Mini Normal 2324: Fake Fantasy Facts | Postgame

[FuDuzn]

first!!
VOTE: lucca261
Chrono Trigger is a good game

Yes, first to die

VOTE: Gamma

[FuDuzn]

VOTE: DragonEater70

This draconian leader must be overthrown! Anarchy must reign!!!

I do agree with this after we kill Gamma

[FuDuzn]

VOTE: Alianna
I am familiar with 2 players in this game

Then don't vote Alianna

[FuDuzn]

Hi.

I like your entrance the best.

You are town.

[FuDuzn]

you were the reason I joined FuDuzn, so the immediate hostility is disheartening

I don't believe you, why would I be the reason you joined?

[FuDuzn]

because I like playing with folks that I haven't played with before, especially if they have older join dates

Lol, I haven't played a game since 2014....so be gentle

[FuDuzn]

VOTE: Alianna
nowhere did I say I wanted to yeet FuDuzn.

I don't remember if I thought you said that, but I probably did misread you. I have not really been paying attention to whether my RVS jokeposting makes any sense.

Why are you so concerned whether your RVS posting makes sense?

[FuDuzn]

I want to work together with them and FD rn

Ok let's put in some work.

What do you make of Alianna?

[FuDuzn]

I feel like Clap is a bit too aggressive too early to be scum here

[FuDuzn]

I feel like Clap is a bit too aggressive too early to be scum here

What do you think of Margot?

Was trying to parse 79 as we speak here, feels a bit manufactured......if that makes sense

[FuDuzn]

In my head I voted for Margot, saw the last VC and saw I was still RVSing Gamma.

Let's change that shall we?

VOTE: Margot

[FuDuzn]

I hope Alianna comes back soon though, I want to talk to her, not a fan tbh.

Clap I feel is town, Gamma and Hu have me a bit paranoid since they seemed so trusting on me so quickly, but nothing of their posting besides that seems 'that' bad.

I do want to want to give the N00bs some room to breath(hello pot me kettle, I am basically a N00bs here as well), but when I am home on my computer I will give them a more thorough looking over. I don't want to give scum an excuse to play the N00bs card too much.

Upward though gives me town vibes, I don't feel N00bs scum comes in like that.

[FuDuzn]

I hope Alianna comes back soon though, I want to talk to her, not a fan tbh.

Clap I feel is town, Gamma and Hu have me a bit paranoid since they seemed so trusting on me so quickly, but nothing of their posting besides that seems 'that' bad.

I do want to want to give the N00bs some room to breath(hello pot me kettle, I am basically a N00bs here as well), but when I am home on my computer I will give them a more thorough looking over. I don't want to give scum an excuse to play the N00bs card too much.

Upward though gives me town vibes, I don't feel N00bs scum comes in like that.

Let's just ignore the typos, mkay?

[FuDuzn]

I hope Alianna comes back soon though, I want to talk to her, not a fan tbh.

I just opened this thread, not caught up yet but what did you want to talk about?

What do you make of Hu and Gamma seemingly following me blindly?

I also get a vibe from your posts that you are trying to seem genuine, yet somehow seem fake.

I just want more from you to get a better feel for you(again, focusing on those who seem more like veterans of this site lol).

It is weird feeling like the elder statesman here though.

[FuDuzn]

that's one way to interpret what we're doing

Bad choice of words, more you two accepting me as town so quickly.

I tended to get scum read back in the day, feels weird lol

[FuDuzn]

his questions don't feel like they're meant to corral the game into a certain position rn
plus: townblock of 2 + townblock of 2 = townblock of 4 (this also goes for my hu tao read, I think this is a more succinct way to express my early idea I expressed)

Wait, who else is in the town block now?

[FuDuzn]

his questions don't feel like they're meant to corral the game into a certain position rn
plus: townblock of 2 + townblock of 2 = townblock of 4 (this also goes for my hu tao read, I think this is a more succinct way to express my early idea I expressed)

Wait, who else is in the town block now?

Oh Gyp? I can vibe with that.

I kinda vibe with Clap more, but tomato tomato I guess

[FuDuzn]

I'm opening up the old sublime text Mafia notes templates again. What a time to be alive.

Only vibe leans atm are Gypyx as town and Claptastik as Scum, but they are purely on vibes based on early d1 behaviour, and tells are almost always useless, esp. as you two seem to have been playing for ages.

Feck... I'm a baby here....

Please be gentle. So if I think so someone's spouting crap I should say so?

I'd strongly advise you to check out the guides about townplay that we have on the mafiascum wiki, they're way more insightful than what anyone here could reasonably say

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... y_Articles

And why specifically the townplay guides? This looks TMI-ish.
Though 39 does suggest you're aware of the info difference between town and scum, so it'd be kind of weird if you did actually TMI-slip and then

that

was your next post. Hmmmmmmmm, you can be a townlean for now (probably will have to check my logic tomorrow because it's getting pretty late and my brain is fried). I'm still interested in the answer to that question though.

Like, this gives town vibes just because it's the kind of non-committal, but still roughly reasoned out thinking I'd expect, whereas #66, #68 and #70 feel a bit more accusatory? Just feels off for the first 24 hours of the first day.

E: tag fix

aaaah yes, agressive = scum and nice = town

clap certainely feels like town motivated agression here, can't tell if Margot has got her radar calibrated on the complete opposite of mine or if she's just scum afraid of a proactive townie

and while this got me thinking about it, i gotta say the Alianna post in question looks pretty bad to me? Like, it's *extremely* reasonable, and non-antagonizing immediatly afterwards, almost like the main worry is making sure i don't get angry about it

Not TRing Margot, but I like that you brought up the radar thing because that's something I've noticed myself doing as town (as in, committing the fallacy that Margot is committing) and have been trying to "un-calibrate" myself from, and I've also been wrongly scumread by people who I now realize were calibrated the other way.

I wasn't worried about that at all, so I'm having trouble seeing where you're getting that from. I doubled back on the ping I got from 38 because I realized it was most likely wrong. It would probably be easier to respond to this if you elaborated on what in the post gave you that impression.

I get where Gyp is coming from, I put it a different way but it does seem like you are trying to be too 'agreeable'.

Kind of the opposite how I town read Clap because I don't think they would be too aggressive, like scum would be more careful early game......I feel like you are so worried about the optics of what you are doing more than the content itself.

[FuDuzn]

Looking through everyone else now, I kinda feel like I recognize Delta, did we ever play back in the day?

"Mafia is multitasking by default."

What does this mean?

Also hi

Hi.

I like your entrance the best.

You are town.

Thank you. I will blindly trust this and say you're town too!

VOTE: Hu Tao

kinda wanna say this comes from scum? Like, there's a bit of a "oh god i gotta appear towny" in those words imho
"blindly" also sounds hyperaware of the lack of info a townie would normally have

Hu Tao's post sounds like the kind of thing a townie would say tbf

And I forgot they were even in this game, two whole posts not really adding anything. Hopefully they get this notification and post more

[FuDuzn]

Let's goooo. I'm here to get killed day 1 again and chew bubblegum.

And I'm all out of gum

I appreciate the humor right out of the gate, and somewhat of a They Live reference.....love that movie, town points.

VOTE: MargotRosa

Anyways wanna vote a slot that's been weirdly shy about things?

VOTE: MargotRosa
I somewhat agree with this idea. I think she’s just been not present but wouldn’t mind leaving her a little present on her return

I'm down with this vote (despite only having 2 posts myself)
VOTE: MargotRosa

Not many reads yet. HT and Aliana feel towny. Upwards has the tryhard poat that feels nai from a newbie. Deltawave having no comment on my vote also feels a little scummy.

But all those town points go away for this opportunistic vote on Margot here, especially since right after that they don't mention Margot in their reads(I thought maybe it was a joke vote, but Gyp's vote seemed serious to me). So some scum pings I am getting from Lap.

[FuDuzn]

fuck, missed on RVS

I'll just pretend nothing of note happened and VOTE: Upwards

fuck, missed on RVS

I'll just pretend nothing of note happened and VOTE: Upwards

How about you don't pretend it's still RVS and come play the game with us my friend

pretending it's still RVS is more fun though and even the mod's using an avatar that takes me back to 2017 (I think) shitposting

to be fair, I read the game again and jumped at nothing

at most I think FD looks towny enough

Whole lotta null here, if anything would like to hear why I am 'towny enough'

[FuDuzn]

initial gut feelings : claptastik and Hu town

While I definitely agree about Clap, why Hu as well?

My brain says null hear, but kinda feel a scum je nais se quois from nae here

[FuDuzn]

VOTE: DragonEater70

This draconian leader must be overthrown! Anarchy must reign!!!

Creating fake dragon facts are encouraged. Deciding the leader of the dragons is a cannibal is a bad fact.

VOTE: Alianna

It's not a bad fact if it's true!

So you admit that it's either a bad fact, or a bad fake fact.........

I mean what is this about? From either angle it seems like a "let's attack here as I have nothing better to do" sort of thing ?

Cuz I can't see Anything other than that

Feck... I'm a baby here....

Please be gentle. So if I think so someone's spouting crap I should say so?

I'd strongly advise you to check out the guides about townplay that we have on the mafiascum wiki, they're way more insightful than what anyone here could reasonably say

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... y_Articles

And why specifically the townplay guides? This looks TMI-ish.
Though 39 does suggest you're aware of the info difference between town and scum, so it'd be kind of weird if you did actually TMI-slip and then

that

was your next post. Hmmmmmmmm, you can be a townlean for now (probably will have to check my logic tomorrow because it's getting pretty late and my brain is fried). I'm still interested in the answer to that question though.

Yeah I read the post and thought, how does they know I'm town? I thought it was only a thing scums would know...

These two posts from Zeb just scream town to me, feels like their reactions here are so genuine and pure. We may have an apprentice to our townblocc.

Alright, that was a quick run through of everyone I haven't really been paying attention to lol

[FuDuzn]

I hope Alianna comes back soon though, I want to talk to her, not a fan tbh.

I just opened this thread, not caught up yet but what did you want to talk about?

What do you make of Hu and Gamma seemingly following me blindly?

Hu's read on you kind of reminds me of their townread on KittyTacky in the last game we played, in that the strength of the townread seems disproportionate to the strength of the reasons they've given for it. They definitely did it to a greater extent in the other game, but I'm still going to call it +town.
I should probably check if they also do that as scum, but I don't feel like metadiving right now.
I can see Gamma's explanation in 136.

I also get a vibe from your posts that you are trying to seem genuine, yet somehow seem fake.

I just want more from you to get a better feel for you(again, focusing on those who seem more like veterans of this site lol).

It is weird feeling like the elder statesman here though.

I definitely would not consider myself a veteran XD.

suppose I should probably link the game

I took a decade off and still almost have as many posts as you, so maybe you are just a n00b as well(jk, again.....I am learning how to walk again as well lol)

But maybe this is just what Hu does, I guess I am just too paranoid about being locked as town so early

[FuDuzn]

Also, I swear I remember the name Boonskies, their join date was right before I kinda site flaked

[FuDuzn]

fuck, missed on RVS

I'll just pretend nothing of note happened and VOTE: Upwards

fuck, missed on RVS

I'll just pretend nothing of note happened and VOTE: Upwards

How about you don't pretend it's still RVS and come play the game with us my friend

pretending it's still RVS is more fun though and even the mod's using an avatar that takes me back to 2017 (I think) shitposting

to be fair, I read the game again and jumped at nothing

at most I think FD looks towny enough

Whole lotta null here, if anything would like to hear why I am 'towny enough'

I'm still not caught up yet and I'm fairly burnt out from work today but if I'm reading that last post by lucca correctly I don't think it's null. I don't really like going from "here's my RVS vote!" to "ohhh to be fair I was too hasty now that I read the game." It's an RVS vote, it doesn't have to make sense. Why backpedal on it so quickly.

I kinda of read it as as nothing about the game jumped out to them, except that I am town for 'reasons'.

I will say though, them saying that they basically have no reads, then making a read(a read of which was already becoming a consensus at that point), is pretty suss as I read it again

[FuDuzn]

I'm opening up the old sublime text Mafia notes templates again. What a time to be alive.

Only vibe leans atm are Gypyx as town and Claptastik as Scum, but they are purely on vibes based on early d1 behaviour, and tells are almost always useless, esp. as you two seem to have been playing for ages.

Feck... I'm a baby here....

Please be gentle. So if I think so someone's spouting crap I should say so?

I'd strongly advise you to check out the guides about townplay that we have on the mafiascum wiki, they're way more insightful than what anyone here could reasonably say

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... y_Articles

And why specifically the townplay guides? This looks TMI-ish.
Though 39 does suggest you're aware of the info difference between town and scum, so it'd be kind of weird if you did actually TMI-slip and then

that

was your next post. Hmmmmmmmm, you can be a townlean for now (probably will have to check my logic tomorrow because it's getting pretty late and my brain is fried). I'm still interested in the answer to that question though.

Like, this gives town vibes just because it's the kind of non-committal, but still roughly reasoned out thinking I'd expect, whereas #66, #68 and #70 feel a bit more accusatory? Just feels off for the first 24 hours of the first day.

E: tag fix

aaaah yes, agressive = scum and nice = town

clap certainely feels like town motivated agression here, can't tell if Margot has got her radar calibrated on the complete opposite of mine or if she's just scum afraid of a proactive townie

and while this got me thinking about it, i gotta say the Alianna post in question looks pretty bad to me? Like, it's *extremely* reasonable, and non-antagonizing immediatly afterwards, almost like the main worry is making sure i don't get angry about it

Not TRing Margot, but I like that you brought up the radar thing because that's something I've noticed myself doing as town (as in, committing the fallacy that Margot is committing) and have been trying to "un-calibrate" myself from, and I've also been wrongly scumread by people who I now realize were calibrated the other way.

I wasn't worried about that at all, so I'm having trouble seeing where you're getting that from. I doubled back on the ping I got from 38 because I realized it was most likely wrong. It would probably be easier to respond to this if you elaborated on what in the post gave you that impression.

I get where Gyp is coming from, I put it a different way but it does seem like you are trying to be too 'agreeable'.

Kind of the opposite how I town read Clap because I don't think they would be too aggressive, like scum would be more careful early game......I feel like you are so worried about the optics of what you are doing more than the content itself.

I've received quite a few accusations like that, but only when I'm town (iirc anyway).
I get weird vibes off this but idk if there's anything to it.

Weird in what way?

[FuDuzn]

It sounds to me like lucca got some backlash from gypyx for what was legitimately an odd post #71 and then immediately backpedaled it. If it's really an RVS vote then who cares. That's what the R means. Then lucca pegged you as town in #78. You get more friends by calling people town, especially early on. If you put this sequence of events together, the problem is evident.

So if I am picking up what you are putting down, you think Lucca is scum?

[FuDuzn]

Votecount 1.03

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2024-01-14 01:13:22).

Votecount

MargotRosa (4):

Gypyx, Gamma Emerald, Laplacian, FuDuzn

Upwards (2):

lucca261, Hu Tao

Gamma Emerald (1):

Alianna

Alianna (1):

Naerys

Margot (1):

Claptastik

Not Voting (4):

Upwards, Zebedee, DeltaWave, MargotRosa

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to send someone on the fast route to the afterlife.

flavor

Dragon Fact #4:

While often depicted as cruel and beastly monsters, dragons are actually highly intelligent, and have a better grasp on science than most humans. In fact, dragons invented modern computers!

Uhh, what is going on with Clap's vote haha

[FuDuzn]

VOTE: Lucca

[FuDuzn]

Hot take but people should be allowed to switch up their playstyle

They are allowed. And other people are allowed to question such switches.

it especially gets less worth as a meta read here cause Gamma is making a conscious effort to switch up how she plays rather than failing to reproduce her town meta

Maybe she's making that conscious effort

because

she has difficulty reproducing her town meta as scum.

Gyp still does seem so towny, not loving this take from Clap though

I'm on that weird path where I kinda think my only scumread so far is Upwards for

@91

.

Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post.

Too non-commital, too agreeable. This paragraph in particular:

So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.

I mean, this looks a lot like newbscum to me.

Why exactly should I be paranoid, and of what? Don’t really get your point here.

The thing is: if you are town here, it's very likely that scum will try to use your status as a new player to advance their game. Not in a "I'm evil, kill all the newbies" way, but maybe by buddying you, maybe by trying to use you as elimbait, stuff like this.

Being so open on your opening post, even asking people to correct you? I see newb!town would be a little more wary, especially on a game like this with several very experienced players.

Keep in mind this is a early D1 read, so it's not final or decisive in any way. But it's something that pinged me early game.

My first reaction to this was a buddy talking to a buddy, kind of a tinfoily take but I wanted it out there to see if someone else agrees, of I am just seeing something that isn't there.

At the bottom of page 6. Will post vibes from here and keep going after a bit of a break.

Town leans:
- GammaEmerald - Liked their vote for me the most out of all of them. Feels like the work of a fairly proactive townie to gain info for reads based on responses, which I vibe with
- Laplacian - Based mostly on 119. I didn't like Hu Tao's vote for Upward at 101, for fairly similar reasons expressed there.
- Gypyx can stay for now as well.

Very slight scum lean from FuDuzn. 127 seems like their reads are grasps that don't have much weight behind them. This is only more so by the "genuine but fake" read on Gamma in 131. No post refs, just vibes. There's also alot of filler, like in 143, first half of 144, and the second half of 144, 145 and 146 feel like boosting post count more than anything well thought out or solid.

Back in halfa.

You are correct, it wasn't anything really well thought out, I was just quickly going through the iso's of people I haven't really had an opinion on yet. Wasn't meant to be a set in stone super solid list of reads or anything.

Also I wasn't trying to boost post count, it is just easier for me to make a separate post for each iso instead of one giant post containing all of them(plus personally I hate giant wall posts)

[FuDuzn]

I'm on that weird path where I kinda think my only scumread so far is Upwards for

@91

.

Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post.

Too non-commital, too agreeable. This paragraph in particular:

So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.

I mean, this looks a lot like newbscum to me.

Why exactly should I be paranoid, and of what? Don’t really get your point here.

The thing is: if you are town here, it's very likely that scum will try to use your status as a new player to advance their game. Not in a "I'm evil, kill all the newbies" way, but maybe by buddying you, maybe by trying to use you as elimbait, stuff like this.

Being so open on your opening post, even asking people to correct you? I see newb!town would be a little more wary, especially on a game like this with several very experienced players.

Keep in mind this is a early D1 read, so it's not final or decisive in any way. But it's something that pinged me early game.

My first reaction to this was a buddy talking to a buddy, kind of a tinfoily take but I wanted it out there to see if someone else agrees, of I am just seeing something that isn't there.

Yeah i can totally see it, although i also agree this feels quite tinfoil-ish, think we keep this in mind for if we manage to flip one of them as scum?

I don't like talking buddies until a scum is flipped per se, but as you put it an interesting possible interaction in the case one of them does flip scum.

[FuDuzn]

I'm on that weird path where I kinda think my only scumread so far is Upwards for

@91

.

Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post.

Too non-commital, too agreeable. This paragraph in particular:

So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.

I mean, this looks a lot like newbscum to me.

Why exactly should I be paranoid, and of what? Don’t really get your point here.

The thing is: if you are town here, it's very likely that scum will try to use your status as a new player to advance their game. Not in a "I'm evil, kill all the newbies" way, but maybe by buddying you, maybe by trying to use you as elimbait, stuff like this.

Being so open on your opening post, even asking people to correct you? I see newb!town would be a little more wary, especially on a game like this with several very experienced players.

Keep in mind this is a early D1 read, so it's not final or decisive in any way. But it's something that pinged me early game.

My first reaction to this was a buddy talking to a buddy, kind of a tinfoily take but I wanted it out there to see if someone else agrees, of I am just seeing something that isn't there.

Actually I can see it funnily enough, especially with that last paragraph being potentially usable as a setup to justify changing course in the future. Thing is, town might just as well make this post and I have it on good sources that I am not the buddy of anyone.

Lol, don't be lying to me now

But I will say it was more about Lucca than you

[FuDuzn]

Just re-read some stuff and feel confident adding Margot to my town pile so far.

Her stuff seems natural. I like the contrarian reads. Feel like scum!Margot would have more defined reads by now.

@230

feels pretty good, even if I do not agree with most of it.
Still not loving Laplacian.

So FD, since you are active, why are you voting me again?

I wanted reactions to it, especially after Delta basically said you were scummy, but couldn't actually say the words, which seemed weird to me.

Are you concerned with my vote on you?

[FuDuzn]

bloop

I have noticed people go nuts for page tops nowadays lol

[FuDuzn]

Just re-read some stuff and feel confident adding Margot to my town pile so far.

Her stuff seems natural. I like the contrarian reads. Feel like scum!Margot would have more defined reads by now.

@230

feels pretty good, even if I do not agree with most of it.
Still not loving Laplacian.

So FD, since you are active, why are you voting me again?

Also, why would you feel like scumMargot would have more defined reads?

[FuDuzn]

Just re-read some stuff and feel confident adding Margot to my town pile so far.

Her stuff seems natural. I like the contrarian reads. Feel like scum!Margot would have more defined reads by now.

@230

feels pretty good, even if I do not agree with most of it.
Still not loving Laplacian.

So FD, since you are active, why are you voting me again?

I wanted reactions to it, especially after Delta basically said you were scummy, but couldn't actually say the words, which seemed weird to me.

Are you concerned with my vote on you?

Sure. You're sending mixed signals to me, right on the middle of null. There's a good possibility you're town, yet you're voting me

if you're town and voting me I'm doing something wrong
if you're scum and voting me I could use the reasoning for posterity

Always concerning

In a world where you are town, you do realize town will vote town quite a bit, right?

And every vote has a purpose, even if it isn't clear at the time(even when scum place a vote)

But you wanted an explanation for my vote on you, I explained, yet you still seem so concerned with my one vote.

I feel like scum would be more defensive like this since they need something to defend against, while town should be more concerned about letting their actions speak for themselves, if that makes sense.

[FuDuzn]

Just re-read some stuff and feel confident adding Margot to my town pile so far.

Her stuff seems natural. I like the contrarian reads. Feel like scum!Margot would have more defined reads by now.

@230

feels pretty good, even if I do not agree with most of it.
Still not loving Laplacian.

So FD, since you are active, why are you voting me again?

Also, why would you feel like scumMargot would have more defined reads?

Quick meta read shows me Margot is a very decisive player both as town and scum. Firm reads, firm stances.

The amount of townreads and lack of serious scumreads so far shows me that she's struggling to form solid reads (as I am on several slots). Makes me think she's town.

Spoiler:

viewtopic.php?p=13010742#p13010742 - Her first reads list as scum on Newbie 2079.
viewtopic.php?p=13040294#p13040294 - Her first reads list as town on Newbie 2080.
viewtopic.php?p=12940763#p12940763 - Her first reads list as town on Newbie 2076.
viewtopic.php?p=13006521#p13006521 - Her first reads list as town on Mini Normal 2239.

I don't see a lot of waffling here. Sure, there's almost a two year-break. But there's certainly more indecisiveness. Feel like she would be more confident as scum, even after a break.

But if she is decisive as either alignment, and you feel she isn't decisive here, wouldn't that be NAI?

[FuDuzn]

Lucca, what are you feeling about Clap right about now?

[FuDuzn]

I'm beginning to feel a little more confident in my scum lean on FD.

Spoiler:

Hot take but people should be allowed to switch up their playstyle

They are allowed. And other people are allowed to question such switches.

it especially gets less worth as a meta read here cause Gamma is making a conscious effort to switch up how she plays rather than failing to reproduce her town meta

Maybe she's making that conscious effort

because

she has difficulty reproducing her town meta as scum.

Gyp still does seem so towny, not loving this take from Clap though

I'm on that weird path where I kinda think my only scumread so far is Upwards for

@91

.

Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post.

Too non-commital, too agreeable. This paragraph in particular:

So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.

I mean, this looks a lot like newbscum to me.

Why exactly should I be paranoid, and of what? Don’t really get your point here.

The thing is: if you are town here, it's very likely that scum will try to use your status as a new player to advance their game. Not in a "I'm evil, kill all the newbies" way, but maybe by buddying you, maybe by trying to use you as elimbait, stuff like this.

Being so open on your opening post, even asking people to correct you? I see newb!town would be a little more wary, especially on a game like this with several very experienced players.

Keep in mind this is a early D1 read, so it's not final or decisive in any way. But it's something that pinged me early game.

My first reaction to this was a buddy talking to a buddy, kind of a tinfoily take but I wanted it out there to see if someone else agrees, of I am just seeing something that isn't there.

At the bottom of page 6. Will post vibes from here and keep going after a bit of a break.

Town leans:
- GammaEmerald - Liked their vote for me the most out of all of them. Feels like the work of a fairly proactive townie to gain info for reads based on responses, which I vibe with
- Laplacian - Based mostly on 119. I didn't like Hu Tao's vote for Upward at 101, for fairly similar reasons expressed there.
- Gypyx can stay for now as well.

Very slight scum lean from FuDuzn. 127 seems like their reads are grasps that don't have much weight behind them. This is only more so by the "genuine but fake" read on Gamma in 131. No post refs, just vibes. There's also alot of filler, like in 143, first half of 144, and the second half of 144, 145 and 146 feel like boosting post count more than anything well thought out or solid.

Back in halfa.

You are correct, it wasn't anything really well thought out, I was just quickly going through the iso's of people I haven't really had an opinion on yet. Wasn't meant to be a set in stone super solid list of reads or anything.

Also I wasn't trying to boost post count, it is just easier for me to make a separate post for each iso instead of one giant post containing all of them(plus personally I hate giant wall posts)

This post was a red flag. The first and third comments feel like, and second comment explicitly is, fishing to see if someone is willing to join in on a vote, which feels scummy to me. Also breaks from the usual train up to that point of single quotes and multiple topic divided posts, which given that it's a reaction to my scum lean, indicates some jumpiness at suspicion.

That latter point was supported more by the fact that most posts by FD since are in direct response to questioning, save two:
- 252, which is either unrelated levity, or a conscious attempt to inject a positive tone into posting.
- 244, which is what prompted lucca to ask FD why they made the comment, and started the train of defences:

251, 254 which looks more like an attempted deflection than anything else, 257, 262, and immediately after another deflection with 263.

251 and 263 play into the impression that I'm getting of a scum looking to test wagons people might be willing to jump onto.

My vote isn't parked anywhere, so I'm going to put it here for now.

VOTE: FuDuzn

Wut?

You literally just went through my most recent posts and said they are all clearly scummy lol

I feel like you are working backwards here

[FuDuzn]

Okay here we go.

I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.

On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.

I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.

The thing is, it is super easy for scum to seem superficially towny for calling out the town blocc thing(in a world where Gamma is town)

Personally I am going back and forth on Gamma and Clap, thought Clap was clearly town early on but lately I almost feel like they are being exposed

[FuDuzn]

Okay here we go.

I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.

On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.

I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.

The thing is, it is super easy for scum to seem superficially towny for calling out the town blocc thing(in a world where Gamma is town)

Personally I am going back and forth on Gamma and Clap, thought Clap was clearly town early on but lately I almost feel like they are being exposed

Ooh look at me all page top(cue Margot finding this scummy for.....reasons??)

[FuDuzn]

It's a lean with reasoning backing up my reads, yeah.

I already said I had a slight scum read, and when I came back, your posts fit into a playstyle I see as scum-leaning, which solidified it.

Can you elaborate exactly how any of the posts I made that you linked to are scummy and not, ya know, how I play the game?

Like seriously saying me making a joke about the page top is scummy???

Like I said, I feel like you are being wildly disingenuous here. There is no world where you find everything I do as actually scummy.

[FuDuzn]

Lucca, can we talk about Margot more?

But in secret this time lol

Pre edit: I am trying to gauge other's opinions on you(like asking Lucca earlier), like I said I had you as solidly town earlier but am doubting that read now.

And I have said I don't love how Gamma and Hu were so quick to town read me, but nothing really jumps out to me as scummy about Gamma besides that

[FuDuzn]

^^The pre Edit was directed at Clap, if not clear

[FuDuzn]

It's a lean with reasoning backing up my reads, yeah.

I already said I had a slight scum read, and when I came back, your posts fit into a playstyle I see as scum-leaning, which solidified it.

Can you elaborate exactly how any of the posts I made that you linked to are scummy and not, ya know, how I play the game?

Like seriously saying me making a joke about the page top is scummy???

Like I said, I feel like you are being wildly disingenuous here. There is no world where you find everything I do as actually scummy.

I didn't find everything you did scummy. I just gave some possible worst faith interpretations of what you said, which is often how I play the game, so I can reason through which of those worst faith interpretations are actually worth taking seriously.

I'm going to gestate, and do some further research. I'm also in the process of forming my full read list, which is difficult as many people haven't posted all that much, but should it have posted in the next couple days. Going to gf's dad's birthday in a few hours and then catching up on needed sleep, so may be a bit inactive in the interim

You have used the possible worst faith interpretations, as you put it, and used it to push me as scum......without considering any other interpretation of my posts.

That is not how town would act

Lucca, no need to talk more, thank you for our dance we had.....maybe we will dance again soon, but time to get actual scum

VOTE: Margot

Back to this(although as someone who is town reading Margot, I would like your interpretation of this back and forth with me and her.....Lucca)

[FuDuzn]

Pre edit: I am trying to gauge other's opinions on you(like asking Lucca earlier), like I said I had you as solidly town earlier but am doubting that read now.

^^The pre Edit was directed at Clap, if not clear

It seems like you're admitting to Margot's charge that you're fishing for support for a wagon rather than just pushing, but acting like that's a townie thing to do. It isn't, particularly on D1.

UNVOTE:

No, I am trying to figure out if you are town since I have my doubts now. I like other people opinions since I don't want to hang on to a stale read. And getting people to openly talk about reads holds people accountable for what they said and will expose those who are being disingenuous.

I will try to talk to everyone in this game at some point if I can because of that.

And if Margot is town and I was scum, I just would have stayed on her initially, she was at E-2, why would I leave to naked vote Lucca?

[FuDuzn]

Quick meta read shows me Margot is a very decisive player both as town and scum. Firm reads, firm stances.

Yeah I looked at her earlier today and found the same thing.

What games of hers in particular led you to believe this?

[FuDuzn]

I do like how spicy this game is starting to get

I have missed this place lol

[FuDuzn]

Quick meta read shows me Margot is a very decisive player both as town and scum. Firm reads, firm stances.

Yeah I looked at her earlier today and found the same thing.

What games of hers in particular led you to believe this?

Newbie 2080 she was town. Check out 284 and 285 - reasoned and ordered reads list, much different from her play here.

Mini Normal 2239 she was scum. See post 199 - looks like 284 in the town game.

You realize that you just said that her town game in 2080 is much different than here?

[FuDuzn]

Okay here we go.

I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.

On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.

I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.

this is surface level analysis
Regardless of my alignment I think calling my townblock out is an easy thing to do as scum. This seems less like a real thought process and more like reflexively giving townpoints to player who’ve criticized me.

I literally just said the same thing in regards to Upwards post.

[FuDuzn]

Personally I am going back and forth on Gamma and Clap, thought Clap was clearly town early on but lately I almost feel like they are being exposed

Do you mean you're going back and forth on each of us individually, or are you saying you're fairly certain we're TvS, and going back and forth on which is T and which is S?

I actually lean that this is TvT

[FuDuzn]

Quick meta read shows me Margot is a very decisive player both as town and scum. Firm reads, firm stances.

Yeah I looked at her earlier today and found the same thing.

What games of hers in particular led you to believe this?

Newbie 2080 she was town. Check out 284 and 285 - reasoned and ordered reads list, much different from her play here.

Mini Normal 2239 she was scum. See post 199 - looks like 284 in the town game.

You realize that you just said that her town game in 2080 is much different than here?

Yes.

You realize I'm also saying her scum game is much different than here? Both are more active and decisive.

So, it stands to reason that she hasn't had time to fully engage with this game yet, right?

Yet she had the time to pick apart my posts in a pretty decisive manner.

[FuDuzn]

He's voting you...

VOTE: margot

Tbf he voted lucca and then claimed it was to get reactions.

Yes exactly, and then switched back to Margot after her most recent posts.

Do I need to iso myself to thoroughly explain each post to you and Margot?

[FuDuzn]

You and gypyx.

Yours?

You and gypyx.

Yours?

You and FuDuzn

It does seem that organically everyone is coming to Gyp as town, or at least a good chunk of us.

[FuDuzn]

I am actually really liking Lucca for town after ^this post.

Had a really long day, when I am home I will post a bit more, just relaxing with a beer or two right now

[FuDuzn]

I am actually really liking Lucca for town after ^this post.

As you've been asking his opinion on things I thought you've liked Lucca for town for some time now.

Quite the opposite if you read most of the back and forth between us yesterday.

Part of how I figure someone out is asking what there opinion is on someone or some situation.

As I said before, the more you can get someone to speak the less they can hide behind. I was feeling better after Lucca and I had our back and forth, but the post I was referencing just now really screamed town to me, coupled with the post he made referencing my read on Margot's read on me.

[FuDuzn]

Gamma likes the 1v1 with the newbie.

?

I think town tends to just shrug off a push from a newbie. Scum tend to like getting into it with a newbie that's pushing them, as they may come out looking better from it.

Do you think I’m just trying to scrap? If so you’re sorely mistaken.

I am disliking many of Clap's takes as of late, but what do you think the motivation is behind them?

I can't really figure him out.

[FuDuzn]

I’m questioning that myself too; feel like he should be doing something more here regarding me given a game just wrapped that we were both in

Oh, how so?

[FuDuzn]

Wdym how so?

Why would the other game affect what how he interacts with you?

[FuDuzn]

Wdym how so?

Why would the other game affect what how he interacts with you?

Pretend the what doesn't exist lol

[FuDuzn]

Wdym how so?

Why would the other game affect what how he interacts with you?

I (well, my slot) flipped scum there and I think that would likely color his approach to me once that was revealed

Ok, what if he still feels you are scum here after that game?

Not sure what you are implying here

[FuDuzn]

I am disliking many of Clap's takes as of late, but what do you think the motivation is behind them?

I can't really figure him out.

What don't you like? Why not ask me about it?

My main take of late is that Gamma is scummy. She said it's easy to call her out as scummy, so she understands that she's playing in an apparently scummy manner.

So, what's wrong with me pushing Gamma?

Nothing wrong at all, did you not read my earlier response to your post asking why I ask others their opinions?

OK, I misunderstood the reference.

That's fine. Overall my town read on you still stands because of everything else. But this goes to show that sometimes you can just misread a thread- which is how this whole line of conversation started, with my mistake on Lucca's post.

VOTE: Gamma,

but I would unvote if Gamma got to E-1

. I still want to get more information out of Alianna's replacement and to get some more activity in general going from people who are lower in the post counts. I'd also like Zeb to explain his vote, which seemed to come out of nowhere, and which made me think some things that I'll share after he explains.

Let's vote out delta please

Ya that was bad, voting can be used for pressure and such, but you also should be under the assumption that your vote may lead to that person's lim as well.

And while not a fan of a quick hammer, I understand Hu's sentiment here I think.

[FuDuzn]

If gamma gets to e-1 I'm quick hammering

I have a question for you: what do you think this is going to accomplish?

Potentially eliminating scum

are you sure about that? do you think announcing it increases the odds of that happening?

Seems as if the Town Blocc is falling apart

At least I feel like I have one town buddy that came from it

Any guesses on who?

[FuDuzn]

Can you fuckers stop immediately assuming I am leaning towards suspecting someone when I ask them a question? It’s happened three times now I think

Am I one of the fuckers?

Ironically enough I have been been questioned this game quite a but when I ask questions.....but it seems we interpret the intent a bit differently.

I mean, I will agree with(Clap I believe it was?) that you have a distinct lack of scum reads......even your vote on lurkyNae seems like a safe place to lock a vote on.

I guess I just spoilered who I think isn't town in the Town Blocc though

[FuDuzn]

Can you fuckers stop immediately assuming I am leaning towards suspecting someone when I ask them a question? It’s happened three times now I think

Am I one of the fuckers?

Ironically enough I have been been questioned this game quite a but when I ask questions.....but it seems we interpret the intent a bit differently.

I mean, I will agree with(Clap I believe it was?) that you have a distinct lack of scum reads......even your vote on lurkyNae seems like a safe place to lock a vote on.

I guess I just spoilered who I think isn't town in the Town Blocc though

Are there other reasons than Nae being quiet behind the scum read?

Is this directed towards me or Gamma?

[FuDuzn]

Upwards - towny
Naerys - towny
Claptastik - towny
lucca261 -??
FuDuzn - town
Gamma Emerald - leaning sus
Laplacian - towny
Zebedee - ???
Gypyx - Leaning slightly towny
MargotRosa - scummy
DeltaWave - scummy
Alianna - ????

This is where I am right now. I usually don't have this many reads to start so something could be wrong.

I had Margot scummy at the time because of a post but looking back it wasn't as bad as I thought. I'd put her in ???? Tier right now I think.

Which post were you concerned by out of curiousity?

The one I voted you

That seems like a flippant response

Are you just annoyed at the question?

[FuDuzn]

Can you fuckers stop immediately assuming I am leaning towards suspecting someone when I ask them a question? It’s happened three times now I think

Am I one of the fuckers?

Ironically enough I have been been questioned this game quite a but when I ask questions.....but it seems we interpret the intent a bit differently.

I mean, I will agree with(Clap I believe it was?) that you have a distinct lack of scum reads......even your vote on lurkyNae seems like a safe place to lock a vote on.

I guess I just spoilered who I think isn't town in the Town Blocc though

Are there other reasons than Nae being quiet behind the scum read?

Is this directed towards me or Gamma?

Towards you

A scum read might be too strong of a phrasing, but like I said it was their lack of scum reads and then a 'safe' vote on Nae, coupled with frustration when people push back on her, all seems a bit suss yes.

So apparently any time I try to do anything I’m the devil. GOT IT.

No I am the Devil

FuDuzn just disappearing and posting once a day is concerning to me btw

Coming from someone who was just prodded for lack of activity......hello pot, meet kettle.

I generally don't have all day to post, and when I was free yesterday I wasn't getting a lot of engagement with my posting, so ya I am not gonna be Clap and just engage with the wall lol

[FuDuzn]

Upwards - towny
Naerys - towny
Claptastik - towny
lucca261 -??
FuDuzn - town
Gamma Emerald - leaning sus
Laplacian - towny
Zebedee - ???
Gypyx - Leaning slightly towny
MargotRosa - scummy
DeltaWave - scummy
Alianna - ????

This is where I am right now. I usually don't have this many reads to start so something could be wrong.

I had Margot scummy at the time because of a post but looking back it wasn't as bad as I thought. I'd put her in ???? Tier right now I think.

Which post were you concerned by out of curiousity?

The one I voted you

So actually because I asked FD if I was being scum read

Yes

Scum read by me or Hu?

I think it is pretty clear I think you are scum

[FuDuzn]

FuDuzn just disappearing and posting once a day is concerning to me btw

Coming from someone who was just prodded for lack of activity......hello pot, meet kettle.

I generally don't have all day to post, and when I was free yesterday I wasn't getting a lot of engagement with my posting, so ya I am not gonna be Clap and just engage with the wall lol

Touché

the concerning part to me is that you were super active at the beginning, pushing other people to talk, asking lots of questions
then it suddenly stopped

i mean we needed content-generating FD for a while during the endless argument that took like two days and five pages

Wait, can we start talking about FD again? I've been wanting to do that for ages lol

Sure let's go

[FuDuzn]

If you're town, how did the self vote play to win condition?

Means it had control over when hammer happened, so she could give honest and open reads before the day ended I'd guess

I am annoyed by the self-hammer because I wanted Alinna's replacement to participate before the day was over. The only person who expressed an intention to quickhammer was Hu and he backed off that. I didn't expect GE to do it herself.

If you wanted this, why didn't you unvote?

I typed this out in all caps, then thought better of it. But just so you know, it can and should be read as if it was in all caps.

Did YOU expect GE to self-hammer? Oh come on.

I'm sorry what?

[FuDuzn]

Well, not how I expected my first game back here to go hehe