Mafia Reunion | Postgame

[Aureal]

[Aureal]

I'm feeling kinda antisocial right now so I'm just gonna pre-emptively sheep Drew with a VOTE: biancospino 'cause I know that's what he's doing

[Aureal]

I'm so glad I was astute enough to pick a game where Drew was going to be reasonable to sheep him in

VOTE: Radical Rat

[Aureal]

Also I think NK15 is town

Why? 55 seems like nitpicking at nothing to me.

[Aureal]

But given how Drew didn't seem to follow you in 49, and in fact didn't seem to be cognizant of his own question, to me it's safe to say that the question was likely just rethorical.

Yeah, exactly. I think it's pretty safe to assume any question like "why would you want to help scum?!?" is rhetorical

Btw, I'm against mass nameclaiming. Not only needing to dox someone in order to act looks thematically a pretty villanous thing to do, but also there is very little room to fakeclaim a name in the first place since there are exactly 15 of them so there isn't much need to lock claims in advance

I don't know about that first point, but the second is solid. Having the real names tied to the player is going to benefit anyone who has a role which uses someone else's real name. I don't immediately have strong feelings about whether scum roles are likely to get more benefit than town ones. But since we can decide to claim real names at any point, and have a reasonable certainty of the accuracy of the claims due to having an exact list of them, I don't see a need to rush to do it.

[Aureal]

That does not mean we can't discuss, in the abstract, potential benefits/detriments of sharing names, as has been happening already, but it will ultimately be taking a chance. I believe it is a chance worth taking, but if everyone else is too afraid of the risks, that's fine. I don't think it's going to make or break the game either way at this point.

What, you wanna like, brainstorm various possibilities? Even that is kinda role-fishy. Implications about someone's role can be drawn from their suggestions.

[Aureal]

That does not mean we can't discuss, in the abstract, potential benefits/detriments of sharing names, as has been happening already, but it will ultimately be taking a chance. I believe it is a chance worth taking, but if everyone else is too afraid of the risks, that's fine. I don't think it's going to make or break the game either way at this point.

What, you wanna like, brainstorm various possibilities? Even that is kinda role-fishy. Implications about someone's role can be drawn from their suggestions.

UNVOTE:

Thinking about it, still is role phishy, but willing to believe scum wouldn't be so brazen here.

Aureal, you must sheep me here.....per the rules.

UNVOTE:

Yup yup, that's definitely the rules and not me mind-controlling Drew to do my bidding

Nothing to see here, move along

[Aureal]

I decided I was townreading Rat before you came back XD

[Aureal]

The vote in particular? Not much of anything, but I do think she's a more likely scumflip.

[Aureal]

VOTE: DeasVail

[Aureal]

One thing is for sure, I definitely have nothing to do with any cult, not me......ever.....for reals....end of story.....period.

Do we know Mafia have multitasking?

I don't even know if Mafia is an appropriate term for the "informed minority" faction in this game, let alone whether they can multitask. XD

It's certainly not a Normal game so it doesn't need to be announced. Probably not even any way of knowing during the game, really, unless we start seeing flips that specify they can multitask. But I'd be kind of surprised to see that.

[Aureal]

But yeah, I'm afraid I simply do not believe you. I lack anything specific to push on, but you've got the scummy scent about you I can't quite place yet.

Have you played with Kitty before?

[Aureal]

But yeah, I'm afraid I simply do not believe you. I lack anything specific to push on, but you've got the scummy scent about you I can't quite place yet.

Have you played with Kitty before?

Are you actually trying to sheep my play style as well?

This feels so fucking werid

One thing is for sure, I definitely have nothing to do with any role that gets power by following people's actions, not me... ever... for reals... end of story... period.

[Aureal]

But yeah, I'm afraid I simply do not believe you. I lack anything specific to push on, but you've got the scummy scent about you I can't quite place yet.

Have you played with Kitty before?

I have, but I wouldn't say I'm familiar enough for this to be a slam dunk meta read

OK, just wondering. So you probably know that Kitty typically comes across in a way that people tend to scumread. I'm not actually familiar with his scumgame but I wouldn't expect it to be wildly different.

[Aureal]

You think I can't VOTE: Aureal?

[Aureal]

Damn this is a cult-like game. Idk how to go about going forward, people will just get converted who i town read.

Where'd you get this?

get what, it's basic strat

Is this why everyone is being so damn quiet? Too afraid to even talk about townreads?

Guess what! Talking about townreads in a regular game gets them shot! What's even so different?!

[Aureal]

Ha ha, I got Flavor Leaf to do the talking-to-himself-for-half-a-page thing; my ability to mentally command people to do things is growing!

The role switch mechanic is what’s different.

Role switch? As in the 'real name' thing?

[Aureal]

Talking about town reads only gets you shot if you’re likely to be correct and there’s more variables for it.

I said talking about them gets

them

shot.

Thinking about the differences between this compared to a regular game is a pretty valid point of discussion, i feel

Well I think the balance here has swung too far to the 'thinking' rather than 'talking' side. And when

I'm

saying something like that, that clearly means it's an issue!

[Aureal]

Bianco’s the scummiest slot so far

Lately I can't read them well, why scummy?

I've been feeling wary of bianco too. Like, her timing on joining the wagon on Rat with us was kinda weird and felt forced. I'm seeing more agreeably going along with a wagon than I'm comfortable with there.

And then I just remembered that last game I finally realized that I am

completely

incapable of reading bianco so the best thing for me to do is to form a read on her and then totally turn it around.

Aureal’s weird too, but idk if it’s scum

Personally, I feel like weird Aureal is town Aureal lol.

But I also feel like she is someone who exposes herself as town eventually if she is in fact town(much like Alianna, but in different ways)

Some year I am finally gonna get a proper red PM and I just may take this as a challenge to be even more weird

[Aureal]

Newsflash: Aureal plays differently in different games

I'm not even sure what the 'talking fast lot of words' thing is; if I'm coming across as talkative here I think that's just an indication of how slow the game has been otherwise

[Aureal]

Talking fast lot of words thing actually sounds like a Flavor Leaf thing

Maybe I should try to roleplay Flavor Leaf

If I can do a goose I can do this, right?

[Aureal]

Also I'm pretty sure we're all hiding something, it's role madness after all

[Aureal]

Aureal feels similar in tone to the Dark Jester game, so I'm leaning town there atm. I don't really know what her scum game is like though.

Join the club, none of us knows

[Aureal]

I always get kind of weirded out when people try to meta read me when I don't even have anything to compare my town games to. All you'd getting is info on the extent of my town range

Roden probably doesn't even know that though, so I guess it's not particularly suspicious or anything, we've only briefly been in any games together before (and he was scum in those)

[Aureal]

And I still don't understand how Drew comes to the conclusions he does, seeing as he shouldn't have been able to get a sense of Alianna's scum game forever either. But he was saying the same thing in the jester game and he was town there so I believe that he thinks he does.

[Aureal]

Theta seems the same as all the other games I've seen her in, so I feel pretty good about her too

Yeah I haven't seen a scum game from her or anything, shush

DV is kinda rubbing me the wrong way with the 'nitpicky' townreading stuff but I'm not like super sold on it being scummy. Though calling Drew and I town could be a pocket attempt.

[Aureal]

HEY

How dare you break up my page spamming

[Aureal]

Kitty is just there sort of attracting light scumreads for no particular reason which is consistent with what I've seen from him in previous games, it's not enough for me to townread him or anything but given time maybe he'll do a towny thing I can find, I've had some luck with that in the past

Oh yeah, bianco taking up the point about that just sorta being how Kitty acts normally after I'd already made the point was one of the things I was giving her the side-eye on.

[Aureal]

I still don't much care for NK being nitpicky at Celebloki, at first I thought it was scummy but talking with DV about it made me loosen my thinking on that a bit. I guess once in a while there can be something found in that sort of thing (if furtiveglance was in this game I expect he'd definitely have something to say about that) but it's not typically something I can get behind. Which I guess is kinda weird because I definitely had a nitpicky phase a while ago. But I guess it was nitpicking arguments and not exact phrasing, so eh maybe not.

I'm totally having to resort to the playerlist just to even remember the other half of who's in this game, you guys. Please do something

[Aureal]

I'm around but nothing has really grabbed my attention enough to comment tbh

NOT EVEN MY INCREDIBLE FLAVOR LEAF ROLEPLAY?!

Fine, I'll just go play video games then

[Aureal]

There's so many to choose from

Ugh decisions are hard

[Aureal]

To roleplay as Flavor Leaf you at least have to have the paranoia that you could be scum and be worried about that.

I think if you were scum you would just out yourself from the excitement

Well, it does seem like it'd be hard to tell, that Aureal is a tricksy one

Possibly

According to her, anyway

[Aureal]

But would be a long time til Aureal can get some game time.

If Aureal ends up being scum this game, calling a Games Tell the Au Reál tell

Darnit, I will make sure to avoid the Spam Thoughts Like Flavor Leaf Then Go Play Video Games tell next time!

Partly because Vampire Survivors runs that only get me one achievement make me sad

[Aureal]

Are you trying to fake a dumb tell right now?

All the names are in the setup post, even i saw that

I did not see that, nor did I know I could have chosen what my name could be lol

You got to choose?!?

I guess I'm not surprised I got my first choice, I kinda expected a lot of this.

[Aureal]

Huh, I guess going back and looking at the signup post was possibly useful, that addendum about fakeclaims being provided on request wasn't there last I looked. So if it ever comes to a situation where that's relevant, now we know that they do have access to fakeclaims.

[Aureal]

I'm confused

Drew you already knew the real names were public knowledge

Why throw shade towards me?

What makes you think he knew?

And what shade?

[Aureal]

i was second
and somehow missed the fact that this was a cult game until it actually started up
so i can relate to missing information

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that info wasn't in the signups at first. I was sitting in the spec thread of RH's last game watching Black skunk the whole town again when RH started talking about the signups for this being open, so I took a look and advised him that it really didn't say much of anything about what to expect from the game. I think it just said the minority had a non-standard factional action, didn't specify anything more about it.

[Aureal]

We might just need to start yeeting some lurking slots

[Aureal]

To have more for them to hopefully comment on?

[Aureal]

Definitely mixed it wrong, throw it away and get a Mountain Dew

[Aureal]

I was thinking for a while that Kawaii was lurking because they're nervous about playing scum now after getting caught out quickly in the last game, but just not ever posting at all kinda weakens that theory, more likely just flaked again and it's nai.

[Aureal]

Definitely mixed it wrong, throw it away and get a Mountain Dew

i mean i could just drink some of it and then add more lemonade to balance it a bit more

Yeah but then you'd still be drinking lemonade and and rum instead of Mountain Dew

Why would anyone subject themself to that

[Aureal]

She has definitely been a bit flaky and distracted as of late. I don't think it's ai.

[Aureal]

The flaky and distracted bit, in case that wasn't clear. Her claim to not know about a recruitment mechanic is possibly ai since the minority Enthusist team

should

know, but even then I wouldn't be surprised if she did have that in her PM and didn't even realize it.

[Aureal]

The flaky and distracted bit, in case that wasn't clear. Her claim to not know about a recruitment mechanic is possibly ai since the minority Enthusist team

should

know, but even then I wouldn't be surprised if she did have that in her PM and didn't even realize it.

Come on now. We all had to confirm with a summary of our role PMs. If she can recruit I don't buy she could've missed it

Oh yeah, we did describe the role to confirm in this one.

...you remembered

that

part awfully easily.

Dreeeeeeew are we voting bianco again yet?

[Aureal]

The flaky and distracted bit, in case that wasn't clear. Her claim to not know about a recruitment mechanic is possibly ai since the minority Enthusist team

should

know, but even then I wouldn't be surprised if she did have that in her PM and didn't even realize it.

Come on now. We all had to confirm with a summary of our role PMs. If she can recruit I don't buy she could've missed it

Oh yeah, we did describe the role to confirm in this one.

...you remembered

that

part awfully easily.

Dreeeeeeew are we voting bianco again yet?

this actually jogged my memory a bit to go back and check and

in rautherdirs scum role pm for the conception game it said that confirmation could be done via posting in the scum pt as well
if we assume narration used the same format for this game then group scum at least may not have fully read their role
though i mean
they would at least know they were scum and probably who partners are

and i have to imagine stuff like them being a cult being a heavy topic of discussion so i am not sure this is alignment indicative or not

Would posting

anything

in the scum PT be considered confirmation though, in a game where describing your role is part of the requested confirmation task (for some of us at least)? If town is asked to confirm by describing it, would scum not also be asked? I don't get scum PMs so I have no useful experience here to draw upon.

But also, I can easily imagine there being absolutely no discussion in the scum PT. Feels like this game might actually just be full of lurkscum. Imagine a Kawaii (0 posts)/DX (1 post)/Titus team, there's no way

that

PT isn't empty.

[Aureal]

radical rat for not realizing the real names were public knowledge

Uh, I don't think this happened? Rat was pushing back on Drew not realizing there was a list of names. I don't see anything that makes me think Rat didn't know there was a list, they just thought it might be worth locking people in on them early.

[Aureal]

@Mod:

Seeing as we have a(t least one) player in need of replacement can we please have a deadline freeze/extension?

[Aureal]

And here I was thinking I might need to start following around Flavor Leaf or something instead.

VOTE: DeasVail

[Aureal]

@Mod: Is Kawaii no longer being replaced? There has been zero posts from the slot the entire game.

[Aureal]

We might just need to start yeeting some lurking slots

Who are these slots you want to yeet?

Where did I say anything about

wanting

?

To this point my reads are categorized more like: slots I don't want to yeet, slots that exist, and slots that don't even exist. And bianco.

[Aureal]

Awww, you guys make me wanna fakeclaim unrecruitable now

[Aureal]

I don't think we're arguing semantics

I think you tried to throw out shade to follow up with a fake scum read later so that you can push someone at the end of your catchup

I don't buy that you think reading comprehension is TMI and I don't buy that you were interested if I explained my reasoning later, because if you were you could just read my ISO and look at the surrounding posts for context.

I don't really like this pushback on Thomith. First thought was that Roden might be trying to push a counter wagon to get pressure off DV but from DV's claim it seems they're not partnered.

I'm confused about that role, need to look closer when I've got a few minutes.

[Aureal]

- immediately upon my elimination I correctly identify the number of people who have been converted (which I thought I could achieve by just being eliminated day 1 and guessing zero, but I misinterpreted and it’s only after the first night that that counts)

So, if you're eliminated day one you guess after the night phase rather than immediately?

And I don't see much reason not to use that confirmation of being the host. What do others think?

What happens when you meet your win condition? Do you leave the game?

[Aureal]

Well, I personally am fine with you sticking around for now, claim seems believable enough, and identifying the number of conversions means helping us find cult's in your best interest.

Yeah I think I agree.
Limming Deas on a later day could also help us figure out the speed conversions are happening at the very least?

I don't really see how, unless he tells us what he's going to guess AND we get prompt mod confirmation of whether he met his win condition with it or not. I... don't know that I would assume we get that?

[Aureal]

Well, I personally am fine with you sticking around for now, claim seems believable enough, and identifying the number of conversions means helping us find cult's in your best interest.

Yeah I think I agree.
Limming Deas on a later day could also help us figure out the speed conversions are happening at the very least?

If the theory about scum using real names for conversions is correct, then having my real name out there as a decoy is also probably not a bad thing

A decoy? I don't understand this at all.

[Aureal]

I have two potential methods of winning. Either:
- I identify the real names of anyone who targeted me the previous night, or;
- immediately upon my elimination I correctly identify the number of people who have been converted (which I thought I could achieve by just being eliminated day 1 and guessing zero, but I misinterpreted and it’s only after the first night that that counts)

I also can be publicly confirmed as the host of the reunion if need be but that makes me immune to eliminations the following day, so I didn’t really want to do that unless asked.

I have a night action where I can visit someone and learn their real name. They will get notification of being visited but not that it was me specifically.

It’s weird and I’ve been out of sorts working out what to even do with myself this game.

this is very compatible with town actually so i do not think you should ever be eliminated
honestly up to you what you do though

if other town allowed it then someone with a low power action could hand you a win later on by just telling you their real name and then targeting you that night

or at your request we could elim you and you can try to guess number of conversions instead

Yeah I also had this thought about how easily someone could just decide to let DV win and was like "Wtf balance?!?"

[Aureal]

or
of course

there is enough unrecruitables that cult cannot guarantee a recruit every day/night cycle
or uh
or their factional ability is non-consecutive but i do not know if i have ever seen that before in a game

Yeah, at least three people have claimed to be unrecruitable, so that could well be it. DV's whole role seems based around the idea that conversions seem reasonably likely to fail.

[Aureal]

And looks like Aureal is having a similar confusion

Oh, it looks like he means the decoy is letting him live, not flipping him. We're reading it the opposite of his intent, I think.

[Aureal]

He claims to be confirmable as the host though, pretty sure that'd mean the individual.

[Aureal]

Dreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew

Theta. Is. Right.

This is no time to be friggin paranoid about a pretty freaking confirmable slot that benefits us while it's here. Actually winning and leaving is likely the biggest harm it can inflict! And you guys want to self-inflict that when we need to use our votes on the enthusiast faction?!?

[Aureal]

Dreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew

Theta. Is. Right.

This is no time to be friggin paranoid about a pretty freaking confirmable slot that benefits us while it's here. Actually winning and leaving is likely the biggest harm it can inflict! And you guys want to self-inflict that when we need to use our votes on the enthusiast faction?!?

I demand a formal apology on my desk first thing after DV screws us over

Explain how that can happen plz, not general handwaving paranoia

[Aureal]

Pre Edit: Aureal, so you buy DV's claim as fact?

Yes Drew, I think there's a good likelihood of it being true. If true its existence is very useful to town. If false... what, exactly are you afraid of happening? Is allowing him to live to day three going to harm town somehow? Is knowing one person is going to target him one night going to cause town to lose? I'm serious when I ask for these examples. Think about the balance. Just screaming "we're gonna get screwed somehow!" is not useful at all.

[Aureal]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Join me, my dear invited guests!

Flavor Leaf wishes to have all of you scurry along with him like rats to the pied piper, but not if I have anything to say about it!

It is true, I am not part of the town, and

do I know whether Flavor Leaf is town or scum? No! I do not. But do I care? Only a little if I'm being totally honest.

The point is that such a spectacular coup would be fun!

If there is a more boring and sensible option then I will join in on that, but until then…

See what i mean.

they are inherently not here for town, and only claimed because they wanted they were looking to be faded, and didnt want to use their other ability yet. Then when it looked like it wasn't gonna work, they used the ability.

they're an unreliable narrator.

Honestly you're kinda asking for this sort of reaction with the way you're carrying on.

Not saying I'm going along with it, but I can feel the annoyance in it. I've been in the position of having a really ridiculous role that makes people paranoid before- it sucks and I now have a perma-blacklist on DkKoba because of it.

[Aureal]

I have two potential methods of winning. Either:
- I identify the real names of anyone who targeted me the previous night, or;
- immediately upon my elimination I correctly identify the number of people who have been converted (which I thought I could achieve by just being eliminated day 1 and guessing zero, but I misinterpreted and it’s only after the first night that that counts)

I also can be publicly confirmed as the host of the reunion if need be but that makes me immune to eliminations the following day, so I didn’t really want to do that unless asked.

I have a night action where I can visit someone and learn their real name. They will get notification of being visited but not that it was me specifically.

It’s weird and I’ve been out of sorts working out what to even do with myself this game.

insert flavour later

DeasVail is confimed to be the

Reunion Host

. All eliminations that target him the following day will fail.

also, looking at this.

i dont think these are the same thing?

it looks like it's specifically 'eliminations that target him', like a night action vigilante/scum kill would be immune, but then again, it does say following day, not phase.

regardless, i dont think this applies to getting voted out, which is what I feel it was trying to be pushed as.

I think DV has already shown they are playing in bad faith and not with a town agenda, so for everyone saying they can town side, how would you ever trust them?

I feel confident that elimination means the standard use of elimination- by vote, not

any

method of being removed from the game like nightkills. It means we can't vote him out day two. Not that he can't be killed at night.

[Aureal]

i do expect scum to be on deas if this goes through though as it simply is too much of an opportunity for them to pass up on i imagine

i personally dont see major scum motivation for taking out DV here this way.

Like they're unrecruitable, sure, but Gamma and I also claimed that, so I feel like I am a bigger threat to scum than DV is right now.

I... suppose you

would

feel that way.

I don't think the scum team necessarily shares your sentiment. Didn't you start the game out complaining about how you had no idea how to find scum in a cult game?

[Aureal]

fuck it, let's just kill me

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I hate cult games.

Theta is scum. I standby DV would always be the best fade Day 1. Have fun.

No to all of this

Including that you hate cult games

[Aureal]

I feel confident that elimination means the standard use of elimination- by vote, not

any

method of being removed from the game like nightkills. It means we can't vote him out day two. Not that he can't be killed at night.

Voting and eliminating that way is not targeting. That is worded incorrectly if that is the correct.

I don't think the use of the word 'targeting' here means anything in particular, but elimination certainly does. I mean, how the heck else do you phrase that? I guess the use of the word "all"

could

suggest there's things other than the vote that are included but since it also specifies day then... what could it possibly be? I doubt there's dayvigs available here.

[Aureal]

on the one hand i am not sure why cult would cc the 3p

but that was not actually a proper cc from titus now was it

I don't know why Titus does anything she does and trying to figure it out just distresses me.

[Aureal]

Like, I know it might be asking too much for this stuff from Titus to make sense, but...

Titus, have you been reading the game?

Not really. I just comment on what stands out.

This game contains a single bastard mechanic, namely the factional

Enthusiasts

ability, which will involve conversions.

This is why we're talking about cults.

Oh

So Titus knows by post 240 that cult recruits.

VOTE: titus

Don't like this not just because it's on me. We have a confessed person who doesn't have our wincon. I don't get why you'd unvote DV here.

It sounds like we can potentially work with DV to get information that does help our wincon though?

DV is claiming a third party that likely doesn't exist. There is one third party according to the setup. Unless scum can convert, he's the one doing it with a fake claim.

And... doesn't know again in post 396?

Also I don't know how her role as claimed in 405 suggests no cult like she said in 241. 404 actually sorta seems to contradict the idea, even! And doesn't really agree with 405, because giving info about names and their town status doesn't mean anything in terms of who can be converted. (Those such as Gamma and FL, assuming they're town, would check the "town" box but not the "could be converted" box).

See I feel like the natural thing would be to look at the game information? I don’t know

I used my role pm, which suggests no cult and missed that spot in the setup.

Strike that the third party doesn't convert.

I CC DV as I doubt both our roles exist as I give info on who could be converted.

Each night, if get a good night's sleep, I get 3 real names, 2 of which must be town.

[Aureal]

That's not even the role Titus claimed, she claimed it gives her the names of 2 town and 1 question mark. Which is just giving a pool of three and saying there's at least two town in it. Could be three town. It's really only useful if one of the pool immediately gets flipped as non-town which would confirm the other two were town, at that point.

[Aureal]

Liar. It's impossible to get out of act one.

[Aureal]

I'm gonna need to adopt a new bestie since my mind control rays have encountered a technical hiccup in trying to reach Drew at the moment.

VOTE: Titus

[Aureal]

Why is voting Titus a bad idea?

[Aureal]

Why is voting Titus a bad idea?

I meant the bad idea of trusting DV

So you don't object to Titus specifically?

[Aureal]

DeasVail needs to live.

Even if you don't believe his wincon, or his intentions, he's an extra chance for scum to miss.

The ONLY scenario in which we don't want DV alive at night is if he's actually cult fakeclaiming 3P.

And if DV is trueclaiming? Scum want him out because he's unrecruitable and incentivized to work with us. Arguing that scum wouldn't push him makes no sense because of that.

Titus' role doesn't CC at all, and I have no idea why she thinks it does.

This whole always eliminate 3P dogma is bullshit, even if Deas claimed SK I'd want him alive to generate flips and soak up recruits tbh.

If we are given any reason to suspect he's lied about any part of his role, we can eliminate him. Until then, I'd like to keep the odds of scum successfully recruiting as low as possible.

VOTE: NK15

I don't think everyone parroting the always kill 3P thing is scum, but I do think you're by far the scummiest one doing it.

Radical rats posting on the last few pages is pretty town and I like their arguments so I'm gonna sheep

VOTE: nk15

Why are you moving your vote off the lead wagon? For some insane reason it's like 3 hours to deadline with a slot that's never made a post still not replaced.

I promise you guys, any game

I

mod will never have a deadline ticking off the final days with a replacement pending.

[Aureal]

our choices are a third party claim
titus with an admittedly weak scum read but still the best the majority of people seem to share
or a complete lurker like nk15 or such

you will not get my support for the first one
i am good with either of the other two options

^ditto to all this

I believe we're still just at 5 on Titus with a majority of 8 needed

[Aureal]

VOTE: NK15
This works for me since iirc he’s a lurker as scum, not as much as town

Interesting, the meta read would maybe have been more helpful a little earlier

[Aureal]

Replacing KittyTacky

Game cursed

Filled with sudden urge to just boot the non-existent slot

[Aureal]

VOTE: Not Known 15

[Aureal]

deas why did you visit me

guh

i am only gonna be able to use my power like twice maybe as it is

I'm not getting why you want so much to make DV win. Letting him be around may be fine, but there's really no reason we should be actively helping him unless tangentially to our own wincon.

Letting him be around forever is actually the best course for a town who is confident he's not got something in his role that's going to screw them over. We are clearly not that town, so the next best course is to give him a minor assist to meet his wincon rather than wasting a day's vote on him when we should be trying to use it on those who can't win with us.

[Aureal]

I'm so confused. You guys talk too much. How can anyone have thought that the friendship group might be some sort of masons especially after Drew claimed to be in it. Surely he wouldn't have been okay with yeeting NK if he knew he was town.

[Aureal]

I'm so confused. You guys talk too much. How can anyone have thought that the friendship group might be some sort of masons especially after Drew claimed to be in it. Surely he wouldn't have been okay with yeeting NK if he knew he was town.

...did this post not go through earlier ugh

[Aureal]

Okay, I'm home from my long day at work and managed to presumably read everything, and all I understand now is why Drew likes to use the devil in his hydra names.

[Aureal]

eh

it is probably not as bad as i am thinking

deas is going to leave tonight anyways most likely so names that have a low probability of being the unrecruitable third party is probably not that useful compared to how useful it might be for us later

I still don't see how it's useful at all given that their alignment can be changed. Assuming scum recruit using real names, those ones in particular are maybe looking more juicy as targets.

[Aureal]

I am not claiming real name publicly, ever.

I would also prefer not to claim my role just yet... but it is partially confirmable.

Wtf? You wanted us to claim real names but aren't going to claim yours ever?

Do I have to point out again why Titus is town?

I don't recall you ever doing something of the sort?

[Aureal]

I am not claiming real name publicly, ever.

I would also prefer not to claim my role just yet... but it is partially confirmable.

Wtf? You wanted us to claim real names but aren't going to claim yours ever?

Do I have to point out again why Titus is town?

I don't recall you ever doing something of the sort?

Calling Titus town?

I definitely have done that before lol, many times

I don't really remember you doing even that in this game, let alone explaining

why.

[Aureal]

VOTE: Theta

Town doesn't benefit from letting 3p win and removing an unrecruitable name from the pool

You guys have got to be fugging kidding me.

"waaaaah we don't want the 3P around let's kill it"
"waaaaah how dare you try to get rid of the 3P it benefits town for it to be around"

[Aureal]

Roden's prior position on the 3P is not very clear, he doesn't seem to have been favor of immediately voting him out but also expressed dubiousness of it.

Is there a con to voting DV Day 3 instead of today?

I think Leaf makes a good point

Tbh we have zero reason to believe DV is a benign 3P or that he's being 100% honest about his wincon

It's kinda fence-sitty and this attack on Theta is ridiculous even if he has since then come to have a much stronger PoV on the matter. If you don't want the 3P gone, then GO TALK TO THE PEOPLE WHO WANT IT GONE FFS

Roden might have been converted last night, this is just bad all around

[Aureal]

I could vote Theta, her talk currently seems to be solely mech-based.

Is being solely mech based scummy?

Yes, both on a general level and I think fir her specifically. I remember her talking a lot about setup-related stuff in BTXVIi

The hell are you saying

Theta is always on the same page as me on mech, and thus she's been my top townread every time I've played with her

It's not scummy, it's super towny

[Aureal]

like, I'm not sure how this role doesn't literally force a player into conflict w/ Mafia rules if Roden is telling the truth & Cult as I understand it is in this game, & we can't know either of those things but whatever - maybe I should stop talkin

Well, people, both scum and town, don’t know Roden’s Real Name, so if they target their Real Name, and Roden activates it, they won’t know they’re targeting Roden.

Then if Roden self activates and it shows someone targeted them, then it counters the idea that they couldn’t have been converted. I actually think it gives information in a pretty cool way.

Scum could accidentally convert Roden, and then Roden has to claim it and not be cleared.

It’s only if nobody targets Roden that Roden is cleared from being converted.

Finlay could have converted them Night 1, but like I said, I don’t see the purpose of Roden using that role if that happened, so I think Finlay didn’t use a converting action.

Uh, the purpose seems to obviously be to claim to be confirmed town so I don't understand how you can think he wouldn't use it if he was already converted.

[Aureal]

dumb again, how is this solved by Roden claiming reakname...?

roden has put himself in a situation where if converted he kinda has to immediately reveal that he got converted
if cult know his real name and can thus choose if they recruit him specifically or not
are they going to recruit him or not

Uh how's that? Revealing that someone visited doesn't say anything about whether he's converted. Vist could be from anyone, even cult with a nonconversion action to frame him. We'd have to flip him to know if he's converted, and since people are bizarrely calling him conftown now that doesn't seem likely?

[Aureal]

Right so in the words of David wasserman "I've heard enough"

Or specifically not heard enough. I am pretty sold on Aureal being scum in addition to rat.

There has yet to be a word about 5 votes popping up on them when rat became a townread page 3 and as far as I can tell I see no reason Aureal wouldn't have maintained that until now. So to me I sense an awkward reluctance to comment on RR or any wagoner. The pivot to Roden has obviously fallen flat now.

Her D1 was not stellar either. The aforementioned town read on RR was not deserved. The page 8 posting for postings sake was unnatural. The causal suggestion of wanting to yeet lurkers when her scum candidates of DV and Bianco existing is a cognitive disconnect. Not fighting harder for the Titus fade end of Day 1 to me was apathetic. Obviously circumstances eod were not ideal but you can rally.

Scum candidates?? Where did you even get that idea? I'm quite sure I stated at some point that I didn't really have any, just slots that I

didn't

want to yeet, which makes perfect sense with a desire to yeet lurking slots. If the people who are posting seem towny, where would YOU look for scum?

As for Rat, wtf am I supposed to say? I don't understand the sudden wagon there at all, I said as much already. Maybe I missed some context because trying to slog through pages of stuff from work in snippets of often just a matter of seconds like I'm doing now isn't great for having a bead on things; but after nearly 12 hours at work last night I sure didn't feel the urgent need to go reread in a more cohert fashion.

[Aureal]

It doesn't feel like ending the game would make sense with these wincons, but if that happens you're all free to yell at me in the post-game I guess

Yeah this

That would be nonsense setup design and in that case I'd just be glad to wash my hands of all this

[Aureal]

i just dont think letting DV win is townie this game because that's an extra slot in the game gone meaning its easier for cult to win.

SAYS THE PERSON WHO KEEPS WANTING TO VOTE IT OUT OMG

[Aureal]

The spicy part of this is that Titus actually has Deas' name in her results, but we aren't 100% sure it's as helpful as that sounds because Deas apparently appears as Town to investigatives, which... MIGHT not apply to Titus because of it being passive mod information rather than an explicit cop, but that's something that should be determinable after the flip

Uh and we know he appears as town... how? You cannot just drop info like that and expect people to take it at face value.

[Aureal]

i just dont think letting DV win is townie this game because that's an extra slot in the game gone meaning its easier for cult to win.

SAYS THE PERSON WHO KEEPS WANTING TO VOTE IT OUT OMG

That was only yesterday at deadline specifically?

Today was just testing.

I agree 100% that in place of NK15 DV was the better option

wtf it was just as true yesterday

[Aureal]

like, I'm not sure how this role doesn't literally force a player into conflict w/ Mafia rules if Roden is telling the truth & Cult as I understand it is in this game, & we can't know either of those things but whatever - maybe I should stop talkin

Well, people, both scum and town, don’t know Roden’s Real Name, so if they target their Real Name, and Roden activates it, they won’t know they’re targeting Roden.

Then if Roden self activates and it shows someone targeted them, then it counters the idea that they couldn’t have been converted. I actually think it gives information in a pretty cool way.

Scum could accidentally convert Roden, and then Roden has to claim it and not be cleared.

It’s only if nobody targets Roden that Roden is cleared from being converted.

Finlay could have converted them Night 1, but like I said, I don’t see the purpose of Roden using that role if that happened, so I think Finlay didn’t use a converting action.

Uh, the purpose seems to obviously be to claim to be confirmed town so I don't understand how you can think he wouldn't use it if he was already converted.

Because if it is later found that Roden is NOT Town, by any means, it also incriminates Finley as his only visitor.

Yeah I addressed that. How are we gonna find him to be not town if everyone just shrugs and calls him conftown? I suppose with the info about Deas being in the Titus results there's a chance he could be another of them and be confirmed, if Titus is trustworthy. Which is yet another hurdle to clear.

[Aureal]

dumb again, how is this solved by Roden claiming reakname...?

roden has put himself in a situation where if converted he kinda has to immediately reveal that he got converted
if cult know his real name and can thus choose if they recruit him specifically or not
are they going to recruit him or not

Uh how's that? Revealing that someone visited doesn't say anything about whether he's converted. Vist could be from anyone, even cult with a nonconversion action to frame him. We'd have to flip him to know if he's converted, and since people are bizarrely calling him conftown now that doesn't seem likely?

If people visit Roden now it kinda feels like they're scumclaiming imo.

...

I hate this thought. Roden isn't bloody well conftown unless by sheer chance of being in Titus results and Titus being proven trustworthy. Now you want to chase investigations away?

[Aureal]

@1144

You have had tangible suspicions throughout the game. And, if you really want to pursue being unable to convert any into votes, then you're a slot that ought to not continue living anyway. I am able to read between lines in your posting history, I hope others are able to do the same

"Indecisive town should go boom"

VOTE: ActionDan

[Aureal]

Aureal, Dan is Town; stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

Oh well if you say so

Then I'm just playing to his standard of "you don't play the way I want so you should go boom"

[Aureal]

maybe not
depends on how all of our actions are

p-edit

ah
well there we go
unfortunate

Eh, I'm glad for the confirmation especially of his unrecruitable status. One such role existing lends support to the existence of the others. And believe me, I have had a few doubts, about this all being a big show.

[Aureal]

I mean, no, I don't need to even taste-test; I'm not eliming in the claimed hood members today & I trust Dan FAR more than Aureal after the last couple of pages lmao

Why to both these

Why trust Dan

Why not flip in the hood

[Aureal]

Scum are probably gonna do everything they can to convert Dan if they have any play in that realm

Is he like normally a good player or something? I'm sure not impressed here so far. He's what, pushed Rat? Which I don't get or agree with, and now me which is obviously wrong. Don't recall him doing much the other time I saw him, in dividing connor.

[Aureal]

1152 is Aureal obviously setting up possibility that future result by Roden = investigative, not Cult btw (when we have 0 proof of investigative in-game, unless I'm super-wrong), so idk why everybody's going "oh yah oh so good points wowza"

Just because you guys aren't good at mech doesn't mean I'm gonna go along with the wrongheadedness

NK was a frigging investigative yanno

[Aureal]

So is anyone even gonna freaking explain why they're voting Rat? Wow bianco and Cakez are voting there and they've been like non-existent this day

What even is this game

[Aureal]

Maybe you really do hate cult games, clearly you're just trying to make it stop at this point

[Aureal]

It's not your bad, it's Leaf's for being a damn psycho threatening to turbofade you for no reason. I'd have done the same thing.

[Aureal]

VOTE: biancospino

[Aureal]

Is it 50% that it’s 2 town 1 scum or 3 town? I’m okay with the idea of Cakez scum more than going straight for that possibility with Titus role

I feel like the simplest way to handle that role would be to just roll the third slot from the rest of the playerlist, so the odds would be whatever the proportion of remaining players is. But I'm not the mod, he could be flipping a coin to decide if it's town or scum first. Or maybe it's always one alignment. Or anything else one could imagine. I'd lean towards it being just being a random roll but nothing is guaranteed.

[Aureal]

frankly, i do not trust Maestro here, but I feel like i wouldnt trust them even if they become conf town somehow.

I think Maestro is likely town, or at the least was yesterday.

[Aureal]

I'm pondering the odds of there being more than one original scum in the Friendship Group

My PoE feels too narrow if there's just one

At any rate I feel like bianco is basically confirmed scum at this point

[Aureal]

so either Dan's lying, got Role Stopped, or the coffee 50/50'd my result success.

I think I'm leaning towards the last one, and that the Coffee was a scum ability, and targeted me because I claimed Journalist which seems investigative. In theory, they could have thought it would make my actions unreliable.

Pff, and I though you would have been grateful of the gift.
Anyway, no, the coffee was a genuine item, grants an extra personal action no string attached

So you're claiming that you gave that to him during the day yesterday? Did anyone receive coffee on day one?

[Aureal]

*unhappy staring at PoE intensifies*

[Aureal]

I'm pondering the odds of there being more than one original scum in the Friendship Group

My PoE feels too narrow if there's just one

At any rate I feel like bianco is basically confirmed scum at this point

What’s the point of claiming that if scum?

Potentially to get a townread

But yeah, more likely genuine, hence the unhappiness about my PoE getting torn up

I'll have to review the nullish slots more

VOTE: ActionDan

[Aureal]

Aureal why don't you give a list of names that fit into your unique categories

Unique categories???

[Aureal]

Drew reads pretty town in game and in the pt

I probably want to eliminate Aureal or Bianco today. Maybe Roden or Theta??

FL is probably town but I really feel like that quickhammer was a gambit play he'd make as scum so I'm not writing him off

Why did you come in voting someone you think is probably town and don't want to flip?

[Aureal]

The issue isn't that your claimed power doesn't match your claimed flavor

The issue is that you do way too much for a single role and are able to snowball in strength for free since you can't be stopped by scum

I’m not gonna lie…i lied…about that part.

I am recruitable. I just said that so scum wouldn’t use like a Name Cop on me.

LOL, I

thought

your claim was kinda fishy at the time

[Aureal]

I think Leaf, Theta, Drew, Maestro are town by play

bianco is scummy by play but townpoints for role use make up that deficit so above null

I don't even wanna think about Titus, I don't get why people townread her. Best argument for her being town is nearly getting flipped d1 but that's barely worth anything. I agree her d2 was better but that was a low bar, still don't see anything towny.

Dan and Cakez are my top picks for scum. Dan is just aggressively leading charges against townies, and Cakez following.

Roden I saw something in his talk about his role that made me think town on day one, I should go reevaluate if that held up with new info

Thomith... yeah I dunno, if the role gives us a way of confirming its use then town. Haven't really been pinged by his play either way.

Cele/Gamma didn't really ping me either, but another nonrecruitable role makes sense in the setup given the 3p win condition. Not sure why Rat thinks it wouldn't work with their role, but I'm not sure how redirecting to an Ascetic would work- would they be unable to be targeted with the redirect?

[Aureal]

I have a new mission

Find an anime girl avatar for Drew

[Aureal]

Here ya go



AtE away

[Aureal]

If Thomith is on the level and still town then he can use the dance party to make sure it's not elo after a townflip today.

Also since it doesn't seem to have been made clear yet, from Leaf's info about addict/traitors I would assume they don't have communication with the main scum team and don't need to be removed in order for town to win, we just need to get the original scum. So yes, absolutely we should be focusing on getting them.

[Aureal]

I don't think so? Bad plan, for reasons I just stated

[Aureal]

Then we probably need to mass claim today instead of tomorrow then because there's likely another factional ability we're gonna shut off thats unclaimed.

Dance party should always be right after the mass claim.

I think that's why it's fine to go for Convert or Group Scum today because it still lets us continue in the scenario Scum has had 2 successful conversions.

We could ask people to claim whether they'd be affected by the party?

[Aureal]

Confirming FG has full claimed to each other. There's a rather obvious role theme to us.

Is it... friendship?

[Aureal]

I do have some questions about your passive info gathering part of your role. Can you spell out the pieces of info you started with and gained each night. I want to make sure it aligns with what my role implies about conversion flavor

I started with info, and then get it every night.

- convert with Real Names.

- started with a Traitor (flavored as an Addict)

- converts become Addicts.

Oh interesting so converts don't know the scumteam and scum don't know who they hit if we keep real names hidden. Converts could vote to lim scum.

Huh

I hadn't even considered that converts wouldn't be informed of who their recruiters are, though I did realize they shouldn't be aware of who, if any, other converts are. I guess it's possible it could work that way although I wouldn't assume as much. If it does, then flipping a convert tells us basically nothing in terms of associations.

Wow, even the scumteam might not know how close we are to game over. If they targeted either of our flips they know they didn't get someone that night.

This lack of info might actually make more sense from a balance perspective, as it's notably harder than expected to avoid voting your own team when you know at most who only some of them are.

[Aureal]

VOTE: Cakez

Reasons
1) Cakez feels scummy
2) His claim to be on the list was out of nowhere
3) If wrong, we confirm a real name that isn't group scum.
4) There seems to be a lot of resistance to Cakez without defending the play.

I believe it was Maestro who claimed Cakez's name.

No idea what you're getting at with 3.

What do you mean by resistance? You said you haven't read day three yet.

[Aureal]

One name max *could be scum.

I didn’t think it was 50/50.

I think Aureal and I talked about this earlier, but it was never touched upon

Or 3p I assume, in the case of DV.

VOTE: Aureal

Why the naked vote?

[Aureal]

Like, it's really freaking weird to vote someone just because their name was randomly mentioned.

That is a weird defense of Aureal

And this is an even weirder comment, there's no defense being made here. You vote me at random then accuse Leaf of defending me by mentioning my name? What is up with you, Drew? Did you get converted?

[Aureal]

One name max *could be scum.

I didn’t think it was 50/50.

I think Aureal and I talked about this earlier, but it was never touched upon

Or 3p I assume, in the case of DV.

VOTE: Aureal

Why the naked vote?

Why do you assume it is naked?

Assume? It is. There is zero reason given for it. That's a naked vote.

[Aureal]

Like, it's really freaking weird to vote someone just because their name was randomly mentioned.

That is a weird defense of Aureal

And this is an even weirder comment, there's no defense being made here. You vote me at random then accuse Leaf of defending me by mentioning my name? What is up with you, Drew? Did you get converted?

After I voted you he said DV said you were townie....seems weird that he would involve the flipped 3p to tell me you are townie.....don't you think?

Look, I know Leaf's misgendering use of 'they' makes things harder to understand, but I'm pretty sure he meant "he" there, as in DV said that HE comes across as town to investigatives. Nothing to do with me. Why do you think Leaf would even remember what DV's read on me was, let alone care? I'm not sure

I

even remember what DV's read on me was.

One name max *could be scum.

I didn’t think it was 50/50.

I think Aureal and I talked about this earlier, but it was never touched upon

Or 3p I assume, in the case of DV.

VOTE: Aureal

Why the naked vote?

Why do you assume it is naked?

Assume? It is. There is zero reason given for it. That's a naked vote.

Sometimes it's the things you don't say

I don't think you even understand the conversation. Go try again.

[Aureal]

Like, it's really freaking weird to vote someone just because their name was randomly mentioned.

That is a weird defense of Aureal

And this is an even weirder comment, there's no defense being made here. You vote me at random then accuse Leaf of defending me by mentioning my name? What is up with you, Drew? Did you get converted?

Aureal, if you're town, join me on Cakez.

Probably where I'll end up, I'm seeing this day going the direction of us being competing wagons.

[Aureal]

Well I'd rather it be competing wagons on scummy slots but at least having a wagon on A scummy slot is better than everyone going after my townreads like we were doing for a while there, I guess.

I'm still trying to work out where the the third scum would be if my sense that Dan/Cakez are two of them is correct. You

almost

make sense, but you and Cakez are doing a good job distancing if so.

[Aureal]

Why is Theta a townread for you again.

Theta seems the same as all the other games I've seen her in, so I feel pretty good about her too

Yeah I haven't seen a scum game from her or anything, shush

DV is kinda rubbing me the wrong way with the 'nitpicky' townreading stuff but I'm not like super sold on it being scummy. Though calling Drew and I town could be a pocket attempt.

I could vote Theta, her talk currently seems to be solely mech-based.

Is being solely mech based scummy?

Yes, both on a general level and I think fir her specifically. I remember her talking a lot about setup-related stuff in BTXVIi

The hell are you saying

Theta is always on the same page as me on mech, and thus she's been my top townread every time I've played with her

It's not scummy, it's super towny

[Aureal]

I don't think it's great that you guys are apparently having a lot of private conversation that's significantly affecting your reads on each other. You probably weren't paying much attention to the rest of the love child game after you weren't playing anymore, but the quote in my sig comes about because of private conversation making people go hivemind (and be wrong where I was right).

[Aureal]

You guys are absolutely exhausting. It's hard to judge how accurate Drew's suspicion is without being able to see context but my confidence in him still being town is renewed from it.

I'm not at all thrilled that it took Drew making an accusation to get Dan to participate in discussion out here again.

[Aureal]

I am of the mindset that this is too bold of a play for Aureal to be scum.

Dan has group scum possibility for me too, really the only reason I see is that people are naturally following around him, and i think in this type of game, you kind of have to have that, especially with the given info. That’s how the nature of this game you find associations.

That being said, it’s hard to put that as anything but paranoia for me because that is something that can easily happen with a Town Dan, and they haven’t done anything really inherently scummy.

This is more of an Aureal defense than a Dan push, though.

I find it scummy that Aureal is pushing Dan because I don't see any valid logic behind that push, like you said he hasn't done anything inherently scummy

Oh yeah, what the heck does this mean? What is "inherently scummy" behavior?

[Aureal]

is it possible Dan converted Maestro N1?

I've been thinking Maestro is town because of his D2 post-hammer talk. If he knew Rat was about to flip town it doesn't seem too easy for him as scum to promptly think to start wagging his finger about my conversation with Rat being distancing. It's a rather towny way of thinking. If Maestro was recruited N1 that would still apply, assuming he knew who the main Enthusiast team was.

...I think I'm going to just operate on the theory that recruits are told who the main scum team is because getting a "you've been converted and now win with the Enthusiasts but you don't know who any of them are" PM just seems too mean.

[Aureal]

is it possible Dan converted Maestro N1?

Couldnt have happened, it would crush Drew's raison d'etre for me to be scum that you've seemingly latched unto

You know, I believe we (I?) touched on this before but since recruits are traitors I don't think it's a good assumption to even think you would know whether your conversion attempt succeeded or not. I guess the recruit could try to signal to you but that'd just be guesswork. And you probably wouldn't have a way to know it was Maestro whom you'd targeted with a conversion, unless you had a day real-name cop action or something. Which I doubt you'd choose to use on Maestro.

[Aureal]

Oh, huh, that "started" never quite registered with me before. That would mean only two of the 3 original group have comms and they don't know who the third is. So that's yet another way that a recruitment could fail.

The pendulum of balance is swinging back to the side of "too many failure chances" for all this stuff to be true.

Traitor identity is presumably unknown to the main group so hitting them is a wasted shot
Gamma/Hu claimed Ascetic
Drew claimed rolestopper or something of the sort
Dan claimed some other sort of recruitment stopping
Rat was able to redirect actions on them and thus potentially avert recruitment depending on whether the target was recruitable

[Aureal]

And that means we only have to take out two people, not three. This might not be as bad as it seemed.

Hmmm

You don't suppose claiming Ascetic is a traitor signal, do you? "Don't target me, it won't work"

[Aureal]

They wouldn't know Gamma's real name to avoid targeting her, but it probably doesn't hurt anything and helps if they do find it out, or can narrow it down. And the Friends know each others' names so scum being in there would have a significantly shorter list to work with...

[Aureal]

What?

Roden had a publicly announced self-watcher shot, or at least he claimed that's what it was. Heck, could've been watching someone else, or even just an ability to make an announcement written like it was a result for all I know.

[Aureal]

What if Finley targets by real name? Or just doesn't want their name linked to them?

[Aureal]

He announced his name?

[Aureal]

Oh, guess I missed that because it was in the post-hammer craziness

[Aureal]

Massive confusion here on why that was done

[Aureal]

lol nice

That helps my solving A LOT because I was basically just not considering that slot

[Aureal]

Dan/Cakez or Dan/Titus with Hu as the starting traitor then maybe

[Aureal]

Sigh

What are you guys thinking with the Hu votes?

[Aureal]

I am of the mindset that this is too bold of a play for Aureal to be scum.

Dan has group scum possibility for me too, really the only reason I see is that people are naturally following around him, and i think in this type of game, you kind of have to have that, especially with the given info. That’s how the nature of this game you find associations.

That being said, it’s hard to put that as anything but paranoia for me because that is something that can easily happen with a Town Dan, and they haven’t done anything really inherently scummy.

This is more of an Aureal defense than a Dan push, though.

I find it scummy that Aureal is pushing Dan because I don't see any valid logic behind that push, like you said he hasn't done anything inherently scummy

Oh yeah, what the heck does this mean? What is "inherently scummy" behavior?

like what has Dan done that looks like scummy behavior by itself, without mental gymnastics about positioning his team or whatever

How does positioning the scumteam better being scummy come out to "mental gymnastics"? You dodged my question there and I don't appreciate it.

[Aureal]

Sigh

What are you guys thinking with the Hu votes?

Why are Hu Tao votes off to you? I feel they’re semi warranted right now

Because I think she's almost certainly the traitor and thus we don't need to flip her to win. I'd rather catch the two we need to catch. I'll be rather grumpy if we're on a winning path here but delay it on an irrelevant flip and I get hit with a conversion with that extra time they get.

[Aureal]

Sigh

What are you guys thinking with the Hu votes?

Why are Hu Tao votes off to you? I feel they’re semi warranted right now

Because I think she's almost certainly the traitor and thus we don't need to flip her to win. I'd rather catch the two we need to catch. I'll be rather grumpy if we're on a winning path here but delay it on an irrelevant flip and I get hit with a conversion with that extra time they get.

Man this is an incredibly scummy post. I get aureal clearly wants to railroad me into the ground, which fine, but to ignore facets of reality to do so is comical.

Worried about a conversion when we have a dance party (that better be used tonight)

Worried about them in particular being a conversion target in this gamestate when a good number of people think they could well be scum.

Sounds like you're the one who wants to ignore facets of reality here.

1) Describing anything that I have done this game as "railroading" is pretty laughable. This hasn't even been what I would consider a strong push by my standards, and making big pushes isn't really something I do that much of. There has certainly been railroading this game, by you of Rat, so don't tell me you don't know what it looks like. Weren't you originally complaining that I hadn't said enough about my reads? I've barely said any more about you, how can I be both not saying a lot and railroading you?

2) How the hell does the alleged dance party mean I am not entitled to be concerned about recruitment? Did I miss the part where we confirmed this ability actually exists and Thomith is actually going to activate it rather than perhaps having been recruited? Oh and is its effect permanent because we'd have to hit both scum back to back here for there to be no further chance of being recruited??

3) Are you implying that scum wouldn't want to recruit me because I'm getting scumreads? That's ridiculous for not just one but two reasons. First, I haven't claimed my name so they don't know who the hell they're getting, right? Are you disputing Leaf's info about using real names to convert NOW? Second, why the hell would they care if they got me in particular? Even if I failed to adjust my attitude and got voted out next, a traitor flip is still just town staying in a holding pattern, not progressing towards a win.

[Aureal]

Well, they both can still be converted at some point, but considering I was already town leaning Gamma and Roden, I think that lines up.

I feel like Aureal is being pushed because they’re hitting scum and they’re being threat killed.

Honestly that's probably like half of what my Dan scumread is here. I didn't like the way he took a shot at me, pushed back at him, and got a big disproportionate reaction from not just him. I really don't like the way he seemed to be trying to dial the push on me back a bit a couple days ago and now is just right back at it harder than ever now trying to 1v1 me over... apparently my being concerned about the possibility of getting recruited?? It's reasoning totally drawn from thin air.

Idk, Maestro feels like scum here so much. And it really feels like there’s an army following behind Dan here and i don’t think Dan’s necessarily done that much to warrant that, especially after Radical Rat flipped town.

I can also see in Dan’s posting that they’re being very careful where they push, and i think that tracks if they don’t know the scum team.

I can’t imagine that being fun to play.

You mentioned catching Maestro recently, was he similar there? I may need to go look at that game, I'm townreading his style but maybe he's just the loose fast-thinking type.

[Aureal]

I feel like there's very little left to even mass claim at this point.

In fact, it's just me who hasn't given out any role info, isn't it?

Maybe we should've done this already.

[Aureal]

We've got less than two days to deadline, where did it all go, ugh

I hope people are paying attention

[Aureal]

I guess I may as well go ahead. I spent like the whole first day crumbing my role messing around about following Drew's vote. Because I'm basically a follower but with some tweaks. I don't just get what actions someone took, I get the real name of the target too. So it could've been really useful if I had targeted someone who was actually doing anything. Because I can't target someone else, I'm just stalking the same person forever unless we eliminate my target. (This is why I argued the definition of 'elimination' with you, I had clarified with the mod that it just referred to voting; any other means of them leaving the game I'm just SOL with no target).

[Aureal]

HOW WOULD WE KNOW WHETHER HE ACTIVATES DANCE PARTY OR NOT

WTF MAN

[Aureal]

LIKE I SPECIFICALLY ASKED IF WE WOULD GET CONFIRMATION OF IT DOING ANYTHING

AND THAT WAS A NO

IT COULD BE ALL MADE UP

ARE YOU JUST TROLLING

[Aureal]

Okay so EVENTUALLY he added the bit about ASSUMING it opens a PT

Opening a PT would NOT prove the roleblocking part is also true, merely that a PT opening ability was used

[Aureal]

See even you aren't certain he's still town apparently

If he's not town now he isn't gonna frigging use it, doesn't matter if he gets scumread for it

[Aureal]

Maestro/Dan/Thomith/Titus seems like a possible solve

I'm losing my townread on Maestro, just peeked at that commercials game which assume is what you referenced, and yeah he does seem pretty similar from what I skimmed (can't really bear to read in depth). So I could go along with something like that. Are you changing your mind on Titus or just thinking she's plausibly been converted?

[Aureal]

FL is assuming I'm scum and trying to deduce who my buddies are or what makes sense with my posts and behavior alone.

So you think/know FL is town then

[Aureal]

I've used my dance night tonight, I've checked and I can cancel it if anyone is opposed to that happening.

UNVOTE:

The people that are just now doubting the dance night, when it's been claimed for a while are pinging me, because it feels like they are trying to push for my lim before it can happen, to avoid the blocking of factional action part of my role.

Who do you feel is "just now" doubting it?

[Aureal]

I've used my dance night tonight, I've checked and I can cancel it if anyone is opposed to that happening.

UNVOTE:

The people that are just now doubting the dance night, when it's been claimed for a while are pinging me, because it feels like they are trying to push for my lim before it can happen, to avoid the blocking of factional action part of my role.

Who do you feel is "just now" doubting it?

You

I've been constantly pointing out that we don't have any way of confirming your claim, so I'm rather annoyed it just NOW bothers you. Especially since I haven't made anything like a move to vote you, there's not a chance I'm doing that with the potential benefit of the dance party still on the table.

[Aureal]

Like, bud, I'm not even the one who brought it up. Dan brought it up as an absurd way to discredit ME for not necessarily taking it into account when thinking the possibility of future conversion.

[Aureal]

What the hell

I swear I made a post way the hell back asking whether we got confirmation of dance party being used and talked with someone who didn't think it did

And I can't fucking find it

Maybe someone else made it and I just read it and it answered my question so I didn't actually write it??

[Aureal]

But you can see from my qualification in that other post of "if Thomith is on the level" that I'm clearly not unquestioningly accepting it, anyway

[Aureal]

uh well
if you are not already cult then you can get converted whenever cult feels like
if you are the original traitor then cult now can figure out not to target you
if there are any other powers which target off of real names instead of player names they now know who they are targeting plus any information tied to your real name would then be known

i am left thinking about what your claim means for your alignment
might have to wait for flavor leaf to give a summary of your flavor and see if that lines up with your claimed role

what even is the point of this post? Theta feels like an overlooked scum slot

Theta is the slot Dan's trying to get us to compromise on, so I'm not comfortable with Theta today.

Yeah, if Theta was scum I doubt I'd be getting all the heat that I am since I'm like the only one who's been townreading her for some time.

[Aureal]

What the hell

I swear I made a post way the hell back asking whether we got confirmation of dance party being used and talked with someone who didn't think it did

And I can't fucking find it

Maybe someone else made it and I just read it and it answered my question so I didn't actually write it??

I remember being asked that question to be fair so i'll look too later.

If you did, then for sure, I'm wrong about how it seemed like you were reacting.

P-edit: I get where you're coming from, but you also have to understand why the timing looks weird af from my pov too?

Oh, I looked and cannot find

anyone

asking about this. And yet we both remember it happening. Did we fall into an alternate dimension?

And no, I have no idea why the timing looks weird to you. You aren't being pushed by anyone so I don't know why you're sensitive to people acknowledging that they cannot know the truth of the matter. It's just a fact. I'm the miselimination being pushed here, not you.

[Aureal]

I literally did not even have your dance party in my thoughts anywhere when I made that offhand gripe about the risk of conversion until Dan brought it up. Which, if you'll note, he used to immediately attack me. Because saying "hey you remember the dance party right, I don't think the risk of conversion is actually all that high" wouldn't suit his agenda.

[Aureal]

I'm busy today and didn't read in depth and certainly didn't read Maestro trolling, but my takeaways are Maestro being almost certainly scum and I think I'm leaning to wanting him today. Not the greatest but still informative if he's just the traitor but I can still see a possible world where Dan is wrongheaded town and Maestro decided to act out in hopes we'd see this as protecting Dan and vote him instead of Maestro. Honestly, biancospino voting Dan is making me more concerned of that because she's done nothing today but claim the coffee so I think they might have gotten her last night.

I feel like the dance party would block a recruitment even if we cut groupscum down today, I'd still consider it a factional action even with one remaing member. But it doesn't seem to even matter because Thomith says it's not going to protect him??? No idea why he'd claim that x_x

I'll be around before deadline but for now VOTE: Maestro. If he's traitor he's protecting Dan I think? And if groupscum yay

[Aureal]

Plus there was 8 votes on Maestro on the last page. I think it's safe to say an elimination has been achieved.

[Aureal]

So you had to invent time travel?

[Aureal]

I don't even think 50/50 is unreasonable given the circumstances. A communications check is pretty far from a hard guilty, and Maestro would've been able to prove that his communication was a messenger ability, albeit at the loss of a night of telling anything to the main team. But there probably isn't even that much use for messaging your team after the first chance to send a message letting them know you're their traitor, so not even much loss.

[Aureal]

VOTE: ActionDan

Getting tired of this trying to make hay out of anything and everything

[Aureal]

I don't think you AND Cakez are groupscum, but one of you pretty much has to be

[Aureal]

Where the hell else am I supposed to look? I refuse to believe Drew or Leaf would be scum here. Thomith and bianco's roles indicate likely not groupscum. Titus just boggles me and everyone else seems to think she's town for reasons I can't fathom. Hu may be a convert but I think we've covered why she's not groupscum. That leaves me with an actionable pool of you, Cakez, Roden, and Theta. I've never bought into your defensiveness of the friendship group: it clearly seems to be a group where scum get to have the info they need to target who they want but also have a higher risk of being blocked due to the within-group protections. It's a tradeoff- higher risk for higher reward. Just having a traitor in there makes no sense, especially if you somehow think Maestro wasn't the original but a recruit.

I'm also noting that you're calling out Hu as being converted N1 but haven't pointed out that this would make her claimed inno on Roden invalid.

[Aureal]

I think anyone who seriously thinks I would be groupscum here after Maestro's breakdown needs to get their marbles checked. I don't normally much care for defending my towniness but I think Maestro did a good job spewing me town there. The guy was after me hard, discrediting me all game including when I was seriously a prospect to be the elimination, then melted down after wagons shifted away from me. The question is whether it was because it shifted to him or because it shifted to him and his groupscum leader.

[Aureal]

Aureal has apparently never rolled scum, so I'm not sure why you think that

It’s not a meta thing, it’s a personality thing.

[Aureal]

I'm extremely annoyed at this game. I have prepared a mountain of evidence, both social and mechanical only to be told no without any real reason by certain slots. If we don't fade Cakez today, I don't frankly see a point where we ever will.

lol this is such a load of bs
What social argument have you offered for me being scum? Absolutely none. The only thing you've argued is that your role gives me a 50/50 of being scum, so like if you're gonna push me like this constantly just say that

Maestro's defense of you, hard and consistent fmpov.

This sort of thing is why Titus just baffles me

Cakez is scum because Maestro hard defended him?
I'm scum because Maestro... hard pushed me???

Sigh

[Aureal]

wassup jv

'ello sir.

Oh no...
Time to be paranoid for the rest of the game

[Aureal]

Join me in just basically writing the slot off as probably the N2 recruit?

[Aureal]

Well I just read the first 10 pages again

My big takeaway is that I wasn't even suspicious enough of bianco, she looks even worse now

I want to find a way to shut off my mech expectations so I can scum-read that slot again

[Aureal]

Maybe the coffee is a lie
And Flavor is scum with bianco
And they recruited Theta to also claim coffee
And they got Hu n1 rather than doing the flavor cop thing and that was all clever theater

Yeah that's definitely it, totally viable theory

@_@

[Aureal]

I guess my other takeaway from early reading is strengthened confidence that Kitty/Maestro is original traitor

Spoiler:

I don't remember playing with cult ever.

So I'm just slightly adrift right now.

Essentially, what I believe massclaiming offers is everyone knowing who they're targeting instead of having to guess if theirs is a role that targets flavor names. Whether this is a net benefit to Town or to Scum depends on the exact roles in play, which we do not know, nor should we be trying to speculate on so early.

However, it is my belief that the chance is worth taking to enforce consistency and accountability.

I have a strong suspicion that the cult can use names to convert. You're nullifying town's advantage by massclaiming so nah.

VOTE: Rat

This reads to me as though Kitty is softing role information. Yet it would be strange if we had multiple roles giving the same information as Town.

So... 50/50 shot between Kitty and Flavor, and I was already suspicious of Kitty

I'm not.

The game took a while to start so I had time to spec about the setup a bit while thinking about what we knew.

I mean ngl it's pretty obvious to see cult, and see true names. Pretty basic setup spec.

[Aureal]

This game stagnated after Maestro fade means scum are 100% hoping town just end up on the wrong spot, so i think it’s indicative of us being right somewhere every time.

Agreed. It's Cakez.

If you wanna explain why please do. I just realized that Leaf's miller claim means your role is probably true but your last stance was that it's Cakez and I, and I know that isn't the case. Is your read on Cakez severable from that theory?

[Aureal]

OK I guess you have 4 already about to get another?

And how would she know, as a convert?

[Aureal]

Well I think we're probably done here after the night

At least I didn't have to waste more time rereading more of the game

[Aureal]

The funny thing here is that maybe none of us even know whether the game is over- I'm not sure the cult even gets confirmation of their recruiting succeeding or not.

I guess they would know that the game is not over, if Cakez is actually scum. Otherwise, who knows

[Aureal]

Pretty much where I'm at too, except put Roden in there instead of me Hu and JV as recruits of course

[Aureal]

Gogogo VOTE: ActionDan

[Aureal]

Quite a useless role if scum count as trustworthy

We have to get through another night still guys, why the heck would we claim names?

[Aureal]

That was traitor. 90% og unless the mod has secretly given everyone a name change if recruited plus reverse Miller status. Which, considering this game, I can't entirely rule out.

Okay srsly wat

Am I reading this backwards of your intent, because Cakez was clearly a recruit. Flip even gave us the original name of his role.

Ugh why am I arguing with you, you're just wcum trying to throw confusing smoke

[Aureal]

huh
well then

roden i wanted to see what your self watch would look like in my results how could you

anyways after the cakez flip i went back and looked for any good traitor indicators and did find a very early comment about flavor leaf being a scum lord among other things so flavor leaf was my second target

so

flavor leafs room had a flavor cop action happen in it and nothing else
rodens room had a recruitment action happen in it and nothing else

also i am in the most recent list titus made as juniper

Ugh wtf

If I trust those Titus results it's not Dan and Theta

My head hurts

Maybe those nagging concerns about Drew that I was getting in my review of day one had something to them after all

UNVOTE:

[Aureal]

It’s not impossible the team is Theta, Dan, Titus together, and they’re lying about Roden getting converted.

It’s possible Roden is teamed as well, but we’ll see.

I don’t know if I believe Titus is group scum ever, though.

But if Titus got converted and was lying to give cover to Dan and Theta, would she even know which names to put in when Theta's was unclaimed ? I guess it's possible recruits get told both real and username of the leaders but that doesn't quite feel right.

[Aureal]

So i targeted Aureal last night.

And Aureal flavor basically says she wants the autographs, and she will follow that person.

It says she’ll follow that person…to her doom.

This has me thinking Drew could be a potential “Cult Leader” type where if he goes down, the game is over. Like a Politcal Godfather if anyone’s ever played that style of game before.

This also kind of checks out with Drew possibly Alien’ing Dan the night Maestro got Converted.

Did Drew know who Dan was targeting that night?

Also I'm a bit miffed you used your investigation on me and came up with this wacky theory after getting exactly the sort of result you should have expected from my claim. Remember from the addict flips: "You also know that you will be endgamed if they are both eliminated." Our objective here is clear, we have two groupscum to take down.

[Aureal]

Like i get it, it’s a tinfoil, i feel like that’s par for the course but i switched my target like 3 times during the night. I think you were a fine enough target, and it at least shows you weren’t completely off the rails with your role claim.


Just doing journalist work.

I just wanted to make sure you remember that because I don't want you to go paranoia on me and snap vote me in elo or something. This is something of a problem for me.

That Titus covering for Dan and Theta theory is looking more and more realistic here from these last few posts.

[Aureal]

oh wait hu tao had an inno on roden right

hmm
that would have to mean hu tao + roden + flavor leaf then i think if roden was group scum
which i kinda doubt as that would mean hu tao or flavor had to have been converted night one i think and

oh wait hu lost their ability day two right
hmmmmm

Like, it would be sad if Theta decided to frame Roden here, just plain forgetting that Hu had cleared him n1. She could've picked someone else but I guess maybe Flavor Leaf was a convenient second target since his role was well proven already. Which, incidentally, makes me even more sus of her because why the hell do you target him here instead of someone who might actually be groupscum?!

[Aureal]

And he's just been feeding us all sorts of useful setup information?

Speaking of which, nothing new on that front today?