Datisi's Micro Normal Review, October 2020

[Datisi]

hi!

1x town lazy tracker
1x town rolestopper
5x vt
vs
1x mafia tracker-finder
1x mafia goon

- daytalk enabled
- confirmed 2v7

my idea was to start from the doc/tracker vs goons setup, which is very townsided from the stats i've seen, and work from there.

i wanted to use the new lazy modifier on the tracker. mafia's tracker-finder is a half-informed / half-rolecop, since i wanted scum to be informed about the tracker, but my last two normals had a mafia informed, so...

rolestopper instead of doc because

i think rolestoppers are neat

so that it rewards good play from whichever side performs it (protecting town from getting checked by the finder vs protecting scum from getting tracked)

i'm assuming this will get called scumsided, in which case i'm open to maybe adding another low-power role into town?

[Datisi]

:D

[Datisi]

oh yeah, a question i had about night action resolution: if rolestopper is targeting player X, and the tracker-finder is targeting X, and a tracker tracks the tracker-finder, what result does the tracker get, "visited X" or "no visit"? if i recall correctly, the wiki has two different answers to that...

[Datisi]

maybe to go in the opposite direction. make the rolestopper indecisive/roaming to break up follow-the-tracker, and then add more town power elsewhere?

one of my ideas was town neighborizer, since it can confirm itself once one scum is dead (no multitasking), which would offset the lazy tracker losing its track?

also due to certain recent games, i do not want to see any bulletproofs

[Datisi]

if towns are likely to assume a neighborizer is town, i think i wanna axe it then...

spitballing here:

town lazy tracker
town simple loyal rolestopper
town checker
4 vt
mafia complex tracker-finder
mafia goon

i dislike townsided setups and wouldn't mind hosting something that leans scumsided. though i don't know how to solve the issue of "town lazy tracker + rolestopper aren't enough for town, but adding a 3rd town power role swings it back to town too much due to nature of there being too many PR claims"...

[Datisi]

Loyal Rolestopper + Checker is interesting as combos go. Was that intentional? One issue is that it can produce a false inno on the Tracker-Finder (this is very unlikely to happen), but town are at least aware that it's a possibility.

it wasn't intentional, no... i'm thinking whether it's a problem, but i think it's unlikely it ends up clearing a vt. though i'm not sure i see how that combo produces a false inno on the tracker-finder? the rolestopper is both simple and loyal, it won't work on the mafia tracker-finder, and the checker that checks him will see a passed check, correct?

Giving scum global Multitasking will have something of a balance impact here; without it, they can't fakeclaim any noticeable amount of town power and are pretty much locked into VT, with it they have more scope to be tricky (bluffing the existence of a powerful scum role). That said, VT is a pretty decent fakeclaim in this setup anyway, so the balance impact won't be all that large.

i think i'd want to give scum multitasking, actually. i'd like for scum to have room for smart fakeclaims, and i want to give scum a fighting chance if the goon flips day one.

[Datisi]

though i worry if that neapolitan-combo becomes unavoidable if all three power roles survive to day two and massclaim - the rolestopper and the checker targeting the same person, the tracker tracking the rolestopper. i don't want the setup to be "you failed to kill a PR on night one, you shall lose now". is that a likely scenario?

[Datisi]

actually, that leads me to another question. if the simple loyal rolestopper targets the checker/scum, and the tracker tracks the rolestopper, does the tracker get "did not visit anyone"?

if the answer's yes, that's why i'm thinking of the neapolitan-combo as being unavoidable, as the tracker can also check whether the rolestopper's action succeeded or not. granted, it's not *conclusive*, since the rolestopper themselves might've gotten blocked, but... i wanna avoid as many "bastard" scenarios as possible.

[Datisi]

"It causes the role to behave as though it were roleblocked unless the target has the same alignment as the user."
"It causes the role to behave as though it were roleblocked when targeting a player who is not vanilla."

if roleblocked actions aren't trackable, then these shouldn't be either

[Datisi]

i've been thinking a bit more about the setup in 16, and while i do like it, i'm kinda thinking scum is screwed come massclaim if they don't kill a PR? both the tracker and rolestopper are heavily gated, and i have a fear the town will just townbin the checker on the basis of "there's not enough town power otherwise"

an idea came to me to make the goon into mafia informed, and let them know there's 4 vts in the game. i think in theory it lets them know that the town power is scattered and that they'll maybe have to fakeclaim a PR to get some of them executed?

[Datisi]

i think the micro queue is moving, so... bump?

Spoiler: role PMs

vanilla townie

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Abilities:

• You have no special abilities, but you have your voice and your vote.

You win when there are no longer any threats to Town and at least one Town player is alive.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

town lazy tracker

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Town Lazy Tracker

.

Abilities:

• Each Night phase, if at least two anti-town players were alive at the start of the Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn who, if anyone, that player targeted that Night. (You will get "no result" if this action is blocked.)

You win when there are no longer any threats to Town and at least one Town player is alive.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

[Game PMs: "

Playername

targeted

Target

(and

Target

) last Night.", "

Playername

did not target anyone last Night.", "Your action failed, and you did not receive a result."]

town simple loyal rolestopper

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Town Simple Loyal Rolestopper

.

Abilities:

• Rolestopper:
  Each Night phase, you may target one player in the game. Assuming no interference with your action, all other Night actions targeting that player will fail.
  
• Simple:
  Your Night action will fail if used on a player who is
  not
  vanilla.
  
• Loyal:
  Your Night action will fail if used on a player that does not share your alignment.

You win when there are no longer any threats to Town and at least one Town player is alive.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

town checker

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Town Checker

.

Abilities:

• Each Night phase, you may target a player. You will be informed that your action succeeded (but your action has no other effect).

You win when there are no longer any threats to Town and at least one Town player is alive.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

[Game PMs: "Your action succeeded, and you checked

Playername

.", "Your action failed, and you did not receive a result."]

mafia complex tracker-finder

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Mafia Complex Tracker-Finder

.

Factional:

• You are a member of the Mafia, along with
  Playername
  , who is a
  Mafia Goon

  .
  
  
• Once every Night, a living member of the Mafia may submit a factional kill action.
  
• You may talk with your living teammates in the Mafia Private Topic, located here. You may talk there at any time as long as you are alive.

Abilities:

• Tracker-Finder:
  Each Night phase, you may target one player in the game. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether that player is a Tracker.
  
  Complex:
  Your Night action will fail if used on a player who is vanilla.

You win when there are no longer any threats to the Mafia (or nothing can prevent this from occuring) and at least one Mafia player is alive.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name or by posting in your PT.

[Game PMs: "

Playername

is a Tracker.", "

Playername

is not a Tracker.", "Your action failed, and you did not receive a result."]

mafia goon

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Mafia Goon

.

Factional:

• You are a member of the Mafia, along with
  Playername
  , who is a
  Mafia Complex Tracker-Finder
  .
  
• Once every Night, a living member of the Mafia may submit a factional kill action.
  
• You may talk with your living teammates in the Mafia Private Topic, located here. You may talk there at any time as long as you are alive.

Abilities:

• You have no special abilities, but you have your voice and your vote.

You win when there are no longer any threats to the Mafia (or nothing can prevent this from occuring) and at least one Mafia player is alive.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name or by posting in your PT.

Spoiler: ruleset

Rules

Shamelessly stolen

Inspired by Plotinus's ruleset.

important bit

• Days: 8 days, Nights: 48 hours.
  
• Majority executes.
  
• 36 hours before prod, 24 hours before replacement.
  
• Bah posts allowed. (limit: 1, free of game related content)
  
• Don’t be a dick.

1. Follow all site rules.
   
   
2. Mod colour
   – My mod colour is
   teal
   . You can use it if you want, just don't attempt to impersonate me.
   
3. Behaviour
   - Don’t be a dick. This is a heated game but toxicity will not be tolerated. Attack the play not the player. If your fellow players tell you to stop, you must stop. If you do not stop, I will tell you to stop. If you still do not stop, you will be force-replaced. Asking people to stop voting you or to stop scumhunting you entirely doesn't count for this rule and you may find yourself executed if you try it.
   
4. Don't talk about ongoing games
   - You may not talk to each other about this game outside of threads I have created for this purpose. You may not talk about other ongoing games in this thread.
   
5. Provable randomness
   - is against the rules. Saying that you rolled a dice is fine, using dice tags or random.org is not.
   
6. Cryptography
   - is forbidden. Breadcrumbing is okay.
   
7. Confirmation
   - You have about 48 hours to confirm your role and your alignment by PM. Game will start sooner if everyone confirms. Posting in a private topic counts as confirmation.
   
8. Days
   - Days last up to 8 real-life days. Extensions may or may not be granted if there are replacements, or if the circumstances call for it (for example, if the site was experiencing issues).
   
9. Activity
   - You must post at least once every 36 hours or I will Prod you. You then have 24 hours to post in the game thread or I will replace you. If you come back before I find a replacement, you can stay. Players can request me to prod somebody early. This will only count as an official prod if you don't post before you would have been due for a prod. If you haven't posted in the 24 hours before the thread is locked for night, you must reply to the night start PM or you will be replaced during the night.
   
10. Vacation/Limited Access
    - If you need to be absent for longer than this, you should declare
    V/LA
    in bold in the thread like this: [
    b]

    @Mod: I will be v/la until Thursday

    [
    /b]. While you are V/LA, you will be nudged once every 60 hours. Two nudges equals one prod. If you have not posted game advancing content in 5 days, regardless of V/LA status, you will be replaced.
    
11. Prodging
    - A naked "prod dodge" does not reset the prod timer. To avoid being prodded/replaced for inactivity, include some game advancing content in your prodges, such as "got prodded; xxxx is still scum."
    
12. Quoting
    - You may not quote (or copy paste) any private information into the thread, including your role PM and any mod communication.
    
13. Voting
    - Votes must be in bold in the format VOTE: Datisi or
    Vote: Datisi
    . Strong preference for using vote tags instead of bold tags. Unvotes are nice but not required. If I think it’s a vote, it’s a vote, no tricks. Type [
    v]Datisi[
    /v] to vote and [
    uv]Datisi[
    /uv] to unvote.
    
14. Execution
    - Days end early when a simple majority of players (50% of living players + 1 rounded down) vote to execute somebody. If a majority is not reached at deadline or if a majority of the players vote for no execution, the day will end without an execution. At evens, 50% is sufficient for no execution. It takes (100% of living players + 1) votes to execute the Moderator.
    
15. Twilight
    - Begins when a majority is reached and lasts until I lock the thread. You're still alive until I flip you so you can talk in any game threads you have access to until then, but no votes or unvotes will be counted.
    
16. Night
    - Night lasts at least 48 hours. The night phase can be shortened if every living player -- even those with no night actions -- agrees to it and if I'm not busy.
    
17. Action submissions
    - You may submit actions via PM (if town) or PT (if scum). If the actions are not submitted by the deadline then you do nothing. You can change your mind as many times as you like before the deadline.
    
18. Reminders
    - If I don't hear from you about your night actions, I'll PM you 24 hours before the deadline. This doesn't count as a prod. If I still don't hear from you, you will take no action.
    
19. Notes PT
    - Let me know if you want a private thread to store your thoughts and feedback for the other players. You may draft posts in your notes PT if the posts are clearly meant to be posted in the main thread. You may not use the notes PT to demonstrate that you've had a town mindset in private all along; just put your town mindset in public to begin with and keep your notes to yourself.
    
20. Using scripts
    - Using scripts to alter or hide another player's posts is not allowed.
    
21. Play to win
    - this particular game, not some future one, and keep it fun!
    
22. Setup Specific:
    • This is a Normal game.
      
    • Any and all Private Topics will be open at all times.
      
    • The Mafia have Multitasking enabled by default.
      
    • The game is confirmed to be 7 Town vs 2 Mafia.

Sample Vanilla Townie role PM:

Spoiler:

vanilla townie

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Abilities:

• You have no special abilities, but you have your voice and your vote.

You win when there are no longer any threats to Town and at least one Town player is alive.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

[Datisi]

hmm, i didn't think about the complex modifier and the factional kill, glad it doesn't affect it. i edited the tracker-finder and the checker role PMs. also i added that rule to my ruleset. considering how annoyed i get when players replace out in-thread or threaten to reaplce out, i wonder why i hadn't added it earlier.

Spoiler: fixed role PMs

vanilla townie

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Abilities:

• You have no special abilities, but you have your voice and your vote.

You win when there are no longer any threats to Town and at least one Town player is alive.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

town lazy tracker

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Town Lazy Tracker

.

Abilities:

• Each Night phase, if at least two anti-town players were alive at the start of the Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn who, if anyone, that player targeted that Night. (You will get "no result" if this action is blocked.)

You win when there are no longer any threats to Town and at least one Town player is alive.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

[Game PMs: "

Playername

targeted

Target

(and

Target

) last Night.", "

Playername

did not target anyone last Night.", "Your action failed, and you did not receive a result."]

town simple loyal rolestopper

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Town Simple Loyal Rolestopper

.

Abilities:

• Rolestopper:
  Each Night phase, you may target one player in the game. Assuming no interference with your action, all other Night actions targeting that player will fail.
  
• Simple:
  Your Night action will fail if used on a player who is
  not
  vanilla.
  
• Loyal:
  Your Night action will fail if used on a player that does not share your alignment.

You win when there are no longer any threats to Town and at least one Town player is alive.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

town checker

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Town Checker

.

Abilities:

• Each Night phase, you may target a player. You will be informed whether or not your action succeeded. Your action has no other effect.

You win when there are no longer any threats to Town and at least one Town player is alive.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

[Game PMs: "Your action succeeded, and you checked

Playername

.", "Your action failed, and you did not receive a result."]

mafia complex tracker-finder

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Mafia Complex Tracker-Finder

.

Factional:

• You are a member of the Mafia, along with
  Playername
  , who is a
  Mafia Goon

  .
  
  
• Once every Night, a living member of the Mafia may submit a factional kill action.
  
• You may talk with your living teammates in the Mafia Private Topic, located here. You may talk there at any time as long as you are alive.

Abilities:

• Tracker-Finder:
  Each Night phase, you may target one player in the game. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether that player is a Tracker.
  
  Complex:
  This Night action will fail if used on a player who is vanilla.

You win when there are no longer any threats to the Mafia (or nothing can prevent this from occuring) and at least one Mafia player is alive.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name or by posting in your PT.

[Game PMs: "

Playername

is a Tracker.", "

Playername

is not a Tracker.", "Your action failed, and you did not receive a result."]

mafia goon

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Mafia Goon

.

Factional:

• You are a member of the Mafia, along with
  Playername
  , who is a
  Mafia Complex Tracker-Finder
  .
  
• Once every Night, a living member of the Mafia may submit a factional kill action.
  
• You may talk with your living teammates in the Mafia Private Topic, located here. You may talk there at any time as long as you are alive.

Abilities:

• You have no special abilities, but you have your voice and your vote.

You win when there are no longer any threats to the Mafia (or nothing can prevent this from occuring) and at least one Mafia player is alive.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name or by posting in your PT.

Spoiler: fixed ruleset

Rules

Shamelessly stolen

Inspired by Plotinus's ruleset.

important bit

• Days: 8 days, Nights: 48 hours.
  
• Majority executes.
  
• 36 hours before prod, 24 hours before replacement.
  
• If you want to replace out, PM me.
  
• Bah posts allowed. (limit: 1, free of game related content)
  
• Don’t be a dick.

1. Follow all site rules.
   
   
2. Mod colour
   – My mod colour is
   teal
   . You can use it if you want, just don't attempt to impersonate me.
   
3. Behaviour
   - Don’t be a dick. This is a heated game but toxicity will not be tolerated. Attack the play not the player. If your fellow players tell you to stop, you must stop. If you do not stop, I will tell you to stop. If you still do not stop, you will be force-replaced. Asking people to stop voting you or to stop scumhunting you entirely doesn't count for this rule and you may find yourself executed if you try it.
   
4. Don't talk about ongoing games
   - You may not talk to each other about this game outside of threads I have created for this purpose. You may not talk about other ongoing games in this thread.
   
5. Provable randomness
   - is against the rules. Saying that you rolled a dice is fine, using dice tags or random.org is not.
   
6. Cryptography
   - is forbidden. Breadcrumbing is okay.
   
7. Replacements
   - If you wish to replace out, PM me, do not request replacement in thread. Do not discuss your reasons for replacing out publically. Do not threaten to replace out or tell other players to replace out. If you have any concerns that a player should be replaced, PM me.
   
8. Confirmation
   - You have about 48 hours to confirm your role and your alignment by PM. Game will start sooner if everyone confirms. Posting in a private topic counts as confirmation.
   
9. Days
   - Days last up to 8 real-life days. Extensions may or may not be granted if there are replacements, or if the circumstances call for it (for example, if the site was experiencing issues).
   
10. Activity
    - You must post at least once every 36 hours or I will Prod you. You then have 24 hours to post in the game thread or I will replace you. If you come back before I find a replacement, you can stay. Players can request me to prod somebody early. This will only count as an official prod if you don't post before you would have been due for a prod. If you haven't posted in the 24 hours before the thread is locked for night, you must reply to the night start PM or you will be replaced during the night.
    
11. Vacation/Limited Access
    - If you need to be absent for longer than this, you should declare
    V/LA
    in bold in the thread like this: [
    b]

    @Mod: I will be v/la until Thursday

    [
    /b]. While you are V/LA, you will be nudged once every 60 hours. Two nudges equals one prod. If you have not posted game advancing content in 5 days, regardless of V/LA status, you will be replaced.
    
12. Prodging
    - A naked "prod dodge" does not reset the prod timer. To avoid being prodded/replaced for inactivity, include some game advancing content in your prodges, such as "got prodded; xxxx is still scum."
    
13. Quoting
    - You may not quote (or copy paste) any private information into the thread, including your role PM and any mod communication.
    
14. Voting
    - Votes must be in bold in the format VOTE: Datisi or
    Vote: Datisi
    . Strong preference for using vote tags instead of bold tags. Unvotes are nice but not required. If I think it’s a vote, it’s a vote, no tricks. Type [
    v]Datisi[
    /v] to vote and [
    uv]Datisi[
    /uv] to unvote.
    
15. Execution
    - Days end early when a simple majority of players (50% of living players + 1 rounded down) vote to execute somebody. If a majority is not reached at deadline or if a majority of the players vote for no execution, the day will end without an execution. At evens, 50% is sufficient for no execution. It takes (100% of living players + 1) votes to execute the Moderator.
    
16. Twilight
    - Begins when a majority is reached and lasts until I lock the thread. You're still alive until I flip you so you can talk in any game threads you have access to until then, but no votes or unvotes will be counted.
    
17. Night
    - Night lasts at least 48 hours. The night phase can be shortened if every living player -- even those with no night actions -- agrees to it and if I'm not busy.
    
18. Action submissions
    - You may submit actions via PM (if town) or PT (if scum). If the actions are not submitted by the deadline then you do nothing. You can change your mind as many times as you like before the deadline.
    
19. Reminders
    - If I don't hear from you about your night actions, I'll PM you 24 hours before the deadline. This doesn't count as a prod. If I still don't hear from you, you will take no action.
    
20. Notes PT
    - Let me know if you want a private thread to store your thoughts and feedback for the other players. You may draft posts in your notes PT if the posts are clearly meant to be posted in the main thread. You may not use the notes PT to demonstrate that you've had a town mindset in private all along; just put your town mindset in public to begin with and keep your notes to yourself.
    
21. Using scripts
    - Using scripts to alter or hide another player's posts is not allowed.
    
22. Play to win
    - this particular game, not some future one, and keep it fun!
    
23. Setup Specific:
    • This is a Normal game.
      
    • Any and all Private Topics will be open at all times.
      
    • The Mafia have Multitasking enabled by default.
      
    • The game is confirmed to be 7 Town vs 2 Mafia.

Sample Vanilla Townie role PM:

Spoiler:

vanilla townie

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Abilities:

• You have no special abilities, but you have your voice and your vote.

You win when there are no longer any threats to Town and at least one Town player is alive.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.