Shell Game (Night 4)

[Sunflower]

VOTE: pooky

hi pooky

[Sunflower]

firebagel town for being funny

[Sunflower]

firebagel town for being funny

you didn't both need to scum-claim on page 1

well firebringer was supposed to but he isn't here rn so i had to cover for him

[Sunflower]

earl grey ice cream is tasty

[Sunflower]

firing the cops

say no more. you have my vote. can't trust em

[Sunflower]

im in pookybucks debt i need to make some back

[Sunflower]

im in pookybucks debt i need to make some back

how so?

i put good money on my favorite duck and he didn't pull through. i was devastated

[Sunflower]

i think dunnstral is a bit towny

[Sunflower]

dunn sounds like normal dunn to me and i think he feels towny bc he put his cute avatar back on

[Sunflower]

I have similar concerns about fireisredsir.

*WE* have concerns, simultaneously and independently!


Fire seems to have taken the "Jupiter in a scum slot fluffyness" and made it a part of himself right now. And I don't like it one little itty bitty bit.

Grrrrrrr.

i was fluffier entering kemusan which you both saw so this is an interesting take

[Sunflower]

And I don't like it one little itty bitty bit.

Spoiler: Wherein Cabd Waxes Poetic about his theories of the evolution of multi-game lasting hydrae

But Cabd, WHYYYYYY is this a bad thing? Don't players sorta of enjoy melding with their partners over time? Aren't you a hydra who won't sign because you expect everyone else to figure out when you impersonate each other anyways?


To those questions, I say....

It's a bad thing because this is still within the first ten games together. At that stage, melding to the degree of one player taking the other's style and running with it is something you FORCE, to muddle the waters in an innocent looking way, and cover for your now-publicly-known scumslip-posting partner.

Yes, they do, but the key phrase there is "over time"

"Yes, skill issue if you don't get us nyeh~"

In that order, more or less.

Spoiler:

timelines run quick sometimes

but also this just isn't really an accurate assessment. im always like this, or can be, depending on mood. i don't think im taking jupiter's style here

[Sunflower]

What has snagged your attention so far?

actiondan is interesting to me. feel safe leaning town for now i think although scum is possible

pooky a little towny

dunn a little towny although his willingness to elaborate so much on reads already was quite surprising to me. i don't think it's scummy though, just surprising

y'all i think feel eager to dig into things which is probably a good enough sign for now that id rather let you do that, although i think the point on me is one that feels misapplied

if i were to put a bet on a scum rn i think id guess STD. that's based on almost nothing however id still take the pookybucks

firebagel feels likely to be readable given time so not worried there rn

[Sunflower]

1. What makes morph and Dunn's takes about your fluffiness "interesting" and how does this inform your read on them?
2. Can you go into more detail on the ActionDan read?

1. morph was using one data point to make a bad read ("fire being fluffy = scum copying jupiter's style in order to cover for him" is just not good in a lot of ways) and i expect better of them particularly when they have access to a second data point that would make the read not make sense and they ignored it. by "interesting" i meant bad. i thought it was scummy at first but eh maybe not. dunn has also played with me a decent amount but his read didn't bother me, maybe because it sounded more gut

2. don't wanna

[Sunflower]

i will gladly and eagerly allow wolf ydra to white knight me. ydra locktown for life

[Sunflower]

Also sunflower saying theres exactly 1 is a bit wonky but i think the "1 or 0" is farrr worse

I find marci's paranoia and handling of the hood info to be townie.

Gold star for marci

ditto'd

kinda curious if there's been conversations in the hood around claiming this?

no we didn't talk about very much aside from about melville. wait god ugh hold on

[Sunflower]

1. What makes morph and Dunn's takes about your fluffiness "interesting" and how does this inform your read on them?
2. Can you go into more detail on the ActionDan read?

1. morph was using one data point to make a bad read ("fire being fluffy = scum copying jupiter's style in order to cover for him" is just not good in a lot of ways) and i expect better of them particularly when they have access to a second data point that would make the read not make sense and they ignored it. by "interesting" i meant bad. i thought it was scummy at first but eh maybe not. dunn has also played with me a decent amount but his read didn't bother me, maybe because it sounded more gut

2. i would prefer not to

ebwop

[Sunflower]

ok anyway yeah i don't mind the claim of the hood. imo hoods are kinda bad to keep hidden generally i think since scum already know about it. 0 scum in the hood seems pretty unlikely to me

[Sunflower]

i think i generally am happy to answer the questions that people ask of em unless im being a bartlebypilled scrivencel

[Sunflower]

i hope theres 0 wolves in the hood i think it would be the funniest choice

i think that by flavor of this game, the hood members can probably switch around

i thought so too

[Sunflower]

lukewarm is lining up with my mental Picture of lukewarm i think

[Sunflower]

i didn't really like the CSF post about oblivion at all but i think i don't agree with dan about suspecting her for the miller claim. im probably not gonna give that much weight i think

[Sunflower]

i didn't really like the CSF post about oblivion at all but i think i don't agree with dan about suspecting her for the miller claim. im probably not gonna give that much weight i think

explain?

csf scum i think has a way of zeroing in on things that look kinda surface level correct to push on and the post reminded me of that. i think when she's town i tend to agree with her takes more and the solving feels more natural

for the other part it's mostly that i am not mechbrained and i am starting to get the nagging worry that a lot of the solving of this game is going to go way over my head help im scared

[Sunflower]

if anyone would like to volunteer to be our mechanical chaperone here i will locktown you and follow whatever you say

[Sunflower]

that's so sad... but probably true idk. i have definitely been gloomy at times. i think i have also been more free-spirited at other times but usually like in dance games or micros. i don't think there's a conscious difference but i also would be surprised if there wasn't one

[Sunflower]

that is to say im not making any effort to play in a way that is different than usual. i think the vibe of my posting especially when town tends to be reflective of my mood. as scum it's more manufactured for whatever goal i may have at the time

[Sunflower]

do you feel like you've always acted this.. idk i don't want to say my idea of fireisredsir is 'gloomy' really but you seem like you're more free-spirited recently so im just curious if theres a difference now in how youre approaching games

i would say that something similar applies to you. here you're a lot more asserting your presence and being forthcoming than i've come to expect lately but i think there's reason to believe that you are just feeling more talkative than you have been so im choosing not to ascribe it to alignment although instinctively it made me a little wary at first

i also i guess think it's something that shouldn't be discouraged game-wise since it moves things along in a positive direction and personally-wise because it's nice so i am somewhat disinclined to want to meet it with suspicion

[Sunflower]

thanks dann you too

[Sunflower]

actually im posting extremely townily because i am town

[Sunflower]

I'm a little more concerned about another player in this game who sports the goodfellas banner from Mafia Invictus.

this made me realize we should have invited gammagoey and had a reunion

[Sunflower]

i am hesitant to make excuses for actiondan as im not sure that he's town but i think that both the read on marci and on csf make sense given the mindset that i am presuming he has, and i dont think they're especially surface level

[Sunflower]

i think pooky would actually genuinely scumread people off page 1-2 rvs banter

[Sunflower]

this hood gets info if there are no scums in it by a certain point in time

no, something beneficial to mafia happens if there are still scum in it by a certain point in time

[Sunflower]

i sort of think dann could be doing the thing that he's saying AD is doing but like, one level up

[Sunflower]

i think marci is scum lol

[Sunflower]

VOTE: marci

[Sunflower]

did you think dannflor was lying...?

[Sunflower]

For Sunflower I was a little off-put about how they reacted to Morph vs how they reacted to me when there was early suspicion, and they say it was because my read was more "gut"

why do you think this makes me more likely to be scum

[Sunflower]

people keep being overly eager to paint meta reads off incomplete/inaccurate data with no shame or concern whatsoever and the fact that some of them are doing it as town is annoying

[Sunflower]

For Sunflower I was a little off-put about how they reacted to Morph vs how they reacted to me when there was early suspicion, and they say it was because my read was more "gut"

why do you think this makes me more likely to be scum

I feel you were being more wary of Morph as if you were more afraid of them and so that's why you responded more in depth to them. And you had already called me town so maybe it was harder to pivot away from that.

that's fair enough

i do think it's more disruptive to the thread overall if morph tunnels me incorrectly so there probably is an element of that

mostly though it was that their read made a more specific point that i thought was evidently wrong. yours was kinda vague

[Sunflower]

people keep being overly eager to paint meta reads off incomplete/inaccurate data with no shame or concern whatsoever and the fact that some of them are doing it as town is annoying

bruh I am going to shamelessly do 0 effort this game and simply read people off my mood and how their avatar looks at me

that's valid and i respect that

[Sunflower]

that's valid and i respect that

is jups gonna post this game or what

ya he's been busy

[Sunflower]

people keep being overly eager to paint meta reads off incomplete/inaccurate data with no shame or concern whatsoever and the fact that some of them are doing it as town is annoying

this is especially annoying when ur scum and the meta reads are accurate imo

i was referring to reads on other people as the ones that annoyed me

[Sunflower]

people keep being overly eager to paint meta reads off incomplete/inaccurate data with no shame or concern whatsoever and the fact that some of them are doing it as town is annoying

this is especially annoying when ur scum and the meta reads are accurate imo

i was referring to reads on other people as the ones that annoyed me

This response is perhaps too self conscious based off of what Dannflor said. It wasn't pointed at you but you feel defensive about it.

it was absolutely pointed at me wdym

[Sunflower]

i think marci is scum lol

What made you say this?

her post right before that + a post in hood

[Sunflower]

people keep being overly eager to paint meta reads off incomplete/inaccurate data with no shame or concern whatsoever and the fact that some of them are doing it as town is annoying

Who are you sub tweeting here?

spiffeh and morph mostly

i think there was a third that made it feel like a pattern but idr who

[Sunflower]

people keep being overly eager to paint meta reads off incomplete/inaccurate data with no shame or concern whatsoever and the fact that some of them are doing it as town is annoying

this is especially annoying when ur scum and the meta reads are accurate imo

i was referring to reads on other people as the ones that annoyed me

This response is perhaps too self conscious based off of what Dannflor said. It wasn't pointed at you but you feel defensive about it.

it was absolutely pointed at me wdym

My thoughts were that you reacted to Dannflor saying it's especially annoying when you're scum and assumed they were talking about you.

Thouh I can see how you could interperet it as Dannflor taking a jab at you.

yes that is what dann was saying

[Sunflower]

hold up something very funny is happening you all are less important than the hood

[Sunflower]

because i wanted to give people fomo

[Sunflower]

UNVOTE:

[Sunflower]

it's slightly more complicated than what is the obvious assumption

[Sunflower]

Okay we’re just outting it, fan fucking tastic

what's the concern

[Sunflower]

i wanna explain things but some people don't like that for some reason zzzzzzzzz

[Sunflower]

std

gap

marci
klick
AD

i think?

[Sunflower]

AD is also the victim of being the only one not currently active so take that with a grain of salt because i am definitely biased towards whoever is talking at the moment

[Sunflower]

Also sunflower saying theres exactly 1 is a bit wonky but i think the "1 or 0" is farrr worse

@sunflower

When you said exactly 1, had you already figured out that it was a dethy?

ok im clarifying some timeline things, i think its just confusing to not have things more fully explained in thread

- we got the role pm, i was like "wtf is this role". talk to jupiter about it a lil bit. game starts

- actiondan says he thinks 0 or 1 scum in hood

- i crumbed in hood (posted a meme about unreliable narrators) and in thread with 49, around the same time. i probably wouldn't have crumbed if i thought there were multiple of this role but i was just thinking about myself and thought it could be a good idea to do

- actiondan immediately afterwards very heavily was hinting that he understood the crumbs and was townreading me for it

- so i was like ok hm actiondan recognizes these. i don't think the crumbs were like super obvious on their own so i think he's signaling to me that he has the same role. kinda weird how strongly he's signaling to me but okay

- i connect the dots that there's 4 possibilities for reliability (the four options are stated in our pm), apparently at least one other hood member has the same role, and there's 5 people in the hood. i think it would make sense if there's 4 people and each of us has one of the reliabilities and we don't know which is which

- i post in hood a few minutes later that i think that 1 scum in our hood feels elegant

- this all happened within an hour of gamestart

- nobody else really reacts to any of the role related stuff which i found a little strange/surprising

- at some point i realize scum probably has to be informed somehow about the roles cause otherwise things would be too easy

- AD was the first one to explicitly mention our weird roles and implied that he thought we all had them, when explaining reasoning for 0 or 1 scum in hood

- klick asks why he thinks that we all have weird roles, std is like i have a weird role, i say scum must be somehow aware of things, jupiter says we should massclaim, AD says he assumes we all have it based on him noticing me crumbing his same role

- marci starts talking about how her role is powerful and i get suspicious of her and think she is scum who doesn't have full info so i want her to claim first

- i propose claim order with marci klick std AD us

- we kinda skip that part and people start talking more explicitly about like, hey i think i know what's going on here. klick and std and i all talk about the theory of each of us being the 4 options of reliability. marci is catching on. std is the first to explicitly mention dethy, klick agrees that's what's happening, me and marci are like "idk how dethy works or what that is". it gets explained

- for the record i have vaguely heard of dethy and looked it up once bc hellbooks kept memeing about it in a coalition game but i did not remember how it worked and didn't realize that was necessarily what was going on until std pointed it out

- after that point we're talking pretty openly. i think that the way std's thought process visibly developed in the hood looks really towny and is very well-faked if mafia. i think looking back at it again now, marci's is also pretty towny. AD i am like a little wary that his signaling to me/townreading to me was strange given his apparent mindset that scum would also be informed. klick and AD are the most suspicious to me, probably klick more at this point

[Sunflower]

i already am basically caught up but gonna skim through to see if there's any more explicit questions and then update reads

[Sunflower]

cause y'all have gone through 49 pages in less than 24 hours and he's been busy for almost all of that time so idk if he's even looked at main thread

ive kept him caught up on the role stuff but not much else

[Sunflower]

klick has just felt kinda positional play in response to all of this and is just not approaching things in the way i tend to expect him to solve. i think he tends to feel really pretty measured and reasonable and confident in his ability to read people and here he feels put on the back foot and the reads don't feel like they're coming naturally

[Sunflower]

klick has just felt kinda positional play in response to all of this and is just not approaching things in the way i tend to expect him to solve. i think he tends to feel really pretty measured and reasonable and confident in his ability to read people and here he feels put on the back foot and the reads don't feel like they're coming naturally

Have you played with scum-Klick before?

yeah, a lot more experience with town!klick though

i did also see that he won a scumgame that ended quite recently where he was intending to level up his scumplay, but i haven't read it closely yet, just a skim

i think that under normal circumstances i would have him in a "wait and see" position in my reads

[Sunflower]

Is there anything noteworthy in the neighborhood that doesn't have to do with neighborhood mechanics or roles?

not really i think. marci's mindset generally tracks with outside the thread, and STD shows what feels like a towny one to me

marci put me and klick and herself in the mean girls car which made me laugh. pretty noteworthy

[Sunflower]

as for main thread, crab and oblivion probably the biggest winners from this for me. both feel solidly town

dunnstral also i think felt pretty towny to me in his reactions to all this

pooky feels pretty on his own and i think the frustration over wasting thread space feels towny. a lot of the stuff with oblivion i think is pretty nai although i think sitting down and trying to sort things out was pro-town

spiffeh i think has been scummy

morph im not really at all sold on but if they're right on spiffeh then they're probably town i guess idk

luke i don't think has been exceptionally towny but i think it feels like he is trying to figure things out and approaching with curiosity rather than wanting to control things and that's enough for a townlean

firebringer posts have made very little effect on me and im not sure what that means for his alignment

[Sunflower]

i also would just like to state for the record that given the theme of this game i do not trust that we can predict how things are going to play out mechanically and i also think 1020 feels like a very forced read on things and potentially an agenda'd push to downplay concerns about the shell game aspect

[Sunflower]

Tell us more.

i had the same read on the cred trade AD post which like mildly annoyed me lol

i think in general it felt like he was trying to insert himself into the conversation and have reactions to the things that were happening but it didn't feel like a natural town approach

i do not think i have more detailed analysis at this time it's kind of a vibe thing

[Sunflower]

morph im not really at all sold on but if they're right on spiffeh then they're probably town i guess idk

So you mind meld with our spiffeh take, but we're town only if it's a correct take? Nothing else coming from our slot has been indicative one direction or the other?

the first of those statements is accurate

you're somewhat more likely to be town if spiffeh is scum. you're very likely to be town if spiffeh and AD are both scum

you have over 200 posts. many of them have been indicative in one direction or the other

[Sunflower]

we don't know anything, we're not authorities on whether or not it's a dethy, why make that appeal?

[Sunflower]

also we didn't decide it's a dethy we were like "hey this is kinda like dethy". which. it isn't dethy. can we stop pretending it's dethy im so tired

[Sunflower]

klick has just felt kinda positional play in response to all of this and is just not approaching things in the way i tend to expect him to solve. i think he tends to feel really pretty measured and reasonable and confident in his ability to read people and here he feels put on the back foot and the reads don't feel like they're coming naturally

1. I am always positional
2. I am almost never confident

1. i don't agree at all, at least in the way i was using the term. i used it to mena that your reads felt like they were being made in order to put yourself in the place you needed to be rather than coming naturally from posts

2. confident isn't the right word exactly, i think self-assured is better? not that you are sure your reads are correct, but that you tend to seem unbothered by outside forces and content to solve in your own way

[Sunflower]

people keep being overly eager to paint meta reads off incomplete/inaccurate data with no shame or concern whatsoever and the fact that some of them are doing it as town is annoying

Who are you sub tweeting here?

spiffeh and morph mostly

i think there was a third that made it feel like a pattern but idr who

@Sunflower I asked this earlier but didn't see a response, who were you referring to when you said that some of them are doing it as town?

it felt in the moment like a lot of people were doing it (too many for all of them to believably be scum) and i don't remember who else was if any and i don't really care

[Sunflower]

also we didn't decide it's a dethy we were like "hey this is kinda like dethy". which. it isn't dethy. can we stop pretending it's dethy im so tired

I'm kind of confused. do you not think there's 1 scum in the hood anymore?

i didn't ever think it was a for sure thing. i said it was the most elegant. but i am not particularly willing to take it for granted that we can make assumptions here

[Sunflower]

I'm concerned about Sunflower too. Would very much like to conclude at least one of Klick, Sunflower are town before much longer.

Hello, it's me

I don't understand the scumreads on me further than 'these are things that are surface-level scummy that I also do frequently as town, and people have to tie themselves to what they recognise regardless of context'

Sunflower is actually scum but posts in a less scumread-able way

if you're actually saying that you are confident that im scum here that's fairly outing. are you committing to that read?

[Sunflower]

idk i still think shell game means that there's a power to swap people in and out of the hoods

[Sunflower]

i think that town!klick is capable of finding scum!me. he did it very well recently

i think regardless of alignment he knows that he doesn't have reason to think im scum here

the difference is that i think if he's town he would also know that if we're both town there's a decent chance we can find each other. the fact that he doesn't have reason to think im scum would make him doubt. im on the other side here, not fully confident that klick is scum, and that makes me question AD and marci

the way that his reads on AD and marci progressed from hesitancy/uncertainty to full-on confidence isn't supported and just isn't really believable to me coming from town!klick

this is what i mean by calling the play positional. i think that those reads became solidified out of necessity and not out of justified reason. and i don't think that's how town!klick plays

[Sunflower]

it's been unexplicitly said at this point multiple times and i think it's frankly dumb to not just make it clear so btw, we aren't straight up cops, we are inventors who give out cop shots of unknown sanity

so it's like one step removed from dethy i guess idk

[Sunflower]

The thing I find most concerning about you personally is that your descriptions of my play don't match up with how I think of my own play at all.

Like the thing just now about going from hesitancy/uncertainty to full-on confidence on marci and STD (not ActionDan, I don’t think that matches my progression there?). I... do stuff like that all the time? When I have a reason to think someone is town, I tend towards hard-committal. I think that's one of my defining traits as a player.

i think you do that on a temporary basis when sorting things broadly in order to narrow your focus but i don't think i've seen you do it when eliminating candidates in a small poe

can you explain your progression on AD and marci then? what took you from unsure to hard committing?

[Sunflower]

invention is just a 1-shot, we target at night, so they would receive it at end of night, so they'd have to use it the next night

[Sunflower]

elaborate?

be more specific

[Sunflower]

Wait, where was this warning from Ceph?

it was stated at gamestart in our hood

[Sunflower]

it's been unexplicitly said at this point multiple times and i think it's frankly dumb to not just make it clear so btw, we aren't straight up cops, we are inventors who give out cop shots of unknown sanity

so it's like one step removed from dethy i guess idk

[Sunflower]

elaborate?

be more specific

Mostly this part:

the way that his reads on AD and marci progressed from hesitancy/uncertainty to full-on confidence isn't supported and just isn't really believable to me coming from town!klick

purely summary:

after the point where we started talking openly in hood, we then started talking a bit about reads. i stated some concerns about AD and said i townread STD the most. klick said he agreed on std and was hesitating to call marci town but wanted to. he had some confusion on AD's townread of me that got talked about, but it seems like it wasn't a suspicion although i was confused by that at first

in main thread, as of about 12h prior to that, he had AD crossed out in 168, with the rest of us in the middle section

589 (around the time of stating reads in hood) says gth sunflower

682 has us ordered std, marci, AD, sunflower which seems to indicate either way more confidence on marci than there just was, or some wavering/uncertainty on AD

and by 962 everyone except me is a townread, and now apparently very confident/committed ones


-

i don't think the lack of expressed reasoning behind this development means it doesn't exist (and i don't believe it's scum-indicative either -- town!klick often will shift reads without explaining why) but i also just don't really believe that it did happen that way. doesn't feel like there was enough to support that change. that's why i asked for an explanation of the progression which maybe will change my view on it but he also ignored the question the first time it was asked so

[Sunflower]

ill be honest though part of me is still scumreading every post marci makes

[Sunflower]

sort of at the part where i asked her in hood why she said she had a powerful role and her answer was like, oh i thought cop was powerful?

[Sunflower]

ill be honest though part of me is still scumreading every post marci makes

which ones or why

idk all of them just feel made up to me

maybe im not used to reformed marci but its like

this doesn't feel like something you would care about

like the uwu morph im nervous to ask why is oblivion town. and asking about cakez. idk it reminds me of her mindset when we were scum together

i should probably go read the MU game she linked that might help

[Sunflower]

sort of at the part where i asked her in hood why she said she had a powerful role and her answer was like, oh i thought cop was powerful?

what do you think a wolf marci would intend by that

well that is why i am not pushing marci i don't really think her play necessarily makes more sense as wolf it just is hard for me to see it as real

but i think it's more likely for that to just be like. a miscalibrated gut. but i would also feel dumb if she did end up being scum and i didn't bring it up so im doing that

[Sunflower]

ill be honest though part of me is still scumreading every post marci makes

sort of at the part where i asked her in hood why she said she had a powerful role and her answer was like, oh i thought cop was powerful?

what do you think a wolf marci would intend by that

well that is why i am not pushing marci i don't really think her play necessarily makes more sense as wolf it just is hard for me to see it as real

but i think it's more likely for that to just be like. a miscalibrated gut. but i would also feel dumb if she did end up being scum and i didn't bring it up so im doing that

i guess these two posts feel to me like dissonant in what you actually feel about marci but idk it’s kind of the same thing with klick potentially keeping himself safe by 0 wolf theory but you choose to open the poe instead of shut it off if that makes sense

my brain is dissonant in what i feel about marci yes that's what i was trying to explain

and yea im aware of that, but idk if that really would help me here with 6 votes on klick and the slot with the most thread control hard shielding marci. if i wanted to keep the poe more open id talk about how i think it could be AD. which i do btw

[Sunflower]

hmm
what do you think about the thread dynamics atm

that’s vague but i think you get what i mean by asking

at best, generally unhealthy. at worst, ehhhhh. seems like a for later problem i guess

[Sunflower]

errant mech thought is that even if i gave the idea and klick flack earlier for the suggestion of 0 wolves is it possible that wolves can be switched into that neighborhood to get the benefits or is the wording explicit about their current presence

it isn't necessarily that the mafia in the hood get a benefit. it's that if there are mafia in the thread at the trigger point, something happens that benefits mafia. i read it as something that helps them as a whole rather than individually but idk could be either way

i also think that switching around feels likely

[Sunflower]

yeah the more i think about it, the more i think town/scum dan probably thinks the miller claim is sus anyways so it might not be indicative of anything. Caught for wrong reasons perhaps.

I feel like dan knows more about the setup than he should but that is just my gut talking.

see 1215, AD had info that there was more going on than just his own role bc he noticed my crumbs

[Sunflower]

isn't firebagel doctor drew?

no

[Sunflower]

isn't firebagel doctor drew?

no

how would u know!
U didn't put any points into detection
all ur points are in being cutesy

i put all my points into detection. im the best alt guesser on site

[Sunflower]

5 feels like the least likely option to me

[Sunflower]

i thought bingle was very definitely joking

[Sunflower]

i feel like luke expressing his sadness that nobody talked about his post is alignment indicative

i did read it, but didn't have anything i wanted to say about it

[Sunflower]

i think dann is probably correct about bagel regardless of his alignment

[Sunflower]

VOTE: firebringer

[Sunflower]

i think it doesn't take much of a leap to figure out that hermit crab is cabal even if you haven't read

[Sunflower]

@sunflowers and Klick, do either of you have an opinion about my alignment yet

not a strong one

your opening felt scummy to me but i think lately you've felt background more in a town way

i think you're not making a show of evaluating things but still doing it which is fairly towny imo

so i guess light townread for now

[Sunflower]

i think i decided marci is town again

[Sunflower]

that's a surprising thing for you to miss lol

it's been talked about a decent amount and it's not a particularly novel idea regardless

[Sunflower]

speaking of tmi i thought it was more likely that if a scum player saw someone make an obvious joke about a role, if they knew that player was town they might be more likely to think they're being honest

originally this was a thought about csf but

[Sunflower]

it sure doesn't feel like you've thought very hard

[Sunflower]

1247 - While I did not like 1242, I also don't like sunflower's response to 1242. I don't think of fire as someone who is gonna go "If you think I am scum, you must be scum." Especially because it is presented as like a calm but serious take. Also don't like the question at the end? If he actually thinks it outing, why not let him walk into outing himself? All together this gives vibes of gearing up to what he thinks is in inevitable 1v1.

I also don't think that the reasoning that he presents in 1256 even backs up that claim. Town!Klick can find scum!me, so if he is calling me scum here, then he must be scum. It doesn't flow? More like he is pushing a square geg into a circle hole to support the claim.

i think there is approximately a 0% chance that town!klick would be genuinely fully confident on a scumread on me in that situation. not even because it's wrong, just based on what i know is in the thread and me having an understanding of how he thinks. im not saying "you're wrong so you're scum", im saying "we both know this isn't real". maybe you're right that it's not optimal approach if he is scum but i was pretty taken aback by him saying it in the first place

bringing up town!klick finding scum!me was for the context of me knowing the process that he very openly and clearly showed when doing that, and so i understand what town!klick developing a scumread on me looks like. i don't think it looks like this

i do think that some of this, like, "what is this, this isn't the town!klick i know" that i was feeling could be coming from what he explained later as him being somewhat out of sorts and in a different headspace than usual. so i want to give him space and let him come back to thread and refresh his reads etc because again i still think that if he's town then we have the chance to find each other

also someone at some point (csf?) asked why i thought scum!klick would feel forced into scumreading me here and i have thought about that and i think it maybe is a point that has some merit. it seemed like the read felt forced to me at the time but it is true that scum!klick could conceivably have other routes there. idk

[Sunflower]

inevitable 1v1.

Note that they JUST saw this exact scenario as scum in Midscummer's, from Dunn/Gif scum hydra against Alisae/Maria town hydra.

pretty hard to believe that you're making this comparison in good faith

[Sunflower]

1) the two situations are not alike at all. that was a mechanical counterclaim. this is there's probably a scum in this group of 5 and two people in it suspect each other

2) it implies that i wouldn't know what a 1v1 looks like if i hadn't just seen one which is vaguely insulting lol

[Sunflower]

it's a lot closer to being scum in the coalition which i just played as scum, with klick

[Sunflower]

fairly sure dunn is aware of that pattern already but i think he's town anyway

[Sunflower]

Should I be treating you as just fire, btw? I've seen hide nor hare of the Juniper Berries.

he'll join at some point

[Sunflower]

in what ways does that show itself differently from town trying to find scum?

[Sunflower]

tbh if i were scum i wouldn't be worried about winning a 1v1 with anyone in my hood

[Sunflower]

tbh if i were scum i wouldn't be worried about winning a 1v1 with anyone in my hood

Why not?

doesn't sound like something that would worry me

[Sunflower]

VOTE: csf

[Sunflower]

VOTE: csf

why?

firebringer is feeling a little better to me and you haven't seemed towny yet

[Sunflower]

town: [oblivion, hermit crab]

town for now, maybe revisit later: [pooky, shello, dunnstral]

townlean: [marci, std]

light townlean, will continually revisit: [dannflor, luke]

low content but gut leans a little towny: [firebagel, gypyx...?]

the rest also sort of fit into tiers for me but im not feeling particularly great about any scumreads so i will leave this as a town half readlist

[Sunflower]

i was #townily thinking about the game earlier today and was wondering if this is the sort of game where wolves are just unable to really break into the like 'towny' or social core enough to really do a lot and are just trying to ride it out or s/t only to get steamrolled in a few days time

let's hope so

[Sunflower]

i like having lots of tiers in my readlists is there a problem with that

[Sunflower]

Shello and Goodbye who do you think are the scum on the FB wagon if you're doubting your scum read there?

i really did not like bagels vote
the timing of it was not good. i think that while bagel might be more inclined as both alignments 2 vote for firebringer because interaction, gimmick, it was just gross 2 me. skitter feels the same

- ydra

Sorry you don't have a sense of humor, but I think getting Firepup to join his own wagon was hilarious XD

i actually didn't follow that this is what you were doing but that is p funny and looks less bad imo

[Sunflower]

Sunflower, what are your current thoughts on morph?

ffery is town and cabd is scum

[Sunflower]

why did you do 2273

[Sunflower]

i certainly did not mean to imply that morph was town

[Sunflower]

What is you reasoning behind cabd!scum?

not really interested in pursuing this atm, would be unproductive. ask me if i feel the same on like d3

[Sunflower]

don't think i said anything resembling the word null

[Sunflower]

What is you reasoning behind cabd!scum?

not really interested in pursuing this atm, would be unproductive. ask me if i feel the same on like d3

I mean, I am contemplating handing my vote to them for this day phase, because I don't feel like trying to lead, they seem townie to me, and if they are town I would trust their reads over literally anyone else in this playerlist.

And from the state of things, that would likely mean voting you.

So, it might behoove us for you to sell me on why that might not be a good plan if you are truly suspicious of them.

if they want us limmed then it's going to happen regardless of what i say

[Sunflower]

(a townie actually scum reading me is shouting that shit from the rooftops and urging the thread to stop following me blindly damn the personal consequences.)

how effective do you think that would be lol

[Sunflower]

i am absolutely a coward as town, you don't know me

[Sunflower]

shrug

probably feeling more defeatist than usual rn due to oog reasons

my bad will revisit later

[Sunflower]

fwiw fire, my town read on morph has been cracking a bit recently.

GTH, I would still call them town, and at this point I probably would still would let them aim the vote today, because if we handed them the keys and they led us to a scum elim, then that might clear things up anyways.

But that is to say, that I was genuinely reaching out to give you a chance to tell me what you see.

thanks yeah sorry i appreciate it. just realized i should not be in thread at that time

[Sunflower]

i think from that i come away with a pretty strong townread on dann

like it's definitely in theory possible he would take that prime opportunity to pocket me as mafia but i think in particular the pushing back against me vs klick as a tvt is a route he wouldn't be likely to take as scum

i also think that the way that he's played the game kind of from the frustrated sidelines prior to that matches up very well with how he would act as town who is scumreading morph but doesn't think it's useful to bring up yet. and seems like generally sort of an unproductive way to play the alignment if mafia

backing off later without making a big show of it but instead just being like "boooo they're town" is also town

i mean yeah idk. i am definitely pocketed (ty white knight dann my hero). but i think he's town. he feels towny

feel a bit better about luke as well although not as strongly. i think the main thread of my townread on luke is that he feels a little unsure of where he wants to go, in a way that seems more like he is town who is curious and prodding around and trying to sort things out. i think as mafia his posting tends to be more fixed and directed towards accomplishing goals. his posts haven't felt especially padded out for the sake of gaining leverage, instead the wordiness tends to be centered around his need to explain himself and be understood, which is more of a town trait

[Sunflower]

lmao. ffery voted you.

yes, i know

[Sunflower]

like the line of logic of

"this case is bad" ->. they should know better -> they are mafia using a bad case to go after flower who is town(?).

is ? to me because I don't know where you got "this case is bad" indicates they're mafia. if anything I'd expect them to come up with bad cases if they're town because I'd think scum!them would be more likely to think about whether this "case" even makes sense to begin with before pressing the submit button.

pooky is migrating down from "town for now will revisit later" into "hesitant townlean" bc he keeps making posts like this and im not sure if i can believe that he really believes this

[Sunflower]

bingle is fine i guess

i sort of like the way that penguin is engaging, feel more like town penguin. low data but feels decent to me so far

[Sunflower]

since marci is a current topic of discussion i will add that i am of two minds on the issue, one is feeling similarly to many of the concerns that are being brought up, posting feels kinda fake and generally idk off (i read the MU iso and it did not assuage concerns). like the thought processes don't really track for me

but the other side of it is just. the fact that she keeps posting? idk. maybe she has just lost all fear but there's been several points where she initiates a new thread of thought in a place where she really wouldn't need to, and i think that persistence in just doing her own thing is something that makes me feel she's more likely town

it's possible that comes from being encouraged/emboldened by a cheerleading support team but i dunno

[Sunflower]

VOTE: brian skies

cakez wagon is fine also i guess i think i always viscerally react negatively to slip arguments but i don't have any reason to think he's town

[Sunflower]

at some point i started feeling better about spiffeh and im not entirely sure when or why that happened

[Sunflower]

i think gypyx feels to me more like 1 player in a 22 player game than a member of a team of 5? players but it's not a strong read

[Sunflower]

i think gypyx feels to me more like 1 player in a 22 player game than a member of a team of 5? players but it's not a strong read

do you mean that she’s town or something else

i did mean town but i guess that isn't necessarily the only option. what i meant is that it feels like she is sort of lost in the largeness of the game and doesn't always know what's going on but also isn't really concerned about it cause she's just one of many. it's a mindset thing. i think in a big game like this it can be easy to feel, idk, sort of expendable/unimportant?

[Sunflower]

bingle misremembering the context of what ydra is talking about in order to call her towny for misremembering the context is pretty funny

[Sunflower]

Spoiler:

@Luke Nope

My neighborhood consists of myself, Dunnstral, Hermit Crab, Bingle, SirCakez, and Firebringer if that hasn’t been said already

is it a regular hood or is there also something extra?

Hood tracker :

Hood 1
Marci / klick / sunflower / actiondan / save the dragon

this hood gets info if there are no scums in it by a certain point in time

Hood 2 :

Dunn / Hermit / Bingle / Bakez / Firebringer

Is there a third hood

I think this is gonna be like Kemusan when i'm reading like half of the first day and then i'm alive at ELo and god i wish i would have put more effort into the early game

Is there a post recapping the whole hood situation cause i'm kinda not in the mood to dig through 40 pages

kinda surprised that cakez got a whole 4 votes with like 16 posts which are all somewhat NAI

do you think me being emotionally detached is scum indicative

o shit that's a good post

i do think it's scum indicative but the way dann is going around it kinda makes me think no

these just kinda feel like she's figuring stuff out on her own to me

her perspective on things feels limited to what's in her own brain

like seeing cakez wagon, going huh whats that about, and checking his iso and seeing nothing (because his iso doesn't really explain the slip argument that people are pushing him for)

like yeah she COULD fake that mindset as mafia if she wanted to, it's easy to do, but would she? idk feels less likely to me

[Sunflower]

idle thought that someone who initially pushed that it was best to lim within the dethy hood but then let that opinion fall away as consensus settled on being willing to look elsewhere is probably more likely to be scum who wants the time triggered benefit

not necessarily someone whose mind changed but someone who is ignoring their prior principles

idk who this applies to if anyone and im not planning to research rn

[Sunflower]

i crumbed bc i thought maybe it would be good for whoever received the invention to know it came from me so then they could like idk signal back at me some sort of result or something without either of us having to claim

i didn't really have any clue how to use the role or what it was useful for im pretty bad at weird roles, and so i figured at a minimum it couldn't hurt to crumb

[Sunflower]

Dannflor's reaction to the dethy-hood reveal is the scummiest of people active at that time imo. It was the first breakthrough moment of the game for me and helped solidify a lot of town reads, so his two posts below feel off and come from a wildly different mindset, like he's bitter that a large aspect of the game was broken open and people are town-telling all over the place?

i think this read kinda makes sense coming from someone who actually believes 1924 but i think 1924 is pretty naive and severely underestimating how easy it is for scum to blend in there (and also how they will be incredibly motivated to want to, way more than town are imo, because it's a golden opportunity to appear uninformed)

i don't get why you think scum would openly display that mindset though. like that would have to be an active choice for scum!dann to make. posts don't just happen on accident. why would he do that?

[Sunflower]

sunflower, please tell jupiter I miss him

hiiii it's jupiter! i missed you too dann
i'm getting demolished by APs at the moment so im busy getting on the grind (i am stronger than my pain...) and also i'm not playing right now because larges are too hard for me, ill be back when we have like 13-16 people... sighhh
genuinely i pulled up saw 20 pages and i was like, ill read that later, came back later & saw 70 pages and i was like. theres no way im reading all of that. day one is important but im not gonna spend like an hour or two of my time reading through so much mafia..... at least i would USUALLY but not when im about to get my butt kicked by standardized testing... ill see you in like a week though when im done w all my tests !!!!! the benefit of being in a hydra is not getting replaced for inactivity

[Sunflower]

fire did you write that post

I'm going to cry myself to sleep

[Sunflower]

jupiter didnt even say hi to me

lockscum

OH HI POOKY I didn't know you were in this game!!!!! helloooo

[Sunflower]

i generally like pooky's reads and found myself swayed by a couple of them

i think i generally disagree with spiffeh's solving approach and it makes me gut scumread him but he's probably town

[Sunflower]

i prefer brian over cakez, i think cakez has felt towny to me at times

i sort of think it's unlikely that we've managed to land two leading scum wagons but pooky made some reasonable points about them

actually pooky im curious about your thoughts on that

does the fact that there feels like a general consensus towards those two being the leading wagons give you any internal conflict about your feeling on them both being scum

i feel like you're generally a "i dont want to hope that things are that easy" person

[Sunflower]

im doing this for my firebuddy

town:
[hermit crab]
[oblivion, dunnstral, dannflor]
[shello&goodbye, lukewarm]

lean town:
[save the dragons]
[firebagel, bingle]

nulltown:
[gypyx, penguin]

conflicted:
[marci, sircakez, spiffeh, pooky, marci]

lean scum:
[morph the cat, actiondan, klick, firebringer, CSF]

scum:
[brian skies]

this readlist sucks im townreading too many people and i don't even really believe in my leanscums. something is wrong

[Sunflower]

i do not understand the points system

[Sunflower]

chat i failed my APs lol

[Sunflower]

i'll be semi-present from here on out

[Sunflower]

Does your high school have reciprocity with a local university? I know when I "failed" my AP class, it still counted as a "C" grade completion from my local community college.

idk lol! I have straight As in the class itself but I want a 5 on the exam. So if all else fails I'll retake the AP US Gov course using their offered virtual classes so I don't have to take it during actual school hours and then I still get the free test

[Sunflower]

So by "failed" do you actually mean "I got a 4"?

idk what i actually got, but I finished the test and I'm pretty sure I bombed the multiple choice tbh. I'm fine with a 4 but my parents would kill me LOL

[Sunflower]

So by "failed" do you actually mean "I got a 4"?

idk what i actually got, but I finished the test and I'm pretty sure I bombed the multiple choice tbh. I'm fine with a 4 but my parents would kill me LOL

Ah. Tigers, or helicopters?

both

[Sunflower]

also pooky fire told me you siad you though i was scared of you where dd you say that

[Sunflower]

i don't really get why it matters if we share the list

im ok with just deciding klick can live with the list being what it is

we gave him at least one person he townreads

[Sunflower]

idk why we even would wait in the first place bc i assume the hood doesn't lock at night

[Sunflower]

last night was fun we adopted a pet wolf

[Sunflower]

oh it sounds like you all had fun too

[Sunflower]

so did everyone besides us go visit the night market or what

[Sunflower]

night market?

the other hood

[Sunflower]

hmm

[Sunflower]

we're conditional and no we don't know what the condition is it's just something that can be enabled later down the line apparently

- ydra

[Sunflower]

re: vig i think

[Sunflower]

obviously

[Sunflower]

i still don't think it's dann

[Sunflower]

i still don't think it's dann

Why’s that?

i think that your take on how he reacted to the dethy reveal is just completely backwards. it's way more likely to be a town reaction than a scum one. respectfully a lot of your reads i think tend to assume that the player in question is incredibly incompetent at playing the scum alignment

i think in general he hasn't played in a way that furthers scum wincon. he hasn't tried to establish himself as a leading voice, but he's been visibly solving and pushing in good places. his posts show to me that he is continually evaluating and taking in new info and not playing for the sake of position

im fairly biased but i think him stepping up to share the read he had been sitting on about morph at the time that he did fits much more with town!dann mindset, and so is the way that his read there continued to develop

i think him trying to talk down me vs klick as tvt is also towny if he's correct, obviously this point won't do anything for you

[Sunflower]

dunn they already explained the crumb

[Sunflower]

it's the classic under the radar/universal townread mixup

[Sunflower]

jupiter here. it's RVS for me right now. get blasted VOTE: Dunnstral

[Sunflower]

where even was the start of the day

[Sunflower]

VOTE: sunflower

Choo choo

why

[Sunflower]

jupiter here. it's RVS for me right now. get blasted VOTE: Dunnstral

What

i missed day 1 so i wanted to lay down a vote lol UNVOTE:

[Sunflower]

The main reason I kind of scumread Sunflower is because the last game I played with Jupiter I caught him as scum and from what he said about me in the scum PT I think he’s kind of scared of me. So him not being here at all makes sense if he doesn’t want to mess things up for fireisred and he is deathly worried I will catch him. When he finally enters thread and I say hi to him and act offended he didn’t say hi to me he says he didn’t even know I was playing – which I don’t really believe tbh. I also don’t think at any point fireisredsir is playing to his potential in terms of how good he is as a solver/townplayer – he feels kind of muted/not here. Maybe both of them just have RL issues or whatever Idk

well i mean i was kind of scared of everything in my first scumgame lol. but i was in fact not here for legit reasons, i had a bunch of APs and was pretty damn busy. i'm here now though
and yeah i didn't know you were playing, fire was the one who wanted to join this game and i was like ok

[Sunflower]

Sunflower really wants to get nuked

???

[Sunflower]

the only person i want dead is Bingle.

And shello

Probably the other scum too when i figure that out. But it isn't sunflower.

why not

[Sunflower]

pulling a classic ydra maneuver called "wagon us if you want but the role claim will come out and we can skip to the claim part if need be"

- ydra

:O you did this in the other game too

[Sunflower]

chat what is a "bookie"

[Sunflower]

jupiter here. it's RVS for me right now. get blasted VOTE: Dunnstral

What

i missed day 1 so i wanted to lay down a vote lol UNVOTE:

Were you not around at all on day 1?

You signed a few posts on day 1

yea but i wasn't paying attention

[Sunflower]

our wolf that we adopted is probably town i think

[Sunflower]

fire was like shell game's out! but u gotta study for your quiz. play shell game later. and i was like ok. and then i never returned to shell game until now LOL. that's mb
anyways im gonna continue reading if there are no further objections towards my completely nonexistent d1 play thx

[Sunflower]

pagetop !!!

[Sunflower]

tldr of morph hood stuff is i reread how the brian wagon developed after the flip and felt like the timing of morph's readflip on spiffeh and pushing him away/denying him thread control felt like a reaction to him casing and pushing brian. i only got to like page 110 or something and hadn't really fully developed the read

and then for some reason almost everyone in the hood was like "hmm yeah that sounds right" which kinda felt weird to me and i didn't really continue reading after that

and then a friendly wolf showed up and we had a great time

[Sunflower]

if you mean a read on morph, i will later if i feel like it's important. rn there's mech stuff so it's kinda whatever

[Sunflower]

which things in particular do you feel are important or relevant

[Sunflower]

experience said based on stuff he'd read and the flip he thought morph was scum without additional explanation

marci says she's conflicted about morph but thinks there's some valid points

std says he sort of agrees on morph but wants to read more closely. then makes a couple more points later about suspicions of morph

[Sunflower]

Morph is likely town because crab lived the night, FWIW.

that feels backwards to me unless this is mechanical related and not dayplay related

[Sunflower]

why would they kill crab who is rather loud and their biggest fan?

[Sunflower]

my reason to townread luke was better

[Sunflower]

also i can't speak for everyone but i ignored you because i knew the point was very quickly going to become irrelevant

[Sunflower]

Sunflower's ISO is just a collection of thoughts that don't lead anywhere. On Day 1 I heard a lot of "scum!fireisred is fully capable of emulating his Town game and posting pro-Town content" and in response I am requesting that someone explain to me why TOWN!fireisred wouldn't be...acting like his Town self here if he's Town?

it's day 1 of a 22 player game that is full of ego players it is literally the most pro-town thing i can do to play more passive/support and not clog the thread even further with drivel. assuming this game doesn't devolve into mech (which unfortunately is looking likely) then being a more active influence on the thread will become more beneficial as the game gets smaller, and i will be more incentivized to do that. if im here

we flipped a scum d1 and i was on the wagon and i didn't waste our time heavily pushing town so i think all things considered i played pretty pro-town

the question you should be asking yourself is whether i played pro-scum. in what ways did i advance scum win condition with my day 1 play? this is not a rhetorical question. i would like an answer

I still think Town in Sunflower's position has no reason to crumb their role whereas the scum in the dethy would have far more incentive to crumb to pseudo-clear themselves when the dethy was eventually revealed.

how can it both be pseudo-clearing and also a reason to suspect me? this is the kind of reasoning that you use that is frustrating to me because you assume that you are the only one able to think more than one step ahead. i know that critiquing your process and being annoyed by your logic is absolutely not going to have any positive effect and will probably just make you feel affirmed in your read but i don't care i want to anyway. and btw i am talking to you like you're wrongtown because after reading post brian flip i came to the conclusion that you are very very likely town

i think it only makes sense to crumb as town, because town is the only one who isn't (presumably) informed of the situation. if im scum who knows it's a dethy, then i know that crumbing just draws attention and is obviously not clearing in any way. if im like a scum traitor who draws an inventor role but doesn't understand it, then i will assume that it is more in my win condition to not reveal things and wait and figure out what's going on. there's no world where scum me has the thought process that crumbling will be useful

town me simply has no idea what's going on and thinks there's no downside to crumbing, and initially i wasn't sure whether the receiver would know upon receiving their shot what reliability it was (the role pm phrasing is ambiguous. i soon realized i could just ask ceph about this and he clarified) and i thought that if anyone received one of those then maybe we could like secretly signal about their result or something. idk i didn't think about it that hard and im bad at mech and, again, there's no downside to it, so it only has the potential to be useful

I remember clocking on my reread that Sunflower was pushing/vocally suspecting all of Klick/ActionDan/marci at earlier on Day 1, which is a bit more of a minor point because it does make sense for Town in the hood to prioritize sorting there. But it follows the general theme of being survivalistic which is the behavior I expect from the scum in the dethy. I'd have to look back at their marci read trajectory because she ends up as a Town read in their final reads list from Day 1. I'm curious if they slotted marci there because of the general sentiment of her towniness that increased as the Day went on.

i mean yeah nothing about this makes more sense as scum than as town i am just trying to solve the game

Most importantly, Sunflower is the most plausible bus vote on the Brian wagon. I'm townreading the majority of players on that wagon to begin with, but Sunflower mentioned Brian a grand total of like four times on Day 1 and it's a bit off to me that Sunflower exits Day 1 with Brian as their only solid scum read (according to their reads list). His vote on Brian also provides a fairly non-committal stance on Cakez that leaves the door open to hop on that wagon later on. They only mention Brian again like six hundred posts later (tbf they are not around too much throughout this period) where they state that they prefer Brian to Cakez. However, this is only after SEVERAL players (myself, Fire Bagel, CSF, etc.) have already advised our preference for a Brian elimination over Cakez.

Please check me if you think I'm conf-biasing, but everything about their read progression on both Brian and Cakez feels calculated. They want the credit for being on scum!Brian's wagon early on so voted there without pushing at all to avoid piling on as much as possible, while leaving the option open to switch to Cakez if that becomes the consensus opinion. Only once Brian's elimination is set in stone and other players are vocally uncertain about the Cakez wagon do they mention preferring Brian over Cakez. Sunflower's progression on both Cakez and Brian illustrates a pattern of following the crowd to try to fit in vs. trying to hit scum with the elimination.

ok

if my vote is the most plausible bus vote

then how exactly is it also calculated to get the most credit

those. are. literally. opposites.

how is this a thought process that holds up to you and actually supposedly tends to get you results given the respect people have for you as a scumhunter

like. i have a brain. voting for brian while saying nothing about him is like the worst possible way to get cred. if i am scum then him flipping red is not going to be a surprise to me. i would be aware that's going to happen and i would be able to set myself up for it

instead i am town and thought brian and cakez were both fine elims until cakez started being townier and brian didn't. there was no reason for me to say a bunch of navelgazing words about my read on brian because plenty of people already made good points about him and my voice is just going to be adding to the noise. so i didn't care to

So yeah Sunflower is exhibiting a lot of behavior that I expect from the scum in the dethy, who really needs to survive to get whatever advantage they would earn for staying alive and to prevent the dethy hood from becoming a masonry, and think they are the best elimination for today.

you seem to think that i am both playing passive and below the level of "pro-town content" that and Good Town Member should be (while acknowledging that i am able to do so as scum if i want to) while also thinking that my goal as scum would be to survive and get whatever advantage i can. these are directly counter to each other.

the scum benefit to playing passive and not gaining much influence or gathering townreads would be to let a strongly positioned partner take the lead on things (or potentially, to let loud TvTs take over the thread) and get overlooked until endgame. this is the opposite of what you're saying my goals would be. if my goal was to just yeet the other townies in the dethy, then i want to be establishing a strong presence, getting townread, and i am unlocked to powerwolf (which is incredibly fun and i would jump at the opportunity) because i am always going to be on a timer and won't live to endgame anyway

if i were scum and you are town and morph are town (don't think we'd ever be scum together here) then you both suspected me in like the first few pages. that would be a huge signal to me that i absolutely would need to take action to build up enough cred that either those reads drop off or that they can't get widespread support. second one is never gonna happen because of who is in this playerlist but the first is pretty straightforward. and you're saying that i didn't do it and somehow that is a reason that i am scum instead of you figuring out that i would be playing against my wincon by doing so

your conception of what my mindset and goals and approach would be as scum is like entirely incoherent

[Sunflower]

were people just terrible at playing the scum alignment in 2015

like whats the deal here

i mean i guess that seems likely given brian. and kemusan

[Sunflower]

i just had higher expectations i guess thats my bad

[Sunflower]

spiffeh
dannflor
hermit
bingle
wolfbae
marci
firebringer
oblivion

fine to kill anyone outside this list rn

weaker townleans on shello and std also

[Sunflower]

wolfbae has me reconsidering my luke and dunn reads

i think it is true that dunn's lawyeriness feels more likely to be scum motivated

i kinda want to still townread luke

[Sunflower]

probably fine to trust the csf townreads i guess

[Sunflower]

sorry for getting annoyed i usually take scumreads as a compliment but this one is an insult

it's whatever though me dying is not the end of the world here

i will say that i think im decent at finding town wolfbae? or at least have gotten to the point of knowing what to look for after failing a couple times. and his approach here feels very town to me both in thread and in hood. if there's anyone out there who cares about my opinion then i would be pretty willing to stake things on that read rn

[Sunflower]

i read him off his first post in the hood im the greatest alt guesser of all timeeeeeeee

[Sunflower]

i read him off his first post in the hood im the greatest alt guesser of all timeeeeeeee

this is so much funnier if you could see what his first post was but i promise it's true

[Sunflower]

i unfortunately think there's a solid chance experience would play this way as town too but actiondan was my first guess for scum in the hood and maybe that was right

[Sunflower]

i think his play has changed recently idk why

[Sunflower]

but it is true that even in current era of whatever is going on with him, as town i guess he has tended to be more in thread and like, trying to be active, and then just being unwilling/unable to share detailed thoughts

where here we don't even get many of the usual "catching up now."s

[Sunflower]

my favorite possible world for this game to be in is for morph to be scum who has all the thread control in the world but they just don't have enough support from their partners and can't do enough to prevent the rest of the thread from landing on them

that would be really satisfying to me

pedit: @spiffeh can't in depth respond rn but will later