Mizzytastic's Large Normal Review, February 2022

[implosion]

/in to mod large

currently modding a mini theme but I have the worst as a backup mod for this game

The setup is below, I'll post role pms and rules and stuff once the design thread is up. My rules will be pretty much the same as a previous normal so there shouldn't be much of an issue.

19 Players 14:5

Mafia Informed Neighbour (The traitor is bulletproof, and not a neighbour)
Mafia 4-Shot Follower
Mafia 2-Shot Alien
Mafia Goon
Mafia Bulletproof Traitor

Town Indecisive Doctor Neighbour
Town Ascetic Neighbour
Town Neighbour

Town Mason
Town Mason

Town Traffic Analyst
Town Compulsive Roaming Fruit Vendor, 2-Shot Vigilante (compulsive to either vend fruit or shoot, roaming only on the fruit vendor)
3-Shot Psychologist

6xVT

Balance tweeks

If it's too scum sided I feel like the best solution is making the traitor public information, or making the alien just a jailkeeper or even a doc. Alternatively getting rid of the ascetic.

If it's too townsided the place I'd start is making the psychologist have to act on later nights to up their potential misses, or just giving the vig one shot. Alternatively make the informed neighbour know about a town powerole as well as the traitor, or make one of the mafia power roles a neighbour instead of a town member (I want to keep at least one goon in this set up)

Variants

I was considering a variant where the traitor is a mailman on something like night-3, so they can let the mafia know who they are but on that night the traffic analyst pings on all scum. Another variant I was considering was a 3 player masonry where they start with 1 mason informed that the others will join later and one joining night-2 and one joining night-4 but I figured it was too complicated. If you think this ideas would improve the game I'd love to incorporate them.

My questions

My understanding is mafia flips would be altered to conceal the existence of the traitor but I want to be sure?

What does a psychologist see if they target a person the night they kill? My assumpton is it is based on not having killed at the start of the night

[implosion]

Primary: Isis
Secondary: implosion

[implosion]

14:5 with traitor at a baseline is probably about an average ratio in terms of balance (13:4 and 16:5 are both sort of standard-ish in ratios by the normal scaling rule). The neighborhood as it exists here is probably a little +town because i'd probably guess there's one scum in it. With all that aside, town's power is essentially:

indecisive doc
2-shot vig (fruit vendor is fine to put on this but doesn't make it much stronger since it'll already be confirmed-ish town as the vig)
3-shot psychologist (probably decently likely to get a guilty)
traffic analyst
mason pair

All of these are pretty solid roles. Doc is kind of weak in a large but there is a good amount of potential for a big confirmed town core between masons and the vig and potential traffic analyst negatives (which aren't truly conftown with a traitor but). As a whole I think it might be a bit much town power, I'd maybe nerf the psychologist in particular? I don't think it's egregious, and I think the set of roles makes nice sense together.

[implosion]

Can we run this with mafia informed of psychologist

I don't think you need other changes. 5 scum can influence 14 players pretty well

I'm also good with this.

With reference to my questions from my initial PM, I've read the wiki on the psychologist and now know that even killing the same night as investigates is enough for a negative.

Do you need the alternate version of scum role PMs I'll post on a flip to conceal the existance of the traitor?

I personally think best practices in normal games are to not post role PMs on death at all, to avoid mistakes when there's something like this that needs to be redacted that you forget to redact. That said if you are thinking about these things in advance, relatively unlikely you'll make that mistake. If you are flipping them then sure, probably good to take a look.

[implosion]

You are informed that the traitor is not a member of the Neighborhood, and is Bulletproof.

This should say "your neighborhood", so as to not preclude the existence of other neighborhoods.

I *think* traitors aren't supposed to know what the mafia's roles are. But this is actually ambiguous on the wiki. Should probably be standardized.

You appear to have accidentally copied the informed ability in the traitor's role PM instead of their bulletproof ability.

I still kind of hate that I did this but

technically

the compulsive role should be required to give that randomized list in their confirmation; see https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Compulsive

I don't believe that a mailman's target counts as a role that can communicate for a traffic analyst based on the wiki.

(there's a lot of things here but all pretty small/nitpicky - overall these look good)

[implosion]

Should be good - I've put it in signups.