[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Ythan]

This is likely to be quite unbalanced but the idea seems interesting.

1 Goon

2 Townies

Day Start

Smallest possible simple game. Town has to lynch goon or it goes to night and he wins. If one townie votes the other, goon can hammer. Knowing this, if a vote occurs and a hammer is not dropped, it must not be town on town; it must be town on goon or vice versa, confirming the third party as innocent all around and the goon as such to the townie involved in the vote. I think that's as much as can be determined objectively.

[Ythan]

There is that.

[Ythan]

If town votes town, goon hammers. If town votes goon or vice versa there will be no immediate hammer because the third player doesn't know which of them is mafia. But once there is no hammer it becomes clear that one of them is. They each know but the necessary third player does not.

[Ythan]

Do they pick who makes the kill?

[Ythan]

An entire game based on WIFOM and second-guessing. Awesome.

[Ythan]

Does the mafia have a factional kill?

[Ythan]

Interesting then.

[Ythan]

I had a mafia dream last night as well and thought about looking that thread up.

[Ythan]

In order to minimize swing, semi-open setups usually don't totally randomize the setup but instead allow for a number of possible arrangements that should maintain balance.

[Ythan]

Are the games selected for the open queue determined in this thread?

[Ythan]

I'm fourth on the list excluding absentees at the top. Get me something awesome please thanks. <3

[Ythan]

I don't understand balance at all, sorry.

[Ythan]

Now that was an intriguing idea. Many combinations of roles can make for a fun enough game but that's got a neat theme behind it.

[Ythan]

Fun idea. Joats in general are fun to play.

[Ythan]

A thought. Aren't games like that conceptually similar to that new perpetual lylo idea? The mafia gets to kill town if there's a dead scum, but otherwise cannot and must rely on lynches.

[Ythan]

Seen it but not with lyncher flavor.

[Ythan]

That's why it's called Shotty's Newbie.

[Ythan]

Do they explicitly end/not end the game in that setup?

[Ythan]

I understand jester hate when it ends the game but if it doesn't, especially as games get larger, it doesn't make so much sense.

[Ythan]

I would try to think of an alternative to PMing votes, such as only allowing them to post votes.

[Ythan]

Plus it lets you fake being kidnapped. If the kidnapped player can prove it by having his vote show up then that won't work.

[Ythan]

What I mean to say is, if you allow them to post in order to vote (if you let them vote at all) then I could only post to vote (or not post at all if they can't vote) to give the impression that I was kidnapped.

[Ythan]

To reach their win condition.

[Ythan]

Surviving lover is pro-town. The win condition to survive to endgame is pro-town when you have to keep a townie alive to do it. Assuming that endgaming townies counts as killing them the survivor can only win with the town.

[Ythan]

The color is because they're third party. They're pro-town, as I just explained, because they win with town. They just have to survive as well.

[Ythan]

I see an informed minority and an uninformed majority. Minority of more than one isn't in the definition. And if you don't consider it Mafia it's a lot closer than some other open setups.

[Ythan]

Don't you hate how Mafia games get moved to another forum when there is only one scum left. Oh wait.

[Ythan]

Well yeah it's unbalanced. The game can end d1.

[Ythan]

Exactly nothing, you said it's not Mafia.

[Ythan]

I think it would suck for the game to end d1.

[Ythan]

Actually, shotty's right for once. mith has said that one-scum games don't work as mafia.

No offense to mith but whether or not it

works

, in his view, I disagree that it changes the game any more than the smaller scale.

[Ythan]

Mafia is still up against having to fake it.

[Ythan]

Mafia is still up against having to fake it.

Yes, but the only thing you're searching for is survival tells. And I know lots of players that don't like dying anyways.

A survivor can still genuinely hunt scum. Scum can't if there aren't multiple factions.

[Ythan]

Remember that a visible restriction, like voteless, really makes a role stand out very quickly in an open game.

[Ythan]

I think Shotty is actually completely serious though.

[Ythan]

I don't want anyone playing doctor on me with a syringe he fished out of the pond.

[Ythan]

Except newbie games vary.

[Ythan]

Except the number of protections is less than half the number of players.

[Ythan]

Anyone can

post

.

[Ythan]

Not the worst setup you've designed.

[Ythan]

what

[Ythan]

This is similar enough in nature to C9++ that it's inadequacy next to that setup makes me doubt anyone would want to play it. Why should I /in for this over C9++?

[Ythan]

I said inadequacies.

[Ythan]

What's the point of doing it by PM?

[Ythan]

Ok cool. It doesn't matter substantially if the town knows but that might be interesting.

[Ythan]

Shotty's Vengeful Night

[Ythan]

Gandalf, for the second time, this is a new game that Shotty is just now brainstorming.

[Ythan]

Doesn't look like it.

[Ythan]

Good design kills mc breaks.

[Ythan]

No I mean, don't rely on janitors.

[Ythan]

That's a description of the role. Point?

[Ythan]

Now?

[Ythan]

If the doctor is blocked I would assume his action does not affect the target.

[Ythan]

What's the point in specifying one of them as the framer and the other as the back-up if there are no mechanics that depend on which one of them is framing? Just say they share a kill and a frame.

[Ythan]

Confirmed?

[Ythan]

Shrinking c9++, will take a look at this.

[Ythan]

What if the mod simply generated one less letter to go along with the smaller playerlist. Maybe one less letter for every two players removed. That probably needs to be tweaked but it's a rough guess.

[Ythan]

In fact, if something like that can be worked out then the setup can be rewritten to generate y letters based on x players.

[Ythan]

That doesn't really make sense. I assume you mean limit the number of players or letters to some range.

[Ythan]

It's a wasted lynch.

[Ythan]

In an open setup everyone would be forced to place a vote on the player below them on the playerlist.

[Ythan]

That's not how trackers and roleblockers work. You want to call one of them something different.

[Ythan]

I believe the tracker should only receive a result if the action is carried out.

[Ythan]

People just aren't great at designing balanced games.

[Ythan]

Quantified competence remains elusive.

[Ythan]

I see little reason to ever disallow scum from self-killing.