[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[FakeGod]

Parity Mafia

3 Mafia Goons
1 Parity Detective
1 Doc
6 Townies

Parity Detective investigates two people during the night, and gets "same" result if their alignments (town-sided, mafia-sided) are same, and gets "different" result if their alignments are different.

I think this is a stronger version of a cop, but town only has 1 mislynch in this setup.

[FakeGod]

(In)Sanity Madness!

1 Mafia Detective
2 Mafia Goons
1 Insane Cop
1 Sane Cop
1 Doctor
4 Townies

Mafia Detective investigates 1 player's role every night.

When cops claim, it's highly encouraged for the MD to fakeclaim as well.

Every night, town receives two legitimate cop investigations, but increases chances for MD to find the PRs.

[FakeGod]

Insert Cool Title

1 Mafia Doctor (can save anyone but cannot save someone twice in a row)
1 Vigilante (can choose not to shoot)
3 Townies

(night start)

I played this before and this is hilarious.

Depending on whether mafia saved himself first night and whether vigilante didn't shoot/was blocked, this game gets tricky real fast.

And if vig and maf are the only ones left, it's a tied game unless mafia can save himself that night. (as in he didn't save himself last night)

[FakeGod]

I think all players who knows the code should be able to share it with another person if they want. It's more realistic.
And why medic? Can't you just have 9 crew and select 1 at random to start with the code?

[FakeGod]

and lol, what if toward the end, crew decides to mass claim by citing the code...

OK "CREW" TELL ME RIGHT NOW WHAT THE FIRST LETTER OF THE CODE IS

[FakeGod]

Just have the newbies play Mountainous.

Isn't 2 scum 7 VT a balanced setup?

(it's slightly scum-sided, but meh)

[FakeGod]

Giants vs Humans

2 Giants

10 Humans

Giants are essentially Mafia Goons. They get nightchat and a factional kill.
Humans are basically Town Compulsive Hiders. Except multiple people can hide behind the same person and when you do hide actions that target you still effect you.

So it's basically a game a WIFOM. Town wants to confirm certain players, but they don't want to target the obvious player or they'll get mass-killed by scum. But then scum can anticipate that and shoot the least likely person. And of course Town can die by just targeting scum.

Thoughts? It's a bit scum-sided now, so maybe randomly assign each of the Townies as Even or Odd night? Could add another layer of depth.

Not sure if trolling, but I'll bite.

Obvious Breaking strategy:

Players assign 1 through 12 to each player, and no lynch.

Every player targets the player who has 1 more than their number (i.e. #1 hides behind #2, etc.), and player #12 hides behind #1.

Even with the giant's night kill, only max three players will be killed. Giants have been narrowed down to three players, and it's currently 2 vs 7.

GG.

[FakeGod]

Giants vs Humans

2 Giants

10 Humans

Giants are essentially Mafia Goons. They get nightchat and a factional kill.
Humans are basically Town Compulsive Hiders. Except multiple people can hide behind the same person and when you do hide actions that target you still effect you.

So it's basically a game a WIFOM. Town wants to confirm certain players, but they don't want to target the obvious player or they'll get mass-killed by scum. But then scum can anticipate that and shoot the least likely person. And of course Town can die by just targeting scum.

Thoughts? It's a bit scum-sided now, so maybe randomly assign each of the Townies as Even or Odd night? Could add another layer of depth.

Not sure if trolling, but I'll bite.

Obvious Breaking strategy:

Players assign 1 through 12 to each player, and no lynch.

Every player targets the player who has 1 more than their number (i.e. #1 hides behind #2, etc.), and player #12 hides behind #1.

Even with the giant's night kill, only max three players will be killed. Giants have been narrowed down to three players, and it's currently 2 vs 7.

GG.

Ummm no? cause no one can tell if they were hidden behind?

So giants just kill out of order (say 3-4 away from their numbers) and boom they are safe.

Say giants are numbers 3 and 7.

Hider 2 and hider 6 will die, yes?

Say giants kill "out of order" and shoot (say 3-4 away from their numbers) hider 11. This does not kill hider 11, since hider 11 is hiding behind hider 12, but it kills hider 10 who was hiding behind hider 11.

Now we have hider 2, 6 and 10 dead, and this incriminates players 3, 7 and 11.

Tell me how I'm wrong.

[FakeGod]

hider a behind hider b
Hider b behind hider a
Scum shoot hider a

Solution. Please actually consider these problems when wanting a game with multiple hiders.

I was assuming mod wasn't retarded and auto-fails any cross-hiding attempts.

[FakeGod]

So that includes a big circle of hiding people?

nah hiders are really just acting as weak cops in this scenario

[FakeGod]

I have a new setup proposal for newbie games.

2 Mafia Goons
1 Innocent Child
1 Doctor
5 Vanilla Town

Checklist:

Mafia has more than one member. (Mafia learns to play as a team)
Town has a PR. (Mafia and Town can learn to PR hunt)
Fakeclaim potentials. (Mafia can fakeclaim as doctor)
Playing with a clear/as a clear. (Innocent Child)
No breaking strategies. (i.e. no Follow the Cop)

My simulation shows that this setup has town win rate of

48.5%

(very close to 50%) given that town were to randomly lynch, and mafia were to randomly shoot. (unless doc claimed of course)

[FakeGod]

Doctor is supposed to be on the IC whole game, yes.

The night action sequence is a solved question from the town side of things. Only thing unpredictable is the choices mafia makes.

We should teach newbies to focus on the day game, and teach them that the PRs are dependable things that do certain reliable things during the night. Also, analyzing the night kill choice is still a thing in this setup.

[FakeGod]

Day phase should favor the town, and night phase should favor the mafia.

Traditionally, town should be in their homes during the night, cowering in fear under their beds or whatever.

Town power roles added a new layer of complexity to the game, because mafia now needs to PR hunt etc (I approve), but the new mechanic shouldn't overshadow the original spirit of the game. Not for newbie games, anyway.

Overreliance on the power roles tend to result in mafia games that are no longer about the day phase, but good uses of night actions. While those games can be balanced and even be fun, those games are not the games I want to teach the newbies.

[FakeGod]

The setup includes power roles.

In fact, it has two power roles.

[FakeGod]

We shouldn't try to teach everything at once.

Let's go one step at a time.

[FakeGod]

Why would they follow the clear?

IC isn't a cop. IC is uninformed just like rest of the VT.

[FakeGod]

But people know he's town! So if they follow him they'll be following someone who is 100% town so it's their best bet.

Plus, Doc will be on him so he won't die!

Aha, but I have taken account for this strategy.

If the town follow the IC, then, assuming IC is about good as a random generator at landing a scum, town loses on average. (

48.5%

)

[FakeGod]

It takes one line:

If the town follow the IC, then, assuming IC is about good as a random generator at landing a scum, town loses on average. (

48.5%

)

[FakeGod]

It's not reliant on town power roles to find scum.

[FakeGod]

We can rename the role Innocent Person. I dunno. That's an easy fix.

Who's in charge of newbie queue setups?

[FakeGod]

Fakegod, that setup is shit.

thx brah I knew I could count on u

I do think it suffers from a problem in that it's going to get repetitive for IC's and such, which is probably an actual issue. (no one really wants to play the exact same open setup game after game, do they?)

Ok. That's actually a good point. I don't mind playing the same stuff, but I obviously can't speak for others' preferences.

I do think this setup is an improvement over the one we currently have though.

[FakeGod]

The simulation assumes that town is randomly lynching from the pool minus the Confirmed Innocent.

If doctor is chosen to be the lynch of the day, he claims immediately, and someone else is chosen instead.

Mafia kills at random, unless doctor is claimed, in which case they shoot the doctor, and shoot the Confirmed Innocent next night.

[FakeGod]

1 confirmed innocent, 1 doctor, 1 goon and 1 VT isn't a possible game-state during the day, if we assume that doctor is always protecting the Confirmed Innocent and scum is always killing someone else other than CI, and town always lynches.

[FakeGod]

All assumptions made were for sake of easier simulation.

[FakeGod]

Game theory problems.

Scum will fake-claim doctor some fraction of the time if they get run up to lynch. Doctor will counterclaim in this case, and things follow.

Doctor choosing to protect between CI and someone else is also a game theory problem. In reality, doctors will probably choose to protect the CI only some fraction of the time.

Scum will also only shoot the CI some fraction of the time, obviously.

The assumptions are not perfect, but I hoped that they wouldn't throw the simulation off too much.

[FakeGod]

Game theory problems.

Scum will fake-claim doctor some fraction of the time if they get run up to lynch. Doctor will counterclaim in this case, and things follow.

Doctor choosing to protect between CI and someone else is also a game theory problem. In reality, doctors will probably choose to protect the CI only some fraction of the time.

Scum will also only shoot the CI some fraction of the time, obviously.

The assumptions are not perfect, but I hoped that they wouldn't throw the simulation off too much.

Goddamn it Plessiez

Solving game theory questions is a pain

[FakeGod]

Biggest problem is that successfully protecting someone else doesn't give the town much.

First, doctor have to consider whether the mafia decided to no-kill, or he actually did block a kill.

Second, town is at either 8, 6, or 4 players total remaining after a no kill, town needs to no lynch to maximize their chances of lynching mafia.

[FakeGod]

literally none of those are playable, so uh good job?

I would totally play Enforcer Outpost.

Ehhh Double Cop is probably more fun than that tbh.

Double Cop isn't really a fun setup either.

[FakeGod]

I have a question for you guys.

Say there is no limit on how many people town is allowed to lynch per day. (days are only limited by time)

However, the lynch flips are delayed until the day phase ends.

Is this a buff to town?

[FakeGod]

How much of a buff?

[FakeGod]

2v7 nightless vengeful scum isn't new