Team Mafia 2018: Inventions Mafia Day 4

[Aneninen]

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Look, who's back!
Aren't you happy? Aren't you all happy? ^_^

[Aneninen]

VOTE: RadiantCowbells
Look, who's back!
Aren't you happy? Aren't you all happy? ^_^

Is this a pure RVS vote or are you of the "RC is conf scum due to swap" opinion?

Pure RVS.
RadiantCowbells seems to remember me as well, and that's the explanation behind the pigeon he posted.

[Aneninen]

So, both Spiffeh and Espeonage think Reckoner is scum.

They brought up the same thing I had noticed. I'm talking about eg. this:

think RC's team saw FB's slot/scumteam and RC swooped into the rescue but i can't vote there yet because i promised to policy RVS vote the spam squad

By that post RadiantCowbells

had clearly explained

the reason for the swap.

Althoug I'm back after one-and-a-half year and I've missed a lot, in Team Mafia, things like that explanation from RC is something

can be confirmed instantly

. So, in short, the swap in itself is null.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: xRECKONERx

[Aneninen]

Pure RVS.

please state for the record a single opinion you have about someone's alignment in this game because there is much content so far

Wow.
The game had been open for 40 minutes or so and I still didn't post any content. I'm sorry for not being able to scumhunt without reading the game (which I've been doing actually).

Can you stop ignoring Aninen Hindu it's weird

Can you stop ignoring Aninen Hindu it's weird

???

Why accuse Hindu of ignoring a player with two fluffposts an hour into the game?

Because he's harping on this Reck thing and it's weird as hell and I'd like him to stop

Is this kind of gameplay normal from Chesskid?
Or is he just trying to save Reckoner's aß?

[Aneninen]

So, both Spiffeh and Espeonage think Reckoner is scum.

Will the real Aneninen please stand up
and post for himself without being coached thanks

The real Aneninen is here, don't worry.
I'm coached because of the game mechanics. The team too wants to be involved in giving away the inventions.

Anenien how do you feel about hindu calling reck's push obvtown?

Having ISO'ed him I didn't see him calling Reck obv-town. What posts do you refer to?

Actually he was harping on the person defending Reckoner, not the person attacking Reckoner
@People who know CK3, how good is his scum game?

all i know is that he busses a lot more than most people would and that his posts so far are mostly nai for him
skirt skirt townreads him at least and i'd trust his read over my own - plus i like his vote so

All I heard is that Chesskid's gameplay has matched his town meta so far.

honestly the shitty thing about this table now that im looking at it again is that i feel like im going to be the weak link here

...?

[Aneninen]

Reck's obvtown so far but could maybe pull this in his best days as scum.

also are there any specific points regarding chesskid's meta that you know of? i'm assuming you're discussing this in your discord...?

I'm not sure whether it was for me or not. As for Hindu, mind the second half of the sentence too. I actually saw this reasoning plenty of times in every sort of combinations. (Town on town, town on scum, scum on town, scum on scum.)

...?

im mostly here for my friends

- i wanted to give playing mafia another shot but unless this game is particularly fun/not toxic im probably done for a while again

Null then, for the same reason as RC's swap. In Team Mafia, it can be confirmed easily.

[Aneninen]

For GuiltyLion's #155:
There must be pages where Team Mafia was emerging. And she must have meta on this page. Sorry if I'm not checking these right now but I need to work meanwhile.

[Aneninen]

and also Anenien if you've conluded katyusha's comments were null based on that explanation then why were you thinking that they might have been AI in the first place?

I simply didn't get the point of that comment nor the thing she referred to.

[Aneninen]

Okay so there's 3 outcomes.

Town hides behind Scum: in which case instant guilty.
Scum claims to hide behind anyone: Know something is up by lack of dying, lynch the scum, we lose the inno/guilty but kill scum
Town hides behind Town: 99% of the time scum takes the double kill and we just lynched 3 scummy people in one cycle
If they don't do that, we lynch the hider and end up with an inno.

I would like to think about this while I am not at 3:20 since I might be wrong but this seemed like the right play

Actually I've been thinking about something similar. I've asked my team about my logic and I'm waiting for their answer.
My idea is to give the Invention to a scummy player and tell them to hide behind another scummy one, which leads us to four possible outcomes. I've also realized the same problem as Mastin has in 196. However, even if the scum go for letting the two scummy-looking townies alive, there will be an invention on Day2 as well, and if that goes to a townie, scum have to choose between the conf-town and the bearer of the new invention.

Alternatively or in addition, we can make a fork for the Invention. I mean, if the Day1 lynch flips scum, hide behind X, if not, hide behind Y.

[Aneninen]

Because I've never played with him before, I asked the same question you linked from my team. That was the answer (147).
Also, I remember playing with players who had some similar attitude as town.
These two things are enough for me right now to think that he's town.

[Aneninen]

I have some time now.

(1) Am I the only one who thinks Primate produces very little useful content. Also, I don't get it where his vote in 216 came from.

(2)

I don't understand. I'm saying I didn't buy RC's explanation.
That was also prior to Shea or Keely being online. They've since both confirmed that Cabd and RC have major problems with each other and that it's not bullshit. Keely notes however that RC's expectation that Shea/Keely would've already briefed me on that note is "skeevy".

And I still think RC's story was a big null and you were trying to make a case out of it.

@Anen can you ask Spiffeh why he's shit pls i need good stronk town spiffeh here to talk you off the ledge

As far as I know I'm allowed to paraphrase something from the Team PT.

If not, @mod, I'm sorry and remove this

.

So, Spiffeh said that your vote for Creature had been very FoS, because he had had a chat with Cheetory, who's in the same team as you, Reckoner. This had happened before the Role PMs went out and it had been said that Creature is very easy to read, so if he had chosen a scum role that would have been terrible for your team.
This doesn't make much sense for me but it's possible that it gives some clues for other players.

Also, Espeonage also said that you are scum. Doesn't that bother you?

(3)

VOTE: cheeky

Case? Anything?


(4)

Ah - thought you agreed that the hider goes to someone scummy
speaking of which

elect: something_smart

Thought about it more and I think involving him in the hider situation is probably the better call than directly lynching him

because I can see partners bussing him here

Gtmh he hides behind like Hindu or Reck but I’m still kind of unsure how anenien/Hindu/reck actually tie together

Elaborate the underlined part, please!

Going on soon.

[Aneninen]

(1) That Katyusha/SomethingSmart conversation around 253 and later seems articifial. But I don't know, why. Yet.

(2)

2. I mean, mastina voted me blankly and hasn't returned to address it unless I've missed it somewhere. Until that is explained further, the read stays.

But didn't she do the same thing before, in other games?

(3) Katyusha's 281 is weird. I think it was obvious that Something_Smart had asked Reckoner.

(4)

VOTE: Aneninen

Where did that come from? I've just ISOed you and you hadn't posted a thing about me before that vote.

(5)

I think my initial read on cheeky was wrong

And what do you think now?

(6)

VOTE: cheeky

It's a bit late for naked votes don't ya think? Why did you vote me here?

Because I think you are scum.

Case? Whatever?

(7)

On the underlined part SS feels kind of lynchbaity because he’s in the sidelines mostly and it took me a while while questioning him to even know how he feels about the gamestate

If SS is scum I’d have a hard time clearing people for pushing or scumreading him as a result - scum can and will D1 bus weak partners if it comes down to that

As for the first thing: got it.
Second: I don't think they would bus that early. Especially in Team Mafia, where there are other players trying to get reads on games too.

[Aneninen]

@Anen: my vote was FoS? I don't understand what this means. My vote was "Finger of Suspicion"? No, it was an RVS vote. And yes, Keely told me Creature would be readable by the end of day one. But it was sort of a running in-joke on our team that we would all open the game in solidarity random voting the Spam Squad team, which Creature is a member of. And my game opened first so I was the first one to do it.

I don't know why Espeonage saying I'm scum would bother me?
The last game I remember playing with him was PBT4, where he was scum and tried to hide in my blind spot but I eventually woke up

No, it was very-FoS for Spiffeh.
Nevertheless, I've informed him about the answer.

[Aneninen]

I've just checked the game in a few minutes.
I'll have a lot of work today, so very little time.
But, I'll also start ISO-ing everyone to get as much reads as possible on players.

Meanwhile, can someone summarize me where that Mastin wagon came from?
All I can see is 8 posts and a gamestyle I've seen from her before, regardless of alignment.

[Aneninen]

UNVOTE:

I've just checked the game and saw that rage. Call me an idiot, but that I doubt that a player like Reckoner, who had been here for ages when I arrived, would post things like that as scum.

I'll check everyone (even if that will take some time). And I obviously need a closer look on Reckoner's posts to see whether his last page is genuine (I guess so now) or not.

[Aneninen]

RadiantCowbells: I don't have a townread on Reckoner. But, because of the latest things (that I saw when I checked the recents) made me think that my scumread could be wrong.

As for Mastina, during a break at work I took a look at her posts and yes, I saw her posting similar things as town.

But remember, these were merely quick answers.

[Aneninen]

Let's see some ISOs.

Reckoner

Things like his 18 "actually Kilby just responded and said you're good at scum and Firebringer is easily caught so that's his explanation" – are seriously scummy. I've expressed my opinion before. In addition:

why

would have chosen Firebringer a scum-slot in the first place? Teams were able to assign players to slots freely. If they had sent RC here originally, they wouldn't have had to swap at all. See?

There are, how-can-I-say, "let's be friends" kind of nulls, too. Like 61. Scum need to do that, not townies.

Double-checked his 228, that readlist may or may not be genuine. Too much scum indeed, but could be playstyle-thing, too. Somehow, his later explanation, starting from 277 gave me worse vibes, but I can't put my finger on it, why. I can't find the part where he had 8 scumreads.

In 466 he says, f-ck meta. Still, he's using meta as a tool, eg. in 275 and later, in that flamewallwhatsyt with Mastina. Erm...?

As for 663, his "the reasons i am working with chesskid:" – that would be terrible gameplay if both were scum. (This is an associative specualtion, though, which is not too efficient on Day1. But we should remember this later.) Also, from a scum-Reckoner, picking Chesskid as a "work partner" would be a terrible move, regardless of Chesskid's alignment.

Yet he votes for him in 682...!

Another thing we should remember later is his interaction with Something_Smart, around 696. This may be scum-scum conversation, a kind of "let's not ignore each other blatantly". But, this is, again, speculation.

And then starts that rage.

________

To tell the truth, it's

only

the rage part, with all those walls that looks town. Especially 955. But it's

still

there and I think a player can fake anything easier than a rage.

Right now, he'll be my

lean scum

read. As a reference to the other reads. I mean, does (anyone) look more scummy than him or not?


I'll ISO everyone later but now I need to go soon. I started with Reckoner because he seemed to be the most urgent one to get sorted.

[Aneninen]

Chesskid: what's wrong?

Katyusha. I'll check that when I'm ISO-ing you. Please wait, I need to go to work. Short posts only until I have some time again.

[Aneninen]

You have a person who literally opened the game by saying they invented the ragey playstyle that used to characterize my scumgame and you're townreading him for expressing anger. Like he is mad because he's getting lynched.

I don't know what to say rn.

But the context of the rage matters, too. Where was that "invented the ragy playstyle" said? I must have missed it.

[Aneninen]

Shyt I missed it indeed.
But the question is: would he use raging at this particular situation to survive as scum? He hasn't received town points from too many players.

[Aneninen]

More.

As for

Mastin

, I don't think I need break down all her posts.
I remember this kind of gamestyle from her very well. The "grab out a couple of posts and give one-word answers like "town", "scum", the relative absense and big walls included.
That was town Mastin. (Apart from a single game where she was actually SK, but she was scumhunting.)
I wouldn't say I'd give her a free pass just because of her style in mid- or late-game, but that's good enough for me on Day.

Town

________

Chesskid

is an interesting case.
102 was weird indeed. Why did he ask why Hindu had ignored me? As if he had posted about everyone else at that time.
For his 116 – "I don't really care if he's scum or not tbh it's page 5" I can only answer

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

His vote in 218 was WTF, too.

In his 364 "Aninen and Reck are scum but lets vote reck and ignore aninen" is horrible, but more alignment indicative of Mastina than Aninen and I still have to think about that" – is simply terrible. I'm not saying it's scummy but on a 1–10 scale of cleverness, it's a Beedrill.
Let me explain. Firstly, speculations about scum

teams

on Day1 rarely pay off. (I used to make the same mistake a lot.) Secondly, assuming you're speculating, I can't see

why

it gives more information on Mastin than on me.
Actually, it's more like a bad-town post than a scummy post.

378 is weird again. I mean the style he suggested things to Reckoner. 394 looks as if he tried to save Reckoner's Aß. In a very lame way – and here's the crux of the problem. Assuming he's scum,

why

did his team let him post things like this? (Regardless of Reckoner's alignment.)
Around this (and all along?) his tunnel on Mastin is terrible. But I've seen townies doing that before. Usually on another townie. Meanwhile, his reads are not progressing on other players.

As for his readlist in 513, my answer can be found in that spoiler above. Then, more and more tunnelling on Mastin. Will there be anything else in his ISO?
...no, sorry. I'm not reading this any more.

In short, I don't think he's scum. Unless the game has changed a lot since I left for a while, he's a kind of player I know well. Tunnelling the hell outta someone, not forming real reads on most of the players, posting a lot.
On the other hand, I can't rule it out completely that he's just simulating this kind of gameplay. In a classical game such faking might pay off, but in Team Mafia, where a lot of other players can read all the games, I doubt any scum team would go for something like this intentionally.

Mostly because of this paragraph above, he's

lean town

right now.

________

Screenplay

Naked vote in 231.
This in 234 "Mastina trying to elect RC feels like they are trying to set him up for a NK." doesn't make much sense for me.
442–443 aren't better either.
Also, he had done very little yet he was self-aware enough for this in 541: "I was left out. Am I hard to sort?" – It must have been a question for BigYoshiFan...

but there were other missing names in his post

! I really don't like the thing I've quoted!
I don't know how much experience he has with RC and Chesskid, but 594 may be about appeasing them. (It's hard for a scum when RC starts tunnelling them and this might be the same for Chesskid, too!)
The whole interaction can be read in 1037 tells me that he wants to get as many townreads as he can. Scum need townreads on them desperately, not townies! Similar interaction in 1174, this time with Creature.
1190 is a terrible readlist. With one single scum? By the way,

why does he need to care how Mastin reads him if he thinks she's scum?

TL;DR – he's trying to fly under the radar and collect a lot of townreads on himself.
With that said,

scum

.

[Aneninen]

And you've read it in less than one minute? Wow.

[Aneninen]

Sorry,

post-edit:

That's good enough for me on

Day1

.

[Aneninen]

Having checked

BigYoshiFan

, I daresay, either he's lazy-town, or he's busy IRL and town.
I liked the second part of 513, where he questioned the townread on him. (By that time he had produced zero content.)
535 is pretty empty... but I remember

my own gameplay

, and I used to posts such "lists" when I was town and I had too little time for reading the game. (And I usually got a couple of scumreads afterwards.) 538 fits this picture.
On the other hand, his vote for Chesskid in 552 came out of nowhere. But it may have been simply lazy.
So, 930 must be his gameplay when he's actually around. Good.
There's not much to say, I can give him a

town

read.

________

And you're gonna hate me but I refuse to sort

RadiantCowbells

on Day1.
My gut-read says he's town, this is his town-gameplay I've seen a couple of times before.
The problem is: he's just as aggressive and taking control of the town when he's scum.
The best thing I can do is to see where the game goes and I'll find it out whether my gut-read is correct.

Unsorted

, and unless something really unexpected happens, I don't think I'll able to change this Today.

[Aneninen]

Sorry,

post-edit:

That's good enough for me on

Day1

.

Can you send someone else on your team who actually wants to play mafia in to cover this game too thanks

No.
Our team's on a budget and all you can have here is this fairy-infected pigeon-poster.

[Aneninen]

Aneninen your read on me sucks.
You are reading out of context or something.

VOTE: Srceenplay

[Aneninen]

Mastin, RadiantCowbells.
Please, check what I posted about Chesskid on the previous page. Do you think it's impossible?
Meanwhile I've asked my team about him, too. Hopefully I get an answer by next morning.

Gotta go to bed now, it's late here.

[Aneninen]

Yoshi, Let me rephrase.
The short posts as she checks in PLUS the absence PLUS the long walls TOGETHER are the gameplay I saw from town-Mastin. I call her town Today, but a read base

alone

on these wouldn't be enough for eg. Day3.

But I'm really off to bed now.

[Aneninen]

Finally, some time.
I'm going along with the ISOs but first I'm asking: since I haven't read the new pates, is there anything new I should respond to immediately?

[Aneninen]

As for Chesskid, I'm not sold on him. My reasons were expressed in my post about him. I also asked my team about him but so far there hasn't been an answer. The Hider may target him, I guess.

No opinion about Hinduragi yet, so I'll start with him.

[Aneninen]

So, let's see

Hinduragi

.

His eintritt was a vote for Srceenplay in 29, along with a question: "How is firebringer as scum/town or what are his alignment preferences?" – which means he

had

read the game then and gave an RVS (? not sure). This is something we should remember if either him or Srceenplay flips scum. I mean, I can imagine it easily that a scum throws an RVS on one of his buddies. But now, it's null in itself. He was on that swap-topic a bit more later. And this lead to a townread on Reckoner in 75? I can't see how these add up.

Knowing RC's scumhunting his 81 "Noone's scared of RC" might be important

if

they've played together before. If so and he's scum now, I guess he may be

damm scared

of RC's scumhunting.

90 is a bit off after his townread on Reckoner. It looks like he's tiptoe-ing around that wagon, just in case. (No alignment information on Reckoner, though.) 96 confirms this. He seems to be ready for getting

any kind of

read on Reckoner. 101 too! First he expressed a townread on Reckoner, then he stated it was only a gut feeling and he wasn't defending him. Eiao? If someone has a townread, shouldn't they be against the lynch of a townie?

A townread on RC out of nowhere in 134. Appeasing him maybe???

More stuff about Reckoner, same style as above. And this!

Also mastina, I really want you to be town because I think you're a good person.

¹ I've only got townreads for now on Creature, RC, Reck, Katy, and

idk who else it was.

² I'm going to eat.

(1) Oh My Gods! It doesn't work in that way. Whether you like someone or not has

nothing

to do with their alignment! Zero correlation! Zilch! Yet again, what if he tries to prevent clashing with Mastina?
(2) That's not scumhunting! That's pigeon poop! Either he has a townread on someone or he has no read – even if he's actually about to find townies. I don't know doesn't make any sense. (Especially in a context where he

did

have time to express things about Reckoner!)
(3) No scumreads. Not a f-cking scumread at all!

573, 581 are the same. He's blatantly trying to prevent/avoid (?) conlficts. A good townplay is

not

about that! Scum need to have as few enemies in a game as they can!

Anyone, for 619 "But trying to rush the quicklynch is god awful" – was that actually a real threat at that time?

666 It could be merely my intuition but now I strongly feel that he

is

afraid of RC!

687 makes no sense.

In 693 he says (again) Reck's town. Then unvotes? His vote had been on Srceenplay 'till then. This doesn't add up.

Without examining it's context, what he quoted in 707 may or may not have been genuine, but the same goes for his reaction and his vote. Also, am I right?

Was Cheekin his first scumread ever?

808 "Don't convince Katy please.

I want to live past N1.

" – That's not how this game is played. Unless you have a town-PR (which is not possible right now in this Setup), townies

must

be ready to die any time if they can take a scum with them into non-existence in any way. (Or at least, I play like this.)

In 825 he votes for me and he

didn't even mention

me in that post. As far as I can remember at that time voting for me was

definitely

not about putting some pressure on a player.

His vote for Yoshi in 1291 was just as terrible. All that he said was (and is) 100% unconfirmable. And yet again, it's not about building up pressure.

1333 is seriously off assuming I've examined the context carefully.


TL;DR – All I can see is that he's trying to maintain a good relationship with everyone,

without doing ANY scumhunting

. He only has townreads, one of his scumreads (Yoshi) is backed only by facts told him by his team and the other one (Aneninen) has never been explained.
I haven't read what others posted on him so I don't know what they found. But this I've expressed right above

alone

tells me that he's

scum

trying to keep away from trouble all the time.

[Aneninen]

I guess I have time for another player, which's going to be

Katyusha

.

Her early-content is quite empty, apart from the fact that she wasn't sold on the case against Reckoner. Plus speculations on the way we should use the Hider. Pretty much null.

Was two fluffposts enough for her for a vote on me in 111? Could be. Did she join a wagon because she hoped a quicklynch as scum or wanted to see my reactions on the wagon as town? Both are possible.

149 might have been about low self-confidence or might have come from a scum keeping on trying to fly under the radar.

(Meanwhile, Katyusha, do you remember our conversation about Hindu? In the post above you can find more answers. The difference is: right now I spent more time on the game than I was able to at that time.)

I don't know which list she was talking about in 248.

Her posts around 260 look okay. I remember having problems with that earlier, but checking the whole ISO of her, it seems to be natural to her playstyle after all. Later I found similar interactions with others, eg. RadiantCowbells.

I don't know where here townread on me in 362 came from. I thought she had been scumreading me.

And I don't get the read on Mastin in 774. I mean, have we agreed yet how we the Hider should use? If not, it looks weak as a case.

Still, I can see a townie behind her readlist, 789. Assuming she missed a couple of things while she was reading. And partly gut. And her 847 would make very little sense as scum. I've seen townies doing the same kind of "reset" before. Her vote for Reck and her reasoning shows that she

genuinely

started over everything from scratch.

Answering your question in 990, what you posted is a possibility. But Reck's not a priority for me right now.

Not sure what to think of her 1494. (Sheeping townie? Opportunistic scum? No idea.) On the other hand, the finding in 1527 matches my thoughts, only she phrased them differently. (Or I mis-read what she'd wanted to say. Check above!)

TL;DR – though there are some disturbing bits, eg. in her read progressions, I can see a townie behind most of her posts. My all-aroud gut says the same.

Lean town

.

[Aneninen]

Cheeky, I wanted to check one more ISO first. Then I wanted to have a VC too to avoid an accidental Hammer or L–1. (When I was playing a lot, there were a lot of Lolhammers, which was terrible.) But if I've added the votes correctly, it's not L–1 with me, so

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hinduragi

Srceenplay, you're still not under the radar!

Also, can someone summarize whom we plan to Elect and why?

[Aneninen]

Okay, I'm modifying my read.
Katyusha is

strong town

.

Not only because of the content of the posts (1564–1565), but also because of the

style

and the

timing

of them.

I think if she were scum, she would do something like

"great, I've just got a lean town read, hurray, let's move on and see whom our team could and/or have to get rid of"

.
But what sort of attitude was that? It was like:

"good, you think I may be town. I think you may be town, too. But don't leave my radar, let's talk more!"

That attitude wouldn't help scum at all!

[Aneninen]

Also RC I would ask you to take a look at how easy and loveydovey it is on your side of the playing field to get anyone to vote any of me/chesskid/Hindu and get everyone to collaborate
If you're town, that should be a big ass giant red flag for you. Way too much collaboration. There's scum in your midst.

I'm back later but this sounded as if Reckoner knew for sure that RadiantCowbells was town.
However, if my gut about it is wrong, it's something we should definitely remember.

[Aneninen]

Ugh. My bad. I was just popping in in the middle of the work and I wasn't even thinking about your previous posts. But the part after "However..." in my 1598 stays.

I can't imagine how Katyusha could be scum at all. Have you checked her interaction with me which happened a couple of hours ago? Would a scum keep on interacting in a situation like that? With a player who's not even among'st the most important ones?

[Aneninen]

I can't imagine how Katyusha could be scum at all. Have you checked her interaction with me which happened a couple of hours ago? Would a scum keep on interacting in a situation like that? With a player who's not even among'st the most important ones?

I think scum also tend to think noise = content = townieness so yes I do think scum would interact for the sake of interacting

What you're saying is true. But, there are three things in this particular case which you should consider.

Firstly, having ISOed Katyusha, I had a lean town read on her. That became a strong town read after our interaction. Not a null read or a scum read.

Secondly (and I don't think I should explain this to you), scum don't post without any purpose. They're planning lynches, framing townies, fueling town-vs-town fights, etc. There

are

scum who are simply post to survive, but I doubt this may happen in Team Mafia. Basically, behind every single scum there's a team, and they're paying close attention to a scum-member. (That's not empty speculation, we were doing this in the last Team Mafia.)

Thirdly, instead of shutting down the interaction after I expressed my read on her, she kept me on her radar and by doing so, she refused to leave my radar, too. I may imagine scum doing so, but with a more significant partner than me. Eg you, RC, Mastin or Chesskid. My influence on this game is much smaller right now. If she were scum my townread wouldn't matter a lot.

Today or tomorrow I'll go on with my ISO-s. But I wanted to answer this a couple of hours ago and I ran out of time. IRL things.

Also, I'm less and less sure about my scumread on Reckoner after our latests. Right now he's

null

. (Null is not the same as unsorted in my reads. Null means "may or may not be scum", unsorted means I can't get a read on him/her.)

[Aneninen]

Mobilepost.
Why did Chesskid start posting in a different style?

[Aneninen]

More ISOs.

Creature

posts only one-liners. No real content, only reactions, but at least, some questions too. It seems to be a common knowledge (?) that he's terrible at being scum. Therefore, he must be town. I guess, this must be his townplay because if it weren't so, there would be votes on him. Still, what if he picked scum because noone expects that?
If I ignore that "common knowledge", I don't have much to say. I've seen this playstyle from townies and from scum too.

Null

.

________

Checking

Cheeky

, 33 is terrible. No content, but launching an irrelevant question: "Why is OMGUS not spelt OMGYS?", which has nothing to do with scumhunting.

In 48 she votes for GuiltyLion, no case presented.

74 and 42 don't add up. If she thought my vote on RC was scummy,

why

did she ask me whether it was an RVS? Acually she responded to the same thing from Chesskid in 198. Why?

156 looks contentful, but it's empty.

166's "You want me to stop pushing others for reasons of their read on someone who I feel I can weigh a reaction against? You being the reason we got out of RVS is probably why people are making reads on you that I happen to be pushing. But by all means lead the way and tell me how to play this game :/" – but she hadn't pushed anyone!

198: "I've never seen a post like this come from scum before. This is what I mean by "too scummy to be scum"" – Pigeon poop.

210 and the next one seems fabricated. For example, she moved her vote on GuiltyLion earlier (no reasoning), and now he's among Cheeky's townreads. Whut?

243 is sooooooo fake. "Thanks for the obv NK nomination :/" As if townies should be afraid of getting Nightkilled. As if there weren't a Hider.

406 Erm, vote, post-edit, vote? Cases? Whatever?

This is interesting. In 428 her posting style changed. I'm not 100% sure, but it seems, right at the moment when people stared scumreading her?

In 473 she voted for Mastina. When that wagon seemed to gain momentum. Wow. In 517 she looks worried.

In 600 she voted for Chesskid. Another popular wagon. And check out how she's talking to RC in 603. Now, check out eg. 453. SEE?

618 makes no sense.

685 " I dunno about mastina still, I have some thinking to do. I can get on a reck wagon " – She could get on

any

wagon, I guess.

I'm not going on with this, because the later part of the ISO is the same. No cases, she's ready to follow any wagon, sometimes cheeky (lol) remarks, no scumhunting.
Regardless of the fact their team is swapping (post-edit: which is not happening?), I can see nothing townish in her ISO.

Scum

.

[Aneninen]

@Anen: I mean that's fine and all but like if one of your scummates is in the {mastina/Reck/chesskid/RC} clusterfuck, your best move is to engage people outside of it at that point, and I think Katyu does exactly that with you. And you spell it out: it makes sense if Katyu is scum with one of the louder people. And I think they are.

I'll think about this later. You may have a point. But, as I said, it's not only our interaction why I townread her. Also, that namelist (did you include yourself?) are not among'st my scumreads. Plus, it's scumteam speculation, which is not a good idea on Day1. Maybe later, when we have flips.

[Aneninen]

Quickpost.

I don't have much time today, but I hope I can finish my ISOs.

Also, it's a kind of note to self: two things need to be expressed later. One is a vague and remote idea for a situation where all my scumreads are wrong. The other one is for the Hider.

As for this. Shouldn't we agree at least about the way we're using the Hider?

[Aneninen]

ISOs, ISOs...

Something_Smart

starts out with short reactions. Though, in 119 he noticed the same thing as I did (and others).

259 and 261 are

too

cautious. I don't know whether it's an intentional style for this game or normal for him. The same goes for the latter part of that interaction. (Yes, I know I'm there for the third time.) However, 278 is something I don't like. Reckoner had expressed his reads compared to his teammates', put him among his scumreads. Then S_S asked back instantly whether he was scumread by Reck's team. (There was no info about him from Reck's team.)

Quite a lot of empty posts. Like this, in 296: "Not necessarily... because early game scumreads are very often low-quality (especially in a 3:12 game) and because scum like to distance whenever they think they can get away with it."

Too cautions reactions, like in 306. Katyusha posted there could be

one/i] scum among Hindu, him and me. And he answered this: "This is a bad thing to say early on." One scum in three names? That's close to statistics!

308 "It's easier as town to find things to scumread than it is to find things to townread." – Erm, didn't he say earlier that he had been collecting townreads?

Reading on, mostly the two things I mentioned above. Cautiousness and emptiness. I could bring up many of those posts.

1497 is a reall wall, compared to his other posts. May or may not be genuine. However, his later posts (1500+) are better. I can see some reasoning there. And 2014 is a kind of content I've been waiting for all along reading his ISO.

He's slow. Sluggish. It's may be his playstyle but the first part of his posts were terrible, I expressed above, why. The second part is entirely different: it tells me that he's actually reading the game and scumhunting. (Can anyone tell me whether his townplay is always similar?)

That said, he's settled in the

null

spectrum. For now.

________

Primate

hasn't done a lot so far. Some interaction with Mastin and Cheeky, than a naked vote for Something_Smart. Generally, he seem to care about very few players but it could be because of IRL things. (?)

Null

.

________

GuiltyLion

gets involved a bit in that RC-swap topic, then has a naked vote for me. (Although his later posts show some reasoning behind.) Long pause, long pause, then that 1500-ish part looks okay. 1515 looks genuine. (As for a couple of things I can share his views. See my ISOs.) That okay-feeling stayed during the end of the ISO.

Nothing particularly scummy, but I want to see more content.

Lean town

.

________

As for

Errantparabola

, I simply don't have time nor energy for reading all of his posts.

Null

.

________

A quick summary's coming in my next post.

[Aneninen]

This is the summary. The names are not ordered inside of a category. Null means the player may or may not be scum. Unsorted means that I'm unable to get a read right now.

Town

Mastin
BigYoshiFan
Katyusha

Lean town

Chesskid
GuiltyLion

Null

Reckoner
Creature
Something_Smart
Primate

Lean scum

(No names here right now)

Scum

Srceenplay
Hinduragi
CheekyTeeky

Unsorted

RadiantCowbells
ErrantParabola

[Aneninen]

1669. Noted. I'm off to work so I repeated it and I'll find it in my own ISO

[Aneninen]

Chesskid, as for your 1669.

(1) I'm not sure whether using such a thing is legal. But it's definitely not my job to decide it.
(2) I don't think this story is confirmable in any way which is not against the rules. So, even if that program exists and works well, we can't be sure whether it was used on Mastina or not.
(3) As for Mastina. I must admit not reading all of her posts. But I checked some of them eg. during the breaks at work. I still think her gameplay matches her town meta I know. However, I'm aware of it that my information on players is outdated, 1.5 years old.
(4) If I had too few scumreads, I would take a closer look on her. But now she's not a priority for me. As I said before, giving her a free pass

only

because of meta reasons is happening on Day1, but I won't do the same in mid-game.
(5) The end of the post is speculation, which is rarely useful on Day1. I don't think Mastina's alignment has anything to do with RC's or vice versa.
(6) Why did you post this?

"Lynch chesskid.

If

town, lynch Mastina."

Why did you use the word "if"?

[Aneninen]

2) I don't think this story is confirmable in any way which is not against the rules

its existence and effectiveness have been confirmed in completed games and there are many players in team mafia who can attest to this.

I guess there are other players being able to confirm this.

Therefore it carries the same weight as a cop guilty and needs to be treated as such by every player in this game.

No, it's

very far

from Cop guilty. Firstly, noone can know it for sure whether you used that program on Mastina. Secondly, even if you did so, there's

no

100% guarantee that it analysed Mastina correctly.

Either I am scum faking it or Mastina is scum.

That's, unfortunately, not true. It's also possible that the program you used makes you over-confident about your reads, and both you and Mastina are town. And we can't rule it out that both Mastina and you are scum and this whole story about that analysis is pigeon poop. (Although I don't think this latter one is too likely.)

Ive said this before but I'll say it again, RCs actions in this game make just as much if not more sense as a mastina buddy going hard in the paint to save mastina than a pants on head town.

Once mastina flips scum and Im dead he's going to continue being loud and controlling, despite claims that he only did so to save mastina. As sane/obvtown voices like Hindu, Reck die I don't trust he will actually be lynched, and it 100% needs to happen.

This is worth pigeon poop if Mastina flips town. If Mastina gets lynched and she flips scum, we'll take a close look on RadiantCowbells. (But in this case we should take a close look on plenty of other players too. Eg. me.)

What you're saying about RadiantCowbells is not impossible. I saw that gameplay from him before and I definitely don't want to see it here. But right now I don't have an idea whether we see the aggressive town-RC or the aggressive scum-RC.

By the way, if that program

really

works so perfectly,

why

haven't you examined other players too? Eg. RadiantCowbells? Reckoner?


As far as point 6, it's simply to lay out a clear conditional.[/quote]

[Aneninen]

I wasn't aware that having what you consider fluff posts (posts devoid of scumhunting) early game, was indicative of scum. I have a feeling you might be tonedeaf.

Yet there were players thinking my early game fluff had been scummy.

Why would I present a case on my RVS vote? This is terriblly strechy shading. It makes me feel like you have an agenda.

You had voted for RC, in 27. So, which one was the RVS?

Your entrance felt awkward to many, you being my first serious push/question of the game implies I think you're scummy.

See above in this post. My entrance was scummy whereas your one wasn't and you can't imagine that someone didn't like it.

I think my playstyle confuses a lot of people. I am a reaction test player who likes to keep the game interesting as well as find scum.

Yeah, reaction testing.

'Was that an RVS?'
'Yes, it was.'
'Good. You're scum.'

I'm more interested in figuring out Aneninen. His case on me doesn't feel genuine at all.

Don't like it =/= don't think it's genuine.

[Aneninen]

By the way,

Almost50 wants to know how likely an Anenian lynch is.

What the f--- was this?

Lol yeah I told him no chance.

With this answer?

________

You know, and this is not only for you, I've been watching something for a while. There are players giving me a "could be scum" read. But, most of them say things like "the scum team is XXXX/YYYY/Aneninen" or "what if QQQQ is scum with Aneninen".

I'm saying something else. What if the scum team has me as a plan B mislynch?

I know this sounds pigeon poop right now, but you should check all the people who were tiptoe-ing around after I've flipped. For this piece of information it's irrelevant whether I'll get lynched or Nightkilled.

[Aneninen]

You know,

and this is not only for you

, I've been watching something for a while.

Who's overreacting then?

[Aneninen]

Can you point out where I'm overreacting?

Yeah this is an overreaction and

double down on your shitty Cheeky scum case

. RC tell me I'm not insane.

Let's ignore the fact that I'm voting for another scumread of mine.

Also, why have you summoned RC to this post? Can't you cope with the situation alone?

Can you also at least pretend you've read my responses to your case and tell me why I'm still scum?

I think everything I posted about you before is still true. Plus, it's amazing how you evaded to give a real answer for my 2168 and 2175. The more I read you the scummier you look.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CheekyTeeky

[Aneninen]

Chesskid

. Let me explain it.

(1) How many times has that program worked so far? Once? Twice? If there were at least 20

proven

occasions I might believe it works.

(2) Even so, I daresay, it would be banned – or all players would learn how to "out-smart" it and soon it would be worth pigeon poop.

(3) Most importantly,

Mafia is not played like that

. I would rather have, say, a 30-page LyLo with you and RC where I am to find out which one of you the scum is, than use a program to solve it with no effort. Seriously.

Unfortunately we are either lynching myself or Mastina today so if you want your vote to carry weight you need to choose between the two

Call me stubborn, but I still don't like this idea. If I'm right and neither of you is scum, this would help the scum. Period.

[Aneninen]

VOTE: Chesskid
Adenine sheep me here if you're town please.

If there were very little time, eg. 1 day left, I'd join either wagon.
Why do you think Chesskid is the best possible lynch?

[Aneninen]

*Post-edit.

I'd join the wagon on the player whom I find scummier.
(Sorry, I got distracted while posting.)

[Aneninen]

If this is OMGUS I don't know what is. You've failed my live interaction test unfortunately. But I will respond to the posts you've kindly asked me to, forgive me they got lost in the chaos and i was only partway done with responding to your ISO dig on me.

Yeah. Voting for someone whom I've been scumreading is the definition of OMGUS.
As for your reaction test,

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

I'm waiting for your answers.

[Aneninen]

You know you sound like everyone who thought Deep Blue was going to get crushed, or Watson couldn't play Jeopardy, or AlphaGo was going to get crushed, etc etc yes?

Are all the other players here agree that we should trust a programme instead of getting reads in the conventional way? If so, I'll step back.

[Aneninen]

If there were very little time, eg. 1 day left, I'd join either wagon.
Why do you think Chesskid is the best possible lynch?

Because he's forcing the game to come down to a choice between those two possible lynches.
If there's enough support that backs lynching GL or Srceenplay and putting the hider on 1/2 of Chess/Mastina I would be fine with that as well.

In my very first game on MafiaScum I was doing the very same. (Although without any kind of "scumputer".) I got involved in a classical "you or me" fight, communicated everything badly and kept shouting "lynch him or lynch me! I know who the scums are and either lynch will confirm me! Blah, blah." Needless to say, both of us were town. Even if I solved the game at LyLo, I had so little town credit that I got lynched.
I too think Chesskid doesn't help town with this gameplay, but I don't think he's scum. Therefore, he's not a good lynch.

I'd rather lynch Srceenplay.
What do you think of Cheeky?

[Aneninen]

Hint:

No, I really shouldn't because every post TODAY not spent deciding whether we are lynching
Chesskid -> Mastina -> RC
or Mastina -> RC
is a post that creates chaos and gives chances for people to lose their grip on the guilty and the plan

So be it VOTE: Chesskid

Isn't it strange how eagerly Cheeky voted for Chesskid in the middle of a fight with me (whom she, as far as I know, scumreads)?

[Aneninen]

Joined: August 09, 2010
Please have more faith.

As if I hadn't f-cked things up later. For example RC could tell you stories.
And I guess I'll f-ck things up in the future, too.
That means nothing.

[Aneninen]

The same thing I said to Cheeky about you applies to you about Cheeky. There's 1.5 scum in Mastina + RC, so while you might think you have something your odds are bad.

Show me using Mastina's

posts

why she's scum.
If I drew Tarot for the game and I said, the scum are Yoshi, Reckoner and Errant, would you believe me? I've been into Tarot spreads for more than 22 years! Ask Fferyllt, we had a talk about it!

There's a lot of things you're just turning a blind eye to because you want to be the authority on how to play mafia.

Me? Authority?

Spoiler:

For this

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP

I had to sit down.

When did I say that?
I'm back after 1,5 years and I don't even think I'm a particularly good player!

[Aneninen]

Yeah.
And if you can find a pigeon in my ISO, that means I'm either town or not. Trust me, it works!

[Aneninen]

That made my day, Something_Smart

[Aneninen]

(Sigh) Let's try it in a different way.

Chesskid

.



This is Arkana.
Your posts made her sad.
Please, stop what you're doing so that she can be happy again.

[Aneninen]

I've read Errant's catchup. Although I seriously disagree with some of his reads (eg. Cheeky as town, Katyusha as scum, dafuq?), I can see a town mindset behind his posts.

On the other hand

I'm good for either. Would still prefer Kat lynch. Ellitell doesn't have any particular bearing on me. I wouldn't mind lynching you then mastina and it worries me that people aren't really considering that option.
At this point I don't really have a read on mastina. (Ugh, now it's more town than anything) There's just too much to piece through and getting caught up is my first priority, I'll go back and give things another glance.

Please, elaborate.
You're good for either lynches. If you don't believe in "Ellitell", why do you think we should consider Chesskid's idea? Especially if you have no real read on Mastina and Chesskid was in your "in the middle" list.

Hi EP, thank you for obv. Towning

. Could you please take a look at the last few Aneninen/Cheeky interactions and tell me what you think of it?

I'd like to ask the same, Errant. (Any actually everyone else who haven't checked it yet.)
I don't like the underlined part either. Why need a townie thank someone for a townread?
Also, 1668, 1683, 1706, 1717. She wanted to ask for a swap from her team then she realized it couldn't happen. That's not the same as RC's pre-game swap. Didn't she know that they had used up the swap? If not: If se were annoyed at RC and Chesskid, wouldn't she think that another player would be just as annoyed? Plus, electing self meanwhile? That seems to be a fake-ragequit for me.


From now on, I'm ignoring Chesskid as long as he's posting about his Elli-idea. Show me why Mastina is scum

by using her posts

or:

A: You make a full readlist by putting everyone into it

That!

And, again, even if they’re not entirely accurate I see zero reason to not at least out the other tells (e.g., “Anen let out a weak scumtell of theirs”). Just who and what. There’s literally zero reason to not share and it only helps your credibility

THAT!

Also, what's the plan behind electing Reckoner? I could sheep that, but I need some explanation first.

[Aneninen]

Cheeky

,
let me get it. You don't have a read on Mastina nor Chesskid. Your vote is on Chesskid. And you suggest Mastina getting policy lynched if she doesn't catch up. And you call her a spammer.
I can't see a town mindset behind this.
Could anyone who's townreading her explain me why?

Also,
We are not policy lynching anyone. Period.

[Aneninen]

RadiantCowbells, what you said in your 2304 is something that I 100% agree with.

[Aneninen]

Cheeky

. I'm not misrepresenting you. But let's assume for a split second that I'm misinterpreting you. Since I have to work meanwhile, I can't promise that I'll re-ISO you today. So, those who are townreading her could point it out for me what towntells I haven't found (or misinterpreted).

[Aneninen]

UNVOTE:

[Aneninen]

Alternatively, Chesskid could use his "Elli-tell" to check if Cheeky or me are scum. TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

[Aneninen]

Cheeky

. I'm not misrepresenting you. But let's assume for a split second that I'm misinterpreting you. Since I have to work meanwhile, I can't promise that I'll re-ISO you today. So, those who are townreading her could point it out for me what towntells I haven't found (or misinterpreted).

You're 100% misrepping me. There's zero assumption needed.

If

you're town, it's indeed 100%. If not, it's either 0% or I'm scumreading the right person for wrong reasons.
That'swhy I'm asking others about you.

[Aneninen]

Got the joke.
But. One slow-moving, stubborn, pigeon-posting idiotic Aneninen is enough for this game, Cheeky. I don't think we need another one. ^_^

[Aneninen]

Indeed, I often do ISOs. One of these cases when a game starts out really quick and I simply don't have enough time to read everything. No surprise that I may miss certain things or contexts. But it still gives me a general impression, a kind of read which can I improve later. (I'm talking about Day1 ISOs now.)

But,

Cheeky

, I owe you an answer too.
As for my 2175, you think that I was too worried.
I've seen it in many games, especially on Day1 and when the Deadline gets closer, that suddenly a wagon is set off out of nowhere. A wagon scums were tiptoe-ing around before with "null", "lean scum" or similar reads on the lynchee, while their votes are somewhere else. Then some of them jump on without the need of expressing a case. (Some but not all. Only the needed amount. And sometimes none of them!)
I noticed that there are quite a few players doing the same tiptoe-ing right now. It's a

possibility

that I'm in or will be in that very same situation. Pointing out it is (you're right here!) useless

right now

, but can be useful

later

if it ever happens. If not (eg. I get Nightkilled any Night or lynched later), the whole thing tells us nothing.

RC

, were there questions in your post? I have taken a look at it but I haven't read it thoroughly. I'm working meanwhile.

[Aneninen]

Wasn't it announced officially that there are 3 scum in each game?
Besides, I wouldn't call a 1-Shot Hider who's known to all a strong PR.

[Aneninen]

Elect: Reckoner

What if we have him Hide behind Mastina?

[Aneninen]

Catching up soon.

[Aneninen]

Errrant's 2358 looks okay.

Master Plan

• 1. Everyone who is pending (you all got nice personal messages, please answer them!) checks in that they will be good sheep after my lynch
  
• 2. Creature/Reck/Cheeky Teeky is elected, I literally don't care.
  
• 3. Wagon me to L-2
  
• 4. Wait for me to post (this is probably the most important step!)
  
• 5. =================[]

It may sound strange from me but right now I have no objections. Or at least, up to point 4.
The following part will sound terrible, I know, but: I had a talk at my Team PT and I

indeed

arrived at a kind of conclusion. It would have been even better if I had asked the Mod earlier. Because, my reasoning contains parts which would be against the rules to post them. So, I need to find another way to explain a thing or too but I have to omit some major facts. This shall happen later and in a form which leaves no crumbs for the forbidden parts. Sorry.

why can't we lynch hindu and let me hide behind mastina

Both are okay for me.

and we're still lynching me

I just can't believe it that his team lets him play like this. Regardless of alignment.

OPTIONS

• 1. Lynch Chesskid - Follow Master plan
  
• 2. Lynch Mastina
  
• 3. Lynch anyone else, Chesskid gets hider and bombs RC

(1) See above.
(2) Bad idea.
(3) Too vague, and I don't see according to your logic why RC and not Mastina.

Ok can we finish today now?

These sort of posts from Cheeky are pinging me in a bad way. I may be wrong about her since almost everyone else is townreading her. But still, I can't see how these fit into a town mindset. Also, posts like eg. 2341 can be faked easily by a scum, too. I've done such things before.

I'll take hider and hide behind RC if we lynch mastina. I'm also happy with BYF or Creature doing it.

If we happen to lynch Mastina (which i still don't fancy), will you hide behinde RC regardless of the flip? Shouldn't you choose me?

I'm saying something else. What if the scum team has me as a plan B mislynch?

I know this sounds pigeon poop right now, but you should check all the people who were tiptoe-ing around after I've flipped. For this piece of information it's irrelevant whether I'll get lynched or Nightkilled.

This is a hella overreaction to Cheeky

questioning

Ane and is rubbing me the wrong way. He's overselling this worry and isn't concerned. "check my tip-toers after I flip" when he hasn't a chance of being wagoned isn't a thing except when someone is nervous.

There will be more about that later.

Ok but you dont tell a cop with a guilty to stop tunneling so don't tell me to stop

Your post about that Elli-read is

very far

from a Cop read. Period.

*Post-edit.
I'd join the wagon on the player whom I find scummier.
(Sorry, I got distracted while posting.)

I'm just saying this -- seems like pigeon is being very careful about his posting in order to avoid being called out

You called that scummy, yet you had no problems with Cheeky's 2341. Weird.

why can't we lynch hindu and let me hide behind mastina

my team is increasingly more & more sure that mastina/hindu just makes so much fucking sense

Yeah, nope, but blaming it on dat team SURE DOES make it easy to justify your turn on me.
Reck is scum.

Unvote; Vote: Reck

As if other players had never mentioned team reads in their arguments.

Mod, please check Post 2544! I'm not sure it is allowed!

<----- That was not an alignment tell, on the other hand.

Hindu please don't do this

What was your problem there?

[Aneninen]

Hi BYF!

Are you interested in lynching Guiltylion?

Why do you think it's the best thing we can do?
As for your 2587, Hindu is not better. Nor Cheeky.

I think you missed the part where I told you I'm not in this game anymore. I posted all that before it was official. You guys are lynching whoever comes in after me.

Wait what?

Wait, what?
(Found an answer for that, but it's still "Wait, what?", but for another reason. And I don't think we should talk about it here. See the highlighted part in my previous post.)

congrats, players of this game: you've ruined the team mafia experience for so many people theyve given up
what a fun game

It's not over yet.

Cheeky

, can't we go on with our fight? In a good old MafiaScum way? Throwing things like "misrepresenting", "scumtalk", "deathtunnel" etc. at each other? Just to rail the game back to a kind of atmosphere where it should be? Don't stay away from the game now! (Also, I expect at least two scumreads for this paragraphs, one from Cheeky is mandatory.)

Aneninen I think someone pointed this out earlier, the way he's been giving ISOs and reads felt a bit detached from being involved in the actual narratives of the game and avoiding committing to a real trajectory.

Like it or not, that's what I had time for. I know it's not the best gameplay, though, but I had a lot to do IRL.

Maybe that discussion did happen in the background but as far as I can tell he doesn't mention any of his team's opinions on it.

See above! The exact topic must remain unrevealed.

Your 2638. I remember posting a similar answer when I was scum (but I don't know the game. Maybe more than once). That doesn't mean that you're scum because of that. I have no arguments why, but your post gave me bad feelings.

Guiltylion instead of doing whatever you're doing can you just give a readslist with some reasons

point me to your reasoned readslist first

GuiltyLion first.

Firstly, this thing on GuiltyLion is the precursor of an apathy wagon if I've ever seen it. No thanks.

I have the same fear.

Hinduragi is still a scumbag.

I think the same.

As far as updated reads, I think considering the Hindu replace out and RC push on me, I'm moving closer to this
definite town: {Reck, BYF, Creature}
more probably town but maybe a scum is in here: {Hindu, Smart, Anenien, Cheeky, Katy}
most scum probably here: {EP, Mastina, Primate, RC, CK, Srceenplay}

Tell us more about Errant, Primate and Srceenplay.

[Aneninen]

Mastina is objectively 100% scum

No. 100% = Someone flipped scum.

Cheeky. So, if you were the Hider, why wouldn't you pick me? I'm your strongest scumread, aren't I?

[Aneninen]

Catching-up.

Anenien did you get to the later part of this conversation? It was pretty clear to me at the time that RC only wanted a "reasoned readslist" to spin it as scummy and he basically admitted as much in 2645

No, I simply agreed that you should post your readlist first. Which happened, so this is not a story any more.

Primate is more POE than anything else, when I went through his ISO again I didn't see anything extremely town or unfakeable by scum, so I don't have a good read on his alignment beyond base probability and he's below anyone who I've felt has made townie posts.

I guess Singersinger has changed the picture in either way, hasn't she?

I didn't like a few things about Errant's catchup [...] And the Katy push feels like a classic scum push where you pick a player who's not particularly town/scumread and hasn't drawn a lot of discussion and start pushing them because it gives you something to do, you know it won't get too much negative attention, and it might result in a compromise deadline lynch.

What you said is true, generally speaking. Whether it's true for Errant, I'm not sure. But I'll keep my eyes open. Up to this point I had no problems with his posts.

Srceenplay has been active lurking in a sense, he's pushing this Mastina/Yoshi/Anen angle occasionally but mostly just not really posting anything that actually makes an impact or opens him up to conversation. I don't like any Yoshi scumreads and his actual presented reasons for voting Mastina are basically because "Boon said to", I haven't seen him draw the actual connection between Mastina's play and why it's scum-indicative.

I will let you reread my iso and try again

I don't like this answer. Although, one thing is clear: in Srceenplay's posts there were more things than nothing, that is true on the other hand. (I didn't like his posts either.)

To people townreading EP besides Chesskid, why? If your reason is basically "I liked their catchups", how does it compare to Anenien's catchups to you?

Wasn't it me who liked his catch-up?

Cheeky. So, if you were the Hider, why wouldn't you pick me? I'm your strongest scumread, aren't I?

This is objectively (lol) ignorant of the current state of the game. In order to get a lynch through step 1 is to get the hider plan sorted/hammered. The majority seem to want to use the hider to resolve the mastina/rc/chesskid problem, so I offered myself to solve the problem in line with this plan.¹
I voted to lynch you because you're currently my biggest scum read, but again taking into account the likelihood of your lynch this day phase and the possibility GL could be scum I am happy to jump on his wagon and keep my FoS pointed at you.²
Aneninen would you mind compiling all your reads into a list?³

(1) That's an answer I liked.
(2) Also understandable.
(3) That will come after my catch-up.

EPs catch up resonated with me because a lot of their stances on the game state as they progressed followed my own thoughts. I believe EP's catch up is much stronger than Aneninen's because she didn't focus on ISO picking to determine her reads and she took the whole game and interactions into account.

Okay, let me tell you something even if it sounds awkward. It's for everyone who's interested in.

Spoiler:

Although I try to keep away from using the fact that I've been away for 1.5 years, it still matters. Believe it or not, it was yesterday when it came into my mind that I had used ISOs at late-game, whereas I'd used page-by-page catch-up in early-game. I had had a feeling that something I'd been doing wrong but it crystallized only when a couple of players had pointed it out how ineffective my method had been.
I'm not sure either whether I

did

use separate ISOs only at late-game for summarizing everything.

At that time, you know, I'd never considerd myself a particularly good player. I thought I'm a kind of average one who had great games and terrible games too. Anyway, blame Pokémon Go for my absence, but now I

know

that I'm not as good as I used to be. Adding these means, I think I'm a below average player right now. The good news are that I've always felt that I miss MafiaScum so I plan to stay. And will be back to the average level.

I know there will be not a single player who'll townread me because of this (if anyone

does

, they must be below average too). But I still wanted to tell it.

He literally opened his ISO dig analysis on me with "This post is terrible, no scumhunting" neglecting to take into account it was a fluff post in early RVS and also neglecting to take into account my playstyle as a whole at the point in the game that he decided to ISO dig me.

Apart from the part that you haven't done ISO dig analyses you've done the same: calling me a fluffer, neglecting style and context, etc. Regardless of RC's alignment what he posted about us may be true. Regardless of your aligment as well, I guess.

@everyone: how did hindu's flip read on me make sense

Parrotting this.

[Aneninen]

I'm on page "you have 23 pages' worth of posts and between you and chesskid, are actively preventing the game from being reasonably flushed out by town trying to find scum."

My team just feels more strongly that chesskid is town than you are so I'm starting there.

Here's why what you are doing is very distinctly anti-town and needs to be stopped:
1. you are town: you're allowing scum to lurk and hide in your massive waves of posts
2. you are scum: you're drowning out your scummier posts and scum buddies in your massive wave of posts
3. other town: cannot realistically keep up with the information being thrown at them
4. other scum: don't have to keep up with the information being provided

I hope you'll get some info out of the later pages too.
As for the list: (1) is damm true, (2) may or may not be, it could be an intentional srategy (planned in the scum PT), (3) but if they still try to keep up with everything, there comes the wall-dialoge, which is hard to read and may lead back to (1), (4) in this case "don't have to" and "cannot" will look identical if the other player is not super-active.
These were general answers for any similar situation. Since only (2) is useful for the player itself, it can be considered anti-town.

Hinduragi's exit bled town. I'm yet to be convinced he's scum in spite of all the claims.

2609 and around? It looked town for me for the first sight... but having checked it again, it's null. This kind of exit can be faked easily.

My main thing with Hindu is I'm not sure if those behaviors are due to being scum or due to the toxic and awful gamestate.

And that's also possible.

As for Chesskid's 2750 and 1751


^^
She still doesn't look happy.

A hammer has occurred and xRECKONERx will recieve a 1-shot hider at the start of night 1.

We shouldn't forget to decide whom Reckoner shall target.

@

Everyone not voting

: why?

Because only idiots are not voting in this gamestate.
Wait-oh, I'm not voting either...

The difference between town-mastina and scumastina is that town-mastina basically never gets mislynched lategame. I have a very strong record of never making it to lylo situations or when I do of not being the lylo mislynch. (It has happened, of course, it just has happened very infrequently.) I am ridiculously hard to lynch lategame as town because as the game goes, I build up towncred because my alignment becomes increasingly more obvious as the game progresses.
This is the very same trait which gives scumastina her success because she is the inverse. Scumastina never dies early. (Well, unless you count being nightkilled by her own fucking team as a traitor.) She establishes towncred early, and that towncred is RIDICULOUSLY hard to overcome. Impossible, no. I do lose scum games because I do get lynched eventually...but only after the initial towncred I was given has worn off.
There is thus scum motive in eliminating me early because I am a player who if left alive warrants a nightkill no matter how much people on policy wouldn't want to. I just become required to die before the end of the game. And yet. This only applies if I am not fucking mislynched early-on. If I am fucking mislynched early on, LOL WHOOPS GUESS IT WAS A MISTAKE SHE PROBABLY DESERVED IT and people move on without a thought in the world.

That gave me bad vibes.
Although (as I've admitted) I don't always read everything from her (but I try to do so), this made me think this: what if she's

indeed

scum and Chesskid caught her for a wrong reason? The 3rd part of the same post gave me the same feeling, but the 2nd one (which could have the title "I refuse") looked like a town-rage and her next post is town-ish too.

VOTE: mastina

VOTE: Mastina
Baa.

Did these happen because of her post above? If so, did you have the same feeling or was there something else I failed to spot?

In other words. A scum Hinduragi absolutely defends the loudest two town players arguing, because by doing so, by playing both sides, he ensures that regardless of the outcome of the fight he looks good. And you as town should be perfectly fucking aware of this.

Direct meta?

Also, Reckoner shall not be lyched Today. Voting for him is pointless, and by this you meant him:

And honestly, fuck lynching anyone else; I refuse.

your vote is terrible.

[Aneninen]

Mastina I played in DEFCON with you, I obvscummed and got lynched day 1 but you defended me most of the day

And what does this tell us?

I'm all torn up lol. Like she's right I have no experience with her, she says scummy shizz but so does town. My team are torn on her too. Let's just say I'll hammer if we get to that point but for now I'll keep reading along and keep comparing reactions to her posts. Like I can see where she's coming from in a lot of her posts even if I don't always agree.

I hate to agree with you¹ but I have the same feeling.
Some of her recent posts sound like a scum caught for something they'd never done (and they can't find arguments to defend them)².
But some of her recents sound like a raging townie.

(1) Just kidding.
(2) I must admit that the main reason for thinking that is the way

I feel

when I'm scum and a wagon is getting driven against me because of

entirely wrong

reasons. I can rarely find a counter-strategy in this case.

I saw this is reck's iso. Aneninen has no good reason despite all the fuss to vote for reck here, it feels awkward and over elaborate for that stage of the game.

Weren't you the one who had posted something like "you're drawing false conclusions from a very early post" about me?

Also,

I feel like in RVS if someone is pushing someone else for something provably NAI it's completely normal to scumread that

That, and I've expressed it before.

would he use raging at this particular situation to survive as scum?

What would you propose he as scum do instead?

That sounded genuine raging.
Also, I rarely rage as scum. (Which, I know, is not good. Either I should do that more as scum or less often as town.)

the blindspot is hinduragi defending reck during the rc/reck interactions,

reck tends to townread people who townread him early on

Is that an alignment tell for him or null?

VOTE: chesskid.

Reck still is probably scum.

But IF one of the two in Reck/chesskid is town.
It'd be Reck, not chesskid, so.

Still better vote than Reckoner in this situation.
But I can't see the logic behind that that "IF"-part.

For Errant's 2860
(1) Posts like these make me think that my earlyer read on Cheeky was wrong. (She's not as scummy as she was before, either.)
(2) That Chesskid/Mastina team idea has come into my mind too... if that's true they're geniuses. Especially if RC is the third one... But it's too early to speculate on that. However we should

never

call any of them town because another one of them flips scum.
(3) Nothing interesting to say here, Srceenplay would be a better idea.
(4) Could have been a fake one, as I said.
(5) I still don't get any scumread on Katyusha.
(6) Yes, RC matches the (outdated) town-meta I know. But I wouldn't rule him out on Day1.
(7) It's hard to follow that part. What did you wanted to say?

I'm going to leave this here before I rake up 30 pages myself. To be continued.

Summary of my evening:

Hinduragi, xRECKONERx, Something_Smart town.
Possibly scum but not ISO'd yet: GL, RC.

Previous lock town reads: Yoshi, ErrantParabola, Creature, Singersigner.
Previous scum read: Aneninen.

I'm waiting for some more information on GuiltyLion and RadiantCowbells.

Aneninen if you vote mastina with me you're lock town.

Not right now.
(1) My previous read (this is her town meta I know) is gone and her latest posts have given me both town and scum vibes. So, I don't know what to think.
(2) Also, we shouldn't hurry. There are quite a lot of players flying under the radar right now. What if they're waiting until a wagon on someone else emerges? I know it's both a poor and a cheap strategy but with all these active players and/or wallposters around, it still might work for them.
(3) We still need to decide whom should Reckoner target.

Readlist is coming a bit later.

[Aneninen]

This is the readlist. I only added thoughts where major changes had happened.

Town

BigYoshiFan
Katyusha
ErrantParabola (His catch-up looks okay for me)

Lean town

GuiltyLion
Reckoner (In his latests I found genuine interest towards the game. Or how can I say it.)
Singersinger (Townish catchup, she did a lot if we consider the sheer size of the game too.)
RadiantCowbells (I'd never call him town on Day1, but his gameplay looks pro-town quite much.)

Null / Ambivalent

Mastin (See my catch-up, her posts gave me strong town and scum feelings. I mean, both.)
Creature
Something_Smart
Chesskid (Actually he still looks like an over-confident townie, but what if the whole push he's making is fake? It's unnaturally strong.)
CheekyTeeky (I don't know what to think. But there have been so many players telling me that my read is wrong... and her latests are not that scummy at all.)

Lean scum

(No names here right now)

Scum

Srceenplay
Hinduragi

Unsorted

(No names here right now)

________

You need not point out that I have too few scumreads. That concerns mee too.

Also, I'd be happier if Reckoner targetted Mastina.

[Aneninen]

She makes good points about

this game being >100 pages and difficult to keep up with.

I may have expressed poorly above, but the highlighted part makes me worried on many levels, eg. lynching Mastina without getting reads on quite a lot of players by many of us.
If there is/are scum among the players posted a lot and (especially) long contents, hurray – but it will be very hard to catch them using

real

and

concise

arguments.
However, if

not

, we'll have

very hard time

catching them. There are too many players under the radar now, but not esentially because they want to do so. They (actually, including me) don't have

this

much time to read and examine everything.

I hope it's clear what I meant by this.

[Aneninen]

Singersinger

:

2727 is a summary of the whole RC/Chesskid wallpaper
2776 was about a couple of answers (I don't remember the exact situation but I remember nodding when reading it, even if I don't know why)
2788, 2810, 2815 was mostly about Mastina (and a bit of RC).

1. This is a great stalling tactic. This means that mastina can take the time to mold her narrative of events knowing full well the game has moved on without her.
2. This means mastina has no accountability for what happens "without her" because she's refusing to keep up with current events at our expense.

I was thinking about the same thing but I'm not entirely sure whether it's happening, see above my posts.

As I told my team, I'm comfortable with a mastina or RC lynch today,

while I continue to try and find the lurking scum

My reads about Mastina and RC are above. The highlighted part suggested me that you were (are?) trying to examine the others too. Or am I wrong?

Plus, two more things.
(1) Primate was null, your posts were

some

content compared to his ones.
(2) I saw players replacing in long games before like this and most of them cared

much less about the previous pages

(even if there were much less). A smaller amount (including me) posted long walls with detailed reactions. These were, on the other hand, too long to read in most cases (and I doubt I was an exception).

________

That above is enough for a lean town read. At least, on Day1.

[Aneninen]

Do not L-1 Mastina until she posts her readlist!

[Aneninen]

Do not hammer Mastina until she posts her readlist!!!

[Aneninen]

That may be interesting if either of them flips scum (which I doubt right now). Are you thinking about that?

Also, it would be better if someone removed a vote from Mastina temporarily. There might be a lolhammer or a self-hammer or whatever and we definitely need a readlist from her before we move on in any way.

[Aneninen]

Actually, Reckoner, here's something you could consider.
If Mastina gets lynched and flips scum, I'll look just as scummy as RadiantCowbells, I guess.

From your point of view

, either RC or me could be scum. If you pick randomly either of us and you die, your target is an auto-lynch. However, if both of us are town the scum have to guess where you are.

From another point of view

, if you're scum you can fake anything so your PR won't help us at all.

If Mastina gets lynched and flips town, you may do a similar pick between RadiantCowbells and Hinduragi. But I'm not sure about this. (It could be me again, if you wish.)

[Aneninen]

we definitely need a readlist from her before we move on in any way.

What do you think the chances of her posting a readslist D1 are?

If she's town she

must

post a readlist to help us. If she's blatantly refusing to do so, I'll hammer her.

Do not hammer Mastina until she posts her readlist!!!

Sure...when do you think that'll be...
Also, why a readslist over a claim...?

What claim?
And I don't think she won't show up in 24 hours or so.

People who can die who may or may not be scum:
Aneninen
RadiantCowbells
Errantparabola
mastina
GuiltyLion

Town, Lean town, Town, I don't know, Lean town.
Please, explain your reads. (Need not talk about Mastina again.)

[Aneninen]

brain function not detected

target is auto lynch but scum must guess

Okay, I rolled 1 on the Intelligence test. Sometimes it happens. I thought it was a great idea.

@Aneninen...I was asking why you demanded a reads list and no mention of a claim, specifically because you pointed out it would be at L-1.

Again, what claim? Isn't the Setup 12 VTs 3 Mafias and the inventions?

I don't have a good feeling about you because I think your response to me entering the game was contrived and your breakdown of my ISO when questioned about it didn't really answer my question. In fact, it kind of confirmed that it was a whimsical read to throw at me because it felt safe at the time.

Think whatever you wish. However, I don't think my read on eg. Errant, Katyusha, GuiltyLion, Something_Smart were better, from your point of view. Why haven't you mentioned those?
Why do you think it would have been riskier if I had thrown out a scumread on you?

RC I'm working on but his flip can clarify a lot of questions with the bonus of lessening the game spam (yes I recognize that he has been holding back in the last 24 hours which I appreciate).

That's not much.

Errant I explained here.

Is that all?
I had no problems with Errant's catchup. Maybe we see catchups in a different way?

GuiltyLion seems to have a decent amount of heat so that seems like someone who can also clarify some questions/reads. No opinion, yet, though.

Or have I misunderstood you and I should have taken that "may or may not be scum" part

literally

?

Which part of your question have I left unanswered?

[Aneninen]

@Aneninen...I was asking why you demanded a reads list and no mention of a claim, specifically because you pointed out it would be at L-1.

Again, what claim? Isn't the Setup 12 VTs 3 Mafias and the inventions?

Um...no...

Well, instead of doing all those ISOs I should have read the game description instead.
This doesn't seem to be my most intelligent

day

game...

I haven't read your thoughts on other players so I didn't take those into account.
I think a

townlean

on me is safe because it's not committing to me being town, and you feel obligated to put me in a category. If you had said I was scum you would've had to answer for it.

From your point of view, those reads aren't better. I usually use these categories: town, lean town, null/unsorted, lean scum, scum. Anyone can meta it.
Also, in most games even my "strong" reads are weak on Day1. (There are exceptions, though.) As I expressed before, what counts as "strong town" read on Day1 means little or nothing later, eg. on Day4.

Maybe. It's the same problem I have with mastina in that they're clearly keeping up with the game but aren't participating in the current state of it.

So. Let me rephrase it.
Do you think it's a tell if someone has "instant" interactions with others or merely catch-up posts every now and then? (If so, I disagree.)
Or, do you think a dialogue-like interaction tells more about a player than an asychronous one which consists of catch-ups and/or quote walls? (If so, I agree. Quick reactions may tell more because they're more likely "instinctive" or how can I describe them.)
Or, do you think they look scummy because they're around but not posting meanwhile. (If so, I disagree. Sometimes I have some time to post, but on certain days i hardly ever have any. Still, I'm reading eg. when I have a break at work, sitting on the loo, etc. I actually read your posts during the latter thing. As far as i can remember. – I guess others may have similar "IRL-activity rhythm". )
Or, something else? (Well, not getting what you mean would be maximum the 3rd stupidest thing I've done this game so far...)

I just meant that you did an ISO to try and answer it but you called what I did a catch up, which is was not. Because I am not. And came across as "sure they're town because I know they are so I can safely call them town" with what seemed like a retroactive justification for your statement.

I thought you had read quite a few pages for those posts. Although I didn't check whether the things you mentioned had been close to each other in the thread or not.
In short, Primate's nul + they looked genuine + gut were enough for that lean town read. Think what you wish about it.

[Aneninen]

Well, instead of doing all those ISOs I should have read the game description instead.
This doesn't seem to be my most intelligent day game...

All is forgiven if you bring the hammer down

You know, I have a feeling that even if we happen to win Team Mafia, I won't get a nomination for the Best Townie Award of the year...

But still, I think Mastina should post a readlist. And claim, yeah. That one too. Then it may happen.

[Aneninen]

Mastina's flip confirms

no one

. Not even you.

[Aneninen]

I just meant that you did an ISO to try and answer it but you called what I did a catch up, which is was not. Because I am not. And came across as "sure they're town because I know they are so I can safely call them town" with what seemed like a retroactive justification for your statement.

Singer why aren't you pushing my locktown read on you when I haven't commented on your alignment previously?

Now I start thinking that I was wrong about Cheeky before...
That's a damm good question.
(As a remote possibility. If I'm wrong about Singer and she's scum, her read on me is just as safe as my one on her. I mean, it doesn't matter much at this game phase; I'm not a hot topic nor important. But that's mere speculation and it's relevant only if Mastin flips town. I don't think Singer wouldn't have derailed Mastina's wagon instead of pushing it if there were scum together. Or, Singer may not have read that post.)

[Aneninen]

Ghostlin, if there's anything you want to post Today, do it.

[Aneninen]

Mastina, have you claimed yet?

[Aneninen]

This. ALL of it. (Well, I omitted a few sections about chesskid as town which don't apply.) This is dead on the money, for both why chesskid is scum and why Screenplay is also scum.

Frankly the closest thing

I'd have to a reason to suspect Aneninen right now is because this level of competency is more than I'd expect from him as town.

Butyeah.

The everything there is right.

Whut?
Me?
Competent?
The one who picked a wrong way to catch up?
The one who forgot to vote?
The one who posted a terrible idea for Reckoner how to hide?
And the one who turned out not reading the game description?

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

Why do I feel that you're going down and want the town see me as your scumbuddy later?
Thanks, but no.
I can create my own shyt alone.

[Aneninen]

Where was your claim, Mastina?

[Aneninen]

Alright, the word I have for the Day is skeptical:

(1) *I'm skeptical that chess actually has the answer you're looking for, and of his innate townness upon hearing about it.
(2) *I'm skeptical that if you were literally serious about your list, you'd cast a vote on it before the mastina hammer discussion with a week left to deadline(ish)
(3) *I'm skeptical that chess made that him for RC and mastina trade knowing full well that wouldn't have, in someway, get Townread
(4) *I'm skeptical that figuring out mastina/RC/chess is the thing we have to do today, and I even have a crackpot theory that this could be scum theater for our benefit.
(5) *I'm skeptical that any of what I just said matters and that I'll finish my opinions on this thread and finish reading this thread by the time someone has hammered mastina.

(1) What do you mean by that?
(2) Check it. The more I read Matina the more conflicted I became. Plus, it seems it's going to happen regardless of my hammer. Also, not voting was another idiotic thing from me. (I posted about it somewhere.)
(3) It is NOT working. Mastina's flip gives us NO information about Chesskid.
(4) I would have better ideas too. But, as far as I can see we're not moving forward until the Mastina/RC/Chess question starts getting resolved. And the more we post about it (and ONLY about it) the easier for the scum to lurk. Regardless of any flips from them.
(5) I'm scumreading your slot so yes, it DOES matter.

[Aneninen]

Why do I feel that you're going down and want the town see me as your scumbuddy later?
Thanks, but no.
I can create my own shyt alone.

For someone who you read as null earlier this is a fucking weird thing to say. Why do you care about this so much?

Why? Why?
Right now I think there are MANY things can be told about my gameplay. Competent is definitely NOT among'st those words.
I simply can't see a world where Mastina thought

genuinely

that I was more competent than she had thought.

[Aneninen]

Also, Hi, Ghostlin.
(Sorry, I forgot this.)

[Aneninen]

To answer 1: I'm talking about the fact that Chesskid is offering to help you guys game solve for free with Elli's computer program. Unfortunately, like real life, this game is much messier than that and I'm always skeptical about offers to help solve my game for me (that aren't things like Cop), particularly on Day 1.
I'm not really going to comment on 2; it's the thing I don't like preliminary about your slot--and it's not like you've fixed it since then. Again, you can vote someone without hammering mastina and yet we get mostly talk about the mastina hammer.
3 means it's at least partially working; if none of you were serious about chesskid scum reading mastina, she wouldn't be at L-1.
4 is essentially my point. I don't see this ending in a scenario where we get two dead scum and one dead townie. I see at least two dead townies, maybe three.
5 essentially that's not what I meant. What I mean is I'm not particularly inclined to hammer mastina, and if I were to go on what I have contextually, it'd be you or chess I'd be voting for, and neither of those advance the game state because I feel I'd need support for either.
Fuck it.

(1) Others told us that the program exists. But I don't believe it's (A)

that

reliable and (B) Chesskid actually used it. Also, why didn't he use it on plenty of other players too?
(2) Why would my vote matter right now?
(3) As far as I know, most players are scumreading Mastina

regardless of

Chesskid's software. I keep parrotting: Matina's flip tells us NOTHING about Chesskid's alignment. The whole story could be a puppet show organized by two scum.
(4) Even if this may come from the wrong player right now, but we should DEFINITELY remember this from you if Mastina flips scum.
(5) Your posts matter. That's what I wanted to say. Also, your vote tells us that you think Chesskid's simply faking.

[Aneninen]

Mastina, have you claimed yet?

She's catching up in chronological order; I don't think you've asked her for a claim yet at the point of the game where she is. From every recent (2017-2018) games I've played with her, that's how she rolls.

I just can't believe it's happening. It. Should. Not.

[Aneninen]

It's not about that Elli-tell right now.
I started thinking earlier what if Mastina got scumread for a wrong reason.
And now she keeps telling how good my posts are.
WTF.

MASTINA,
Would you be so kind so as to claim now?

[Aneninen]

Let me put it this way: there's much more greater payoff as scum motivation as this being a Town gambit.

1 for 1 trade on Day1?
I doubt that pays off for the scum.
I'm afraid of a scenarion where

both

of them are scum.

[Aneninen]

Okay I don't want to stop but I need to.

I'm legit getting a bit lightheaded. Is a bit dangerous for me to continue; I need the break.

Will be continuing from page 59. (Sorry.)

Enough.

VOTE: Mastina

[Aneninen]

I simply

can't believe

that she wasn't aware of the fact that she had been at L–1.
I simply

can't believe

that she didn't browse the chat through to check whether there had been new votes on her or some votes had been removed from her.
I simply

can't believe

that she missed Singersinger's post about the intent and my annoyingly frequent requests for claiming.
I simply

can't believe

that she went on catching up

that

old posts and took a break without adding at least a "don't hammer yet" or "I'll claim later" or whatever.

I simply think that she was trying to waste or time or hoped that someone unvotes her.

[Aneninen]

Man adenine I wanted cheeky to respond

Sorry. I had enough.

Also, Reckoner. Got your plan? Could you explain it for the replacements again?
If you and most townies think I'm scummier than RC, feel free to target me.

[Aneninen]

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

This Day's a no-brainer.

@MOD, Does the Vengeful ability work only at Day phase, or Night too?

[Aneninen]

Also,

do not put RC at L–1 yet

. He'd self-hammer and we'd lost the PR if we did so!

[Aneninen]

I've been thinking.

It's

very unlikely

that the scum were bussing on Day1. Regardless of Chesskid's Elli-read (and I still doubt that the program works), it was clear that plenty of players had been scumreading Mastina

and

it was decided that Reckoner would target RadiantCowbells. Which means, the scum team could see it as a strong possibility that only one of them will get past Day2!

So, we should examine the following players: GuiltyLion, Something_Smart, Ghostlin, ErrantParabola, Katyusha.

As for the Mastina-wagon, two players are more likely scum than the others:
– Chesskid/Smokaine. I still can't rule out that the whole Day1 with that Elli-read was planned by the scumteam. It's a highly risky move, but I can imagine such a gameplay for a scumteam which includes Mastina and RadiantCowbells.
– And me. I refused to get a read on RadiantCowbells and developed a scumread on Mastina only at the end of the Day. It sounds just as risky, but yet again, I had at least as risky moves as scum in the past.


RadiantCowbells must be lynched.

If he somehow happen to flip town, there may be some strange mechanics behind. But, we shouldn't speculate about that right now. Also, there's a thin chance that Reckoner changed his mind in the very last moment and picked me, partly because of my 3037. (You may think my idea was terrible, but keep that in mind that I wanted to see some answers for it, which never happened because the Day ended.) That said, if RC flips town, I'm an auto-lynch.

That's the second thing which tells us I should never get to LyLo, so I suppose I'm to get the invention. Assuming we decide it collectively whom I should target, because I s-ck at being a Town-Killing PR.

Elect: Aneninen

I don't insist on it, so if anyone has a better idea for the Invention, fire it away!

[Aneninen]

I doubt the bus. Mastina was likely going down

and

we agreed that Reckoner would target RadiantCowbells. I don't think it would have paid off for the scum if they had bussed. (The two caveats are explained above.)

As for the Invention. You may be right if it works after a Nightkill too. But as far as I know, "Vengeful" is a Day-PR. (Although that might have changed since I left the forum for a while.) If we give it to a generally townread player, the scum will simply target them at Night. So we should pick someone whom we definitely don't want to see here at LyLo.

(It's not that good either if the Invention works at Night as well. Even if we agree whom the Vengeful should pick in case of getting Nightkilled, the scum can easily turn it into a WIFOM. Eg. we give you the Invention and decide that you target me. Next Day you're still alive. Is it because I'm scum or because the scum thought I could get lynched easily? Plus, without any proof even the towniest-looking player could be scum and get to LyLo by WIFOMizing the game with similar things.)

RadiantCowbells is at L–3. Do not put him at L–1 before the invention has been given away.

Also, I'll express my thoughts about the players listed above. And we need to see the reads of all the other players, too. For someone Today is the last chance for expressing their thoughs.

[Aneninen]

Firstly said, I don't like your post at all.

Anenien - I agree that it's less likely that scum didn't bus early on, but I don't think it was obvious that mastina was getting lynched (or that Reck was targeting RC with the hider) until much later in the day

Regardless of the Elli-tell there were quite a lot of scumreads on Mastina. There were players building up their own case.
Also, as far as I can remember, Reckoner's target was pretty much decided. The only player who had other suggestions were Chesskid (but only in case of Mastina's townflip) and me (including a terrible idea).

So I think anyone who turned on Mastina after that point could be bussing as it's likely it was after that point when scum realized she was a goner and may have tried to salvage towncred from it.

I don't think so.
Scum must have known that after lynching Mastina (which was a real possibility at least) and Reckoner targetting RadiantCowbells (which as almost sure) they would lose

two

team members. I doubt anyone as scum could get enough town-credit to compensate this huge loss. (With the possible exception of Chesskid/Smokaine and me; see my previous post.)

Also, since you named 5 players, it's trivially true that at least 3 (a majority) of them are town who didn't vote mastina. So "not voting Mastina" cannot be considered scum-indicative in and of itself and I'd like to see a more convincing explanation than just "wasn't on the D1 lynch" for any scumcases on that subset.

That 3 is most likely 4.
As I said, we can't rule it out entirely that there was scum on the Mastina-wagon. Especially the later names and/or those who hadn't expressed a scumread on Mastina. But it's more likely that the scum were away from the lynch.
I don't like the fact that this post came from someone who was on Mastina's counter-wagon.

-if scum did bus, I think it's between Creature/BYF/singersigner, they are in the sweet spot of "hop on this wagon as it's inevitably happening at this point anyway and we need to get something out of it"¹
-GL/EP/Katyusha never moved - I am biased but I don't think this says anything in particular, would have to break down the reads here to see if there was a point where any of us should have voted mastina but didn't²
-there was an effort to kickstart a chesskid counterwagon from {S_S, RC, Ghostlin}. RC is confscum obviously, so the important question is: if S_S or Ghostlin are scum, why did they feel their vote was better placed as a last ditch effort to counterwagon chesskid than an attempt to glean towncred from a scum!mastina flip?³ I don't think that a ck lynch was likely at this point and I have to believe that a scum!SS or scum!Ghostlin would be worried about how they would look not being on the wagon and instead being on basically-conftown!ck.⁴

(1) Haven't you said above that it wasn't sure that Mastina would be lynched? Also, though those names are not getting a game-long freepass,

their effecto on the Mastina-wagon gaining momentum was considerable

!
(2) We should examine those players indeed. What do you mean by "they should have voted Mastina but they didn't"?
(3) See above!
(4) Chesskid/Smokaine was (and is)

never

conf-town. And you're talking about the wagon you were on!

also, do you really think ck could be scum here? Even if he gets all the towncred in the world for pushing that lynch, how does he then explain himself being alive at 3p LYLO?

I've never said he's the most possible one (after RC, obviously). I've only said we can't call him obv-town.

Also, if he's town, any scum can build up a great WIFOM out of the fact that he's still alive, because he's the player who could have gained

the most towncredit

after pushing Mastina by that Ellie-tell as scum.

Spoiler:

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=64287
Although in this game my scumplay was far from excellent, I intentionally built up the

worst

possible LyLo for myself. There were obv-town (or conf-town?) Murgatroyd & Miss Elisa and Shos, a really good player, who had been scumreading me all game long. I Nightkilled all my scumreads to get there. In the end we lynched Shos because, I kept shouting, the LyLo had clearly been set up against me.
Since I'm not a genius, I assume anyone can perform the similar WIFOM.

Back to this game: just imagine a LyLo with

both

Smocaine and me alive...

TL;DR
(1) Before we lynch RC, we must elect someone who we don't want to see at LyLo for the PR
(2) All of us must examine everyone who was away from the lynch. (Keeping it in mind that players or the Mastin-wagon are less likely scum, but far from conf-town.)
(3) Unless we can confirm either of us in any way, neither Smocaine nor me should be here at LyLo.

[Aneninen]

*shrug*
UNVOTE:
Consider my vote there.

[Aneninen]

Returning to my PoE:

Aneninen

Katyusha
Ghostlin (Hinduragi)

RadiantCowbells

Something_Smart

signersinger (Primate)
Errantparabola

Srceenplay

Smocaine (chesskid3)

GuiltyLion

BigYoshiFan

Creature

[...]
Wild guess:
Last scum is signersinger/Primate.

I doubt it.
Singersinger expressed her scumread on Mastina regardless of Chesskid.
It didn't take long for her after replacing in to vote for Mastina.
As scum she could have started a wagon against me any time when Mastina was going down.

I think you are ruling out Aneninen prematurely. They even understand why they should be suspicious. Announcing it themselves is not a town tell. Especially in this situation where they are the last scum left trying their hardest to be town read.

Indeed.
What do you think of Chesskind/Smocaine?

i felt the way rc engaged (or rather refused to) with me while I was scumreading hinduragi was from him not really wanting me to develop that read any further, and with how hard mastina and rc were set on buddying me that felt really out of place. plus mastina's townread of him was really out of place

However, your vote was on Errant, who's only the third scummiest according to your list in the same post.

I am full steam either Aneninen or Errant after RC.

I need to parse through how I feel about the vengeful after answers from beeboy (confirm that only town would get to use the shot and that it counts at any point of death).

Assuming it's working only during the Day phase, you should elect me. Even I know that I shouldn't be here at LyLo and I doubt that I'll get Nightkilled. (If the scum targets me to get rid of the Venge-kill, they must use up a shot for a lynch-able player instead of an obv-town one.)

Also GL is town.

I didn't like his Day2 entry.
Who do you think the scum is then?

[Aneninen]

Be suspicious of
Anemone
Smoc

Yoshi

GL

FIFY
I don't think Yoshi's scum and he was on the Mastina wagon.

@Mod, I think a post deletion is needed at 3123.

[Aneninen]

Let's see some ISOs.
I know you hate them but right now I'm searching for specific things. Namely, interactions with Mastina and RadiantCowbells.

Hinduragi/Ghostlin

– previously scumread

Spoiler:

563 –

"Is mastina being voted rn?"

– is FoS. At that time there was indeed a wagon on Mastina. Why did he ask that? Checking the content of the post it seems to be off. (And RadiantCowbells answered it quickly...)

581

"Also, I really don't want to lynch mastina because we need a nice person in this game tbh."

– Erm...

614

"Ok I iso'd mastina and her vote was actually p bad"

and 619

"Not gonna lynch her but I see why you voted. But trying to rush the quicklynch is god awful"

(Check out the Cheeky's post above too!!!) – Need I comment how scummy these look right now? 687 is a soft-defense on Mastina.

790 – defending Mastina again. Also, he said his strongest scumread was me, but his vote was on Cheeky. (Later he moved his vote.)

938 –

"Chess kid/mastina 1v1 is lulz and I’m not doing that either. Let’s lynch someone else please"

– Why do I think it meant: "Don't lynch Mastina"?

1333 –

"Mastina, you're being anti-town by LLD's standards and you have 24 hours to cease adding fuel to RC/CK3. LLD has told me if you don't comply, I'm to park my vote on you and only you for D1. If you're not lynched, LLD is trading in and doing it herself."

– the only thing agaist Mastina so far. But it can be fake too... and his vote was, again, somewhere else. (This time on Yoshi. Was he trying to launch a counter?)

1579 – Long post, hard to read, little real content. (At that point he was wagoned.)

1667 –

"The fact that my wagon reached so many votes so fast should be extremely telling. Like, hey, maybe there’s scum all over it. But no, it’s back to chesskid or mastina must be scum."

– My first guess is, he wasn't happy that either him or Mastina was in danger.

1699 –

"Also, LLD has stated mastina might be third scum but even if she is, lynching her doesn't break the game. Yoshi lynch is what will hurt scum, she thinks."

– WHUT???!

1821 –

"The real thing is: just focus on other things and do what you can to find scum that others aren't really looking at. So far, this entire game has mostly been between you/chesskid/me/reck/mastina and that's it."

– Sounds desperate. Five names, three scum amongst them. (Actually what he said was not entirely true.)

2504 – Too long to quote it here; it sounds fake (but I might be wrong?).

2507 –

"RC isn't scum and won't be even if mastina flips town/scum."

– Wow.

Wow.

WOW!

– Aaaand check out 2510–2511 too, at their original place!!!

Later there were more "I don't know what to think of Mastina"-s and he voted for Reckoner again. It seems he was trying to launch a viable counter all the time. Also, as far as I can see

he had not a single direct interaction with Mastina!

As for RadiantCowbells, he developed a strong townread on him, in 134. They had some interaction later, but his read didn't change. (Hinduragi explained RC that Chesskid was town, for example.)

As for

Ghostlin

, check out 2981 about Mastina! What should I think of the end of 2996. It was for me and he was right from a point of view, but what about the part about Mastina?

In 3002 he might have wanted to widen the lynch pool. But, it is worth reading the whole interaction between Ghostlin and me. If you think I'm the scummier, examine it because of that. Also, mind the end of 3002:

"P-EDIT: I'm hindu's replacement, mastina. Hello."

– Post-edit. Mastina was named. Now, check out the close context of the post!!!

Not much about RadiantCowbells; if you check our interaction, basically you'll find everything.

TL;DR – Although I'll try to break down the others who weren't on the Mastina wagon too, it will happen later. But now, I don't think I'll find

anyone

who'll look scummier than Hinduragi/Ghostlin. He seems to be the third one!

[Aneninen]

Be suspicious of
Anemone
Smoc

Yoshi

GL

FIFY
I don't think Yoshi's scum and he was on the Mastina wagon.

You are right. Yoshi was originally gut and iirc because of the interactions I saw between you two.
He was an associative assumption.

Unless RC flips town (which I really, really doubt) it's impossible that both Yoshi and I are scum.

What do you think of Ghostlin?

(Also, you're not on my scumlist right now, because of the Mastina wagon.)

[Aneninen]

I've only checked the game but haven't read the new posts thoroughly. Also, I don't have much time today.

But there's something needs to be pointed out:

Because of this:

Oh yeah uh forewarning
you have until about this time tomorrow before I make it impossible to get anything done so any town discussion you want to do you should get in before that.

We must follow this:

lets elect aneninen or ghost as soon as possible
and then lynch rc

Either of us is getting the Invention, he should target the other one. (If the Vengeful's still alive on Day3, we'll have time to discuss what to do. If he dies at Night2, at least two lynchable players are out of the game.)

[Aneninen]

Mobilepost.

Why we should not rule out Chesskid/Smocaine:

1 Why did Chesskid use the program only on Mastina?
2 Why after 8 posts and not later or later again?
3 Why not on me whom he was scumreading?
4 What if Mastina/RC/Chesskid were making noise intentionally so that we couldn't form real reads on anyone?

I'm not saying he's the most possible third scum. I am only saying he is possible.

By the way by his posts RC told us that he is scum.

Also, I ike Katyusha's latest.

[Aneninen]

Mobilepost.
Let's assume I'm wrong and there was nothing scummy with Chesskid.
I'll check GuiltyLion next.

[Aneninen]

Catching-up

The elect is basically choosing tomorrow’s lynch

No, we're choosing the Vengeful's target together.

You didn't vote.¹ You pushed a null read.² You were twitchy over the hammer and you so desperately didn't want to called mastina's scum buddy.³ I even pointed out how odd it was yesterday. You seem reluctant to be associated with mastina throughout and wanted to seem to be very Town with your hammer.⁴

(1) What should I say? I know that was dumb.
(2) The more I read Mastina's posts the more scummier she looked. And I'd say the same most probably if I were scum.
(3) See (2)
(4) Actually the way she wanted to buddy me made me think she was scum. And I realized that she had been digging my grave by doing so, because I don't have a proof that I'm not her buddy. That'swhy I said that I shouldn't be around at LyLo. It would cost us the game.

And if we were scum together, why would we have this interaction since we'd be on together at the same time and I would of been added to the scum chat?

Or it was posted in the wrong chat.

This is a really large freak-out for a possible interaction to mastina. Really big. I've never seen a Town slot go 'holy shit, I might be seen as your scumbuddy, I'd better rebuff it quickly.'

Do you think Mastina would ever had been tag her scumbuddy like that? But yet again, it's only my words. I'm sitting in the middle of a WIFOM created by her, so see (4) above!

He LITERALLY ENDED DAY. He couldn't wait six days to see how his suggestion worked out? Also hold onto that list for a minute...

I lost my patience and I got scared that her wagon might be derailed.

...no, just kidding, it's my slot. He's picking my slot for final scum.

Not yet. I need to ISO all the others too. Eg. I didn't like GuiltyLion's early-Day2 posts.

i dont really see why 'from a certain pov'-esque posting is scummy, especially in the specific instance you pointed out. he's trying to engage with reck and explain why he thinks picking him as a hider is a good option from reck's perspective (it's not, there's definitely scum equity in trying to muddy the hider clear as scum, but that's not your argument and it's also stupid to do that when you know you will be solo scum). explaining why it's a good move from anen's pov doesn't make sense

Sort of.

I don’t really want to coast though, at some point we should go through everyone and be certain about our reads.

That.

@Aneninen...what the FUCK is the significance of pointing out Ghostlin's preview edit to Mastina when Mastina was still saying "hindu" was scummy?

If you're talking about the same thing, that post might have been posted in the wrong chat.

Also add Srceenplay to my townlist

I think I was wrong about him before. He as the third scum simply makes little sense.

She was always behind, she only caught up after the first Great Eight

Great Eight. That's going to be famous, I guess.....................

I WOULD LOVE TO LYNCH ANENINEN.

Good.
Then I should get the Invention, shouldn't I?

so they don't get accidentally killed since a venge kill is the only thing they can't control...

According to the Setup there may be some PR-s around. Those might mean some more threat, I guess.
Also, we can decide whom the Vengeful should target if they happen to get Nightkilled. Not obeying could be an auto-lynch. (But that doesn't mean much, they get lynched most probably on Day3 anyway.) Point me out if my train of thoughts is flawed.

lets elect aneninen or ghost as soon as possible
and then lynch rc

I'm still saying this. So, which one of us?

[Aneninen]

Does anyone mind this day going for a bit more while?

We need to elect and I guess we need to decide whom the Vengeful should target at Night2.

Ghostlin and Anen, just for the sake of it can you guys vote for your scumreads instead of yourselves? thanks

I still want to do some more footwork.

At the risk of Katy completely fucking manipulating me...I've asked my team to advise on whether or not I'm being duped. I also have quite the success rate of venge kills but seeing as I might only get to use it if I'm night killed it'd only serve as self-preservation...I need objective observers to tell me if that's not the route we should be taking...

I've been townreading her for a while. But her vote was away from Mastina, which we shouldn't ignore.

I haven't read too closely, but Anemic's posting is GOOD

Which one? That's important. Something came into my mind. (Even if you all doubt that might be remotely useful for us.)

pre-game shit b. I would assume Chesskid doesn't have the program. I'm conftown who doesn't need to read or explain things.

WHY WE SHOULD RULE OUT EVERY LYNCH EXCEPT GL TOMORROW:
HE SNAGGED A RED ROLE PM

Okay, let's say for a short while that I believe you.
Answer these:
1. Don't you think Chesskid was playing your slot in a very weird way?
2. If you were me and you got the Invention, would you target GuiltyLion?
3. Would you suggest the same for Ghostlin?

Having a feeling RC must've made the final scum look good based on interactions.

???

Alright, sooooo...

People who can die who may or may not be scum:
RadiantCowbells
Aneninen
GuiltyLion
Errant

If people need Ghostlin dead tomorrow I won't prevent it but I think Aneninen would be a better choice. Either way it likely means I get my flip on Aneninen and gg?????
Will vote RC upon confirmation we have a the invention secured on someone.

RadiantCowbells is not in the "may or may not be" category. His gameplay basically confirms his alignment.
Why do you think Ghostlin is town? Have you read my post?
FYI, unless I have the Invention and pick the last scum, the game won't end with my death.

GL, how likely would you have been to take a scum role?

Do you think you'll get a real answer for this?

What do you think about singersigner's reactiveness (mainly #3242)?

Not only did she vote for Mastina, she also expressed her scumread. I don't think that would make too much sense in that game phase. If she were scum, she could have left the wagon and voted for me any time without getting any FoS for doing so.

I'm guessing we stick with the lynch Anen/Ghost venge the other.

I guess you're talking about Day3. Which one of us?

Elect: BigYoshiFan

But why?
The pool for this beautiful Invention is Ghostlin, Aneninen and maybe GuiltyLion.

[Aneninen]

Now, let's see GuiltyLion.

Spoiler:

1066 – Looks like a big null on both RC and Mastina.

1515 – He votes for Chesskid, RC is harder, Mastina is softer townread in his readlist, without any more content. (I wonder why I ended up at the list as softer town. He had been voting for me earlier and said nothing about the change. Meanwhile, my wagon died out...)

In 1802 he doesn't believe the Elli-tell.

2089 is worth reading for everyone. Especially the part where he's calculating how many votes Mastina could get. 2091 is weird, too.

2636 is a kind of defence on Mastina.

By 2661 both RC and Mastina have been moved to his scum-list. I wonder, why...

In 2946 he tells he will hammer Mastina later. It never happened. (That may be a null, because I did so.)

Keep in mind that he had NO direct interaction with Mastina.

More interaction with RadiantCowbells, remember, RC moved somehow from his townlist to his scumlist. (Maybe around 2639 there was a change on RC???)

2089 may be an attempt on suggesting Reckoner picking another target than RC! 2102 is similar in many ways.

I don't know whether 2648 is genuine. If they have met in-game before, it might not be.


Also, as I said, I didn't like his 3086. Besides, I think he was trying to widen our lynch pool instead of narrowing it.

TL;DR – I can imagine him as the third scum. His interactions and attitude towards Mastina and RC are not as scummy as Ghostlin's, but I can find scummy things there too.

[Aneninen]

Smocaine

.
Can you take a look at my post about ghostlin? (Or have you read it yet?) Please, tell me, do you still think GuiltyLion is scummier?
Yes or No?

[Aneninen]

Catching up later, but here's a short summary for Vonflare (and partly for Errant, too).

1. Mastina was lynched on Day1, she flipped scum.
2. Reckoner was Hider, targetted RadiantCowbells and died. Therefore (adding RC's posting style on Day2) RadiantCowbells is scum too.
3. We're lynching RadiantCowbells Today, but we need to decide who gets the next Invention, which is Vengeful (it works at Night as well).
4. The Vengeful will go to someone whom we find scummy and don't want to see at LyLo. So far the three scummiest-looking players are: Ghostlin, GuiltyLion, Aneninen (not ordered).

I think, that's the short summary, and I've tried to be un-biased.

[Aneninen]

When do you think it was "pretty much decided"?

Honestly, that's what I can remember. (It was about Reckoner's target.) It was a kind of process to decide the target, but it happened way before the lynch. (Even if I had ...not so good alternative ideas.)

I do not know what GL is talking about, and question it's RELEVANCY.

See above.

I think it's more likely the third scum bussed than counterwagoned

And I still think you're widening the lynch pool. (I'm not ruling that out completely, but I don't think it happened.)

I read it just now and have no clue what you guys are talking about aside from the fact that you hammered(?) mastina. I only know one thing, and that is LYNCH GL.

My chesskid programmed responses to your other post about me is as follows:
1. lynch GL
2. LYNCH GL
3. gl lynch

Was the first part for me? I'm a he anyway.
But okay, I believe you. If we want to get GuiltyLion lynched, shouldn't we give him the Invention?

it's mostly wagon position honestly. There was a swing towards my lynch and then a pendulum turbo swing back to Mastina.

Obviously mostly town drove that but I could see you as scum hopping on

, especially so you could make this exact post. "scum!me doesn't have an advantage of bussing my partner there" isn't really a defense I can agree with because if I agree with it then it did in fact give scum!you an advantage.

You're searching for scum among'st those who sped up the Mastina-wagon? That doesn't add up.

there was definitely a lot of read changes and re-evaluation going on under the hood in my ISO which I didn't lay out in thread

Need we believe this?

and I'm not trying to widen the lynch pool - I'm trying to take S_S/Ghostlin/BYF out of the lynchpool and replace them with singer I guess, mainly. You were trying to say anyone who voted Mastina is probably not scum and that's just kinda the exact opposite of how I feel here.

There were eight players on that wagon. Why Singersinger?
Also, if you say it was likely that the scum bussed, you're talking about more people, not only Singersinger.
Again, it doesn't add up.

There's a pretty major flaw in auto-lynching the

night-killed

vengeful if they don't shoot our target...
...I just really needed to comment on this point in particular, because, well...you know...well I hope you know by now...

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Mathdino suggested an alternative idea for today

That's a terrible idea.
We have a confirmed scum. Lynching someone who

may

be scum can never be better than lynching the confirmed one.

Sorry dudes. Still swamped. I have some thoughts from before that I might just throw out tonight before really reading hard, but in the meantime some combo of SS/BYF/Aneninen tell me what's been going on/thoughts/the plan. thx

I'm looking forward to reading some more content from you.

[Aneninen]

Let's see

Errantparabola

.

There's not much to say. In 2244 he had a townread on Mastina in the first part of his catchup. Which developed to a "not townreading" and a "somewhere in the middle, scummiest". I don't know whether it was genuine.

2248

"I think it's highly unlikely (maybe even impossible?) that reck + chess + RC + mastina is town"

, which isn't too informative in our current situation.

2251

"I wouldn't mind lynching you then mastina and it worries me that people aren't really considering that option. ... At this point I don't really have a read on mastina."

(The first part was for Chesskid.) Hmm...

2358

"My main pause on whatever chesskid plan goes through is I don’t know yet if the lines are as cut and dry as “rc and mastina are both scum.” It just seems unlikely to me... I’ll go back and read Hindu posts on the matter (why he’s town) before pulling through with a lynch on chess/mastina, whoever"

Hmmmmmm...
There's something else in the same post:

Spoiler:

4. I buy that RC is capable of confident reading mastina that quickly and that he’s capable of confident reading chesskid scum at this point in time. But back when I was reading RC fighting chesskid, oh, idk, about 60 pages ago, i felt like there was a distinct possibility that RC’s fight with chesskid was constructed, like he went and told his team that he needed to get rid of chesskid immediately (i know he’s basically admitted to doing as such for miscellaneous town perspective reasons). Because i felt like a lot of his fire didnt have fuel.

But I also do know I read a lot of RC posts and just went: there’s no way this isn’t town. a lot of my impressions are lost in the sheer amount of posts and maybe I might go back and check but let’s be honest, probably not gonna happen

5. Last point- mastina definitely isnt capable of catching up as fast as I did. Well, she is, but I read for like 5 total hours and collected my thoughts as fast as possible while doing it. Mastina, wallposter and overanalyzer that she is, i dont know. Like it’s humanly capable but I dont know if its realistic to expect it from her, town or not

I can imagine him as their partner after reading that above.

In 2860 Mastina ended up on the "People who would conceivably get lynched today" list, RC on the "People who I would be willing to say are town currently, just from a working perspective".

RC was townread by him in many posts. He had very little interaction with both RC and Mastina.

Checking his posts again, I can see that his vote was parked on Katyusha, and he seemed to try to get reads on other players... but most of these latter reads were never crystallized.

TL;DR – He could be the third scum. I'm not sure whether he's scummier than Hinduragi/Ghostlin or not. We definitely need more content from Errant.

[Aneninen]

A confirmed scum mustn't be left alive.
The Setup says something like "PR's are present in a limited amount". Which means, we can't rule out that the scum have a kind of PR which may interfere with the Venge-kill.

[Aneninen]

It's

Something_Smart

now.

The first real comment about Mastina (apart from not buying Chesskid's case) is 1497:

"This game is painful to me and most of the things I've been considering recently are in which order we should kill RC, chesskid, and mastina."

1531

"I didn't like the way Srceen pushed on mastina while calling RC/chess TvT. Particularly if that is in fact not TvT, it sounds like diverting."

Almost null. Very soft defense on Mastina but

Dafuuuuuuuuuuq! The kitty has just farted at my face! Eeeeeew!

So, a very soft defense on Mastina but a kind of similar soft-attack on RC.

2014 He answeres RC, who asked who he scumread:

"First of all, I'm excluding you, mastina, and chesskid from consideration"

because of noise. Weak FoS, I guess. But in 2068, again responding RC:

"You feel town, chesskid feels scum, mastina feels scum."

This may be genuine.

This, 2090 was an answer for GuiltyLion:

"GL I'm not pushing mastina and I explicitly said that I would vote chesskid if it were part of an appropriate plan so I don't see where you're getting me as a likely mastina voter from?"

. If he scumread Mastina, why did he say this. However, this interaction tells us more about GuiltyLion...

2152

"if chesskid flips town I would trust his computer on mastina"

sounds town.

In 2795 he voted for Chesskid. But he scumread him actually, so, null.

2980–2992 could have come from a town, speculating on Mastina/Chesskid.

Not much further on RC. They had some interaction.

TL;DR – not much scummy here. His gameplay is unusual for me, but if this were his scumplay (which were very different from his townplay), others must have pointed it out by now.

________

Also, there's one more thing why we should lynch the confirmed scum. As long as RC's alive, he can talk to his scumbuddy and help him/her. Which help the scum.

[Aneninen]

Actually Reveal IC is a 5th level spell so you need to roll a 15 or higher on a d20+INT to successfully counter it

Lololololol!
As for D&D, so far my gameplay: 'Make an INT test.' [Aneninen rolls the die] 'It's... 1...'

If you're talking about the same thing, that post might have been posted in the wrong chat.

You keep saying this as its utter bullshit as a "reason why Ghostlin is scum."

Worried?
I'm examining everyone.

[Aneninen]

So,

Katyusha

185–187 – As soon as she posted

"I want Mastina’s thoughts"

Mastina answered literally instantly. (Check out the time tags.) Could be a coincidence, but still...

248 may be genuine. (Questions addressed to Mastina.)

305

"2. Point about opportunism is fair but the read from a single rvs vote feels more like a mastina tell than not"

– Soft-defense?

377, 382 – very subtle defense? (Could be. But it was very early Day1, so could be null.)

716 – she has no real read on Mastina

745 –

"also raybells do you have any non-gamestate/chesskid associative reasons to townread mastina"

– knowing their alignment this may be town reaction

I can't see the progression behind her vote for Mastina (774).

I don't know what to think about 779 –

"pedit: mastina can defend herself and if she changes my mind she changes my mind"

847 – Unvote and

"mastina bringing up reck's reads reminded me of something i missed"

– may be town trying to get reads???

1494 – Days her team townreads Mastina

In 1566 – Both RC and Mastina were on the town-end of the readlist

Votes for Chesskid in 2313 – Looks genuine

Even less about RadiantCowbells.

Tl;DR – somehow, her posts in general don't look scummy. I think she's a townie having seen Chesskid scummier than Mastina/RC.

________

Almost there, I'll check something else too.

[Aneninen]

Cross-check.

Mastina on Hinduragi

– townreading him very early, then in 846. 869 can be read as a defense on him. (?) Her readlist 917: Katyusha and RC are town, Hinduragi, Something_Smart, Errantparabola lean town.^* – In 1240 she wanted Hinduragi to ask his teammates. (It seems she wanted a town-read from his team.) In 1772 Mastina may have hoped a townread from Hindu? Or a wagon-derailing? (This make him look a bit townier). 1814 is a defense on him! 2787 is another townread, but this is Paradox. At that time Mastina was going down. What if she was buddy-ing him (like me)? Similar posts later.
– The early defenses suggest Hinduragi's scum, but the later posts contradict this somewhat.

Mastina on GuiltyLion

– In 2042 she said GL had been under her radar. 2953 She said GL had done nothing towny. 2954

"If Reck is town, then my current best guess for a third scum would be GuiltyLion"

a kind of talk about a scumbuddy (but Mastina may play better than this).
– She kept VERY big distance from him! This makes GuiltyLion look scummier.

Mastina on ErrantParabola

– In 888 she called him town. In 2042 too. In 2798 gut-town.
– Big distance here too, but we should consider how little content Errant produced. This makes him look bit scummier.

Mastina on Something_Smart

– Townread on him in 846, later it seemed Mastina tried to make Something_Smart townread her. (Or how can I explain.) More townreads, eg. 2042. Buddy-ing?
– Doesn't look like a scum-scum interaction. Something_Smart looks townier a bit.

Mastina on Katyusha

– Townread in 862. (Mentioned together in RC, and it's not likely that she named both buddies as "bleed town" in one sentence.) 2010 doesn't look scum-scum interaction. In 2028 Mastina tried to convince her to drop some of her townreads. More townread on her in 2042. Maybe in 2818 too.
– This doesn't make Katyusha look scummier.


Because of the sheer size of RC's ISO I refuse to do the same process with him.

________

* = This readlist is the first thing that makes me wonder whether my original hypothesis – scum didn't bus – is wrong. Could it be that Mastina was townreading all of her buddies?

[Aneninen]

The summary of the cross-interaction ISO. Could they be Mastina's scumbuddy?

GuiltyLion – Very Likely
Ghostlin – Quite likely
ErrantParabola – Likely (more content needed)
Something_Smart – Not likely
Katyusha – Very unlikely

[Aneninen]

Anyway, pending mod explanation I think I like GuiltyLion's plan for today - we elect then lynch a scumread, have them venge RC if town, and move on. This just means we get info faster which is the whole point.

Not a good idea. As long as RC's alive the scum can plan things together. For example, RC could dig up silly posts from townies, post them via Scum PT and his buddy can throw them in the chat. (His buddy can do the same, obviously, but with RC alive they have twice the time and energy for it!)

Rereading from that point (2513) is actually really interesting and potentially revealing. I'd recommend it especially for people who are good at wagon analysis.

It topped with 5 Votes. BigYoshiFan jumped off first. I guess Katyusha next.

today we lynch RC, and whoever we give the vengeful to we lynch in lylo (if we get there).

The Invention doesn't work at LyLo.

[Aneninen]

Anyway, pending mod explanation I think I like GuiltyLion's plan for today - we elect then lynch a scumread, have them venge RC if town, and move on. This just means we get info faster which is the whole point.

I still don't like the idea.
Firstly, I must admit, it's partly my gut: it has come from a slot I scumread.
Secondly, if we follow that plan we use up the ability for removing a known scum. Indeed, it's safer to take out a scum plus a scumread player. But if we simply lynch RC and give the Invention to a scumread player telling them whom to target we can get rid of two

scumread

players. Which is, essentially, a double lynch for us. (Consider this. For example, if we lynch RC and I got the Invention, I'd target a player commonly scumread and not someone who's obv-town for many or someone who

I

think the scum is. We'd end Day3 without, as an example, Aneninen and GuiltyLion present. And not, say, without Aneninen and Singersinger.)

The thing about GL scum is that you'd have to believe RC KNEW his GL wagon attempt would fail, because lynching the only partner not under a chesskid tunnel is practically suicide.

That said... I do believe RC expected that wagon to fail.

That may have happened. Someone should check those pages again. Generally said, I'd be happier if more of you took a closer look at Day1.

Of course it was going to fail, voting for someone besides chesskid/mastina yesterday meant knowing it wasn't going to lead to a lynch

And you were voting for... Errant?

Rereading from that point (2513) is actually really interesting and potentially revealing. I'd recommend it especially for people who are good at wagon analysis.

Spoiler:

Right after the vote the talk went on about other topics, eg. Chesskid/Matina and me. What tells me a lot is RC's 2524. As af as I've experienced, whenever he

really

wants someone to get lynched, he's very aggressive. Here, he didn't even tried to gain some momentum for the GuiltyLion-wagon!
In fact, there was this, in 2533:

"For the record if you think Reck is scum then Mastina is probably town so you should stick with the current vote on GL."

It sounds like a subtle manipulation from RC. And indeed, Hinduragi re-votes Reckoner in 2538.

In 2542 RC said he wanted to se a GL lynch, but compared to his usual gamestlye, it was very soft. 2557 is stronger (and Hinduragi put back his vote for GL later), however, it was only 2 of them there at that time.

Cheeky jumped on the wagon in 2569 (naked vote) and RC said thank you later.

In 2579 RC asked whether Yoshi would join the GL-wagon. RC's mini-case in 2587 was weak. (That's more likely not informative about GL, knowing that RC is scum.) Yoshi joins in 2596. There was no thank you from RC this time, he started to talk about Reckoner. Reckoner joins in 2621.

What caveats the GL's scum idea is 2625. RC may have posted this for the following reason: he wanted a lynch outside of Chesskid/Mastina (knowing that either of them gets lynched, Mastina dies). Later posts confirm this...

...but in 2633, after GL had posted, there was this:

"Okay, I will only derail GL if I think that he is more likely to be town than Mastina. Deal?"

. WTF?!
I don't know whether the RC–GL interaction on the same page is genuine or not. Meanwhile Yoshi jumped off the wagon.

TL;DR – I don't know. RC started pushing the wagon softer than he usually does. He added more fuel when it gained momentum. The whole story died out at the time when my catchup arrived and Chesskid was present again. Could be a counterwagon-attempt, or a Day1 Bussing. (The latter might make some sense, since at that time Reckoner hadn't been elected yet.) I can't strengthen nor weaken my GL read after checking these pages.

I’m at

{Creature} - Creature
{BYF, SS, singer, VF, Anen, smocaine} - Very Confidently Town
{EP, GL} - PoE not-as-town
{Ghostlin} - Scum

Creature is Smocaine...

So this paints a larger noose on me but fuck it: mastina hates bussing, generally.

I know. But would she put all her buddies in the town category at a readlist?

How does that change if you feel GL is scum? After a point, you have to consider two things:

If GL is actually scum, what does he gain on this?

Why are you using his plan if you think he's scum?

My problem at the end of the day is that you're either knowingly using a scum plan or something else is going on.

THAT!

[Aneninen]

*shrug*
Whatever the majority wants, Katyusha. Just don't forget to lynch me before LyLo.

Also, someone could imagine the late-Day1 part. When did the scum realize that Mastina would be lynched and RC would be targetted by Reckoner? Whose posts (attitude, topics) had been changing at that time?

[Aneninen]

Creature is Smocaine...

Also, no, creature is still in the game.
Chesskid swapped out for Smocaine.
Wouldn't mind if Spam Squad felt swapping was a good idea, however, and this is their last chance to do it.

...ugh.
But frankly, who's got surprised that I managed to post something utterly stupid again?

[Aneninen]

Do you see my point though? I really don't think this is the point in the game we just let things slide if we have an issue with them, and if you think there's something wrong about GL's plan then you should voice it.

I've already expressed my problems with GL's plan. I have nothing new to say right now.

I may take a brief look on those who were on the Mastina wagon later. (Even if I doubt I'll find scum there.) Meanwhile, we should decide which plan we should perform.

Also, here's another important question. Why did Cheeky die? What danger did she mean – and to whom?

[Aneninen]

So, it's partly PoE, partly because Cheeky would have been un-lynchable.
I know I was her scumread, yet another thing why I shouldn't be here at LyLo. (Ideally, however, there will be no LyLo in this game.)

As for GL's plan. Scum might have a kind of PR which could interfere the plan. Also, my intuition says something's wrong with it, but I can't put my finger on more things than I've already expressed.

[Aneninen]

No definite idea. But, this is a nonstandard game, because of the Inventions.

[Aneninen]

Minor reads. (Those who were at the Mastina-wagon.)

As for

Chesskid

, I've already expressed my thoughts. I still don't think he should be alive at LyLo, but everyone else seems to obv-town him, this might not be an issue at all.

Srceenplay

had a constant scumread on Mastina. Some might say, he might have bussed her. But frankly, he could have done plenty of things to avoid her lynch. For example, voting for me, whom he had been scumreading too. Noone would have been surprised by that. I don't think he's scum.

Creature

didn't post a lot about her before his vote. However, he didn't post a lot about anything... He was on and off her wagon, he wanted to interact with Mastina. (Would a scum ignore that?) His read on her got fixed later. So many people were saying scum-Creature is easy to be recognized, so I don't think he's scum.

BigYoshiFan

had no read on her and thought Chesskid had been scummier. Than that no read turned to a townread. After a long time, in his 2789 he voted for Mastina. The reasons there could be genuine. If someone was scum on her wagon, BigYoshiFan might have been the one who was bussing Mastina.

Primate/Singersinger

Primate had no read on her. Singersinger scumread her as soon as she replaced in. I don't think she's scum.

________

TL;DR – None of the names on her wagon looks particularly scummy. My gun-to-head pick would be BigYoshiFan, followed by Srceenplay (whom I'd pick on a different tier). But, as for overall scumminess I'd put BigYoshiFan in the same tier as Katyusha, who I think the least scummy among those who were away.

[Aneninen]

OFF

Finally, I've got Mewtwo!

/OFF

[Aneninen]

Something_Smart
Unfortunately, ethical reasons don't rule out anything...

[Aneninen]

I don't see that as argument so much as this: the play's suboptimal. It involves chess/smocaine slot to literally bus both RC and mastina in a gambit, get them to agree, get them both lynched, and then somehow elude suspicion in a three person LYLO to win.

I don't see scum!mastina agreeing to such a play.

That's true. As far as I remember Mastina hates bussing.
Also, it would have made sense if either of them had been bussed. But after a while it was obvious that Reck would target RC, which means another scum-lynch.

Srceen: If anyone's got a towncase give me the towncase otherwise just kill this person at some point. plausible bus? (Update: reading d2 makes me feel okay with Srceen town maybe)

Indeed there wasn't much townish in his Day1. But, as I posted in 3426, I can't see him as Mastina's partner. He was scumreading Mastina all Day1, which might have been a bus. But, when things started going terrible (yet again, don't ignore Reckoner's targetting!), he could have jumped off. If Mastina had gone for scumreading me, she, Srceenplay and Singersinger (And Cheeky and others) could have pushed my wagon to lynch.

Katyusha: At first glance is a plausible 3rd partner but again I do remember feeling like she was town last I heard. I know I've been nursing a super scumread for a long time and I want to trust that

I've posted about her too.

Disagree. Maybe it's less likely that they bus but scum only needs one person to endgame. It's a plausible strategy. Don't discount those on the wagon.

It's not only that I don't think they were bussing. I've examined all the names on the wagon and even the scummiest one (BigYoshiFan) doesn't look too scummy compared to those who were off. [Apart from Chesskid/Smocaine and me, but I've explained this before.]

This is very plausible considering RC pushed GL hard and I guess I'd like everyone who thinks GL is scummy to parse this and make sure that this observation is cohesive with their read, especially anyone in team John Galt who's following this game and Aneninen

In 3284 I examined him. Also, in 3371 I posted that Mastina was distancing hard from GL. (And more or less, vice versa.)

I have experience here (I think it was DEFCON?) but I don't remember anything about this so please elaborate

Something_Smart has an incredibly slow gameplay right now. I've never met him before so I don't know whether it fits his meta. But I guess if his townplay were entirely different, other players with some experience would have pointed it out by now.

Bam! Counterspell has successfully resolved.

Huh what?

Was that action real?

Is that normal from Creature?

[Aneninen]

OMFG IT TOOK ME TO CRL-F GUILTY TO REALIZE THAT HE'D BEEN REFERRING TO HIM AS ADENINE FUCKING SCUM FUCK

?

However VCA shows Aneninen voted for RC first

That was an RVS. Actually, if my memories are correct, long ago RC and me RVS-ed each other all the time. (I should have known that something was wrong when he RVS-ed someone else lol.)

What're the chances all three scum wagoned the same townie right out of the gate...

Whom are you thinking about?

Mastina's comments about Aneninen...837 feels like withholding from Aneninen...consistent scumread but never truly pushing, always calling other people out for not pushing. Devil's advocate: could be trying to get a wagon going on someone other than his scumbuddy...

Mind her later change. At the end of the Day she started buddy-ing me.

I'm bored, I feel like this game stagnated and I'll take responsibility for losing steam once we nailed 2/3 scum. I think at this point we just need to agree on a plan and Take 2 tomorrow if we have to.

Why do you think we're stalled?
Long ago, I had a tell called Unexpected Gamestall. Do you think it's happening? (Caveat: that tell is about 2 years old.)

________

We need to decide
(1) which plan we should follow, the original one (lynch RC, give the Vengeful to someone scummy) or GL's (give the Vengeful to someone scummy and make him Vengekill RC).
(2) whom do we give the Vengeful.

Unelect

Elect: Ghostlin

Willing to elect GuiltyLion or self as well.

[Aneninen]

Post-edit.

What

What what?

[Aneninen]

re: srceen, I think it's a plausible bus. There was no way mastina would have made it alive with chesskid anywhere in the game.
re: GL, thanks for those interaction things, I really liked that.
re: SS, so basically the logic is "if he were scum, some other people would have caught him by now" ?????? that seems ridiculous.

As for Srceenshot: I wouldn't rule that out entirely, but Srceenplay had been scumreading way before Chesskind threw that Elli-tell in.
As for Something_Smart: I explained something else. His gameplay is weirdly slow or slowly weird, suit yourself. But if this were very far from his townplay, someone must have told it us by now. Who has some useful direct meta about him anyway?

Singersinger-mix.

So I was trying to see who RC and mastina address more or less frequently. When I searched for your name "Anen" it barely came up in RC's ISO, and it wasn't until I started doing it with GuiltyLion that I noticed he referred to you as "Adenine."

RC keeps thinking I'm building DNA.
On the other hand, I doubt a scum would fake things like these.

You, RC, and mastina were all on Reck for a few votecounts at the beginning. I don't know if I believe that as I'm starting to convince myself you're town, but. Flushing things out...

As for any early-votes for Reckoner: that might have happened because Reckoner had posted that the Firebringer/RC swap had been a tell. Also, my team told me that it had been scummy. However, who else was on Reckoner?

To be honest, I think we're stalled because we've caught two scum, and are trying to be the most efficient to find the third but since that's not happening instantly it's just like...why not just lynch RC already, amirite.

I'd still say, lynch RC, give the Vengeful to someone else.

[Aneninen]

The summary of my reads right now.

<towniest>

Creature, Singersinger
Srceenplay
Chesskid
...
Katyusha, BigYoshiFan
Something_Smart
...
ErrantParabola
...
GuiltyLion, Ghostlin

<scummiest>

I don't think I could salvage anything more out of the game right now.

So, unless someone has something important to do, let's decide which plan to follow and move on.

[Aneninen]

Post-edit

Adenine I just want you to know you're the most important pigeon in my life.

(With no sarcasm)

[Aneninen]

Aaaaa that's lovely!

However, that's clearly AtE, so you're scum RC! ^_^

[Aneninen]

Do you remember that time I was the bus driver?

Uhhhh of course I do.
Your team got nominated for that, didn't they?

[Aneninen]

I'd promote Katyusha here.

Care to explain?

[Aneninen]

Can you talk to me about how you put me so high on your list? It started out as a town-lean which you explained, but I can't seem to find how your read on me evolved, really.

I've examined everyone on and off the Mastina-wagon. Firstly, those who were on are much less likely scum.
Secondly, although Primate had no read on Mastina, you started scumreading him shortly after replacing in. It could have been a bus, but (as I've posted about this too) unlikely. Also, what I said about Srceenplay (Vonflare) is true about you as well. I mean, as Mastina's scumbuddy, you could have hopped off to vote for me any time. You could have gained enough support for building a counter-wagon to save Mastina. (Especially after it got clear that Reckoner would target RC!) That didn't happen.

I didnt say ghost bussed, I said ghost was drawing attention to the possibilty of other players bussing

Wasn't that GuiltyLion?

Ok so I just realized that we should lynch RC instead of vigging him because he can come in and hammer town, messing with the votes, etc. Once he's out of the way then we can work confidently knowing that only one scum left manipulating the show.

Erm... I've been saying this for a while...

[Aneninen]

I find it hilarious and amazing that no one pointed out that I tried to get Hindu to be the one that hid behind Mastina.

I haven't caught up and I don't have time to do so but we should check this whether it's true. RC has all the motivation to lie.

[Aneninen]

Hold up— why arent we lynching RC? What the hell is this setup? 12 - 3 and one scum is traitor?

Also that. It sounds unbalanced.

[Aneninen]

Whom are we lynching?
If RC, Ghostlin should target GuiltyLion or me at Night if he gets shot.

[Aneninen]

I strongly think that in this situation analysing the Nightkill is a WIFOM goldmine.
If anyone happens to be interested in my opinion, I'll say Katyusha got Nightkilled because she wasn't in the lynchpool. That's all we know.

We need to decide the following:
(1) Either we lynch Ghostlin and decide whom he shall Vengekill or
(2) We lynch someone else and save the Vengekill ability for later.

Also,

@beeboy...is the doctor self-targetable?

This is an important question.
I think if self-targetting is allowed we should pick the most commonly townread player. If not, we should pick one of our scumreads.

There's another question for everyone. Should we massclaim Today or not? My opinion on this topic is clearly irrelevant.

[Aneninen]

I guess 2, because scum!Ghostlin would've conceded.

either way and regardless of anything else we lynch ghost in lylo if we get there

Creature, we can not be sure. It's not over 'till it's over.
Vonflare: in this game, Vengeful doesn't work in LyLo.

@Ghostlin

- who do you currently want to venge?

Ghostlin, do not answer this yet!

Since the doctor can't self-target, I think we should elect a scummier player and make them promise to protect Smocaine or Creature.

The question above and this makes me feel that you want to know what the PRs are doing. Why?

As for the election, that was my first thought too. We definitely shouldn't choose a generally townread player. If we did so, the scum would simply Nightkill them. Choosing a scummy one would be better... unless we elect the remaining scum.
What if we elect ErrantParabola? He may or may not be lynchable, so not an obvious Nightkill. (So if the scum targets him we won't lose an obv-town player out of the lynch-pool.) However, he may pick someone who's widely townread. But, he's still not as scummy as some of us.

I'm actually thinking now that Anenien is the last scum. The way he formulaically stuck to his "scum didn't bus Mastina" gamestate view on D2 and shaded my slot throughout while still pushing Ghostlin - essentially putting us on the same tier - feels like scum that needs a bunch of mislynches.

Remember, I examined not only the posts themselves but all the interactions with Mastina and RC (and the other way around too).

Add in the repeated "I shouldn't live until LYLO" mantra for WIFOM, his reluctance to conftown the Smocaine slot (also saying that the slot shouldn't be alive in LYLO?), and his general "lynchpool" approach and it doesn't feel to me like genuine sorting, more like trying to establish a favorable chain of lynches and encourage town infighting.

So many things to answer.
Firstly, I still don't think I should be here in LyLo.
Secondly, Smocaine can not be called conf-town. Chesskid's Elli-tell and the whole push might have been artificial too. And the whole Day1 with all the fight, the walls, the spam might have been planned by the scum team.
Thirdly, I think you were the one who wanted to widen the lynch-pool on Day2. My "chain of lynches" was merely a suggestion and it's obvious that it won't happen if all the others are disagree with my reads.
Forthly, what "town infight" are you talking about? Every single scumread on a townie is a "town infight".

@Anen - can you break down why you keep saying Smocaine shouldn't be alive in LYLO? what difference does it make lynching him earlier rather than later, and isn't that dependent on his alignment? What is gained by lynching him at 5p rather than 3p?

Partly, see above!
Also, if Smocaine were here in LyLo, we'd end up in a WIFOM. (It's on the Wiki page too.)

[Aneninen]

@Ghostlin

- who do you currently want to venge?

Ghostlin, do not answer this

yet

!

why can't Ghostlin answer this???

You ignored the word 'yet'.
You may be curious whom Ghostlin would choose

before

you decide whom we should lynch Today. That's what I think.

uh, what? What PRs are you talking about, the venge and the doc? What I said is no different than what you said, I was agreeing on that point.

Yeah, those. (However, we don't know whether there's something else out too.)
The difference is huge. You actually made

suggestions

whom the Doctor should protect. If the Doctor reveals his target in advance, that helps the scum in choosing the Nightkill.

Yeah but both Smart and Ghostlin have already pointed out succinctly why this is pretty much impossibly unlikely in 3427 and 3430. And yet you keep riffing on this.

This time you ignored my readlist posted in 3496. I put Chesskid/Smocaine among my

townreads

, my thought that we shouldn't let Smocaine alive until LyLo is an

addition

.

ASSUMING WE ARE TO LYNCH SMOCAINE, what exactly is gained in your view by lynching him prior to LYLO

I've already answered that. If he's still here, that may generate a WIFOM, just because of the fact that he

hasn't get Nightkilled until LyLo

.

Okay, if you're going to again accuse me of "widening the lynchpool", then please explain:
1) Who is in Anen's lynchpool
2) Who is in GL's lynchpool
3) Why set 2 is larger than set 3

Check out my readlist again. My lynch-pool consists of Ghostlin, you, maybe ErrantParabola and, strictly said, myself. 4 names.
On the other hand, since 3086 you've been telling that the scum may have bussed. (Which I still think is very unlikely.) By doing so, you put 4 additional names in your lynchpool (5 with me).

________

I strongly think you keep ignoring certain things I post and misrepresenting me. Also, I repeat: you want to know what the PRs are going to do. These things make me think that you're scum.

[Aneninen]

These, again:

We need to decide the following:
(1) Either we lynch Ghostlin and decide whom he shall Vengekill or
(2) We lynch someone else and save the Vengekill ability for later.

There's another question for everyone. Should we massclaim Today or not? My opinion on this topic is clearly irrelevant.

Also,

Elect: ErrantParabola

[Aneninen]

Here for only a bit, but a few things:
--at the moment, if we lynch me, I am here to do the will of Town with my shot.
-- You need to all lynch me out of LYLO to use the venge gun and I'm OK with you all doing so.

Good. However, it's still not decided whether we're lynching you Today. And we shouldn't talk about your Vengekill until your lynch is decided.

Why are you shading the smocaine slot here?

I've already explained it.
However, I've been thinking and there's one more thing which tells me that he's town after all. As scum he'd definitely Nightkilled me. To remove the one who had doubts about him.

________

Where's everyone? There's hardly any content.

[Aneninen]

vote: GL

. This has passed the second round of focus testing. Make it so.

What's your case? Why do you think he's scummier than Ghostlin?

Guessing the nightkills weren't because they were correct, but rather just scum getting rid of the loudmouths.

Erm, getting rid of the active players is not essentially good for the scum. An active one constantly misreading others can help the scum a lot, for example.

I don't see the doc getting nk'd, at least the odds seem the same as any other townie. they obviously use it tonight, right?

That's why we should elect someone who's

in

our lynch-pool. I mean, the scum can Nightkill the Doc but remove a possible mislynch at the same time. (Assuming we don't give the Doc to the scum.)

elect: BigYoshiFan
vote: Ghostlin

I feel very strongly that if all of Aneninen, Ghostlin, GuiltyLion, and Errant die, we will win.

And if not, it's LyLo. We might have a chance for a MyLo with 4 players if we elect someone on that list (but not Ghostlin). Either the scum shoot a lynchable player or the Doc could have a chance for stopping a Nightkill. The question is (for which I don't know the answer), will it hurt us if we give the Doc to the scum him/herself? If not (which my guess is), ErrantParabola's a better idea. (Or GuiltyLion, or me.)

also we should win on today's lynch

If we lynch scum, and it's not what we're doing rn.

How do you know that?

Leaning on Aneninen being scum.

Could you summarize your case?

[Aneninen]

Mod

, as far as I know I'm allowed to create a post like this. According to this, I'm not violating anything.

Since the game's stalled, I've examined the general activity of other players.

Spoiler:

Creature – relatively active elsewhere, post-gap here.
Singersinger – not a single post anywhere else.
Smocaine – not a single post anywhere else.
Vonflare – active all-around, but not as passive here as well.
Something_Smart – similar amount of posts elswhere as here.
Ghostlin – active elsewhere, almost nothing here.
BigYoshiFan – general inactivity.
ErrantParabola – active elsewhere, almost nothing here.
GuiltyLion – active elsewhere, almost nothing here.

Unfortunately, the same names have some activity anomaly as the ones are in my lynch-pool (with the possible exception of Creature, but he shows smaller anomaly).

[Aneninen]

Hi. Are we electing me because you trust me or because you don't?

Elect BigYoshiFan

VOTE: Ghostlin

Both.

Explain, please.

I think scum is pretty screwed at this point and we might as well just agree on who's most important to keep someone alive with the doc protect. If scum don't kill the elected doc tonight then that limits them even further. And the point of having a named target is that if scum gets elected the doc, then they can't NK that target without incriminating themselves. If the doctor's protection is ambiguous, then if scum gets the doc they can kill anybody and lie and say they protected somebody else

That doesn't make much sense to me.
My logic is the following:
if we elect a scummy-looking player as the Doc who does not tell us their target, the scum has two choices. Either he/she Nightkills the Doc, which means (from their point of view) a lynchable player is out of the game. If he/she targets anyone else, there's a chance that the Doc's protection stops the Nightkill and the scum end up not performing the kill. (That's a kind of counter-WIFOM: if the scum targets the most townish player the chance for the Doc targetting the same person is high. So the scum could Nightkill the

second

most townish one to avoid the Doc... unless the Doc does the same, in which case...)
If we "manage" to elect the scum as the Doc, there will be a non-informative Nightkill, I guess. Which is worse, but I don't consider it a tragedy.

If we follow your logic, there

will

be a Nightkill, and whoever the Doc protects, the scum can go after them next Night. (Unless they get lynched.) If we elect a town-looking player as the Doc, the scum will simply Nightkill him. (If not, there will be a WIFOM, I think.)

What specifically does scum!GL gain out of advocating to protect Smocaine or Creature?

Having the piece of information whom you must not try to Nightkill.

I'd probably protect Smocaine.
I'm particularly against protecting Ghostlin (duh), Vonflare, Aneninen, and GL. I think everyone else is pretty town.

good enough for me

elect BYF

And this is another thing from GuiltyLion which makes no sence from the town point of view. See above; he wanted to know whom the Doc will protect – and got it.

I'd rather you protect Creature than Smocaine, if you're going to announce it.

Alternatively, toss a coin at Night.
But I still don't think it's a good idea to elect BigYoshiFan. We should go fore a scummier player; see above.

[Aneninen]

If we elect him as the Doc, he will very likely, because the Doc can't self-target.

[Aneninen]

(1) I think the scum has quite a lot of choices, as for players out of the lynch-pool. So it's not a big advantage for town that a certain player will not die

Tonight

. This means, that player can be Nightkilled one Night later, that's all. However, if the Doc's target is public the chance for a Nightkill is 100%.

(2) Even if I townread someone I have

all

the motivation to question them. I don't even get it why this is a thing.

(3) What citation do you need? I've expressed it before, more than once, that you want to know what the PRs are doing. Guess what, I'm not interested in that. Whoever the Doc protects, fine for me. And if Ghostlin Vengekills me at any point of the game? Also fine. You're the one who's worried about the PR-actions.

[Aneninen]

Where's everyone?!!

BigYoshiFan, ErrantParabola, Creature, Vonflare, Ghostlin: it's clear that you've posted elsewhere but done nothing here recently!!!

Also,

Mod

, Smocaine, Vonflare and Ghostlin are in the prod zone now!!!

[Aneninen]

What do you think of Ghostlin's sudden post right after I called out everyone who had posted elsewhere but not here?

[Aneninen]

Also, why can't we elect Errant instead of Yoshi? I've already expressed my reasons for that.

[Aneninen]

Feel free to elect me instead. I'm also ready to end the day. I'd probably add vonflare and singer to singer's pool.

What pool?

What do you think of Ghostlin's sudden post right after I called out everyone who had posted elsewhere but not here?

It's not great.
But he's also right, so.

What was right?

I'm fine with Errant or Yoshi.

Why not Errant then?

My death pool? You want to include two people to my death pool...making it six people...out of ten...

Did he mean that? Why would you add yourself?

Can we decide on who ghostlin kills before we lynch him?

I'm not sure whether it's a good idea or not. In theory, if we decide it together, we'll see whether his target has objections. But that can be faked by the scum too.
But he definitely should pick one of these: GuiltyLion, Errant, Aneninen

________

I'm ready to end the Day.
Let's lynch either Ghostlin or GuiltyLion.
If we don't give the Invention to Errant, I can elect BigYoshiFan too.

[Aneninen]

Singersinger, I thought it might be a better idea, but okay.

Elect: BigYoshiFan

And I don't know whether I'll have time today.

[Aneninen]

I know my wiki is outdated but the answer is here.

[Aneninen]

But wasn't he posting elsewhere?

[Aneninen]

Toiletpost.
I thought he had posted in other games. I only checked his post list not his post themselves.

I still think his instant showingup was terrible.

I guess we could lynch him and if you all wish, he can vengekill me. And if it's not over, lynch GL Tomorrow.

[Aneninen]

F-ck this shyt.

VOTE: Ghostlin

Ghostlin, read my lips:

Vengekill: Aneninen

[Aneninen]

Could be.

Shall we end the Day?
I don't think there's anything else we can discuss now.

[Aneninen]

Okay,

RAGE ON

I fucking know how terrible my ISO is!
Why do you think I told you on Day2 that I must not be here at LyLo?! At least someone has done the dirty job earlier and I've been ISOed in time. And not at LyLo.
You know what? As I saw Reckoner dying I knew how bad my existence for the town is. HAVEN'T I TOLD YOU ALL THE TIME???!!!!!

I fucking did everything Yesterday and Today I could. I've never been a genius but at least I HAVE TRIED.

You know, the last Team Mafia was literally "Team". My lynch had been planned long before it actually happened. My team'd been working on it and my scumteam had been working on it. We only needed enough mislynch and I framed Elk and CES hard. We bussed with BBT and Regfan each other as we could, they did the dirty job in the end (GENIUSLY!!!!!), because "in White Flag scums don't bus". Fuck that shit! It wasn't my win. I just did my part.

BUT

I. DON'T. WANT. TO. FUCK. THIS. UP. FOR. MY. TEAM. BY. GETTING. LYNCHED. AT. LYLO. !!! And I WOULD BE LYNCHED THERE because any scumteam with a little common sense would never Nightkill me.

In short, I know I got framed. I know how terrible my Day1 was. And you should never believe me. Not even this! Some talented player would meta me later to find it out that I can do this whole shit as scum too!

SOOOOOOOOO

Either GuiltyLion has fucked it up because he should have waited with that post. Or he's not scum. Fucking don't know which. The point is, let's lynch Ghostlin, who Vengekills me and let's lynch GuiltyLion Tomorrow. If it's still not over, which I doubt, Errant is next. If still nothing, I have no idea what to do. That's gonna be your fucking problem.
Or vice versa, let's lynch GuiltyLion Today and Ghostlin+me Tomorrow. Or whatever, GuiltyLion+Ghostlin Today, me Tomorrow. You decide. I FUCKING DON'T CARE. But if I'm still here say, on Day5 or so THE WHOLE TOWN IS PLAYING THIS BADLY!!!!!!!!!

The point is. TOWN HAS FUCKING BETTER CHANCE TO WIN IF I'M NOT HERE. PERIOD.

Move on now.

Aneninen out.

RAGE OFF.

[Aneninen]

ANENIEN THERE IS NO NEED TO RAGE THIS GAME IS OPEN AND SHUT. THIS LEADS ME TO BELIEVE THAT YOU THINK WE ARE ON THE WRONG PATH. TALK TO ME BIG GUY. I WILL DUE WHAT I CAN WITH WHAT LITTLE ACCESS I HAVE TO FREE THOUGHT.

I have nothing new to say.

[Aneninen]

As for the Vengekill, pick me.

I can fake that rage as scum, so trust me, it's null in itself.

Singersinger is town because of her hard-bussing on Mastina on Day1 (which went on when it had been decided whom Reckoner would target). Plus, she has a quite narrow lynch-pool, which wouldn't help scum-Singer in this situation.

[Aneninen]

Let me f-cking go then.

[Aneninen]

Was Ghost hammered?

Yes, he was.

Pretty sure RC dictated to kill Cheeky and Katyusha,

the easiest townreads for me

.

Why did you say that?

I'd say stick with the Aneninen vengekill.

So would I.

________

And now we wait.