Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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You did, you are just trying to use his reaction as justification for changing that read. The timing is bad. You have no true 'case' on Dunn, you couldn't even make one. Fair enough on the weekend inactivity. Yet let it be known that when I try to show you my thought process, you don't actually care to interact with it. You never scum read me in Day 3, your case only came upaftermy defense of CES. This is the same case with Davsto.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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That's fair, I'll drop that point.In post 4121, Thestatusquo wrote: this is just straight up false. I have posted multiple times this weekend, even though I'm low access on weekends. you'll just say fucking anything.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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1. I'm talking about the CES read. You only reconsidered at the last minute.
2. Originally your push on Dunn was never convincing, you said 'there's nothing there' which is why to me, that was more of a null. So you not being able to case him, doesn't make sense when you have strong conviction. You stating it is GUT, is your only fall back. Otherwise, you would have said it was gut from the beginning.
3. Your case was talking about days before Day 3, so I don't understand why you say that. It would make more sense for you to have brought this up before today. Your case wasn't based on actions only coming from Day 4. So, it makes more sense that you are indeed using CES's flip to push me/dunn rather then push me before hand, which would make more sense if you truly did believe in it.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Put simply, your pool of [Dunn, NSG, Marquis] shows that you had less options to go for at the time. Again, this goes back to you having static reads. That is why you are not able to CASE dunn, you had little fuel. You say you *CAN* make cases as scum, and I'm not disputing that. At that time, you had no other cases you could make, so you had to just default to that, and default to sheeping me onto Marquis.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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1. No he wasn't. You yourself said he wasn't being hypertown yet you excused it anyway, in your response to me in Day 2.In post 4133, Thestatusquo wrote:
1) the ces read changed because it was based on meta. I have played many many games with ces. He was mostly playing to his town meta. That response, as I explained multiple times, does not fit in my town meta of ces. Town ces would never respond that way. I have explained this at least 3 times. You are actively ignoring those posts to make this argument.In post 4129, Ranmaru wrote:1. I'm talking about the CES read. You only reconsidered at the last minute.
2. Originally your push on Dunn was never convincing, you said 'there's nothing there' which is why to me, that was more of a null. So you not being able to case him, doesn't make sense when you have strong conviction. You stating it is GUT, is your only fall back. Otherwise, you would have said it was gut from the beginning.
3. Your case was talking about days before Day 3, so I don't understand why you say that. It would make more sense for you to have brought this up before today. Your case wasn't based on actions only coming from Day 4. So, it makes more sense that you are indeed using CES's flip to push me/dunn rather then push me before hand, which would make more sense if you truly did believe in it.
2) this is not responsive to any of the things I quoted. Whats my motivation ran? WHY is it scummy?
3) my case is talking about the sum total of your actions. the majority of it is based on how on day 3 you were willing to vote literally the whole town besides the scum. as well as the actions and tactics you have that have significant scum motivation.
but saying its not based on 3 is definitely a lie. the vast majority of the case is talking about day 3. much of it is predicated on your suspicions and votin patterns on day 3 specifically.
can you stop fucking bald face lying?
2. Motivation: Let Ran do all the work while Shea just sits there, in the background, using the excuse that he can't case anyone at the moment. If he were town he'd be more influential.
3. I meant to say that your case is talking about Day 3 and before in general, so it would have made sense for you to bring that up, in Day 3, not after CES flips. That's why I'm saying, that you used CES as the spark, so you would build your case around it.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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1. Dude, that's what I'm talking about. I got the wording wrong. Yet you said he wasn't as aggressive here as he was in his town games.
2. You have no other options you can go for. If you are town, why bring up things about Dan but never actually push him, and just stick to your pool?
3. This is the reason you are scum. It makes more sense that town would be ignorant and push for what they believe in passionately, even at the wrong time. You have to consider why I originally had town cred at all first. Did it seem like I was just doing all that just to be town read?-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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You use the meta to defend him. It would make more sense for you to support his wagon before L-2. Not after.In post 1594, Thestatusquo wrote:My ces read is basically that CES is being useless but that this doesn't make him scum. If you look at The first mafia, for instance, he's very similar in my eyes. Hyper focused on weirdly specific parts of the game. Relatively same level of participation in the game by total post count, its similar right down to the hammer graphic he posted in this game. He's a little bit more aggressive in his hyper specific focuses, but that's a pretty small difference in play. Basically I think everyone scum reading ces isn't really bothering to meta him. I'm not saying he's town, as you can see by my read list but I think lockscumming him over other players doesn't make a lot of sense once you look deeper into his meta.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Can you talk to me about Shea?In post 4168, Shadoweh wrote::/ I really don't want to be choosing between Ran and TSQ, this is ridiculous.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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As I had more time to think about it, I decided it was most likely either [Shea, Davsto] or [Shea, Quick]. I have support for it now, so I am going for it now. Simple as that. At the start of Day 4, I said Marquis and Dan since I didn't have time to case or anything. So this is why I have the pool of [Shea, Davsto, Quick].-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Shea, I just said as I had more time to think about it, I eventually decided you were scum with either Davsto or Quick. It makes more sense to me that you see Quick and Gamma vote CES, and then you plop on in desperation. I could be wrong on Quick in that case. I see it as possible that You and Quick are scum and suddenly reverse your reads in the last minute to use it against me, rather then work with me when I was pushing CES earlier. I see Gamma as most likely to be town from the three.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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I should say, you reverse it at a time that his wagon is L-2. So you reverse it when there is plenty of support for his lynch.In post 4214, Thestatusquo wrote:I didn't reverse my reads at the last minute. I spent the remaining many days left in that day lobbying for that lynch while people actively resisted it, yourself included. I didn't vote ces with 1 day til deadline and hammer. I changed my mind and then I lobbied hard for the list, including trying to get you on it repeatedly.
I wasn't a passive participant. I actively tried to make that lynch happen after voting it. If its a bus why wouldn't I hop on and hope the wagon dissipated. It definitely could have if I hadn't been continuing to push on it, especially with you doing everything in your power to stop it
At that point you have to keep it up for appearances sake. Hopping on, and doing nothing is suicidal. When you hop on, you kiss CES goodbye, for the greater good of your team. (Which means, town cred)-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Let's talk about this. Do you think his reasoning to vote CES initially was solid?In post 4221, Thestatusquo wrote:how could you possibly look at davstos ces interactions and think that scum pairing makes sense?-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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What? I disagree with your Davsto statement here. I don't see how at all, that seems like I'm trying to 'trap' you.In post 4233, Thestatusquo wrote:
why? is it because you want to spring another "trap" on me about things I've already explained three times?In post 4226, Ranmaru wrote:
Let's talk about this. Do you think his reasoning to vote CES initially was solid?In post 4221, Thestatusquo wrote:how could you possibly look at davstos ces interactions and think that scum pairing makes sense?-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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I'm not confident in him being scum. I'm trying to be more accurate rather then just lynch incorrectly. That's why, generally I never go for players like Dunn, in general. My interaction with CES is similar to my interaction with yourself as well. I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt. I even gave Marquis the benefit of the doubt. The only concern I had with Dunn was 1) Not voting CES with me and 2) Voting LQ when he town read him. That's it. I see nothing else to vote Dunn for, when I see more for you, davsto, and quick.In post 4260, Thestatusquo wrote:cool. your read on dunn has shifted a lot and part of why you're so likely to be scum in my mind is you've moved in concert the last few days, you said he was scum at some point but never pushed him and quickly unvoted and have never voted him when it matters.
its very similar to your interaction with ces to be honest.
I'd like you to tell me, right now, why you think dunn is not scum.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Gamma will most likely be night killed, and we'll be in this same scenario but with one less vote, and Dunn possibly being lynched at that time.In post 4267, ActionDan wrote:I think Shea has more of a chance than Dunn of being scum. Shadoweh is only confirming that for me via her vote. However I don't feel compelled to vote
Would it really be that bad if we just no lynch?-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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That's the thing. I try to reconsider you, but then I'm only able to bring out a sentence or two of a town read. I was already scumreading you before Gamma voted. I was pushing towards LQ earlier since at that time, there was more support for it, and I'd rather go for likely scum, that have the most support. Gamma saw that your vote on CES looked bad, and I took that opportunity to vote you. It'd make much less sense for me to not push for you at that time. I do give you opportunities to prove me wrong, such as when I tell you I was waning on LQ and was showing you my thought process at that time. I'm humble enough to understand there may be some weaknesses in my play, that I don't see, which is why I give it to you there, but you don't respond to that.In post 4273, Thestatusquo wrote:I don't think you ever reconsidered. your pushes on me follow a pattern. you declare me to be town for some small thing after no one joins with you, then you push someone else for a while, then someone else expresses suspicion of me, and you jump back to pushing me again.
you have declared me town almost exclusively when no one was willing to vote me and declared me scum when someone else said I might be scum.
this is part of what I mean when I say your positions are convenient to you.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Shea: I don't *know* who scum is either and as I have said, I'm not that confident in my reads this game. I will say, I'm slightly wavering due to one of your points... you said that if you were scum, you wouldn't just push [dunn, nsg, marquis] when you did give that Action Dan and Davsto were players that could be scum. Can you go more into why you didn't look more into Dan/Davsto on Day 3? How do you feel about Dan preferring no lynch over Dunn/You? What's your updated read on Shadoweh?-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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CES's push on Marquis was pretty awkward, actually. He also awkwardly mentioned him as a scumread while voting Llama, which A50 noted was weird.In post 4285, Thestatusquo wrote:marquis slot has been very not townie with their posts, but the actions of ces and marquis to each other are not a bus in my mind.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Shea: If you and Davsto are town, then that means Dan and Shadoweh are scum in my eyes. If you are scum, Dan just missed a big opportunity to win the game for town. Also on your new post: I'm already voting you. Dan isn't even voting anyone. I have said I don't want Dunn, but you haven't seen me proposing we no lynch over Dunn. On Day 3 you and I were conversing about Dan and Davsto, and I tried to get you onto Dan, but you voted LQ instead.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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I think Shadoweh and Quick are the scum. I note that Quick doesn't have a genuine push on Dunn (He votes Dan when he states he didn't want to distract from the Dunn lynch). I don't think Quick's vote on Shea was genuine either, just using Creature as an excuse to vote him, and town read him at the same time. I also think Shadoweh's Dunn vote isn't one of passion, rather of one prolonging any possible fight between myself and Shea. Again, I do believe Marquis was a bus, due to how awkward CES was about it, and it would make sense that CES pushes Marquis slightly (when it's at 2 votes) and Quick tries to slow it down.
TOWN [Ranmaru > Gamma > Shea > Davsto > Shadoweh > Quick] SCUM-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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I think this quote shows an interaction between two buddies, talking about another buddy.In post 122, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
Making it harder for scum to just ease into the game seems like a good thing to me. What downside do you see to the Marquiswagon?In post 121, LicketyQuickety wrote:Don't like how fast the Marquis wagon got going, especially when not everyone has even checked in yet (as far as I am aware).-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Gamma: There wasn't much movement from others, like Action Dan, NSG, and Lycanfire. So, I think it was stalled because mostly, people stuck to their guns. The only reason CES picked up steam was because Lycanfire, Davsto, NSG were sitting on him. Then Quick, you, and Shea hopped on afterwards due to NSG's case. Why does it stall and move to CES? I think I just answered that question. Yet, you think it's possible it stalled because she was town? That would mean that town overall noticed she was townie (when this wasn't the case) and rejected CES's push. She got to L-1, so I don't think that's the case. Although I unvoted, because I was wary of Shea's vote.
I think we shouldn't just consider the wagon stall. We should also consider Marquis's individual play, and their interactions with CES and association to CES. I want you to ISO Marquis, compare to Shadoweh. Then I want you to ISO CES, looking for association to see if they seem like scum together.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Davsto: He's looking good due to him being on CES early, and I felt his posts today were quite genuine, trying to game solve. Genuinely, I didn't have a good idea about him otherwise. A50 reads Davsto as town as well.
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Quick: Makes the least sense with Marquis. Is indeed crazy, but I have seen the effort. I have seen some good content from him. I do note that in these last few days, his posts have been more pointed and focused. His content recently is consistent with what he has been saying all game. A50 reads him as town as well.
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Shea: I see his late vote on CES that of scum. It's a bad vote. He said he had CES as 'won't lynch before Dunn NSG Marquis. If he had stuck to that, he'd be off the wagon like myself. Yet, it was more important for his own image to vote on there. Genuinely, I have nothing else. His play Day 1 seemed good, but his play the rest of the phases got lazy. He makes the most sense as scum with Marquis/Shadoweh. Defends him D1, makes a counter wagon to Marquis D3. (After I voted Marq)
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Marquis/Shadodeweh: Seems to be more interested in getting a good position in town, fails and gets wagoned, and lurks out to survive and dodge a lynch. His LQ vote is badly timed after Screen being hammered. He then shades me and never mentions why he changed his read of me from town to scum. He wasn't interested in helping secure a lynch, he was content putting his vote on me, while hailing CES as town. He lurked out through CES's lynch. At first, her content seemed consistent with what Marquis was pushing. She got better though, but my one concern with her slot, is that she wasn't willing to choose between Ran/Shea. I find this more of mindset from scum, wanting to pro-long the fight under the priority of mislynching. "Hey, let's not actually commit to this, let's just go for Dunnstral instead" is what she did. Marquis also stated a lack of motivation for playing, since the very start. There would be no good reason to have a lack of motivation without any pressure on his slot from the beginning. (Although he was rightfully pressured after)
CES was awkwardly bussing Marquis. He had it as his trump card, but let others push over him. Marquis, stayed in the position he was, which helped CES prop himself up further. It would be a win-win case for them in this scenario. Either CES gets lynched, and Marquis might get some leeway, or Marquis gets lynched and CES would get some town cred. Again, I do think CES flipping first was better information wise.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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