[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
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Post Post #6390 (isolation #0) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:11 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Listen up, person. This is a setup. It's based on the originally Belgian TV show
The Mole
.

Mole Mafia


16 Vanilla Townies
2 Moles

Mechanics


Every night and pre-game, the moles answer a list of questions (some of them are kind of personal), such as "How tall are you?" The townies have to answer these questions, rephrased to "How tall is the mole?", the night after. The last question is always "Who is the mole?"

Every townie gets assigned a penalty, based on how far their guesses are from the answers of the moles. If both moles are alive, the penalty is calculated for both of them. The best one is the final penalty. Correctly answering one half of the questions for one mole and the other half for the other mole results in a higher penalty than giving a correct answer to 60% of the questions for one mole and 0% for another.

The townie with the highest final penalty dies. This death is indistinguishable from the mole's nightkill. Even the dead people don't know how they've been killed until after the game. But here's the kicker: unlike the nightkilled townie, the worst guesser immediately loses. The moles can double kill once. The townie with the highest penalty doesn't die that night, so the kill pattern is the same as every other night to the townies. This should make it harder for the townies to draw information from the nightkills.

If the moles win, all townies lose equally. If town wins, all townies win except for the ones that died as a result of having the highest penalty.

That's it, person. Now give me those opinions. Please.
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Post Post #6398 (isolation #1) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:06 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Trouble Communicating


1 Mafia Gunbearer
1 Mafia Weak Compulsive Double The Dose Doctor Backup Gunbearer
1 Mafia Weak Compulsive Double The Dose Doctor Backup Backup Gunbearer

7 Vanilla Townies

The Mafia know their partners, but they have no way of communicating outside the main thread. The Gunbearer submits the nightkill. Every night, the Weak Compulsive Double The Dose Doctor (dibs on the band name) can choose between committing suicide and protecting two townies. If two doctors target the same townie, the target isn't protected. If the Gunbearer dies, the Backup becomes the new Gunbearer and loses his ability to protect.

The Mafia role PM will contain a link to the wiki article on Breadcrumbs.

Thoughts?
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Post Post #6403 (isolation #2) » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:28 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

How about this:

1 Mafia Gunbearer
1 Mafia Weak Compulsive Double The Dose Doctor Backup Gunbearer
1 Mafia Weak Compulsive Double The Dose Doctor Backup Backup Gunbearer

6 Vanilla Townies
1 Tracker
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Post Post #6405 (isolation #3) » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:15 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Thanks for the input! One last try:

1 Mafia Gunbearer
1 Mafia Weak Compulsive Double Dose Faith Healer Backup Gunbearer
1 Mafia Weak Compulsive Double Dose Faith Healer Backup Backup Gunbearer

7 Vanilla Townies
1 Town Voyeur (finds out which action(s) is/are performed on his target)

The Faith Healers have a 75% chance of protecting their targets. If both Faith Healers target the same person, the protection fails.

The Voyeur can murder meta and confirm townies.
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Post Post #6412 (isolation #4) » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:15 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Crazier solution: give all power roles the same cop/doc role PM. Return random results to both the random cop and the doctor. This would make fakeclaiming easier.
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Post Post #6419 (isolation #5) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:03 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

If one faction is on fire and they are about to murder the last one of their opponents, he can just truthfully claim and the third party people will make sure he won't get lynched. This is a result of town being the minority.

If everyone knew everyone's role in this setup, no-one except the serial killer would get lynched.
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Post Post #6425 (isolation #6) » Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:27 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 6420, Wake1 wrote:I don't quite understand the first segment of your post...

The second part I don't quite see eye-to-eye on, either.
For example, if three mafia are lynched and three townies are killed on the first three days, the last member could claim scum because he knows the other factions lose if they lynch him.
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Post Post #6470 (isolation #7) » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:11 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

I worked out my Trouble Communicating setup and put everything in a wiki page. Feedback would be appreciated.
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Post Post #6476 (isolation #8) » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:01 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 6471, JasonWazza wrote:The main problem is simple, it promotes random lynching.
I think you're overestimating the chance that the nightkill won't go through if both the gunbearer and the doctors choose randomly.
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Post Post #6507 (isolation #9) » Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:47 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

okay new one

Fucking Police State


3 Mafia Goons/Spies
2 Cops
7 Vanilla Townies

Mechanics:

-Mafia Goons have daytalk.
-During pre-game, the Mafia decide which members go undercover. Undercover members are immune for investigations and flip as Mafia Spy, but they have no access to the factional quicktopic (the mod creates a new one for in-game chat) and can't perform the factional kill.
-Every night, the Goon(s) may call back one or more Spies. This turns them back into Mafia Goons at the start of the next day.
-The game becomes Nightless + No No Lynch when all Goons are dead.
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Post Post #6530 (isolation #10) » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:53 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 6521, LlamaFluff wrote:
In post 6507, Bicephalous Bob wrote:big post
This might actually be a somewhat interesting setup.

Big question for balance would be

1) When do spies get "called back" and how does that resolve with the investigate action
2) Can a spy re-goon themselves at night?
1) "Every night, the Goon(s) may call back one or more Spies. This turns them back into Mafia Goons at the start of the next day," so the cops get a negative result on a Spy who is called back that same night.
2) The original answer was: "A spy can't call himself back, but if I were scum in this game, I'd discuss breadcrumbs in pre-game chat," but then I realized the cops can claim when all Goons are dead. A nightless game is probably too harsh a punishment for the Mafia. Is this a good solution?

Gun Control


3 Mafia Goons/Spies
2 Gunsmiths
8 Vanilla Townies

Mechanics:

-Mafia Goons have daytalk.
-The Gunsmith's result is the number of guns the target has. Gunsmiths have three guns. A member of the Mafia has one gun by default.
-In pre-game chat, the Mafia decide which members give their guns to other members. Members with no guns flip as Mafia Spy, have no access to the factional quicktopic (the mod creates a new one for in-game chat) and can't perform the factional kill.
-Every night, Goons with multiple guns may give one or multiple Spies a gun. This turns them back into Mafia Goons at the start of the next day. Goons can't give all of their guns away after pre-game. Goons can give guns to each other.
-The first time all Goons are dead, each remaining Spy gets one shot at stealing a gun from someone. They can use this shot at any time, but the Mafia has no factional kill as long as it isn't armed. If a Gunsmith is targeted, the Spy turns into a Goon at the start of the next day. Nothing happens if the target is a Vanilla Townie. No-one is ever informed of the (attempted) theft.
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Post Post #6787 (isolation #11) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:39 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

4 3p lylo Vengeful Townies
2 Mafia Goons

The mafia have daytalk. No lynch is a scum win. The 3p lylo vengeful townies have a vengeful shot in 3-player lylo. Nightkills and vengeful shots are compulsive.

The number of nightkills the mafia get is the number of kills necessary to get the game to lylo. For example, if a goon is lynched on day 1, the mafia get two nightkills. If it's lylo at the start of a night, the mafia have to turn a townie into a vanilla townie. Townies are notified when losing their vengeful ability.

-----

If a goon was lynched on day 1, the chances of mafia winning if all lynches and vengeful shots are random are 33%.

If a townie was lynched on day 1, the townie who lost his vengeful ability and a goon should both claim to be turned into a vanilla townie (unless the mafia are convinced they can get one of the vengeful townies lynched and he'll shoot the other vengeful townie). The odds of scum winning the 1v1 are 50/50. If the counterclaiming goon gets lynched, the townie who lost his vengeful ability is killed and the chances of mafia winning on day 3 are 33%.
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Post Post #6789 (isolation #12) » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:33 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

they don't have to, but it's the logical thing to do in most cases

if two townies are tunneling each other the mafia could confirm the third one

that way, they don't have to claim, but it's risky

if they do intend to claim, the mafia can pick the lynchee. both vengeful townies have to pick right to win
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Post Post #6894 (isolation #13) » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:37 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

hiders can be tracked by targetting their target, confirming the target as town
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Post Post #6905 (isolation #14) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:35 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 6903, Hoopla wrote:oh, i see what's going on.
In post 6901, hayatoBL wrote:Town-lynch day 1 results in: 1 Goon, 1 Traitor and 1 Townie left in D2. (Since obviously Goon is not going to kill Traitor N1)
why not kill the traitor N1 though? Goon/townie/townie endgame is a 66/33 chance of winning for the goon, but a goon/traitor/townie endgame is a 50/50 chance for the goon, as he now has to convince the traitor he is scum and not the townie.
the traitor should just self-vote in lylo
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Post Post #6906 (isolation #15) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:37 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

by which I mean 3p lylo
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Post Post #6927 (isolation #16) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:45 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Sadomafiosochism


2 Vanilla Townies
1 Innocent Child

1 Mafia Goon
1 Jester

The goon knows who the jester is. The IC is publicly confirmed as town at the start of day 1. The game continues after the jester is lynched. If still alive by the end of day 1, the jester commits suicide and the first night is skipped.
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Post Post #6929 (isolation #17) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:37 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

There are two players with the same anti-town objective (get the jester lynched) on day 1 and one knows who the other is. How is that not a team?
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Post Post #6936 (isolation #18) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:34 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 6930, Mr. Flay wrote:The Town is never going to let a Jestery-person get lynched, so you'll end up lynching somebody else randomly. 1/3 chance it's the Goon, autolose for the Mafia.
the optimal jester play is indistinguishable from transparent scum play

assuming the jester is competent, lynching a non-jestery person (a VT) on purpose would give the town a 50% win chance, which is lower than if the town lynched randomly

if the goon senses that the jester is incompetent he should whiteknight him and buddy the IC

either way the goon shows associative tells
In post 6934, quadz08 wrote:
In post 6933, TierShift wrote:You're assuming the Jester has a smaller chance to get lynched than random; thus, incompetent.
Your logic does not follow. I don't think it's particularly likely that
any
player is capable of consistently playing jester well enough to get lynched more often than random in that setup.
Why do you think that applies to the jester in this setup and not to anti-town factions in general?

The jester just has to consistently make the town believe he's scum, or if he's in a cautious town, he has to make them believe he's the safest lynch.
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Post Post #6938 (isolation #19) » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:39 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

So you don't think there are talented players who have a higher chance to win their first few games as scum?
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Post Post #6939 (isolation #20) » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:40 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Also that's an argument against any new wincon
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Post Post #6982 (isolation #21) » Thu May 15, 2014 10:48 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

By the end of day 1, everyone except for the towniest player gets ebony-voted by the player below them in the playerlist. Ivory votes all go to the towniest player in case scum are right next to each other. Wait until the lynch threshold is 1. Everyone dies except for the towniest!
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Post Post #6985 (isolation #22) » Thu May 15, 2014 10:53 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 6983, Mr. Flay wrote:If that's the way they want to play it, fine. Personally I doubt scummers have that kind of patience.
I wouldn't want to play a setup that can be broken by waiting very long. What's wrong with plurality lynches and a special rule for ties?

Also, is the lynch threshold in 3p lylo 1?
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Post Post #6988 (isolation #23) » Wed May 21, 2014 2:02 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 6986, Mr. Flay wrote:Raising the MinimumTM to 2 should solve the problem.
No, it just makes the problem twice as small. I'd advocate for 5 lynches on day 1. Again, what's wrong with plurality lynches and a special rule for ties?
Mr. Flay wrote:And yes, if it gets down to 3/5p LyLo I'll revert to strict majority.
In that case, I hope you drop the ivory votes in 5p lylo.
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Post Post #7005 (isolation #24) » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:58 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

if you intend this to be mountainous, f16, I suggest implementing white flag

also you might want to give the two last scum factional chat if they are known to each other (A and C or B and D)

A/C and B/D should probably have an opportunity to talk strategy pre-game before they're told about the third partner

you could even give the pairs daytalk for the first half of day 1 and delay the reveal of the third partner

it's probably pretty balanced as it stands, but more in an "if one scum fucks up there is no way to correct him" way which is annoying for the rest of the team
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Post Post #7028 (isolation #25) » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:43 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 7024, LlamaFluff wrote:In the interest of trying to get some new open setups for 11-15 players I am going to try and revive:
In post 6925, LlamaFluff wrote:
Making Friends and Enemies


3x Goons
2x Masons
8v Vanilla Town

Masons have the ability to recruit a new member on N1. If they attempt to recruit scum, the recruit fails. If they attempt to recruit town, the player is added to the masonry as "Recruited Mason".

Basically F&E with the masons being a one shot cop joint instead who confirm themselves to an innocent.
In post 6940, Toomai wrote:
Death and Taxes
v1.0


Vanilla Townie x7

Town Tax Collector x2

Town Homeless x1

Mafia Goon x3

  • Tax Collectors target three players. They are informed of how many of their three targets pay taxes, but not exactly who.
  • Mafia members and Homeless players do not pay taxes.
I have no idea how well balanced this is, but I like the general idea (-style investigative roles).
If people have comments on these two let me know.

For Toomai's setup I think Tax Collector and Homeless need to be variable numbers (TC 1-2, Homeless 1-3 with remainder VTs for example) to stop the game from being claim damaged. Otherwise you are looking at something that with an early scum lynch (or just lucky N1 action) can be broken for town. Maybe make it a goon-goon-GF or TC for scum as well.

Its a good miller variant. Could just eliminate the odd flavor and rename TC a cop and Homeless miller to make it less alien.
in toomai's setup, the miller claims right away

the tax collectors are three times as swingy and powerful as normal cops

the mason setup is alright but nothing special
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Post Post #7033 (isolation #26) » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:46 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

That setup is great and balanced and /pre-in.
In post 7031, Elscouta wrote:Yeah after rereading it seems that the best scum strategy is just to make sure only townies are sent to hell or heaven. I need to think of a way to make sure scum need to send their members to heaven in the first iterations.
"When at least 50% of the living are scum, a Judgment Day occurs. All living players lose the ability to vote. The townies sent to heaven get back their votes and send a living player to hell*. If the player is town, the Mafia win. If not, the game moves on to the heaven cycle."? Besides being a fair solution, this gives the townies in heaven more incentive to keep up with the game.

Also, I wouldn't give scum in heaven the ability to talk. The only thing they can do is disrupt the game's flow with WIFOM attempts.

*assuming plurality lynches, heaven-daystart and me thinking straight, this never breaks the cycle.
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Post Post #7035 (isolation #27) » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:32 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

That's rhe same as double day with two vigs and too much scum
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Post Post #7036 (isolation #28) » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:36 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Well, not exactly, but there will be a lot of boring nights
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Post Post #7045 (isolation #29) » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:32 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

You're right, the setup isn't superscumsided like I thought it was. It would probably be more fun if the vigs weren't 1-shot bp, though.
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Post Post #7097 (isolation #30) » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:30 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Mentor and babysitter are great roles and the combination is a great idea.

Notes:

-The mentor is probably about as powerful as a 1-shot friendly neighbor. The Babysitter is about as powerful as a doc. The ascetic townie is a negative utility. This isn't a lot of town power.
-The Mafia can get away with both roleblocking and killing a claimed babysitter. They don't have to care about the collateral damage if the babysitter has good reads. Similarly, they can roleblock a claimed mentor until they find the babysitter. Without a roleblocker, they have to fish for roles and generally show more incentive, which makes the game more fun.
-The ascetic goon can only block the mentor recruit. This doesn't add much.

Without making too many changes, this is probably more balanced and less complex:

3 Mafia Goons

1 Town Mentor
1 Town Babysitter
1 Named Townie
7 Vanilla Townies
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Post Post #7099 (isolation #31) » Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:38 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

3 Mafia 1-shot PGOs (active)

1 Town Cop
1 Town Jailkeeper
8 VTs

Besides the factional kill and the individual PGO shots, the Mafia have one factional PGO shot, meaning that one mafioso can arm himself twice. The mafioso performing the nightkill can't arm himself. PGO shots can't be blocked. Factional kills and PGO kills are indistinguishable.
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Post Post #7109 (isolation #32) » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:29 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 7099, Bicephalous Bob wrote:PGO shots can't be blocked.

!

I'm not sure what you're getting at with Strongman. Strongwilled would make more sense, and even that would make things only more confusing.
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Post Post #7111 (isolation #33) » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:03 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

it's impossible to target a PGO while being protected
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Post Post #7121 (isolation #34) » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:26 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

if you're giving the town random roles they should probably be of the same strength

as it stands, two vengefuls and a bp and a supersaint are possibilities

if one of those is balanced, the other one most definitely isn't
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Post Post #7143 (isolation #35) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:03 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

that's just the equivalent of a no-kill gambit in that setup

I like it

town should probably win if the scum have no way of igniting to prevent horribly drawn-out games, though

In post 7139, shos wrote:10v3 mountainous, when someone dies they just lose their vote. I mean, they can still talk, but lynch is at number of VOTES alive/2+1.

Is this balanced?

that's just mountainous with a treestump nightkill, right?

then no
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Post Post #7148 (isolation #36) » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:45 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

it doesn't just become nightless, the primed people can't be detonated anymore

assuming two scum get lynched anywhere during the game, the game can go on for 10 (I think but I can't be bothered to think) days

which is why

In post 7143, Bicephalous Bob wrote:town should probably win if the scum have no way of igniting to prevent horribly drawn-out games, though
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Post Post #7151 (isolation #37) » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:53 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

that minus the auto-ignition would be a good solution
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Post Post #7159 (isolation #38) » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:11 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 7152, TierShift wrote:shouldn't scum be punished for letting their igniters die tho?

In most cases losing all primes is a pretty big punishment, making all previous days effectively nightless

that's not such a big deal if scum get killed in the first two days, but that's counterbalancing
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Post Post #7161 (isolation #39) » Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:12 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

That doesn't make sense. If scum is run up they can always claim to be primed the night they didn't kill, whereas they're forced to tie the no kill to one of their members in advance if they have to claim immediately. Also, a more obvious benefit is that people will listen to you since you're confirmed town.

There is no disadvantage to claiming immediately except for some weak associative tells (scum might not try to run up primed townies?).
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Post Post #7247 (isolation #40) » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:58 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

I think venge-elite-bodyguards would be more balanced and interesting, since scum don't really have to fear for a succesful doc protect in that setup
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Post Post #7339 (isolation #41) » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:24 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Based on by Elscouta.

Purgatory


10 Vanilla Townies
4 Mafia Goons

-Instead of day and nights, phases alternate between heaven and hell. The game starts with a hell phase.
-During heaven phase, the town votes for one player to send to heaven. During hell phase, the town votes for one player to send to hell.
-Town wins if 3 scums are sent to hell, scum wins if 3 scums are sent to heaven.
-Alignment is revealed upon being sent to heaven or hell.
-All scum, whether alive or sent away, can talk to each other at all times in the Mafia PT.
-Only townies who are sent to heaven are added to the dead PT. Townies who are sent to heaven have a separate martyr PT.
-When 50% of the living players are scum*, a Judgment Day occurs. All living players lose the ability to vote. The martyrs privately vote in the martyr PT to send a living player to hell. If the player is town, the Mafia win. If not, the game moves on to a heaven phase.
-Plurality lynches.


*This can only happen after a heaven phase.
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Post Post #7344 (isolation #42) » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:51 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

oh I messed up, it's supposed to say 2.

It's probably more fun this way, although I'm not sure about the balance:

Purgatory


6/10 Vanilla Townies
3/5 Mafia Goons

-Instead of day and nights, phases alternate between heaven and hell. The game starts with a hell phase.
-During heaven phase, the town votes for one player to send to heaven. During hell phase, the town votes for one player to send to hell.
-Town wins if the majority of scum is sent to hell, scum wins if the majority of scum is sent to heaven.
-Alignment is revealed upon being sent to heaven or hell.
-All scum, whether alive or sent away, can talk to each other at all times in the Mafia PT.
-Only townies who are sent to hell are added to the dead PT. Townies who are sent to heaven have a separate martyr PT.
-When 50% of the living players are scum*, a Judgment Day occurs. All living players lose the ability to vote. The martyrs privately vote in the martyr PT to send a living player to hell. If the player is town, the Mafia win. If not, the game moves on to a heaven phase.
-Plurality lynches!


*This can only happen after a hell phase.
Last edited by Bicephalous Bob on Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #7349 (isolation #43) » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:24 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 7346, JasonWazza wrote:
In post 7344, Bicephalous Bob wrote:
-Only townies who are sent to heaven are added to the dead PT. Townies who are sent to heaven have a separate martyr PT.


This doesn't quite make sense, wouldn't this qualify the dead QT as the Martyr QT?

you're right, fixed it
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Post Post #7350 (isolation #44) » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:28 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 7348, Wake1 wrote:Could 'Rebels in the Palace' be considered Normal? (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... the_Palace)

I have an idea for a slight deviation on it, and would like to try it in the Normal queue.

I'm not sure nightless is allowed, but you could just call the guards traitors, the king a goon and the rebels vts
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Post Post #7425 (isolation #45) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:11 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

ROAP


4 Vanilla Townies
2 Mafia Goons

-Nightkills and vengeful shots are compulsive. Plurality rules are in effect for lynches.
-The number of nightkills the mafia get is the number of kills necessary to get the game to lylo.
-If a VT is lynched on Day 1, a Goon has to challenge another player on Night 1. On Day 2, only the challenger and the player challenged can be voted.
-3p lylo is vengeful.
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Post Post #7428 (isolation #46) » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:10 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

12v7 is probably better
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Post Post #7442 (isolation #47) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:38 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 7429, ArcAngel9 wrote:
In post 7428, Bicephalous Bob wrote:12v7 is probably better


Isn't the mafia suppose to be like 30% of total players? 30% of 19 is around 5.7 means "6". I think "7" will overpower mafia.
I see 14 Vs 7 fits well. Please correct me if i am wrong. ty

the scum ratio in the original setup is 4/11

4/11*19=7
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Post Post #7448 (isolation #48) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:30 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

I felt inspired.

Ceremonial Monarchy


1 King
4 Ministers

X Civilians

-Nightless.
-Civilians win when the King is dead.
-The King wins alone when he outlives all Ministers.
-The Ministers win when the King and at least one Minister is alive and the King and living Ministers are at least 50% of the living players.
-At the start of the game, The King gets the name of a random Minister. Once that Minister is dead, he gets a new name. If only two Ministers are left and the one who isn't confirmed to the King is lynched, the King wins alone.
-Ministers have daytalk.

Edit: Fixed so the King doesn't sell the ministers out when they're about to win.
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Post Post #7451 (isolation #49) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:19 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

yeah might as well give it a purpose
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Post Post #7453 (isolation #50) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:34 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 7448, Bicephalous Bob wrote:X Civilians

-Nightless.
-Civilians win when the King is dead.
-The King wins alone when he outlives all Ministers.
-The Ministers win when the King and at least one Minister is alive and the King and living Ministers are at least 50% of the living players.
-At the start of the game, The King gets the name of a random Minister. Once that Minister is dead, he gets a new name. If only two Ministers are left and the one who isn't confirmed to the King is lynched, the King wins alone.
-Ministers have daytalk.

Edit: Fixed so the King doesn't sell the ministers out when they're about to win.

What should the X be?
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Post Post #7458 (isolation #51) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:35 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

i thought you were joking

can a player claim he's 100% sure someone is scum?
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Post Post #7462 (isolation #52) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:57 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 7454, GreyICE wrote:and change the win condition so that ministers win when they're half of the population or more (don't count the king).

That doesn't work. The king can't be lynched if the civilians don't control the vote anymore. The civilians would become kingmakers at that point.
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Post Post #7464 (isolation #53) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:38 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 7462, Bicephalous Bob wrote:
In post 7454, GreyICE wrote:and change the win condition so that ministers win when they're half of the population or more (don't count the king).

That doesn't work. The king can't be lynched if the civilians don't control the vote anymore. The civilians would become kingmakers at that point.

this is actually only true in 1v1v1 and partially in 2v2v1

it'd lead to shitty situations no matter what
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Post Post #7468 (isolation #54) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:27 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

yeah that's why the minister wincon isn't what grey suggested
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Post Post #7469 (isolation #55) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:09 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Constitutional Monarchy


1 King
3 Ministers

7 Civilians

-Nightless, plurality lynches. Ten days for Day 1, five days for the other Days.
-The King knows who the Ministers are.
-Civilians win when the King is dead.
-The Ministers win and leave the game when the Civilians no longer control the vote.
-Before the Ministers have won, the King can win alone by outliving the Ministers. After the Ministers have won, the King can win alone by outliving the Civilians.
-Ministers have daytalk.
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Post Post #7472 (isolation #56) » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:19 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

I just realized the ministers could just claim. I give up on the concept.

That said, I'd appreciate feedback on this setup:

In post 7425, Bicephalous Bob wrote:previous version:

ROAP


4 Vanilla Townies
2 Mafia Goons

-Nightkills and vengeful shots are compulsive. Plurality rules are in effect for lynches.
-The number of nightkills the mafia get is the number of kills necessary to get the game to lylo.
-If a VT is lynched on Day 1, a goon has to challenge another player on Night 1. On Day 2, only the challenger and the challenged can be voted.
-3p lylo is vengeful.
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Post Post #7579 (isolation #57) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:50 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

by replacing out
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Post Post #7662 (isolation #58) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:25 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

4p setups

Rebels in the Gallows


King
Guard
2 Rebels

King and Guard know each other's identity. If the Guard is lynched Day 1, the game continues to 3p lylo*. If a rebel is lynched Day 1, the other Rebel is confirmed to him. The lynched Rebel then immediately has to guess the King's identity.

Rebels win if the King is lynched or called out. King and Guard win if the King survives and isn't called out.

*This is optimal for scum.


Spoiler: Variations
Guarding the Gallows


King
Guard
2 Rebels

King and Guard know each other's identity. If the Guard is lynched Day 1, the game continues to 3p lylo. If a rebel is lynched Day 1, the
Guard
is confirmed to him. The lynched Rebel then immediately has to guess the King's identity.

Rebels win if the King is lynched or called out. King and Guard win if the King survives and isn't called out.

Escaping the Gallows


King
Guard
2 Rebels

King and Guard know each other's identity. If the Guard is lynched Day 1, the game continues to 3p lylo. If a rebel is lynched Day 1, the
King
is confirmed to him. The lynched Rebel then immediately has to guess the
Guard
's identity.

Rebels win if the King is lynched or the Guard is called out. King and Guard win if the King survives and the Guard isn't called out.
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Post Post #7683 (isolation #59) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:32 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

M9++


9 players, 1 random number from 1-60, 2 random numbers from 1-100.

1-20 = J (Protective)
21-40 = I (Investigative)
41-60 = M (Mason)
61-100 = T (Townie. This directly influences scum powerroles.)

J = 1-shot Jailkeeper
JJ = Jailkeeper
JJJ = Jailkeeper + Doc

I = Tracker
II = Cop
III = Cop + Tracker

M = 1-shot Friendly Neighborizer (Friendly Neighbor and Neighborizer)
MM = 2 Seeking Masons (become masons if one targets the other)
MMM = 2 Masons

TT = 2 Mafia Goons, no kills on Night 1 and Night 3
T = 2 Mafia Goons
0 Ts = Mafia Goon + Roleblocker

Roleblocker's block goes through when a Roleblocker and Jailkeeper target each other. 1-shot roles don't lose their shot when roleblocked. Roleblocker can both kill and roleblock.

I need more roles that work with all of the others.
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Post Post #7686 (isolation #60) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:05 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Because town are low on PRs. But maybe the Mafia shouldn't be told their kills don't go through.
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Post Post #7688 (isolation #61) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:48 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

2 Goons vs 1-shot Jailkeeper?
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Post Post #7690 (isolation #62) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:18 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

2 goons vs a doc? That's even worse.

The Doc tier is impossible to balance in C9++ since its power heavily depends on the other PRs. How about:

TTT = 2 Mafia Goons, kills made on odd nights don't go through
TT = 2 Mafia Goons + Town Beloved Princess (the day after the BP is lynched is skipped)
T = 2 Mafia Goons
0 Ts = Mafia Goon + Roleblocker
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Post Post #7691 (isolation #63) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:21 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

oh edits

jk + doc vs rb is doable
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Post Post #7693 (isolation #64) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:40 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

not really though

doc is pretty close to a named townie without other PRs
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Post Post #7694 (isolation #65) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:55 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

newbie stats say both cop vs 2 goons and jk vs 2 goons are balanced

beloved princess doesn't make any sense

I like the original setup except for TT
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Post Post #7695 (isolation #66) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:00 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

first game ending death is vengeful?
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Post Post #7696 (isolation #67) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:05 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

or just 5p lylo and 6p mylo

that should work
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Post Post #7697 (isolation #68) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:09 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

A named townie!
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Post Post #7698 (isolation #69) » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:06 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

yeah none of that made sense

M9++


9 players, 3 random numbers from 1-100.

1-20 = J (Protective)
21-40 = I (Investigative)
41-60 = M (Mason)
61-100 = T (Townie. This directly influences scum powerroles.)

J = 1-shot Jailkeeper
JJ = Jailkeeper
JJJ = Jailkeeper + Doc

I = Tracker
II = Cop
III = Cop + Tracker

M = 1-shot Friendly Neighborizer (Friendly Neighbor and Neighborizer)
MM = 2 Seeking Masons (become masons if one targets the other)
MMM = 2 Masons

TTT = 2 Mafia Lovers
TT = ??
T = 2 Mafia Goons
0 Ts = Mafia Goon + Roleblocker

Roleblocker's block goes through when a Roleblocker and Jailkeeper target each other. 1-shot roles don't lose their shot when roleblocked. Roleblocker can both kill and roleblock.

TT is still
a bit shitty
unresolved
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Post Post #7701 (isolation #70) » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:48 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

T = Goon + Goon is balanced

it really is

the original setup had no TTT possibility but I think this is interesting too

nightless Lovers Mafia has like a 60% EV but is still mostly won by scum

2v7 with mafia lovers has a 66% EV so that's better I think?

I really don't like the prospect of 1-shot JK vs 2 goons
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Post Post #7704 (isolation #71) » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:56 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

TTT = 2 Mafia Lovers
TT = 2 Mafia Goons + some weak town PR
T = 2 Mafia Goons
0 Ts = Mafia Goon + Mafia Roleblocker

it isn't pretty but it should work

p-edit: oh hey
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Post Post #7705 (isolation #72) » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:57 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

the obvious answer is doc
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Post Post #7706 (isolation #73) » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:00 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

M9++


9 players, 3 random numbers from 1-100.

1-23 = J (Protective)
24-46 = I (Investigative)
47-69 = M (Mason)
70-100 = T (Townie. This directly influences scum powerroles.)

J = 1-shot Jailkeeper
JJ = Jailkeeper
JJJ = Jailkeeper + Doctor

I = Tracker
II = Cop
III = Cop + Tracker

M = 1-shot Friendly Neighborizer (Friendly Neighbor and Neighborizer)
MM = 2 Seeking Masons (become masons if one targets the other)
MMM = 2 Masons

TTT = 2 Mafia Goons, M9++ Mountainous Rules are in effect
TT = 2 Mafia Goons + Town Doctor
T = 2 Mafia Goons
0 Ts = Mafia Goon + Mafia Roleblocker

The Roleblocker's block goes through when a Roleblocker and Jailkeeper block each other. The Roleblocker can both kill and roleblock. 1-shot roles lose their shot when their target is killed, but not when roleblocked. Players always flip with their original role name.

M9++ Mountainous Rules:
The game turns nightless right before Night 3. At the start of Day 4, the mod posts an announcement to reflect this.

Spoiler: Role PMs
XXX and YYY, you are Mafia Goons. You win when you control the vote or nothing can prevent this from happening. Confirm by posting in the Mafia PT: link

XXX, you are a Mafia Roleblocker. YYY, you are a Mafia Goon. You win when you control the vote or nothing can prevent this from happening. Confirm by posting in the Mafia PT: link


You're a Vanilla Townie. You win when the Mafia are dead.

You're a Town 1-shot Jailkeeper. You win when the Mafia are dead. Once during the night you can target someone. This will both roleblock and protect your target.

You're a Town Jailkeeper. You win when the Mafia are dead. Every night, you can target someone. This will both roleblock and protect your target.

You're a Town Doctor. You win when the Mafia are dead. Every night, you can protect someone from a kill.

Note: your role appears twice in the setup and is therefore not indicative of the existence of a Jailkeeper.

You're a Town Tracker. You win when the Mafia are dead. Every night, you can target someone to see who they're visiting.

You're a Town Cop. You win when the Mafia are dead. Every night, you can target someone to see who they're visiting.

You're a Town 1-shot Friendly Neighborizer. You win when the Mafia are dead.

You can target someone once during the night. At the start of the next Day, your alignment will be confirmed to them and a neighborhood will be opened for you and your target.

You're a Town Seeking Mason. There is another Seeking Mason. You win when the Mafia are dead.

Every night, you may target someone. If you target the other Seeking Mason or if the other Seeking Mason targets you, both of you will be added to the Mason PT.

XXX and YYY, you are Town Masons. You have Daytalk. This is the Mason PT: linkie

Spoiler: Moderator Messages
No result.

You were roleblocked. Despite your attempt to use your ability, you still have 1 shot left.

Your target visited XXX/no one.

Mafia.

Not Mafia.

XXX is confirmed to be Town and added you to this neighborhood: linkie

XXX and YYY, you found each other! You have been added to the Mason PT: link
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Post Post #7709 (isolation #74) » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:04 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

I agree

the good thing is that the doc has no idea what setup he's playing

In post 7702, BBmolla wrote:Maybe give town a named townie.

this was actually what I meant with my rambling yesterday but I decided that was too weak

p-edit: stop reading my mind
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Post Post #7710 (isolation #75) » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:05 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

doc is still never alone though
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Post Post #7712 (isolation #76) » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:25 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

nice
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Post Post #7714 (isolation #77) » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:50 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

I like the current one because you don't have to tell the mafia about it

but yeah it might not be harsh enough
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Post Post #7716 (isolation #78) » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:08 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

I just added the probabilities!

Edited the numbers so about one-third of the setups has a roleblocker.
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Post Post #7717 (isolation #79) » Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:36 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Vengeful 5p lylo/6p mylo is actually a pretty good idea
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Post Post #7719 (isolation #80) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:33 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

town/scum lover setups are shitty for scum in general, but that one is also really susceptible to kingmaking

when it's 4v2v1 and someone on the last mafioso's list is getting lynched, he has no choice but to claim his list

then two others will get lynched which results in 3p lylo in the worst case for town, where the scum that originally claimed gets lynched
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Post Post #7724 (isolation #81) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:20 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 7722, ika wrote:my only problem with that is that friendly neighbor can easily be outed if everyone claims who they are neighbors with

the incentive for everyone to keep their hoods hidden is the best thing about this setup

the friendly neighbor is redundant since he can already confirm himself by claiming

I'd change him to a lonely townie
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Post Post #7731 (isolation #82) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:06 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 7729, PokerFace wrote:Without that problem the game is mountaineous with neighbors and that would favor the scum.

no, there's one player who confirm himself by claiming and two others who can confirm themselves by getting their partner killed
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Post Post #7747 (isolation #83) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:13 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Can the judge stop every nightkill?
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Post Post #7748 (isolation #84) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:14 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Also, what incentive does town have to lynch outside the suspects? It seems like that would only delay the inevitable.
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Post Post #7749 (isolation #85) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:19 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

never mind the second question
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Post Post #7762 (isolation #86) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:53 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

The executioner can only kill suspects who were already lynched once, right? That's pretty cool.
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Post Post #7763 (isolation #87) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:07 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 7759, Goblin wrote:5 vanilla town
1 town executioner
1 town innocent suspect
1 mafia goon
1 mafia guilty suspect

I think this works with reveals. It needs three new rules, though:

-The Mafia nightkill fails on a convicted suspect.
-When an unconvicted suspect gets nightkilled, he's publicly declared to be convicted.
-The Mafia can also convict the guilty suspect.
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Post Post #7767 (isolation #88) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:44 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

I don't think anyone thinks otherwise at this point

But the setup evolved past that, see five posts back
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Post Post #7770 (isolation #89) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:47 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

I'd still get rid off the judge, if only because three unique town roles in an open setup is too much.
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Post Post #7775 (isolation #90) » Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:03 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

It was a quick fix for the game-can-be-decided-by-one-lucky-kill problem, but I have a better solution: the executioner can also choose to protect a convicted player.
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Post Post #7792 (isolation #91) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:51 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Small Street


A setup for 17 players with three mafiosi, initially.


The Mafia start with 85 credits in the bank. They can overdraw, but the town wins if the Mafia have debts when controlling the vote.

During pre-game, which takes half the Day 1 deadline, the Mafia can recruit a fourth member, who is added to the Mafia PT immediately. Depending on if they recruited someone, they have to buy three or four roles, which are immediately distributed randomly among them. The other roles are distributed among the town at the start of Day 1.

Both buying roles and recruiting a fourth member need to be officially approved by a second Mafia member because of their immediate nature. The other pre-game actions take effect when Day 1 starts. The Mafia can perform multiple pre-game actions.

Each night, every member of the Mafia can perform one individual and one factional action.

Roles


Fruit Vendor (can't be performed alongside a factional action) (+1)
Public Vanilla (is publicly confirmed to have no power at the start of Day 1) (0)
2-Shot Neighborizer (0)
Priest (hammers don't count) (0)
1-Shot Gladiator (0)
Delayed Voyeur (gets results in the form of NAR categories) (-2)
1-Shot Follower (idem) (-3)
Even-Night Tracker (-4)
Odd-Night Tracker (-5)
Universal Backup* (-5)
Non-consecutive Night Commuter (can't be performed alongside a factional action) (-5)
Modified Faith Healer (fails if both Faith Healers target the same person, 100% success rate otherwise) (-5)
1-shot Night-Governor (target can't be voted next day) (-10)
Modified Faith Healer (-15)
Restless Spirit (-40)
Vengeful (-40)
Doublevoter (-45)

*gets the remaining powers of the first traditional PR (no Public Vanilla, Restless Spirit, Vengeful, Doublevoter) that dies and hasn't used everything

Pre-game actions


Enable White Flag (hidden) (+20)
Encrypt Day 1 (-1)
Recruit Fourth Member (-80)

Night actions

(factional, each one can be performed once every night)

Roleblock (-3)
Rolecop (-3)
Encrypt Next Day (-1)
No-kill (doesn't take up an action slot, while killing does) (+3)
Turn Townie Bulletproof (target is informed of this) (+10)
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Post Post #7796 (isolation #92) » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:14 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

3v14 with a Mafia Doublevoter, Vengeful, 2-Shot Neighborizer (0 credits)
4v13 with a Delayed Voyeur, 1-Shot Follower, Priest, Public Vanilla (0)
4v13, White Flag enabled, with both Faith Healers (for WIFOM purposes), Fruit Vendor, 1-shot Night Governor (-4, turn one townie Bulletproof, roleblock twice)
4v13, White Flag enabled, Doublevoter, Public Vanilla, 1-Shot Gladiator, 2-Shot Neighborizer (-20, turn two townies Bulletproof, Mafia can also claim to be turned BP)
4v13, White Flag enabled, Odd-Night Tracker, Universal Backup, Commuter, Governor (0)
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Post Post #7797 (isolation #93) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:29 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

09:12


Image

Generate a random number between 1 and 12, take the roles corresponding to that and the two following hours. (11 o'clock is Town Babysitter, Mafia RB, Town Vanilla Cop, for example.) Add five Vanilla Townies and a Mafia Goon.
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Post Post #7799 (isolation #94) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:46 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

It's a nine-player setup.
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Post Post #7837 (isolation #95) » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:19 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Does the town have to keep lynching in cells where scum was found? If so, awkward. If not, a scum lynch on Day 1 or 2 ends the game.
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Post Post #7840 (isolation #96) » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:46 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

That's very scumsided considering the 1/5 odds and the low information after a day 1 lynch. Two options:

1. Turn it into a micro. Everyone flips when a cell is removed.
2. Don't remove cells after town is lynched, just after scum is lynched.

-----

Spoiler: Competitive Mafia
Game Specific Rules

Setup and ruleset based on zoraster's Second Fortnight.


The Leaderboard

  1. New players start with a rating of 250.
  2. This game consists of four rounds, which are two-week-long mini-games themselves. At the start of each round, alignments are rerolled.
  3. All rounds have the same setup, detailed below.
  4. A penalty of -200 will be given to anyone who replaces out in the middle of a round, except if something unforeseeable happened.
  5. A penalty of -100 will be given to anyone who notifies me in a timely manner they want to replace out after that round, so I can line up a replacement.
  6. When a player gets lynched as scum or wrongly accuses someone as town, and their rating is below 0 after that, they are eliminated from the game. A townie can't be eliminated as a direct result of being lynched and scum can't be eliminated as a direct result of their partner being lynched.
  7. The leaderboard isn't updated until the end of a round as not to reveal players' alignments.


The Setup
  1. The setup is two Mafia Goons versus seven townies. The Mafia have daytalk. Plurality rules are in effect. If two players have received the same number of votes at the end of the day, I'll look at the last vote on each wagon. The player who got their last vote first gets lynched.
  2. A round lasts a single Day and a single Night, which in turn last 12 and 2 days, respectively.
  3. If the town lynches a mafia member on Day 1, the players' ratings will change as follows:

    Mafia Goons: -100
    Townies voting mafia: +100
    Townies not voting mafia: -35


  4. If not, the ratings will change as follows:

    Mafia Goons: +20
    Townies voting mafia: +100
    Townies not voting mafia: -35
    Lynched townie: -35


  5. If a townie is lynched, the mafia will via instant night select one of their members to
    Flee
    , thus removing from the game. The identity of the fleeing player is revealed to the town and they cannot be accused. The lynched townie turns into a
    Third Party Poltergeist
    .
  6. Every other Town member becomes a
    Third Party Independent Private Investigator
    and will win or lose for themselves.
  7. PI's have up to 48 hours to make an accusation. At the end of the night, Independent PIs must have submitted at least one accusation to the moderator. The most recent accusation counts.
    If a Mafia Goon was lynched, the PI's can make two accusations of which only one has to be correct.

  8. The remaining mafia member instead of submitting an accusation submits a bribe. If the mafia member bribes a Private Investigator who in turn accuses the mafia member AND there are no other accusations against the mafia member, the Private Investigator is bribed, causing a win for BOTH that Private Investigator AND the Mafia. The lynched/fleeing Mafia player does not have a bribe to use.
  9. The Poltergeist chooses someone to haunt. This doesn't influence anything but the Poltergeist's ranking. If the haunted player is mafia, the Poltergeist gains 135 points.
  10. Ratings change as follows, if the remaining mafia member is not accused by any PI:

    Mafia Goons: +100
    Private Investigators: -20

  11. ...if the bribed investigator is the only PI to accuse the remaining mafia member:

    Mafia Goons: +100
    Bribed Investigator: +100
    Other Private Investigators: -20

  12. ...in all other cases of the remaining mafia member being accused:

    Mafia Goons: -30
    Successful PIs: +100
    Unsuccessful PIs: -20


Sample Role PMs


TownieYou begin as a member of the Town. On Day 1, you may vote in order to lynch a player. If the player you're voting at the end of the Day is scum, you will gain 100 points by the end of the round. If not, you lose 35 points.

At the end of Day 1, you will change from a member of the town to a Third Party Independent Private or, if you're lynched, to a Third Party Poltergeist. If a townie was lynched, one of the mafia will flee and you may accuse a single player of being the remaining mafioso. If a mafioso is lynched, you may accuse two players. If one of your accusations is right, you gain 100 points. If not, you lose 20.

If you're lynched, you lose 35 points and turn into a Poltergeist. As a Poltergeist, you can haunt a player instead of accusing them. If your target is the remaining mafia, you gain 135 points.


Mafia LoverXXX and YYY, you are Mafia Goons. You have day talk and can converse HERE, even after Day 1.

If either you is lynched Day 1, your rating drops by 100 points. If not, you gain 20 points.

If neither you nor your partner is lynched Day 1, you must pick one of you to
flee
. You may do this by typing in bold in your Private Thread <b>Flee: PLAYERNAME</b>. This is instant night, so whenever the hammer is thrown, the player you have marked as fleeing will flee. By default XXX will flee. You may change the fleeing player at any time and as many times as you want up to the Day 1 lynch.

The player who flees will be removed from the game except that he may still chat with you.

If the remaining mafioso isn't accused, both of your ratings increase by 100 points. If not, you lose 30 points.

Bribe

Your accusation is actually a bribe. If you bribe a Private Investigator who in turn accuses you AND that was the only player who accused you, you will still get your points. The fleeing/lynched Mafia player does not have a bribe to use.

Confirm by posting in the Mafia PT.
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Post Post #7844 (isolation #97) » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:26 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 7842, TierShift wrote:Other than that, the score for lynched townie should be as low as a failing PI; if you got lynched, you suck at least as hard as they do. Instead, you can give them the opportunity to guess the scum, with a penalty for getting lynched. In that way, you can still test their ability of scumhunting, even if their town play doesn't look that town.

I think the burden of correct reads is mostly on the reader. Town play never looks like scum play, assuming townies don't deliberately try to be scummy.

But I do like the idea of giving the lynchees a chance to redeem themselves. I'll count it as a bribed accusation, or scum won't have any incentive to try and push lynches on people who are scumreading them.
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Post Post #7847 (isolation #98) » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:03 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

The players in that cell are just going to spout a lot of confbiased bullshit at each other
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Post Post #7853 (isolation #99) » Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:12 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 844, Bicephalous Bob wrote:/in to mod

Game Name: 3v3v3 Nightless
Game Type: Open
Game Size: 9

Optional Caption/Description of Game upon announcement: Everyone is a 1-shot Desperado until one scum faction is eliminated.

In post 845, TierShift wrote:Bob, is there a town faction? Do scum know their partners?

Yes. Yes.
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Post Post #7855 (isolation #100) » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:01 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

No (3v3v3 nightless). Yes (desperado).

I think the best general strategy is half of yours: run people up to L-1 and force them to shoot. Scum have to play along or get shot.
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Post Post #7931 (isolation #101) » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:59 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

I like the idea, but town can get five useless shots just as likely as they can get five powerhouse shots

All shots should be of similar strength

The vanillas don't really serve any purpose other than balancing the game based on chance, which never works out

Scum's power is currently heavily dependent on what roles town get

Scum getting a different bag than town makes it easier for the townies who start with the bags to confirm themselves

-----

10v3

There's one big set, like {Jailkeeper, Weak Neighborizer, PGO, Follower, Desperado (night), Bus Driver, Historian, Roleblocker, ...}

Two three-item bags are randomly filled and given to random townies

One three-item bag is filled by scum and given to a player of their choice, who can be scum or town

There can't be duplicate items within a bag
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Post Post #7932 (isolation #102) » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:00 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Also, players shouldn't be notified they got a bag until the start of the night
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Post Post #7985 (isolation #103) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:00 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

EV doesn't really matter in that kind of setup. Scum effectively decide whether scum or town is lynched, although that's somewhat mediated by the threat of a townie figuring out the scum team. The chances of any townie figuring out the scum team after a town lynch is 3 * (5 choose 3) = 3/10 if I'm not mistaken. I think the actual town win rate will be around 40%, which is pretty good. It's a nice individual challenge and I doubt anyone who plays the setup really cares as much about the balance as they care about personal glory. I don't think it's breakable.

Most of all, it screams for a multiball scum majority variant.
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Post Post #8000 (isolation #104) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:57 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Telling players the identity of players they want dead never ends well

I'd change the goon to 2 mafia lovers and the wolf to 2 werewolf lovers
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Post Post #8104 (isolation #105) » Sat May 09, 2015 6:54 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

I think BBm, like me, didn't read "a target" as "any target". Anyway, the oracles' success is mostly based on luck. You might as well turn them into percentage roles.
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Post Post #8131 (isolation #106) » Wed May 13, 2015 11:31 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Why are tracker and cop in separate tiers? The former is just a weaker version of the latter.
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Post Post #8133 (isolation #107) » Wed May 13, 2015 11:45 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Yeah, never mind that. Some real gripes:

1. All Mafia 2-shot RB + Goon setups are incredibly scum-sided. At worst, it's 2v7 mountainous.
2. Framer and Tailor are a shitty counterbalance because it only counters the cop. They're negative utility in tracker-only setups.
3. Bodyguard isn't a real PR.
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Post Post #8139 (isolation #108) » Thu May 14, 2015 12:18 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 8134, wgeurts wrote:1. The point is, nobody knows that this setup is active.

This makes the setup more scum-sided.

Scum don't know wether there's a PR at all. It's basically a 2v7 mountainous which isn't unbalanced at all.

It is.

The chances of 5 M's being rolled are 1/32. Unlikely, the chance for 4 M's is 1/16. Also low. It's hard to be scum-sided when most of the scum's actions do nothing.

...because there aren't any PRs to mess with.

Especially when they have to decide between a roleblock or a frame as killing costs an action. You can get this same situation in C9++. 3 Goons vs 10 VT's I believe.

Doesn't C9++ fix that with a serial killer?

2. It's only meant to counter the cop, trackers already have the drawback of not knowing wether they targeted town PR or scum.

My point is that when town get an extra tracker scum get a negative utility in return. That's just not fair.

3. And doctors are too powerful. They can save an investigative, they're fine.

There doesn't have to be an investigative. It's certainly not a substitute for a cop.
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Post Post #8192 (isolation #109) » Fri May 22, 2015 4:45 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

That setup punishes people for voting. You're forcing the town to keep a pseudo-vc until a consensus is reached.
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Post Post #8199 (isolation #110) » Fri May 22, 2015 2:04 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

3 Mafia Goons
14 Town Compulsive Visitors

-In the first half of the first Day, all townies send in a ranking of all players. If they don't send in an action, their visits will default to the top living player on their list.
-Instead of performing a night kill, scum can arm a townie for a night.
-Townies visiting an armed player will both arm themselves for that night and die.

Could be terribly swingy, and I'm not sure what the best strategy is, but it counters the playerlist quality problem.
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Post Post #8204 (isolation #111) » Fri May 22, 2015 10:14 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 8200, Ether wrote:
Bicephalous Bob wrote:-Townies visiting an armed player will both arm themselves for that night and die.
What, so a line or circle of townies would all die?

Yeah, or else the game would be breakable.
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Post Post #8207 (isolation #112) » Sat May 23, 2015 4:25 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Part of the point of the setup is that players targeting scum can't be killed, which should be an advatage to stronger townies, but I agree that's probably not enough to balance the setup. Giving town two lynches on even days might do the trick.
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Post Post #8209 (isolation #113) » Sat May 23, 2015 4:58 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

If scum only arm the scummiest townies, the best strategy for town is to visit the towniest players. In reality, it's probably best for scum and town to employ both strategies.
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Post Post #8264 (isolation #114) » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:56 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

gun shop


3 Mafia Goons
14 Town Compulsive Visitors

-On the first Day, all townies send in a ranking of all players. If a townie doesn't send in an action later on, their visit will default to the top living player on their list.
-Instead of performing a night kill, scum can arm a townie for a night.
-Townies visiting an armed player will both arm themselves for that night and die. This means that everyone chained to scum's target will die (this only includes the target if a chain goes full circle).
-Even nights are skipped, resulting in a day/night/day/day/night cycle.

Play advice for town


Don't massclaim your future targets. This will result in at least two deaths every night. The safest base strategy I can think of is to target your less fashionable scum reads, although no fixed public strategy is bound to work.

Be transparent about your reads. The increased lynch accuracy and scum/town-visiting rate that results from transparency
does
outweigh the danger of having a multi-kill because scum outguessed the town's targets.

Keeping a personal pet scum so you can target them at night is comparable to playing like shit in a normal game so you won't be nightkilled. Just get your suspects lynched you waterfowl.

Play advice for scum


Never give up before being lynched. If you completely fuck up and the town decides to keep you around, you'll essentially turn the game nightless.
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Post Post #8292 (isolation #115) » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:25 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 8291, Sméagol wrote:You can say goodbye to the doc if they target mafia once.

nah, the original doc knows they passed it on to another player so scum either have to pass it around among themselves and incriminate each other or pass it to town

other PRs can be given to the nightkill target, although that's fishy too
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Post Post #8303 (isolation #116) » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:42 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

It's probably more fair if you let the townies win individually if they guess right, and I'd expect it's more balanced if you let scum win if one townie guesses right at most.
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Post Post #8304 (isolation #117) » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:43 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Vengeful Simplified


1 Godfather
1 Mafioso
3 Vengeful Townies

Scum have a nightkill and lose if the Godfather is lynched or killed at any time. Townies don't stop being vengeful after day 1.

Came up with this trying to port Vengeful Mafia to EM. Town EV is 47%. The only problem is that the game is more likely to be over after day 1 since vengekilling the Mafioso results in a town loss, but that's also interesting in a way.
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Post Post #8309 (isolation #118) » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:36 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 8303, Bicephalous Bob wrote:I'd expect it's more balanced if you let scum win if one townie guesses right at most.

man
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Post Post #8313 (isolation #119) » Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:49 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

I can't speak for everybody else, but I didn't give any feedback because I'm not the biggest fan of the setup idea. It's triplicate mafia with an extra mislynch, some PRs, no room joints and a tougher town win condition.
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Post Post #8321 (isolation #120) » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:57 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Druids would have the same associative tells as reverse lynchers, I think, since they don't want to lynch the half-confirmed people. A spin-off:

1 mage
3 druids
7 townies

You're a townie. You win when the druids and the mage are dead or gone.

You're a druid. You win and leave the game when the two other druids are dead. You're immune to nightkills. Every night and during pre-game, you have to send in a name of another player, and you receive an anonymous, randomly ordered list of the druids' choices, including your own. You can't send in the same name twice. If you're lynched, all lists you received are made public.

You're a mage. You win when at least 50% of the living players isn't aligned to the town, even if you're dead by then. Every night and during pre-game, you receive a list of the druids' choices. Your lists will be in the form of "Druid A targeted TheIrishPope. Druid B targeted Bob. Druid C targeted Coen," where Druid A, B and C are the same people every night. You have a nightkill which fails on druids.
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Post Post #8326 (isolation #121) » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:28 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

The point is that it gives druids nothing to bargain with. Given that this is only happens once and that the lynched druid's choices are also on there, a mechanical loss seems unlikely.
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Post Post #8336 (isolation #122) » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:47 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Disabling no-lynches doesn't change the fact that the mafia can safely claim after the vig is dead

If both mafia are alive and the vig is dead it's an auto-win for scum, even if townies try to cc the mafia team with their townreads
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Post Post #8348 (isolation #123) » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:53 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

always use the chatmafia.net Faith Healer
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Post Post #8429 (isolation #124) » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:21 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Circular protects are optimal since you'd still be able to draw a simple conclusion from the kills: the dead man's target is town or the person who was supposed to protect him is scum.

Allowing scum to kill themselves would mostly remedy this.
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Post Post #8489 (isolation #125) » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:51 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

A joat inventor is just an inventor, right? Also, an X-shot inventor is a role that can hand out X (usually 1-shot) inventions, not hand out unlimited X-shot inventions. I'd call the real inventor an inventor and come up with an original rome for the backup.
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Post Post #8537 (isolation #126) » Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:53 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

cowboys and cowards

both the quickfoot and the sabbaticaliteurs detract from the core idea imo
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Post Post #8542 (isolation #127) » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:54 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 8539, BBmolla wrote:I guess with sabs I was trying to come up with a way for a player to choose not to dodge

maybe allow people to shoot when they're shot? like:

Cowboys and Cowards


12 Players

4 Mafia Goons

8 Vanilla Townies


  • There are no lynches.
  • Pregame, the Mafia determines a turn order list.
  • The list is publicly posted
  • Every player who dies submits a new turn order list upon death. The new list is the one submitted by the last person to die in a day. It will be posted and take effect in the following day.
  • Each day everyone can perform one action:
    Shoot
    or
    Dodge

  • On a player's turn, they either
    Shoot: PLAYER
    or
    No Action
    .
  • Players have 24 hours to choose an action before it defaults to
    No Action
    .
  • If a shot player has yet to use their action, they will jump to the next spot on the turn order list, giving them 24 hours to choose a response before it defaults to
    No Action
    .
  • A shot player whose turn is over and who didn't dodge will die, as well as any player who is shot twice in one day.
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Post Post #8549 (isolation #128) » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:22 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

all townies crumb the identity of the supersaint in their first few posts, someone is appointed to claim the SS's identity (if they fail they're lynched)

then all players out their crumbs

everyone without a credible crumb gets lynched
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Post Post #8557 (isolation #129) » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:43 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 8548, Something_Smart wrote:
The Blind Leading The Blind2 Mafia Goons
1 Town Supersaint
1 Town 1-Shot Vigilante
5 Vanilla Townies

All town-aligned players know who the Supersaint is (or maybe not the vig if this is too townsided).

all townies crumb the ss's identity in their first few posts, then someone is appointed to out them (if they fail, they're lynched)

then everyone outs their crumbs

whoever doesn't have a credible crumb gets lynched
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Post Post #8571 (isolation #130) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:49 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

not shooting in that setup is clearly suboptimal

In post 8560, Something_Smart wrote:Don't think this would work as if even one crumb was too obvious, the scum would catch on. You've got a point though that it's dangerously close to being breakable. It might mitigate it if the vigi didn't know the SS either. (It would be hilarious if the vigi shot the SS after being annoyed that their wagon didn't lead to a lynch.)

a setup that relies on people being bad at crumbing is broken

not informing the vig doesn't solve anything

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