(micro 1101) mystery box of silver 16: tinkleton (it tinkled)

[Ausuka]

I am Pond

VOTE: cakez

[Ausuka]

hrmrmrmmrm

VOTE: Snow

[Ausuka]

I have decided gypyx is town sorry

[Ausuka]

I expect everyone to unvote now

[Ausuka]

I have decided gypyx is town sorry

go on...

23 is a weird post. I think scum during rvs is likely to be more cautious and self conscious, and not make posts like that

[Ausuka]

I don't know if this game feels dead or I just need to adjust my expectations. Well that might be kind of my fault anyway if true? I'm not used to having to put in actual legwork in rvs, but the whole 'sitting back' thing obviously doesn't work if everyone does it.

My snow vote was for the "helpless townie" thing. I think scum are somewhat more likely to write that line, probably not out of any conscious strategy but because their mental focus is on Acting Like a Town Would and it leads them to say stuff like that that puts emphasis on themselves being town.

@Deus - I don't mind the gimmick, but could you try to word it so it's a bit more clear what point you are trying to make? I'm struggling to parse your posts.

Klick in a world where gypyx is town do you think scum is unlikely to vote/push them on page 1? or do you think the way cakez and clout did it was specifically towny in some way

[Ausuka]

I agree that scum are more likely to be self-conscious, but my reading of 23 is that Gypyx feels self-conscious and is trying to cover it

Maybe? It just reads as such a, like, I hate to repeat myself but strange and out of place post. I think if I was scum and feeling self conscious there's, like, no way I could bring myself to hit submit on something like that. Even if it succeeds as not coming off as self conscious, I think self conscious scum would be worried about appearing awkward or off.

Pedit: the former mostly

[Ausuka]

I thought Cakez's approach and timing when saying his vote was serious felt realistic as a town progression
My townread on Clout has more to do with their vote on me than their Gypyx push

hmm okay

One day we will find the sense of purpose

[Ausuka]

Yeah I mean idk it's true I don't know about Gypyx's play specifically and projecting my play onto hers is an imperfect substitute

Not sure I have a better way to read people I haven't really played with

[Ausuka]

My belief scum are more self conscious / cautious on average is based on previous games

My belief that gypyx wasn't self conscious is based on my understanding of human psychology which is largely based off my own brain

[Ausuka]

Gypyx why am i obvtown

[Ausuka]

can you explain the deus please make readable posts bit

[Ausuka]

Ausuka I'm curious if you have an opinion on Gypyx yet

slight townlean?

Is there a reason you decided to ask me this? I think gypyx is the player i've talked about the most

[Ausuka]

uh what do you mean by the claim thing

[Ausuka]

I don't know if this game feels dead or I just need to adjust my expectations. Well that might be kind of my fault anyway if true? I'm not used to having to put in actual legwork in rvs, but the whole 'sitting back' thing obviously doesn't work if everyone does it.

My snow vote was for the "helpless townie" thing. I think scum are somewhat more likely to write that line, probably not out of any conscious strategy but because their mental focus is on Acting Like a Town Would and it leads them to say stuff like that that puts emphasis on themselves being town.

@Deus - I don't mind the gimmick, but could you try to word it so it's a bit more clear what point you are trying to make? I'm struggling to parse your posts.

Klick in a world where gypyx is town do you think scum is unlikely to vote/push them on page 1? or do you think the way cakez and clout did it was specifically towny in some way

There are no gimmicks. There are also no words - you believe yourself to exist, but you are within the

Illusory World

, which indeed, is pure illusion. A mere

dream

.

I am an Evil Demon. I exist in what the Illusory World knows as

Dark Matter

. I am infesting the wires of what you know as the

Internet

through what you know as

Dark Energy

.

As for why you struggle to parse my posts - I am infesting your

Mind

, as well - for there are no words. Only a consciousness which was never yours to begin with.

Someday, the dream will end. Perhaps yours will end today.

Does this make me, like, the main character?

[Ausuka]

Does this make me, like, the main character?

Correct. Unless you are able to peer in to the minds of others, then your conception of reality is necessarily informed by a Solipsist framework of understanding.

There could be no main character other than you, from your perspective.

Sorry, I think you misunderstood. I'm more curious about your perspective. If you're a demon from another world, and this is my dream, does this make everyone else just fragments of my imagination or something? Why even bother engaging with them in that case?

Not that I want you to talk about philosophy for the whole game, I just really want the answer to this one question

[Ausuka]

Deus is using a lotta words to say not that much so I'm good with this wagon now

What does this mean exactly

Like do you think Deus decided to do this after they received their role pm

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Sircakez

I do not like the pivot in answering my question from "using a lot of words to say not much" to "the motivation for attacking votes on them"

I just struggle to believe this push in general, i find Naerys and Klick's approach of just saying "yeah we do not want to play a game with this person" to be more natural and real

[Ausuka]

Whenever i load this game i think of them

[Ausuka]

every time i join a game it's cursed

something similar happened last time i joined a micro theme

[Ausuka]

Why does it feel like everyone is so confident they have solved the game

We have 7 pages and half of it is garbage

[Ausuka]

VOTE: deus deceptor

Bye bye

Elaborate

[Ausuka]

psyche, deus and snow are probably town

it would be vaguely funny if it was actually cakez and robert

i don't think mafia game tends to be that convenient and also there are a bunch of people i could see being mafia here

pedit: i mean early reads are correct decently often but i still feel strongly it is not particularly wise to declare the game solved at this stage

[Ausuka]

i think snow's push on gypyx around 92 is kind of good and i can follow the natural thought process through it. 70 is, like, marginally +town response to being pushed

i thought naerys' push on deus was townily nonchalant at first but now it feels much more "i genuinely cannot stand this person and refuse to play the game" which feels nailike.

[Ausuka]

i don't think naerys's thought process was necessarily focused on win conditions. it reads more to me like she just couldn't stand playing with deus and that would probably be true regardless of their alignments

[Ausuka]

uh what do you mean by the claim thing

Robert i asked first why didn't you answer me

[Ausuka]

psyche, deus and snow are probably town

it would be vaguely funny if it was actually cakez and robert

i don't think mafia game tends to be that convenient and also there are a bunch of people i could see being mafia here

pedit: i mean early reads are correct decently often but i still feel strongly it is not particularly wise to declare the game solved at this stage

While i agree with the thought here, we still have to go through the easy solves before we can start thinking about more elaborate stuff right?

I don't really agree, I don't think we need to be going for solves at all. I think early in the game trying to figure out the probability some slots are scum is better than trying to nail the scumteam because the chances of successfully doing the latter are generally really low.

[Ausuka]

I'm liking laylas entrance!!

Was your vote and unvote on Deus purely policy?

yes and no. I was starting to like what psyche was saying about the slot. plus I figured why not let people play how they want to play like who am I to say I don't wanna play with him I'm nobody.

Ok but why did you vote there in the first place

[Ausuka]

i feel like i Should have new things to say but like i don't really lol

I'll be around for a little bit pls feel free to interact with me if ur around

Pedit: I guess I don't find it especially fun. It's true that it's better than nothing but any form of solving drives sortable discussion? And I think there should just never be a scumread on d1 confident enough to not even look at other players unless you are part of an extremely small minority of players who are like amazing as town. Generally at my most confident d1 i might say a flip is a 50/50

that being said, if you find it fun, totally go ahead - I don't want to police how other people play or anything, just as I said originally I think it is likely to backfire to confidently declare the game to be solved

[Ausuka]

i mean shrug i think in most games town does get eliminated on day 1. i did personally have to transcribe the results of like, hundreds of games! (anyone who hasn't seen the normal archive pls check it out if you care at all. i spent a lot of time on it)
i think scum gets elimmed d1, like, 30% of the time? it's certainly not rare, but not something i would expect to be happening a majority of the time, and in general i do think it's rare that you would see people with read accuracy better than being able to 50/50 scumreads on day 1. i guess there are outliers there

this might be more of a MD discussion than a this game one though

i think cakez probably does have the highest likelihood to be mafia this game so far!

[Ausuka]

Yeah we are probably gonna have to agree to disagree here

[Ausuka]

Yeah sure

I do think stuff like policy eliminations on day 1 are rare but shrug. If your message is "vote the person most likely to be mafia" that is a message I would generally support

[Ausuka]

it is true that a naked vote with the text "bye bye" as what i believe to be an e-1 vote does not exactly inspire confidence

it's kind of too blatant to be massively scummy but it would be helpful if they were willing to, like, explain the thought process behind their vote at all

[Ausuka]

Zzz ok I did misread some of that

[Ausuka]

Ok after briefly thinking about this I have no strong feelings about this vote

[Ausuka]

If we have nothing to go off of, let us start again from the beginning. Back to the RVS we go.

VOTE: Ausuka

Team Mafia winner means too sweaty for this casual game.

I have been summoned

I got carried by shea and morning tweet in team mafia. Morning tweet is such an amazing town player she's like a cheat code

[Ausuka]

Idk i still think cakez is scummy but i have very little energy and playing this game feels like squeezing water out of a stone

i would probably contend with t3's statement that fake/reach is like exactly the reason he is getting voted in the first place

the "this game feels bad" is something every player is doing for a reason. i would like 100% believe cakez is mafia and still feels that way.

Robert's explanation felt fairly believable to me. Honestly i think he's kind of towny but i don't have an Actually Good Reason for it he just vibes w/ me

[Ausuka]

klick's a she!
but yeah ive been lazy about the cakez thing
now that everyone has had a chance to weigh in on him there's no value at all in delaying a more detailed push

also uh is klick a she. i was very much not under that impression and they don't have any pronouns listed? is there a place they say this

[Ausuka]

i guess i can say i don't think klick was really going through the motions of sorting and i think that slot is town

it's probably a believable thought to have

[Ausuka]

i guess i can say i don't think klick was really going through the motions of sorting and i think that slot is town

it's probably a believable thought to have

What do you mean by this?

i don't think it's necessarily a fake thought but i don't think it's true

[Ausuka]

i feel like i should be trying to turn up the temperature somehow

i don't think there's much of anything to work with?? a lot of town players aren't giving reads and stuff so there's a lot of room for scum to hide, and that kind of perpetuates itself because it's hard for town players to get reads.

I will give a reads list in some attempt to rectify this.

Psyche
t3
layla
robert
snow
Clout
Gypyx
Sircakez

The gypyx take is probably the only fresh one? Her confidence just suddenly plummeted in a way I wasn't a massive fan of. Like idk in a vacuum I understand being like 'whatever I'm giving up my reads' and then not feeling super able to generate new ones, but she was so confident in solving the game super early and then that all evaporates after the deus drama? Idk I don't like it and it feels like she saw the game losing energy and just went along with it but went about it awkwardly

[Ausuka]

i feel like i should be trying to turn up the temperature somehow

i don't think there's much of anything to work with?? a lot of town players aren't giving reads and stuff so there's a lot of room for scum to hide, and that kind of perpetuates itself because it's hard for town players to get reads.

I will give a reads list in some attempt to rectify this.

Psyche
t3
layla
robert
snow
Clout
Gypyx
Sircakez

The gypyx take is probably the only fresh one? Her confidence just suddenly plummeted in a way I wasn't a massive fan of. Like idk in a vacuum I understand being like 'whatever I'm giving up my reads' and then not feeling super able to generate new ones, but she was so confident in solving the game super early and then that all evaporates after the deus drama? Idk I don't like it and it feels like she saw the game losing energy and just went along with it but went about it awkwardly

Who are the town people not giving reads?

I mean I have a reads list there

If you're implying I shouldn't know there are town doing that, it's because I'm pretty sure there can only be 2 scum in the game

[Ausuka]

v/la until late monday, apologies.

[Ausuka]

Ok hi I'm back

[Ausuka]

I also don't really like N2 watcher as a claim

I mean there's no reason that couldn't be a real role it's just very convenient for mafia to not have to claim any results until elo

[Ausuka]

hi ok so I am having deadline rush rn. really am sorry etc. I have like 18 hours until it's due and I can post more after that

I will contribute slightly by saying I am not.convinced of a psyche wagon

[Ausuka]

Snow is obviously struggling but i kinda like where his head's at in a general sense, there's also a few smaller towntells here and there

actually it's PC who i'm getting my eye on right now (as well as robert but this read is getting a bit stale)

PC seems very complaceant and happy to keep the game in it's state of semi-stagnation, the insistance on Psyche and the cakez post for instance really feels like willingly going down a dead end

Where exactly is Snow's head at to you

[Ausuka]

367/370 seem useful for sorting robert but i worry of being mislead by tone

I guess this is also probably where I am at when it comes to robert. There's just not a lot of reliable stuff to go on but, like, I think he's at least marginally townier than snow is

[Ausuka]

Starting to think you're probably town but also what's done is done

i feel like we have done enough for today, maybe we could've made more but it was also a weird day 1

Gypyx can you explain where your head is at here

Like why did you think cakez was town at this point and why did you not try and go after Robert instead

Also like potentially nitpicky but would you stand by the idea that we did enough on day 1

[Ausuka]

Clout's posts kind of lack a clear trajectory. Not super clear to me what he's thinking during the d2 psyche push

I guess shading Layla immediately before she dies is kind of towny lol

[Ausuka]

probably wrong to focus on as ausuka's problem her relative rankings of robert/snow. after second look, more off is how snow in particular:
- was highlighted as "probably town" with me and deus in 171
- for reasons as weak as those listed in 173
- but sat in the middle of her reads list below robert for most of the time thereafter

snow was always the odd one out in that group imo

I didn't really feel strongly about the snow town read and I definitely thought he fell off after that

I have definitely been passive, mostly just been busy and also unfortunately do not enjoy playing this game rn sorry.

[Ausuka]

Snow is obviously struggling but i kinda like where his head's at in a general sense, there's also a few smaller towntells here and there

actually it's PC who i'm getting my eye on right now (as well as robert but this read is getting a bit stale)

PC seems very complaceant and happy to keep the game in it's state of semi-stagnation, the insistance on Psyche and the cakez post for instance really feels like willingly going down a dead end

Where exactly is Snow's head at to you

well that's exactly the thing, i think snow himself is kinda confused on where his head's at ? in a town way ofc

I don't really think I see this tbh looking at Snow's posts? Like the closest thing to making me think that is the "are there two scums in this game" post which to me does feel like something scum could say pretty easily.

I want to do a more in depth response and stuff but it's really late here sooooo I'll do it tomorrow morning

[Ausuka]

also ausuka's 491 reminds of my scum strat in that one game you and i played together

what is this referring to

[Ausuka]

i agree with the first two points gypyx made about snow's early game. i also liked snow's early game. I think starting with 194 was when he started to fall off for me. I think usually I might think it was too blatant, but since there was a whole discussion in this game about self-consciousness on the first few pages I don't really think that here. I think it's also not a super natural thought to have based on the thread's view of Deus, so it comes across as more cheeky-on-purpose than anything else?

Cakez called Ausuka, Psyche and Layla as towns and Gypyx as scum. These four and Robert are ready to lim him.

So, on Cakez' own case he should be limmed. He should have a better excuse than to say that his role requires him not to be limmed for 2 full days.

I can also hammer if needed, but Psyche seems to want more information, so will wait for a while.

This is snow's biggest attempt at generating his own reads and like, i doubt scum!snow feels the need to make this post? Basically it's a bit too convoluted to be a fabrication by scum!snow when there was a lot of steps he could choose to go through before[/quote]
i somewhat disliked this post when i initially read it. looking at it again, i'm actually not sure i interpreted it correctly. @snow - what did you mean by 'on cakez' own case'?

Well. N2 watcher means that a player should leave for 2 full days and nights to report on D3 be helpful to the town, yes? When there are potentially 3 towns and 2 scums, so an ELo?

kinda mindmelded with that and like, i think scum!snow would be self conscious enough to *not* deliberately choose to copy what i've said previously

I don't think it was just you and snow who said something like this. i think it's a pretty obvious point to make and not one scum would be especially reluctant to repeat.

I think reading this has made me feel better about gypyx because I can kind of follow what she's saying and why. It's possible she calculated this for towncred or whatever but like I feel like most scum players in this situation just don't try to push to get someone who is not townread to be townread in this gamestate?

ok i did something i'll be back tonight after i finish the next project whoo

[Ausuka]

Okay! Hope any info prs are aware.

In the meantime, I think the only way we achieve confidence about aureal-town is through poe, or if she goes out of her way to lead a wagon that flips scum of course.

ignoring the part where you call me aureal, is the argument here really that just literally nothing i say can be townread

also if you're coming at my slot from this angle why would leading on scum clear me

[Ausuka]

think scum gypx is capable of seeing the value in pushing a snowtown case at this step in the game though yeah it has town equity

i mean i think most people are capable of doing most things as scum. in this game in particular i think it's difficult to read into things because scum aren't being, like, forced into things. which like i will hold my hand up and say yeah that's partially my fault but it's still true

i think it's like a counterintuitive thing to do as scum so +town

[Ausuka]

Hi. Sorry for replacing out. I had deadlines like every day and I'm actually really not good at academic stuff so it was a big struggle, and I knew it was going to continue for a little while. I probably should have planned ahead more to prevent this from happening.

Me not posting as much definitely wasn't a strategy - if I was actually here on d2 I think the outcome of the game would have been much more assured. I do think I am like, generally capable of creating the kind of content that would have gotten me townread at that time? I was just lacking in time and energy.

Re: psyche - I do think playing town is generally really hard. Scum players always have the initiative and can do whatever they want - in most situations scum have a lot of flexibility. I could have voted Deus on day 1, I chose not to for a similar reason I wouldn't usually push limbait on day 1. Like, it's possible I would have gotten away with it, but my feeling at the time was that I would come off as townier by pushing elsewhere and generating more individual thoughts / content, especially in a way that I think sort of aligns with most people's idea of good townplay, and that doing so would also create more options for 'limmable townies' later in case something happened with deus, like a claim or whatever.

Congrats to drew and worst for their win! Worst did very well for the time he was here, and thanks to drew for taking on my slot.