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This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
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Siveure DtTrikyp
Siveure DtTrikyp
Mafia Scum
Siveure DtTrikyp
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2285
Joined: June 21, 2012
Location: Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Post
Post #5162 (isolation #0) » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:21 am
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
In post 5160, Rainbowdash wrote:Okay so its time to remove Fight or Flight (broken) from open list.
Calling all seven players ABCDEFG, the following plan gives town about an 80% win rate playing randomly
-Day One-
A is lynched
-Night One-
B shoots C
C shoots D
D shoots B
EFG do nothing
-Day Two (If Nec)-
No Lynch
-Night Two-
E shoots F
F shoots E
Only G is alive
Following this plan town loses if
G is scum (14%)
E and F are scum together (5%)
In a situation where one of E/F are scum and G is town it becomes a scorched earth draw or town win as endgame would be Scum (vig shot left) vs Town (Vig and Commute left).
Even if its modified to any 1v1 is auto scum win, scum only increase win odds by 7% randomly playing.
For the BCD pool... if one is scum (B)
B is forced to commute or die, D dies by C, B is caught as not following plan and lynched leaving to EFG endgame with possible swap of one letter for another
If two of BCD are scum (BC)
-Two scum are confirmed if scum doesnt shoot other scum.
-Assume BD die
-CEFG alive
-Lynch C
-No action
-See EFG endgame
Broken game is broken.
Something seems wrong... I'm assuming you can't do both actions in one night. Thus, if one scum commutes to avoid a death, then he's not shooting anyone.
In the EFG endgame, if one of EF is scum, he commutes and it is unknown to G which one commuted. This is essentially the same as doing a normal 3p LyLo.
If one of BCD is scum, (B) he has to commute or die. If it is B, and B commutes, then C stays alive, as well as B, right, leading to a CEFG endgame.
If two of BCD are scum, (BC), then B commutes, leaving both B and C alive. B is confirmed scum, but that leaves a CEFG endgame.
Post
Post #5426 (isolation #6) » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:50 am
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
In post 5423, callforjudgement wrote:If both nominated players are scum: scumteam's choice of 4:2 with no confirmed players, or 3:3 with one confirmed scum;
If the town was right only about the scummiest: scumteam's choice of 3:2 with one confirmed town, or 4:2 with no confirmed players;
If the town was right only about the second-scummiest: 3:3 with no confirmed players;
If the town was wrong about both players: instant scum win
I think if town is right only about the scummiest scum just shoot the player nominated to shoot?
Post
Post #5438 (isolation #7) » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:50 am
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
Getting three crosses in a row seems really hard, because you also have to lynch a scum if scum defend against it.
Also, I think it very possible scumhunting goes out the window later on. Hmm, town need to lynch one scum day 1 or 2, or they're basically screwed. And even so, they need to lynch the other scum day 3 probably, or just take a forced lynch on somebody who the mafia can probably choose.
Hmm, you have all the weird interactions of scum not wanting to lynch somebody who would lead to their lynch later on.
Interesting, but probably very scumsided.
Pedit: Cheery, what? You can't force a win. Whenever I try to win I always have to coax the other person into giving me the win by not forcing it.
Post
Post #5445 (isolation #8) » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:26 am
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
Saulres, town can go the opposite corner day2 - it forces scum to then pick a side, not one of the other corners, as otherwise town win on three crosses. At least so long as it isn't still 2 scum.
Post
Post #5448 (isolation #9) » Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:27 pm
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
In post 5442, Empking wrote:as long as scum have hit a scum earlier then it doesn't matter that the scum can win (via tic-tac-toe) next turn as long as town hit the final scum this turn.
Post
Post #6052 (isolation #21) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:17 am
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
20/4/4/1?
Bastard masons?
It's broken by massclaim. Sure everyone has this cool power but massclaim breaks it so hard. Unless you run it 25 and give the scum knowledge of which roles aren't in there.
Post
Post #6056 (isolation #22) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:30 am
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
It's semi-open, and really I don't get the appeal.
Docs and Blocks looks cool, but mafia could get screwed if they make it to end-game and they for instance, kill all the docs and they're the only claimed doc.
Post
Post #6144 (isolation #24) » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:00 am
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
In post 6126, IceGuy wrote:Not a setup, but an idea for a mechanic I've been kicking around:
Every day, townies can select whether to learn a new skill or not. If they decide to learn, they get a 1-shot power (cop, doc, RB, JK, ...) for the night.
Scum gets as many NKs as the number of townies that are learning, but can only use them on the townies that are learning. So if three townies decide to learn a new skill, scum can name three players, and if any of those three players are actually learning, they die. Also, kills resolve before any other actions, i.e. kills come with an RB.
About this, make cop require a full night to learn, so you can only use it the following night?
Post
Post #6183 (isolation #27) » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:26 am
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
umm, you're making several assumptions.
1) You hit the strongman. if this doesn't happen town is kinda screwed, so I don't think people would go this path.
2) the knights are able to co-ordinate their protects. Even if they are, i doubt one of them protects a vt.
3) Scum doesn't counterclaim. If this strategy is so breaking, why would scum not counterclaim?
Post
Post #6386 (isolation #33) » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:22 am
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
I was thinking of this mechanic. Everyone can choose their own PR, but taking a PR gives someone else a negative role modifier that counters the role you picked. Eg, cop paired with miller, macho with doctor, ninja with tracker.
The alternative was that every pr only works on vts.
Post
Post #6388 (isolation #34) » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:46 pm
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
Problems I think with it are that with enough possible roles there's no reason to go vanilla, and a 10 pr town is pretty much gonna win unless they all get the exact same thing. Espeically if they massclaim negative utilities day 1.
The other is that the counter-role makes some roles useless - a cop doesn't really do much when you have 3 of them and every guilty is a 50/50 chance. And tracker in this is weird.
Possible solutions - make the negative modifiers hidden (Meh on this)
Have multiple negative roles per positive role, so 1 cop = 2 millers (bit overkill probably)
A vanilla remains full vanilla.
Post
Post #6499 (isolation #36) » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:08 pm
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
For N's setup, have mafia choose 5 people of whom a random 3 non-werewolves are cleared, and werewolves also pick 5 people of whom a random 3 non-werewolves are cleared.
If either side picks one of their own then that person is guaranteed to be chosen.
Post
Post #6698 (isolation #38) » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:32 am
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
In theory?
Even if the two scum get paired with each other, if they kill and everyone reports recieving a fruit, then you KNOW the two scum are next to each other in the circle.
Post
Post #6780 (isolation #39) » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:57 am
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
I've an idea
It involved mutliple treestump lynchers.
1 of these is on mafia.
Edit: Okay, so to put this better.
Normal setup (possibly just some mountaineous) +
2x treestump lyncher on town.
1x treestump lyncher on mafia.
Each lyncher has to be the first to lynch their particular target to win.
Where my thoughts went after seeing the guy who suggested spectators to a game.
Last edited by Siveure DtTrikyp on Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Post
Post #6793 (isolation #40) » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:52 pm
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
That sounds hilarious. And also somewhat silly. It looks like scum can win n1 if one of the people they have for scum is lynched. Oh god. It seems simple if town can peg everyone who scumpicked a particular player as town.
In post 6792, saulres wrote:Think of each player as a mod running the same open setup with the same player list, which includes themselves.
The exception is, instead of randomizing the roles, they assign them to the players of their choice.
Each player's goal is to end the game by coming to an end-game resolution created by someone in their faction.
What's the incentive to scumhunt / lynch? Players are both scum and town simultaneously? What?
It looks like you have to lynch the scummembers chosen by a town-mod. The mod-game is the one that really matters, beyond that it doesn't.
In post 6794, Vi wrote:Night-kill trivializes setup. Scum should win on Night 2 unless both scum are dead before then by making themselves Town in their own distributions and NKing their distribution's scum.
You choose your setup before you know that you're scum, or even who your scumpartner is, so that could maybe alleviate this problem a bit.
But the game seems like it can be unwinnable for town if everyone but one scum picks player A as scum and that scum picks any pair at all.
Post
Post #6846 (isolation #45) » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:25 am
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
Okay, more issues with we need a fifth.
Hypothetically, if one town becomes obvious everyone else wants themselves to be lynched.
If BOTH town become obvious town, then you get no lynch because there's no way scum would lynch anyone because then they lose.
Possibly make it so that no lynch is 2 votes, and if no-lynch occurs then both town must kill someone and they must both target scum to win (if they target the same scum it becomes a 2v1 endgame).
Math on this is 5/9 that town is shot and lose, 1/9 that both scum die, and 1/3 that one town dies. The idea is if it happens immediately you just shoot the guys on the no-lynch.
Also, cult we need a fifth.
3 town
1 cult martyr
If town is lynched, martyr does nothing.
If the martyr is lynched, another person is inspired by his sacrifice and becomes cult (martyrs choice).
Oh, wait, that's a 33% chance of town win... ummm. W/E. Somebody else come up with stuff. And I didn't do any numbers on the first one. Uh, yeah.
Post
Post #6998 (isolation #50) » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:04 am
Postby Siveure DtTrikyp »
It depends on how much power the neighbourhood gives. 7/2 mountaineous is fairly scumsided, right?
So if you get two/three town players who get a good read on each other d1 they get neighbourhoods with each other and they basically publicly state "don't join our neighbourhood." Anyone who does gets lynched, and you've got pseudo masons for a day.
Wait, does the NKed person's wish get granted? Say A targets B, B targets D, C targets A and D targets B, and A is Nked. How do the neighbourhoods resolve?