Post
Post #2 (isolation #1) » Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:38 pm
Postby RH9 »
Yes,
Divulgence
is optimal. However, it is a double-edged sword. A good scumhunting Town block can win in 4 days. However, scum doesn't want this. However, if
Divulgence
is used on a Town member, scum might NK them, or least that player will become a pseudo-IC.
Scum needs to try to break up the Town through super sneaky ways. I edited the original post so that the election mechanic is also used for the Mafia factional ability. This means that they can now purposefully give themselves extra PRs. Not that this will defeat a good scumhunting Town block still. This should fix the balance a bit.
Post
Post #4 (isolation #2) » Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:57 pm
Postby RH9 »
Added an extra option,
Conclave
, as well as reverting the Mafia factional ability to the usual NK. I also changed the number of players 'elected' to two. This means that there is more diversity now.
Will this make it more or less scumsided, though?
Because
Divulgence
is still the best option. Though now they need to perform an action on two people at once. Mod-confirm both. Eliminate both.
Do you think that plurality and unvoting rules would impact the setup, though?
Post
Post #6 (isolation #3) » Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:00 pm
Postby RH9 »
In post 5, Cook wrote:this somewhat reminds me of an open theme i made, Pick Your Policy
i like the backbone of this
It was very partially inspired by Pick Your Policy which I remember glimpsing in the Open Setup Discussion subforum and thought was cool.
(I thought the idea of the motions was cool but that it would be cooler if everybody could decide what to do instead of a smaller group of people like the Council.)
Post
Post #8 (isolation #4) » Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:53 am
Postby RH9 »
In post 7, Jingle wrote:Is the random role distribution independent? By which I mean, is it possible for the same role to come up multiple times in one granting of abilities and is it possible for a player to get the same ability multiple times?
The random role distribution is decided when the
Erudition
option is selected through majority. It is possible. Thus, it is independent to the alignment assignment because it is only distributed when needed. This means if
To make it more clear, say we choose erudition is the random distribution
Player A
Original Roll String: 1d13 (STATIC)
1 13-Sided Dice: (4) = 4
Player B
Original Roll String: 1d13 (STATIC)
1 13-Sided Dice: (13) = 13
or does, say, Player A rolling UB prevent B from rolling UB?
Secondly, if we choose Erudition D1 and I get UB, can I get UB again D2 if we choose erudition again?
It's not really a big point, since 10/13 roles are functionally useless and 1 is mostly useless, so the odds of getting useful power out of erudition is crazy low. Similarly, there exist 0 worlds in which supplement or conclave are the right choice because you're no elimming in return for a 0 utility return.
It doesn't stop them both being UB. If you get UB twice, then you'll probably end up staying as UB but if you get UB than Visitor, you become
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Post #14 (isolation #7) » Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:13 pm
Postby RH9 »
In post 13, Jingle wrote:I would definitely make it so that they can't pick both Divulge and Departure (That's just straight follow the cop, but without the doc being killable), but one in those two and one in the other three does make it more interesting as a choice.
Distro and Modifier tables would have to be balanced before each running, but that seems to be a goal of the setup anyway. It's probably townsided assuming a decent amount of power in the potential pool and inherently high swing.
I would consider adding factional scum abilities based on the balance of the roles in the distribution.
I'd also consider making a divulged player ineligible for any of the other three options.
It seems likely to turn into a very grindy game, though, and I don't think you'd ever want to run it as a 17p in a forum setting. Potentially as a F2F it would work better, there's just a very slow rate of deaths which tends to kill larges through replacement attrition.
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Post #18 (isolation #9) » Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:23 pm
Postby RH9 »
In post 17, Jingle wrote:First of all, when editing the setup it's a good idea to leave the old setup intact and make a new post so anyone who wanders in has a frame of reference for the early discussion.
Second of all, without having a set distribution list the mechanic can't be fully analyzed for balance. At best you can ask if the mechanic is scumsiding or townsiding.
Third, I don't think the current iteration is feasible at all. You don't have follow the cop as the issue anymore, but instead scum can't kill so long as town eliminates everyday. This setup is functionally Nightless DoubleDay (you only get flips after two elims), which is theoretically balanced at 3T:1M but is in practice townsided at those numbers, with numbers that are further townsiding.
I don't think taking away the scum nightkill if town eliminates leads to any sort of playable game.
I think what you want in a setup (although I could be wrong, certainly) is something closer to this:
This way, your power assignment function will actually see use. I don't think splitting active powers and modifiers is a good idea because there will always be a clear option between the two. Either the powers will be worth granting or they won't. If they're not, then aiming scummy and hoping to hit something like Complex to force scum to be unable to NK vanilla players is probably better. Similarly, Conclave could easily just be a neighborizer power, although leaving it as a separate option isn't really a bad thing if you prefer that.
Alternatively, you could remove the Divulgence option and make the choice (Grant Power or Elim) in which case the issues you need to resolve are scum killing whoever gets the power and making the powers strong enough to outweigh the loss of an elimination.
For now, I'd recommend focusing on what you want the play to actually look like over the balance, because balance is something you fine tune after you have a core setup that's going to work the way you want it to.
In post 0, RH9 wrote:Allocation: The players are each given a random Role and Modifier from the distribution table.
Departure: The players exit the game and are flipped.
Divulgence: The Alignments, Roles, and Modifiers of each of the players are mod-confirmed.
So two out of these three are chosen every day? If Departure is chosen does it matter what other option is also chosen?
Yes, for the original setup, two players and two of those options were selected through majority. It didn't matter if Departure was selected or not. However, this proved to be not such a good idea.
Based on my interpretation of Jingle's suggestion in 17, you chose between confirming the alignment of a player or eliminating that player. In addition to that, another player was allocated a power (which is either a Role, a Modifier, or a combination of both) from a list.