
PenguinPower
Cat Scratch Fever

[Lukewarm]

town: [oblivion, hermit crab]

town for now, maybe revisit later: [pooky, shello, dunnstral]

townlean: [marci, std]

light townlean, will continually revisit: [dannflor, luke]

low content but gut leans a little towny: [firebagel, gypyx...?]

the rest also sort of fit into tiers for me but im not feeling particularly great about any scumreads so i will leave this as a town half readlist

For anyone else curious, this leaves a PoE of:

morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd)
Firebringer
Brian Skies
Spiffeh
experience/ActionDan
SirCakez
Klick
Bingle
PenguinPower
Cat Scratch Fever

I also cross referenced these names in sunflower's iso, and

morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd) -- called maybe town, but also seemed to tie that up in a preflip on Spiff/AD?

Firebringer - voted, said felt better about them tho when he moved his vote
experience/ActionDan - has voiced suspicions, but ranked lower then klick

Spiffeh - has called scummy

Klick - scum guess in hood
Cat Scratch Fever - recently voted.

Does not appear in Sunflower's iso at all:

Brian Skies
SirCakez
Bingle
PenguinPower


I guess the only surprising one is morph? Everyone else makes sense to not make his list

[Lukewarm]

Sunflower, what are your current thoughts on morph?

[Lukewarm]

Oh. I got a page top!

Pooky must be asleep!

[Lukewarm]

Hello friends. I stared at the PL, and I think that I could happily compromise to any of :

Firebringer
Brian Skies
Sunflower (JupiterXV & fireisredsir)
SirCakez
Klick
Bingle
Firebagel

(PenguinPower is omitted solely for having a cute avatar that I really like, so it would be a sad compromise)

[Lukewarm]

why did you do 2273

I saw your reads list, and was surprised that morph did not make the list, despite remembering you saying that they were town prior. So I wondered who all was off the list, and wanted to see if it made any sense.

[Lukewarm]

So that was step 1: make list of who is off list
Step 2: cross reference.

step 3: ask you about anyone who did not make sense.

[Lukewarm]

What is you reasoning behind cabd!scum?

[Lukewarm]

i certainly did not mean to imply that morph was town

Yeah, when I did my cross referencing, the post that I was remembering was one that had a lot of preflip conditions for the town read. I was missing those details simply on memory recall.

[Lukewarm]

morph im not really at all sold on but if they're right on spiffeh then they're probably town i guess idk

So you mind meld with our spiffeh take, but we're town only if it's a correct take? Nothing else coming from our slot has been indicative one direction or the other?

the first of those statements is accurate

you're somewhat more likely to be town if spiffeh is scum. you're very likely to be town if spiffeh and AD are both scum

you have over 200 posts. many of them have been indicative in one direction or the other

This one

[Lukewarm]

What is you reasoning behind cabd!scum?

not really interested in pursuing this atm, would be unproductive. ask me if i feel the same on like d3

I mean, I am contemplating handing my vote to them for this day phase, because I don't feel like trying to lead, they seem townie to me, and if they are town I would trust their reads over literally anyone else in this playerlist.

And from the state of things, that would likely mean voting you.

So, it might behoove us for you to sell me on why that might not be a good plan if you are truly suspicious of them.

[Lukewarm]

What is you reasoning behind cabd!scum?

not really interested in pursuing this atm, would be unproductive. ask me if i feel the same on like d3

I mean, I am contemplating handing my vote to them for this day phase, because I don't feel like trying to lead, they seem townie to me, and if they are town I would trust their reads over literally anyone else in this playerlist.

And from the state of things, that would likely mean voting you.

So, it might behoove us for you to sell me on why that might not be a good plan if you are truly suspicious of them.

if they want us limmed then it's going to happen regardless of what i say

I mean, you are currently talking to one of the players who might actually have a shot at wresting thread control if he was motivated enough, certainly not to kill a morph town read, but to force a compromise onto one of their other scum reads.

But if you are ready to just roll over and die, I guess that works too.

[Lukewarm]

cabd, I dont exactly love the peanut gallery being in full effect when I am trying to force a conversation

[Lukewarm]

cabd, I dont exactly love the peanut gallery being in full effect when I am trying to force a conversation

If I did not already have you in my town pile, this would look a lot like you were trying to get ahead of anything sunflower might have to say, both to demoralize him and to discredit anything he did decide to put out.

[Lukewarm]

It appears fireisredsir has already been ran off.

[Lukewarm]

fwiw fire, my town read on morph has been cracking a bit recently.

GTH, I would still call them town, and at this point I probably would still would let them aim the vote today, because if we handed them the keys and they led us to a scum elim, then that might clear things up anyways.

But that is to say, that I was genuinely reaching out to give you a chance to tell me what you see.

[Lukewarm]

I feel like I really cleared the room.

Guess I am off to bed

[Lukewarm]

Luke do you want to talk about your concerns with us?

I went to bed, did a last check of the thread my phone and saw this, and you have pulled me back to my laptop

But yeah, I can type out my thoughts.

[Lukewarm]

1

Lack of methodological approach.

This is again what drew my attention to you super early in the game, where you appeared to miss the context of pooky's readlist.

It resurfaced with your Sunflower vote in 2099, where:

(1) you used sunflower's comment on hoods being swapped around against him, despite several other people having voiced the same theory, and him not being the the first one to say it. Even in the post you quoted, fire said that he "still" thinks that hood swapping makes sense, indicating that there was a prior discussion about the topic, but you did not follow up on that.

(2) you missed an entire page of people stating that Bingle's claim looked like a joke, and you simply took it at face value. Like, in order for you to make the claim in 2099, it would necessitate you having missed every single one of these posts?

Spoiler:

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

VOTE: Marcistar

U just said u can't vote!

U just said u can't vote!

No I didn’t.

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote

That doesn’t say I can’t vote.

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Wait, hold on, this is actually a thing?

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Bingle, you're the main character

I thought Bingle was joking.

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Wait how do you know there are hoods plural?

p-edit: oh, maybe

i thought bingle was very definitely joking

I think bingle has never told a joke in mafia game ever.

p-edit: oh, maybe

I was not sure what to think about the claim, but yeah him voting 2 posts later made me assume that the claim was a joke.

]

2

Your interaction with me over my reads

I don't agree on a couple of your reads, which should be obvious. Those are the ones I'm mulling. Do you need me to prioritize getting back to you on it? I was going to wait until we have a chance to sync on new data first.

You feeling like you need to talk to cabd, before you could talk to me about my reads seems very out of character for how I think of town!ffery.

Like, our game experience, once you decided that I was town, we have literally started our own in thread neighborhood to work through our thoughts, and that came across as you being hesitant to just chat with me on my throughts despite having me as one of your strongest town reads.

And once you did respond to them with 2084, is felt like there was a lack of bite? Like, it did not feel like you were actually trying to challenge me on the things that you did not agree with me on, to work through the differences. You just kinda *pointed* at places where we differed.

3

Our conversation about time stamps

I feel like my posts about your history of timestamps resulted in you posting on the back foot. Like you did not know where it was going, and that worried you.

It actually gave me the opposite vibes of our interaction where I original town read you, because it felt almost like you were worried that it was leading to a read shift from me. It seemed like you wanted to enagage with me to keep a tabs on it, but didn't know the right steps to take because it was an unexpected conversation. And you basically came out and said that it was distracting to you

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

To the cakez stuff? Or to Dunn repeating it back?

Because I am currently voting Cakez

I didn't internalize this because of wondering about your focus on

my

occasional timing focus.

4

Minor ping

inevitable 1v1.

Note that they JUST saw this exact scenario as scum in Midscummer's, from Dunn/Gif scum hydra against Alisae/Maria town hydra.

This post felt off.

It did not feel like it was engaging in a way to substantiate a new point, but just to egg on my thoughts. Strengthen my read. But still let the point be originating from me.

5

Cabd's recent interjections

Spoiler: relevant cabd posts

Null is always where scum puts morph when we are approaching UTR status.

Calling us scum puts a bunch of heat on from the rest of the folks town reading us and makes them effort a case.

Calling us town means admitting that we have legitimate concerns and having to more directly address and tango.

But calling our well over there hundred posts "null" means having to do neither of those things until forced from a different impetus and allows status quo riding along.

Sunflower won't case me but if they are town and genuinely scum reading me they think it's perfectly fine to let scum me have thread control for two whole game days. Lol nope.

(a townie actually scum reading me is shouting that shit from the rooftops and urging the thread to stop following me blindly damn the personal consequences.)

I mean if you're town and I'm scum it's called playing to your win condition.

You're once again more worried about the consequences and fallout of pushing me than you are actually wanting to protect the town from a scary deepwolf.

And I don't think you're a coward as town. So I'm left with the alternative. That you ARE playing to win con it's just not the one I have.

I know that cabd knows that you should not step in the way of a line of questioning, but he did it anyways. And the way that he did it does feel kinda bad faith as dann said. Or as I said

this would look a lot like you were trying to get ahead of anything sunflower might have to say, both to demoralize him and to discredit anything he did decide to put out.

That series of posts does set cabd up to either:

If Fireisredsir does not make a case, say "see, I told you he wouldn't do it," or
If fireisredsir does make a case say "He had to put it out there because of my posts saying that its a scum claim not to"

[Lukewarm]

I'm running out of steam. Luke, I'm not sure if you're working on a post still or not. I'll hang in for 20-30 more minutes maybe more if I can keep my eyes open.

Sorry, its a big post!

[Lukewarm]

As a side point, once I started having flickers of the possibility of morph scum, it has mildly shifted my stance on marci.

If morph ends up flipping town at any point this game, I am ready to treat her as an innocent child.

but if morph does turn out to be scum, scum!marci should be back on the table.

Morph is the only slot in the entire game that I think would both take on the task of coaching her through all of the hood/dethy stuff, and would succeed at it. I have actually seen Cabd do that exact thing for Marci before.

[Lukewarm]

Just skimming, I see you may have confused some cabd posts for mine. 2140 wasn't me.

I'll go through the whole thing and respond before I call it a night.

Yeah, I knew that one was cabd.

The post started with my pings on you, and ended with my pings on cabd. I guess I did not make that clear.

[Lukewarm]

hey y'all!

Hello!

But also, goodnight!

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: morph

I reserve the right to feel differently in the morning.

[Lukewarm]

I was kinda hoping to come back to a cabd response, but alas

[Lukewarm]

Luke I still think my cat is town but it's too late in the evening for me to properly read your post and then go back over the context to make sure I understand it but I promise you I will do it at some point when I have time.

Pooky did this ever happen?

[Lukewarm]

So heres the thing, I had some cracking worries on morph, but still thought town, and it all kinda ramped up quickly last night.

I hated cabd's peanut gallery -> Typing out all of the things that had worried me actually strengthened them I wrote them -> And then I did not like ffery's response.

In particular her comments about the "engaging with me on my read" which felt like her general mindset of engaging with me is not what her general mindset I associate with town!ffery.

[Lukewarm]

Although, I am still debating letting them lead for a day to prove me wrong.

[Lukewarm]

Hi Spiff, recent development : I have turned on Morph.

Thoughts?

[Lukewarm]

But im still slughtly confused

That big post seems like discrediting morphs thoughts without actually pushing them.

Was the dephy stuff really such a shining star?

I think scum have a VERY hard time making that "realization" seem genuine and natural like they did. This coupled with the immediate transition into town locking certain players for their reactions to it (most of which I agreed with) felt very pro-Town.

I also liked them harping on Pooky for not understanding and them ultimately coming around to a Pooky townread based on his response.

I know ffery says I am overstating the mindmeld but the above is what sold me.

This is where I'm at with them.

I have experienced a game where scum!cabd crafted a series of crumbs for scum!marci to drop, for him to then spot, point at, call marci lock town for.

Which then garnered both cabd and marci town reads by both town!ffery and town!Notty.

If anyone could pull exactly what you are describing it would be cabd (he has done it before)

That is part of the reason why I think that a scum!morph puts scum!marci back on the table.

But all that being said, the overall reaction to my points leaves me feeling like falling back and letting them lead for the day is the right path.

[Lukewarm]

I just want to lim scum, you see.
If mod bothered to put dethy in the hood, I assume he expect to see it played out, so we probably have until like Day 3 to lim scum in there anyway.

-Herr Mitt

My only concern with that is the scum boon of an unknown deadline.

Like, if it is a 4:1 split, I cannot imagine that dead line being too far out

[Lukewarm]

I think that a fair bit of my own concerns are stemming from the dynamic that ffery has established with me over the course of many games, but are specific to me in a way that is not particularly easy to sell other people on.

Anyways.

Falling back on it.

[Lukewarm]

But im still slughtly confused

That big post seems like discrediting morphs thoughts without actually pushing them.

Was the dephy stuff really such a shining star?

I think scum have a VERY hard time making that "realization" seem genuine and natural like they did. This coupled with the immediate transition into town locking certain players for their reactions to it (most of which I agreed with) felt very pro-Town.

I also liked them harping on Pooky for not understanding and them ultimately coming around to a Pooky townread based on his response.

I know ffery says I am overstating the mindmeld but the above is what sold me.

This is where I'm at with them.

I have experienced a game where scum!cabd crafted a series of crumbs for scum!marci to drop, for him to then spot, point at, call marci lock town for.

Which then garnered both cabd and marci town reads by both town!ffery and town!Notty.

If anyone could pull exactly what you are describing it would be cabd (he has done it before)

That is part of the reason why I think that a scum!morph puts scum!marci back on the table.

But all that being said, the overall reaction to my points leaves me feeling like falling back and letting them lead for the day is the right path.

ngl i do lean pretty heavily on scum teammates on what i should do because i always know im not living past like day 2 at best.

but that being said, im not scum so this looks like a shit read.

That is not a read.

I have concerns about morph unrelated to that.

And the post you quoted is explaining why Spiff's :

"I think scum have a VERY hard time making that "realization" seem genuine and natural like they did. This coupled with the immediate transition into town locking certain players for their reactions to it (most of which I agreed with) felt very pro-Town."

Did not swing my read. I think cabd could do that as scum, because I've seen him do that as scum.

[Lukewarm]

wait what even are the points on morph as scum?

Spoiler:

1

Lack of methodological approach.

This is again what drew my attention to you super early in the game, where you appeared to miss the context of pooky's readlist.

It resurfaced with your Sunflower vote in 2099, where:

(1) you used sunflower's comment on hoods being swapped around against him, despite several other people having voiced the same theory, and him not being the the first one to say it. Even in the post you quoted, fire said that he "still" thinks that hood swapping makes sense, indicating that there was a prior discussion about the topic, but you did not follow up on that.

(2) you missed an entire page of people stating that Bingle's claim looked like a joke, and you simply took it at face value. Like, in order for you to make the claim in 2099, it would necessitate you having missed every single one of these posts?

Spoiler:

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

VOTE: Marcistar

U just said u can't vote!

U just said u can't vote!

No I didn’t.

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote

That doesn’t say I can’t vote.

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Wait, hold on, this is actually a thing?

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Bingle, you're the main character

I thought Bingle was joking.

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Wait how do you know there are hoods plural?

p-edit: oh, maybe

i thought bingle was very definitely joking

I think bingle has never told a joke in mafia game ever.

p-edit: oh, maybe

I was not sure what to think about the claim, but yeah him voting 2 posts later made me assume that the claim was a joke.

]

2

Your interaction with me over my reads

I don't agree on a couple of your reads, which should be obvious. Those are the ones I'm mulling. Do you need me to prioritize getting back to you on it? I was going to wait until we have a chance to sync on new data first.

You feeling like you need to talk to cabd, before you could talk to me about my reads seems very out of character for how I think of town!ffery.

Like, our game experience, once you decided that I was town, we have literally started our own in thread neighborhood to work through our thoughts, and that came across as you being hesitant to just chat with me on my throughts despite having me as one of your strongest town reads.

And once you did respond to them with 2084, is felt like there was a lack of bite? Like, it did not feel like you were actually trying to challenge me on the things that you did not agree with me on, to work through the differences. You just kinda *pointed* at places where we differed.

3

Our conversation about time stamps

I feel like my posts about your history of timestamps resulted in you posting on the back foot. Like you did not know where it was going, and that worried you.

It actually gave me the opposite vibes of our interaction where I original town read you, because it felt almost like you were worried that it was leading to a read shift from me. It seemed like you wanted to enagage with me to keep a tabs on it, but didn't know the right steps to take because it was an unexpected conversation. And you basically came out and said that it was distracting to you

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

To the cakez stuff? Or to Dunn repeating it back?

Because I am currently voting Cakez

I didn't internalize this because of wondering about your focus on

my

occasional timing focus.

4

Minor ping

inevitable 1v1.

Note that they JUST saw this exact scenario as scum in Midscummer's, from Dunn/Gif scum hydra against Alisae/Maria town hydra.

This post felt off.

It did not feel like it was engaging in a way to substantiate a new point, but just to egg on my thoughts. Strengthen my read. But still let the point be originating from me.

5

Cabd's recent interjections

Spoiler: relevant cabd posts

Null is always where scum puts morph when we are approaching UTR status.

Calling us scum puts a bunch of heat on from the rest of the folks town reading us and makes them effort a case.

Calling us town means admitting that we have legitimate concerns and having to more directly address and tango.

But calling our well over there hundred posts "null" means having to do neither of those things until forced from a different impetus and allows status quo riding along.

Sunflower won't case me but if they are town and genuinely scum reading me they think it's perfectly fine to let scum me have thread control for two whole game days. Lol nope.

(a townie actually scum reading me is shouting that shit from the rooftops and urging the thread to stop following me blindly damn the personal consequences.)

I mean if you're town and I'm scum it's called playing to your win condition.

You're once again more worried about the consequences and fallout of pushing me than you are actually wanting to protect the town from a scary deepwolf.

And I don't think you're a coward as town. So I'm left with the alternative. That you ARE playing to win con it's just not the one I have.

I know that cabd knows that you should not step in the way of a line of questioning, but he did it anyways. And the way that he did it does feel kinda bad faith as dann said. Or as I said

this would look a lot like you were trying to get ahead of anything sunflower might have to say, both to demoralize him and to discredit anything he did decide to put out.

That series of posts does set cabd up to either:

If Fireisredsir does not make a case, say "see, I told you he wouldn't do it," or
If fireisredsir does make a case say "He had to put it out there because of my posts saying that its a scum claim not to"

VOTE: morph

I reserve the right to feel differently in the morning.

So heres the thing, I had some cracking worries on morph, but still thought town, and it all kinda ramped up quickly last night.

I hated cabd's peanut gallery -> Typing out all of the things that had worried me actually strengthened them I wrote them -> And then I did not like ffery's response.

In particular her comments about the "engaging with me on my read" which felt like her general mindset of engaging with me is not what her general mindset I associate with town!ffery.

[Lukewarm]

@Luke, I haven’t seen Cabd post in the morning EST at all this game in pretty sure, so I don’t think it’s AI he didn’t respond

I didn't think that it was.

It was disappointment, not shade.

[Lukewarm]

This may surprise you but my reads are fluctuating a lot this game, so I'm more interested in absorbing what others think than in pushing my reads. I took pooky's comments about wine society to heart, though, and decided to use my vote with less conviction than I generally do.

I still dont think that you identified what my problem with your engagement with my reads was.

[Lukewarm]

Your two responses:

Spoiler:

I was more interested in understanding your thoughts and seeing where we differed than I was in convincing you I was right.

This may surprise you but my reads are fluctuating a lot this game, so I'm more interested in absorbing what others think than in pushing my reads.

At no point did I say that I expected you to be "pushing your reads" or "convincing me that you are right" This is what I actually said :

is felt like there was a lack of bite? Like, it did not feel like you were actually trying to challenge me on the things that you did not agree with me on, to work through the differences

You are professing me to be one of your strongest town reads, and that I am one of your stakes in the ground this game, that you are more interested in "understanding my thoughts" and "absorbing what others think,"

But when I gave you reads, and there were things that we disagreed with you basically just pointed at the things that we differed on, and moved on.

It was missing the probing questions. The attempts to allow yourself to "see what luke sees" and to help me see what you see. It lacked the bite. It lacked the attempt to get us to be on the same page (whether that end up being agreeing with your original position or mine).

[Lukewarm]

If I nailed you guys with this read, I will be insufferable in the post game.

If I am wrong, I will be claiming that I never believe it that much anyways

[Lukewarm]

I don't feel like you normally walk into that conversation trying to convince me. So maybe we are using "challenging me" differently.

But I am already prepared to back down for the day.

[Lukewarm]

I don't think that there is anything that I need to discuss right now.

I am still open to a cabd response, but I am currently most interested in seeing where you guys go from here.

So that is more wait and see.

[Lukewarm]

Luke, I've deleted my first two responses under the Thumper Rule.

Suffice to say I've been through this ringamarole from you in Bloodstained and I'm not subjecting myself to it again.

I have no desire to discuss this further for game health reasons.

Okay.

I don't know that you actively trying to sway me is going to help anything anyways, so I am down for you guys to focus on the rest of the game.

Although, I am not the only person who called out your posts from last night. It might actually be more helpful for me to see you engage with those rather then engaging with me directly anyways.

[Lukewarm]

I got you csf

VOTE: cakez

[Lukewarm]

Did experience make an appearance in the dethy hood?

[Lukewarm]

While I'm aware that Chuck head played plenty of games with morph before, if you wonderful folks could add some explanation of why some of the past games are mentioned and how they relate to the reads, I would be much obliged. Unless they are hidden on purpose. Then crabshrug

-Herr Mitt

Cabd / ffery/ notty like to use past games (and also league of legends references) to talk to each other in a way that theoretically someone on the outside could decipher, but in practice it is likely only going to be understood by the person they are talking to.

Is there a reason you asked the thread, instead of asking notty in your hydra chat? lol

[Lukewarm]

So I think this kind of breaks down if there's a traitor in there, so i'm having a hard time seeing forming associative based reads on the hood

I do think marci is a lot more likely to be town in traitor-hood world thob

I'm kinda going back and forth on how I feel abt marci

~ skitter

I agree that marci is almost certainly town if the set up is a traitor.

Recently, I also found the way she called my read a shit read to feel townie.

[Lukewarm]

So.... I think at least some of my conviction of my morph scum read was being spurred on by being frustrated with cabd.

Everything that I said before is still floating around, but the amount of certainty I had when I cast my vote did not actually last.

If he had not frustrated me, I probably would still be sitting on my concerns, and just watching at this stage.

[Lukewarm]

actually there are a lot of pages
i'll prob do a quick skim instead

Maybe prioritize the people in your hood?

Both in the hood and out here.

[Lukewarm]

Is it weird to anyone else we haven’t had competing wagons this game?

I think that struggling to get day 1 wagons off the ground is a product of the playerlist having 22 names on it.

[Lukewarm]

this tell ive found in nottys town play seems to apply here,

VOTE: Marci

[Lukewarm]

im so mad right now

[Lukewarm]

I think that the best reason to town read hermit crab is the real time frustration at the dethy reveal happening too fast.

[Lukewarm]

and ur mad that marci isn't townreading hermit of that.....

Someone has taken a cyber security class, and knows not to push suspicious links.

Couldnt be me.

[Lukewarm]

I think youre lying.

You 100% pressed the link didnt you BAHAHAHHA

In that post the person who took the cyber security class would be firebringer.

And I could not be the person who took the class.

I did push the link.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Brian

[Lukewarm]

if shello was not a hydra, I would feel more strongly about this, but I had a minor alarm bell go off seeing the slot vote gypyx, but move the vote one hour later to cakez when doing so would keep the brian/cakex wagons tied, and there having been no new content from either gypyx or cakez.

But I did see that it was different heads that cast each vote.

[Lukewarm]

wait, I think I may have messed up the timeline when switching from main thread to isos. I am reinvestigating lol

[Lukewarm]

I did.


I saw 2747 voting cakez come right after 2745's vote on vote on Brian, and realized that it kept the votes tied. I went to check who they were voting before, and did a control+f "vote:" starting from the bottom.


And seeing their most recent vote was 2799 on cakez, I assumed that was the same vote that started my look into their iso, and then saw that their prior vote was on 2750 on gypyx.

And so, I juxtaposed those votes onto the thread that I had just been reading, when actually those votes are in context of the thread that I have not read yet.

[Lukewarm]

Actually, when ydra used the vote to tie the wagon, they were not voting for a while as of 2375.

Which, I don't think is as troublesome.

[Lukewarm]

Why would i say it if i understand??
I legitmately don't understand how you can like both wagons if you sr me. Do you not think me voting brian would mean something in scum!me world?

It could mean so many things

It could mean I’m wrong on you, it could mean I’m wrong on then, it could mean you are bussing, it could mean you are both different factions of scum, it could mean you’re both town

This is a 22 player game and I’m not ever going to get anywhere if I refuse to vote with anyone I think might be scum

I don’t understand why you think this is strange or why I should come to a strong conclusion due to you voting one of these wagons

And like I struggle to believe this is an actual town thought you have

To the contrary, I think that the self minded of this feels town.

As opposed to Being Scum, and also being self aware of whether people are voting her partners I think would keep her from having that thought.

Its a bad thought. But its a bad thought that I don't think is as likely to cross her mind as scum.

[Lukewarm]

Luke do u wanna hear a secret

Sorry, I just got here on my back read.

Sure, whats up?

[Lukewarm]

i voted more for want of a vote than a strong read earlier

i don’t have any really strong wolfreads, mostly townreads and the three most current wagons were varying degrees of meh to me so skitter not wanting one means there’s no resistance from me to change it

- ydra

Yeah, in context of everything, the votes are less suspicious.

You were not voting -> joined the dueling wagons -> responded to a Her Mitt post that seemed to prod you into looking at gypyx, so voted -> skitter showed up, disagreed, and put you back onto the prior vote.

But the way I read it when I was suspicious was

You voted gypyx because of reading the hermitt post -> jumped ship on that 1 hour later to keep the wagons even despite no content from gypyx or either person in the dueling wagon.

[Lukewarm]

this game is actually starting to piss me off hahaHAHAHA

Thats my secret only luke can read okay guys?

Sorry.

But why?

[Lukewarm]

this game is actually starting to piss me off hahaHAHAHA

Thats my secret only luke can read okay guys?

Sorry.

But why?

hey dont expose my secret! Smh

Cuz people dont think i can "play good" as town so they call my posts cringe/hollow/fake and more and its so frustrqting for me cuz how am i meant to play when its like this? I just want to be a good player like the rest of the pl but everyone only thinks i can troll its so frustrating playing with such good players and then not being allowed to be one yourself.i feel like i lag behind everyone else and im so overly jealous and it sounds so nasty of me to say but i just wanna be on par with everyone else

I think that you post with an extra level of dramatics over how most people post that makes people take a surface level read of your posts as manufactured/cringe/hollow/fake.

Having seen that that is actually just how you post, as either alignment, or even just in discord, results in me realizing that a lot of that is just Marci-isms, and not anything to do with your alignment, so I try to peer past it. However, I am not ever surprised when people have that immediate reaction to your posts.

I don't think that you are a bad player when you are actually trying (although, I have seen games where you were not trying. But you seem to be trying this game) so I don't really know how to give you tips on how to get "up to par" with everyone else, but that might offer some insight on why people take your posts this way?

[Lukewarm]

I am happy to try to describe how I came about reading people the way I read them to the best of my ability

I am curious about my own placement, seeing as how I was bottom 3 the last time you made a list

[Lukewarm]

firebringer, pooky town

hermit and spiffeh town (but this is down a peg)

actiondan slot scum

Wow. I did not even make the cut.

Why is firebringer so town to you?

[Lukewarm]

make the bingle case

[Lukewarm]

Cakez, care to put more words to your firebagel read?

[Lukewarm]

Sigh

Crabz, do y'all have thoughts on this?

Same question to you, Luke.

other's thoughts also welcome.

I am of two minds when I look at his top 4 scum reads.

In my left brain, I don't think that scum-Cakez would feel super confident in dropping you guys in the bottom tier.

In my right brain, I think that landing on Brian being his strongest scum read is exactly who scum-Cakez needs to have as his strongest scum read.

[Lukewarm]

I think his overall tone in his posts following the reads list is pretty good actually?

[Lukewarm]

I am curious what Dunn thinks about cakez's Dunn read.

[Lukewarm]

Sigh

Crabz, do y'all have thoughts on this?

Same question to you, Luke.

other's thoughts also welcome.

I am of two minds when I look at his top 4 scum reads.

In my left brain, I don't think that scum-Cakez would feel super confident in dropping you guys in the bottom tier.

In my right brain, I think that landing on Brian being his strongest scum read is exactly who scum-Cakez needs to have as his strongest scum read.

You're scumreading us afaik. How do you think scum-me/scum-cakez would position around each other? Is this situation what you expect from that perspective?

In general, I don't like to team solve, so that seems more like a question for after one or the other of you actually flip scum.

If try to pretend that cakez is flipped scum right now, I don't think that your interactions are clearing? I can see you guys suggesting he needs a ballsy scum read if he wants to pull himself out of the hole he was in. But I also don't think that it is particularly linked either?

But again, that is a question that gets more brain power after a flip.

[Lukewarm]

I think his overall tone in his posts following the reads list is pretty good actually?

This is what I didn't hate.

Other then his you read, do you hate his reads list?

[Lukewarm]

Sigh

Crabz, do y'all have thoughts on this?

Same question to you, Luke.

other's thoughts also welcome.

I am of two minds when I look at his top 4 scum reads.

In my left brain, I don't think that scum-Cakez would feel super confident in dropping you guys in the bottom tier.

In my right brain, I think that landing on Brian being his strongest scum read is exactly who scum-Cakez needs to have as his strongest scum read.

Why are you looking at everything from the angle of would scum!Cakez do this? What about would town!Cakez do this? I feel like everyone in this game is good enough to see how scummy Brian's recent posting has been, I almost feel like it would be egregious to not vote him given the wagon existing too.

Turns out "Do I think that scum would do this / benefit from doing this" is a question I ask myself when trying to discern someones alignment.

Hope that helps.