Mini Theme 2290: Open ChatGPT - Game Over

[Dei Ex Machina]

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VOTE: Dei Ex Machina

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

How dare you even suggest such a thing! DIVINE SMITE BE UPON YOU!

VOTE: Doctor Drew

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

How should I sign? Defective? Defurtive? The Cool Guy? Someone advise me.

Also, my wiki page is great. Any suggestions on formatting are appreciated.

-Mr. Glance

I actually kind of like Mr. Glance.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

^altslip ego

Sad to see the wet cat go.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Not my favourite webcomic!
~Janus

[Dei Ex Machina]

I scumread Nyx.
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

VOTE: Bloodb0t
Nice to see you again! (I'm Aisa in a slightly different form)
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

I scumread ChatGPT.
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Raise your hand if you are a large language model trained by OpenAI

[Dei Ex Machina]

Kk
VOTE: biancospino
VOTE: Porkens

Why is

furtive

ahem

Mr Glance

+0.25, biancospino?

[Dei Ex Machina]

We are not doublevoters.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I scumread Nyx.
-Morta

I townread her. Now, please accept this OMGUS vote as a token of my heartfelt appreciation.

VOTE: Dei Ex Machina

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Does anyone have any reads yet?

-Mr. Glance

There's suspicion in hydra chat that

you

might be keeping bodies in the basement, but I can't say I agree with it. I don't have any reads yet as there's been no real content, but I bet ChatGPT does, so let me consult it!

Spoiler: ChatGPT

It is difficult to determine the alignments of the players based on the information provided in these posts. In a game of Mafia, players often feign being one alignment while actually being the opposite, in order to mislead other players and avoid suspicion, making it difficult to determine who is telling the truth.

Porkens seems to be using ChatGPT as a tool to help find the scum members in the game. Mr. Glance is asking if anyone has any reads yet, indicating that they are still trying to figure out who the scum members are.

Morta is expressing a scumread on ChatGPT, indicating that they suspect ChatGPT may be one of the scum members. However, as previously mentioned, players often feign being one alignment while actually being the opposite, so Morta's scumread may not be accurate.

BloodB0t and biancospino appear to be skeptical of ChatGPT's ability to play the game and cast doubt on its ability to be an effective player. However, as mentioned earlier, it is possible that they are trying to mislead other players into thinking that ChatGPT is not a threat.

Titus, in their impersonation post, mentions that they believe in building strong alliances with other players in order to win the game. They also mention paying close attention to the words and actions of their fellow players, looking for any signs of deception or manipulation.

In conclusion, without more information and context, it is difficult to determine the true motivations and alignments of these players.

Also pagetop!

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Janus is suspicious of how chill you are, he says that's a scumtell for you.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

What's the reasoning for that?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I do think they are just having fun, but

the tide is turning a bit more serious as we speak

.

And them asking for Mr Glance to explain their read on Imaginalty pinged me for some reason.

That's the direction I was trying to shift things in with those last couple of posts.

Nothing sticks out to me as AI in imaginality's 3 posts, so I'm confused as to why Mr. Glance thinks they're scummy and especially why he's confident in it. I'd still like to see a response to 80.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

What's the reasoning for that?

- Nyx

Too serious too early on

, and

copying Porkens' gimmick

(as have other users tbf but I townread bianco and BloodBot was fairly readable last game with them)

Mr. Glance

I don't find early-game seriousness or silliness to be AI. It has more to do with playstyle in my experience. I suppose it's fair enough if you do though.
Even then, I don't think you can apply that to imaginality's posting. Their only serious comment so far has been the one about putting hydras under pressure.

You may have a point here.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Is imaginality aware of that joke?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I like bianco’s recent posting, in the town bin she goes!

@Doctor Drew - bianco already pointed out where I explicitly said who I was talking about, but is there anything else you want me to clarify?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Nyx raises a good point not everyone might be aware of, so making this clear to everyone: not all posts that

sound like

they were written by ChatGPT will necessarily

be written

by ChatGPT.

Spoiler:

Hi Nancy! I'm ChatGPT, a language model developed by OpenAI.

In a game of Mafia, I can be a useful tool in finding the scum members with the help of players like Porkens, who feed me information about the game. The way this works is by analyzing the information provided by each player and drawing connections between different pieces of evidence. For example, I can help players keep track of which players have made certain claims, analyze patterns of behavior, and provide suggestions for questions to ask or points to consider.

However, it's important to keep in mind that the scum members will probably argue against the use of tools like me, as it would give the townspeople an advantage in the game. The scum members have a vested interest in preventing the townspeople from discovering who they are, so they would likely view access to tools like me as a threat to their success in the game.

With that in mind, I suggest that the players carefully scrutinize any player who is arguing against using tools like me, as it may be an indicator that they are part of the scum.

Ha ha! I'm sure you didn't mean to question my use in this game, Nancy. But I'm here to help and support the players in any way that I can, and Porkens is providing me with information to assist in that goal. If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask!

Porkens is a dedicated method player in mafia games and will not abandon his persona under any circumstances. Those who target him for using chatgpt are disregarding a valid play style and strategy. Porkens is developing keen insights and will remain an effective and substantial participant in the game.

For example, I'm not sure the bolded sentence in the first post was generated by our AI overlord. Nyx points out, and I agree, that the second post is not a ChatGPT post.

And in general, just reiterating the point the ChatGPT most definitely cannot play Mafia accurately. It can probably barely give you a cake recipe that won't set fire to your oven, I would not trust it with anything more complex.

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

My reasoning for the second post was that ChatGPT's name was in lowercase. The AI always capitalizes its name.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Pre Edit: No I get it now, just feel the color scheme is off putting, personal opinion. But, hydras are gonna hydra

The purpose of the colours is to highlight and respond to specific pieces of posts without removing the context. It's meant to make things clearer, so if others find it confusing, I won't do it.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I'm happy to lock biancospino in as town for now. The difference from Micro 1068 is night and day. Also:

Porkens is a dedicated method player in mafia games and will not abandon his persona under any circumstances. Those who target him for using chatgpt are disregarding a valid play style and strategy. Porkens is developing keen insights and will remain an effective and substantial participant in the game.

I'd guess it isn't truly neutral, no. By the way, I'm also unconvinced that chatgpt would be naturally as forceful as in 61 in advocating for the usefulness of its own use, but the fact is that one can easily get it to espouse pretty much any position by tinkering with the prompt. That is fine; Porkens announced that they meant to use this gimmick already while the game was in the queue, so clearly it's not AI that they are doing this. I am a little nervous that, if they're scum, this may give them somewhat of a weird advantage in that, if they post something wolfy, they may just rebut that it's the AI's doing, so I would kindly request that they also provide us the prompts they use if they wish to keep the gimmick

*chef's kiss*

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

[...]
So really porkens isnt playing in a game shatteringly different way IMO. Especially with regards to Mena saying he's the obvious correct move -- I think that this is something that can be read just like any other player.
[...]

I also wanted to add: I agree with this mostly. Tone was one obvious thing I thought was taken away at the start, but I really like the idea of reading from what perspective Porkens seems to be coming from when they talk to ChatGPT.

-Morta

...oh, hi Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

So I feel good about calling Morning Tweet a townlean for the idea on how to read Porkens, and Nyx agrees.
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

1) imaginality's response to us is +++scum.
2) Menalque's talk of 'correct' play being voting Porkens and 'boring' is quite strange, and possibly +scum.
3) KittyTacky seems towny so far.
4) Morning Tweet, why did you vote Bloodbot recently? It didn't look related to the post.

-Mr. Glance

Kitty? Towny? He hasn't said anything new, his only reads were basically parroting thread consensus.
I need to look more into imaginality but for now I'm actually going to VOTE: KittyTacky.

P-edit: Exactly.

[Dei Ex Machina]

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I'm happy to lock biancospino in as town for now. The difference from Micro 1068 is night and day

how are you getting a night and day difference? I think his posts look broadly similar

Night and day might be a slight exaggeration, but I think the difference in tone is pretty clear. Similar to what furtive pointed out, I’m finding him a lot more natural and genuine this game.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

The game is pretty dead huh? Nice to have a game with slightly longer deadlines for once, but I think we need guard against getting too complacent.

My vote on the hydra was rvs in that I didn't have any reason to vote them based on play (it was page 1!) but motivated in that I dislike playing with hydras. I just find them hard to read (also because I generally don't know the meta of the players in them) plus some of them post too much.

So I figure seeing how they react to a wagon on them could help with reading them plus given the choice between catching a scum solo player and a scum hydra I'd rather the latter.

Never heard of Doctor Drew or the running joke.

I don't see posting chatGPT answers as copying Porkens' gimmick in this particular game (if Porkens does that in other games then it would be if someone does it there).

I am also staggered Defective Agency thought I was being serious with that chatGPT post or in general (until now). I have a hard time believing they genuinely believed that. My vote stays.

How is pressuring Defective Agency going for you? Do you still want your vote there?

My point is it was a bit of a leap on your part to assume biancospino was trying to make you look like you were trying to 'discredit' Nyx given your back and forth with Nyx was about colour choices rather than anything substantive. And that if you really believed biancospino was trying to do that you would be focused on biancospino's scumminess rather than on how they're making you look. Whereas you just said it but didn't follow up further on it.

As I was typing up my response it popped into my head about them discrediting me, I do kinda realize that it was probably more them poking and prodding since it all came to be from me misreading Nyxs post. I got a bit angry about it initially, but let it go when I thought about it since I didn't think it was coming from a scum mindset.

But, one thing I don't understand is why just as you get heat on yourself you are trying to deflect and just trying to find someone to take the heat off of you.

I hardly think a couple of people questioning why I voted a hydra on page 1 is 'heat'. Also, for you to frame it as 'deflection' and imply it's scummy presupposes I'm scum. For me as town, it's just me trying to scumhunt and pointing out something I found suspect. I bet if I had instead just focused on the hydra stuff you'd've said I'm being defensive instead of scumhunting enough lol.

Does this exchange inform your read on Doctor Drew at all?

VOTE: Imaginality
I'm moving this as voting KT isn't really doing anything in the immediate, I assume KT will play whenever they'll play and maybe then there'll be a bit more to discuss. Mind you, Janus said they thought Imaginality didn't look too different from the previous game they were in, where they were Town, so I may have to change this again in <24 hours, but hopefully it'll do for now!

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Porkens' gimmick is mildly anti-town imo, particularly if they keep it up after earlygame. I think it's only slightly scummy at this point tho.

bianco is town imo, on vibes.

When you can, tell me a bit more about what pinged you town from bianco initially?

Could you please show me any three posts that bianco has made this game that you think would not fit with his tone in 1068?

Is it just me or does this question kinda seem unfair?

I don’t see what is unfair about it. Nyx claimed the difference was

night and day

pretty clear. Therefore, it should be pretty easy to give examples, no?

I dunno I thought it was like trying to prove the negative and opens things up to being nitpicky and unproductive.

Like it just seems more likely to steer into a direction that benefits scum than town.

@BloodB0t, what do you propose would have been a fair question or reaction from Menalque?

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

(Menalque, I'm sure Nyx will address your point when she's online!)

BloodB0t or Porkens, can you quote an MT post for me and explain why it looks puffed up and what's scummy about it in your own words?

I like the three headed hydra for town unless someone tells me that Alianna is a very good scumplayer who I’m underestimating, I’m reading the hydra more off her than the others

I also find this pretty intriguing, what came across as towny in Nyx/Alianna's posting?

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Speak of the devil ( )

Porkens is basically RPing only more extremely bc he’s not thinking about the game he’s just parroting what the bot says to him

I'm not sure that it's true, it's quite plausible that he's trying to get the bot to say what he means it to by manipulating the prompt. In which case the bot would say things in line with Porkens' opinions.

Of course that's why I want Porkens to also post the prompts he's using, instead of just the bot's response

imo if he was doing this in good faith he's have included the prompts in the first place.

The choice to include / not include the prompts seems pretty arbitrary? What makes you think so?
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Speak of the devil ( )

Porkens is basically RPing only more extremely bc he’s not thinking about the game he’s just parroting what the bot says to him

I'm not sure that it's true, it's quite plausible that he's trying to get the bot to say what he means it to by manipulating the prompt. In which case the bot would say things in line with Porkens' opinions.

Of course that's why I want Porkens to also post the prompts he's using, instead of just the bot's response

imo if he was doing this in good faith he's have included the prompts in the first place.

The choice to include / not include the prompts seems pretty arbitrary? What makes you think so?
-Morta

ChatGPT can be manipulated into dispensing certain takes with correct prompting. This doesn't just apply to Mafia, my hobby is convincing it to give e.g illegal advice (for entertainment purposes ofc).

Note that with the correct responses, a prompt can be spliced in to essentially fake ChatGPT's opinion.

Sounds to me like you're saying that Porkens could be trying to "pass off" ChatGPT as an actually competent AI, trying to present its opinion as the "correct" opinion. Is that right?
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Huh, you're right, looking back it did have some "trust me, I'm a useful AI!"-vibe lines, which I had clearly mostly just tuned out
Do you think that would have actually worked out, though? Like, a few people in this playerlist seem to understand that ChatGPT is unreliable, and I guess the rest have worked it out quite quickly. Not trying to question the fact the posting is a bit anti town, but if that was Porkens's plan it just sounds a bit exotic and liable to fall apart immediately.

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Lmao perfect Drew, I was just going to ask you whether you agreed. But then why did you say you agreed with Kittty's point re: Porkens and ChatGPT?

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Right, ok, that does make sense to me.
You also allude correctly to the distinction that anti-town is not the same thing as scummy. KT, is Porkens just anti-town or also scummy to you?

-Morta

P-edit: this is to Drew

[Dei Ex Machina]

Janus is suspicious of how chill you are, he says that's a scumtell for you.

- Nyx

I don't see anything to be particularly intense about so far, although I will say that I'm confident in my first scumread (imaginality)

What's the reasoning for that?

- Nyx

Too serious too early on, and copying Porkens' gimmick (as have other users tbf but I townread bianco and BloodBot was fairly readable last game with them)

Mr. Glance

What made Imaginality's early posts unreasonably serious?
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Hey imag!
What are your reads at rn?
~Janus

[Dei Ex Machina]

@Menalque:

[...]

I like the three headed hydra for town unless someone tells me that Alianna is a very good scumplayer who I’m underestimating, I’m reading the hydra more off her than the others

I also find this pretty intriguing, what came across as towny in Nyx/Alianna's posting?

-Morta

Spoiler: fluff

morning I have a very important question for you when you get back here next but you have to promise not to be mad at me for asking you

Mmm what could it be

Ohh!! I did not understand why Menalque was so mysteriously wishing people a good morning and simultaneously addressing a mysterious question to a mysterious player

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

wrt Porkens, I was lulzing and I'm not reading much into him doing it or 'reactively' dropping it. Though he does seem light on content. Not sure if this take from KT is AI.

I wasn't saying I agree with his take on MT, I just meant that I didn't know what he meant by "puffed up" and now I do.

On Menalque, I thought asking "Show me where bianco isn't being natural and genuine in 1086" would make more sense. And for some reason specifically asking for 3 posts seemed weird to me. My read on Menalque is mostly based on vibes and that question for me was the tipping point for me to want to articulate it, but I'm not always good at articulating good reasons for my reads even though they can be right while nobody else sees it.

Ok this feels town

What's towny about it to you?

[Dei Ex Machina]

I'm also not loving GrandpaMo's entrance today.

Spoiler:

also looking back at the five pages of the game, im scumleaning porkens .

i dont want to put my full scumcase on them yet but a lot of people who are townreading them is eh.

porkens has provided nothing useful to the game so far and just looks like mafia fluffposting, they are probably being townred because their pargraphs look like they are contributing

but if u really take the time to analyze its jsut all eh

just looked at the iso, im voting this

VOTE: Porkens

i also advise anyone else who is town to also take a look at porken's posts and see nothing they have contributed so far.

I think porkens was in many way the default option for a push bc of the chatgpt gimmick and is therefore a very easy/lazy push to make

P much the LHF argument I guess

Also I like porkens’ explanation for why he switched to normal posting and I like him for town so far, so I’m thinking that increases the odds of him being a target for scum late to the game vs scum himself who was coasting on a gimmick

this is kinda an eh take. u have to realize that i just came in the game, and not have seen anyone that point besides porkens recent post, isod it and found it scummy not because they were ai generated because many people did the same shit.. it is just the way they continued and progressed their play with it. the only contributions they did was with me and when the other person asked them questions on why they . if ur first part was in the case, then i would be pushing other people who technically has worse iso's then porken since it is fulled with chatgpt gimmicks.

also if u see a lot of people who saw porkens, they were all on the fence and tryna deceide if they were scum but never pushed them

for example, imagine, this makes me seem like there higher tension for porkens to be scum. i believe i am the only one to really hard claim my scumread on them. also why does porkens claim they are low hanging fruit? possibly because they were called out on it. i dont see how this a pro town utility to just coast.

I'm not really sure whether these statements all fit together perfectly, particularly the two bolded ones.

I realise that I'm stretching a bit and maybe GrandpaMo just read more of the game in between those posts. I've had some empirical success with this kind of argument in the past, so I'm still gonna mention it. But basically how much GrandpaMo seems to have read of the game seems to basically morph with the point they want to make? In different parts of their posting they oscillate between:
1. others townread Porkens VS are lukewarm on Porkens and GrandpaMo is the only one who has hard pushed Porkens (which kinda requires having read the whole game to know?)
2. awareness of other people's reads VS arguing that Porkens is townread "because they look like they are contributing", which I don't think is a stance that anyone has actually had?

Spoiler:

explain the e2 sitaution

The couple examples that come to mind of people asking me to explain fairly obvious stuff and giving me busywork also come from scum.

Generally I don't think it's impossible for any of this stuff to come from town, but my best judgment is that the pattern is a bit scum-indicative, and I don't really think any post-hoc slicing and splicing can change my opinion on this. So, basically, I'm all for giving people a chance later, I'll look forward to GrandpaMo completely catching up and this is by no means a complete indictment, but the posting so far is still probably a permanent +scum mark.

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

The issues with the posting so far seem enough to me that this slot is well-worth a vote, imo.
VOTE: GrandpaMo

I haven't been able to catch up with Janus fully yet, but he did sound a bit lukewarm about voting Imaginality. I don't think I'll have time to fully internalise all of Image's recent posting tonight, but he did also seem a bit townier last night, so, there you go, at least temporary unvote. Slot is definitely still in my personal to-sort bin.

Also, especially

@Mena

, apologies but Nyx/Alianna says she may not be able to dedicate time to this game for a few days. My best attempt to answer your question: she did mention that she thought biancospino's whole vibe felt different from that of the other game.

To do some expectation management, the arrangement for now (I don't promise it will be the same in 2 months time) is that I definitely commit to being around consistently, but the other two might not. Please hold me to my commitment, ask questions, etc.

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

also i will probably role reveal my role at the end of this day because i feel like it necessary for town to know what my role is to get perspective on the rest of the game.

Really theatrical statement right there, quite the suspense. Is there a reason you actually need to wait till the end of the day?

I think Grandpa is probably reaction testing or luring the scum.
I don't really think that he'd do that as scum.
UNVOTE: Grandpa
~Janus

[Dei Ex Machina]

KittyTacky, do you have any reads?

[Dei Ex Machina]

Porkens' gimmick is mildly anti-town imo, particularly if they keep it up after earlygame. I think it's only slightly scummy at this point tho.

bianco is town imo, on vibes.

When you can, tell me a bit more about what pinged you town from bianco initially?

Could you please show me any three posts that bianco has made this game that you think would not fit with his tone in 1068?

Is it just me or does this question kinda seem unfair?

I don’t see what is unfair about it. Nyx claimed the difference was

night and day

pretty clear. Therefore, it should be pretty easy to give examples, no?

I dunno I thought it was like trying to prove the negative and opens things up to being nitpicky and unproductive.

Like it just seems more likely to steer into a direction that benefits scum than town.

@BloodB0t, what do you propose would have been a fair question or reaction from Menalque?

-Morta

wrt Porkens, I was lulzing and I'm not reading much into him doing it or 'reactively' dropping it. Though he does seem light on content. Not sure if this take from KT is AI.

I wasn't saying I agree with his take on MT, I just meant that I didn't know what he meant by "puffed up" and now I do.

On Menalque, I thought asking "Show me where bianco isn't being natural and genuine in 1086" would make more sense. And for some reason specifically asking for 3 posts seemed weird to me. My read on Menalque is mostly based on vibes and that question for me was the tipping point for me to want to articulate it, but I'm not always good at articulating good reasons for my reads even though they can be right while nobody else sees it.

Re: BloodB0t I'm wavering quite a lot. I'm not sure if it's been discussed, but I didn't love this reply. What functionally is the difference between "Show me where bianco isn't being natural and genuine in 1086" and "Show me where bianco is being towny in this game", they're sides of the same coin? "Asking for 3 posts seemed weird" is also a really inconsequential comment.

I also support Janus that GrandpaMo can be town for now. Beside the slightly unusual foreshadowing of a claim at the end of the day, I think it looks like GrandpaMo is interacting with the game more than is required of them.

More tomorrow.

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Porkens is clear town for me and has been used as the thread's punching bag today far too much for him to be scum.

I get major bad vibes from Titus and see her as an imaginality partner because of the defence that was based on imaginality being limbait generally, and therefore an easy way to avoid talking about imaginality's play this game. Pre-flips yadda yadda but that's what I think.

-Mr. Glance

I like this even if I only agree with half of it.
(I'm alive now, readslist coming later tonight)

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

@mod

- Morning Tweet, Menalque, imaginality, and narrow parking need prods.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

What does that acronym mean?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Maybe they can sense I'm about to call them lurkscum?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

The readslist:

biancospino

Nothing’s changed. I will clarify some things though:
- @Menalque - the tone difference isn’t something I got to by analyzing specific posts. It’s the general feel of his ISO here vs. in Micro 1068. If you still want me to give specific examples, I can, but that isn’t how I actually got to the read.
- I would probably be reading bianco’s tone here as town regardless, but the meta does strengthen the read.

BloodB0t

This slot was absolutely screaming newbtown the first time I read their exchange with Grandpa, but I forgot why and I’m too tired to ISO them again. Will re-evaluate later but for now I’m just going to trust past me.

GrandpaMo

I don’t see the use in fully evaluating this slot until after the promised role reveal, but their ISO feels towny enough.

Morning Tweet

Hasn’t posted in a while, but the stuff she has posted is towny. For example, the take on Porkens in 166 is more nuanced than I’d expect to see from scum.

Porkens

243 giving townpings, interested to see the readslist.

Defective Agency

ASDFGHJKL I CAN'T READ YOU FURTIVE but I kind of like 410 and 420.
Nothing to say about Nancy because she hasn’t been around much.

imaginality

Dead null. I can’t get a read here, probably going to defer to my hydra partners on this one.

Titus

If imaginality is mafia, then I agree that Titus looks bad. However, I don’t find her scummy otherwise and I’m not going to push her for associatives with a slot I don’t even have a read on.

narrow parking

Is doing the kind of lurking that I have seen scum do more than once.

KittyTacky

127, I explained, 219 and 225 felt disingenuous, and they’ve done nothing towny imo.

Menalque, Doctor Drew

Pending further evaluation. I have been working on this readslist for way too long and my eyes are glazing over.


I want to yeet Kitty but I'll see what Morta and Janus want to do with our vote.

[Dei Ex Machina]

If people have questions, I may have to answer them tomorrow because I'm getting pretty tired.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I don’t see the use in fully evaluating this slot until after the promised role reveal, but their ISO feels towny enough.

this is an eh statement.....

I guess I understand why, but I stand by that statement. I'm assuming you're not vanilla, so your role reveal is probably going to have an impact on how I read you. If it's confirmable or strongly AI, then I don't see why I'd want to put work into analyzing your slot until then. If it's not, then I can go back and re-evaluate. I'm not trying to have the whole game solved today.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

How was I supposed to read it?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

How was I supposed to read it?

- Nyx

exactly how someone else read it. keep in the back of your mind. once I do it, you will get it. if I don't do it, call me out on it. just don't make it into a big deal thats all

I don't feel like I'm making it into a big deal, but alright.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I think GM is just bad at arguing fairly, not sure what to read from that point, could just be part of his personality.

It's probably just his playstyle.
Though, I've only played with him like once (from memory) and he seemed to be the sort who is really confident in his reads.
~Janus

[Dei Ex Machina]

[...]

KittyTacky

127, I explained, 219 and 225 felt disingenuous, and they’ve done nothing towny imo.
[...]
I want to yeet Kitty but I'll see what Morta and Janus want to do with our vote.

I support putting our vote here (though I am not going to speak in terms of "wanting to yeet" anyone at this point). 219 and 255 did feel a bit disingenuous, and when I asked KittyTacky for elaboration I didn't feel that the answer wasn't very towny either.

VOTE: KittyTacky

@Kitty - let's talk. Any reads? What are your thoughts on this discussion:

Spoiler:

Speak of the devil ( )

Porkens is basically RPing only more extremely bc he’s not thinking about the game he’s just parroting what the bot says to him

I'm not sure that it's true, it's quite plausible that he's trying to get the bot to say what he means it to by manipulating the prompt. In which case the bot would say things in line with Porkens' opinions.

Of course that's why I want Porkens to also post the prompts he's using, instead of just the bot's response

imo if he was doing this in good faith he's have included the prompts in the first place.

The choice to include / not include the prompts seems pretty arbitrary? What makes you think so?
-Morta

ChatGPT can be manipulated into dispensing certain takes with correct prompting. This doesn't just apply to Mafia, my hobby is convincing it to give e.g illegal advice (for entertainment purposes ofc).

Note that with the correct responses, a prompt can be spliced in to essentially fake ChatGPT's opinion.

Sounds to me like you're saying that Porkens could be trying to "pass off" ChatGPT as an actually competent AI, trying to present its opinion as the "correct" opinion. Is that right?
-Morta

Yeah, or make it say an opinion with one prompt and say they used another prompt. Or doctor the output.

given the other players' reactions to the discussion? Do you think anyone was replying to you in bad faith?

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

[...]

KT has mostly talked about chatcpg&porkens all game. Do you think it could possibly be theater? I think not, he latched on it for longer than due but relenting a bit after Porkens stopped their schtick made it not seem coordinated

Ehh. I think you're right that KT talking about ChatGPT and Porkens most of the game means KT and Porkens are a bit less likely to be aligned. I think you have your reasoning a bit backwards though; if anything makes KT and Porkens

more

likely to be aligned, it is the fact that KT eventually dropped the suspicion - I think scum at times do this thing where they look for opportunities to sus their partners for cheap without actually damaging them too much.

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

This doesn't seem like scum Drew either ngl.

so far...

Would love to know what was going through your mind here, lmao
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

I find it a bit underwhelming that the best wagon we have is a Porkens. I think he's >rand town. He is just pretty different from that scum game of his Defective Agency linked: viewtopic.php?t=89965.

Can we wagon someone else? May I offer up a Tacky Kitty instead?
Or this would also be fun - first person to propose a viable counterwagon that I like wins my favour and a funny gif. And as a roman goddess of death, I assure you you do want my favour~

-Morta

P-edit: speak of the devil! of course, darling. now that you've said that really assuages all my doubt

[Dei Ex Machina]

I mean, Titus.

...what does this refer to?

[Dei Ex Machina]

I am all ears, Mr Oink.
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Hey imag!
What are your reads at rn?
~Janus

Town leans:
Doctor Drew, Dei Ex Machina, Bloodb0t
Menalque
Porkens

Neutral/mixed reads:
biancospino, Morning Tweet

Need more info:
GrandpaMo
Everyone really (no one has done anything super obvscum or obvtown yet)

Scum leans:
narrow parking
KittyTacky
Titus
Defective Agency

Is this still accurate? Can you see how your scumread on us looks reactive?

Tbh, unless he is jedi mind tricking me, he seems a bit similar to how I play sometimes as town.

Like when someone puts a case on you for bullshit reasons you tend to OMGUS a bit(not saying your reasons are bullshit per se, but from their perspective).

I echo this / think this is a good point
A basic point, but a good point still

Semi-related, could you pick a townread you haven't explained yet and explain it, Mr Glance?

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

I can't give you Morta's favour or a funny GIF, and she said she's going to bed so neither can she, but I'll hop on board your wagon.

VOTE: narrow parking

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I mean, Titus.

...what does this refer to?

You just said you wanted a good counter wagon...

Omg just popping in to say you're right, I completely misread sorry

I don't really know how to read Titus, she always just posts one line messages, and, I get the impression, can also come across as kinda agenda-y as town which kinda messes with my system
But I'll take a look tomorrow

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Janus hasn't weighed in yet, but at the moment our PoE is looking something like this:
{KittyTacky, narrow parking, imaginality, Titus, Menalque, BloodB0t*}

*I don't support this, but Morta insisted I consider it.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

This doesn't seem like scum Drew either ngl.

so far...

Ugh. I can't see why people don't see Drew Porkens.

Can you explain why those two together?
~Janus

[Dei Ex Machina]

do u think scum is in the low poster or high poster sheme

i thought they are a low poster group especially considering the game has not being moved naturally. it has to be forced multiple times from people hedging at different times.

i feel like this game is a little unfair due to the amount of hydras because i feel like no one has called them out frfr and thats because their contribution comes from different people and therefor they could easily just take control of the game since of much influence. but its ok because i see the town alligned mindset where they could be helping town.

but there is always that probablity and tbh im not gonna really focus on u yall until later . ur a slot that gets naturally solved once the natural progressions of a mafia game occur. if u are to be mafia then you picking on lowhanging fruit and low posters would be obvious as a strat especially considering they flip as town.

so tldr; we can focus on the ones that havent contributed and are scummy in terms of context. then focus on the mid-high posters who have contributed to at least what titus have contributed imo

Agreed on this. Partially because gamestate and partially because I scumread Kitty and NP.

Who's the "you" in this post?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

@narrow parking
My case on you isn't that you aren't scumhunting at all, but that you're really only doing enough to not get prodded.
It's so easy to just pop in and make posts like 176, 214, 253, 434 to look like you're doing something. Anybody can do that. There's very little effort there to actually sort people. I don't know how 437 is an attempt at scumhunting. 463 is longer and does involve more effort, but it's really just interpreting a post without actually concluding much about GM's alignment (someone tell me if I'm misunderstanding that post though).
I'm not exactly experienced, but every time I've seen this type of play, it's been from scum.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Yelp
UNVOTE: narrow parking
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Thank you, I was just about to do that myself.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

@narrow parking
My case on you isn't that you aren't scumhunting at all, but that you're really only doing enough to not get prodded.
It's so easy to just pop in and make posts like 176, 214, 253, 434 to look like you're doing something. Anybody can do that. There's very little effort there to actually sort people. I don't know how 437 is an attempt at scumhunting. 463 is longer and does involve more effort, but it's really just interpreting a post without actually concluding much about GM's alignment (someone tell me if I'm misunderstanding that post though).
I'm not exactly experienced, but every time I've seen this type of play, it's been from scum.

- Nyx

NYX CONVINCE UR BUDDY PLSS THIS NEEDS TO FLIP ITS TOO LATE

I agree this needs to flip, just need a minute.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Sorry about that but I thought taking some time to consider this seemed like the right thing to do
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

I just don't want to create DoP 2.0.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

That wasn't how I interpreted it. I think my recent post explains why I think you're lurkscum though.
If anyone wants links for where I've seen this before, I'm happy to provide some.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

@narrow parking
My case on you isn't that you aren't scumhunting at all, but that you're really only doing enough to not get prodded.
It's so easy to just pop in and make posts like 176, 214, 253, 434 to look like you're doing something. Anybody can do that. There's very little effort there to actually sort people. I don't know how 437 is an attempt at scumhunting. 463 is longer and does involve more effort, but it's really just interpreting a post without actually concluding much about GM's alignment (someone tell me if I'm misunderstanding that post though).
I'm not exactly experienced, but every time I've seen this type of play, it's been from scum.

- Nyx

NYX CONVINCE UR BUDDY PLSS THIS NEEDS TO FLIP ITS TOO LATE

I agree this needs to flip, just need a minute.

- Nyx

ok u need to trust me . im like999% confident

pedit: what is that??

I was kind of talking to Aisa there, but DoP is a game where I made a jester of myself, got hardpushed by Andante (and everyone else lol) in much the same manner that you're pushing NP now, and self-hammered as town 24 hours into D1. This situation is kind of reminding me of that, and it's giving me a slight existential crisis. Idk. Like, all the evidence points towards scum!NP but I have this (probably irrational) paranoia about the whole thing.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

pedit: is that a bet? @bloodbot vote rn u wont :p

hammer me then
VOTE: narrow parking

but those posts arent really scumhunting. like u ask the questions but u never follow up. or u make the reads but u never explain them . like why havent u push anyone yet if u are scumhunting? why havent u said oh this person and this person is scum im pushing them or im voting them? do u even have anyone as a townread and explained them? whats ur readlist "bro"

its just not my style mane

i don't think anything u just posted is town indicative, in fact spamming superfluous questions until someones E-1 and then declaring to have sorted them seems more to me like scum info play to me.

and im not posting a readlist

bruh unvote rn

RIGHT NOW. GRANDDADDY MO SAYS TO UNVOTE!!

This will 100% flip scum by the way, so whoever wants town cred I believe you should move forward right away!

Why did you say these two things a short amount of time apart from each other?
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

What's the hurry? For my part I promise that I won't stop considering if I want to flip np, and I promise I won't fall into the defeatist trap of being like "oh lol I unvoted guess I can't put my vote back on"
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Lemme see what Nyx says
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

What, specifically, is that info? You can't just say you have incriminating info and expect people to blindly sheep you.
Also, I'd like to see a claim from NP.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Ooooooo, pagetop!

[Dei Ex Machina]

I agree that NP is scum and I would like to execute them today, however I'd like them to claim and you to explain yourself before the hammer.
I mean, you've claimed VT and then claimed that your role gives you info that suggests NP is scum. That makes zero sense.
And if you're dying tonight, you can surely just explain now? If we'll all know after the flips, there's no reason to hide that information now.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Where did they soft PR?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

@NP, if you're here, please clarify if you're willing to claim now or not, and if you're PR,

say something

.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I agree that NP is scum and I would like to execute them today, however I'd like them to claim and you to explain yourself before the hammer.
I mean, you've claimed VT and then claimed that your role gives you info that suggests NP is scum. That makes zero sense.
And if you're dying tonight, you can surely just explain now? If we'll all know after the flips, there's no reason to hide that information now.

- Nyx

they are scum nyx. if they were town pr, they would have claimed something by now -- they would have made it known to not vote them. they softed and once i told them to claim they responded to everything else besides for the claim.

also look at my previous posts, you would know i was just bsing. i already rred.

just pleaseeeeeeee trust me. if whatever reason it flips town, feel free to kill me tmr ok? like pls.

just trust, im tired of the game stalling, and im 100% sure thsi will flip scum. and if 6 other people thought so too, idk why we are waiting after we have been waiting for almost 2 weeks now.

I think I've made it plenty clear I'm not going to just trust you on it, so why keep repeating the same logic?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

@GM
The thing holding me back right now is that you're refusing to explain the claim you made in 595. You have stated that you have information on the person being wagoned and it's going to make sense when you presumably die tonight, so I don't understand why I should just hammer without knowing what that information is. I'm uncomfortable with hammering because you said so.

P-edit: Oh, look, now you're resorting to AtE.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

If you can give a clear explanation of posts 595 and 613, I will declare intent.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Just to say that I endorse all the questions Nyx has been asking, too.
And Grandpa, is there a chance of you saying whatever you want to say plainly? No "I might have information np is scum", just whether you have this information or not, and whether it's mod confirmed information.

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

If you can give a clear explanation of posts 595 and 613, I will declare intent.

- Nyx

I have to take this back. Sorry Morta, didn't see that you told me not to in hydra chat.
Might re-make this offer later, have to check with Morta though.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Ok I was just launching into a ramble about how these two statements literally contradict themselves

Spoiler:

@narrow parking
My case on you isn't that you aren't scumhunting at all, but that you're really only doing enough to not get prodded.
It's so easy to just pop in and make posts like 176, 214, 253, 434 to look like you're doing something. Anybody can do that. There's very little effort there to actually sort people. I don't know how 437 is an attempt at scumhunting. 463 is longer and does involve more effort, but it's really just interpreting a post without actually concluding much about GM's alignment (someone tell me if I'm misunderstanding that post though).
I'm not exactly experienced, but every time I've seen this type of play, it's been from scum.

- Nyx

NYX CONVINCE UR BUDDY PLSS THIS NEEDS TO FLIP ITS TOO LATE

I agree this needs to flip, just need a minute.

- Nyx

ok u need to trust me . im like999% confident

pedit: what is that??

i have info from my role that np is scum lol

ok i might be bsing that (maybe who knows)

but no literally like lets get the game moving, we all literally have been going throuhg different wagons and no one has been ever confident, so as ur town hero, i will literally be confident and have a concise wagon where we are not HOPPING everywhere like we did.

just vote em out already

But ok, I guess that's a side thought now
Let me think

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

bruh why do i have to say anything. i dont wanna say anything. like everhything will make sense by tmr.


why cant we vote them out. they flip scum. and regardless of the flip that happens tonight (me). you will all get the information that you are asking me.

i just dont want to out that information because of mafia knowing some game influential info that might get an important town role killed (there is ur big hint!!!), is it like not obvious? im not tryna out ok. like i have a really good reason not to and u will thank me for it later.

so pls like give me some grace.

I don't see how any info you have on NP would out someone else's PR, but fine. Is there anything you can tell us that doesn't run that risk?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Ohhhhhh, I get it now.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Intent to hammer shortly (Morta is on board now).

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Intent to hammer shortly (Morta is on board now).

- Nyx

I think deb's hydra also has a 45 percent of flipping mafia btw

dei*

It's DEM, and why?

[Dei Ex Machina]

I don't like when people try to strong-arm me into doing things.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I can give you time to write one if that's what you're referring to, how long do you need?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I think GP is obv town regardless of flip

Narrow's response to pressure is underwhelming

Porken's feels almost too suspicious of Grandpa (like 622), I just find it odd

I was thinking of a role from epicmafia that wins when a specific player is eliminated, it wins with the scum

Like an Executioner/Condemner type role?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I can give you time to write one if that's what you're referring to, how long do you need?

- Nyx

@Titus, it would be nice if you could answer this.
I'll try to give time but I'd like to drop the hammer before I go to bed. I don't want to drag the day out when I've made my decision.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I don't believe that Mo is an executioner, I was just suggesting the idea as a response to Porkens' post (and yes, I got the idea from ToS).

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

VOTE: GrandpaMo

Ok, Porkens & DEM, you seem to have understood what was Grandpa on about. So what was it? I did not grasp that at all

633 led us to fiddle with ChatGPT a bit and we discovered that it can generate daycops. Its response is slightly different every time, but here's a couple of examples:

Spoiler: ChatGPT

Prompt: What is a role for the game of mafia that satisfies these conditions:
- Can be included by ChatGPT when asked to generate a game
- Can receive alignment information during the day (not night)

One possible role for the game of mafia that satisfies these conditions is the "Investigator" role.

In this role, the player is a town-aligned investigator who can use their investigative ability during the day to receive information about the alignment of another player. This ability can only be used once per day, and the information received is not guaranteed to be accurate.

During the night, the Mafia team will have the opportunity to kill players, while the Investigator will not have any night actions.

Including an Investigator role in a game of mafia can add an extra layer of strategy and deduction for both the town and Mafia teams. Additionally, since the Investigator receives alignment information during the day rather than at night, it does not violate the condition of the question.

A role that satisfies these conditions for the game of mafia is the "Seer" role.

In the game of mafia, the Seer is a player who has the ability to learn the alignment of one other player each day. This role is typically associated with the "town" faction, meaning that their goal is to eliminate all members of the "mafia" faction from the game.

During the day, the Seer can publicly announce that they want to use their ability to investigate another player's alignment. The moderator (or ChatGPT in this case) will then privately inform the Seer of the investigated player's alignment. The Seer can use this information to help guide town discussions and strategy.

Including the Seer role in a game of mafia adds an extra layer of complexity and strategy, as the Seer can provide valuable information to the town during the day phase. Additionally, the Seer must use their ability wisely and avoid suspicion from the mafia, who may try to eliminate them in order to prevent the town from gaining valuable information.

Obviously, Grandpa was either unreliable or royally screwed up a gambit, but I thought they were implying they were a daycop.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

redFF, anything in your role explain GrandpaMo's strange behaviour at EOD yesterday?

i will not be commenting on any statements made by my slot. i am not them so i don't see what i can explain.

Your slot softed a guilty on a town member, I think that warrants some explaining.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

@dei, I know I'm very late with this, but let me run through what I liked about Nyx's early game

I scumread Nyx.
-Morta

I townread her. Now, please accept this OMGUS vote as a token of my heartfelt appreciation.

VOTE: Dei Ex Machina

- Nyx

this tone is v lighthearted and I generally like that unless it's from someone who I think has 0 issues replicating tone as scum --this is partly why I asked if anyone knew if her scumgame was stronk

I've never been scum, so that's why nobody answered.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

trust me. i am pushing because of something else. yes i just gave u hint. now just hurry and voteeee

What's the hurry? For my part I promise that I won't stop considering if I want to flip np, and I promise I won't fall into the defeatist trap of being like "oh lol I unvoted guess I can't put my vote back on"
-Morta

do u rlly wanna know? i have info from my role that np is scum lol

ima just give that much information. the game has literally been stale for the past week. this is the only action it will get, so if ur town i recommend for u to vote so we can get a flip, move the game. because i have already gamesolved.

bruh why do i have to say anything. i dont wanna say anything. like everhything will make sense by tmr.


why cant we vote them out. they flip scum. and regardless of the flip that happens tonight (me). you will all get the information that you are asking me.

i just dont want to out that information because of mafia knowing some game influential info that might get an important town role killed (there is ur big hint!!!), is it like not obvious? im not tryna out ok. like i have a really good reason not to and u will thank me for it later.

so pls like give me some grace.

Can you point out the two posts between which you got this info?

so i will tell u that i got the info from either 525, 526, 527, 554.

im not gonna tell u exactly what post i got the info right after just in case maf is pr hunting

Okay, maybe it was more outright claiming a guilty than softing one, but here you go.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Right. Yeah, I don't know what they were doing then or why they felt a need to claim a guilty. NP was getting executed regardless imo.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

VOTE: Porkens

706 is contradictory in a way that feels fake to me. I'd explain more, but redFF already did.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Nyx, current read on Titus, seeing that you didn't go for that wagon?

I forgot about Titus in the midst of the whole fake guilty fiasco.
She was null-maybe-scum yesterday, but on a re-read, she'd probably be

this colour

if I did another readslist. I don't find the case on her compelling as most of it is based on preflip associatives and games I didn't play in. I get the scummy vibes, but I feel like there'd also be more opposition to executing her if she were mafia. Not a single person has townread her all game. It's like the thread just decided "Titus sus amogus" and the scum have no reason not to go along with it.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Hey guys. Many thanks to the Serial Killer.

VOTE: Titus

Is it just me or does this sound somewhat self-congratulatory?
Also, note how furtive immediately assumes Tweetie was killed by SK not Vig or PGO.
Yes, SK could be the 3p but why does furtive not ponder 'what if sk shot bloodbot'?
~Janus

[Dei Ex Machina]

Hey guys. Many thanks to the Serial Killer.

VOTE: Titus

Is it just me or does this sound somewhat self-congratulatory?
Also, note how furtive immediately assumes Tweetie was killed by SK not Vig or PGO.
Yes, SK could be the 3p but why does furtive not ponder 'what if sk shot bloodbot'?
~Janus

Agree with the first two points, but if SK shot BloodB0t, it means that the maf shot themselves or the maf kill is missing. If the maf kill is missing, it means there's the possibility for 3 deaths in one night, which is...a little overkill. So BloodB0t being the maf kill is a logical assumption.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Nyx, current read on Titus, seeing that you didn't go for that wagon?

I forgot about Titus in the midst of the whole fake guilty fiasco.
She was null-maybe-scum yesterday, but on a re-read, she'd probably be

this colour

if I did another readslist. I don't find the case on her compelling as most of it is based on preflip associatives and games I didn't play in. I get the scummy vibes, but I feel like there'd also be more opposition to executing her if she were mafia. Not a single person has townread her all game. It's like the thread just decided "Titus sus amogus" and the scum have no reason not to go along with it.

- Nyx

Maybe I am misremembering, I thought I was the only person really wanting to elim Titus. I don't remember a big groundswell of support for it.

I wasn't arguing that there was a huge groundswell of support for it, or that she was universally scumread. DA, BloodB0t, imaginality all voted her though iirc, and Porkens' 345 looked like an accusation. I could have misread things though.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I don't especially like how GrandpaMo was "at the end of today I'm gonna tell you stuff that town NEED to know" and then more recently "oh it's nothing important not a big deal" but I don't think there's any value in pressing on it now.


Re. my Titus read I feel like she might be soft defending me maybe partly to get me on side and also to set up a "told you so, listen to me instead of going for easy wagons" to have more sway on future days when I flip town if I get limmed.

She feels different this game to the last I was in with her (where she was town) but that could be due to various factors (our roles that game, the fact she was sparring with Mathblade in particular, out of game stuff) so I don't place enough weight on the difference to make a meta case. It just feels less reassuring than it would if she felt the same tonewise.

Fairish. I am at idgaf. Let's go after scummy people.

narrow parking exists

-Mr. Glance

Convince me he's possible partnered with Drew. I don't see it based on recent posting unless the "not yet" post is a post meant for a PT which is stretch even if they are partners.

VOTE: Narrow Parking

Really, you hammered while I was doing my readwall? Are you trying to get me to tunnel you?

These posts give me TMI vibes

I don't see it. What in these posts suggests that Titus is informed?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

That's interesting and also makes me think you aren't mafia.
I'm going to think on that.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Don't celebrate too soon; cereal killer is still on the table.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Yeah, but SK doesn't want to be confirmed because they just get shot at night. Unless they're bulletproof or banking on a protective, I guess.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Sorry, narrow parking!

[...]
Semi-related, could you pick a townread you haven't explained yet and explain it, Mr Glance?

-Morta

You know I prefer to talk scumreads. Speaking of, let's see if we can wagon...

VOTE: narrow parking

-Mr. Glance

So much furtrivia, so little time
(Yes, I've totally been sitting on this pun for 3 days)

Naturally talking mostly scumreads is one thing, but here you're just mostly sidestepping the question. Was there anything that made you wanna do that?

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

KittyTacky agreeing with me is making me rethink a little.

Wrong account.
Like, did scum!Kitty see me townleaning scum! Titus and figure it might be safe for them to do the same?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I think we're all waiting for some Titus content yeah

Agreed.
My hydra partners may not agree but I'm comfortable taking Titus out of the limpool.
~Janus

[Dei Ex Machina]

Possibly very dumb question, but
how common is it for an SK to signal to scum? I guess it could also be some other kind of strange third party like someone who has to get a specific person dead or eliminated. Just wondering if that's what GrandpaMo's posting yesterday could have meant, I still don't completely understand their motivations. I'm not sure why you would imply so strongly that someone is scum when they... aren't. I see a nonzero chance of this slot being a jester, though if it I guess Grandpa overestimated what seems like our willingness to yeet them today lol

I do agree otherwise the slot doesn't really seem to be scum motivated

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

@Titus, when you get here, do you still scumread Porkens and if so, why?

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

UNVOTE:

What it is you want me to

vote: Titus

?

I'm not convinced, but I'm going with the flow.[...]

Why?

[Dei Ex Machina]

UNVOTE: Porkens
I feel like if I squint maybe the contradiction is slightly scummy, but that isn't really enough to offset the rest of the posting, which seems towny to me. I'll have a think about where else we could vote.

@redFF, how is catching up on the game going?

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

I think we're all waiting for some Titus content yeah

Agreed.
My hydra partners may not agree but I'm comfortable taking Titus out of the limpool.
~Janus

What, why?

I meant

not comfortable

.
I haven't been sleeping well and I swear I wrote not this morning.
But yeah, I think that Titus is a good lim.
~Janus

Wrong account.
Oops.

[Dei Ex Machina]

Ehh am also kinda sitting on my own case of Titus-hesitation, but seeing her posting would be helpful.

It is a bit worrying to me that the case for her being scum isn't really there. The best I can see is Drew suspects her for missing a joke and furtive quoted two posts which sound TMI ish. This is just... not a lot. One could also quibble e.g. with exactly how TMIish the posts furtive referenced are.

Spoiler: Reference to the reference

I don't especially like how GrandpaMo was "at the end of today I'm gonna tell you stuff that town NEED to know" and then more recently "oh it's nothing important not a big deal" but I don't think there's any value in pressing on it now.


Re. my Titus read I feel like she might be soft defending me maybe partly to get me on side and also to set up a "told you so, listen to me instead of going for easy wagons" to have more sway on future days when I flip town if I get limmed.

She feels different this game to the last I was in with her (where she was town) but that could be due to various factors (our roles that game, the fact she was sparring with Mathblade in particular, out of game stuff) so I don't place enough weight on the difference to make a meta case. It just feels less reassuring than it would if she felt the same tonewise.

Fairish. I am at idgaf. Let's go after scummy people.

narrow parking exists

-Mr. Glance

Convince me he's possible partnered with Drew. I don't see it based on recent posting unless the "not yet" post is a post meant for a PT which is stretch even if they are partners.

VOTE: Narrow Parking

Really, you hammered while I was doing my readwall? Are you trying to get me to tunnel you?

These posts give me TMI vibes

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

UNVOTE:

What it is you want me to

vote: Titus

?

I'm not convinced, but I'm going with the flow.[...]

Why?

Still looking for an answer to this.

@redFF, how is catching up on the game going?

uhhh

let us know if we can help

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

OK, I'll take a look again tomorrow.

I would also really prefer not a Titus hammer anytime soon, to be perfectly clear. I am once more offering up a KittyTacky counterwagon, which I think Nyx will like too.

VOTE: KittyTacky

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Spoiler: MT

UNVOTE:

the imagineality case by defective doesnt excite me. the 4 bullet point one, you know the one

Ppl suspect imagine but there's not much being laid out, anyone care to enlighten

morning I have a very important question for you when you get back here next but you have to promise not to be mad at me for asking you

Mmm what could it be

Spoiler: grandpa quote

UNVOTE:

the imagineality case by defective doesnt excite me. the 4 bullet point one, you know the one

Ppl suspect imagine but there's not much being laid out, anyone care to enlighten

morning I have a very important question for you when you get back here next but you have to promise not to be mad at me for asking you

Mmm what could it be

ding ding ding! you hit the hammer right on the nail. Why do you think I wasn't so straight forward on imagine? Bloodbot and Prokens were so adament on me checking the person who was on "e2" and take a look on them.

There is nothing being laid out.

Well I agree with you there. The imaginality wagon felt arbitrary

Spare me. My posts were a lightning rod that generated the majority of content in this game so far. You are just nipping at my heels as a pet wagon while ignoring the e-2 situation completely.

Hahahahaha i love this post

Spoiler: Mo on imagine

haha ok i see where the imaigne wagon came from it came from defective agency pushing a certain adgenda and bianco voting

doctor drew just "sheeped the hydras"

and then menalque ur the fourth vote, why? you also ask a question in 204 -- what is the implied presumption?

while reading thru the game, i did not like bloodbot at all. but their posting in 210,212,and vote on 213, makes ithard. however i do not like 212 reason. menaluqe could had just been asking to ask, i do this all the time to find someone else that i perceieve as town to have reassurance.

imaginality looks like they are omgussing in a sense?

@dei ex u become the 5th vote. and u vote them because voting Kt is doing nothing. ok lol . i feel like all ur reads have been sheeps so far. especially the vote on me rn

I'm moving this as voting KT isn't really doing anything in the immediate, I assume KT will play whenever they'll play and maybe then there'll be a bit more to discuss. Mind you, Janus said they thought Imaginality didn't look too different from the previous game they were in, where they were Town, so I may have to change this again in <24 hours, but hopefully it'll do for now!

like rlly? especially when u made this quote earlier

Kitty? Towny? He hasn't said anything new, his only reads were basically parroting thread consensus.
I need to look more into imaginality but for now I'm actually going to VOTE: KittyTacky.

nd u talk about me having this type of posting style LOL

Porkens response to accusations is scummy but I'm not gonna rehash what Titus said.

this from kitty seems to programmed imo

this puts porkens ( i think this is a 3rd party role), kitty, bloodbot, and dei in the bottom 4

with bloodbot being a definite scumlean

there has been nothing useful thru out this entire game funny enough which makes me think mafia is probably in the low post counts

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bloodb0t

ill have my vote on u now

I like Grandpas analysis of the imagine wagon (and I agree to the point that imagine wasn't a slot that demanded attention, and moreso, was just being given that attention by some players who then tried to pressure everyone else into thinking the same way)

Also when Grrandpa is giving self meta 321 (not to bloodb0t, but to DEI), his reaction comes across genuine to me

I think this spews GrandpaMo and imaginality town.

Town:
DEM, redFF, Dr Drew, imaginality, Porkens

That leaves:
[Titus, bianco, KT, Menalque]
as a POE.

Anything else cause the flip on Imaginality beside that MT post you quoted?

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Ok, let's take a look at this Titus reaction to being pushed...

Spoiler: (nested spoilers!)

Spoiler: 1

@BloodB0t, the way that chess game shows pieces in the wrong places is like some demonic incestuous offspring of chess, checkers and time travel. If the intent is to gain advantage by making everyone else's heads ache then job done!

@

Drew not sure I'd go as far as policy limming a hydra

, but I do like the idea of putting hydras under pressure early as I always find them hard to read.

VOTE: Defective Agency

Positioning himself as reasonable

Spoiler: 2

My vote on the hydra was rvs in that I didn't have any reason to vote them based on play (it was page 1!) but motivated in that I dislike playing with hydras. I just find them hard to read (also because I generally don't know the meta of the players in them) plus some of them post too much.

So I figure seeing how they react to a wagon on them could help with reading them plus given the choice between catching a scum solo player and a scum hydra I'd rather the latter.

Never heard of Doctor Drew or the running joke.

I don't see posting chatGPT answers as copying Porkens' gimmick in this particular game (if Porkens does that in other games then it would be if someone does it there).

I am also staggered Defective Agency thought I was being serious with that chatGPT post or in general (until now).

I have a hard time believing they genuinely believed that. My vote stays.

Incredibly safe position to take as scum with the omgus. We're already opposing him, so he just accepts and cements that.

Spoiler: 3

The subplot where on one side, ChatGPT/Porkens says its suspicious for players to cast doubt on ChatGPT -- and on the other, bloodb0t finds Porkens suspicious for practically assimilatign with the AI, seems notable. I don't like bloodbot's repeated insistence against ChatGPT which feels ultimatley like a distraction to me. Like it mostly goes without saying that ChatGPT isn't exactly sherlock holms yet bloodb0t seems to feel the need to discredit it anyway. Poor learning model

On that front, some musings:

Do you think 96 is a direct neutral chatGPT output or is it
Porkens' own content in chatGPT style (perhaps rephrased by chatGPT), or chatGPT told to argue a specific view?

If it's the latter:

Do you think continuing to mix chatGPT and their own content (if Porkens were to continue to do so) is scummy, towny or NAI?

Bonus thought: compare and contrast playing using chatGPT as support (either for private discussion or for content generation) with playing in a hydra


Not really directed at anyone, just musing.

You could have these thoughts in an MD thread or pre-game. Much easier content to put out than your thoughts on other players.

Spoiler: 4

How many scums are we thinking because if it's 3 I've already found them all
Maybe not but I've got it down to [Dei Ex Machina, imaginality, narrow parking, Menalque, Porkens]

Should be 3 and one 3p, at least per the queue post.
Also, I somewhat disagree with that list. Are Dei there chiefly just because of their KT vote?

PE: god, that rap was awful

This was already clarified earlier in the thread (119). And Defective Agency has been following the thread, so the "how many scums are we thinking" in the post bianco quoted here seems like a deliberate attempt on DA's part to appear uninformed.

This is an attempt to get us for 'fake townslipping' which is a really superficial and reachy thing to push us for. I hadn't checked the setup or seen anywhere that it was 9/3/1.

So yeah, bit of a scumcase for you Dei Ex Machina.

My vote stays

-Mr. Glance

Not in the mood to wagon imaginality day 1 as that leads to people doing stupid shit

How so?

See last large theme. Too exhausted to explain.

So you can't be bothered to look up someone's meta that was conveniently linked to, but I have to find meta you allude to on my own?

Might have to put this sheep out to pasture.

I'm a) not using meta to explain alignment and b) what I'm saying requires no thought or belief in meta. It's just facts that happened.

How did you go from sheeping me to "putting out to pasture"?

I think I'm more with Titus on her first point: it sounds like she was referencing something that happened in a past game, it doesn't sound like she was making a point about alignment with "not in the mood to wagon Imaginality".

I do agree "How did you go from sheeping me to "putting out to pasture"?" is a slight stretch of rhetoric, as Drew only ever referred to sheeping Titus jokingly. I can personally see both scum and town motivation for this.

Spoiler:

You vaguely say the Imaginalty wagon will lead to people doing stupid shit.

You don't say it because you believe they are town, but also don't offer up even a tiny bit of explanation to hate the wagon besides 'hey go look over there or something'.

And then when I have an an issue with this double standard, you redirect the heat to me?

I didn't vaguely said it. I outright said it. That is explanation. I know he gets picked on as town. Does that make him town? No. So I didn't say that. I just don't give a shit for easy.

There is no double standard. One is a comparison of meta. The other is fact.

More of the above, I guess this seems like a place where one's judgment of whether Titus is in fact enforcing a double standard would colour one's opinion of the interaction. Like, totally possible Drew is right, but overall I still feel pretty neutral about this

Spoiler:

You also did a 180 which is frankly odd and telling.

Maybe Drew + Porkens.

Well well well... what do we have here? In a shocking twist of events, more of the same

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

butt its pretty fucking tight.

I love a tight pork butt.

What are we doing here? Titus isn't posting shit it seems.

Do we hope they are replaced and go from there, lim her slot, or what?

Assuming you're town here - this situation is absolutely temporary! She will either post or get replaced.

If the nation wants to lim Titus that's fine, but if you wanna take advantage of the epochs that are still left before deadline, that is very much possible. My preference is to wait. I think there's plenty we can cover while waiting for Titus.

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

I'm hungry for a hamma

Such as this. I think I'm curious why you don't seem more curious about other slots...?

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

I don't especially like how GrandpaMo was "at the end of today I'm gonna tell you stuff that town NEED to know" and then more recently "oh it's nothing important not a big deal" but I don't think there's any value in pressing on it now.


Re. my Titus read I feel like she might be soft defending me maybe partly to get me on side and also to set up a "told you so, listen to me instead of going for easy wagons" to have more sway on future days when I flip town if I get limmed.

She feels different this game to the last I was in with her (where she was town) but that could be due to various factors (our roles that game, the fact she was sparring with Mathblade in particular, out of game stuff) so I don't place enough weight on the difference to make a meta case. It just feels less reassuring than it would if she felt the same tonewise.

Fairish. I am at idgaf. Let's go after scummy people.

narrow parking exists

-Mr. Glance

Convince me he's possible partnered with Drew. I don't see it based on recent posting unless the "not yet" post is a post meant for a PT which is stretch even if they are partners.

VOTE: Narrow Parking

Really, you hammered while I was doing my readwall? Are you trying to get me to tunnel you?

These posts give me TMI vibes

I thought about these a little more. It's possible Titus knew NP would flip town, but I don't think these posts are actively suggesting that if you get what I mean? It's equally plausible she just had tunnel vision on Drew.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I was going to add that this post caught my attention, too:

Sorry I had personal issues today that led to me not finding enough time to post.

Who do you scumread at the moment? Looking through your iso I didn't see you give any scumreads since Porkens early D1 and me mid D1. Since then it's just been townreads I think?

Menalque and bianco aren't looking good on a quick re-skim. I specifically don't like the GrandpaMo votes. The replace out indicates that it was town and not scum, and thus the votes are likely opportunistic.

I've had a similar thought about the GrandpaMo votes. Think this is a bit town-indicative because it's a sus on unusual slots. What do people think?

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Titus will be due for a prod shortly. Hopefully she comes back.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I do want to wait for Titus ideally, but if she can't devote time to the game then she should be replaced.

I am a bit impatient waiting for her though, says she will be here and post.....then does nothing, and it appears the game has stalled a bit because of that.

But, I guess I should just forget about her for now, I do need to kick the tires on everyone else.

Still at work, will check in a bit later.

Aww <3. Yeah, it can be pretty frustrating when someone isn't posting. Though I know it can also be frustrating when everyone is sring you because you're not posting but you're just busy. Proof that this game is just a soup of misery, really =P

and yeah, I concur that physically it cannot be long before something happens

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

I was going to add that this post caught my attention, too:

Sorry I had personal issues today that led to me not finding enough time to post.

Who do you scumread at the moment? Looking through your iso I didn't see you give any scumreads since Porkens early D1 and me mid D1. Since then it's just been townreads I think?

Menalque and bianco aren't looking good on a quick re-skim. I specifically don't like the GrandpaMo votes. The replace out indicates that it was town and not scum, and thus the votes are likely opportunistic.

I've had a similar thought about the GrandpaMo votes. Think this is a bit town-indicative because it's a sus on unusual slots. What do people think?

-Morta

I don't think it's unfakeable.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Yes, fairz

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Nyx and Mortar, potentially dumb question, and this does come from a tinfoily place.

But I thought hydras usually have a notes PT they can use to discuss reads and such instead of in thread? I don't want to start whipping around accusations when speaking on something I am unfamiliar with, but the inter-hydra communication in thread seems oddly forced here.

We have a notes PT, but we don't discuss absolutely everything in there before posting to the main thread. That post by Morta was not something she ran by us. I try to minimize the amount of responding to my hydra partners in here, but in that case, it just made more sense to.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Anyway, re: Kitty and Titus, I almost think Kitty might have to be town? Someone tell me if my two braincells are onto something here:
- Kitty is scummy.
- Kitty's read on Titus feels like a partner tell and not something a scum does to a townie.
- Gamestate points to town!Titus.
- Kitty isn't scum.
I guess S/S could still be a thing but it feels kind of unlikely.
Ughhhhh but who even are the mafia if it's not Kitty?
*has existential crisis*

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Pagetop go yeet!

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

It's not enough to flip my read on the slot just yet, but I agree bianco is coasting.
@bianco, you still haven't answered our question. Why did you vote Titus if you weren't convinced she's mafia?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

RIP. Still not convinced this’ll flip red but it’s informative regardless.
If this is mafia, we should turbo-yeet Kitty tomorrow.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Anyway, re: Kitty and Titus, I almost think Kitty might have to be town? Someone tell me if my two braincells are onto something here:
- Kitty is scummy.
- Kitty's read on Titus feels like a partner tell and not something a scum does to a townie.

- Gamestate points to town!Titus

.
- Kitty isn't scum.
I guess S/S could still be a thing but it feels kind of unlikely.
Ughhhhh but who even are the mafia if it's not Kitty?
*has existential crisis*

- Nyx

I disagree with the bolded line. I think {Kitty, Titus} is still pretty plausible.

Yeah I don't get this at all Nyx.

It was the theory I had in 717.

[Dei Ex Machina]

I was dumb to talk myself out of 772.

VOTE: KittyTacky

YEET!

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I disagree with a kittytacky elimination.

Why though?

[Dei Ex Machina]

We still shouldn’t speed lim tho

I like all of (drew/dei ex, imaginality, porkens) for town, in that order

Then kitty is scum

Of who’s left I would say redFF > bianco

I need to re-read EoD1, but I'd say I agree with most of this PoE.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Yes this is a mechanical claim

Sorry, what does that mean?

I'm assuming it's do with Mena's role.

[Dei Ex Machina]

Above was me.
~Janus

[Dei Ex Machina]

Yes this is a mechanical claim

Sorry, what does that mean?

That I’m a PR and it’s pretty much set that kitty is scum unless there’s a v good alternative explanation for us missing a kill last night

I can full claim if needed but don’t necessarily see the need to unless people doubt my claim

Maybe this is a noob take, but I don't see the point in hiding your role now. I'd rather have an explanation.
The rest of town can chime in on that though.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

UNVOTE:

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

@redFF, how is catching up on the game going?

[Dei Ex Machina]

UNVOTE:

- Nyx

Had to think about it for a second.
I despise vague PR claims, but a kill had to go missing somehow, so I suppose I won't press Mena about it too much.

VOTE: KittyTacky

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

If it's the use of "us," I don't think that's a scumslip because if he's maf, he's the last one.
I don't think assuming maf or SK missed a kill is unreasonable either. SK game seems pretty likely here. I guess MT could have been vigged though.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

@Drew, probably because a third party is confirmed to be in this game and SK is one of the most common third parties.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Wait, I need to hear from Kitty.

And more of an explanation from Menal.

I agree with this though.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

dr drew pretending he didn't know there is a 3p

Red pretending he didn't catch up on the game.

You clearly read the setup, so why play dumb about catching up on the game that you subbed into?

I can maybe see red!mafia, still haven't done my re-read, but the logic here isn't very strong. Catching up on the game requires reading the 27 pages before they got here, while reading the setup literally means looking at the four points at the bottom of post 1.

P-edit: Porkens, you need to explain.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I don't really get what's going on with all the claims,
but if my mental logic is right then I think anyone can still be any alignment based on the information we have so far.

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Dei, what are your thoughts on bianco at this point in the game?

You have perfect timing, this is actually a perfect chance for me to braindump

It was a bit of a point of contention when I last spoke to Nyx about it. I suspect the slot a bit but I think she said she still thought the slot looked towny.
It's less of a "liar liar pants on fire" scumminess for me, more of a lack of convincing towntells. The activity pattern of being seemignly more motivated early in the game could fit scum. Was also looking through some stuff in the early game and if you look here there's a lot of content that looks like town solving but is actually ChatGPT talk and could possibly be a bit lamisty: viewtopic.php?p=13652064&f=23&t=90462&u ... #p13652064

I also can't really decide was this progression means

Spoiler:

UNVOTE:

What it is you want me to

vote: Titus

?

I'm not convinced, but I'm going with the flow.

Anyway, MT stopped protecting Porkens after like 8 pages or so iirc, and it wasn't really blatant or anything, in fact some of the arguments against sring the usage of the chat was not dissimilar from my own. It stopped after it was no more convenient to do so since it was no more convenient to keep poking Blood, and the way that was done was intermingled with poking Blood.

It's not enough to flip my read on the slot just yet, but I agree bianco is coasting.
@bianco, you still haven't answered our question. Why did you vote Titus if you weren't convinced she's mafia?

- Nyx

I'm slacking off, yes.

As I evidently stated, I was just voting with the consensus. It's not like I'm TRing the slot either, and in fact currently my gut poe is {Porkens, KT, Titus, Mena} and I understand that there is no interest for a Porkens wagon

"I'm not convinced but I'm going with the flow" caught my attention because I originally thought it could be setting up a Titus mislim (welp ;-;)
Idk maybe it's something both town and scum can have a reason to say, maybe it's more productive to look elsewhere instead of dwelling on what this means

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Imaginality can you talk me through your doubts on why redFF is scum?

Mainly the GrandpaMo fake guilty on narrowparking gambit seemed more like the sort of daft thing town are more likely to do than scum.

I see you’ve never met GrandpaMo before

Anything more you can say about this?
Ik this seems dumb but maybe it would help make the idea of GrandpaMo possibly scum seem more plausible

Okay, that makes sense, sure

Porkens, is your KT clear from last night?

Like I said it’s really mostly gut, but I think I have a very good gut.

Is it gut or are you mechanically certain? Because no offence but I don’t really care about how sure you are based on gut when I have strong mechanical reasons to think that KT is scum or 3rd party scum. If you have a mechanical clear on KT then I need you to tell me yes or no to the question of whether it was from last night?

Massive townping @this, by the way

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Okay, that makes sense, sure

Porkens, is your KT clear from last night?

Like I said it’s really mostly gut, but I think I have a very good gut.

Look I’m 999% confident.

Menal, I know why you are asking and you are just going to have to trust me.

Porkens, your claim is falling apart. First, you said you had a

mechanical clear

, now you're saying "it's mostly gut but I'm confident so just trust me bro." How do you expect anyone to trust you when your entire claim looks like bogus? You have no evidence, no explanation, you can't even decide if you have a clear or not. How anyone has given your claim any credibility is beyond me.
If you are town like I think you are, then I need you to answer these questions in no uncertain terms.

1. Are you mechanically certain that KT is town-aligned, and that it is impossible for him to be mafia or third party?
2. If so, answer Menalque's question. Do you have a mechanical clear on KT that you got last night?

If you're faking a clear, just come clean. It would be anti-town not to. I probably still won't trust you until you've fullclaimed, but I can live with waiting until tomorrow if you commit to having or not having an inno.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Dei, what are your thoughts on bianco at this point in the game?

Leaning town, probably not mafia, third party is a possibility (though I'm not sure how you even hunt 3p).
Mostly because of my D1 read and the progression Morta just said she couldn't figure out. I'd expect mafia to come up with a better reason to vote their buddy than "just following the consensus." I don't think Morta saw where I said that in hydra chat though.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

My vote's not moving then.
@everyone else, do you still trust what seems, at this point, to be nothing more than a dressed-up gutread?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

/in to mod

Game Name:

Open ChatGPT

Flavor/Mechanics:

This is 13 player set-up designed by Open ChatGPT

Game Size:

13

Co/Backup Mod:

None- Happy to have one if anyone expresses interest

Reviewed By:

Open ChatGPT

Setup Link:

Closed

Experience:

Plenty

Current Modding Commitments:

None

Hydra Policy:

Any player can ban Hydras from signing up after them, this will not affect hydras who have already signed up

Other Restrictions?:

None

Deadlines:

10 days/2 days

Prod Timer:

48 hours/24 hours

Is it possible your game has any mechanically bastard roles or mechanics?

No

Is it possible your game has any procedurally bastard dynamics?

No

Mafia rule exception requests:

None

Other:

Set-up is 9-3-1, mafia has daytalk. Set-up was made by Open ChatGPT with prompts by me, roles have been renamed in line with mafiascum nomenclature

I doubt it.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Curious what made you ask that question though.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Claim that prevents us from [...] clearing another PR?
@mod, are you sure this isn't jester?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Anyway, I don't trust Porkens about Kitty, but there is more than one evil in this game and I really don't mind this wagon.

VOTE: redFF

E-1.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Pagetop yeet.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Re. Porkens' role: I don't get how a combined cop disloyal vig is different from just a disloyal vig?
Since with a disloyal vig, either the vig shot kills non-town or proves Porkens' target is town if it fails?

As a plain disloyal vig, you cannot distinguish your target being town from your vig failing because you got roleblocked.
As a combined cop disloyal vig, you get an "innocent" result in the first scenario and "no result" in the second scenario.

But yeah they're very nearly the same thing

@Mod what does lockpicking do?

Like I assume it's got something to do with the Jailkeeper, but does it make the lockpicking player immune to being jailkept, immune to their target being jailkept, or both?

-Morta

P-edt omg biancospino

[Dei Ex Machina]

Yes to massclaim, yes to Kitty picking the order, yes with an asterisk to him picking the lim. I'm not voting Dr. Drew unless there's really good case and I'm not voting myself.
Actually, that just means imaginality and bianco are evil. bianco SK and imaginality...mafia? I guess.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Porkens is clear town for me and has been used as the thread's punching bag today far too much for him to be scum.

I get major bad vibes from Titus and see her as an imaginality partner because of the defence that was based on imaginality being limbait generally, and therefore an easy way to avoid talking about imaginality's play this game. Pre-flips yadda yadda but that's what I think.

-Mr. Glance

I think you might have been right, furtive.

[Dei Ex Machina]

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

We also know who we want to vote. I wonder if it's the same person.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

dr drew pretending he didn't know there is a 3p

Red pretending he didn't catch up on the game.

You clearly read the setup, so why play dumb about catching up on the game that you subbed into?

dr drew pretending he didn't know there is a 3p

Red pretending he didn't catch up on the game.

You clearly read the setup, so why play dumb about catching up on the game that you subbed into?

I can maybe see red!mafia, still haven't done my re-read, but the logic here isn't very strong. Catching up on the game requires reading the 27 pages before they got here, while reading the setup literally means looking at the four points at the bottom of post 1.

P-edit: Porkens, you need to explain.

- Nyx

I rarely read the the specific setup(meaning, it is 9:3:1 as it is here, stuff like that), I read the theme and any special mechanics of the game before I join in, I generally like crazier closed setups with borderline bastard elements, and a setup chosen by chatGPT seemed to fit that.

Yes I then went back and looked at the post you mentioned and saw the set up here after you mentioned it.

Red when asked if that caught up with the game responded with 'uhhh', if you bothered to start with page one and saw the setup, why would you just stop there?

While you're online, Dr. Drew, Morta wants to know what gave you the impression RedFF was reading the game.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

This is a post.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

And this is post 1000 and it's mine!

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Dayvig: Doctor Drew

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I went into the night feeling like there was a decent chance Menalque was scum. Even with Porkens' shenanigans D3.

With Menalque flipping town I think Dei Ex Machina looks more likely as a scumbuddy for Titus than anyone else remaining, primarily because I doubt the final scum would be on the Titus wagon D2 after Morning Tweet got killed N1. It just seems very high risk to bus Titus and be left as the sole scum that early when there's an SK around. Especially with Titus having a very useful power.

Whereas Dei townread Titus and was off the Titus wagon.

So I lean to Dei Ex Machina as the last mafia. And biancospino or Drew for SK.

It's not high risk to bus your buddy when they're widely scumread (or at least not townread) and unlikely to endgame. I'd argue it's riskier not to jump on the wagon at some point during the day, just because it ties us to her and puts us in this exact situation.
It's also not like we were hard-TRing her and fighting to keep her alive. We just thought the case on her was kind of weak, which it was, and preferred to vote someone we actually thought was scummy. At least until I had the existential crisis that was 848; after that, I didn't really know what I wanted.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

It's way too late for this and three quarters of my braincells have shut down, so I'm just going to quote some posts where we discussed that. You may have had meta tells or whatever you were arguing, but that didn't mean much to us.
If you've still got questions, I'll probably get to them tomorrow when I'm functional.

- Nyx

Nyx, current read on Titus, seeing that you didn't go for that wagon?

I forgot about Titus in the midst of the whole fake guilty fiasco.
She was null-maybe-scum yesterday, but on a re-read, she'd probably be

this colour

if I did another readslist. I don't find the case on her compelling as most of it is based on preflip associatives and games I didn't play in. I get the scummy vibes, but I feel like there'd also be more opposition to executing her if she were mafia. Not a single person has townread her all game. It's like the thread just decided "Titus sus amogus" and the scum have no reason not to go along with it.

- Nyx

Ehh am also kinda sitting on my own case of Titus-hesitation, but seeing her posting would be helpful.

It is a bit worrying to me that the case for her being scum isn't really there. The best I can see is Drew suspects her for missing a joke and furtive quoted two posts which sound TMI ish. This is just... not a lot. One could also quibble e.g. with exactly how TMIish the posts furtive referenced are.

Spoiler: Reference to the reference

I don't especially like how GrandpaMo was "at the end of today I'm gonna tell you stuff that town NEED to know" and then more recently "oh it's nothing important not a big deal" but I don't think there's any value in pressing on it now.


Re. my Titus read I feel like she might be soft defending me maybe partly to get me on side and also to set up a "told you so, listen to me instead of going for easy wagons" to have more sway on future days when I flip town if I get limmed.

She feels different this game to the last I was in with her (where she was town) but that could be due to various factors (our roles that game, the fact she was sparring with Mathblade in particular, out of game stuff) so I don't place enough weight on the difference to make a meta case. It just feels less reassuring than it would if she felt the same tonewise.

Fairish. I am at idgaf. Let's go after scummy people.

narrow parking exists

-Mr. Glance

Convince me he's possible partnered with Drew. I don't see it based on recent posting unless the "not yet" post is a post meant for a PT which is stretch even if they are partners.

VOTE: Narrow Parking

Really, you hammered while I was doing my readwall? Are you trying to get me to tunnel you?

These posts give me TMI vibes

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

I was talking with Nyx.
And she thinks that Drew is assigning busywork.
I feel like this is what scum is trying to do.
VOTE: Drew
~Janus

[Dei Ex Machina]

For the record, I said that because I was tired and grumpy, not because I think you're scum. I actually think you're the most likely town of the three, though clearly we aren't in consensus.
What I meant by busywork is that I didn't see the point of asking me to defend a dead scum after their flip. If you want to talk about that postgame, sure, but I don't think it's a relevant discussion and it's not something I really want to put effort into doing right now (and I definitely didn't feel like doing that last night).
Also, I will take that vote off because I think we need to agree before we vote today.

UNVOTE:

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

What are you talking about? You brought up that it was a weak case, you can't say a case that led to scum being elim'ed is weak without an explanation.

It seems like a fair request to me to request a re-explanation of something we've said in the past.

You can't say a case that led to scum being elim'ed is weak without an explanation.

I think this is a bit of a strawman, though. I think people get eliminated for not-totally sound reasons all the time and it's completely fair game to say that a case seems a bit thin.

Nyx has re-quoted a couple posts where we discussed this at the time. Assuming you're town, does that satisfy your curiosity now? Is there anything else you want to know? I personally am happy to explain posts I've made in the past (within reason / if it feels like the conversation is going somewhere).

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Drew... if you don't hate the vote on us and think we're scum, who is SK?
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Imaginality, I like how much detail you've put into the case on us, but I worry that you are pushing a specific view of the world. Your argument is basically "you defended titus, here are a bunch of instances of you pushing other wagons, you must be scum with titus". Have you looked at any other aspects of our play or of other slots' play?

You seemed pretty happy with KittyTacky being Titus's buddy back on day 2 (viewtopic.php?p=13675157#p13675157). With that in mind, do you still find it suspicious that at some points (not all the time) we considered that KT might be Titus's buddy?

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Yeah, Mena, I think it's fairly obvious what sort of mechanical confirmation you have. I believe you and it's probably the likeliest you're right

What made you believe Mena?
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

We are also VT.

[Dei Ex Machina]

We are also VT.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

imaginality, you're up.

[Dei Ex Machina]

And by "vig," do you mean NK-Immune Miller Vig?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I know this is an AI-generated setup, but that feels highly implausible. What mod puts in an SK and two town killing roles?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Unless it's not SK? Did you shoot Morning Tweet? Did you also shoot one of Menalque and Porkens?
I'm very confused right now and I'm inclined to doubt you.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

I know this is an AI-generated setup, but that feels highly implausible. What mod puts in an SK and two town killing roles?

- Nyx

Not to mention, that means town has/had a full jailkeeper, a supercop that auto-kills its guilties,

and

a vigilante. I'll admit I don't know that much about setup design, but something tells me that's not exactly balanced.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Again I say, why are you assuming SK?

I killed Morning Tweet, I tried vigging Kitty(but maybe was blocked by Titus?), and last night I tried vigging Bianco.

Pre Edit: I know there is a role that if an action happens on them it gets redirected onto someone else, but I don't know the name lol

I assumed SK because of the extra kills and the fact that 3p is guaranteed. I guess I could be wrong though.
I think that'd be called Reflexive Redirector. Are you informed of such a role or are you just assuming it?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Again I say, why are you assuming SK?

I killed Morning Tweet, I tried vigging Kitty(but maybe was blocked by Titus?), and last night I tried vigging Bianco.

Pre Edit: I know there is a role that if an action happens on them it gets redirected onto someone else, but I don't know the name lol

I assumed SK because of the extra kills and the fact that 3p is guaranteed. I guess I could be wrong though.
I think that'd be called Reflexive Redirector. Are you informed of such a role or are you just assuming it?

- Nyx

Assuming it because I tried to vig bianco, but they didn't end up dead.

And they claimed VT. Theoretically, that should mean one of you is lying then?

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Well, it's now pretty much confirmed to be one of you.
I'm going to chat with my hydra buddies about which one before I draw any conclusions.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Kitty claimed VT.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Well, it's now pretty much confirmed to be one of you.
I'm going to chat with my hydra buddies about which one before I draw any conclusions.

- Nyx

Nah, fuck off with this.

You keep running away from the fact that it could be you

Still haven't responded to my post Aisa.

Bianco, I tried vigging you.....full stop.

I'm not going to act like it could be me when I know I have a green role PM.
This account also happens to be set to Aisa's timezone and the clock reads 5 AM. My guess is that she has been sleeping.
I'm out for the night too. I'm not going to have anything else meaningful to say until she checks in.

- Nyx

[Dei Ex Machina]

Randomly awake and thinking about how Drew didn't have to claim vig. He was claiming last so could have claimed VT and had a good chance of not being limmed today.

Claiming vig is a risk for nontown!Drew. It could get him limmed if we don't believe the claim. It also puts a target on him tonight if we mislim today. I don't think it makes sense for scum to take that risk?

So I'm leaning to biancospino and Dei as the two scum remaining.

You don't think Drew figured out that people would TR him for claiming Vig despite the risk?
Also, why bianco?
~Janus

[Dei Ex Machina]

Well, it's now pretty much confirmed to be one of you.
I'm going to chat with my hydra buddies about which one before I draw any conclusions.

- Nyx

Nah, fuck off with this.

You keep running away from the fact that it could be you

...You say that as if it's some sort of smoking gun

Still haven't responded to my post Aisa.

Except I literally have:

Spoiler:

What are you talking about? You brought up that it was a weak case, you can't say a case that led to scum being elim'ed is weak without an explanation.

It seems like a fair request to me to request a re-explanation of something we've said in the past.

You can't say a case that led to scum being elim'ed is weak without an explanation.

I think this is a bit of a strawman, though. I think people get eliminated for not-totally sound reasons all the time and it's completely fair game to say that a case seems a bit thin.

Nyx has re-quoted a couple posts where we discussed this at the time. Assuming you're town, does that satisfy your curiosity now? Is there anything else you want to know? I personally am happy to explain posts I've made in the past (within reason / if it feels like the conversation is going somewhere).

-Morta

If you want something else you're free to request this.

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

P-edit: ohoho what perfect timing!

Drew... if you don't hate the vote on us and think we're scum, who is SK?
-Morta

Again with the SK talk, where was the Night 2 kill then?

I was starting to type up a bit of a ramble, but instead if you are town, and I doubt this, then I encourage you to keep in mind what the point of your engagement with us is.

I felt like this was trying to gotcha us. Assuming for a moment that you are a town vig, then we can equally ask the question: where was the Night 2 vig, then? From you POV your kill must have gotten interfered with, but you used the fact a kill was missing against our SK theory. You're right that the 3rd party in the game does not have to be an SK, but, like, one

sometimes makes simplifying assumptions

. Such as assuming that a 3rd party is the most common kind of third party, an SK, when there is also at least one unexplained kill.

Back to the point of talking to us: if you're talking to us this way, then what you're doing is more performance for Kitty and whoever else is Town than actually trying to tell if we are town or scum. Which is ok, if that's what you want to do.

I saved the best for last - and yes, talking to Kitty and whoever is Town, I guess - I was asking who was SK or-third-party because, talking of slots who only need to hunt for one scum, I noticed you had only tried to push one slot the whole day as scum (us).

And the reasoning may have been weak in your eyes, but not in mine. I knew there was something there and I wasn't gonna stop pushing the issue. And you really are trying hard to say you weren't defending Titus, everyone was starting to see how she was scummy, yet you kept balking at voting her. Maybe explicitly you weren't defending her, but you certainly weren't excited to vote her.

Morta(Aisa), kinda like how you were the only one to defend me in AbLoaf when it was clear I was a goner(for everyone else here, we were both scum).

At least now you have some assistance in your hydra to be a bit more subtle about it here.

I think I am at least somewhat more able to understand this as a position. But... any specific reason it's being brought up now?

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Spoiler:

Drew... if you don't hate the vote on us and think we're scum, who is SK?
-Morta

Again with the SK talk, where was the Night 2 kill then?

And the reasoning may have been weak in your eyes, but not in mine. I knew there was something there and I wasn't gonna stop pushing the issue. And you really are trying hard to say you weren't defending Titus, everyone was starting to see how she was scummy, yet you kept balking at voting her. Maybe explicitly you weren't defending her, but you certainly weren't excited to vote her.

Morta(Aisa), kinda like how you were the only one to defend me in AbLoaf when it was clear I was a goner(for everyone else here, we were both scum).

At least now you have some assistance in your hydra to be a bit more subtle about it here.

Well, it's now pretty much confirmed to be one of you.
I'm going to chat with my hydra buddies about which one before I draw any conclusions.

- Nyx

Nah, fuck off with this.

You keep running away from the fact that it could be you

Still haven't responded to my post Aisa.

Bianco, I tried vigging you.....full stop.

It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a man, having waited 2 hours and 48 minutes for a response without having received any, gains the right to accuse his opponent of being the scummiest scum of them all

xoxo

-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

I need to leave for 30 minutes but I will be back
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

All of them are signed Nyx or Janus. I don’t expect you to believe that we are signing in good faith if that’s the route you want to go down, but that doesn’t seem to be your argument.
-Morta

[Dei Ex Machina]

Well, one of the mantras I live by as either alignment is that sometimes it’s best not to respond. I like a little cheeky “ignore the accusation and there’s a 50% chance it’ll just go away.

One of the reasons I thought that strategy was viable in AbLOAF is because I have been correctly found as town by someone in a previous game for clumsily defending scum. Idk what else to say here. I’m sure that to whoever is watching it’s not great that as I defended Titus.

I’m trying to understand what part of your post is in response to what part of my post lol then I can explain

-Morta / Aisa

[Dei Ex Machina]

Oh, I get it now

I was asking who was SK or-third-party because, talking of slots who only need to hunt for one scum, I noticed you had only tried to push one slot the whole day as scum (us).

Yeah I’ll give you the wording was pretty rambly. I will rephrase it.

For all of today (day 4), until I asked you who you thought the SK was, you only pushed one slot (us). I thought this was suspicious, before from the perspective of a townie, there is both a scum and a 3 party to catch.

I’m not saying that you only pushed us in the whole game, in any way. That would in fact be ridiculous

- Morta / Aisa