[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Antihero]

@Enigma: Do each of the mafia traitors get an NK?

To Bus or Not to Bus

3 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Survivor
1 Town Tracker
1 Town Jailkeeper
1 Town Vigilante
5 Vanilla Townies

The goons are only told who their 3 partners are (i.e. they don't know who the survivor is).
If the Mafia outnumbers the town and the Mafia survivor is still alive, the goons lose and the survivor wins alone.
Mafia can't NK a mafia member.

[Antihero]

@anti- one mis lynch and the game could be over if the vig mis kills

Assuming the mafia kill goes through+misvig+mislynch, that's 9 alive w/ 4 mafia. LYLO, but not loss (in this case, I doubt the town loses since the mafia are likely to bus someone).

[Antihero]

Town better hope they get a good (or conservative) vig, then.

[Antihero]

it's a jank set up

I'm not familiar with this phrase.

[Antihero]

Cutting the scum team down to 3 players

Do you think this gives the mafia enough misbusses?

[Antihero]

well i would keep it at four, but cap the vig, and add a vt and a town pgo

I'm hesitant to cap the vig because I think any vig will at least half a brain will do it himself (especially around LYLO).

I think you're right in that I should add more town though.

How about this

To Bus or Not to Bus

3 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Survivor
1 Town Tracker
1 Town Jailkeeper
1 Town Vigilante
1 Town Paranoid Gun Owner
8 Townies

If the mafia outnumbers town and the survivor is still alive, the goons lose and the survivor wins alone.
Mafia is not allowed to NK one of their own members. Mafia also must NK every night.
Vigilante is not compulsive.
Town must lynch every day.

[Antihero]

Actually, I don't care for the role of PGO. What should I put in instead...

[Antihero]

Sorry, shotty, I still hate the role of PGO.

How about just making that a bulletproof townie?

[Antihero]

Oh, ok. I don't care for the role of one-shot vig, either. I prefer regular ones. But I like your odd/even night idea.

How about this?

To Bus or Not to Bus

3 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Survivor
1 Town Tracker
1 Town Jailkeeper
1 Town Odd Night Vigilante
1 Town Even Night Vigilante
8 Townies

• If the mafia outnumbers town and the survivor is still alive, the goons lose (i.e. - the survivor wins alone)
  
• The mafia can't NK one of its own members.
  
• Mafia have to kill every night.

I don't know, is this a stupid idea? I thought it would be interesting to have kind of a game-within-a-game (the mafia has to determine who to bus), but please tell me if no one would actually want to play this game.

[Antihero]

What is a Mafia Survivor? Is it a survivor that appears to be a goon for the goons?

Exactly (but since this is an open set-up, the goons know one of them must be the survivor)

[Antihero]

[*]Mafia have to kill every night.

This is going to create some conflict. Not all of the mafia have the same motivations, but you need them to agree on a kill. Why is their kill mandatory?

Suppose there are two mafia members left, and one is the survivor. Each will insist that the other perform the kill because of the tracker or PGO, and they will probably prefer different targets. Because there are two of them, they can't vote to decide. Would you threaten them with an automatic loss if they don't agree?

EDIT: Also, if the mafia survivor is about to be lynched, they should have some in-game incentive not to reveal* who their remaining partners are. An alternate win condition, maybe.

* And I don't mean just claiming their role and naming buddies. The survivor simply has no incentive not to drop a strong hint if they're already being bussed, like "my scumlist is [buddy1], [buddy2], [buddy3]." Doing this may even intimidate their partners out of bussing them, so there is a potential incentive for them to do that.

Ouch, good point.
hmmm....

[Antihero]

It wouldn't work, since the town could just claim who they AREN'T or ask everyone in the QT to post a certain phrase or vote for the person directly below them on the list, or say a certain phrase in their opening post, or all vote for the mod, or post a certain number (like the difference between your position and spot 12). Yeah, broken.

Yeah, I see what you're saying, but shotty's idea is intriguing.

How about making some scum neighbors?

3 Town Blind Neighbors
4 Townies
1 Cop

2 Mafia Blind Neighbors
1 Mafia Roleblocker

EDIT: Hmmm... then there's not that much point to the neighborhood, is there?

How about giving the neighbors an ability, like a vig kill?

2 Town Blind Neighbors
6 Townies
1 Cop

1 Mafia Blind Neighbor
1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Godfather (shows up innocent to cop, not NK immune)

Blind Neighbors have a collective vig kill (not compulsive). If either of the town neighbors die, the ability is lost.

[Antihero]

I would ditch the sydney carton role. I would also add a vigilante and a some kind of protective role (roleblocker or doc).

EDIT: I disagree with gandalf. Unless there's only 1 scum left, a tracker is WAY harder than a cop (because in order to get a good result, the tracker has to guess not only who's scum, but which scum is doing the kill).

[Antihero]

Neutral survivors suck.

Feeling Lucky Open

Mafia:
2 Goons

3rd Party:
1 Converter (N1 must decide if they want to be sided with the town or the mafia. If he chooses to side with the mafia, he becomes a Stalker. If he decides to go town, he becomes a Doctor.)
1 Convertee (If the converter chose to become a stalker, the convertee becomes a town deputy (He will become a cop if the town cop dies). If the converter decided to become a doctor, then the convertee becomes a lawyer. If the converter dies D1, the convertee becomes a

neutral survivor

serial killer)

Town:
1 Sane Cop
7 Vanilla Townies

Godfather removed

Lawyer is able to make one of his mafia buddies appear innocent.

How about this?

[Antihero]

Also, should the choice for mallow's game come on night 0?

Really bored but here's my new idea

Every Man has a secret mafia

town

10 Men with secrets

mafia

Two Mafia black mailers- At night they get to choose one person to black mail, thus turning the person they black mailed into mafia with them.
If the mafia party how three people and it is night, then after the after the mafia chooses who to blackmail, they then also choose which of their members to kill(cannot being the same as th person black mailed)

Mafia have to kill one of their own?
I would hate to be mafia.

I also don't care for games where alignment changes in the middle of a game.

[Antihero]

Cooperation

1 Mafia goon
1 Mafia seer

1 Werewolf goon
1 Werewolf cop

2 Town bulletproof
2 Town scratchproof
8 vanilla townies

Mafia and Werewolves win together if they can eliminate the town.

I really like the scum investigative roles; not so much the last sentence, though.

[Antihero]

What's a cream puff?

[Antihero]

Ok here it goes! BEST IDEA EVER!!!!

I couldn't Come up with a name Mafia

This is a 12 player game

town

1 Super Cream Puff/JOAT(No Kill)
1 Doctor/Cop/Vig/First Mason
1 Nurse/Deputy/Back up vig/Second Mason
1 Hider
5 Vt's

mafia

1 BP Godfather
1 Role blocker
1 Bus Driver

Ok so if the Cream Puff is selected then the Vig will not be in the game, so there will only be 2 NK's

THOUGHTS!?

Ditch the hider and mafia bus driver. Also forget making the GF bulletproof.

[Antihero]

Vengeful mafia is a broken role. I don't see why you should punish town for lynching scum.

[Antihero]

How about this emp?

Empking's Smith

2 Mafia

2 Maniacs (mafia that kill w/ knives)

1 Bodyguard (protects from Maniacs) OR Bladesmith (detects Maniacs and bodyguard)
1 Doc (protects from Mafia) OR Gunsmith (detects mafia and cop)
3 Townies

[Antihero]

My definition of a broken role is a role that makes the game less fair or enjoyable.

I like the idea of an open game with a bunch of smiths, but it seems like mafia would be at a disadvantage if 2 gunsmiths were chosen.

[Antihero]

Oh, I see. Gunsmiths get positives on other gunsmiths.

[Antihero]

Well this one was inspired by mayo clinic

Do you think mayo clinic has some kind of design flaw in it that needs to be fixed?

Empking's Jester

2 Mafia

1 Jester

1 Vig
1 Doc
3 Townies

Jesters = ultimate suckage

[Antihero]

New Rule: People, don't put your name on a setup. It's sickening.

Massive Poisoning

2 Poisoners
1 Roleblocker
1 Miller

1 Cop
1 Poison Doctor
1 Roleblocker
1 Miller
1 Universal Backup
6 Townies

Notes

Mafia Miller investigates innocent.
Town Miller investigates guilty.
Both poisoners can poison within the night.
Universal Backup will be told that they're townie. They only replace Cop, Poison Doctor or Roleblocker.
Poison Doctors cures people from Poison.
Poison automatically kills its target the next day.
Mafias talk during the Night.
Cops are Sane. Either get 'Innocent' or 'Guilty' Verdict.

Mafia Miller --> Mafia Godfather
Also mafia is overpowered, but I really like your idea of a poisoner game.

[Antihero]

Town miller is also a crappy role. How about this?

1 Mafia Poisoner
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Goon

1 Tracker
1 Poison Doctor
1 Town Poisoner
1 Universal Backup
6 Townies

[Antihero]

Of course it's going to be swingy, it's a game based on a killing role.

How about making it a large to account for that?

1 Mafia Poisoner
1 Mafia Backup Poisoner
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Godfather

1 Day Poisoning Serial Killer (no nightkill, poison resolves at the end of the night proceeding the day when the kill was submitted, immune to 1 attempt on his life per night)

1 Town Poisoner
1 Doctor (cures poisoned people)
1 Surgeon (prevents NKs, not poison)
1 Tracker
1 Watcher
1 Universal Backup
10 Townies

[Antihero]

Yes

[Antihero]

Replace that Faith Poison Healer with a Town Poisoner (I love town killing roles, so no, I won't stop harking on that), and I'd /in for that setup.

Also, allow the doc to cure both poisoned people and... NK victims?

I still like my Surgeon/Doctor combo better.

[Antihero]

I was under the impression that the mafia had an NK.

Do they? If not, I think the Mafia GF needs to be changed.

[Antihero]

No, I just put godfather in there for fun (there's no cop, so for all intents and purposes he's a goon).

If the Mafia has no NK, I think I'd give scum a role cop.

[Antihero]

Actually, I think I like that better anyway.

Massive Poisoning

1 Mafia Poisoner
1 Mafia Back-Up Poisoner
1 Roleblocker
1 Role Cop

1 Day Poisoning Maniac (immune to 2 doses of poison)

1 Poison Doctor
1 Town Poisoner
1 Town Roleblocker
1 Tracker
1 Watcher
1 Universal Backup
11 Townies

Notes

Night Start
Universal Backup will be told that they're townie. They only replace Tracker, Watcher, Poison Doctor or Roleblocker.
Poison Doctors cures people from Poison.
Poison automatically kills its target the next night.
Mafias talk during the Night.
Watchers can tell who visited their target's house.
Trackers can see who their target targetted.
Maniac can poison one person during Day Phase, which kills the target during the next night phase.

[Antihero]

Now we just need to find someone willing to mod it.

[Antihero]

Shotty, pink doesn't show up at all on sepia. I was about to ask you where the ice goons were...

[Antihero]

Where do you submit open ideas for review?

[Antihero]

You can attempt to put a post in a Set-Up Review thread, then get someone to review the stuff, and so on and so forth.
Get yourself a back-up mod. xD

I'm already in the Large normal queue, and I don't want to mod two large normals at once. And I actually want to play the game.

I thought we had some system of approving open setups. Am I just imagining things?

[Antihero]

Massive Poisoning

1 Mafia Poisoner
1 Mafia Back-Up Poisoner
1 Roleblocker
1 Role Cop

1 Day Poisoning Maniac (immune to 2 doses of poison)

1 Poison Doctor
1 Town Poisoner
1 Town Roleblocker
1 Tracker
1 Watcher
1 Universal Backup
11 Townies

Notes

Night Start
Universal Backup will be told that they're townie. They only replace Tracker, Watcher, Poison Doctor or Roleblocker.
Poison Doctors cures people from Poison.
Poison automatically kills its target the next night.
Mafias talk during the Night
Mafia gets a Soloist kill (that is, if there's only 1 mafia member remaining, that member gains the power to nightkill)
Watchers can tell who visited their target's house.
Trackers can see who their target targetted.
Maniac can poison one person during Day Phase, which kills the target during the next night phase.

[Antihero]

Would the maniac have to declare their kill? I assume it's an SK wincon.

They would do it by PM to the mod, not in thread.

The poison doctor only cures poison the night that the target would die? Or does it protect during the night of poisoning as well?
It protects during the night of poisoning as well.

[Antihero]

thoughts?

Janitor = crappy role

Nay

[Antihero]

There's a setup LIKE that already called polygamist that has four pairs of lovers and one group of 4 mafia that are all lovers with each other. It's VERY hard for mafia. Doesn't mean I didn't win it though.

So the idea has been done, so you know.

No. Treacherous lovers are where the lovership (is that a word?) is half town, half scum. So, pretty much, it's like polygamist except for town don't know if their lover is also town at the beginning.

Tragedy, that's actually a pretty interesting variation on a kind of hackneyed mechanic.

[Antihero]

CHK MAFIA

TOWN

1x Cop
1x Hated Miller (req's 1 less vote to lynch)
7x Vanilla

MAFIA

1x Godfather w/ inv-immunity
1x Goon

SCUM2

2x Werewolf

Why do the werewolves have an advantage?

[Antihero]

CHK MAFIA

Edit 1

TOWN

1x Cop
1x Hated Miller (req's 1 less vote to lynch)
1x Vengeful Lover (If miller is lynched/NK'd, Townie is given one day/nightkill then suicides in the same phase)
8x Vanilla

MAFIA

1x Godfather w/ inv-immunity
1x Goon

SCUM2

1x Werewolf w/ 1-time BPV
1x Werewolf

DETAILS

- Miller and Vengeful Lover are sent Vanilla Townie Role PM's

First, let's come up with a new title.

Next, let's even the scumteams.

Friends, Enemies, and that other A-hole

TOWN

1x Cop (gets "guilty" on mafia and wolves and "innocent on town")
1x Hated Miller (req's 1 less vote to lynch)
2x Vengeful Lovers (If one lover is lynched/NK'd, Townie is given one day/nightkill then suicides in the same phase)
8x Vanilla

MAFIA

1x Godfather (1 shot bulletproof)
1x Goon

SCUM2

1x Alpha Werewolf (1-shot bulletproof)
1x Werewolf

How about this?

[Antihero]

Who to Protect Mafia V2

1 Doctor/RoleCop(Uses Both abilities each night)
1 Iatrophobic Townie(If protected he kills the doctor)
2 Macho Townies
3 Vanilla Townies

1 RoleBlocker
1 Goon

The townies are not told what they are.

What are you going for here, shotty?

To me, I would hate to be a doc in this situation, because instead of playing an optimal doc game (protect the most townish), you have to guess which townie isn't going to kill you. Add on the fact that the townies don't actually know their roles and I don't care for this setup.

[Antihero]

He's a role cop...

OK, fine but my original question remains unanswered.

Usually when someone proposes an open game, they think "I'd really like to see [whatever] in a game". In Crazy's it's a simple dilemma: should the mafia kill the confirmed town at the risk of being outed by the watcher; and should the watcher spend his night action on the confirmed town knowing this? It's WIFOM: the watcher and mafia are outguessing each other. While there is that twist of WIFOM, though, optimal gameplay will still most likely be rewarded with victory.

Open games could also be centered around a particular role, like Tragedy's poisoner setup (what happened to that anyway?). Personally, I think Poisoner is a really cool and underused role, so that's what we were going for with that proposal.

When it comes to nightactions, this setup seems less of a mafia game and more of a guessing game. Optimal gameplay for the doc here would be to protect the most townish, which could end up being a macho townie (that means a dead townie) or the PGO-like role (which means death for the doc). Compounding to that, the fact that the townies don't know their roles means that the PGO-like role can't even modify his gameplay to be more protown or claim. So, playing the doc/cop role relies less on strategy, reads, and skill and a lot more on luck.

[more to come in next post]...

[Antihero]

[continue]...

If you want to setup a minefield, you should make it fair and force the scum to navigate through it as well. I suggest maybe using bombs and weak roles.

Whatever is it though, I think there should be a purpose to all these open game proposals.

[Antihero]

^ horrible

^constructive

To my understanding, the electrician is pretty much a jailkeeper. You also added more players. While there's nothing inherantly bad about that, sometimes less is more, which I think is the case here. EDIT: Since this game is probably going to have a bunch of mafia misfires, a larger version of this game will probably drag on too long. That's why fewer players is better here.

[Antihero]

Hi all...I know I don't qualify to mod yet and my setup is unbalanced and sucks in the first place, but I decided to put this on anyways (Bvoigt did not approve). If you have any ideas or thoughts on improvements or anything, just send me a PM. Here it is, for Police Squad Mafia:

x1

One-Shot Publishing Cop

(or sane

Flavor Cop

?)
x1

Sane Cop

x1

Insane Cop

x1

Naive Cop

x1

Paranoid Cop

x2

Mafia Goon

(or x1

Goon

x1

Roleblocker

?)

Cops don't know what sanity they are, and they are not revealed on death. If I do decide on a Flavor Cop, they will learn the players sanity (maybe I should make it One-Shot). Any thoughts?

Also, this is very close to dethy.

[Antihero]

Since we've moved from 12 to 13-player minis, would setups like C9++ benefit from an extra townie?

C9++ already is town biased. No

[Antihero]

@Salmonella:

I think having 4 votes is cumbersome, as having even number of votes tends to be (I'm assuming it takes 3 votes to lynch, right?). I say give the three "elected" people one vote each. The president already has the upper hand in the fact that he gets to choose who his cabinet members will be, I don't think he needs to be a double voter.

Other than that, I think it's pretty cool...

[Antihero]

So I just got finished running Scumhunter's Speed. Of the 6 times it was run, town only won 1 time.

Right now, this is the setup

3 Scum
5 Town

"Nightless", kind of
If there's a mislynch Day 1, scum kill one of their own. If town lynches correctly, scum get a standard NK night 1 and it becomes white flag.

I think the scum-sidedness of this setup comes from the even number of players on days 1 and 2. Because bussing is so harshly penalized in this setup, town pretty much have to have every townie on a scum wagon in order to lynch correctly.

My suggestion

3 Mafia
6 Townies

Standard nights and scum get a factional kill.
A Day 1 scum lynch will force scum to pick someone to be a bulletproof innocent child. This player must have been on the lynch wagon the previous day.
A Day 1 town lynch will force scum to kill one of their own for that night only.

[Antihero]

A few things:
1) Just to be clear, who has a kill and who doesn't?
2) The "SK" is actually a survivor. This is a universally hated role, and for good reason: it sucks.
3) You have an awful lot of roleblocking capabilities. You have a plan for how to resolve all those in the event of a roleblocking chain?

[Antihero]

Oh, yeah, wake. For it to be an uninformed majority, it does have to, in fact, be a

majority

. This is less a game of mafia and more a game of dodge ball.

Not sure how to fix that besides tell you to pare down the factions... :p

[Antihero]

that sounds like scumhunters speed 8p

yeah, except scumhunters speed 8p is awful and horribly scum sided

[Antihero]

So I think it is time to pull Hard Boiled as an approved open setup.

In games where town has picked a tracker in the tracker/vig slot, they are now 5-0. In games where they picked vig, they are now 0-3. Looking at the setup with the tracker, its getting close to a broken stage for town with coordination and cooperation from town PRs. Past runs have shown this, with town being able to string together close to forced wins, especially with an early scum lynch.

What if we were to change it to a JOAT with 2-shot Track and 1-shot Vig? Or just to make it a limited shot Tracker?

The tracker's not the role that needs to be nerfed, it's the hider. The town performs better in tracker games because the vigs proved to be liabilities, not because the tracker is OPed.

Making the hider one-shot or turning it into a weak cop might balance it.