Mafia Reunion | Postgame

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Aureal

Causality violations

[Radical Rat]

Thoughts on massclaiming names?

I think it'd be a good idea to lock people into name claims early, prevent shenanigans on that front.

[Radical Rat]

oh right names are a thing

uh

what is the likelihood that it is helpful to scum

Depends entirely on what kind of roles they have. I don't think there's enough information to make that kind of determination right now, but I assume there will be roles on both sides that benefit. Don't really want to get into role stuff yet though.

[Radical Rat]

Thoughts on massclaiming names?

I think it'd be a good idea to lock people into name claims early, prevent shenanigans on that front.

Nah nah.

And out of RVS we go.

We don't know what the names do per se, this is role phishing.

Pre Edit: Titus knows the score

We do know that, per the OP, some roles target flavor names instead of usernames. The wording implies that this is the only use, which does open up the door for issues later on if people were to lie.

[Radical Rat]

Essentially, what I believe massclaiming offers is everyone knowing who they're targeting instead of having to guess if theirs is a role that targets flavor names. Whether this is a net benefit to Town or to Scum depends on the exact roles in play, which we do not know, nor should we be trying to speculate on so early.

However, it is my belief that the chance is worth taking to enforce consistency and accountability.

[Radical Rat]

For what it's worth, I do not believe I am fishing for roles here.

[Radical Rat]

Giving scum more information is kind of a necessity to give Town information, so I don't see your point. It is important to regulate what that information is of course, but my personal opinion is that revealing names is likely to be worth the tradeoff.

The names don't give any real hints about role, and while it is possible that talking about this could cause people to slip that names are relevant to their role, even that doesn't give any insight into what the role actually IS, and since we're in role madness scum already know we're all PRs anyway, so... I'm not really worried about that part of it.

The part that is potentially a concern is giving scum more accuracy in their actions, particularly if Theta's correct about recruitment being tied to names, though honestly even that isn't strictly a negative imo.

Ultimately, I think it's probably worth it, but there is potential for it to go wrong, so if people don't want to take the chance we don't have to.

[Radical Rat]

That isn't quite what I meant.

I'm saying that I believe massclaiming names is likely to benefit Town more than it does Scum. However, depending on the specific roles in play for each side, it could end up helping scum more instead. We do not have any real information about the roles in play until we start seeing claims/flips, but it's obviously way too early to start claiming, so we should not be speculating on specific roles.

That does not mean we can't discuss, in the abstract, potential benefits/detriments of sharing names, as has been happening already, but it will ultimately be taking a chance. I believe it is a chance worth taking, but if everyone else is too afraid of the risks, that's fine. I don't think it's going to make or break the game either way at this point.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: KittyTacky

A vibe that must be checked

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: KittyTacky

A vibe that must be checked

I'm town and I don't like this naked vote.

Hey now, it's only half-naked!

But yeah, I'm afraid I simply do not believe you. I lack anything specific to push on, but you've got the scummy scent about you I can't quite place yet.

[Radical Rat]

One thing is for sure, I definitely have nothing to do with any cult, not me......ever.....for reals....end of story.....period.

Do we know Mafia have multitasking?

I'd assume they do until we have a reason to believe otherwise

[Radical Rat]

But yeah, I'm afraid I simply do not believe you. I lack anything specific to push on, but you've got the scummy scent about you I can't quite place yet.

Have you played with Kitty before?

I have, but I wouldn't say I'm familiar enough for this to be a slam dunk meta read

[Radical Rat]

I assume Individual is SK, just in order to make sure flips are happening

[Radical Rat]

There's so many to choose from

Ugh decisions are hard

Assign a game to each real name in the set up, whoever gets voted out first is the decided game

How would one know the real names?

In theory a flip would show

Ya, but Roden kinda said that in a way that they know the real names

This isn't the first time the list of known names was mentioned. Why didn't you have anything to say about this before?

[Radical Rat]

I can also confirm that conversions were not mentioned in the signup thread at first, though the Enthusiasts being colored in Cult Purple kinda gave it away for me.

[Radical Rat]

There's so many to choose from

Ugh decisions are hard

Assign a game to each real name in the set up, whoever gets voted out first is the decided game

How would one know the real names?

In theory a flip would show

Ya, but Roden kinda said that in a way that they know the real names

This isn't the first time the list of known names was mentioned. Why didn't you have anything to say about this before?

As I just stated I didn't know the names were public knowledge until this point

Right, but someone else already implied knowing and you didn't care is my point. I don't remember who it was, but it was while we were discussing massclaiming names

[Radical Rat]

and have a reasonable certainty of the accuracy of the claims due to having an exact list of them, I don't see a need to rush to do it.

This one

[Radical Rat]

Alright

i am a frog in wolf's clothing

Damn this is a cult-like game. Idk how to go about going forward, people will just get converted who i town read.

I’m an undercover journalist. Scum team give ‘REAL NAMES’ to convert.

I was trying to bait to see who knew about it early.

Given this information...

Theta was the first to bring this up as a possibility, though honestly I believe the train of thought kinda way she got there, and it was a thought I'd had as well, so I don't want to shade her for it.

There WAS however a certain bias of mine that got confirmation though...

[Radical Rat]

Essentially, what I believe massclaiming offers is everyone knowing who they're targeting instead of having to guess if theirs is a role that targets flavor names. Whether this is a net benefit to Town or to Scum depends on the exact roles in play, which we do not know, nor should we be trying to speculate on so early.

However, it is my belief that the chance is worth taking to enforce consistency and accountability.

I have a strong suspicion that the cult can use names to convert. You're nullifying town's advantage by massclaiming so nah.

VOTE: Rat

This reads to me as though Kitty is softing role information. Yet it would be strange if we had multiple roles giving the same information as Town.

So... 50/50 shot between Kitty and Flavor, and I was already suspicious of Kitty

[Radical Rat]

So they can later say "But why would I be against something that benefits me?"

Pushing the mislim through being higher priority than aiming conversions.

Preferring pseudo-randomness for tactical purposes.

[Radical Rat]

Titus, have you been reading the game?

[Radical Rat]

Titus, have you been reading the game?

Not really. I just comment on what stands out.

This game contains a single bastard mechanic, namely the factional

Enthusiasts

ability, which will involve conversions.

This is why we're talking about cults.

[Radical Rat]

Preferring pseudo-randomness for tactical purposes.

Can you elaborate?

If scum don't know who they're targeting, we can't predict who they might target for protection, nor can we really draw conclusions if we do happen to learn of a conversion.

We can also assume scum have already shared their own names amongst each other, so a misfire is incredibly unlikely, and even if they don't get their first choice of conversion, Any conversion is good for them, far moreso than a standard scumkill.

It's the kind of scheme I would propose to my team as scum.

[Radical Rat]

I think Radical Rat might be scum. Haven't seen RR much since massclaim was off the table

I've been around since then, commenting on things as I have relative thoughts.

[Radical Rat]

I think Radical Rat might be scum. Haven't seen RR much since massclaim was off the table

I've been around since then, commenting on things as I have relavant thoughts.

EBWOP

[Radical Rat]

Oh fuck, didn't realize deadline was that close.

I'll do Kitty, Titus, or any of the lurkers.

Absolutely will not do Theta or Flavor Leaf.

[Radical Rat]

Kitty's town fyi.

Kitty obv town.

I like this new level Kitty been playing at recently

Either of you have reasons here?

[Radical Rat]

Also, though Aureal already pointed it out, I do want to state for the record that I shouldn't have indicated any lack of knowledge about names being public, since I did know about that from the start.

[Radical Rat]

Except that if scum believe they would benefit from converting at random they can just... convert at random. Knowing names doesn't prevent dice from being thrown.

The initial question I was answering was why scum would oppose the massclaim suggestion. While knowing names doesn't prevent them from converting randomly, if they're not going to use the names anyway, might as well take the ostensibly pro-Town position publicly.

[Radical Rat]

Well for one I don't know that I'd qualify DV as a lurker slot here, but also I just haven't had the chance to read back through everything and decide if I wanna go along with the vote or not yet.

[Radical Rat]

If your win condition isn't contingent on survival, what is it? If it's Town-compatible, and you can't get recruited, you shouldn't have a problem sharing right?

[Radical Rat]

Well, I personally am fine with you sticking around for now, claim seems believable enough, and identifying the number of conversions means helping us find cult's in your best interest.

[Radical Rat]

Though of course, if deadline picks up again and we can't agree on anyone else... guaranteed Non-Town elimination is the safe option

[Radical Rat]

Each night, if get a good night's sleep, I get 3 real names, 2 of which must be town.

Must be Town as of the end of the night, or the beginning?

[Radical Rat]

Well, I personally am fine with you sticking around for now, claim seems believable enough, and identifying the number of conversions means helping us find cult's in your best interest.

Yeah I think I agree.
Limming Deas on a later day could also help us figure out the speed conversions are happening at the very least?

I don't really see how, unless he tells us what he's going to guess AND we get prompt mod confirmation of whether he met his win condition with it or not. I... don't know that I would assume we get that?

I have never seen a game in which winners WEREN'T announced publicly.

And even if DV doesn't tell us his guess before we eliminate him (which he has no reason NOT to do), he needs to help spot conversions in order to have an accurate count, so that means working with us to find cult.

[Radical Rat]

He claims to be confirmable as the host though, pretty sure that'd mean the individual.

Not necessarily. It only confirms that his flavor is what he says, not alignment.

But I believe him for now.

[Radical Rat]

DeasVail needs to live.

Even if you don't believe his wincon, or his intentions, he's an extra chance for scum to miss.

The ONLY scenario in which we don't want DV alive at night is if he's actually cult fakeclaiming 3P.

And if DV is trueclaiming? Scum want him out because he's unrecruitable and incentivized to work with us. Arguing that scum wouldn't push him makes no sense because of that.

Titus' role doesn't CC at all, and I have no idea why she thinks it does.

This whole always eliminate 3P dogma is bullshit, even if Deas claimed SK I'd want him alive to generate flips and soak up recruits tbh.

If we are given any reason to suspect he's lied about any part of his role, we can eliminate him. Until then, I'd like to keep the odds of scum successfully recruiting as low as possible.

VOTE: NK15

I don't think everyone parroting the always kill 3P thing is scum, but I do think you're by far the scummiest one doing it.

[Radical Rat]

Without any publicly known names, cult has a functionally random chance to hit 1 in 12 people.

With Gamma being ascetic, Flavor being immune to recruitment, and DV being 3P immune to recruitment (which like. 3P basically HAS to be immune to work in this kind of setup), scum has a 25% failure rate tonight if we hit cult, or a 27% failure rate if we hit Town. If we eliminate DV, that failure rate drops to 18%.

I think 25 and 27 are better numbers than 18, plus the chance of hitting ACTUAL scum instead of being paranoid about what DV MIGHT be hiding.

On D3, we can revisit this, as by then things matter a bit less since cult will have probably learned some names and have ruled out others if failed recruits happen. But for today? It's just not a good move.

[Radical Rat]

i do expect scum to be on deas if this goes through though as it simply is too much of an opportunity for them to pass up on i imagine

i personally dont see major scum motivation for taking out DV here this way.

Like they're unrecruitable, sure, but Gamma and I also claimed that, so I feel like I am a bigger threat to scum than DV is right now.

What angle do you think is available to scum to try to push claimed Town immunity?
They have to just claim not to believe you, convince other people not to believe you, and then find a way to backpedal after the flip.

With 3P, it's a much easier sell, and removing them solves a similar problem.

[Radical Rat]

I fully expect DV to be hiding some aspect.

I don't think whatever he's hiding outweighs the benefits of leaving him be temporarily.

[Radical Rat]

thing is, im not really as afraid of a cult hitting their action as a lot of you seem to be?

i feel like that's one of the key things in being able to read cult is finding out who they recruited.

If it were a regular scumkill, I might agree with you.

But finding out who they recruited is... not super helpful when it's random, and also not guaranteed to happen at all. We don't know if flips will show the original alignment or not, so we'd be dependent on finding contradictory investigations to confirm a recruitment, or hope the target's really bad at not suddenly changing attitudes.

The act of recruitment itself gives us no inherent information, and pretty significantly shifts the numbers balance in cult's favor. I would very much like to prevent that from happening as much as possible.

[Radical Rat]

N1 is really all I'm talking about here.

It can definitely be assumed that scum have some kind of name cop thing going on.


(Also in case it wasn't apparent enough already, I have changed my mind about the whole massclaiming thing in light of the multiple claims of immunity on the board)

[Radical Rat]

I agree about Titus, but I am willing to make her commit to results first.

Will jump on board if needed though.

[Radical Rat]

on the one hand i am not sure why cult would cc the 3p

but that was not actually a proper cc from titus now was it

This is scum. Hands down. My role is 100% a cc.

You're going to have to explain how "2/3 names are Town" conflicts with guessing names/conversions. Because it really doesn't seem to.

[Radical Rat]

on the one hand i am not sure why cult would cc the 3p

but that was not actually a proper cc from titus now was it

This is scum. Hands down. My role is 100% a cc.

You're going to have to explain how "2/3 names are Town" conflicts with guessing names/conversions. Because it really doesn't seem to.

Because it tells me 2 out of 3 players haven't been converted...which is the same as what DV promises

No it isn't?

Knowing how many conversions have happened doesn't provide any information about specific players, only the current number of scum we're looking for, and even that isn't guaranteed since if DV guesses wrong it's not like we get a correction.

Knowing 2/3 players are Town doesn't provide any information on cult's numbers, except that there are at least two Town alive, which... if that ever weren't the case, cult would win anyway, so we don't need your role for that.

[Radical Rat]

If I think he is hiding aspects of his role, I dont understand why you are trusting him so much to work with us?

I believe his wincon, but also think he might be hiding abilities to make himself appear weaker.
Wincon heavily incentivizes working with the Town, regardless of what he may or may not be able to do.
And even if he doesn't actively help us, he can still tank a conversion shot.

[Radical Rat]

I will be here before deadline to vote for Titus if necessary

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Titus

Tomorrow I would like to not be cutting things this close

[Radical Rat]

I'd switch back to NK15 if we could get enough people to commit to it before deadline, but uh... that doesn't look super likely at this point

[Radical Rat]

Alright i might claim

I have some info

Alright

i am a frog in wolf's clothing

Damn this is a cult-like game. Idk how to go about going forward, people will just get converted who i town read.

I’m an undercover journalist. Scum team give ‘REAL NAMES’ to convert.

I was trying to bait to see who knew about it early.

[Radical Rat]

By my count, that's six people who are willing to go NK15.

Are there two more people online?

[Radical Rat]

Titus also has six, so we need two more either way

[Radical Rat]

I also prefer NK15

[Radical Rat]

Still prefer DV, will compromise on NK, not much interest in Titus

This brings the total potential votes to 7 (assuming Cakez is still around).

One more and we can make it happen

VOTE: NK15

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: NK15
This works for me since iirc he’s a lurker as scum, not as much as town

Interesting, the meta read would maybe have been more helpful a little earlier

Don't miss out!

[Radical Rat]

I think we should wait until later to start speculating on kills that may or may not exist

[Radical Rat]

I'd interpreted the friendship group as a pseudo-masonry, where everyone starts Town but could still be converted.

I may just be reading too much into that though

[Radical Rat]

Flavor (The text, not the Leaf) seemed to imply that to me, but I'd also assumed there would be a statement to that effect in the hood, so if the participants aren't aware of that it probably isn't actually the case.

[Radical Rat]

I'd interpreted the friendship group as a pseudo-masonry, where everyone starts Town but could still be converted.

I may just be reading too much into that though

burn this fishing/bs w extreme prejudice; also DV plz full-claim again for me/specify in new words what your deal w true names is...?

VOTE: RR

Always with the fishing accusations. Tell me, what would I gain from this knowledge as scum? I either already know everyone in there is Town, or I already know who isn't. There'd be no need to fish for such information.

[Radical Rat]

Okay people need to start unvoting. I'm in quickhammer range, and there's more we need to settle today.

For one, Titus needs to claim her results.

[Radical Rat]

I am not claiming real name publicly, ever.

I would also prefer not to claim my role just yet... but it is partially confirmable.

[Radical Rat]

Here is my re-claim for those (maybe only Maestro) that requested it:

- I am the individual
- I cannot have my alignment changed
- I appear as town to investigative roles
- I learn the number of people that visit me each night

Actions:
Once, during the day, I can reveal myself as the host and be immune to eliminations that target me the following day
Each night I can visit someone and learn their real name, and they get notification that they were visited.

Win condition:
Either I:

- guess the real names of anyone who visited me the previous night or;
- immediately upon my elimination, guess how many conversions have occurred

Do you have access to a list of all the names in the game?

We all do, I thought that was covered yesterday pretty extensively

[Radical Rat]

I'm actually opposed to Friendship members claiming.

The only reason I didn't say as much was because ActionDan already claimed, so it seemed a moot point.

My comments about the pseudo-masonry was to inform reads to an extent, but only in the event a claim were to happen organically.

[Radical Rat]

And even then it's not like. A 100% thing, so I don't know why anyone would be rushing out the gates to claim for my personal townread, when it's not even a full inno, and people want my head anyway.

[Radical Rat]

My personal preference is that other members only claim in the event that verification is necessary.

[Radical Rat]

If we believe Flavor then this isn't true, if the Addict is a Traitor in the normal sense

That's fair I suppose, but I still don't think scum would really care about that? It's a cult game, everyone's a traitor essentially.

[Radical Rat]

sheep me

Tempting, but I'm afraid I think you're Town.

[Radical Rat]

namely the factional Enthusiasts
ability

The usage of "the" instead of "a" implies there are not multiple factional abilities.

Multiple PTs is kind of a given at this point though

[Radical Rat]

maybe they have a guilty on RR.

They don't.

[Radical Rat]

I'm so confused. You guys talk too much. How can anyone have thought that the friendship group might be some sort of masons especially after Drew claimed to be in it. Surely he wouldn't have been okay with yeeting NK if he knew he was town.

...did this post not go through earlier ugh

At the time of my initial speculation I had not noticed Drew claimed. My follow up about it not being the case if the people in the hood didn't know about it was an indirect response to me noticing that.

[Radical Rat]

That my role PM says that there are actions shared by multiple people. Implying more than one.

still rly need to just close the tab so I don't see these notifications, but friend, you realize "factional" only = Scum/Cult in this game, correct...?

PE: unless that, I guess... can one of Drew/Dan share if they know about a Friendship "factional" ability? wouldn't such an ability necessarily be in NF15's role PM, or else it couldn't be considered "factional" & wouldn't be considered part of this assumption Thomith is making...? I would have strong words w/ any mod that considered it ok to give what they then called a "factional" ability to a group that is not a faction in the game, just a hood/whatever so I think this is all a huge jump

There is precedent. I was in a masonry with a factional Traitor Cop in Weird Dreams 2.

[Radical Rat]

I have also been described as "too much" when both Town & Scum

I haven't played a game in years; I am an enigma to you & that's ok lol

PE: wtf is a factional traitor cop uuuuugh

I’m reading it as the masonry had a group cop action that only found mafia traitors

Actually we had a Mason Traitor as well. It was a strange game.

Point being though that Town sub-factions has been a thing in games before.

[Radical Rat]

You know.....how?

Well, if you do, then say so, and I'll go into detail about how I know you're lying then.

[Radical Rat]

Im rereading Radical's ISO, and it does kinda look like they could be informed of the Real Name things.

I can see them cozying up to me a bit too on the reread, so I think I kinda see what Maestro's getting at.

They're playing right behind me.

Nothin' personnel, kid

[Radical Rat]

I wish I were, because then I'd be winning. But alas, I am but a Townie, adrift in a sea of cult game shenanigans.

[Radical Rat]

If it's any consolation, I have no idea who that fellow with the mask is

[Radical Rat]

I didn't even know you were an alt until this game.

[Radical Rat]

I didn't see any reason to list them out by name.

[Radical Rat]

I am not claiming real name publicly, ever.

I would also prefer not to claim my role just yet... but it is partially confirmable.

Wtf? You wanted us to claim real names but aren't going to claim yours ever?

I WOULD have at the start when I suggested. I did note that my opinion had changed later on in the day as more information came out.

[Radical Rat]

I am not claiming real name publicly, ever.

I would also prefer not to claim my role just yet... but it is partially confirmable.

Wtf? You wanted us to claim real names but aren't going to claim yours ever?

I WOULD have at the start when I suggested. I did note that my opinion had changed later on in the day as more information came out.

What specific info changed your mind?

The confirmation that scum recruit by real names, and the multiple claims of recruitment immunity. This necessitates scum not knowing who they're targeting to maximize the chances of a failed recruitment.

If you ISO me, you should see where I made a note of that.

[Radical Rat]

eh

it is probably not as bad as i am thinking

deas is going to leave tonight anyways most likely so names that have a low probability of being the unrecruitable third party is probably not that useful compared to how useful it might be for us later

I still don't see how it's useful at all given that their alignment can be changed. Assuming scum recruit using real names, those ones in particular are maybe looking more juicy as targets.

It's helpful if we wagon one of them and they claim. While not an ironclad defense, a 2/3 chance does tip the scales in the absence of other confounding evidence.

[Radical Rat]

eh

it is probably not as bad as i am thinking

deas is going to leave tonight anyways most likely so names that have a low probability of being the unrecruitable third party is probably not that useful compared to how useful it might be for us later

I still don't see how it's useful at all given that their alignment can be changed. Assuming scum recruit using real names, those ones in particular are maybe looking more juicy as targets.

It's helpful if we wagon one of them and they claim. While not an ironclad defense, a 2/3 chance does tip the scales in the absence of other confounding evidence.

Actually it's greater than 2/3 since the third name could also just be Town. Too lazy to do the actual math there, but it's good odds.

[Radical Rat]

N1 is really all I'm talking about here.

It can definitely be assumed that scum have some kind of name cop thing going on.


(Also in case it wasn't apparent enough already, I have changed my mind about the whole massclaiming thing in light of the multiple claims of immunity on the board)

Here you are

[Radical Rat]

I may have made a slight error in that I actually wanted this to happen later, but I suppose there's no use beating around the bush now.

I have a PT with DeasVail. He'll be winning today, and further discourse around him is a distraction. This is what I meant when I said I was partially confirmable.

[Radical Rat]

I may have made a slight error in that I actually wanted this to happen later, but I suppose there's no use beating around the bush now.

I have a PT with DeasVail. He'll be winning today, and further discourse around him is a distraction. This is what I meant when I said I was partially confirmable.

Under which wincon?

I visited him last night (that's where the PT came from), and was his only visitor. I've given him my name in exchange for him continuing to play pro-Town for the remainder of the day, but he said he was afraid of the day ending early while he was asleep and that he'd be submitting soon.

Which... yeah, guess I can't really blame him there, no sense just sitting on the win like that.

[Radical Rat]

It doesn't feel like ending the game would make sense with these wincons, but if that happens you're all free to yell at me in the post-game I guess

[Radical Rat]

what happens if we power fade RR before he can do so?

You'd all go down in history as big meanies?

[Radical Rat]

Well, he was the optimal night target for me for reasons, and then my reasoning for letting him win was to make sure we got to him before cult does, and we were probably gonna be stuck policying him tomorrow anyway, so might as well free up the elimination there.

[Radical Rat]

Don't worry, I don't intend to

[Radical Rat]

The spicy part of this is that Titus actually has Deas' name in her results, but we aren't 100% sure it's as helpful as that sounds because Deas apparently appears as Town to investigatives, which... MIGHT not apply to Titus because of it being passive mod information rather than an explicit cop, but that's something that should be determinable after the flip

[Radical Rat]

I mean all Titus' information gives is 2 town names, we have no idea if the third one is town or scum, it's random.
If DV appears as town to investigatives, then we don't really learn anything.

Yeah, but if this is an exception to DV's immunity, we have two hard innos.

It's something Titus will need to ask once the flip happens.

[Radical Rat]

I did not. In my experience, that's the kind of question that doesn't get answered, but honestly I just didn't think to ask.

[Radical Rat]

I mean all Titus' information gives is 2 town names, we have no idea if the third one is town or scum, it's random.
If DV appears as town to investigatives, then we don't really learn anything.

Yeah, but if this is an exception to DV's immunity, we have two hard innos.

It's something Titus will need to ask once the flip happens.

DV's immunity?

They said they appear as Town to cops.
I thought you might have been an exception, given the passive nature of your results, but based on your new wording of "not enemy to Town" it sure sounds like DV would appear as inno, making this whole thing a lot less helpful. Still should get explicit confirmation post-flip though.

[Radical Rat]

He*

[Radical Rat]

like, I'm not sure how this role doesn't literally force a player into conflict w/ Mafia rules if Roden is telling the truth & Cult as I understand it is in this game, & we can't know either of those things but whatever - maybe I should stop talkin

Well, people, both scum and town, don’t know Roden’s Real Name, so if they target their Real Name, and Roden activates it, they won’t know they’re targeting Roden.

Then if Roden self activates and it shows someone targeted them, then it counters the idea that they couldn’t have been converted. I actually think it gives information in a pretty cool way.

Scum could accidentally convert Roden, and then Roden has to claim it and not be cleared.

It’s only if nobody targets Roden that Roden is cleared from being converted.

Finlay could have converted them Night 1, but like I said, I don’t see the purpose of Roden using that role if that happened, so I think Finlay didn’t use a converting action.

Uh, the purpose seems to obviously be to claim to be confirmed town so I don't understand how you can think he wouldn't use it if he was already converted.

Because if it is later found that Roden is NOT Town, by any means, it also incriminates Finley as his only visitor.

[Radical Rat]

Although that actually doesn't work if Roden started as Cult. It only clears him from being converted specifically.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Theta

Join me RR?

Perhaps.
I'm still thinking on things.

[Radical Rat]

The spicy part of this is that Titus actually has Deas' name in her results, but we aren't 100% sure it's as helpful as that sounds because Deas apparently appears as Town to investigatives, which... MIGHT not apply to Titus because of it being passive mod information rather than an explicit cop, but that's something that should be determinable after the flip

Uh and we know he appears as town... how? You cannot just drop info like that and expect people to take it at face value.

Because he said so. He could theoretically have lied, yes, but that'll get sorted out with the flip

[Radical Rat]

Oh he already flipped, good. That'll teach me to respond before I finish reading

[Radical Rat]

I'm not eliming in the claimed hood members today

Why not?

[Radical Rat]

PE: boohoo, I know 3 ppl's names & I feel like others know some too - if anybody who knows names gets converted Scum/Cult starts snowballing, that much is clear

Is this including the flips?

[Radical Rat]

Why would I have done that when I already asked you about it? It'd be a bit silly of me to make sure my partners were all asking the same questions would it not?

[Radical Rat]

My pm is after conversion but leaves room for false positives, such as DV's claim.

To compile everything about your results:

You receive three names
Two of those names are Town
One of those names can be any alignment
You can be fooled if a role investigates differently
This information is otherwise accurate as of day start

Is all of that correct, or am I missing anything?

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Theta Alpine

I'm sorry Miss Alpine. Your pocket was comfortable, but I have to follow my heart here.

[Radical Rat]

don’t trust Cakez bc he’s done nothing worth trusting, from my PoV, but tbh I’ll admit I fked up if DV flipped in the names & I didn’t notice

PE: don’t talk to me about NF, you all limmed him & not me!!!

What does DV flipping in the names change?

Without the ability to know whether DV took a "Town" spot in Titus's results, the strength of the result remains the same

[Radical Rat]

Rat's being voted among other reasons, because 220 223 and 226 taken together are egregiously scummy.

What's wrong with 226?

I'll acknowledge that particular push on Kitty was confirmation bias fuelled by an erroneous interpretation of his words, but I stand by everything I said in 226.

[Radical Rat]

Clearly you haven't played with me as scum before.

[Radical Rat]

don’t trust Cakez bc he’s done nothing worth trusting, from my PoV, but tbh I’ll admit I fked up if DV flipped in the names & I didn’t notice

PE: don’t talk to me about NF, you all limmed him & not me!!!

What does DV flipping in the names change?

Without the ability to know whether DV took a "Town" spot in Titus's results, the strength of the result remains the same

No. We know at least one of the names is town. Making it a 50% chance at minimum the name is town, which is less than average. My ability gets more powerful the longer I'm alive. If Emerson comes up in my list again or someone else with mod confirmation to me is good, I might stick my own real name in their place.

You can receive dead players' names?

[Radical Rat]

I think understanding what the exact nature of an investigation is is kind of important for interpreting results, but go off I guess

[Radical Rat]

...
And I got questioned if people would quickhammer at E-2.

Well, I was Town and also immune to recruitment.

Soft counterclaim to Gamma's ascetic actually, but I didn't want to out that yet, but someone should definitely verify that ascetic claim.

[Radical Rat]

I also think giving DV the win is just anti town overall.

You're probably right, but it seemed like a good idea at the time.

[Radical Rat]

But yeah, basically I'm a Neighborizing Nexus.

I pick someone to get a hood with every night, and all actions targeting me are redirected to my most recent target, thus making me functionally ascetic.

I picked DV as my D1 target because being immune to recruitment meant if I were targeted it would deny the conversion, and if any interference roles targeted me I wouldn't accidentally cause trouble with a Town PR.

Helping him win was meant to help confirm my role, and ensure he played to help Town until the time came. I did give him my name too early on though, and that's my bad.

[Radical Rat]

Theta looks shady to me because all the big talk end of D1 looked like nervous scum, and then offering to help DV win by wasting her action, but it is POSSIBLE she has a role that just benefits from targeting 3P like I did.

Titus I'm still unsure on, but she looks better today.

Maestro I don't know what to think.

Flavor is probably Town, in spite of the quickhammer.

Gamma I kinda sorta counterclaim, as mentioned, needs to be checked.

Roden seemed like a plausible conversion, but the public visitor claim is very bold if that's ever verified. Keep an eye out though.

Bianco is also sketchy to me, don't like that she's just been lurking and taking potshots.

Aaaaaaand that's all I've got. Good luck everyone else

[Radical Rat]

Oh also Aureal obvtown for now.

[Radical Rat]

Oh also my recommendation is that Thomith use the dance party tonight.

While it's potentially higher value in MeLo, there's no guarantee you'll still be Town by then, so turning off a conversion is worth it imo.

[Radical Rat]

Though... I guess now that we're in Twilight and it needs to be declared during the Day it's too late for that. Fuck.

Well, use it when you can I guess.

[Radical Rat]

Okay, I THINK that's everything I have to say for real now.

If there are questions, get 'em in quick

[Radical Rat]

Setup was incredibly scumsided imo, but even so I think it was an earned victory.

Flavor is a damn good bullshitter, and though I was already onto Theta, I probably wouldn't have ever caught Flavor had I survived. My guy basically claimed NK immune miller and we all just believed him.

Main cult being cut off from recruits is an interesting concept and a good idea to somewhat limit a cult's snowballyness, but it just wasn't enough given the power distribution here.

I think having any kind of actual investigation utility would have gone a long way for balance. Our two main "investigative" roles were red herrings doing more harm than good, and with no reliable way of determining if recruitment happened at all, let alone who did it, it felt impossible for Town to gain any kind of solid direction. I mean, we didn't even know our own win condition.

I will reiterate though that scum played a strong game, earned their win. In spite of the balance issues, things still definitely could have turned out differently with weaker players in the slots.

GG everyone, and thanks for modding RH