Skygazer's Mini Normal Review, April 2023 (Released)
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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sorry for subjecting you to reviewing two of my stupid setups ausuka-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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anyways i like the idea of secret town shenanigans hence the ic neighborizer
and simple vig is one more confirmable town role plus they can get a few shots off without messing with town too badly
vig is obviously swingy so im fine with swapping that for something else? or maybe giving it a lazy modifier?
i wanted to go for something close to mountainlessbc it's easier to balance-
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hello! sorry for subjecting you to my bad setup design-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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going to change "Bah posts are not allowed" to "Dead players may not post. This includes "bah" posts and the twilight phase before post-game."
both will still probably happen regardless, and the only thing i can rlly do is shame ppl who break that rule, but i wanna cover my bases ya know-
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Is neighborizer thread closed until someone else joins or does it just stay open from game start? Doesn't matter too much to me bc the IC part of their role means their notetaking won't spew them as town, but I just wanna know what's "Normal."
Also I made the assumption that the Simple modifier will still work against VTs/Goons that were neighborized, but I should probably double check that while I'm here-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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leave a will, and out themselves selectively to people they trust for some townbloc potential
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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i think i will make the simple vig a simple lazy vig if that's okay with yall
one time me and like one or two scum buddies were taken out by NSG with a one time triple vig shot and it was cool but *unfun* as scum-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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also if i were a simple vig i think i would try to test PR claims and both scum claiming PRs could be a nightmare scenario
so the lazy modifier would also prevent scum from being stomped for simply not knowing the setup-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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Activated IC is what I had in mind here whoops. Will update when I do my next draft. Will go ahead and add lazy onto the vig as well.
Ya I can see this being town-sided. My assumption was that ICs tend to get outted sooner than later and vigs are *generally* more likely to take out town but if both those things don't happen this setup gets rather townsided. I wanted to make the game more than 9 players because with a bad enough vig the game could be over by N2. I also had an old schadd_ game in mind where he had 15 players, 3 masons, a motion detector vs three goons but I suppose motion detector is weaker than a vig...
I wish you could make a modifier apply to only a specific portion of the role... Something like "loyally-bullet-proof activated innocent child neighborizer" would be cool (albeit a mouthful!!) because i could take the "simple" modifier away from the vig and give mafia a PR without it also making that mafia PR bulletproof (from the simple modifier).
So I'm mulling a few different options right now:
1) Taking the simple modifier off and just making the Vigilante a Lazy Vigilante. That way, I can give scum a rolecop and they don't become bullet-proof from the vig's simple modifier. I would also probably want to name the game "This Game Has A Vig" or something (and put it in the set-up section of the ruleset ofc) because that isn't game-breaking info and it would signal to the Activated IC Neighborizer that they shouldn't play scummy enough to get vigged (I've seen some people roll IC and play very scummy as a result).
2) Just make one of the Mafia roles a Bulletproof Mafioso. They're going to be bulletproof anyways with the simple vig so might as well let that be the scum role so scum isn't too overpowered here.
3) Making scum a rolecop (which would be BP due to the simple lazy vig) and giving town a very minor PR to compensate.
4) Successfully petition the NRG to make "loyally-bullet-proof" considered Normal. (/s)
Unless 4 is on the table (which I know it isn't lol) I think 1 is probably the cleanest way to get this more balanced. I feel like simple modifier plus a scum PR weakens the vig too much and could easily lead to town mistakenly clearing a scum PR who fakeclaimed due to the lack of town PRs... stupid setup-spec.
I'll go ahead and make a draft for (1) because that's what I'm happiest with I think. Due to the lack of town PRs I don't think rolecop is too powerful for scum but I could always turn it into something vaguer like a vanilla cop or motion detector. I'm also willing to part with the idea of revealing the existence of the vig publicly if it's too weird, but I really want the IC to play like there's a vig and not like they're un-eliminatable...-
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Spoiler: Setup
Spoiler: Role PMs
Spoiler: First Post
Spoiler: Second Post (Rules)-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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Make that a Mafia Multitasking Rolecop so there's not really positive feedback if town offs the goon
changes made above:
Innocent Child Neighborizer -> Activated Innocent Child Neighborizer
Simple Vigilante -> Lazy Vigilante
2x Goon -> 1x Goon 1x Multitasking Rolecop
Game title changed to "Mini Normal XXXX: THIS GAME HAS A VIG"
Rule added in setup section publicly revealing the existence of a vig
change made below:
change wording of bah post rule to be more encompassing of all death posting-
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Spoiler: Setup
Spoiler: Role PMs
Spoiler: First Post
Spoiler: Second Post (Rules)-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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hiya any thoughts?
also am i right in remembering that there is a precedence for mods to reveal the existence of a role publicly? i think the above setup is fine assuming town knows about the vig, but i'm worried if the vig isn't public then with my luck the IC plays v scummy and gets shot N1-
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(no rush i don't know if that was too soon for a ping)-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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whoopsie
Spoiler: Setup
Spoiler: Role PMs
Spoiler: First Post
Spoiler: Second Post (Rules)-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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fixed!In post 26, Ausuka wrote: I think you still need to take the simple out of the vig PM tho-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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In post 22, DkKoba wrote:
that would not be my first concern, and i think thats just a skill issue on the players part.In post 20, Skygazer wrote: hiya any thoughts?
also am i right in remembering that there is a precedence for mods to reveal the existence of a role publicly? i think the above setup is fine assuming town knows about the vig, but i'm worried if the vig isn't public then with my luck the IC plays v scummy and gets shot N1
it'd be more concerning with the IC being able to gather town players and effectively form a masonry while the IC stays alive and such, although with the distinct lack of power otherwise this is fine.
i think setup is fine as is
2:7 mountainous is considered relatively scumsided yet balanced, and this is 2:9 with 2 effectively IC roles with what could be 2 extra mislims over the 2:7 mountainous. IMO that works out to be fairly balanced and game result relies a lot more on individual player skill than the roles in the game(as its a pretty barebones setup)In post 23, Ausuka wrote: Tbh i think the 15p schadd game you mention would be townsided for today's standards?
I also think if the IC plays scummy it's like... Within the realm of reasonable expectation that they might get vigged
so i shouldn't publicize the fact that there's a vig?In post 24, Ausuka wrote: (and therefore it's not really your fault if that happens?)
I still think the lazy version is just a bit townsided but maybe in that case if the mafia have some kind of power that would balance it?-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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i do kind of want to do that hehe-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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ya true, but i think that also means it's not really a detriment to reveal either?In post 33, DkKoba wrote: i don't see the point of informing anyone about a vig, as soon as an extra shot happens its public knowledge anyways
i do think that there are maybe some people who might see there's a vig and be like "oh i'm not signing up for that"?-
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also if enchant's review is close to done (or even if not) i don't want to steal their thunder necessarily since they inned first-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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in that case i have PTs set up extra early to save myself some work later
mod thread: viewtopic.php?t=90882
dead/spec thread: viewtopic.php?t=90883
implo has access to everything including other threads linked in the mod thread
ausuka and dk have access to the dead/spec thread. if you want full spoilers just ask and i can give mod thread access to you two as well.
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