Mini Normal 2316 | Halloween | Endgame
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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hey there
VOTE: heipizhu4-
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VOTE: DragonEater70
24 was really bad and I don't see a town motivation to post it.-
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If you could produce a specific example to support that because I briefly skimmed some other games of his and nothing really strikes me the way that 24 does. It just really hits as a scum fretting over apperance whereas I think Town would probably be chill enough to just let the naked vote lie.-
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I was not pushing a narrative but if you wanted an example of what that would look like you can use this post.In post 49, TheHoldSteady wrote:
24 also caught my eye on my initial readthrough (though not to the same intensity as Wartortle is making out). But unless you're bold enough to defend your partner's bad page one post on page two, I'll take this as face value.In post 33, usesPython wrote:
DE's normally like that, I don't think 24 is alignment indicativeIn post 32, OutWorldER wrote: VOTE: DragonEater70
24 was really bad and I don't see a town motivation to post it.
So, what else? Wartortle scum for continuing to push this narrative even when there's new evidence to work against it?
VOTE: Wartortle
VOTE: TheHoldSteady-
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Back from closing shift and catching up. The interactions on page 6 with DE are giving me a pretty solid TR on Wiz right now. Actively solving and to me at least it feels like he's a genuinely uninformed party, something I'm not sure I can explain why I feel that way beyond a general vibes thing.
Nothing has jumped out to me as particularly scummy since my last vote so I'm happy keeping on THS here since his response to Wartortle wasn't great. I'm still not huge on DE, I feel like despite committing to pressuring Wiz a lot of his posts are softballs, though I admit that may just be the nature of how early it is in the game. Also not a huge fan of Python, they point out Naerys vote on the THS wagon but I feel like their own vote they made their isn't much better, really haven't been a fan of any of their votes past RVS tbh.-
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"Hop on the bandwagon"? BlackStar doesn't even have a vote down as of right now (which admittedly bothers me despite him having SR's on two people both of which he could reasonably place a vote down on). Incredibly defensive, my confidence in a THS vote only increases.-
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i'd think up a funny response to enchant's opening but I have to go to work so all the funny has left my body.
Anyways I do have to go to work so offline until tomorrow, I'm in agreement with BlackStar actually that I think 168 puts a lot of defensiveness in context and sounds like a genuinely frustrated townie, though one that I think is jumping the gun a little bit.
I think I'm gonna park my vote on Hu Tao while I'm at work because her intro and subsequent disappearance didn't exactly enthuse me towards the slot and I like pressuring lurkers D1.
VOTE: Hu Tao-
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:p unfortunately I work closing shifts which bites into most of my free time. I've been trying to keep up but it's difficult.In post 236, Naerys wrote: OutWorldER(says he likes to pressure lurkers but lurks himself)
I don't really agree with Wortle's opener being scum theater it looked a lot more like townie trying to bait interaction to me and I think he's been fairly townie since then as well.
Keeping my vote on Hu Tao because 217 is awful.-
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This doesn't really refute the point I was making that your own vote on the THS wagon isn't really much better as you just naked voted in the middle of page 5. Talk me through 106, why did you vote there, was it just sheeping Wartortle?In post 199, usesPython wrote:
Our problem with Naerys isn't that she voted for THS but that her vote feels like it was made to say anything at all about wartle who she was sheepingIn post 157, OutWorldER wrote: Also not a huge fan of Python, they point out Naerys vote on the THS wagon but I feel like their own vote they made their isn't much better, really haven't been a fan of any of their votes past RVS tbh.
That said I'm also a little bit weird on Naerys at this point as I find it strange that she brings up post 20 as her reason for SRing Wartortle but only started pushing that read recently. I don't feel like that lines up with Naerys own opening in 39 and 41.-
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VOTE: AnimatedWizIn post 245, AnimatedWiz wrote:
Hm, I would like to share a theory of mine: I think Naerys’s read changing on Wartortle is likely due to 216, since it’s the only post before hers to directly mention 20 at all. We know her read on him changed because in 68 she agreed with him enough to change her vote accordingly.In post 241, OutWorldER wrote: That said I'm also a little bit weird on Naerys at this point as I find it strange that she brings up post 20 as her reason for SRing Wartortle but only started pushing that read recently. I don't feel like that lines up with Naerys own opening in 39 and 41.
If this is the case, it likely means one of these two possibilities is true:
a) She saw my post and honestly thought it a convincing case in addition to everything else said on Wartortle, and thus switched her tune on him—in this case, her flipping her reads when other people present counter arguments likely means she is struggling to properly sort anyone out yet.
b) She saw that I was townreading her earlier in 160 and is hoping to get a pocket on me by sheeping my reads. I think that this would make the most sense out of the two options if we take 199 as a correct observation.-
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As just a general principle I do not like when players try to speak for other players and consider anti-town at the best of times because if the player you're speaking for is scum then they just get to hide behind whatever explanation you gave them and if the player is town then you're more likely to piss them off and get into a shitfight over it.In post 248, AnimatedWiz wrote:
So I’m getting the sense that you don’t agree with my theory—all fine and good.In post 247, OutWorldER wrote:
VOTE: AnimatedWizIn post 245, AnimatedWiz wrote:
Hm, I would like to share a theory of mine: I think Naerys’s read changing on Wartortle is likely due to 216, since it’s the only post before hers to directly mention 20 at all. We know her read on him changed because in 68 she agreed with him enough to change her vote accordingly.In post 241, OutWorldER wrote: That said I'm also a little bit weird on Naerys at this point as I find it strange that she brings up post 20 as her reason for SRing Wartortle but only started pushing that read recently. I don't feel like that lines up with Naerys own opening in 39 and 41.
If this is the case, it likely means one of these two possibilities is true:
a) She saw my post and honestly thought it a convincing case in addition to everything else said on Wartortle, and thus switched her tune on him—in this case, her flipping her reads when other people present counter arguments likely means she is struggling to properly sort anyone out yet.
b) She saw that I was townreading her earlier in 160 and is hoping to get a pocket on me by sheeping my reads. I think that this would make the most sense out of the two options if we take 199 as a correct observation.
It does not help that your "theory" reads a lot like you actively shading Naerys without actually committing to a read on the slot. It reads like scum poisoning the well rather than a town that's solving.-
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In post 260, TheHoldSteady wrote:
I just want to drag this slot out of the burrows a little more.In post 259, DragonEater70 wrote:That's a weird vote after you make a pretty convincing case on Ani.
This series of events doesn't really endear me to Enchant's slot right now. Obviously 260 and 261 happen after Enchant OMGUS votes THS but I feel like Enchant would at least be aware of how their slot is perceived at the time THS votes them and simply refusing to provide AI content feels purposefully obstinate at this point rather than just introductory trolling.In post 261, TheHoldSteady wrote: I feel like Enchant becomes easier to read the more they talk so I'm alright voting them a bit to get them going.-
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I do feel like Wiz is the best wagon right now simply because 245 sent off a lot of alarm bells in my head and I think it'd be easier to solve people who are on a Wiz wagon than on a Hu Tao wagon.-
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Speaking of wagons can we get a VC? Votes have shifted quite a bit since the last one.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Okay, none of what you're saying here is dissuading my vote on you because you're still dancing around the problem. You presented two theories, one of which implies Naerys Town and the other implies Naerys Scum, and then left it there without saying which you even believe in. It would be different if you stated a concrete read or even a lean on Naerys beforehand but in the absence of that it just looks like you're setting yourself up to see which way the wind blows on Naerys and shading her at the same time. That's what's ringing my scum alarm bells.In post 282, AnimatedWiz wrote: Uh, two thoughts :
1) I really didn’t know OWER was trying to ask Naerys specifically on why she changed her vote and such, which is why I shared my theory on that—wasn’t trying to speak for her .
I also see what you mean about the two-pronged theory not being super helpful—I think in trying to be accurate (and therefore covering all the possibilities I could see), I lost most of the decisiveness of just presenting the possibility I thought most applicable. I appreciate you pointing that fact out for me—I’ll have to try to be more narrow with my theories in the future so they can have more… oomph.-
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"If we take 199 as a correct observation" is incredibly flip-floppy language to use to present a scum-read. Again, it feels like you set yourself up to opportunistically back out of any position that could be unfavorable to you. What is your SR on Naerys built on besides just sheeping Python's read from page 8?-
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I'm not sure if I'm reading that post right, where did Naerys sheep you and why does it imply scum!Naerys? And tbh Naerys dig for me being inactive was deserved because I genuinely wasn't posting at a good volume beforehand because of work.
DE, THS, Wartortle <-- TownreadsIn post 290, AnimatedWiz wrote: If I could ask you, OWER, what are your reads right now?
Smiley <-- Townlean
Naerys, Python <-- Null
Enchant <-- Scumlean
You, Hu Tao <-- Scumreads-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Okay I did misread that post really badly, that's my bad.
Why does Naerys sheeping your read mean she's pocketing you? If she were trying to pocket you don't you think she'd be trying to reach out to you a little more? You and her have barely interacted, I'm not seeing the logic here.
I literally forgot BlackStar was in this game lol. I'd probably put him in null just for that.-
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Why is it weird to have someone you haven't really interacted with as a TR? What does Naerys get from pocketing YOU specifically, especially considering that you haven't really been in control of the game-state throughout this entire day?In post 297, AnimatedWiz wrote: I agree we haven’t had much direct interaction, but I think that fact supports my theory instead of weakening it—it’s weird to have me as a top townread and sheep my reads when we’ve not interacted aside from me saying that I want to trust her once.
I think all of that was part of subtle attempt at making me want to further trust her over time without having any easy, quotable evidence like directly saying she trusts me or likes me or something. It’s quite natural to trust people who have similar reads, especially if other people are against those reads, right—that’s the way I think she was trying to pocket me.
Plus, out of everyone in the town, I was probably the best candidate for her to try that on, since I’m new, already reading her favorably, and have reads that other people are against.
This feels less like a concrete theory you have and more like you scrambling to put yourself back together after being challenged. I think this supports my earlier proposition that you've been trying to position yourself to easily disengage from these kinds of conversations.-
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I'm curious what you think those bad reasons are because DE's sounded reasonable on the last page to me. I think it's important to remember we're only like 14 pages and a few days into D1 with 6 days or so still remaining in the deadline. I could definitely understand if DE didn't have many definitive scumreads at this point and is simply pushing the person he finds least towny.In post 336, Wartortle wrote:
i think de is scum trying to push a vulnerable slot for bad reasonsIn post 309, DragonEater70 wrote: Just for the record, this is the post I typed out earlier (before I fell asleep):
VOTE: Wiz
I just don't see anything towny about him. I'm not saying the slot *screams* "scum", but I feel I could towncase literally everyone in this game except Wiz, Enchant and Hu Tao. And Hu Tao has made 2 posts. And Enchant is Enchant.
I'm also curious on your viewpoint that Wiz is inexperienced town rather than scum because in my experience Wiz is playing mostly how inexperienced/unsure scum play. Half-hearted attempts to try and fake solving the game and then crumbling when a townie challenges him on it.-
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Heads up I have to go to work soon and won't be back in the thread till tomorrow.
Perhaps it's my fucked sense of time/general impatience but it feels like the wagon here is stalling and I think it's a sign scum are not on the wagon right now. I might be tunneling here but it's just another thing that talks me into pushing Wiz.-
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In post 358, Enchant wrote: VOTE: SmileyDude1
No one finds this one suspicious? By suspicious i mean in "Not Townie Way". I am townie so i know how townie could act!
I've been trying to read through some of Enchant's earlier games and I can't find one where they try to obfuscate their reads like this and be purposefully obstinate to other players. This doesn't feel like the town Enchant I'm reading in other games.In post 360, Enchant wrote: It's obviously not random vote and i have respectable reasons which i won't share because... because...
... It's secret!-
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Or at least, not obstinate in the way their playing here, is how I guess I should phrase it.
p.edit Yeah but it feels different this game than it does in like, 2294.-
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In post 402, TheHoldSteady wrote: Enchant says its Smiley, I think it could be Annie, DE thought it was Annie, Black thinks it was DE, I don't think its Wartortle, Status and Annie say its Wartortle, Wartortle says it's not Annie. Who is wrong here and who is leading us off the track?
Okay I'm gonna get off my Wiz tunnel now because these posts carry the HEAVY vibe of being informed while also not tracking with a vote on TSQ at all. HoldSteady proclaims that someone is leading town astray and so votes the person who only just recently got a hold of the game-state? That doesn't ring as consistent to me.In post 404, TheHoldSteady wrote: There's too many scumreads out there for the amount of scum there are.
VOTE: TheHoldSteady
re: Wartortle being an alt. I don't really have a stake in that debate because IMO it's not one that's really productive. If Wartortle is an alt that's entirely his own prerogative to reveal or not. I don't think anything alignment-indicative or helpful comes out of trying to have that discussion.-
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Have to go to work again, will be out of the thread till tomorrow, again.-
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work yesterday has sapped pretty much all of my motivation to play today (closing on halloween night in fast food, and they scheduled it like it was a normal tuesday so we were critically understaffed). I don't think I'm in prod range but I'll prod dodge anyways and then return tomorrow when I have the day off.-
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UNVOTE:
Think I trust Black's meta read on THS since I'm usually quite bad at reading impulsive players like that and I'm curious on the Roden slot case.
quote=Naerys post_id=13973015 post_num=551 time=1698954158 user_id=33598]
I dislike the way he says he SR me. My view of him has not really changed. Could be buddy of either Hu Tao or Roden.
[/quote]
You have expressed multiple SR's on various people throughout the pages but your vote hasn't changed since page 3 in 69. What is your read on THS? Why are you still voting him over the other people you've expressed an SR about?-
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Fixed quote tags.In post 552, OutWorldER wrote: UNVOTE:
Think I trust Black's meta read on THS since I'm usually quite bad at reading impulsive players like that and I'm curious on the Roden slot case.
You have expressed multiple SR's on various people throughout the pages but your vote hasn't changed since page 3 in 69. What is your read on THS? Why are you still voting him over the other people you've expressed an SR about?In post 551, Naerys wrote: I dislike the way he says he SR me. My view of him has not really changed. Could be buddy of either Hu Tao or Roden.-
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In post 326, Naerys wrote: Look at the scum trying to shade me again. If i missed questions aimed at me, i will answer them after i arrive home.
I am not a pocketing type of person so if you think i was trying to pocket you, you are wrong. I honestly thought THS was being suspicious, so i wanted to add some pressure on the slot.
The former post was aimed at Wiz when he was presenting his pocketing theory, which you responded by calling him scum directly, yet not placing a vote. Now you're townreading him. What changed between these two posts? There's no visible progression here.In post 549, Naerys wrote: I think either Hu Tao or Roden who are sitting on Animated wagon, might be scum. From Ani i get townie vibes. I think scum is testing waters for easy lim.-
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I don't really like that answer but to be frank you just got out of surgery so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here.
I reread Wartortle's ISO and I think I can agree with a vote on Wartortle simply because his confidence in his own play doesn't really match with the flip-floppiness of his reads.In 186 he says he's trying to be a town leader but I can agree with TSQ here that he seems to make no actual effort to lead the town anywhere. His fence-sitting implies a town unconfident in himself which just doesn't mesh with his earlier posts.
VOTE: Wartortle-
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That is spicy, curious to hear why you think.In post 558, Black wrote: Spicy take...I think OWER could be scum here-
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I've never called DE's slot scum at any point in this game. I voted for him in the very early pages of the game and then never again, as you yourself observed, and I still think that slot is town. THS I flip-flop on because there are times where he posts what seems to me like genuine town emotion and other times where he makes posts which are simply baffling to me. At the time I made that reads list I thought his reactions to the push against him seemed very townie, and then he wasn't really a major player for a few pages. I also just genuinely have a lot of trouble sorting out players like him which is again why I'm trusting your meta read over my own vibes.In post 564, Black wrote:
Like DE, THS, and Wartortle being your only townreads here just can't be real. You have voted for all 3 of them and called them scum at different points in the Day. And yeah reads change but you had the confidence to put them in the townREAD pile, not even townlean or null. In DE's case you voted for him before this list and you actually expressed a progression on him why you started to TR him, but you voted for THS and Wartortle after this list and I feel like the reasons weren't anywhere close to strong enough to drop them from a solid townread to scumread. It feels fabricatedIn post 291, OutWorldER wrote: DE, THS, Wartortle <-- Townreads
Smiley <-- Townlean
Naerys, Python <-- Null
Enchant <-- Scumlean
You, Hu Tao <-- Scumreads
Wartortle I'll give you that my shift is sudden on but I did genuinely have to reread his ISO to make that shift and I did that after you and TSQ were bringing up points against him and wanted to consider them without the biases of what I felt in the early game getting in the way, after which I did find myself agreeing with those points and finding a few reasons of my own to sus him.
re: my 241 I did have a sus on Naerys here but kept my vote on Hu Tao because of 217 striking me as a genuinely awful post, after which Annie responded to me with his theory which I also found to be scummy and that fight happened. Events simply happened in a way where I didn't really have the time to commit to a stance on Naerys there. That's also why I don't think my post and Annie's theory are really comparable since Annie's wording seemed (to me) consciously worded to back himself out of commitment where as I simply couldn't do it due to happenstance.-
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DE/Roden, Black <--- Townread
Hu Tao, Smiley <--- Townlean
Naerys, THS <-- Null
Enchant, Python <-- Scumlean
AnimatedWiz, Wartortle <-- Scumread
Hu Tao gets a townlean from me because I genuinely don't think scum that's playing the way she is would make the vote she made in 264. Python was fairly passive during the Wiz wagon for reasons they've explained but their recent posting feels weird to me as their posts don't seem to align with their vote on Naerys. Naerys is still a null, I don't like her recent posting but I'm willing to chalk it up to surgery and tiredness. THS I'm just going to commit to not being able to sort this D1. Every other read I've expressed here I think I've expressed elsewhere and if not I can explain them.-
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I reconsidered around the time of 419 when I realized I was probably tunneling you and needed to regroup and reconsider some slots. I also just had genuinely not paid attention to 264 at the time of 291 besides registering it as another vote on my tunnel target.In post 577, AnimatedWiz wrote:In post 575, OutWorldER wrote: DE/Roden, Black <--- Townread
Hu Tao, Smiley <--- Townlean
Naerys, THS <-- Null
Enchant, Python <-- Scumlean
AnimatedWiz, Wartortle <-- Scumread
Hu Tao gets a townlean from me because I genuinely don't think scum that's playing the way she is would make the vote she made in 264.
Thanks! Why/when did your thought process on Hu Tao switch, exactly? You scumread them hard in 291, which wasafter264.-
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I could've sworn I put TSQ on there. He's a townread, I don't think scum replaces in to immediately start swinging on (at that time) a player who'd been mostly TR'd by a good chunk of the player list. Also the whole debacle around Wartortle's status as an alt account strikes me as a townie feeling deceived regardless of whether or not that's actually the case.In post 580, BlackStar wrote:
Your list is missing thestatusquo and meIn post 575, OutWorldER wrote: DE/Roden, Black <--- Townread
Hu Tao, Smiley <--- Townlean
Naerys, THS <-- Null
Enchant, Python <-- Scumlean
AnimatedWiz, Wartortle <-- Scumread
Hu Tao gets a townlean from me because I genuinely don't think scum that's playing the way she is would make the vote she made in 264. Python was fairly passive during the Wiz wagon for reasons they've explained but their recent posting feels weird to me as their posts don't seem to align with their vote on Naerys. Naerys is still a null, I don't like her recent posting but I'm willing to chalk it up to surgery and tiredness. THS I'm just going to commit to not being able to sort this D1. Every other read I've expressed here I think I've expressed elsewhere and if not I can explain them.
You I literally just keep forgetting about, you are a blank in my mind, for some reason. Looking through your ISO you ask a lot of questions that just read as softballs to me and I agree with TSQ that you just generally interact with the game in a way I'm not really vibing with.-
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VOTE: NaerysIn post 823, Naerys wrote: VOTE: Black
Positioning? WTF?
You are the one who goaded me into voting, which i unfortunately fell for
I feel like if you actually had this take you would've come into the day swinging at Black instead of spending the first few posts speculating on the no-kill, this vote feels incredibly fake.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Enchant's play here is actually fairly baffling to me because from what I read they have a reputation of low-info posting, quickhammering, and good mechanical play very late into the game and so the quickhammer yesterday is somewhat confusing because the posts afterwards come off as very weirdly trying to justify everything.
The spicy take I have here is I actually think it's coming from a town!Enchant because it feels like Enchant is trying to have people take them more seriously here and that's an emotion I think only comes from Town here. Scum, I think, would just try to coast by on their reputation.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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I have to go to work very soon, but it's my last week so after the 11th I'll be able to be more present, since the only thing on my plate afterwards is setting up appointments with college advisors.
Nothing in the last few pages has swayed me off a Naerys vote, I just don't think her read on Black feels real at all, her End of D1 interactions with Enchant in 721 and 731 doesn't feel like a real progression and I think Wartortle was right when he called it out 741-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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I wish I could interact with you a bit more too but I woke up late today after a long night and I have to go to work in ~2 hours.In post 1057, AnimatedWiz wrote: …I do wish I could interact with OWER a bit more—I feel like hearing about how he read the beginning of D2 (especially about Roden, Shea, and you) would help solidify a case against or for him. As it stands, I feel like his D1 was rather scummy once the ball started rolling, but I wouldn’t like to rely on just that for an elimination, y’know?
I have a wall-post saved up as a draft but posting it now would causediscourseand I would rather be around to actually be involved in that conversation than just watching people talk at me on my phone at work, so frankly I'm just gonna declare my unavailability today and come back tomorrow when I have the day off.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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alright, I got back from work fairly early, so I'll drop this now and then probably go to sleep, and respond to whatever is posted in response in the morning when I wake up
Spoiler: WHEN YOU JUMP TO IT AND YOU CAN'T GO THROUGH IT AND YOU CAN'T KNOCK IT DOWN
VOTE: Roden-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Roden's response was to self-vote, which I don't see how you take as anything but a scum claim (his top scumread [myself] comes down to drop mucho texto on top of him, and instead of fighting it he just gives up?), so I'm curious to hear this counter-argument you have.In post 1124, BlackStar wrote:
I think your argument against him doesn’t really work for two reasons, but I want to see Roden’s response before I share the issues I see with it.In post 1111, OutWorldER wrote: alright, I got back from work fairly early, so I'll drop this now and then probably go to sleep, and respond to whatever is posted in response in the morning when I wake up
Spoiler: WHEN YOU JUMP TO IT AND YOU CAN'T GO THROUGH IT AND YOU CAN'T KNOCK IT DOWN
VOTE: Roden
Hi I just woke up at 1 PM in the afternoon. I'm mostly caught up.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Python is multiple people (actually I've been meaning to ask, although I'm unsure if this is an insensitive question: Python, are you a system?) so I could see this being the case tbhIn post 1181, Black wrote:
How do you not know who your vote is on?In post 1180, usesPython wrote:
I literally have 0 clue who our vote is on rn without checking, I'd be surprised if anyone could VCA us with any sort of reliabilityIn post 1176, AnimatedWiz wrote:
1. Can’t do VCA on someone who policy votes a lot of different things.In post 1175, TheHoldSteady wrote:
Why do you care?In post 1173, AnimatedWiz wrote: Python, I fear y’all are going to have a lot of policy votes if you keep adding more conditions on.
2. It dilutes the limiting power of a policy vote—people won’t respect the vote if they know someone else will catch it soon after.
3. It’s kind of funny.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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I'm not a fan of a solve that has Hu Tao in it tbh I think my legacy read from D1 there still fits, nothing that Hu Tao has posted since has swayed me otherwise.In post 1200, Black wrote: I actually kinda like that solve from Wartortle-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Members of the town do self vote all the time but usually it's when they're being voted by people who they also think are townies.
Roden has stated an SR on me ever since he replaced into this game. I start pushing him and that's his queue to give up? That makes no sense from a town perspective.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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It's not a flawed premise because Roden has zero reason to come into the day with 948 unless he's trying to pull some "I told you so" kind of nonsense. All of the first three posts I quoted in that wall are trying to knock Black down for pushing a mislim. The implication here is obvious.
Okay, but Roden's last few posts in that argument do not, at all, follow with this narrative you're putting out. Look at 973, 974, 975. Roden is outright calling Black scum here, a progression that does not make any sense at all. You're trying to say that Roden's trying to vote off a person he thinks is town out of anger (if I'm understanding you're arguement correctly, and I may be stupid so it's possible I'm not), but that does not at all follow with those posts.But Black took the conversation in a completely different direction and started talking about all the other people she’s voted for and making the claim that Roden must be informed that they were all town. Roden asked her who she was voting for right now (him) and then Naerys jumped in and made a snarky post along the lines of “hello? Are you even paying attention to the game?”. She seemed to completely miss the point he was making and that just served to make him more frustrated. I’d get angry too after that.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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"not basing a read on his actual actions" My guy, read the posts again. Even if you don't want to say that Roden is trying to ride the fact that he wasn't on Wartortle's wagon, you can at least agree with me that Roden's initial posts in that argument are based entirely around discrediting Black, right?In post 1223, BlackStar wrote:
If he didn’t say that he defended Wartortle hard, it seems weird to me to say that he might have planned t do it in the future. He’s had all this time to say that and still hasn’t, so it seems like you’re pushing a hypothetical instead of basing your read on his actual actions.In post 1218, OutWorldER wrote: It's not a flawed premise because Roden has zero reason to come into the day with 948 unless he's trying to pull some "I told you so" kind of nonsense. All of the first three posts I quoted in that wall are trying to knock Black down for pushing a mislim. The implication here is obvious.
Okay, but Roden's last few posts in that argument do not, at all, follow with this narrative you're putting out. Look at 973, 974, 975. Roden is outright calling Black scum here, a progression that does not make any sense at all. You're trying to say that Roden's trying to vote off a person he thinks is town out of anger (if I'm understanding you're arguement correctly, and I may be stupid so it's possible I'm not), but that does not at all follow with those posts.But Black took the conversation in a completely different direction and started talking about all the other people she’s voted for and making the claim that Roden must be informed that they were all town. Roden asked her who she was voting for right now (him) and then Naerys jumped in and made a snarky post along the lines of “hello? Are you even paying attention to the game?”. She seemed to completely miss the point he was making and that just served to make him more frustrated. I’d get angry too after that.
I don’t know if he think Black is town or not. My point was that multiple people either unintentionally or intentionally seemed like o misunderstand what he was saying and it’s understandable that someone would be upset about that
Your second point just has nothing to do at all with Roden's progression on Black. By the time Roden is voting Black we're pretty well past the "misunderstanding" points of the arguement.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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@Black I don't see why it isn't possible that my town play simply reminds you of your own scum play. I often (read 2 years ago) was considered limbait in other games I've played as town (see Student Council Mafia or Mini Normal 2185), so the idea that my town play reminds a player of their scum!self isn't wild to me.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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actually maybe don't read 2185 I got mad af that game-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Once, in Mini Normal 2179. However, I'm unsure in how useful it would be for determining my alignment in this game because I had the good fortune that game to roll a scumteam with both Flavor Leaf and Alchemist and I essentially got hard carried that game. My memories of that game are mostly me lurking out while FL blew smoke everywhere.In post 1267, Black wrote: I could definitely be wrong here. I don't think I am though
I'll try to look through OWER's games when I get to my PC
@OWER: Have you rolled scum on here before?
Links:
Game Itself: viewtopic.php?t=85010
The Maf PT for that Game: viewtopic.php?t=85015-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Roden, Naerys, BlackStar is my limpool for the day
I explained beforehand why I townleaned you and also I think scum in your position here would've hopped on Roden or Black, so frankly I just think you're a lurky townie and not scum.In post 1379, Hu Tao wrote:
I'm weary of people who defend me when I've literally done nothing.In post 1209, OutWorldER wrote:
I'm not a fan of a solve that has Hu Tao in it tbh I think my legacy read from D1 there still fits, nothing that Hu Tao has posted since has swayed me otherwise.In post 1200, Black wrote: I actually kinda like that solve from Wartortle-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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I'm a VT.
Still gathering my thoughts about everything. Fully believe Smiley's claim, am a bit sus about THS's JOAT claim, though I've seen power roles self-vote themselves and even self-hammer before so honestly I don't think it's alignment indicative. I do think his stated night actions are a little too perfect though tbh.
p.edit Black that's not a real claim Enchant is trolling-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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No it was HoldSteady who got Jailed, which is why Shea/BlackStar are both alive if HS's claim is true-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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One of the protectives has to be fake there's no way the NRG passes on Town having 4 different ways (JOAT Doc, JK, BG, BP) to cuck the scumteam's kill even if their gated.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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It was advertised as Simple but Smiley claimed Lazy JK (Lazy is not a simple modifier, it's Regular+) and IIRC the game was formally in signups before the compartment system debuted. Smiley has no reason to lie about being Lazy (which is why I wholeheartedly believe his claim) so the game being tagged as simple honestly means jack shit.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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I don't know if the mod would be able to actually answer that question since it could be considered the mod confirming a player's role-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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I mean, all those roles are in the Simple compartment, even if this game was not made with that system in mind, they're in that compartment for a reason. And the resolution isn't complicated, Jailkeep is considered it's own action type under NAR and resolves before Protection or Kill so it's not very complex for the mod to keep track of and the players only have to look at the NAR page for 2 seconds.
Again, I'm inclined to believe the JOAT claim is actually the fake one here because having a Vig of any kind in a JK/BG/BP setup seems ludicrously swingy in Town's favor, not to mention the other abilities that he claimed, and his stated night actions are incredibly convenient for someone in THS's position.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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VOTE: BlackStar
I'm still somewhat sus of the JOAT claim but honestly with Black's results it can only be one of three people I think (If I'm interpreting claims correctly) and I think Python's reasoning makes sense here.
BlackStar had to claim with a Watcher who had not claimed results yet and so making a miracle alibi is his only choice there if he's scum, otherwise he risks getting immediately caught out on a lie if Black had watched his target (and she did).In post 1653, AnimatedWiz wrote: I… hm… I do find it quite convenient that the Bodyguard did target two people who were already protected from danger by the Jailkeeper (who claimed before he did).
However, I feel like if BlackStar would tell a lie, it would be something a bit less miraculous as to be less suspicious, right? It’s weird, but I feel it’s honest for that’s reason.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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I mean, setup spec wise there is no possible way that a Ninja could be here I think unless it was heavily gated. That would invalidate all 3 of our limited investigative shots that were already at risk of being invalidated by the Jailkeeper in the first place.In post 1659, Roden wrote: Oh, I was thinking because Ninja isn't Simple and couldn't be in the set up, then we can pretty much guarantee the killer had to be Blackstar
Idk now though
If THS's claim is real then scum at least have a Roleblocker (since THS said he couldn't get a result on me) and I don't think scum would have Ninja + RB.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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BlackStar's BG is not confirm-able at this point. We don't have any more roles that get results back (meaning we cannot know who was roleblocked in nights beyond this day) unless Enchant is a PR, and if he's scum he hides behind that on future days and if Town his BG is near-useless at this stage. There's no real benefit to keeping him alive here and of the two possible options (assuming Smiley's JK is real) he's the far more likely scum since his night 2 action makes no sense.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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I can see why Roden got frustrated with you.In post 1874, Black wrote: Oh wow OWER is still here. And he jumps in to stop a python wagon? Hmm
I've been busy setting up for college stuff which is why I've been inactive for a bit.-
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OutWorldER He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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