[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Shadow Dancer]

They essentially mean nothing. It's essentially a vanilla/mountainious game.
The colours allow town to get confirmed townies out of every scum lynch.

[Shadow Dancer]

How do you return results for a roleblocker? I.e.
What order are the roleblocks resolved?

That's simple, I guess (though not as simple as Faraday makes it to be - because a RBed RB cannot RB any one else):

case I)

RB block in any kind of cycle - it doesn't matter because all actions are irrelevant.
examples:

quantum state case

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! <=> !

undecidable paradox case

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! -> ! -> !
^---------´

case II)

RBs block in a chain with a beginning and an end - starting at the beginning all odd blocks take effect, all even ones are blocked.
examples:

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O -> X -> O

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O -> X -> O -> X

case III)

Branching chains - obviously branching works only in one direction because any one can be targeted by multiple RBs but every RB can only have one target.
Solution is simple: If any chain before the branching point has odd length the branching point RB is blocked, else he isn't.
examples:

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O -> X \
        > O -> ...
O -> X /

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O -> X \
O ------> X -> O -> ...
O -----´

case IV)

Finally if a chain flows into a cycle... You resolve it like case III) but really don't even need to as of case I)
examples:

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O -> X -> ! <=> ! 

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O -> X <=> O 

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O -> X -> O -> X 
     ^---------´

golden rule:

always start at the loose ends and just ignore cycles.

What is mouch more interesting is the same with busdrivers (I was in a marathon with multiple busdrivers... ReaperCharly mod? I am not sure... But his action resolution was rather arbitrary. The probelem is that busdrives can branch both ways and are not commutative...)

That being said: I don't I really like either idea. Seems way to easy to break it and/or to shut down a scumteam as town.

[Shadow Dancer]

You should addd PRs whose effectiveness does not depend on the existence and usage of PRs on the other side, i.e. rather cop, vig or kill protection/vengeful roles rather than watcher, tracker or roleblocker.

[Shadow Dancer]

Bodyguard cannot selftarget and dies, too, if there's a kill attempt on his target, right?

[Shadow Dancer]

EBG 11

1x Town Elite Bodyguard (kills attacker)
8x Town Townie

1x Mafia Goon
1x 1-Shot Mafia Role Cop

Simple is better

I agree, simple is better
The upside of this setup is definitely that it allows town to keep pro-town players alive... But I think the role cop is too strong. With a kill and a rolecop scum can scan a town of only 9 inital players incredibly fast and hitting the guard with the kill is a rather lucky conincidence (unless the guard could self-target in which case you could just make him a bomb anyway). It's definitely more in town's favour than ) 9:2 mountaineous which is about 65%:35%, but I think a bodyguard alone doesn't make it for town.
I would make the role cop a role blocker.

[Shadow Dancer]

[...]
Forgot to say this. UB don't take effect for lynches.

Your point? I am pretty sure town won't lynch their PRs.

[Shadow Dancer]

So... I'm assuming you want to lynch the mafia with the same color as you? The issue is that there is no way to discern who is what color.

Only that your role PM would obviously tell you...

Too much positive feedback (/swingy). The idea is fundamentally unworkable.

It is definitely

not

swingy. Yes, it can provide a lot of positive feedback for town, but it only rewards good scumhunting, so that's not a bad thing. It is designed to attenuate the worst problems with mountaineous games (no obscene number of townies required to balance it, lynching scum and doing it early does not cut back on chances to find further scum, causing great frustation for town, scum cannot solely use their night kill to eliminate good players)

Too much power is conentrated in two roles. Also, I think balance wise its scumfavoured.

Are you aware that these two theses blatantly contradict each other? And speaking about power concentrated in few roles think about the same setup, only with a cop instead. One could always reduce night watch power to one shared watch.

[Shadow Dancer]

@Junpei: What if you focussed more on the whole even-oddness issue, Adding an odd-even killing mafia team, odd/even night PRs and an invstigative role that can detect odd/eveness of a player...
What about making the jesters a team/lover pair? There is a fundamental problem with having too many independent game ending wincons in a game which is that no matter what alignment a player gets his chances of winning are vastly diminished, doesn't really help one's motivation to feel screwed from the get-go.

@Quilford: How exactly would the hide work? To make this an open setup you'd have to specify which roles are in the game to be distributed to the players.

[Shadow Dancer]

Black, Grey, White Mafia

33% chance of either setting:

2 Knife Mafia*
2 Gun Wielders*
1 Gunsmith
6/4 Vanilla Town (up to the mod)

1 Mafia Goons
1 Knife Mafia
1 Gun Wielder
1 Gunsmith
7/5 Vanilla Town (up to the mod)

2 Mafia Goons
1 Gunsmith
8/6 Vanilla Town (up to the mod)

Knife Mafia are like normal mafia, except they come up as not having a gun.
Gun Wielders are like VT, except they come up as not having a gun.

So it's essentially n (n={0,1,2}) goons, 2-n godfathers, 2-n millers, 1 cop and the rest townies for 9 or 11 players. Do the millers know they are millers?