[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[yabbaguy]

@Nik-904: can the Doc save the Stalker from an indirect kill? (ie: their target died?)

@Oct-905: You're going to get a Follow the Cop situation with a cop and a doc in the same setup. Or does "Saulus" mean macho cop, much like a Bird setup?

[yabbaguy]

Proposal: Dethy 2.0

3 Vanilla Townies
2 Millers (to Skewed Cop)
1 Sane Cop
1 Skewed Cop

2 Scum

Daystart

Naivete: Millers are merely told they are town, both cops are merely told they are a cop, Millers are shown as Vanilla Town upon death. Cops' sanities are never revealed in game. "Player X, Cop, has died"

Sane Cop receives GUILTY only on Scum, and can see the Miller's innocence, Skewed Cop only receives GUILTY on Millers, and INNOCENT on Scum.

Scum have a standard NK.

---

What do you all think?

[yabbaguy]

One thing I'm debating... whether the cops should headstart or not.

[yabbaguy]

What interactions did you have in mind for your game, Nik? What I find interesting is that if the Tracker finds that someone's been targetted, and they die, the probability of them being scum is extremely high.

Now remember, at best, the Skewed Cop can confirm town, and at worst, cause havoc. What this mainly relies on is that the cops may not be able to claim until much, much later.

Hey, why should I stop at Millers getting revealed?

Basically, the thing that drives this setup is that claims can't always be trusted. It's not just your standard "claim doc, claim cop, badaboom" spiel you get in most other Open games. Here, you really have to consider if the results are viable, or if the claim is even accurate as opposed to camouflaging scum. If scum claims cop and gets a townie lynched "Oh, sorry, I'm apparently skewed." This becomes incredibly easy if I choose to keep Millers hidden as well, while the Cops can still find out their sanity if one of their guilty subjects dies.

[yabbaguy]

Is that a nominate, Nik?

[yabbaguy]

(never mind... I guess that nominate/second system got scrapped somewhere back there)

[yabbaguy]

Fewer vanillae, more fun.

(random latin suffix, I know)

[yabbaguy]

I also think having practically every person in the game have mason powers makes this game ab-Normal.

That sounds like a good Mini Theme idea though.

[yabbaguy]

Dethy 2.0? :)

[yabbaguy]

Feels a lot like a Theme game, ortolan. That's just me.

[yabbaguy]

ABR, we were playing an unlisted variant of T + S, as a reminder.

[yabbaguy]

This I would love to play at some point. If someone finds the original thread where this was originally discussed- that'd be awesome.

EDIT: Found it.

[yabbaguy]

Fire and Ice exists already- but with a Doctor instead of specific-bulletproofs.

[yabbaguy]

I wonder what it would be like if there was a Weak Watcher in that setup (who only sees kill actions). They'll then they would have to deal with the confounding variable of why they didn't die if they're "visited" and stay put.

[yabbaguy]

I like the "No I in Team" Hunter game, personally.

[yabbaguy]

Lie Detector as in

Lie Detector

You may choose one post or part of a post each Night, and I will, if possible, tell you whether the selection is wholly true or partially false.

this?

And Vision Injector I'm drawing a blank on what its PM would be.

[yabbaguy]

SCREAMING, HANDS WAVING IN AIR, OUT OF MY SEAT "OOH OOH OOH" SECOND

C9++

Why has this not happened yet? Half the entertainment is just spinning the random setups!

(Note, since it's my Marathon, yabbaguy-modified ruleset being quoted: The original rule was that it was fixed 3 millers on a single C, and I also put my own objective interpretation on Mafia GF as appearing townie to either sanity (and miller, too). In retrospect, I'm not sure if the original intent was to have sanity skewing and GF skewing simultaneously.

Also, Mafia flips "Mafia" and nothing else. That was an outright error, and I think doing it as Marathon made me forget in the high-speed environment.)

Also, in response to everyone's favorite question:

Innocent Child

At any time, you may say

I am an Innocent Child

in game thread. I will mod-confirm you as that role.

You win with Town.

[yabbaguy]

Partially, yes. C9++ was here and it landed in the Queue and I think two-fold C9 among others came out of here as well.

[yabbaguy]

A trifle thin. Some of those abilities are just JOAT detectors (Track/Watch), others still benefit Town moreso (NK Immunity, Alignment Investigate)

I like semi-open setups with various outputs though, so I like where this is going. That's why I love C9++. Speaking of Nobody Special's game, there's a bit of a snag with who the playerlist is, so we're a bit delayed.

[yabbaguy]

Mafia have a >=25% chance of depriving an already shaky Town powerrole its ability on the first Night?

Aside from the possibliity of Town hitting Mafia on D1, this looks too Mafia-skewed. Also, if I was an R-Vig, what would I do? Come out and say "I'm a vig, whoever the other one is, shut up and kill tonight"? That limits Town a mere 1-shot vig for power. Scum being able to fake a vig claim rather easily also doesn't sit well. If I inhibit the claim, as does the other, it degenerates to a bizarre guessing game which I couldn't fathom seeing how to solve it.

It looks like a setup just begging to essentially become a 3-mislynches-minimum Mountainous. Trifle too much of a Mafia-tilt is my thought.

[yabbaguy]

Does a fruit recipient get:

You received [2] fruits last Night.

or

You received a fruit from [yabbaguy] and [Hoopla] last Night.

?

[yabbaguy]

I want to start a massive C9++ discussion thread once NS' and Ythan's games conclude. I think there's certainly holes in the ruleset that can be plugged in addition to remarking on its balance, since it attempts to mathematically equate powerroles.

[yabbaguy]

I wrote it, yeah. I flagged places where the mod's interpretation of a rule can be subjective, for one.

I believe at least one person who called it Town-skewed, but iunno. I'm not entirely sure where I was going with that remark in retrospect, but I guess I was interested if anyone had any balance concerns or anything of the sort.

[yabbaguy]

That's one fewer Inadv. Mountainous setups anyone can use come Marathon Day.

[yabbaguy]

Voting is supposed to mean "you want to end the Day". I always seesaw on whether or not I agree on the concept of it somehow being an "informative tool" to the Town and how feasible it actually is. It's actually a game mechanic that has an effect on the outcome.

People swinging their vote to a novel scum candidate with 2 days left in the Day always irks me, and that's a case in point where people vote literally just to show suspicion and NOTHING more. Unless you think you can start an impromptu propaganda campaign within that time frame, you're best off conforming to one of the other wagons. The other one is "Okay, now that I'm not hammering, I'll bring him back to L-1".

[yabbaguy]

Can we just throw White Flag Mafia up here officially? The first game's run didn't do the potential for scum connection highlighting any justice, but I'd love to see it have another run... or ten.

3 Mafia

9 Town

Mafia loses if their faction is reduced to one. EV is ~60% scum win percentage, but that's statistical. It's a safe bet that the Town advantage after one scum is lynched is bound to level that number off.

[yabbaguy]

The alignment-changing with Yakuza and pointless WIFOM with the Switcher should go. And the Lie Detector is a pointless investigative role.

Also, just by having more PRs than scum, massclaiming skews the game very, very much in Town's favor.

[yabbaguy]

More White Flag seconding please.

[yabbaguy]

I thought nobody actually nominated W. Flag here for the Open Queue. Have I lost my mind?

[yabbaguy]

SK in a 9P = potential for Town to lose the majority in one cycle. Would not play.

[yabbaguy]

That's an intriguing setup, but in Bird 7P (goon/goon cop/doc/3 town) and C9 (goon/goon cop?/doc?/3-5 town), Maf have less power, and rightfully so. One alternative - 1 maf PR at most, and have it be roleblocker/r-cop/investigate-immune godfather/goon in order to retain the name. It's not really four 1/2 chances to generate the setup, but it does provide 2^4 possible setups - and I can appreciate the jab at 2of4.

Alternative - what if you said that the ability to use the Mafia's factional kill ability and ability to use their own power is mutually exclusive (e.g. roleblocker blocks as normal, but rolecop sacrifices his chance at being cop to make the factional kill)? On a maf lynch should it occur, Town suddenly takes the power into their hands as Mafia aren't able to both use a power AND kill. Swingier, but fairer game.

[yabbaguy]

Open Setups have to be "Normal" according to these rules.

The de facto reality isn't this. Nor should it be.