[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
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Post Post #7867 (isolation #0) » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:06 pm

Post by Aneninen »

Hi everyone,

I hope this is the right thread to present you my setup idea:

MATRIX–12


It's based upon the current Newbie Setup, Matrix–6. However, this one is a bigger version with more possible Setups, more available PRs and the total number of players is 13, just like in many Open and Normal games.

Matrix-12 is a possible "next step" after Newbie games: its main goal is to introduce new PRs to the newer players, just as well the possibility of being in a Multiball-game.
(If there has been a similar setup posted before, really sorry!)

How does Matrix-12 work?


(1) Each Setup contains 7 Vanilla Townies and 1 Mafia Goon.

(2) The remaining 5 roles are determined by the following matrix:

123456
Mafia JOAT
Town Watcher
Mafia Roleblocker
Town Bodyguard
Town Jailkeeper
7
Town Neighbourizer
Town 1-shot Commuter
Town JOAT
Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof
Mafia Rolecop
8
Town Doctor
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Encryptor
Town Cop
Town Fruit Vendor
9
Werewolf Goon / SK (!)
Town Odd-Night Doctor
Town 1-shot Tracker
Town 1-shot Vigilante
Mafia Strongman
10
Werewolf JOAT / SK (!)
Werewolf Goon / SK (!)
Town 2-shot Vigilante
Mafia JOAT
Town Even-Night Doctor
11
12


Just like in Matrix–6, the Mod secretly determines the Setup is to be played, but in Matrix–12 the Matrix can be read
diagonally too
. Therefore, the total amount of the possible Setups is 12 (not 10).

Spoiler: These are the possible PRs; the Vanilla Townies and the Mafia goon are included
(1) Werewolf Goon, Werewolf JOAT, Mafia Goon, Mafia JOAT, Town Neighbourizer, Town Doctor, 7 Vanilla Townies (9:2:2)
(2) Mafia Goon, Mafia Roleblocker, Serial Killer, Town Watcher, Town 1-shot Commuter, Town Odd-Night Doctor, 7 Vanilla Townies (10:2:1)
(3) Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Encryptor, Mafia Goon, Town JOAT, Town 1-shot Tracker, Town 2-shot Vigilante, 7 Vanilla Townies (10:3)
(4) Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof, Mafia Joat, Mafia Goon, Town Bodyguard, Town Cop, Town 1-shot Vigilante, 7 Vanilla Townies (10:3)
(5) Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Strongman, Mafia Goon, Town Jailkeeper, Town Fruit Vendor, Town Even-Night Doctor, 7 Vanilla Townies (10:3)
(6) Mafia Encryptor, Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof, Mafia goon, Serial Killer, Town Odd-Night Doctor, Town Jailkeeper, 7 Vanilla Townies (9:3:1)
(7) Mafia JOAT, Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Watcher, Town Bodyguard, Town Jailkeeper, 7 Vanilla townies (10:3)
(8) Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof, Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Neighbourizer, Town 1-shot Commuter, Town JOAT, 7 Vanilla Townies (10:3)
(9) Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Encryptor, Mafia Goon, Town Doctor, Town Cop, Town Fruit Vendor, 7 Vanilla Townies (10:3)
(10) Mafia Strongman, Mafia Goon, Serial Killer, Town Odd-Night Doctor, Town 1-shot Tracker, Town 1-shot Vigilante, 7 Vanilla Townies (10:2:1)
(11) Werewolf JOAT, Werewolf Goon, Mafia JOAT, Mafia Goon, Town 2-shot Vigilante, Town Even-Night Doctor (9:2:2)
(12) Mafia JOAT, Mafia Encryptor, Mafia Goon, Town 1-shot Commuter, Town 1-shot Vigilante, Town Even-Night Doctor (10:3)

Seven of the Setups are 10:3, two of them are 9:2:2, two of them are 10:2:1 and one Setup is 9:3:1.


(3) If the Setup contained only one Werewolf slot, it gets replaced by a Serial Killer. (These Setups: (2), (6) and (10) )
The Serial Killer is to choose their PR pregame:
either
Strongman AND Ninja
or
1-shot Bulletproof.

(4) If the Setup is 10:2:1 – (2) and (10) –, the Mafia faction has Daytalk. In all other cases there's no automatic Daytalk unless a Mafia Encryptor is present – (3), (6), (9), (12) – and he/she's alive.

(5) The Town JOAT has the following abilities: Doctor, Tracker, Vigilante – all of them are 1-shot. The JOAT can use only one of their abilities at Night.

(6) The Mafia/Werewolf JOAT has the following abilities: Ninja, Strongman, Roleblocker – all of them are 1-shot. The JOAT can use only one of their abilities at Night.

(7) If an X-shot ability is disabled during the night, the shot is lost for good. The Bulletproof ability blocks the first incoming shot automatically.

(8) Natural action resolution applies. A Roleblocker
can
block Nightkills but can't block passive abilities. No scum can perform a kill and an active ability at the same Night.

________

I'm open to any suggestion and modification.
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Post Post #7871 (isolation #1) » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:50 am

Post by Aneninen »

In post 7869, JasonWazza wrote:Which is why it would be the next step.


Exactly. I'm thinking about adding this:

(9) Anyone finished at least one Newbie can signup for a Matrix-12 game.

In post 7870, TierShift wrote:I think the idea is pretty great, I'm just not sure about the balance. All of town's strong PR's (jk, cop) are strictly countered by a roleblocker (rb, joat). I think scum can just claim to be VT's in these setups and not worry too much about confirmed townies; they can just kill them off. I suggest adding more goons in the matrix.
Also, setup 12 is reheheheaaaly underpowered for town.

You're right.
I won't even pretend that I'm able to balance a Setup like this alone and on my first try.

How about reducing the
variability
of Scum-PRs? In that case they can't be surer than town about the Game Setup as it starts.
The JOATs are in good positions, the Roleblocker in position 37 could cause problems. I'm also considering removing the Encryptor.
Also, (12) is one of the three Setups which concerns me (the other one is (6), for a 9:3:1 there should be a stronger town and (3) seems to be overpowered for the scums).
So, any ideas are welcomed (and I'm constantly thinking about the possible changes).
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Post Post #7873 (isolation #2) » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:43 am

Post by Aneninen »

SB, I've read your remarks and I'm thinking about them as well.

Topic-mod or whoever: am I allowed to open a new Thread for Matrix–12?
– I'm afraid that if we discuss about it amongst all of the other Setup ideas, that would "kill the thread" for everything else.

Back to SB and TierShift. Right now I think I'll create a 6×6 Matrix instead of an 5×5. If it would be 6×6, there would be 6
possible
PR slot for each Setup and by using VT and Goon cells balancing would be a much easier job. (In the most PR-rich Setup there would be still 6 VT and 1 goon, which means more than 50% of non-PR slots but it could be more.)
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Post Post #7879 (isolation #3) » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:06 am

Post by Aneninen »

It's very risky for the Mafia Babysitter to protect the Goon. By protecting a townie the Babysitter might die due to a stray and lucky Vig-shot so, maybe it's best not to use the ability at all.
Also, due to its small size and the two kills it may be very swingy.


Meanwhile, I'm working on the next version of my Setup.
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Post Post #7882 (isolation #4) » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:40 am

Post by Aneninen »

It's me again.

Thanks for your notes and ideas. Having reconsidered them I've reconstructed my idea.
So, here comes...

MATRIX–14


It's based upon the current Newbie Setup, Matrix–6. However, this one is a bigger version with more possible Setups, more available PRs and the total number of players is 13, just like in many Open and Normal games.

Matrix–14 is a possible "next step" after Newbie games: its main goal is to introduce new PRs to the newer players, just as well the possibility of being in a Multiball-game.

How does Matrix–14 work?


(1) Each Setup contains 6 Vanilla Townies and 1 Mafia Goon.

(2) The remaining 6 roles are determined by a matrix.

Spoiler: Check out this spoiler for the Skeleton of the setup.
1234567
Mafia OOOO
Town X
Town XXX
Mafia O
Town X
Town XX
8
Town XXXX
Town XX
Town X
Town X
Mafia OOO
Mafia OO
9
Town X
Town XX
Mafia OOO
Town XXXX
Town X
Mafia OO
10
Town XX
Mafia OOOO
Mafia X
Town X
Town XXXX
Town X
11
Wolf O / SK
Town XX
Town X
Mafia OOOO
Town XXX
Town X
12
Wolf OOO / SK
Wolf O / SK
Town XX
Town XX
Mafia OOO
Town XXX
13
14

This is the Skeleton of the setup.
It shows the positions of Town, Mafia and Werewolf (SK) roles.
The more signs (O or X) are in a certain cell the stronger PR in that position has to be.
Note that the
actual
version is different from the Skeleton, because of the possible interactions of the PRs.


1234567
Mafia JOAT
Vanilla Townie
Town Jailkeeper
Mafia Goon
Vanilla Townie
Town Tracker
8
Town Doctor
Town Odd-Night Watcher
Town 1-Shot Vigilante
Town 1-Shot Cop
Mafia JOAT
Mafia Rolecop
9
Town Even-Night Tracker
Vanilla Townie
Mafia Rolecop
Town Jailkeeper
Town Fruit Vendor
Mafia 2-Shot Strongman
10
Town 2-Shot Commuter
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon
Vanilla Townie
Town Watcher
Town Universal Backup
11
Wolf Goon / SK
Town Bodyguard
Vanilla Townie
Mafia Godfather
Town Cop
Vanilla Townie
12
Wolf JOAT / SK
Wolf Goon / SK
Town Neighbourizer
Town 1-Shot Cop
Mafia Roleblocker
Town Doctor
13
14



Just like in Matrix–6, the Mod secretly determines the Setup is to be played, but in Matrix–14 the Matrix can be read
diagonally too
. Therefore, the total amount of the possible Setups is 14 (not 12).

Spoiler: These are the possible Setups; the Vanilla Townies and the Mafia goon are included
(1) Werewolf Goon, Werewolf JOAT, Mafia Goon, Mafia JOAT, Town Doctor, Town Even-Night Tracker, Town 2-Shot commuter, 6 Vanilla Townies (9:2:2)
(2) Mafia Goon, Mafia Roleblocker, Serial Killer, Town Odd-Night Watcher, Town Bodyguard, 8 Vanilla Townies (10:2:1)
(3) Mafia Rolecop, 2 Mafia Goons, Town Jailkeeper, Town 1-Shot Vigilante, Town Neighbourizer, 7 Vanilla Townies (10:3)
(4) Mafia Godfather, 2 Mafia Goons, Town Jailkeeper, 2 Town 1-Shot Cops, 7 Vanilla Townies (10:3)
(5) Mafia JOAT, Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Fruit Vendor, Town Watcher, Town Cop, 7 Vanilla Townies (10:3)
(6) Mafia Rolecop, Mafia 2-Shot Strongman, Mafia goon, Town Tracker, Town Universal Backup, Town Doctor, 7 Vanilla Townies (10:3)
(7) Mafia JOAT, 2 Mafia Goons, Serial Killer, Town Bodyguard, Town Jailkeeper, Town Tracker, 6 Vanilla Townies (9:3:1)
(8) Mafia JOAT, 2 Mafia Goons, Town Jailkeeper, Town Tracker, 8 Vanilla townies (10:3)
(9) Mafia JOAT, Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Doctor, Town Odd-Night Watcher, Town 1-Shot Vigilante, Town 1-Shot Cop, 6 Vanilla Townies (10:3)
(10) Mafia Roleblocker, 2 Mafia Goons, Town Nurse, Town Doctor, Town Fruit Vendor 7 Vanilla Townies (10:3)
(11) Mafia Roleblocker, 2 Mafia Goons, Town 2-Shot Commuter, Town Watcher, Town Universal Backup, 7 Vanilla Townies (10:3)
(12) Mafia Godfather, Mafia Goon, Serial Killer, Town Bodyguard, Town Cop, 8 Vanilla Townies (10:2:1)
(13) Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Werewolf JOAT, Werewolf Goon, Town Neighbourizer, Town 1-Shot Cop, Town Doctor, 6 Vanilla Townies (9:2:2)
(14) Mafia JOAT, Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Odd-Night Watcher, Town Cop, Town Doctor, 7 Vanilla Townies (10:3)

Nine of the Setups are 10:3, two of them are 9:2:2, two of them are 10:2:1 and one Setup is 9:3:1.


(3) If the Setup contained only one Werewolf slot, it gets replaced by a Serial Killer. (These Setups: (2), (7) and (12) )
The Serial Killer is to choose their PR pregame:
either
Strongman AND Ninja
or
1-shot Bulletproof.

(4) If the Setup is 10:2:1 – (2) and (12) –, the Mafia faction has Daytalk. In all other cases there's no Daytalk.

(5) If there's a Werewolf faction – (1) and (13) – the Mafia is informed about this fact.

(6) The Mafia/Werewolf JOAT has the following abilities: Ninja, Strongman, Roleblocker – all of them are 1-shot. The JOAT can use only one of their abilities at Night.

(7) The Mafia Roleblocker
is
able to Block and Kill at the same Night. (This doesn't go for the Mafia or the Werewolf JOAT.) With this exception, no scum can perform a kill and use an active ability at the same Night.

(8) If an X-shot ability is disabled during the night, the shot is lost for good. The Bulletproof ability blocks the first incoming shot automatically.

(9) Unless it's stated otherwise, Natural Action Resolution applies.
The notable differences and the things which are to be cleared are the following:
– If the Bodyguard gets blocked, any shots targetting their intended target is successful whereas the Bodyguard survives. (Setup (2) and (7) )
– If the Neighbourizer targets the 1-Shot Vigilante at the same night as the Vigilante targets the Neighbourizer, both actions are successful: the Vigilante joins the Neighbourhood and the Neighbourizer dies (Setup (3) ).
– The Town Universal Backup gains the first flipped PR automatically. In case of getting the Strongman ability (Setup (6) ) the Backup turns into a Strongman and by this, gets a useless role. (Since they're unable to shoot at all.)
– The Jailkeeper has priority over the Bodyguard. If they target the same player, any kills performed on the particular player fails (and the Bodyguard survives); unless the player is targetted by the Strongman ability (in this case the Jailed and Bodyguarded player dies whereas the Bodyguard survives). If the Jailkeeper and the Bodyguard targets each other, any kills performed on the Bodyguard fails and any kills performed on the Jailkeeper is successful. (Yet again, the Strongman ability ovverrides both of them and the original target dies.) (Setup (7) ).
– The Mafia JOAT ovverrides the Town Jailkeeper (Setup (7) and (8) ).

(10) Any player can join a Matrix–14 game who finished at least one Newbie game before.

Spoiler: Recent changes
According to Tiershift's ideas shown in the following slots has been changed:

– the cell (4;9) is now Town 1-Shot Cop (instead of Vanilla Townie)
– the cell (1;10) is now Town Even-Night Tracker (instead of Nurse)
– the cell (4;10) is now Town Jailkeeper (instead of Doctor)
– the cell (6;10) is now Mafia 2-Shot Strongman (instead of Mafia Strongman)
– the cell (6;13) is now Town Doctor (instead of Town Even-Night Doctor)

The Nurse has been removed from Matrix–14.


________

I'm still open to any suggestion and modification.
Last edited by Aneninen on Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #7884 (isolation #5) » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:53 am

Post by Aneninen »

Thanks for your ideas, the Setup has been changed.
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Post Post #7885 (isolation #6) » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:56 am

Post by Aneninen »

As for the SK, they can have Ninja and Strongman at the same time, alternatively, they can choose 1-Shot Bulletproof. (JK9++ has the same version of SK. They can either defend themselves against investigation and become a prone target to Nightkills or vice versa.)

The issue with the Doctor/Bodyguard pair is solved, the Doctor slot has been changed to Jailkeeper (which has priority over the Bodyguard – I think that's better for town and it's in the only 9:3:1 Setup so...)
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Post Post #7888 (isolation #7) » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:13 am

Post by Aneninen »

The Wiki page for Matrix 14 has been created.

LamaFluff, SB: can you explain why (2), (4), (9), (11) and (12) are unbalanced?

I don't think JOATs are overpowered in that form, all of their abilities are 1-Shot after all.
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Post Post #7890 (isolation #8) » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:30 am

Post by Aneninen »

The sooner the town loses PRs the sooner the townies know the Setup so it's a kind of "anti-swing compensation" (if that expression exists at all).
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Post Post #7900 (isolation #9) » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:10 am

Post by Aneninen »

Llamafluff and everyone who's interested in:

I've opened the Discussion page on the wiki for Matrix 14, we can talk about it there. (I've just written the answer for Lamafluff's latest post.)

Meanwhile, I'm thinking about Guyett's idea. It seems to be weird but that doesn't mean it's bad ^_^
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Post Post #7905 (isolation #10) » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:33 pm

Post by Aneninen »

In post 7891, Guyett wrote:
3
Mafia

3
Mafia

3
Mafia

3
Masons

1
Gunsmith

6
Vanilla Townies
Colors are modified because of the colorblind – Aneninen


Day chat happens
Each group (mafia and mason) have 1 gun and 1 bulletproof vest each.
No one person is assigned these items, they can rotate them between themselves.
However one person CANNOT wear the vest and carry the gun at the same time.
Gunsmith only gets a guilty on someone carrying a gun the night of the investigation.

We just finished the first game of it on my other site (we ran it with 5 VT instead of 6 VT and town won)


That is a very interesting Setup. As I said elsewhere a couple of times, Multiballs are inherently swingy, players signing up for a game like this should be aware of it, instead of whining about swingy games. ^_^

I assume if only one member of a certain Mafia/Mason faction is alive, they can choose whether use the Bulletproof Vest or the Gun.

________

However, if we take a closer look on the Setup, it boils down to this:

3
Mafia

3
Mafia

3
Mafia

3
Masons

1
Tracker

6
Vanilla Townies


Day chat happens
Each group (mafia and mason) have a Bulletproof Vest. At Night, each group can choose who is to wear the Vest. Those players who're wearing the Vest can't perform the Nightkill.

With one notable exception:
Tracker gives information about the targetted player too.

________

If we take a look at the Setup now, it seems to be clear (at least, it is clear for me) that Town don't have enough powers to cope with three Mafia factions. 3 Masons with a Nightkill and a Tracker. Crosskills can happen, sure, but the Masons may Miskill too (and yet again, the swinginess).

I would say, Town should get another PR (and by doing this the total amount of players gets 20). For example this:
1
Selective Cop
with a PM like this:
Each Night you can choose a color and target a player. If the player is affiliated with the Mafia of the color of your choice, you'll get a GUILTY read, otherwise you'll get a NOT GUILTY read.


That would make the Setup a bit more balanced.
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Post Post #7906 (isolation #11) » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:49 pm

Post by Aneninen »

In post 7901, Herodotus wrote:
In post 7375, BBmolla wrote:
Shortnight


6 Players

2 Mafia Goons

4 Vanilla Townies


  • Daystart
  • Players are split into two groups of three, with one mafia in each group, and are put into seperate rooms.
  • Players must lynch amongst the people in their room.
  • If both mafia are lynched d1 in both rooms, town wins.
  • If one mafia is lynched d1, that mafia vengekills one of the players from his room and the rooms combine.
  • If no mafia are lynched d1, the town players who were lynched must agree on a vig kill. If the kill is on mafia, the game continues in LYLO. Otherwise, mafia wins.

Town EV is 40%. 11% chance of win D1, 22% chance of lynching 1 scum and a townie, then lynching the other scum, and 7% chance of mislynching then coming back to win.
In the 3-player rooms, I'm not sure that there is any scumhunting because there is no association. Maybe instead of separating the town into rooms, let everyone discuss and vote together but publicly label half of the town as group A, with one goon, and group B, with the other. On the first day, one player from each group must be lynched.


With Herodotos's idea it seems to be fun.
I assume the groups are known by everyone, aren't they?
What if the chat is "common" but Group A players can vote for members of their group and Group B players are doing the same?
I also assume the same goes for the Vengekill (eg. if the Mafia of Group A gets lynched, they can only Vengekill someone from Group A).
Should Mafia have a Daytalk?

Also, the Town EV seems to be more than 40% in this case, because of associative tells and the grouping.
Eg in case of a Day1 like this: (players are labelled as A1 A2 A3, B1 B2 B3, where A1 and B1 are Mafia)
– Mafia A gets lynched, Vengekills Townplayer A2
– Group B mislynches, B2 gets killed
A3 player is confirmed Town. It's a 3-player LyLo with a confirmed townie.

Or this:
– Both rooms perform mislynches, A2 and B2 are dead
– The town Kill succeeds, they kill A1
It's the same as above.

Also, I assume there's no Nightkill. If there were, B1 would kill A3 and Day2 would start with two players. So, Town could only win if both rooms lynched Mafia on Day1.
Therefore, it should be named as a Nightless Setup.
It's also good for players practicing LyLos, to a certain extent. ^_^
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Post Post #7908 (isolation #12) » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:43 pm

Post by Aneninen »

I've read the numbers.
44% seems to be acceptable. Good scumhunting from the townies can give at least additional 6% ^_^
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Post Post #7916 (isolation #13) » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:20 am

Post by Aneninen »

While I still welcome any ideas for my other Setup,
Matrix 14
(check out either this chat or the Wiki!), I present you another possible Setup.

ChargeMeUp!


(1) The basic Setup is the following:
– 3 Mafia
– 11 Townies
(So, it's a 11:3)

(2) In their first PM players get
only their alignment
. By confirming this, each player sends back a PM including
a desired PR
and
a name they wish to Charge-up
– from now on, it's called Pre-Game Vote.
No player is allowed to self-vote in this phase
.
Discussing about this topic Pre-Game in the Queue thread or anyone else must be strictly forbidden.
(Even if a discussion like that would be most probably pointless.)

The PRs players can choose are the following:


– Cop
– Rolecop
– Tracker
– Watcher
– Commuter
– Doctor
– Jailkeeper
– Redirector (Unable to Redirect Desperado)
– Midnight Desperado (has Nightkill (!), but if the Desperado would kill a townie, they die instead)
– Friendly Neighbour (Can target another player who learns their alignment)
– Recharger
– Mystic

Recharger and Mystic are PRs unique to the Setup.
A Recharger can target another player at Night; their target gains an additional shot (regardless of their role).
At Night a Mystic can learn
how many
actions have been performed during that Night, but not the nature of the actions themselves.

(3) Each player are getting
one
charge after each Pre-Game Vote. This means,
all PRs are essentially X-Shot in this Setup
!
However,
the following rules are applied in THIS order
:
– If a player gets no Pre-Game-Vote, they remain Vanilla Townie or Mafia Goon (respectively).
– If there are two or more players choosing the same PR, the one who got
less
Pre-Game Vote gets the PR and the other one remains Vanilla Townie or Mafia Goon.
– If
exactly
two players have the same PR and the same amount of Pre-Game Vote,
both
of them will get the desired PR.
– If
three or more
players have the same PR and the same amount of Pre-Game Vote,
all
of them will remain Vanilla Townie or Mafia Goon.

Is it too complicated?
Here's an example!
(The player names are random, as far as I know there are no players with these names.)

Spoiler:
Player name
Chosen PR
Pre-Game Vote
Amount of Votes
Acquired PR
Amount of Shots
AndrosynthRoleCopAriloulaleelay1Town Rolecop1
AriloulaleelayWatcherSyreen2Vanilla Townie
ChmmrJailkeeperSupox0Vanilla Townie
IlwrathCommuterMycon0Vanilla Townie
Melnorme
Rolecop
Syreen
1
Mafia Rolecop
1
MyconWatcherAriloulaleelay1Watcher1
Orz
Recharger
Melnorme
0
Mafia Goon
PkunkCommuterSyreen0Vanilla Townie
SlylandroFriendly NeighbourVUX1Town Friendly Neighbour1
SupoxDoctorYehat1Town Doctor1
Syreen
Redirector
VUX
3
Mafia Redirector
3
UmgahWatcherVUX0Vanilla Townie
VUXJailkeeperSlylandro3Jailkeeper3
YehatMidnight DesperadoAndrosynth1Town Midnight Desperado1


All the choices were determined randomly
, with the exception of the Mafia team's PR choices (marked by read color, here I left out obviously town-benefit PRs) and the Mafia team's pre-game votes (two voted for a buddy, one voted randomly so as to generate WIFOM).

These players remained Vanilla Townies because they didn't get any Pre-Game Votes: Chmmr, Ilwrath, Pkunk, Umgah. Orz remained Mafia Goon for the same reason.

Ariloulaleelay didn't get a PR because Mycon went for the same PR and he got less votes. (At this point Umgah is ignored because he didn't get any votes at all.)
Both Androsynth and Melnorme got Rolecop because both of them got the same amount of votes. (Both of them are 1-Shot.)
However, if Androsynth had voted for Umgah instead of Ariloulaleelay,
noone
would have gotten the Watcher PR because three players would have ended up with 1 votes.


(4) The Mafia
has
Daytalk and their Private Topic gets opened as soon as they get their Alignment PM. (So, they're able to discuss about their PR choices and votes.)

(5) As soon as everyone sent their PM about the chosen PR and the Pre-Game Vote, the players get informed about the acquired PR and the amount of shots.
No other information
is available for the players.
This means, noone knows who voted for them. If someone failed to get a PR, they won't be informed, why.

(6) The Resolution is the following (from highest to lowest priority):

– Mystic
– Commution
– Redirection
– Jailkeep
– Friendly Neighbour Message
– Protection
– Nightkill
– Investigation
– Recharge

________

Yet again, I'm open to any remarks and suggestions.
There's
one
thing: I want to include
less
possible choices than the total amount of the players.
Last edited by Aneninen on Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #7919 (isolation #14) » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:21 am

Post by Aneninen »

I phrased it badly; fixed. I want less choices than the amount of players so leaving out something isn't a problem.
As for Bus-Driver: I would like to include something definitely scum-benefit
but
not entirely useless for the town. Therefore, a Ninja or a Strongman wouldn't do the trick. Any ideas?
Maybe Vig
and
Desperado are too much together. I don't think Desperado is OP and I would really like to "revive" that PR (as far as I know it appears very, very rarely and it's a cool thing). And I still would like to see a possibility for some extra kills without turning it into a Multiball.
Suggestions?
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Post Post #7921 (isolation #15) » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:33 am

Post by Aneninen »

I'm from mobile so I'll edit the post as I get home. How about removing the Vig and modifiey Desperado to Nightkill instead of Daykill? Plus, a simple Redirector instead of a Busdriver?
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Post Post #7923 (isolation #16) » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:09 pm

Post by Aneninen »

Thanks for your ideas, the Setup has been edited (see above!)
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Post Post #7924 (isolation #17) » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:13 pm

Post by Aneninen »

As for the Chain Reaction: how do multiple Kidnaps resolve? What would happen if players massclaimed on Day1 and they set up a Kidnapping chain?
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Post Post #7936 (isolation #18) » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:13 am

Post by Aneninen »

^^
That.
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Post Post #8092 (isolation #19) » Fri May 08, 2015 9:33 am

Post by Aneninen »

In post 8090, TierShift wrote:(1) This looks interesting!
Just a few questions to think about:
(2) Why is the mafia oracle only 1-shot and town oracles 2-shot? Doesn't make sense.
(3) I think the roleblocker should be full RB, why is it 1-shot?
(4) Why can't mafia oracle target partner or the person mafia kills? Seems like a needlessly complicating rule.

(1) I agree.
(2) To screw everything up one shot is enough too. (Eg. if both Oracles claim on the same Day and they agree whom to target, one can be Nightkilled and the other's target can be targetted. Or the Oracle Roleblocked? WIFOM-goldmine, lol.) On the other hand, the Setup itself seems to be very townsided if the town manages to lynch a Mafia on Day1.
(3) Full Roleblocker would be better, see the note above! (At least the Mafia could try to derail the Roleblocker wagon and bus the Mafia Oracle.)
(4) I agree this. Without this rule there are more WIFOM.
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Post Post #8122 (isolation #20) » Wed May 13, 2015 7:56 pm

Post by Aneninen »

Nice idea, Wgeurts! You're mastering the original C9++/JK9 for every possible purposes. ^_^

I'd pump up the P secion, I suppose. A full-Bodyguard won't hurt.
Something like:

P - Bodyguard
PP - Jailkeeper
PPP - Bodyguard + 1-Shot Jailkeeper
PPPP - Jailkeeper + 1-Shot Bodyguard
PPPPP - Jailkeeper + Bodyguard

By the way, can the Tailor self-target?
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Post Post #8125 (isolation #21) » Wed May 13, 2015 8:35 pm

Post by Aneninen »

Tailor could self-target, in my opinion.
What you're saying about the 1-shots is right, however, your new version is not good either. There may be Setups with 4 Town-PRs and a massclaim on Day1 might break the game. Claiming a 1-Shot Bodyguard instantly is not all that bad anyway: the town would know more about the Setup and the Bodyguard could die easily even without the claim.
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Post Post #8127 (isolation #22) » Wed May 13, 2015 8:45 pm

Post by Aneninen »

Thinking...................
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Post Post #8130 (isolation #23) » Wed May 13, 2015 10:03 pm

Post by Aneninen »

Bodyguard is a fun PR to play with, in my opinion.

Maybe a mixed version?

P - 1-Shot Jailkeeper
PP - Bodyguard
PPP - Bodyguard + 1-Shot Jailkeeper
PPPP - Jailkeeper + 1-Shot Bodyguard
PPPPP - Jailkeeper + Bodyguard

In this case only the 1-Shot Bodyguard knows the Setup distribution in PPPP.

Also, I've just noticed that the Cop and the Tracker follows the same scheme – although it's not a real disadvantage for having a Tracker, because of the Framer/Tailor pair.
Are we sure that a Tailor is stronger in this Setup than a Framer? If not, the M Tailor and the MM Framer might be swapped for more WIFOM.
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Post Post #8132 (isolation #24) » Wed May 13, 2015 11:32 pm

Post by Aneninen »

Framer/Tailor.
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Post Post #8210 (isolation #25) » Sat May 23, 2015 6:00 am

Post by Aneninen »

I'm reposting my Micro idea. It was originally created for the Setup Competition
but
I've changed quite a few things since then.
Tell me your ideas how to make it better before I put it on the Wiki.
Thanks!


Corrupt A Wish!


Spoiler: Setup Description
(1) The Setup is the following:

9 Players


2 Mafia Goons

1 Tracker

1 Doctor

1 Jailkeeper

1 RoleCop
(Reveals the target's role, including the way how it works – see below! –, but doesn't reveal the target's alignment)
3 Vanilla Townies
(actually there are 4 Vanilla Townies, see below!)

Most precisely, it would be
great
for the town if this were the Setup!
...
If only
the Mafia didn't ruin everything for them!

(2) But,
in the pre-game phase
, the Mafia corrupts almost everything for the town. They pick
one
Power Role for each of these modifiers:

One
Power Role will NOT be in the game at all. (No player gets neither the Power Role, nor a PM for the role; it's replaced by VT)
One
Power Role gets totally corrupted (see below!)
One
Power Role gets partly corrupted (see below!)
One
Power Role will be working as normal.

The players who has the Power Role (determined randomly, as in every other games) will
still
receive the normal PM, as if everything were okay... (In other words: apart from the Mafia no players get informed whether the Power Roles are working normally or not.)

(3) The corrupted roles work as detailed here:

– A
Corrupted Tracker
gets a result that their target visited the player killed by the Mafia, regardless of the target's Night Action (if there's any). If there's no Nightkill for any reason, they get a
Visited No one
message.
– A
Partly Corrupted Tracker
gets informed whether their target visited someone (in this case they get a
Visited Someone
message) or not, but not the nature of the action itself.
– A
Corrupted Doctor
is
Weak
and
Quack
(their protection will not work at all, but they die if they visit a Mafia)
– A
Partly Corrupted Doctor
is a
Weak Doctor
(they die if they visit a Mafia)
– A
Corrupted Jailkeeper
Jails the
same player each Night and this player is selected by the Mafia pre-game
. The Corrupted Jailkeeper prevents all actions performed on and by the jailed player
except for
getting Nightkilled. (If the player chosen for getting jailed every Night dies, the Jailkeeper is simply a Quack; their actions are getting ignored. If the Jailkeeper dies, no player gets jailed anymore.)
– A
Partly Corrupted Jailkeeper
acts like a
Roleblocker
; they prevent every action performed
by
the player but don't prevent any actions performed
on
the player.
– A
Corrupted RoleCop
gets a
Vanilla
result on everyone. In addition, the Mod reveals the
real
result of their investigation in the Mafia Quicktopic.
– A
Partly Corrupted RoleCop
reveals the role sent to the target via their role PM, but doesn't reveal whether the role itself is corrupted or not.
– For making everything clear: a
Normal RoleCop
reveals both the role and the Corruption Level (eg. Playerxxxx is a Weak Doctor, Playerzzzz is a Corrupted Jailkeeper)

(4)
At the flip, both the Power Roles and their Corruption level will be revealed.
This means the following messages, respectively:
– Corrupted Tracker; Partly Corrupted Tracker ; Tracker
– Weak Quack Doctor ; Weak Doctor ; Doctor
– Corrupted Jailkeeper ; Roleblocker ; Jailkeeper
– Corrupted RoleCop ; Role PM Cop ; RoleCop

(5) Natural Action Resolution Applies

(6)
No player can self-target.

However,
it's not compulsory to perform a Night Action
: any PR can perform No Action instead.
In this case the Corrupted Jailkeeper's target (determined by the Mafia pre-game) doesn't get jailkept at all; in the Mafia QuickTopic there will be a message of "No Result" if the Corrupted RoleCop targets no one.

(7) If A Corrupted Tracker or a Corrupted RoleCop targets a jailed or roleblocked player, they still get their corrupted result (Visited [Nightkilled Player] or Vanilla, respectively, in the latter case the investigation result doesn't appear in the Mafia QuickTopic; they get an "Investigation failed" message). Anyone else gets a "No Result" on a jailed or roleblocked player, except for the Doctors, who don't get a message at all whether their protection worked or not. If a Weak Doctor targets a jailed or roleblocked Mafia, they won't die.
The same happens if a jailed/roleblocked player sends the investigation: a Corrupted Tracker / RoleCop gets the Visited [Nightkilled Player] and the Vanilla result, everyone else get a "No Result" PM; Doctors get no information about their protection. (Jailed Weak Doctors don't die if they target a Mafia.)

(8) Here's an example for a possible Setup:

– 2 Mafia Goons
– 1 Doctor
– 1 Partly Corrupted Jailkeeper (in practice, a RoleBlocker; the player gets a normal Jailkeeper PM)
– 1 Corrupted RoleCop (the player gets a normal RoleCop PM)
– 4 Vanilla Townies

Here's an example for a possible Flip:
Aneninen, Town Roleblocker (Party Corrupted Jailkeeper) got Killed at Night1.


(As we can see, in this Setup there's no Tracker but only the Mafia knows this...)

(9)
Good Luck, Townies! ^_^


________

Those who've been familiar with the previous version can see that I replaced the Cop with a Tracker and modified the Doctor a bit. Also, I made a couple of questions clear see (6)!
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Post Post #8211 (isolation #26) » Sat May 23, 2015 6:07 am

Post by Aneninen »

In post 8201, RedCoyote wrote:
Long Lost Friends
1 A Mafia Goon
1 B Mafia Goon

5 Townies
2 Bulletproof

Each night, both goons decide whether they want to shoot or look for the other goon. Shooting is a normal nightkill. If they choose to look for the other goon, they choose one name to submit to the mod. If the name is the other goon, the two goons are partnered up and receive a private topic they may use during day and night. If the name isn't the other goon, nothing happens.

In post 8203, BBmolla wrote:Game is unwinnable if one Mafia Goon is lynched cause can't get rid of Bulletproofs.

BBMolla pointed out a big problem. Maybe if there were 1-Shot Bulletproofs.
Also, the Mafia Goons are prone targets to each other and a crosskill can make everything even worse. What if they were also 1-Shot Bulletproof?
Alternatively, replace the Bulletproofs with an A–Cop and a B–Cop; the A–Cop can only find A Goon and the B–Cop can only find B–Goon.
The idea is great, though.
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Post Post #8459 (isolation #27) » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:25 pm

Post by Aneninen »

^
Cool!

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