[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

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6x VT
2x Suicide Bomber
1x Scum Recruiter
1x Goon

The recruiter action is in-thread and public.

Balanced? Interesting?

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10 VT
1 Mafia Loud Arsonist Primer
1 Mafia Arsonist Igniter
1 Mafia Backup

The backup assumes the role of whichever mafia dies first. The mafia may choose each night either to Prime a player for ignition, or to ignite all primed players, killing them as long as the role who does that action is still alive. A player that is primed for ignition receives a PM at day start telling them they were primed.

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Yes. They're basically dead players that can keep talking. Hence the no town power. Although, I suppose mafia could counter-claim a prime claim. I don't know why they would though.

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Do maf have a NK on top of that?

No nightkill, but lynches would be as normal. It mostly fucks with night kill choices.

Fake claim being primed with one of those that are primed (in other words don't prime on a night, this is probably the igniter), proceed to prime everyone, then pop goes everyone when enough are ready because the igniter is a fake innocent.

^This. This is why I think the setup might be interesting.

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^Agreed. I was counting on the one night of missing a kill and the fact that it becomes nightless (or virtually so) when two scum get lynched to make up for that.

Edit: It doesn't work at all as a micro and the possibility of an awful nightless large game makes me not even want to explore that avenue.

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Yeah, that's probably fair. I'm just seeing the alternate case of having no primed town and only an arsonist at like 4 people left, if the scumteam had ignited early, where scum could still feasibly win. I think as a player I would want the option to fight it out.

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^ I like the one-shot addition. The problem with making them fully BP is that the SK can't deal with them at all. Making it take two days to kill them gives mafia a chance when it comes to catching the SK.

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have the second mafia gain BP

And have them start as Mafia Doc/Goon or two goons?

i would do doc/goon first the have other be full BP. and the mafias can deicde who gets doc in pregame.

but i did already get ninjaed

This would work but its also complicated to explain. I think the shared one-shot works just as well. It's not like multiple mafdoc protects were going through anyway.

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^ I think this rewards mafia for lynching town D1, and then SK hunting too. Not sure if that's intentional, but mafia actually doesn't want to hit the real SK on D1.

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In fact, mafia doesn't want to hit the SK until a kill has been missed.

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I think that at anything at a large level on the bus stops setups, optimal play for scum is to spam walls and try to clog up the thread as much as possible. A Day 1 no lynch to lack of consensus would be pretty crippling to town.

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I think it would still be much easier to argue a policy lynch in that setup than in a more traditional setup (even a more traditional mountainous setup). It's not a matter of lynching scum being bad, but that you are less punished by policy lynching. Not that that is inherently bad or inherently good, but it would encourage lynching among players who would be perceived as as less helpful to town. I also think that wouldn't be as prevalent thing in FTF.

As far as these setups go for FTF, I think that the scalability and the simplicity are both powerful factors in their favor. I think all three of these would be good additions to the set-ups for the mafiascum decks, assuming that's feasible.

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Town Macho Cop
Town Doctor
Town Tracker
Town 1-Shot PGO
Macho VT (1-Shot Fireproof)
Macho VT (1-Shot Iceproof)
Macho VT (1-Shot Fireproof; 1-Shot Iceproof)
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT

Ice Mafia Cop
Ice Mafia Goon
Ice Mafia Goon

Fire Mafia Cop
Fire Mafia Goon
Fire Mafia Goon

This seems a bit too townsided IMO. There's a massive potential for missed kills, but even with zero missed kills, you've got three kills per day, max. Assuming they never hit a fire scum that is an earliest possible win on D6, which is very improbable. With a cop, the game lasting that long is unacceptable. At the very least I'd make the scumteams 4 members, possibly turning the mafia cops into rolecops.

Also, does the cop return Town/Not Town or Town/Fire Mafia/Ice Mafia?

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I'd suggest going power light, and switching the cop to a tracker or similar role. Possibly dropping it to 12-3-3. If you decide you want heavy PR's, I think you're much better served making this a closed or semi-open (something like between 0-3 BP townies, chosen at random) to prevent mass-claim shenanigans.

Revenge of the Vengeful

Nightless

4 Vengeful Goons
7 Vengeful Townies

(A role with the Vengeful modifier may, when lynched, kill another player.)

Other possible setups with EV:

5p: 2:3 (47%)
7p: 2:5 (51%), 3:4 (33%)
9p: 3:6 (51%)
11p: 4:7 (41%)
13p: 4:9 (52%), 5:8 (33%)
15p: 5:10 (44%)
17p: 5:12 (52%), 6:11 (36%)
19p: 6:13 (45%)
21p: 6:15 (52%), 7:14 (39%)
23p: 7:16 (46%)
25p: 7:18 (51%), 8:17 (40%)

This sounds crazy fun and seems to get around the boring part of Nightless games. (They take forever after a while.) I'd suggest that on a forum this would benefit from shorter than average deadlines.

The Coalition, v2

3 Mafia Goons
12 Vanilla Town

Each day, rather than lynching a single player, a coalition of some of the remaining players is formed (see below). The non-coalition players are lynched, and their alignments revealed, simultaneously. The Mafia then may kill one living player as normal.

Day 1: 15->11 (4 lynched)
Day 2: 10->7 (3 lynched)
Day 3: 6->4 (2 lynched)
Day 4: 3->2 (1 lynched)

3:12 is 40%. 2:8 (starting from Day 2) is 44%.

I want to play this. This looks awesome.

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Shh. It's a secret. Run Mith's setup for me as a present.

Also, thanks AP.

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I would limit the number of consecutive nights to two. Otherwise, you run the risk of having a huge chunk of RL time with some players not even involved in the game. I know it's annoying to wait 2 days for a thread to unlock only to have died overnight. Imagine the frustration of waiting 6 days for the same information. For symmetry's sake you might want to limit consecutive dayphases as well.

The subduer could be a regular roleblocker without much of a change.

A smaller game has a higher chance of consecutive PR kills as well.

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Assuming random lynches for Shortnight:

1/9- Town Win
4/9- 1 scum lynched
-1/2 town win (2/9)
-1/2 scum win (2/9)
4/9- 0 scum lynched
-1/2 scum shot
-1/2 town win (1/9)
-1/2 scum win (1/9)
-1/2 scum win (2/9)

Scum win in 5/9 games.

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It's slightly scumsided, but not enough to matter. I think Tier might be right about the setup in general, but I don't know a way to add balance to it for town's favor.

Possibly a player who is confirmed town D1? Make it 5 VTs 2 scum with two three person groups to lynch from. If it ends up being too scumsided.

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Challenge: Balanced 5v2v2 setup.

I'm thinking something along the lines of

1x Bloodhound (Town/Not Town Results)
1x JK
3x VT
1x Suicidal Goon
1x 1 Shot BP Goon
1x Suicidal WW
1x 1 Shot BP WW

Both suicidal players die N1.
No possible D2 is unwinnable for town or a game over.

Thoughts? Other options?

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@ Tier- The ability to play hyper aggressively with no remorse? It would be a hyper fast setup anyway. I just want to see if a micro with two two person scumteams could be made into a viable setup.

@ siv- I suppose. Perhaps no bloodhound, or a bloodhound only on night 2.

@ shos- That still doesn't seem balanced. Town lynch leads to 4v2v2 or 3v2v2. Without crosskills even a scum lynch there is a virtually unwinnable position for town. (They should be 2v2v1 or 3v2v1 with only BP left.) There is no motivation for scum to attempt to hide themselves after the first mislynch.