Shell Game (Night 4)
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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Dunn made me chuckle on page 1, so I am legally obligated to never vote him this day phase.-
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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I am interested in your answer.In post 81, morph the cat wrote:Noted, thanks, but not where the problems lie.
fwiw, every name on this list seems to be approximately where I would expect it to be coming from pooky at the moment I hit it lol-
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Things of note:
Ydra's entrance vibed town for me.
I am liking Oblivion's questions at Firebagel, and am not liking firebagel's responses. But I think that I am liking Oblivions questions more then I am disliking bagel's responses.
I am also surprised by the fireisredsir fluff, and also surprised at the number of reads he churned out in 116 in response to being called out for fluff.-
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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I am not enjoying it, because reading the thread feels like pulling teeth right now. I am really prone to clicking on links in quotes, and it physically hurt me so much that I halfway abandoned it.In post 134, Spiffeh wrote: Hi Luke, are you enjoying this game so far?
But this I appreciated. Took all the guess work out of who to kill night 1. Not like anyone takes peoples day 1 reads seriously after they die anyways.How spooked and demoralized are you that I've already identified your entire scum team?-
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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dad, I asked a questionIn post 135, morph the cat wrote: Hi "I'm a miller", I'm Dad.-
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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Wow, didn't even make the cut to be mentioned.In post 150, Brian Skies wrote: I've got townleans of various degrees on Firebagel, Pooky, Sunflower, Dunn, and Spiffeh.
I've got scumleans of various degrees on Shello, STD, Dan, and Morph.
Then we've also got confirmed scum Firepup.-
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I made the cut for this one, but wow. This is worseIn post 168, Klick wrote:PookyTheMagicalBear
Oblivion
ActionDan
Firebagel
Brian Skies
Spiffeh
morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd)
Firebringer
Dunnstral
Gypyx
marcistar
Save The Dragons
Shello and Goodbye (Ydrasse & skitter30)
Sunflower (JupiterXV & fireisredsir)
SirCakez
Bingle
PenguinPower
Dannflor
Hermit Crab
Cat Scratch Fever
Lukewarm-
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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In post 175, marcistar wrote: If it helps
Theres a like ..5..? Idk how to count! Person hood and we got info that suggests scums in the hood.
Wow.In post 176, Spiffeh wrote: I am in a six person hood that is not Marci’s
I did not know I needed to be offended by my non-neighborhood role pm, but now I am.
Curse you cehpir!-
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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I mean it *could* be that scum have a "Join PT" pr, but starting with a member in there seems like the easier answerIn post 187, marcistar wrote: I think saying 0 at all is crazy. I think the info bascially suggests theres at least 1, maybe more.-
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I find marci's paranoia and handling of the hood info to be townie.In post 188, marcistar wrote: Also sunflower saying theres exactly 1 is a bit wonky but i think the "1 or 0" is farrr worse
Gold star for marci-
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I stand by surprised in both instances thank you very much.In post 195, Shello and Goodbye wrote:
if i had to take a crack at it i think it’s the last part - it feels silly that he reiterated how surprised he felt as if it were a big deal and the word churned is ?_? to me here lolIn post 131, Lukewarm wrote: Things of note:
Ydra's entrance vibed town for me.
I am liking Oblivion's questions at Firebagel, and am not liking firebagel's responses. But I think that I am liking Oblivions questions more then I am disliking bagel's responses.
I am also surprised by the fireisredsir fluff, and also surprised at the number of reads he churned out in 116 in response to being called out for fluff.
When I started reading fire's posts, I seemed a little out of character for how I picture him, bit I also realized it's been a long time since I played with him, so I kinda just filed the thought away for later.
And when I hit that post, it felt like (flagrantly stealing this verbage from morph) tonal whiplash.
Given the timing, it also seemed reactionary to the people proding him for his fluffiness. The content of the reads also felt a bit weak, and it looked like he was padding out the reads to appease the haters.
That is where churned came in. Like he started the post with the idea "I need to put reads out because people are prodding me," and came up with the reads as he wrote the post. As opposed to just expressing the reads he had been developing.
I was still mulling over whether or not I thought town!fire would also feel the need to put out reads if he felt like people were starting to suspect him over his content, which is why I didn't go from calling it surprising -> calling it scummy.
The point about scum fire being able to churn out a better reads list if he felt like he needed to does ring true a little.-
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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Have you played with Marci before?In post 205, ActionDan wrote:
People who engage in gimmicks like that place a high priority on RVS banter to form early reads. If they do not post while the iron is hot, the utility disappears as well.In post 119, Dunnstral wrote:
OK. Why is not posting for a page scummy?In post 107, ActionDan wrote:
Sunflower is because of forces outside the main thread. I will not explain that at this time, but may before the day is through.In post 92, Dunnstral wrote: My thoughts so far:
Sunflower in post 13 struck me the wrong way as I wasn't expecting that post from fireisredsir, and then they had a lot of filler type posts. They then call me towny and I'm not sure what they are basing that off of either with the 4 posts I had before.
ActionDan's post 86 rubs me the wrong way because I don't agree and don't know how they reached their conclusions. Perhaps they can explain.
Firebagel was because as an alt that may very well only exist for the purpose of stealing Firebringer's scum claiming gimmick, it hadn't posted for a page.
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I see our neighborhood has been outed. At first glance this worry from Maristar looks planned and manufactured. And with the goodfellas award I am discarding this as an oversensitive townie
VOTE: Maristar
Secondly CSF earns a permanent FOS for the Miller claim for this particular game alone.-
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I feel like I have more bite once I have a bone to chase down, but I'm still getting the lay of the land at this pointIn post 234, Shello and Goodbye wrote:
yeah okay i do think that's fair. in the last game which just finished recently midsummer i noted that sunflower was playing more sociable than i expected and it was because they were wolfing so i don't inherently think that's a bad thing to pressure on as previously statedIn post 228, Lukewarm wrote:
I stand by surprised in both instances thank you very much.In post 195, Shello and Goodbye wrote:
if i had to take a crack at it i think it’s the last part - it feels silly that he reiterated how surprised he felt as if it were a big deal and the word churned is ?_? to me here lolIn post 131, Lukewarm wrote: Things of note:
Ydra's entrance vibed town for me.
I am liking Oblivion's questions at Firebagel, and am not liking firebagel's responses. But I think that I am liking Oblivions questions more then I am disliking bagel's responses.
I am also surprised by the fireisredsir fluff, and also surprised at the number of reads he churned out in 116 in response to being called out for fluff.
When I started reading fire's posts, I seemed a little out of character for how I picture him, bit I also realized it's been a long time since I played with him, so I kinda just filed the thought away for later.
And when I hit that post, it felt like (flagrantly stealing this verbage from morph) tonal whiplash.
Given the timing, it also seemed reactionary to the people proding him for his fluffiness. The content of the reads also felt a bit weak, and it looked like he was padding out the reads to appease the haters.
That is where churned came in. Like he started the post with the idea "I need to put reads out because people are prodding me," and came up with the reads as he wrote the post. As opposed to just expressing the reads he had been developing.
I was still mulling over whether or not I thought town!fire would also feel the need to put out reads if he felt like people were starting to suspect him over his content, which is why I didn't go from calling it surprising -> calling it scummy.
The point about scum fire being able to churn out a better reads list if he felt like he needed to does ring true a little.
i don't have a strong mental Picture of Lukewarm but it felt like calling things repeatedly surprising was.. wrong i guess, idk if i expect you to have a bit more sureness or bite to how you approach posts and that was more of a softball like you were being timid-
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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I feel like answering this question stops my line of questioning from being useful to me, but I pinky promise to respond to this after.
I kind of just want to know which two names did you object to, and why-
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The more I think about how Marci handled the hoods, the more I want to just town bin her for the rest of the game.-
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Spiff does your hood also have an ominous mod message? Or is that localized to Marci'sIn post 176, Spiffeh wrote: I am in a six person hood that is not Marci’s-
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If anyone else was wondering, there does not appear to be any overlap between the hoods.
Spoiler:-
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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I don't think that me expressing a town read on you when you have one (1) vote on you can really even be called protecting you lol.In post 292, marcistar wrote: I want to say town i reqlly do but last time i townread someone who protected me it all turned out very wrong
I just town read you-
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I actually planned on waiting for the answer to 232 before voting, but then a wagon formed, and I wanted to feel includedIn post 294, morph the cat wrote: You're voting Action Dan, at least in part over his reaction to marci's neighborhood related posts. Do you expect him to know her towngame well enough not to have that reaction?-
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I am trying to figure out why you ended up responding to that reads list seriously. Like I think that that reads list voiced between 0 to two (MAX) actual reads in in, so seeing you respond to it seriously raised questions.In post 294, morph the cat wrote: Your answer kinda answers your question. Why are you so curious about this?
For reference, Pooky's reads list was:
-The three people pooky bantered with about being/claiming scum on page 1 in the scum pile (15, 17, 20)
-Firebringer in the highest possible town pile, as consistent with the dynamic between the two, where firebringer claims scum, and pooky calls him lock town, and firebringer pretends to be offended that pooky could even consider that a possibility. This played out in this very game before the reads list.
-PenguinPower, who has made 0 posts, in town. Once again, this appears to be a Pooky+PP dynamic, as I am like 90% sure I have seen pooky say basically the same thing as fb's 80.
That leaves the only two that had any chance of having *any* substance behind them being the STD and the Ydra/skitter hydra reads.
I am not familiar with pooky having a dynamic with them like the PP or FB one, so that is where I see the possibility of 0-2 actual reads being expressed here, but overall this just seems like the culmination of his early banter.
So seeing you respond, with specific critiques, made me wonder how you got there.-
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You asked if I expected him to know how she plays. I pointed out that I am currently awaiting the answer to that very question.In post 308, morph the cat wrote:
This doesn't answer my question. Or I'm being obtuse.In post 305, Lukewarm wrote:
I actually planned on waiting for the answer to 232 before voting, but then a wagon formed, and I wanted to feel includedIn post 294, morph the cat wrote: You're voting Action Dan, at least in part over his reaction to marci's neighborhood related posts. Do you expect him to know her towngame well enough not to have that reaction?
I think that the way he framed his vote was scummy regardless of his experience with her but that answer could strengthen/weaken my conviction.-
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This may be true that he has started gathering reads, but there is no way that that list reflected that. That list was still locked into the banter.In post 318, Sunflower wrote: i think pooky would actually genuinely scumread people off page 1-2 rvs banter
I might believe that it was serious if there was some variance, but he literally put all three of the people he called scum by post 20 into the scum pile, and zero other players.-
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That was probably my least favorite part of that post tbhIn post 321, Shello and Goodbye wrote: revisiting this i think if dan is a wolf it's very funny to reference someone's goodfellas award to bolster a vote-
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You had an exact number of name placements you were disagreeing with.In post 324, morph the cat wrote: specific?
I don't know. It seemed unaware of the content of pooky's prior posts in a way that seemed particularly out of character for you. I was worried that it could be that you are scum, and was hoping to get you to voice what lead you to making that post, so I could judge that instead of trying to just guess at how you got there, but it feels like you have been dancing around that question.You've put some thought into matching Pooky's list to what was going on during the first few pages. I think you know me as a player about as well as you do Pooky. How does my taking partial exception to Pooky's list fit with your understanding of my playstyle?-
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Not that I think you would be unaware as scum. But that the content might not influence the directions you take as much.
So, the "post" seemed unaware. Not necessarily that "you" seemed unaware.-
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I feel like I have been bamboozled in this conversation some howIn post 330, morph the cat wrote: Well, I got what I wanted out of this convo, and so did Cabd. Consider your day 3 ticket punched.-
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I regret to inform everyone (especially firebringer) that I believe firebringer to be town-
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I'm currently on Actiondan.In post 404, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: luke my boy who do you think is mafia rn im too lazy to look at the vote count-
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I think that the following players have achieved a day 1 pass from me so far:
morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd)
Firebringer
marcistar
Oblivion
Save The Dragons
Ydrasse
Cat Scratch Fever
Sorted by playerlist order, not strength of read. Although, I think that Marci is the only one that has a greater then day 1 pass atm.-
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imitation is the greatest form of flattery, or so ive heard, so youre welcome-
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morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd) -- the way that ffery uno reverse carded my questioning in order to instead get a read on me jedi mind tricked me into thinking she could be town.In post 427, Dunnstral wrote: Can I ask why for players other than Marci here?
Firebringer -- I liked the dichotomy presented in 384, where he shot down the assertion that you have been tonally off this game, but then doubled down on the fact that he is leaning scum on you for unrelated reasons. I also agree with his tonal take fwiw, your tone has seemed innocuous to me.
marcistar
Oblivion -- I liked the way it jumped into serious questioning early, and liked the prods being made. I also liked the way it prodded at people town reading it. And just its general tone while rebuffing CSF's suspicions.
Save The Dragons -- probably the silliest one, and one I would have left unsaid and just waited for newer and better reasons to town/scum read them if not asked, but it was him leaving a wagon with the naked morph vote, followed by 365 saying it was just for funzies. My heart said that that was town.
Ydrasse -- I still vibe with her opening post being townie, her immediate suspicion on me reminded me of our last game together where she was suspicious of me for giving her early town points for *vibes,* and then our back and forth on fireisred sir felt right.
Cat Scratch Fever -- Miller claim + I liked the way they questioned Oblivion, even if I disagreed with it, it looked kinda genuine to me.-
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to be fair, the conversation about pooky's readlist was not actually about pooky or his reads listIn post 435, marcistar wrote: The pookys readlist? Animal crew? Clearly jokes why is it 3ven being debated.-
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yes. I have yet to see a miller claim flip mafia. Not even in the game where there was a miller counter claim lol.In post 447, Dunnstral wrote: Thumbs up. Do you think miller claims are more likely to come from town?
I would not give the claim on its own to carry the read past like day 1, but its enough for now. Plus I have kinda liked their posting since then too, so-
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I think I have seen marci use the phrase "I'm so scared" more times then I could possibly count lolIn post 443, Shello and Goodbye wrote: also marci why do you keep reiterating that you're scared specifically
i think worried maybe is like "reasonable" i guess to me but repeatedly saying that youre scared is ?_? a bit to me
or is it just hyperbole
p-edit VOTE: marcistar
In games, in scum chats, in discord conversations, ect
She just be saying that.-
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I... actually think that the last like 2 pages of posts from marci, I would be a bit suspicious of.
But I feel really good about the way that she opened the game with the hoods, so I am still leaning town, but maybe not "townbin for the rest of the game" confident anymore-
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That is an overall town read that you are responding to bestie.In post 502, marcistar wrote:
If u sr me do it with ur whole chest not just ur bellybutton.In post 498, Lukewarm wrote: I... actually think that the last like 2 pages of posts from marci, I would be a bit suspicious of.
But I feel really good about the way that she opened the game with the hoods, so I am still leaning town, but maybe not "townbin for the rest of the game" confident anymore-
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At what point did you think this?In post 536, Spiffeh wrote:At the timeI felt like Luke was a little too accepting of Morph as Town after that interaction
Like "yay Morph is townreading me now let me return the favor so they get off my back"-
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This is literally the opposite of what happened lolIn post 570, Spiffeh wrote: Your interaction with Luke felt like that thing you do in your town games where you engage with someone you potentially suspect heavily to either cement or shake yourself out of the read.
It's why I felt your slot came out townier in that exchange.
*I* engaged with *them* because they did something that I potentially suspected.
At no point did I think that they were scum reading me. I felt like I started at Null-
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I am confused on what could have been said in the hood, where they are seemingly confident has a scum in it, that is then beneficial to not transfer over. Scum already have that info, no?-
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I did not put together what is happening until reading this post, but I think I now understand.In post 615, morph the cat wrote: I refuse to believe that Pooky doesn't know exactly what is going on here with all of the clues. This is like "help dora the explorer figure out which train to ride" level of easy given everything itt already.-
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You do realize that the entire premise of a dethy is that there is a scum in there, so we are not "outing" anything to the scum team. They knew before anyone outside of the dethy knew.In post 626, Hermit Crab wrote: Okay we’re just outting it, fan fucking tastic-
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Morph, would a goon placed into a dethy hood be informed that they are in dethy hood?-
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I actually looked back that the game yall linked, and in that game the mafia in the dethy was given a fake claim that also spelled out what was happening.In post 667, morph the cat wrote:
Traditionally? Unsure.In post 661, Lukewarm wrote: Morph, would a goon placed into a dethy hood be informed that they are in dethy hood?
WIth this mod? Yes.-
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I see. The wiki called for a goon in the dethy, but now I realize that it was for a 5 man job, so this did not matter.In post 674, morph the cat wrote: It would be super powerful for a goon to be able to tell their team who the cops of unknown sanities are, though. Not sure how to balance something like that.-
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So, uh, would you say that that would incentivize a traitor to out the full list of people in the hood to the main thread...?In post 674, morph the cat wrote: It would be super powerful for a goon to be able to tell their team who the cops of unknown sanities are, though-
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My issue is that the mental math I did to townbin Marci was on the basis that if she was mafia, that would mean she was a full member of the mafia, in a 5 man (non-dethy) hood, who needed to live x number of nights to help out her team. And in that position, I absolutely do not think that she would out her hood, and declare that we should kill someone in the hood. I don't think that she would want to take on that fight, and it seems to serve only to make her more likely to die before reward time.In post 692, morph the cat wrote:
Possibly. But the thing about a deAthy is that it pretty much never stays under wraps. I would expect anyone who has played with one before to not worry about it. But if they were new to the concept, yes, I could see an urgency to start talking about it while also hinting that it is one to the main thread.In post 688, Lukewarm wrote:
So, uh, would you say that that would incentivize a traitor to out the full list of people in the hood to the main thread...?In post 674, morph the cat wrote: It would be super powerful for a goon to be able to tell their team who the cops of unknown sanities are, though
But the math changes once we add the possibility of a traitor who wants to out their info to the main squad.
And I kinda feel like the whole foundation of my marci read is crumbling around me.-
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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Im not thinking in large terms. Im thinking in marci terms atm.In post 705, morph the cat wrote:
Two games isn't a ton of experience, but that's not what I've seen two traitors do in my dethy games. One traitor arguably played terribly though.In post 688, Lukewarm wrote:
So, uh, would you say that that would incentivize a traitor to out the full list of people in the hood to the main thread...?In post 674, morph the cat wrote: It would be super powerful for a goon to be able to tell their team who the cops of unknown sanities are, though
I'm trying to think more "writ large", but it kinda feels like staring into a hall of mirrors.-
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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CSF is not in the dethyIn post 183, marcistar wrote: Myself, actiondan, sunflower, klick and dragons i think is all-
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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@sunflowerIn post 188, marcistar wrote: Also sunflower saying theres exactly 1 is a bit wonky but i think the "1 or 0" is farrr worse
When you said exactly 1, had you already figured out that it was a dethy?-
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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Its just: The Police Department
and marci didnt realize it was full of cops, smh.-
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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There was a small moment between "suck it guys, all the cool kids are solving in the hood now" and "oh, its a dethy!" where I kinda vibed with that Dann post.In post 846, morph the cat wrote:In post 594, Dannflor wrote: anyone outside the hood and not exceedingly bored right now is scum
Why did you feel town would be bored by the curtain parting on the dethy?
I actually typed out a "It sure feels nice to spectate a game" post, before deleting it.-
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Lukewarm Paragon of Mafia Hunters
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