Mini Normal 2335: Rainbows (Day 4)

[Black]

Hi I'm the new Kay :3

[Black]

Not much to read but I'm not sure if I'll get around to it tonight

[Black]

hey

Replacing Cookie911.

LMFAO

[Black]

Are you scum?

Are you scum?

No! Are you?

No I’m not.

This is so wholesome

[Black]

I support fading someone D1 and I also support RVS

[Black]

JV's early investment feels +town

I agree with this

[Black]

Town pings for Robb for scumreading Hu. I know the feel

I will say I don't think anything Hu has done up to page 4 is particularly scummy. She's hard to read but if you give it time you'll get there

[Black]

@kay, besides Black, who else do you think is worthy of a vote? I have a feeling black may end up replacing out due to inactivity.

This was really trippy for like 3 seconds wow

[Black]

To try and get something going, I’ve liked Roden. I tend to agree with most of their statements, maybe not the vote on not_mafia but I find they’ve been townie.

Mmhmm

[Black]

I think Rational is town

VOTE: T3

[Black]

As I'm making it known now that I scum read you. This doesn't feel like town your for some reason. I'm listening to my vibes

I think you rely on meta a bit too much. And more importantly I don't even agree with the meta read. What are you basing this off of?

[Black]

What did you look at

[Black]

I'm struggling to find someone to scumread

I vibe with this

[Black]

*pats seat next to me on T3's wagon*

[Black]

I am not town reading you just for that, your play overall just feels town to me. It's day 1 so reads aren't going to be that strong, anyway. I am also rusty and I am not really used to developing town reads, but I am trying to not fall back into my old habits. That is why I have essentially ignored NM and not going as aggressive on Hu Tao as I would have in the past.

Can you send a scum game of yours? Even if it's awhile ago.

Hu did you have something specific in mind about Robb that you wanted to look for when you asked this?

[Black]

I am seeing Black as scummy on entrance, feel she's voting T3 because either it's a bus and she hopes others react by disliking the wagon and turning it on someone or because T3 has lurked overall and is an easy target (she is the second vote on him, not first).

Wagons are good

[Black]

I also can't read T3, just tlike with N_M, pure nullread.

Hey you know what helps with reading nullreads sometimes? Pressure. You may not like my vote for T3 but it serves a purpose

[Black]

awesomeming, black, jacksonvirgo probably town

rationalmadman, hu tao, robbnva maybe scum

Can you explain these scumreads

[Black]

So yes I have just given reads more recently, but I want to get the flow of this game going. I think a wagon on t3 and N_M would make them both have to play or potentially die.

Sounds like you're down to join me on T3

[Black]

black please explain t3

I didn't get much in terms of scum pings when I was catching up but I liked Roden's vote and I like Roden so far in general so I wanted to add pressure there

[Black]

black please explain t3

I didn't get much in terms of scum pings when I was catching up but I liked Roden's vote and I like Roden so far in general so I wanted to add pressure there

Why did you like Roden's vote

I think pressuring you is a decent way to get you to do stuff

[Black]

That being said I do think your responses today have been decent so my vote is kinda stale now

[Black]

VOTE: awesomeming

This is the worst vote on the halfasleep wagon

[Black]

sad attempt at omgus + i wasnt even scumreading you originally

no it isn't + you said you had a red check on me and the only way that can be interpreted is as a scum read. If you meant something else, I feel like you would have clarified it by now.

In all fairness that was his first post of the game and it was probably a joke

[Black]

Not probably. It was a joke

[Black]

I guess it makes sense to interpret it as a scumread though since it came on page 5 which was the tail end of RVS

[Black]

In all fairness that was his first post of the game and it was probably a joke

sure, probably was but even as a joke, he could have voted me. When he did have a scum read, he didn't vote them either. Just trying to find out why they aren't voting their scum reads.

A reasonable thought. I'm just not sure they actually scumread you here but obviously I can't prove that

[Black]

If they did, don’t care. I’m just trying to understand the motive behind not voting a scum read if you have one.

I'd rather let ming answer first tbh

[Black]

Black may be a double voter cause he is on there twice lol

One is Black (me) and one is BlackStar

[Black]

@mod: you still have Jackson voting for Kay and it should be me

[Black]

We have a black and a blackstar so we are fine

Hi, are you an alt? Or just new to the site?

[Black]

We have a black and a blackstar so we are fine

Haha didn’t notice that. Thanks

Trying to decide if this is a townslip or a lie. Surely scum would be keeping tabs on the different players

[Black]

We have a black and a blackstar so we are fine

Hi, are you an alt? Or just new to the site?

New to this site, I’ve done video and text before.

Well welcome

How many games have you played and what is your favorite role?

[Black]

So yes I have just given reads more recently, but I want to get the flow of this game going. I think a wagon on t3 and N_M would make them both have to play or potentially die.

I'm curious why you didn't vote for either of them if you actually believe this

[Black]

VOTE: Charles

Do you have a reason?

Still waiting for a reason

You asked that 12 hours ago and Hu hasn't even posted since then

[Black]

We have a black and a blackstar so we are fine

Haha didn’t notice that. Thanks

Trying to decide if this is a townslip or a lie. Surely scum would be keeping tabs on the different players

For some reason I don't like this post. As scum I've forgotten players tbh

Skill issue ig

[Black]

VOTE: Charles

Do you have a reason?

Still waiting for a reason

You asked that 12 hours ago and Hu hasn't even posted since then

oh good point

hu tao looks potentially scummy enough that it's probably worth running her up just to get her to react seriously to something
VOTE: Hu Tao
this is a better wagon to be on than mine imo

This line of logic makes literally 0 sense. If you agreed with the premise you would wait for me to reply before voting me

I agree with this

[Black]

VOTE: halfasleep

e-1

[Black]

VOTE: T3

[Black]

The crumbs seem fine to me. The optimal play is to leave the claimed PR alive. If halfasleep is town then scum have to take care of her at some point. If she's scum then she can potentially spew her teammates and clear people with results

I don't think T3's scumread on halfasleep could possibly be strong enough to want to fade her here and I think scum is more likely to try and force the fade through

[Black]

I think t3 is not someone to put pressure on. I think Charles is someone to look at and pressure.

vote: Charles

I don't want to pressure him. I want to fade him

[Black]

Pure, raw, Town Cop is just not really a role that people like to put in their Mini Normal games

I think I've only seen it once in the 40 or so Mini Normal games I've played

I'm not great with setup/balance but even if you're right I don't think we can be sure halfasleep isn't withholding modifiers

[Black]

Why is Charles scummy?

[Black]

UNVOTE:

Having second thoughts on this

I'm heading out for the evening. I may or may not drunk post later

[Black]

I am wondering why Black rushed HA to E-1. Something about it doesn't sit well with me, seemed faked reasoning to force a claim or enable a mishammer (or both).

I mostly wanted to gauge reactions. I started to think halfasleep was kinda scummy after looking over her iso but I didn't really want to fade anyone. I kinda thought there would be a claim at intent, what I didn't expect was LK to declare intent and for you to ask for a claim. I'll admit it's maybe careless of me but it's not scum

I'm curious why you have an issue with my vote but don't seem to think anything about LK suddenly wanting to hammer after talking about being so cautious with her vote

[Black]

Ok now I really have to go lol

[Black]

Black, your vote on T3 feels incredibly shallow, I don’t believe you of all people think that’s a wolf from that. This feels like a pivot to somewhere for the sake of the pivot, rather than you thinking T3 is scum for that

shrug

I wasn't convinced he was scum but at the time I thought there was an above average chance he was

[Black]

No. That's why I unvoted

[Black]

I think T3 could still be scum but on a second look at the situation I realized it may not have been as scum indicative as I thought

[Black]

VOTE: awesomeming

[Black]

Hey Robb just a heads up that we don't use the "L" word anymore. I like "fade" but others seem to like "lim" or "elim"

[Black]

I oppose an Awesomeming elimination.

I say it and leave it at that.

What are your thoughts on LK?

[Black]

And what are your thoughts on Charles, HA and yourself?

I don't have a strong read on Charles. He's vibing similarly to the only other game I've played with him. HA isn't locktown but I'm not really interested in fading there today. Me? I'm town

Why should I not eliminate you?

My HA vote wasn't scummy. I don't remember if there are any other reasons you think I'm scum

Why vote Awesomeming?

Mixture of me thinking he hasn't done anything particularly townie, wanting a wagon, and having a lack of better scumreads

[Black]

You voting T3 upon entry was voting someone you felt wouldn't fight back much, imo.

You're wrong. I've had success pressuring T3 into doing stuff before. Most recently in this game

Then you suddenly putting HA e-1 felt unnatural

Townies can play loose too

You didn't even ask for claim and declare intent to put e-1, nor did you justify the vote.

I didn't necessarily want her to claim so why would I ask for her to? I've never heard of declaring intent to e-1 before lol. As for your last point, I did explain why I voted. Maybe you just didn't like what I had to say

[Black]

Yes. I've mentioned this already

I also can't read T3, just tlike with N_M, pure nullread.

Hey you know what helps with reading nullreads sometimes? Pressure. You may not like my vote for T3 but it serves a purpose

black please explain t3

I didn't get much in terms of scum pings when I was catching up but I liked Roden's vote and I like Roden so far in general so I wanted to add pressure there

Why did you like Roden's vote

I think pressuring you is a decent way to get you to do stuff

[Black]

You would invite him if wagon built?

No. I think the wagon is what makes him do stuff

If your objective was a long DP with a lot of a ctivity why rush the HA lim?

I didn't really want to fade HA. If it happened, fine, I thought there was an ok chance she flipped scum, but I mainly wanted to gauge reactions. I wasn't expecting LK to declare intent at all

I also doubt you'd unvote T3 if others joined it. It doesn't add up that you wanted to pressure him and also wanted a fast DP1 ending voting HA like that.

I wouldn't have unvoted. Not until I was satisfied with his response to the pressure

Why did you vote HA can you fully explain it?

I explained it in 387. Are you even reading my posts? How do you think I'm scum but you didn't read two of my responses to you?

[Black]

This read kinda feels fake from Rational tbh

[Black]

I explained it in 387. Are you even reading my posts? How do you think I'm scum but you didn't read two of my responses to you?

393* ...not sure how that happened

[Black]

Rational why do you think ming is town

[Black]

Rational why do you think ming is town

I'll repeat why.

His progression throughout the DP is what a Towny who is minimalistic but not entirely lurking would do.

How do differentiate between lurky minimalistic town and lurky minimalistic scum?

[Black]

How do you*

Why can't we type rn

[Black]

If HA is real, it is possible Ming is scum but why did he stop reacting? I feel if he is Scum he keeps pushing for HA to go as a fake there. I also feel him being very engaged earlier but suddenly bored is matching many other players, majority of who have to be Town.

I think scum back off of a PR claim for the town points quite often. And I would also argue that ming hasn't ever really been "very engaged". He has ten posts, and most of them come from a pointless argument with Robb in which ming doesn't even feel like he's trying to sort Robb

A minimalistic Towny tends to try harder when others do and when they think it matters and disengage when they don't see others trying hard and think it doesn't matter.

Huh? Scum do what you're describing here all the time. As the effort goes up the scum are pressured to try and keep up. Scum also thrive when everyone is doing nothing and they can blend right in

[Black]

VOTE: RationalMadman

Behaviorally I think Rational reads town but I'm starting to think that may just be a personality thing. The reads on me/ming/and LK feel manufactured

I think town!Rational would have an issue with LK going from 0 to 100 on halfasleep. If the thought process of "Black = scum due to halfasleep vote" is real then Rational would have found an issue with LK's progression too. Him completely ignoring it makes it possible that LK is his buddy and 357/362 was a coordinated push to get HA to claim

I also feel like Rational may be spewing ming as town here because the townread makes so little sense that it feels like it has to be informed, though there's a chance he's just coming up with awful reasons to defend his buddy. Regardless I think Rational is probably more likely to flip scum

[Black]

If HA is real, it is possible Ming is scum but why did he stop reacting? I feel if he is Scum he keeps pushing for HA to go as a fake there. I also feel him being very engaged earlier but suddenly bored is matching many other players, majority of who have to be Town.

I think scum back off of a PR claim for the town points quite often. And I would also argue that ming hasn't ever really been "very engaged". He has ten posts, and most of them come from a pointless argument with Robb in which ming doesn't even feel like he's trying to sort Robb

A minimalistic Towny tends to try harder when others do and when they think it matters and disengage when they don't see others trying hard and think it doesn't matter.

Huh? Scum do what you're describing here all the time. As the effort goes up the scum are pressured to try and keep up. Scum also thrive when everyone is doing nothing and they can blend right in

so why did Awesomeming vote HA if he is Scum?

You can just look at the results to understand why scum would want to build HA's wagon up. Obviously there are townie motivations for the vote as well but surely you can see the scum motivations too

[Black]

I'm finding it really hard to believe you can't considering you are accusing me of being scum and voting for HA

[Black]

VOTE: RationalMadman

Behaviorally I think Rational reads town but I'm starting to think that may just be a personality thing. The reads on me/ming/and LK feel manufactured

I think town!Rational would have an issue with LK going from 0 to 100 on halfasleep. If the thought process of "Black = scum due to halfasleep vote" is real then Rational would have found an issue with LK's progression too. Him completely ignoring it makes it possible that LK is his buddy and 357/362 was a coordinated push to get HA to claim

I also feel like Rational may be spewing ming as town here because the townread makes so little sense that it feels like it has to be informed, though there's a chance he's just coming up with awful reasons to defend his buddy. Regardless I think Rational is probably more likely to flip scum

LK didn't vote HA, being willing to hammer is different to going 0 to 100

Your original issue with me was that my vote seemed unnatural. I find it extremely hard to believe you found LK's intent to hammer natural after her previous posts. She wouldn't vote for T3 or NM despite thinking them being wagoned would be a good thing (258), she said she thought HA's vibe reads were better than what T3/NM were producing and even said she wanted to hear more about HA's vibe reads before voting for someone (274), she said she hates voting early (318), and then she declares intent by threatening to hammer HA (357)

Can you explain to me how this feels natural to you?

[Black]

when someone is e-1 they have to claim. There is nothing coordinated about knowing that.

False. You don’t automatically claim when an e-1. You claim when someone not voting asks for it and intend to hammer.

Yep. Or at least generally speaking. I'm used to claims at intent but sometimes they come at e-1 and then people are like "you should have waited until intent"

[Black]

VOTE: RationalMadman

Behaviorally I think Rational reads town but I'm starting to think that may just be a personality thing. The reads on me/ming/and LK feel manufactured

I think town!Rational would have an issue with LK going from 0 to 100 on halfasleep. If the thought process of "Black = scum due to halfasleep vote" is real then Rational would have found an issue with LK's progression too. Him completely ignoring it makes it possible that LK is his buddy and 357/362 was a coordinated push to get HA to claim

I also feel like Rational may be spewing ming as town here because the townread makes so little sense that it feels like it has to be informed, though there's a chance he's just coming up with awful reasons to defend his buddy. Regardless I think Rational is probably more likely to flip scum

LK didn't vote HA, being willing to hammer is different to going 0 to 100

Your original issue with me was that my vote seemed unnatural. I find it extremely hard to believe you found LK's intent to hammer natural after her previous posts. She wouldn't vote for T3 or NM despite thinking them being wagoned would be a good thing (258), she said she thought HA's vibe reads were better than what T3/NM were producing and even said she wanted to hear more about HA's vibe reads before voting for someone (274), she said she hates voting early (318), and then she declares intent by threatening to hammer HA (357)

Can you explain to me how this feels natural to you?

What does 'natural' mean when talking about someone being willing to hammer? I can't think how that's ever unnatural unless they hard townread the other player.

You said that me putting HA at e-1 was unnatural in 466. I want to know why you don't consider LK's progression on HA unnatural. She went from wanting to wait for HA to talk about her vibe reads before voting T3/NM to suddenly scumreading HA and declaring intent to hammer her and you didn't blink an eye

[Black]

Sad to see BS go but at least we get Gypyx

[Black]

This read kinda feels fake from Rational tbh

Disagree. I think he's pretty obv town. Even if he wasn't, I think most people tr him so I don't think he'd be an Elim today anyway. Thoughts on others?

I don't think he's obv town at all and I think you are townreading his personality more than his reads and content

[Black]

otherwise - got the town feelings on black, this is pretty major and i've correctly nailed scum!black based on feelings that one time so i think it has more value than the average Gypyx read (the average Gypyx read sucks hard)

this whole debate around whether or not to claim is irrelevant, the claim happened, we just play it out now, there's a cool place called mafia discussion for that

town vibes from Roden also

Robb suddenly wanting to vote me is not at all Towny btw, robb basically goes back and forth on his reads relentlessly, yet he can't justify why he himself didn't vote HA.

Robb/Black/HA can literally be the team.

I'm leaning town on black right now. Think she's just on the wrong track so far

Which one of you is pocketing me

[Black]

Is it unusual on this website to be willing to hammer someone DP1 even if you don't scumread them much? I am confused what you're asking me.

I'm asking you why do you think me voting for HA is unnatural while also thinking that LK declaring intent to hammer HA isn't unnatural

Your stated reason for thinking my vote is scummy/unnatural is because I didn't scumread HA much before I voted. LK didn't scumread HA before she declared intent to hammer her. Why do you not think LK is scummy for that?

[Black]

Black the reason I showed intent to hammer is due to the fact in many posts I wanted to hear some reason for the vibe reads HA had. I wanted to get a little more concrete reasons for these not having her out. That is my bad, but this is better than someone hammering without stating intent. I don't want that to happen to anyone for any reason. It sounds so shitty to have happen while your away or doing other things.

I agree that it's better to declare intent but the issue I'm having is I don't understand why you declared intent in the first place

[Black]

Is it unusual on this website to be willing to hammer someone DP1 even if you don't scumread them much? I am confused what you're asking me.

I'm asking you why do you think me voting for HA is unnatural while also thinking that LK declaring intent to hammer HA isn't unnatural

Your stated reason for thinking my vote is scummy/unnatural is because I didn't scumread HA much before I voted. LK didn't scumread HA before she declared intent to hammer her. Why do you not think LK is scummy for that?

Because in my world putting someone e-1 is the vote that blackmails a claim and ensures they're 100% threatened. In yours, saying 'intent to hammer' is the stage it happens instead.

Regardless of which stage the claim happens, you should still be concerned that LK is suddenly ready to flip HA, just like you were concerned that I was suddenly ready to flip HA. The fact that you don't is part of the reason I think your reads are fake

[Black]

VOTE: LoveKilling

[Black]

Regardless I think Rational is probably more likely to flip scum

I think I feel the opposite now

[Black]

Calling it for post game cred that LK is scum PR and Rational is her goon

[Black]

There's clearly some communication issues here. I'm too exhausted to keep the conversation from 566 going. And there's no slip. A little while ago I thought you were more likely to be scum than LK. Now I feel like she's more likely to be scum than you. I don't think you are understanding a lot of what I'm saying

[Black]

Actually no this one is on me lol. That quote was referencing me thinking you were more likely to be scum than ming. I thought I had said that about LK. So I understand the confusion but at no point did I imply I thought you were town

[Black]

NM Vs HA, one scum there I reckon. Not 2 though, just 1.

Black and Robb vs Awesomeming, 1 or 2 scum there and I bet it's Black.

Third otherwise if not Robb?

Hu Tao or greedybear.

This is my theory.

If my Hu Tao wagon peters out, I join your Black wagon and they flip green, can I interest you in Hu Tao down the line? I do scumread Black but do not think Hu Tao/Black/HA is a viable team and im building myself a railroad.

This is blatantly lining up miselims

VOTE: Greedy

Blatantly lining up elims for sure. Miselims though? I wouldn't say that. Other than yourself, would you? How does my attempt to build consensus with the clearest town actually indicate alignment at all? Do you think that my views expressed in my first post wont actually change with an entire days worth of information? Let alone one and a half. As town was the best way to catch me as scum with this post to point it out now, or to wait to see if I actually made no further attempt to solve past it? Is your vote on me anything other than retaliatory? Why did you draw conclusions on everything I did in an admittedly pretty provocative introduction and your only question was not an attempt to contextualise or understand what I did but was wondering what I saw to make you suspicious to me?

This feels townie

[Black]

If JV had come back with intense tryhardihg and analysis like promised, I'd have Townread him.

The total absence of that combined with GB's joining on HT which isn't explained well at all make me vote GB.

Do you think JV was trying to bus me or do you think we're unpartnered?

[Black]

Yeah Greedy on page 25 is just reaffirming my townread on Jackson

[Black]

NM Vs HA, one scum there I reckon. Not 2 though, just 1.

Black and Robb vs Awesomeming, 1 or 2 scum there and I bet it's Black.

Third otherwise if not Robb?

Hu Tao or greedybear.

This is my theory.

If my Hu Tao wagon peters out, I join your Black wagon and they flip green, can I interest you in Hu Tao down the line? I do scumread Black but do not think Hu Tao/Black/HA is a viable team and im building myself a railroad.

This is blatantly lining up miselims

VOTE: Greedy

Why did you give up on the Charles vote btw?

Because I tried to get others to vote there and no one will for some reason.

Why do you scumread Charles?

[Black]

Is Charles a troll account? Serious question

Do you not remember the game all 3 of us played together last year?

[Black]

Charles is trolling too hard to be scum

Wow we kind of agree on something!

I think he could be scum but I don't think it's super likely

[Black]

I think Gypyx's push on Charles is probably more likely to come from town. I can see how Charles would appear scummy to someone that hasn't played with him before and Gypyx scumreading everything he's doing from readslists to votes to responses is probably genuine as opposed to scum going for lhf

[Black]

Is Charles a troll account? Serious question

Do you not remember the game all 3 of us played together last year?

Was that the game that I was vaniłla town voted out on day one?

It was the one where you were making Chat GPT posts

[Black]

Yeah Greedy on page 25 is just reaffirming my townread on Jackson

Come sheep my HT wagon then. You can have the brownies that RT so rudely refused.

Maybe I missed it but why do you think Hu is scum?

[Black]

Yeah Greedy on page 25 is just reaffirming my townread on Jackson

Come sheep my HT wagon then. You can have the brownies that RT so rudely refused.

Maybe I missed it but why do you think Hu is scum?

621 and 613 lay it out.

Basically no attempt to sort people, reactionary rather than proactive, terrible HA associations, more concerned with self preservation than problem solving, letting thier vote languish in entirely non-useful places.

A lot of these things are present in her town game so I'm not sure I can join you here. I think we have much better options. What are your thoughts on LK?

[Black]

Can you explain why you townread me on page 25 but I had to explain to you what I said on page 25 just now?

I hadn't actually make it to 621 when I wrote that, and I read 613 as more of a case on HA than Hu

[Black]

I'm townread the bite you have in your tone and I think your questions and logic feel natural

[Black]

NM Vs HA, one scum there I reckon. Not 2 though, just 1.

Black and Robb vs Awesomeming, 1 or 2 scum there and I bet it's Black.

Third otherwise if not Robb?

Hu Tao or greedybear.

This is my theory.

If my Hu Tao wagon peters out, I join your Black wagon and they flip green, can I interest you in Hu Tao down the line? I do scumread Black but do not think Hu Tao/Black/HA is a viable team and im building myself a railroad.

This is blatantly lining up miselims

VOTE: Greedy

Why did you give up on the Charles vote btw?

Because I tried to get others to vote there and no one will for some reason.

Why do you scumread Charles?

Cause he's doing nothing but I think he's just trolling as town now

Is Charles a troll account? Serious question

Do you not remember the game all 3 of us played together last year?

Was that the game that I was vaniłla town voted out on day one?

It's the game you were a Mason I think

So you remember the game in which Charles did nothing as town and you still wanted to fade him for doing nothing here?

[Black]

Hey RM do you still want the taste of sweet sweet Black blood?

Do you think I'm lying about my townread on you?

[Black]

Yes because he was posting more that game than he was here until today

Does it really count if the posts were written by Chat GPT?

[Black]

Hey RM do you still want the taste of sweet sweet Black blood?

Do you think I'm lying about my townread on you?

I mean you DID lie about your townread of me.

How?

[Black]

Hey RM do you still want the taste of sweet sweet Black blood?

Do you think I'm lying about my townread on you?

I mean you DID lie about your townread of me.

How?

The words you said. They were not true.

Then you must be misinterpreting my words

I'm assuming you're talking about this post:

Yeah Greedy on page 25 is just reaffirming my townread on Jackson

I was live posting my thoughts as I was catching up. I didn't make it to the end of page 25 when I wrote this, and I never implied that I did

[Black]

Greedy just seems a bit too. Theatrical for me. That's why I think they are scum

Wdym by "theatrical" exactly? Like I know the definition but what is your interpretation of it here? And how does it compare to how you view Rational's play?

[Black]

VOTE: KayKayKueue

wanna do this with me?

Can't tell if this is a townslip or a bad attempt at one

[Black]

Yeah but I replaced Kay...

[Black]

i think Kay's frozen scum

also +1 to the black townread

This wasn't a joke?

[Black]

Maybe I missed it but why do you think Hu is scum?

Not "Maybe I havn't gotten to it yet".

Nah at that point I had finished catching up so I did miss it

[Black]

This is litterally me spelling kay's name wrong for the lulz

OH

i understeand why kay's ISO was so short now lol

UNVOTE:

i must go, i'll be pondering my orb

Ok you can be town for this lol

[Black]

Maybe I missed it but why do you think Hu is scum?

Not "Maybe I havn't gotten to it yet".

Nah at that point I had finished catching up so I did miss it

So you now agree you gave me headpats based on a page which you HAD finished but did seem to grasp the most substantive posts in

I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to grasp

I wrote 686 while I was catching up. I was somewhere in the middle of page 25 when this hit me

My posts immediately following 686 continue my catch up

I wrote 694 long after I finished reading page 25

[Black]

Charles you should join me on LK. I don't think Greedy has very good reads

[Black]

Could you have done a worse job defending yourself for like 24 hours though?

I always defend myself against bullshit attacks. Your "lie" argument is no different

[Black]

VOTE: KayKayKueue

wanna do this with me?

Black IS Kay

[Black]

Could you have done a worse job defending yourself for like 24 hours though?

I always defend myself against bullshit attacks. Your "lie" argument is no different

Do you see no value in seeing who could be convinced?

Sure. But if I'm being called a liar that is something I'd rather clear up while I'm here and available

[Black]

Could you have done a worse job defending yourself for like 24 hours though?

I always defend myself against bullshit attacks. Your "lie" argument is no different

Do you see no value in seeing who could be convinced?

Sure. But if I'm being called a liar that is something I'd rather clear up while I'm here and available

I'm not sharing my brownies with you

Spoiler:

[Black]

Charles you should join me on LK. I don't think Greedy has very good reads

Is there anything you want me to answer or you want to question me about? I’m leaning you LT so I want to try and work with you.

What does your readslist look like rn?

[Black]

VOTE: RationalMadman

Behaviorally I think Rational reads town but I'm starting to think that may just be a personality thing. The reads on me/ming/and LK feel manufactured

I think town!Rational would have an issue with LK going from 0 to 100 on halfasleep. If the thought process of "Black = scum due to halfasleep vote" is real then Rational would have found an issue with LK's progression too. Him completely ignoring it makes it possible that LK is his buddy and 357/362 was a coordinated push to get HA to claim

I also feel like Rational may be spewing ming as town here because the townread makes so little sense that it feels like it has to be informed, though there's a chance he's just coming up with awful reasons to defend his buddy. Regardless I think Rational is probably more likely to flip scum

I buy this

I'm gonna read more but I buy this and might vote RMM

I'm down for a Rational vote but I think LK is more likely to flip scum and also more likely to actually go through

[Black]

VOTE: RationalMadman

Behaviorally I think Rational reads town but I'm starting to think that may just be a personality thing. The reads on me/ming/and LK feel manufactured

I think town!Rational would have an issue with LK going from 0 to 100 on halfasleep. If the thought process of "Black = scum due to halfasleep vote" is real then Rational would have found an issue with LK's progression too. Him completely ignoring it makes it possible that LK is his buddy and 357/362 was a coordinated push to get HA to claim

I also feel like Rational may be spewing ming as town here because the townread makes so little sense that it feels like it has to be informed, though there's a chance he's just coming up with awful reasons to defend his buddy. Regardless I think Rational is probably more likely to flip scum

I buy this

I'm gonna read more but I buy this and might vote RMM

You are agreeing with a take that not even the original holder has any more.

3 days. We need to converge, not open up more fronts. We are going to get forced into an awful compromise candidate everyone just wants thier pet lynch.

???

[Black]

I'm going to go through my sort of thoughts with the votes. For me NM, Charles, T3, Greedy, and Awesome are who I would vote with HT as a maybe. Rob and Roden are my town with Black as a LT. I don't think gypyx or RMM are good kills due to how they are contributing. I probably won't get traction on Charles and NM at this point. So for me T3, Greedy, and awesome are up. So I'll go with awesome to get more info out of them

Vote: Awesomeming

Why ming over Hu?

[Black]

By readlist I'm wanting to see what your list looks like if you ranked everyone from most likely to be town to most likely to be scum

[Black]

My issue right now you see is that of the wagons that exist its you, me, awesome (Who im on record as hating it), HA ( Mechanically a bad idea for today) and a Black led LK sort of deal. I'm not getting black through in 3 days probably. Gypsx, Robb and Roden I could get behind (Let me know if anyone wants this). Interested to hear more from RM but would generally prefer Black first.

Why do you scumread me?

[Black]

VOTE: Awesomeming

let's start here

We are 3 days from deadline and you want to start activity policing people? Are you that adverse to doing anything?

I think it's a good kill

No associatives, no information. A green flip is terrible and a red flip is lucky. Theres one team this is a good kill for and its not town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Not_Mafia

There seems be a disconnect between these two posts

[Black]

If you legitimately think ming is a bad flip due to no associatives or information then why are you willing to fade NM?

[Black]

If you legitimately think ming is a bad flip due to no associatives or information then why are you willing to fade NM?

Greedy wagon?

Eh idk, maybe. I'd like for him to respond to this

[Black]

I think both Rational and Greedy are trying to get us away from a ming fade and that just makes me want to fade ming more

[Black]

Maybe it's just ming/Greedy

772 seems like a lie and I don't understand why town!Greedy would lie here

[Black]

I think both Rational and Greedy are trying to get us away from a ming fade and that just makes me want to fade ming more

You said you had changed your mind I was Scum and then said I'm with LK. Now suddenly you claim to think I am with greedy and Awesomeming?

I never changed my mind about you being scum. I'm not sure who is partnered with who tbh

[Black]

I think both Rational and Greedy are trying to get us away from a ming fade and that just makes me want to fade ming more

You said you had changed your mind I was Scum and then said I'm with LK. Now suddenly you claim to think I am with greedy and Awesomeming?

I never changed my mind about you being scum. I'm not sure who is partnered with who tbh

You said 'the opposite' and stopped voting me.

I said "I feel the opposite" in reference to me thinking you were more likely scum than x. That means I think x is more likely scum than you now. It doesn't mean I think you're town

[Black]

I think it's possible. I'll need to look over Greedy's posts when I get off work because I was townreading him before I found this contradiction

[Black]

having awesome at 2nd most townie, there is something wrong here. Based on content, you can't say awesome has done anything to warrant a town read because they have done nothing this game. They have 12 posts out of 960 and they didn't push/vote their scum read until a wagon was forming. Also their reaction to their only scum read claiming town PR doesn't fit how a normal person would react.

Mmhmm

[Black]

Awesomeming never posts a lot especially not on DP1s.

Metadive him a bit and stick to ISOs.

When he is Scum he tunnels and aggravates others more. When he is Town he does things like suddenly voting HA there and disengaging if it goes wrong and just not caring.

He never tryhards ever. Show me I am wrong.

This is not a good reason to townread ming

[Black]

This was me typing, seeming like a quote:

I wanted a fast NoElim and will advocate that, annoying or not, every DP1 of a 13 person normal game I am in as that's just straight up optimal.

I want Black or Robb over GB. Black Vs Robb has 1 scum in it, I am telling you.

You're not fading me or Robb today so looks like you'll have to settle for Greedy

[Black]

having awesome at 2nd most townie, there is something wrong here. Based on content, you can't say awesome has done anything to warrant a town read because they have done nothing this game. They have 12 posts out of 960 and they didn't push/vote their scum read until a wagon was forming. Also their reaction to their only scum read claiming town PR doesn't fit how a normal person would react.

Mmhmm

Vote greedy bestie

Stop rushing me lol. I said I wanted to look after work

[Black]

Awesomeming never posts a lot especially not on DP1s.

Metadive him a bit and stick to ISOs.

When he is Scum he tunnels and aggravates others more. When he is Town he does things like suddenly voting HA there and disengaging if it goes wrong and just not caring.

He never tryhards ever. Show me I am wrong.

This is not a good reason to townread ming

It is.

If I told you that I lolhammered someone I didn't scumread (as town) a couple games ago would that change your read on me at all?

[Black]

If we cant get a consensus on anyone who actually said anything today i'd rather go for the player among the three who havn't who has been pushed the least

This logic doesn't make sense to me. If your issue with fading ming revolved around getting no information then why would you then vote for someone that gives us even less information? Why would them being pushed less make you more inclined to vote for them? Especially considering one of your main goals has been to try to reach a consensus?

[Black]

VOTE: Awesomeming

back here i go

Just as I was getting my attention Explain yourself!

Reasonable explaination for how you acted around ming / N_M

I'm curious what makes it reasonable to you

[Black]

Well as I did lay out to HT yesterday the current wagons at more than 1 vote were Awesome, Me and HT. I was already on HT (And still would be down please kill HT with me) , i'm me and I hate the awesome wagon

I need a competing wagon to Awesome that can get 7 people behind it

I guess part of my confusion stems from you hating the awesome wagon but not hating a potential NM wagon. I don't think the fact that NM wasn't pushed as much as ming would be enough for you to suddenly be ok with a low-information fade

[Black]

would be great if we could consolidate

pick 2 wagons you wanna go for

LK/Rational

Could compromise on ming I suppose

[Black]

VOTE: awesomeming

e-2

[Black]

VOTE: Awesome

E-1

UNVOTE:

Forgot not mafia was in this game. But consider this e-1

Awesome you should just claim

I lowkey want to townread this sequence but I know I probably shouldn't

[Black]

Spoiler:

rookie lol

[Black]

In fact I want to draw out this day as long as possible so that they're forced to post game-progressing content or be force-replaced

If that sounds mean well too bad, they gave us zero content yesterday and then quick hammered

This is the way

[Black]

anyone trying to rush me to elimination without even hearing my investigative result are blatantly antitown imo

Not claiming your result when a mob is at your door is pretty antitown too

[Black]

VOTE: halfasleep

Is that nice enough?

[Black]

I'm town, and I still think it's LK

VOTE: LK

(My pronouns are she/her btw)

[Black]

Meh. I kinda believed HA at first and I didn't like how T3 was trying to brute force it through. Shortly after I realized that T3's conviction could have been due to him being the real cop and I unvoted

[Black]

HA fake claimed almost immediately, it's likely that it was discussed in the PT and that scum would vote her so that they could distance from each other

Funnily enough this is part of the reason I think LK is scum. Her sudden willingness to hammer HA seems too unnatural to be real

[Black]

HA fake claimed almost immediately, it's likely that it was discussed in the PT and that scum would vote her so that they could distance from each other

Funnily enough this is part of the reason I think LK is scum. Her sudden willingness to hammer HA seems too unnatural to be real

I don't town read LK, but I don't see a sudden willingness to hammer HA in their ISO. 357 could possibly be interpreted that way I guess, but it's just a matter-of-fact statement imo.

She admitted it was intent

[Black]

HA fake claimed almost immediately, it's likely that it was discussed in the PT and that scum would vote her so that they could distance from each other

Funnily enough this is part of the reason I think LK is scum. Her sudden willingness to hammer HA seems too unnatural to be real

I don't town read LK, but I don't see a sudden willingness to hammer HA in their ISO. 357 could possibly be interpreted that way I guess, but it's just a matter-of-fact statement imo.

She admitted it was intent

Are you talking about 546?

Yeah. She brings it up again in 561


I also think it's pretty scummy to leave HA out of the list in 761 even if LK's plan was to ignore her

[Black]

Whoops. 794 I mean

[Black]

This game died I guess

[Black]

I think Roden is town. Robb has given me town vibes this game too. I think if there's scum on my wagon then it's probably Gypyx

I still think LK/RationalPsyche is very possible

[Black]

Hoping to hear more from Psyche in general. Greedy too

[Black]

So it seems I'm in the same boat as you Black. Roden/Rob town down, to kill Psyche due to RMM. So I feel black that we could be town together. Reads are still about the same from d1 with Greedy being higher than Rmm

What do you think about Gypyx?

[Black]

Robbnva, Roden, Gypyx are my current preferred pool of eliminations for today.

Can you explain these scumreads?

[Black]

I could compromise on Gypyx but I would prefer a couple others over her today

[Black]

My gut plus half’s reads still says you/black are probably last scum and your defense of black today doesn’t really do much to weaken that

Your gut is wrong, and HA's reads don't implicate me at all. It feels like you're trying to force this for some reason

[Black]

Given half flipped scum. What’s your opinion on my opinion that black was trying to start a counter wagon, by voting somebody who was voting half, and then gave up that idea and joined the half wagon late for no apparent reason. Essentially doing a 180 for no apparent reason

I gave plenty of reasons for voting HA. You may not like them but they exist

[Black]

My gut plus half’s reads still says you/black are probably last scum and your defense of black today doesn’t really do much to weaken that

Your gut is wrong, and HA's reads don't implicate me at all. It feels like you're trying to force this for some reason

His reads plus the way you tried to vote somebody on their wagon and doing a 180 for no reason contributed to my gut read. By all means you can try and justify your behavior and I’ll consider it but I just can’t see how town you would do that. Town don’t just do a 180 for no reason

My behavior doesn't need to be justified. I voted ming because his vote on HA sucked, and I voted HA to try and get something out of the reactions. Your implication that town always provides the reasoning for their actions up front is wild to me. Sometimes it's better to not show all your cards

VOTE: awesomeming

This is the worst vote on the halfasleep wagon

VOTE: halfasleep

e-1

Between these two posts there is no reasoning given for the 180. Feel free to point out what I’ve missed.

355 is where I started to think HA could be scum. I put her at e-1 right afterward and explained why in 393

[Black]

Black are you SURE you want LK today and not one of these three.

No lol. I have plenty of time to figure it out though

[Black]

What is your mafia experience?

I played a handful of games as a kid and then joined this site last year

[Black]

I don't think I'm going to ever vote Roden today unless he starts scumming it up. Robb is making some questionable arguments. Gypyx is just doing nothing hoping the wagon goes through I guess?

[Black]

If you both can better justify your 180s, I’ll consider what you have to say but neither of you have and not sure if you can.

Do you actually think town can't have fluid reads? I'm having an extremely hard time believing that

[Black]

I had to check the wiki and scum probably have day talk so I don’t see a reason to do a 180, unless it’s for distancing reasons.

How could you check the wiki and still not come away with a definitive answer?

[Black]

I don’t see a reason to do a 180, unless it’s for distancing reasons.

Like I said, townies do 180s all the time. If you don't believe me then I encourage you to read any other game ever run on this forum

[Black]

I do think towns reads can change if there is adequate justification for them to change. I just haven’t seen adequate justification from either of you though.

Then you must not be familiar with me or players that play similarly to me. My reads are very fluid, especially D1

[Black]

Robb ignoring a very provable fact that a) townies play fluid and b) some townies play more fluid than others seems very bad faith to me

[Black]

I do think towns reads can change if there is adequate justification for them to change. I just haven’t seen adequate justification from either of you though.

Then you must not be familiar with me or players that play similarly to me. My reads are very fluid, especially D1

I’m not familiar with you at all. I have trouble believing people can just do a 180 for no reason. I’ve always been like that though.

You keep repeating "for no reason" even though I have shown you my reasons. And if you've always been like this then surely you've been wrong about fluid townies in the past, so if that's true then why would you not learn from that and realize "ok maybe this is NAI"?

[Black]

Robb ignoring a very provable fact that a) townies play fluid and b) some townies play more fluid than others seems very bad faith to me

Not ignoring. Having trouble believing

Do you see anyone disputing the fact that townies play fluid sometimes? That I typically play fluid on D1 as shown in almost every game I've played? That should be an indicator that you're probably wrong about townies not doing 180s

[Black]

I rely on facts/evidence to change my read and also believe others have a good enough reason to change theirs.

You are scumreading me because I don't play like you. If you don't understand the flaw in your logic then I can't help you find me as town

[Black]

The idea that Robb has near 8000 posts and is claiming to have never seen a townie lie about or change day 1 reads very quickly is pretty insane.

Mmhmm

[Black]

I'm not sure if he's scum though. Still trying to figure that out

[Black]

I mean it’s been a while since I’ve last played but I generally don’t accept that town lies and usually scum read those people

Now you are accusing me of lying? Wtf?

[Black]

I rely on facts/evidence to change my read and also believe others have a good enough reason to change theirs.

You are scumreading me because I don't play like you. If you don't understand the flaw in your logic then I can't help you find me as town

That’s not true.

I’m scum reading you because you look the most suspicious on the half wagon. You putting him at e-1 despite looking for scum on their wagon stands out as suspicious to me.

HA's pronouns are she/her

And yeah. This just boils down to you thinking "surely a townie doesn't change their reads so easily" because you don't change your reads easily as town. Your gut feeling is based on the assumptions that townies don't play fluid, and it's an incorrect assumption

[Black]

I can tell this argument is going no where so I'll determine if the bad faith is scummy or not and deal with you later

[Black]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Roden

I'd rather do Gypyx or Robb if we are picking off my wagon

[Black]

Hello people, sorry I have not been playing. Let me go back and read the thread to figure out what is going on.

Hello, did you get anything out of your read?

[Black]

LK why is your townread on me so strong? Is it mostly vibes or what?

[Black]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Roden

I'd rather do Gypyx or Robb if we are picking off my wagon

Can you explain?

I think Roden is the most likely to be town out of the three

[Black]

It's not a super solid read but it's enough to make me not really want to fade there today

[Black]

VOTE: Gypyx

*poke*

Do something

[Black]

Not sure if you two are partnered but I do think there's a good chance at least one of you is scum

[Black]

I don't think my wagon formed naturally. I think there's at least one scum trying to push it through

[Black]

So no accountability on your own actions that make you look scummy? Just flat out OMGUS

I don't think my actions we're scummy, and my vote has nothing to do with OMGUS

You went from town vibes on me to scum because I made “questionable arguments” which

I'm not sure if you've misread my posts or if you are purposely misrepresenting me. Your arguments were questionable yes but I specifically said I wasn't sure if it was coming from scum or not

What if the three of us are all town and just think you’re scummy/scum?

What if scum is in greedy/psych/charles?

These are two possibilities, yes

I was the first vote on you and I’ve not seen anything that makes me think I’m wrong. I keep waiting

Cool

[Black]

You went from town vibes in me, to me making “questionable arguments” to now willing to vote me. That was the progression of your read in me d3. I don’t think I’ve misinterpreted or misrepresented that. Maybe wasn’t as clear as I could have been.

You've already proven that you don't understand fluid reads. I don't expect you to understand someone being fine with fading someone they're not convinced is scum

[Black]

VOTE: Psyche

[Black]

We can always try to pressure him to talk

*cracks knuckles*

[Black]

We can always try to pressure him to talk

*cracks knuckles*

So you want to do this to Psyche and not Charles who has been here from the start????

I think Psyche's slot has been scummier than Charles. I have the feeling Charles just doesn't care about the game. He could be scum but I've seen him play this exact way as town before

[Black]

I asked him a question 24 hours ago and he still hasn't answered. I'm getting more "I'm not around" vibes than lurking scum

[Black]

What do you mean?

[Black]

Yeah that's pretty sus from Charles ngl

I would like to wait for Psyche/Charles to actually play the game before we hammer anything though

[Black]

V/LA until Monday or Tuesday

[Black]

LK and Charles don't make much sense as final scum because neither gain much from bussing Psyche.

I disagree. I think LK's back and forth on Psyche at the end of the day looks pretty bad and I can see newscum thinking it could give more cred than it actually would. And if Psyche was actually inactive in the scum PT and not just tactically lurking in-game then LK might not really know what to do, which would explain pressuring, backing off, and finally pushing it through. I can see 1448 coming from a frustrated partner that is fed up about their buddy being on the brink of elimination after not doing anything for a week

And then there is the weird Rational/LK interactions which I only feel more confident about now. I can go into more detail about this when I get to a PC tomorrow or Tuesday. I think it's just LK but I'm going to re-evaluate everything as soon as I can

[Black]

Please give me until tomorrow before doing anything

[Black]

Meanwhile, the game state is once again dying because no one is allowed to talk

God I love losing momentum after town successfully elims two scum in a row

Why is no one allowed to talk?

[Black]

Regarding no-lim, I'm bad at making decisions like this so I'll just go with the general flow

[Black]

Just because one person told you that you shouldn't? I'm surprised you are just willingly going along with that tbh

[Black]

Like you seem to be frustrated about it but you're not really doing anything to challenge it

[Black]

Idk maybe I missed something? You think Greedy might be scum but you seem to be ok with letting him dictate the pace of the game

[Black]

I guess I shouldn't try to catch up while sick. I saw 1487 and it just seemed a little off but maybe my drug-filled brain is just making stuff up

[Black]

My case on LK is gonna have to wait but if anyone has spare time they can look through my ISO and find most of it. I think the way Rational treated LK's intent to hammer HA is pretty scummy. He voted for me because in his mind it didn't make sense for me to vote HA, but when LK declared intent to hammer (after constantly refusing to vote anyone) Rational didn't bat an eye

[Black]

I want to vote between LK/Gypyx I think

[Black]

hmmm

[Black]

Greedy you do know you fucked up by saying it's anti-town to discuss reads only to then discuss your reads after you get called out for scummy behavior, right?

This is exactly what I was thinking

[Black]

There are too many scummy people this is not good

[Black]

I'm going to do some thinking tonight and figure out which one of LK/Gypyx/Greedy I want here

[Black]

honestly this game is kinda fucked, we really don't have a lot to work with

We just faded 2 scum in a row. This defeatism doesn't feel right