Morning Tweet's Normal Review, August 2020

[Morning Tweet]

Hi!! I came up with this and then realized the many nightmares the setup has approximately half an hour later

For instance, I believe I under gauged the amount of power town is supposed to have. I believe the rule was something like "4 decent PRs", but I somehow managed to give every PR drawback

The Weak FN can accidentally kill himself (although it lets him play like an investigative)
The gunsmith has one false innocent (Although I made him aware of it)
The doctor might be in trouble because the gunsmith knows theres a mafia doctor (This I did not realize when I made it)
and 2-shot commuter isnt a very good role, will probably have to swap that one out

>.<

I generally like setups where PRs can be misused if they do not play well (FN has chance to misplay, Gunsmith has to use his judgment since he can only be mostly sure of his innos, commuter has to actively use his ability), but I might have hurt town a bit too much here

[Morning Tweet]

Ah, if its terribly scumsided, I could see changing the mafia doctor to a goon, and removing the gunsmiths information.

[Morning Tweet]

I'm getting the feeling the setup is town sided because, while I think he's pretty powerful, the weak friendly neighbour has the potential to throw away a ton of towns power if he isnt careful.

**scumsided

i like a lot of your thinking in your design logic (and i appreciate you including that a lot – i always end up asking people for it anyways because it helps me know what direction to try to take the setup in). if you want a gunsmith / maf doc combo, i think having the gunsmith be informed of this is a pretty good idea. weak friendly neighbor is a cool role, although personally i consider the "weak" part as less of a downside than you seem to – you say that if one scum is doing well enough that they essentially disable the friendly neighbor, but i think that in a lot of scenarios (at least with a halfway competent FN), that really just means a guilty on that scum member. again, kind of depends on whether a newbie or more experienced player is the WFN, but still

thank you! I'm glad having the gunsmith aware there's an incorrect result was a decent idea, I don't like the idea of fake results much but I also want the investigative to have to think about his results a little

Ah, I forgot that if the FN is careful they'll make sure town knows who they visited. so that's good then!

i think the setup is at its weakest with the strongman and the 2-shot commuter, although it being the relative weakest (i.e. compared to the rest of the setup) doesn't mean that it's bad

I'm unsure how to prevent the investigatives from being invincible after they claim while the doctor is alive. There are already lot of nerfs to town power as it is, so maybe I could give scum something weaker to shut down follow the gunsmith. Would an X-shot roleblocker of some kind be more forgiving for town?

honestly i think that it's probably passable as is? of course, the evil NRG bureaucrat in me wants to tweak it around and not just pass it as is, but i honestly don't think it's really necessary. of course, if you'd like to talk it through a bit more and if you feel like you might want to change your mind on it i'm open to hearing different ideas, but i

think

that it's passable as is. would like to hear mastina's opinion as well.

I'm down to tweak it if you like! Anything to make it more fair

I'm mostly attached to the weak fn, the gunsmith/mafi doctor combo, and having a town protective.

I forget if the strongman/commuter interaction was intentional-- i was tired. i like the idea of commuter more than bulletproof since it's an active ability, and more than PGO cause that'd throw the swing out of control

Oh, also I have a question: If the Weak Friendly Neighbour is killed by visiting a mafia-aligned player, can the doctor save them, or is the death unpreventable?

[Morning Tweet]

realized that i didn't talk too much about the actual balance in that post except to say that it's passable as is. i do think that it's probably on the scumsided end of things given how much the mafia doctor nerfs the power of the gunsmith as well as the swing potential with the WFN – a good or even just halfway decent scumteam could sweep an unlucky town, so if it's unbalanced it's probably in that direction

another thing i just realized is that this setup has the rare honor of having a potential interaction between a strongman and a commuter (which the commuter wins). not really a problem, although i imagine that some newer players or people less familiar with normal rules might get confused / annoyed at that, if it does end up happening.

also a quick check over your role PMs and rules and they seemed fine

sweet!

It seems like I could bump the strongman to something weaker (like a JK or alien, maybe 2-3 shot so they can prevent follow the gunsmith but cannot spam roleblocks without a known target) or I could buff the commuter (Not sure what to. I don't want a killer or an investigative, and I already have a protective)

[Morning Tweet]

If the setup were to be tweaked, the tweaks would need to be

very very minor

, minuscule ones, because the setup is beautiful, the setup is elegant, the setup is nice, is wonderful, and not atrociously balanced. But I am currently too tired to make any suggestions on any tweak of this nature, if it's even desired. (Soonest I'd be able to do this, if you want it, is Sunday.)

Lol sweet ty

Because as I said above, it's passable in my opinion as-is. Slightly scumsided, scumsided enough to

almost

be outside the acceptable margin of balance, but to just be inside the region. So I'd mostly defer the judgement to the setup designer/mod, if they're okay with the running the setup knowing that it's slightly scumsided. If they are, if you are, then it's fine, but if you're not quite happy with it as it is, then yeah, needs some form of very minor tweak/adjustment.

I would like to tweak it a bit to make it more balanced, because I don't want scum to win and have the players be like "ya but it was scumsided tho" and have that detract from the scumteam's victory.

Sunday or whenever you're free is cool!

[Morning Tweet]

without any further direction I think I'd have the Weak person not die, since I'm wording the doctors role PM as: "protect them from one kill attempt that night" so I would think that counts.

That being said!! I forgot rolestopper is a thing. I do not want the gunsmith to mistakenly suspect the town doctor, that would just be really annoying for them.

Town Weak Friendly Neighbour
Town Informed Gunsmith (“There is one Mafia Doctor”)
Town [Informed] Rolestopper ["There is one Mafia Strongman"] --information part only necessary if town is still underpowered with this setup
Town Two-shot Commuter
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Mafia Doctor
Mafia One-shot Strongman
Mafia Goon

I suppose the weak friendly neighbour can still get faked results though, just from their target being rolestopped instead of being healed. Maybe town isn't super better off but it's a start

I like your idea of informing the rolestopper of their counter, just like I did with the gunsmith. It's very symmetrical. Mafia have direct counters to the PRs, but the PRs aren't going to be blindsided by the fake inno and 1-time failure to protect. And mafia do not know they know of course

Do you think the setup is more balanced with or without the rolestopper knowing about the strongman's existence?

Spoiler: ROLE PMS

TOWN ROLESTOPPER

Welcome, Player! You are a

Town Rolestopper

.

Each night, you may target a player. This night, all abilities targetting that player will be blocked.

You are aligned with the

Town

. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

TOWN INFORMED ROLESTOPPER

Welcome, Player! You are a

Town Informed Rolestopper

.

Each night, you may target a player. This night, all abilities targetting that player will be blocked.

You know additional information pertaining to the setup: There is one Mafia Strongman present in the game.

You are aligned with the

Town

. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

[Morning Tweet]

hia

I am good with running the original setup with the doctor swapped out for rolestopper, if you think that's reasonably balanced (´･ω･`)

[Morning Tweet]

Sounds good, thanks!

[Morning Tweet]

Here's the post from my mod PT. All the role PMs should be the same except rolestopper which is added in for doctor now

Spoiler: The Setup

13p setup

Town Weak Friendly Neighbour
Town Informed Gunsmith (“There is one Mafia Doctor”)
Town Rolestopper
Town Two-shot Commuter
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Mafia Doctor
Mafia One-shot Strongman
Mafia Goon

Spoiler: Unnamed Role PMs

VANILLA TOWNIE

Welcome, Player! You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Aside from your voice and your vote, you possess no special abilities of your own.

You are aligned with the

Town

. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]

TOWN WEAK FRIENDLY NEIGHBOUR

Welcome, Player! You are a

Town Weak Friendly Neighbour

.

Each night, you may target a player. At the end of the night, they will be informed that you are aligned with the town. Furthermore, if you target a non-town-aligned player with this ability, you will die.

You are aligned with the

Town

. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]

TOWN INFORMED GUNSMITH

Welcome, Player! You are a

Town Informed Gunsmith

.

Each night, you may target a player to learn whether or not they have a gun in their possession.

(All mafia roles have guns except Doctor and Traitor. Additionally, the following town roles have guns: Cop, Vigilante, Gunsmith, Role Cop, Vanilla Cop, Vengeful, Detective, Neapolitan, Backup of any role with a gun, and Jack-of-All-Trades where any component role has a gun.)

You know additional information pertaining to the setup: There is one Mafia Doctor present in the game.

You are aligned with the

Town

. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]

TOWN ROLESTOPPER

Welcome, Player! You are a

Town Rolestopper

.

Each night, you may target a player. All abilities targetting that player on this night will be blocked.

You are aligned with the

Town

. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]

TOWN TWO-SHOT COMMUTER

Welcome, Player! You are a

Town Two-shot Commuter

.

Twice during the game at night, you may choose to commute, causing all actions targeting you to fail.

You are aligned with the

Town

. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]

MAFIA GOON

Welcome, Player! You are a

Mafia Goon

.

Your partners are Player1,

Mafia Doctor

, and Player2,

Mafia One-shot Strongman

. You may speak with them privately and at any time here.

You and your partners share a factional kill. At night, you may designate a mafia player to perform the kill on a chosen player. You may not have a mafia member perform a kill and use another action at the same time.

You are aligned with the

Mafia

. You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]

MAFIA DOCTOR

Welcome, Player! You are a

Mafia Doctor

.

Your partners are Player1,

Mafia Goon

, and Player2,

Mafia One-shot Strongman

. You may speak with them privately and at any time here.

Each night, you may target a player to protect them from one kill attempt that night.

You and your partners share a factional kill. At night, you may designate a mafia player to perform the kill on a chosen player. You may not have a mafia member perform a kill and use another action at the same time.

You are aligned with the

Mafia

. You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]

MAFIA ONE-SHOT STRONGMAN

Welcome, Player! You are a

Mafia One-shot Strongman

.

Your partners are Player1,

Mafia Goon

, and Player2,

Mafia Doctor

. You may speak with them privately and at any time here.

Once per game while performing a kill, you may designate your kill as a Strongman kill, preventing it from being blocked by any means.

You and your partners share a factional kill. At night, you may designate a mafia player to perform the kill on a chosen player. You may not have a mafia member perform a kill and use another action at the same time.

You are aligned with the

Mafia

. You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]

[Morning Tweet]

No worries. Thanks!!