[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[Thok]

C9, 7 players

2 Mafia
0-1 Doctor
0-1 Cop
3-5 Vanilla Townie
Day Start

[Thok]

If the SK gets lynched, the deflector is basically immortal. He shouldn't cause too much harm to the town, once he claims (no town role would want to target him).

This isn't quite true-a mafia redirector might beat him head to head. It depends on which has priority, the redirecting or the deflecting-the redirector could redirect the deflection back to the deflector. (Say that ten times fast).

[Thok]

Loser Mafia

2 mafia
11 citizens
day start
nightkills are compulsory
lynching is compulsory (use a suitable deadline rule)
losing side wins

I assume nightkills must be townies. I'd try this.

[Thok]

It's a misere game (apologies for the lack of accents). Typically a decent winning strategy is to play to win and then throw it away on the last turn, but I'm not sure if that works here.

[Thok]

I'd be willing to second a nomination of dethy or double dethy. If somebody wants to do a variation on what actually happened in Twomz's double dethy game (8 cops 2 scum, scum have one shot to recruit a cop on some fixed night) I'd think about nominating that also.

[Thok]

I think the idea behind the tweaks you made could have worked; the (valid) complaint people had was that you made the tweaks while the game was in progress. If you had made that part of the initial setup, people wouldn't have minded playing it.

[Thok]

It seems to me that it might be a good idea to try running some "paced" versions of standard open set ups; take a typical open set up, but requiring a certain rate of participation. Something like

Quick-paced Vanilla
2 Mafia
13 Townies

Each day will last two weeks. Each night will last two days. Everybody is expect to post at least twice a day. If at the end of day a majority is not reached, nobody is lynched.

(I've tossed in a couple extra townies to the standard Vanilla set up to compensate for the shorter days/increased likelihood of no lynch).

[Thok]

It's an initial suggestion; I expect people to tweak it.

[Thok]

I also don't want to restrict to just "make the game go faster" restrictions; I could also see taking a standard open set up and making it a Lights Out game, for example.

[Thok]

What happens when there are 4 Mafia, 2 R and 2 B and no townies left during day? That seems like it should be an auto win for the mafia and an autoloss for the remaining R/B pairs, but it's unclear given what you've posted.

[Thok]

The obvious modification is to give town some information about how close they were to guessing a correct scum group (for example, this group has 1 scum in it).

Of course, this makes lynching a two townies pair very bad for scum.

Alternatively, you might give town a collective night ability to investigate one pair and see if it contains exactly one scum.

Both of these versions shorten the game obviously.

[Thok]

Nominate C9+2

9 players
2 scum
5-7 townies
0-1 cop
0-1 doc

Day Start

(Basically C9 with two extra townies; trying to make town a bit stronger than normal C9).

[Thok]

Nominate "Friends and Enemies, Tweaked".

3 Masons (confirmed innocent, can talk at night)
3 Mafia
6 Vanilla

Night Start

(Perhaps day start and only 5 vanilla would be better.)

[Thok]

Perhaps make it so the deadlines rules are "if town dosn't lynch by deadline, random person is lynched" or something like that.

I'd strengthen this to "If town doesn't lynch, a random target dies".

I actually like this setup; among other things, it's in almost everybody's interest to lie about their role if forced to claim, at least early on.

[Thok]

Pardon my above mistype, you know what I meant.

Why are we creating a "separate" reality for the cop/doc situation? In an actual mafia game that is NOT C9, the cop claims, and the doc protects him. It's the facts of Mafia life.

This isn't a proposal for a diffferent newbie game setup, but for a setup for people to try playing in the Open games queue. It's a variety is a spice of life thing.

(Also, a well timed doc claim can be useful for clearing a protown player, even if you can't protect anything.)

[Thok]

What's the point of the miller in those games?

[Thok]

What's the point of the miller in those games?

Eh, theres a cop. You could put it as a Regular instead.

I know there's a cop. I don't see what bonus there is to throwing a miller into the game just because there's a cop.

[Thok]

The vig is an uncounterclaimable confirmed innocent (and is fairly useful if he can make it to a 1 townie, 1 scum, 1 vig endgame).

It's a setup where no-lynch is more useful at times than usual.

[Thok]

I'd like to see a few more C9+2 run (2 scum, 0 or 1 cops, 0 or 1 docs, 5-7 townies, 9 total players).

[Thok]

Would anybody be interested in trying to develop a good Open set up Time Travel game?

Here's Mini 199 and Mini 170 so you can see some examples fot his set up in practice.

[Thok]

Nominate Yogurt Mafia

3 mafia that cannot talk
2 Masons that can talk at all times
1 Cop/Doc(50%)
6 Vanilla

Who decides the nightkill?

[Thok]

Since the GF has multiple win conditions, I don't really know of a way to test this for balance, but the choice between a 2-4, a 1-2-4, and a 2-2-3 should be pretty balanced. First is in town's favor, second is in lover's favor, third is in scum's favor.

Since when is a 2-4 in town's favor?

[Thok]

And now for something completely different

Lumberjack Mafia
3 Lumberjack Mafia
9 Vanilla townies/Tree Stumps

Day Start

All vanilla townies/tree stumps start as vanilla townies. At any time during the day (but not during twilight or night) a vanilla townie may declare themselves to be a tree stump [I imagine doing something like requiring a vanilla townie to post in thread "I wanted to be a lumberjack" to declare being a tree stump.] Tree stumps cannot be killed, cannot vote, but may post in the thread.

The mafia wins when the number of living mafia is at least the number of living vanilla townies.

Declaring oneself to be a tree stump resets the vote count, and does not send the game to night. Lynching does send the game to night.

Mafia can fake being a tree stump, which will be the same as day suiciding. I'm not sure why they would ever want to.

(I'm not sure whether 3/9 or 2/10 is more balanced for this.)

[Thok]

If the mafia fake being tree-stumps, are they revealed as mafia? IF so, why would a townie ever

not

tree-stump if they were at lynch -1 with someone intending to vote?

When a player attempts to tree stump or fake tree stump, their role is revealed.

As for your comment, I expect in some situations players are likely to tree stump. The only reason I can see for not tree stumping as town is stubbornness/belief in your ability to convince people that you are protown.

I expect this game to play somewhat like Lights Out.

[Thok]

How does fake tree stumping work? Explain. This setup is intriguing.

edit: and comment on my setup .

The only difference between a fake tree stump and a real tree stump is that when the mod comes to the thread, he says "X declared himself to be a tree stump. He was actually mafia." I would still have vote counts reset, allow that person to talk in thread, etc.

Basically imagine there are really 12 people who could tree stump, but 3 of them are a mafia group.

(Quick note: The idea of this role actually comes from here.)

As for your setup, feh, it's starting to get too semi-open for my liking. But balancewise it's decent. (I might drop the various one antitown roles for balance sake).

[Thok]

Since the current versions have ended, I'll nominate putting another C9+2 and another Friends and Enemies into the Open Queue.

[Thok]

@Adel: I like that setup, but you could also tweak it to replace the regular cop with a "Police Chief." The chief has standard investigation ablilities, doesn't know who the psycho cop is, and will "take away his badge" (make him a townie) if he ever targets the psycho cop.

I think at this point the game becomes clearly themed. It's at least unclear that it's theme before this.

[Thok]

Max: why wouldn't the unlyncher just claim his role and target, and then start hunting for mafia? You're basically giving the town a weakened two person mason group.

[Thok]

Transylvania Justice

2 Vampires
5 Stake Wielders
5 Garlic Wielders

Vamps aren't dead unless targetted by both a Stake Wielders and a Garlic Wielder. Stake Wielders can kill townies, Garlic Wielders can not.

(I have no idea if this is balanced, but I'm playing along with the theme.)

[Thok]

For all lovers of vanillaish Open games-Tree Stump mafia (3 Mafia, 9 Tree Stumps) is about to start taking signups in Mini Theme Queue.

[Thok]

Large vanilla with a dash of Koolaid
15 townies
4 scum
1 Odd night killing, unnightkillable SK
(Start with night 1)

[Thok]

What happens if the Kitten tries to vote?

I suspect that the Kitten will be outed as a kitten relatively soon day 1, as I don't think the potential for scum NKing the Kitten is worth the potential loss of participation day 1.

[Thok]

You're using that principle from the other thread?

Eh. I think our collective knowledge needs to trump that rule of thumb.

In other words I don't think 2:2:10 is better.

I was indeed. I'm pondering if the town needs more lynches to control its own destiny.

I beleive the probability of cross-kills is somewhat high. If you are worried about win probabilities, you could just get somebody to run sims on both setups.

[Thok]

I just got my tenure for modding, and I have an idea for an open.

Superhero Vacation

A Smalltown game with a superhero parody theme. The roles are familiar, but the characters are created personally by yours truly.

You probably want Test Theme Market or the Theoretical Game Modding thread. This thread is mostly for games to be run under the Open Games Queue.

[Thok]

Super Standards

12 players.

3 scum teams of 3 will be randomly chosen, and a player can be on multiple scum teams. Anyone on multiple scum teams has multiple win conditions.

Nightless, daytalk.

What happens with 3 alive, 1 Blue scum, 1 red scum, and 1 blue+red scum?

Alternatively, with 3 scum alive, 1 red scum, 1 blue scum, and 1 green scum?

[Thok]

Second situation, I would personally no lynch and let WIFOM-laden bullets decide.

In Nightless???

[Thok]

I've played around with designing this type of setup (with fewer townies actually), but found it dissatisfying that the "advantage" for town of lynching a GF (i.e. double kill) could lose town the game.

As a serious suggestion, how about making it so either godfather being lynched causes both goons to be killed?

[Thok]

Why multiball? What does that imply?

Also Cross-Kills?

Multiball is a bonus you can get on pinball machines; instead of playing with one ball you get (typically) three balls bouncing around.

[Thok]

What's the point of a doc? I guess it's another role to claim.

If I was in this set up, I would suggest doing 10 consecutive no lynches to start the game.

[Thok]

What stopped the kill?

2 Mafia
2 Jailkeepers (protect and roleblock target; if both Jailkeepers target each other both are roleblocked)
3 Townies

Perhaps this needs to be made into a 12 person game, in which case it's 3 Mafia, 2 or 3 Jailkeepers and 7 or 6 townies.

[Thok]

I fear that the town could probably get at least 1 or 2 scum lynches based entirely on who JK'd who. I imagine that this would be very easy to break - just lynching anyone a claimed JK states they JK'd would likely catch scum.

Pretty sure this is a bad stategy, as you don't know if the kill was stopped by a protection or a roleblock. Also, scum could choose to NK, or to fakeclaim Jailkeeper.

[Thok]

With Tree Stump Mafia just ended, there's some discussion of how that setup worked starting here. (As a reminder Tree Stump Mafia was 3 mafia, 9 Tree Stumps.) I'd like to hear people's thoughts about how the setup went, and possible tweaks for future variations on the setup.

[Thok]

114identity

2 SKs
4 town

The SKs know who each other are. The town wins if only SKs remain. Nightless.

What happens at 2 town 2 SK or 1 town 1 SK?

[Thok]

@PeteD: while it's an interesting idea, your game has the problem that a bit under half the people are very worried about placing a second vote. (It's more about the accidentally revealing that you are mafia/alpha then about accidentally lynching somebody.)

Moreover, it reduces to something like assassins in the palace if everybody agrees to Psuedo vote rather than vote, with the idea that everybody will cast a real vote on somebody who is Pseudo lynched.

[Thok]

I don't know whether this idea works or not, and it probably needs tweaking.

Quagmire's Revenge

2 Mafia Goons
1 Cop
7 Vanilla townies
2 Amnesiac Masons: One is the mafia Godfather (investigation immune), one is a protown mason, neither knows which is which. Mafia knows who the Godfather is, but can't talk to him at night. Masons know that each other is a mason, and can talk at night (but don't know their roles.)

It's probably necessary for the theme to work that the Amnesiac Godfather can't submit a night kill. I don't know if you want to be an amnesiac mason.

Edit: it occurs to me that masons need to stop being amnesiac once the goons die for the game to be playable. So that's going to be added in.

[Thok]

It also could work because the Goons will drop some tells regarding the GF (think AITP).

Weird, but possible.

This is what I was thinking (also the whole goons are trying to stay alive thing is useful to remember.)

I'm valuing the godfather as roughly 1/2 a normal mafia member, and the town is fairly weak (remove the masons and the cop and the setup is pure vanilla which seems to favor scum.)

It's designed to be a weird setup.