TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[Mistyx]

Spoiler:

Votecount 2.13

Akarin(4)

~ thestatusquo(73), Mistyx(65), Nancy Drew 39(197), Iconeum(186)

NorwegianboyEE(3)

~ Flavor Leaf(325), Ramcius(58), Pine(52)

Flavor Leaf(1)

~ NorwegianboyEE(217)


Not Voting (3): TheGoldenParadox(13), Dr Easy Bake(10), Akarin(12)


Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-12 12:40:00)

Mod Notes

• Iconeum on weekend v/la

Votecount 2.14

TheGoldenParadox(3)

~ Nancy Drew 39(257), Akarin(49), Ramcius(63)

Akarin(3)

~ thestatusquo(88), Mistyx(68), Iconeum(186)

NorwegianboyEE(2)

~ Flavor Leaf(407), Pine(52)

Pine(1)

~ NorwegianboyEE(277)


Not Voting (2): TheGoldenParadox(13), Dr Easy Bake(12)


Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-12 12:40:00)

Mod Notes

• Iconeum on weekend v/la
  
• Prodding TheGoldenParadox

Votecount 2.17 - Final

TheGoldenParadox(6)

~ Nancy Drew 39(286), Akarin(49), Ramcius(70), Iconeum(223), Mistyx(71), NorwegianboyEE(318)

-- HAMMER

NorwegianboyEE(2)

~ Flavor Leaf(420), Pine(56)

Flavor Leaf(1)

~ TheGoldenParadox(17)

Akarin(1)

~ thestatusquo(90)


Not Voting (1): Dr Easy Bake(12)


Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-12 12:40:00)

Mod Notes

• That's it for Day 2!

okay i got some from titus about yesterday's VCA

she thinks DEB not voting is indicative of the wagons being TvT, and thinks scum are probably sheeping there

and thinks that Ram following nancy fills that idea

[Mistyx]

she's working off the base assumptions of nancy/akarin town in that vca, which i agree with

VOTE: Ramicus

she and I both think that the gamestate needs shaking up here and want to do this

[Mistyx]

Spoiler:

Votecount 2.13

Akarin(4)

~ thestatusquo(73), Mistyx(65), Nancy Drew 39(197), Iconeum(186)

NorwegianboyEE(3)

~ Flavor Leaf(325), Ramcius(58), Pine(52)

Flavor Leaf(1)

~ NorwegianboyEE(217)


Not Voting (3): TheGoldenParadox(13), Dr Easy Bake(10), Akarin(12)


Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-12 12:40:00)

Mod Notes

• Iconeum on weekend v/la

Votecount 2.14

TheGoldenParadox(3)

~ Nancy Drew 39(257), Akarin(49), Ramcius(63)

Akarin(3)

~ thestatusquo(88), Mistyx(68), Iconeum(186)

NorwegianboyEE(2)

~ Flavor Leaf(407), Pine(52)

Pine(1)

~ NorwegianboyEE(277)


Not Voting (2): TheGoldenParadox(13), Dr Easy Bake(12)


Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-12 12:40:00)

Mod Notes

• Iconeum on weekend v/la
  
• Prodding TheGoldenParadox

Votecount 2.17 - Final

TheGoldenParadox(6)

~ Nancy Drew 39(286), Akarin(49), Ramcius(70), Iconeum(223), Mistyx(71), NorwegianboyEE(318)

-- HAMMER

NorwegianboyEE(2)

~ Flavor Leaf(420), Pine(56)

Flavor Leaf(1)

~ TheGoldenParadox(17)

Akarin(1)

~ thestatusquo(90)


Not Voting (1): Dr Easy Bake(12)


Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-12 12:40:00)

Mod Notes

• That's it for Day 2!

okay i got some from titus about yesterday's VCA

she thinks DEB not voting is indicative of the wagons being TvT, and thinks scum are probably sheeping there

and thinks that Ram following nancy fills that idea

Tell her to actually read the game before coming with ridiculous VCA theories, me sheeping Nancy on TGP make me laugh really hard

you jumped on the wagon to

prove that norwee was scum if TGP flipped red?

that seems like scummy following to me tbh

[Mistyx]

Titus also has this big issue of always trusting PR claims. It's the biggest flaw of their VCA. When scum makes the most obvious fake claim Titus just assume it's real and comes up with game losing VCA solves that makes fake claiming scum endgame.

?

the VCA is independent of FL/Pine's alignments and doesn't actually say anything about them

unless you're saying she shouldn't trust akarin's claim

[Mistyx]

ye

the solve is never FL/Pine

[Mistyx]

@Mistyx Ramcius is Town

His actions in the last 24 hours or so scream it

expand please

@norwee
your take on ramicus would also be appreciated

[Mistyx]

Pine you realize those points don’t work for me because I’m not convinced you’re town correct

[Mistyx]

Tangential note

If we hit scum between Norwee/Ram today Pine ALWAYS jailkeeps FL

The mechanical implications of this should be obvious

[Mistyx]

Tangential note

If we hit scum between Norwee/Ram today Pine ALWAYS jailkeeps FL

The mechanical implications of this should be obvious

Norwee/Ram/Shea that is

[Mistyx]

Uh, no.

That would roleblock a Doc shot.

My jail is best used offensively, to roleblock a suspect.

FL is my lead suspect in those worlds (well I guess not scum norwee but the others)

[Mistyx]

Uh, no.

That would roleblock a Doc shot.

My jail is best used offensively, to roleblock a suspect.

FL is my lead suspect in those worlds (well I guess not scum norwee but the others)

He isn't mine, and you don't get to dictate my role usage.

Further, jailing someone and having a kill still go through provides a mechanical clear on that person.

I will not be jailing FL. I haven't decided who I will be, but he's the only one I'm definitely not going to jail.

Okay

Then establish who you are going to jail before day ends so we get the clear if you die

[Mistyx]

Norwee I still want your take on Ram

[Mistyx]

Norwee, simple question - why scum have 1-shot strongman, if town has only 1 JOAT with doc and commute?

It doesn’t matter if scum has 1-shot strongman. I care about how the setup only includes roles that are gated by number of shots.

why give scum a role with such low utility then

[Mistyx]

By the way

If Pine is town, scum are not bussing here

Which I think rules out Norwee/Ram and Norwee/FL

[Mistyx]

Norwee/Pine
Norwee/TSQ
Pine/TSQ
Pine/Ram
TSQ/FL
FL/Ram

I have it narrowed down to these

I’m thinking of cutting out Norwee/Pine here

@akarin
@nancy
Can I get your takes on this when you can

[Mistyx]

If I can comfortable rule out Norwee/Pine I am willing to compromise on Shea

Provided that if I die, norwee is treated as an innocent child and Ram is treated as mafia

I don't want to have to hard decide that right now so I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me why my worldbuilding is wrong if it is

[Mistyx]

If I can comfortable rule out Norwee/Pine I am willing to compromise on Shea

Provided that if I die, norwee is treated as an innocent child and Ram is treated as mafia

I don't want to have to hard decide that right now so I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me why my worldbuilding is wrong if it is

what stops you from just killing me on your death?

my ability doesnt get triggered if im nightkilled

[Mistyx]

Norwee I still want your take on Ram

Town until both scum not being in Pine/FL is disproven.

I can't see a team not being Pine/FL at this point.

ok then you are blatantly not attempting to reevaluate and are therefore a liability

[Mistyx]

I really have trouble with the idea that scum decide to use their 1-shot strongman on Ico last night, instead of waiting for massclaim.

Molla was dead and flipped already, Ico

wasn't

one of the two likely PR shots they could have made if we pretend everyone is town for a moment (Ram, FL)

It just seems way too weird.

i think it's ~reasonable that they could have predicted that DEB was dying today so they had him use it before that

[Mistyx]

hi nancy

i assume you're still catching up so you'll see the thing i asked you in a bit

[Mistyx]

Norwee/Pine
Norwee/TSQ
Pine/TSQ
Pine/Ram
TSQ/FL
FL/Ram

I have it narrowed down to these

I’m thinking of cutting out Norwee/Pine here

@akarin
@nancy
Can I get your takes on this when you can

Yeah, I definitely agree that Norwee/Pine are never a team here.

okay

can you give me a why just so i can feel good about locking it in

[Mistyx]

hi nancy

i assume you're still catching up so you'll see the thing i asked you in a bit

Refresh my memory if I haven’t already answered?

it was about the teams

do you disagree on any of the ones i ruled out

[Mistyx]

I did some thinking and all I can see is 2 possibilities - Pine/FL and Norwee/TSQ

Walk me through this one

Because I came to a very different conclusion

[Mistyx]

same for TSQ

expand on this one

[Mistyx]

i think "isn't liking" is a stretch to rule buddies out

[Mistyx]

we have 8 days why are people worried about a noelim happening

what

[Mistyx]

okay

I still want to assert that in terms of the setup, it is most likely that exactly 1 of FL/Pine's roles exist, and even if not, I don't think today plays out in the way it does if there isn't one scum between them

I kind of hate how FL has approached today but it unfortunately makes sense with how he's been acting this game so I'm still leaning towards Pine

[Mistyx]

So was there ever a convincing reason anyone has for why scum would want to use strongman last night to kill Ico, and not target Ram or FL?

Because to me, if you're worried losing DEB the next day or something and really feel like you want to use that Strongman, why don't you PR hunt?

That's the thing that most doesn't fit to me. And it keeps getting ignored.

this is a fair point

who do you think it points against

[Mistyx]

we've got time

i'm strongly leaning that way but i want to think this out more okay

[Mistyx]

What if we get other people to agree on voting us if Pine is town?

that's just not a town thing to do.

I do not think Pine is scum here. Setup spec all you guys want, but if I were scum here knowing Pine was town, that would mean I'd know his JK is true anyways, and scum cant leave a Town JK that isn't being leashed alive here

that seems like a good argument towards pine being scum???

[Mistyx]

i feel like im very blatantly missing something with this argument

[Mistyx]

tone it down please

[Mistyx]

i think fl has a good point in that pine is a mechanically incorrect kill today

fl, why do you have norwee/ram ruled out but not status/ram?

[Mistyx]

i think fl has a good point in that pine is a mechanically incorrect kill today

fl, why do you have norwee/ram ruled out but not status/ram?

I have said recently I've been thinking about status/ram

i know

but why are you thinking about that but not about norwee/ram

or am i misremembering

[Mistyx]

i think fl has a good point in that pine is a mechanically incorrect kill today

fl, why do you have norwee/ram ruled out but not status/ram?

There is probably not a "mechanically correct" play here; we do not know what roles the scumteam has. JJ would give very good odds on the scumteam for this game having a roleblocker of some kind even if we weren’t certain that Pine was that

well by logic wouldn't the roleblocker probably also be gated?

last year's was 2-shot so i'd guess the same here

[Mistyx]

that's how strongman is always written regardless if there's a roleblocker in the setup or not

[Mistyx]

PINE ISN’T FUCKING TOWN YOU MORON

there is nothing wrong with this yes

[Mistyx]

there are

so many problems with this game

almost every time i open thread i lose motivation rapidly

and it's not one person's fault it's just a mess all around

[Mistyx]

There was an ungated doc last time.

No there wasn't.

Yes, there was an ungated town role that could make a player bp for the night. I can literally quote it for you.

there was not.

[Mistyx]

if you're talking about the talisman joat im pretty sure that wasn't gated

[Mistyx]

remember when this was supposed to be the slow TM game

[Mistyx]

what about the defense

do they have anything to say

[Mistyx]

tbh

i'm in an awkward position where i dont know what decision to make right now

and dont have the motivation to reread

but nothing new is happening

so it's just

stuck

[Mistyx]

Mistyx, Jingle is asking for your logic ruling out Ramcius/Shea.

We don’t disagree, but he’s looking for pieces to the puzzle.

if ram is scum here and you're town pushing his scum partner is strongly -ev

[Mistyx]

I’m leaving for the night.
Misty if you need hand holding through qhat core pounts make Pine scum just ask me for it.

Please don’t speak to Misty like that, it’s really not helpful. :roll:

it's fine i didn't read it as condescending

norwee once you get a chance can you put your case that

isn't

based in setup spec in one post?

[Mistyx]

We aren't voting you out.

We're voting Shea out. He's the actual threat.

...what

[Mistyx]

VOTE: pine

w/e

i'm done deliberating with myself in circles

if this loses the game so be it at least its better than losing by inaction

[Mistyx]

norwee/tsq is the only world without pine that i can really see

i guess it could be fl/ram?

[Mistyx]

I come back and you guys trying to flip Pine? Where gone "we still have time?"

Just for the record, conf town doesn't mean they have better reads than you. Also, ofc scum want kill Mystix, they want to keep even numbers, otherwise we can flip Mystix to go back to odd numbers

we haven't been doing anything

"we still have time" doesn't matter if we aren't using that time

[Mistyx]

Fine, ugh. I’m just so beyond done with this game.

We elim scum!Shea here, I jail Norwegian!scum, game won with an earned guilty.

We elim scum!Shea here, I jail Norwegian!town, we have like, three confirmed Town, we win mathematically.

We elim me, we DON’T have a confirmed scum, we DON’T have confirmed Town (other than Akarin), we’re in endgame with no leads and Town has no clue what to do next.

This is just...its throwing. But fine. Whatever. I needed to pay attention to this game earlier on and not let it get off the rails, that’s my takeaway from this.

see

this is fully based off the logic that if we don't elim you we elim scum 100% today

which just isn't true

[Mistyx]

and if you're town here you're betting the whole game on shea being scum

because you know if we miss today you go down tomorrow

[Mistyx]

that's possible, strongman could be designed to be low value or a red herring, you could be a scum JK and it exists to give credit to your claim, etc

[Mistyx]

VOTE: no elim

Let's get back to odd numbers, I doubt we'll achieve anything this day phase anyway

i agree

VOTE: mistyx

[Mistyx]

VOTE: no elim

Let's get back to odd numbers, I doubt we'll achieve anything this day phase anyway

i agree

VOTE: mistyx

i think this is roughly 0% to happen.

perhaps

[Mistyx]

so norwee

how do you feel about a ramicus elim then

[Mistyx]

Okay you know what

The strongman doesn't matter

It's all WIFOM and no one's going to convince anyone

Drop that point, all of you

[Mistyx]

Ramcius isn't going today.

I'm not going today.

I disagree on these two points

[Mistyx]

Why didn’t you count Flavour?

because thats in the condition that its a pine/fl team

can you answer my question

[Mistyx]

VOTE: no elim

Let's get back to odd numbers, I doubt we'll achieve anything this day phase anyway

i agree

VOTE: mistyx

oh, no no no, you ain't getting opportunity to shoot me or Pine

bruh

[Mistyx]

that is such blatant self preservation that i cant even tell if its scummy or not

[Mistyx]

Fuck it, Mistyx, would you do me a favor and refresh me on where you stand?

Full reads list, please, feel free to be brief. We've covered a lot of ground in the last couple of days and your positions have felt like a moving target to me.

me/nancy/akarin are just town

i think fl is probably town here, his overall approach has been following a somewhat predictable trajectory (or at least a very fl one)

i also cannot think of a plausible scum partner for him except maybe ram

so that leaves norwee/you/ram/tsq

norwee/ram isn't a thing, neither is norwee/you just based off your approaches from today

i also think tsq/ram isn't a thing for the same reasons, and neither is tsq/you

so that just leaves norwee/tsq or you/ram

and theres been some stuff that just feels more genuine from norwee/tsq

[Mistyx]

so like

FL or pine+ram
or norwee/tsq

and i think setup-wise it makes more sense for it to be one of FL/Pine than both being town

[Mistyx]

that is such blatant self preservation that i cant even tell if its scummy or not

I could hammer Pine, if I wanted to self preservation. I chose miselim with a clear goal - to break this stalemate, getting 4 people to agree is easier than 5 and we donn't lose miselim. Also I want to see who scum would kill - Nancy are top priority for protection from our PoV, so either they kill one of you/Norwee/Akarin/TSQ and let us flip Norwee/TSQ or they kill me/Pine/FL, which isn't bad either as either, cause it reduce pool for Norwee and TSQ to push, with 2 of us dead it pretty much expose Norwee/TSQ team

okay

if we flip me today

FL and Pine can lock target akarin and nancy

so the kill is forced between you/Pine/FL/Norwee/TSQ

which is essentially our PoE

[Mistyx]

plus we get to odd numbers without having to waste time

[Mistyx]

my only concern is there being a scum roleblocker

which i guess makes sense in the setup

ugh

[Mistyx]

I’ve already confirmed you as scum for fake claiming.
There are no ungated roles in this setup.

no

[Mistyx]

ive been saying the team was most likely status/norwegian for a long time? before you were

Flavor Leaf

Shea is the better flip here. A Shea scumflip and a jail of Norwee most likely leads to gottem game over we win.

In the last 24 hours or so...I have the smallest of cold feet on Norwee. My team and I are getting paranoid that there’s the slightest chance that he could be Town playing an epically bad game. We do not want to bet the game on him. We are prepared to bet the game on Shea being scum, it’s the only thing which checks all the boxes. Shea flips, and we can confirm/clear potential partners at will.

okay

why is this happening with norwee but not with shea

you gave a full case on norwee but i don't understand your reasons for shea being 100% lock scum

[Mistyx]

Because nothing else makes sense.

Mistyx - I suppose it’s possible you’re scum, but Vengeful would be a ridiculously reckless claim. You’ve also been playing D3 suspicious and Townie, and if I’m vexed by your conclusions you’re coming by then honestly.
Nancy Drew 39 - Town by play. If Nancy is scum here, she deserves the win.
Flavor Leaf - Has repeatedly Towntold. Has been logical and incisive, and has had even less patience for foolishness than I have. I think he’d be way more indulgent as scum, just from a meta perspective.
Pine - I’ve seen my role PM.
thestatusquo - Mostly PoE, supported by his manipulative gameplay and targeted flattery of some and as hom attacks on others.
Ramcius - Was high on my PoE list, but if you read his ISO from the point I suggested, I think it shows him Town.
NorwegianboyEE - Like 95% scum. Has been supporting and defending Shea for quite some time now with practically no Towncase on him.
Akarin - Town by role.

My read is that Shea is a PR and Norwee has been doing everything to advance a Norwee/Pine dichotomy to protect him.

Okay so

If Norwee is 95% scum

If shea is only scum by PoE

Then what if norwee is the 5%

If you think it can be Shea + someone who isn’t Norwee why can’t it be Norwee + that person

[Mistyx]

okay so

can someone who is pushing shea walk me through the actual arguments against him

[Mistyx]

okay so

can someone who is pushing shea walk me through the actual arguments against him

I will, but I need the above question answered first.

Feel free to answer it yourself

FL would be my first guess, I could buy that it’s theater based off how they’ve progressed today

alternatively it isn’t theater and the two just naturally clash

[Mistyx]

pine i already answered

do you have a point against that

[Mistyx]

okay so

can someone who is pushing shea walk me through the actual arguments against him

I will, but I need the above question answered first.

Feel free to answer it yourself

FL would be my first guess, I could buy that it’s theater based off how they’ve progressed today

alternatively it isn’t theater and the two just naturally clash

Sorry, I didn’t miss this. I’ll address FL as a possibility once we keep exploring this path.

I know I am asking for some patience and trust, but it will be worth it.

okay

so since you now have a possibility outside of norwee/shea

can i get your case on shea individually

[Mistyx]

Flavor Leaf

Who is Norwee’s partner here, if not Shea?

Ramcius

if you're pocketing me, then you/ramcius

Nancy town reading Ramcius so much is making me paranoid because she town reads scum a lot

Please don’t start that again. I was right on Pooky and Lunar, so don’t do that to me. :(

also ye i agree thats kind of a gross argument

nancy's reads in this game are her reads in this game, regardless of anything in the past

[Mistyx]

Please stop with the hand wavey crap. If I'm scum say why in a way that you haven't already argued against wrt yourself. If ram is town say why in a way that is not just "at this point in time I removed him from my PoE."

this

[Mistyx]

@Misty
I’m still strongly opposed to your idea of using your vengeful shot to make game go back to odd number. Precisely because Pine could very well choose to no kill for WIFOM in the future and claim he blocked a shot in ElO. But that only really works if the game is in odd numbers. If an elimination happens and it’s even numbers then Pine no-killing would give town an extra mislim.
So in the event Pine is scum your idea is actually anti-town and therefore your vote is completely wasted on yourself today as i believe nobody should support it.

maybe

but maybe im planning on shooting pine

like ive been telegraphing most of today

[Mistyx]

i didnt want to discuss my planned target because i wanted to see how people would react to it

but this will get different reactions c:

[Mistyx]

i didnt want to discuss my planned target because i wanted to see how people would react to it

but this will get different reactions c:

But @Misty why would we vote for you when you’re very clearly bleeding obvtown here?

to activate my vengeful and get back to odd numbers without having to waste a day voting no elim

[Mistyx]

VOTE: pine

w/e

[Mistyx]

i mean

i still have not seen an actual case on shea apart from PoE

which is fine but the PoE argument is coming from other people in the PoE

so it doesnt actually hold up

[Mistyx]

i mean

i still have not seen an actual case on shea apart from PoE

which is fine but the PoE argument is coming from other people in the PoE

so it doesnt actually hold up

Can you provide good case against Pine?

well, yes

he's been approaching today in a way that fits agenda

when norwee stopped being a viable push, he switched to shea, and hasn't provided an actual argument for doing so

[Mistyx]

you can call me terrible all you want but when players start taking pushes so personally then the game stops being a game

if players really need to start insulting you on a personal level as a response to a push, no matter how shitty the push, then the game stops being a game for me

there was a lot wrong with this particular game, and i take my share of responsability - but holy fuck i did not like this playerlist at all

i have no personal beef with any of you outside of the Game of Mafia - but this was not a pleasant experience

/r

pretty much this

there were a lot of times where i was basically not reading the game because it was just personal attacks without any actual game aspects so i would just skip ahead

[Mistyx]

i dont think its exactly playing against win condition to concede if you dont think you have a win condition