Newbie 969 - Game Over!

[kapia]

Sundy: The players killed during the night are chosen by the scum. So by listening to them we listen what the scum wants us to listen. Players killed during the day are not chosen by scum alone, so their opinions are more thruthful I think.

[VP Baltar]

Vote Count 4.2

Not Voting: Fred Garvin, kapia, Sundy

With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch. Deadline is August 18 at approximately 8 a.m. (GMT-4).

[Sundy]

Looking forward to a post from Fred today or tomorrow...

[Fred Garvin]

Sorry for the delay. Got in late last night and didn't get a chance to get online. I should have time to make a more substantial post sometime today.

[Fred Garvin]

Haven't had as much time today as I thought. Post-vacation activities (unpacking, laundry, yard work, etc...).

I did a quick ISO on Sundy for due diligence. For the most part I have had a town read on sundy for the majority of the game. The main things I would say that have me worried about overlooking Sundy are 1.) the fact he managed to avoid voting on the first two lynches and 2) the fact that despite what I think was a majority consensus that he was town (if I recall correctly)...he is still alive. Granted...hohum being basically confirmed as town made him more of a town target than Sundy...but not sure why Sundy would have survived a NK over Omnino...who I thought had garnered some suspicions from a few players.

That said...I still think my feel towards kapia is stronger than my apprehension over the possibilty of getting taken by Sundy.

I have not had a chance to ISO kapia yet so these comments are going off of recollection. I know I have had suspicions towards kapia for much of the game, starting with her odd attack on ZazieR. To be honest...after the ZazieR vote...I think kapia caught some heat and then went on vacation. A vacation is not a reason to suspect anyone (especially considering I just came off a two week one myself)...but it does prevent a lot of possible input from a player to make assessments on. I do know kapia made more than a few points against me which I responded to. I am not aware of those responses being countered against but kapia still maintains suspicions of me...for gut? I know some points kapia made towards me were based on comments others have made (specifically ICE). Yet the points made by ICE (specifically ICE's vote post on me) were addressed by me and resulted in an unvote by ICE. So kapia's points against me...to include those made by others...would seem to have all been addressed satifisfactorily as far as I can tell yet I continue to be tagetted.

With so little to work with from kapia I have to look at interactions with others. I have already mentioned the last two NK's and how the players killed had voiced suspicions towards kapia. I went back and looked to see if the first NK victim had suspicions towards kapia and not surprisingly, Magna's second to last post voiced several points against kapia. The was no vote of course because Magna had voted correctly for Groupthink. However...it would have been a reasonable assumption to think if Magna had survived to day two...that kapia would have been high on his list of suspects. Other than ICE...I do not believe any of the people NK'd had expressed serious suspicions towards me. If I was the last mafia...I do not think the NKs would have been very favorable to me. I realize this is all WIFOM...but I still think it bears consideration.

If I'm missing any questions of points that need addressed by either of you left me know (especially Sundy). I think I will be prepared to vote within a day or two...pending any questions and a closer look at kapia.

[kapia]

Fred: The fact that you have explained the things I pointed out does not make those things disappear. You have still done all those scummy things, and from my point of view you are way more scummy than Sundy. If you think that's not reason enough to keep targeting you, then that's your opinion. Yes, you are good at explaining, but scum all the same.

I think I have said at least most of what needs to be said and I'm ready to vote. Just waiting for Sundy to tell us which way he turns. It looks like I'm going to vote Fred and Fred is going to vote me, so Sundy will be the one deciding who dies. Hopefully Sundy decides the right one, and hopefully Sundy is not the last scum!

[VP Baltar]

Vote Count 4.3

Not Voting: Fred Garvin, kapia, Sundy

With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch. Deadline is August 18 at approximately 8 a.m. (GMT-4).

[Fred Garvin]

Note: anything below in bold is bolded by me.
************************************
ISO 5 is the first kapia post to get my attention with the vote for annoyance...which I took to be serious...followed by this nonchalant reply from kapia inviting ZazieR to vote for her. If kapia were town I do not think inviting a mislynch could be construed as a pro-town move.

Question: Why shouldn't I vote you?

Maybe you should. I think that voting somebody because they annoy me is a better reason than the missing avatar, so I changed my vote.<deleted>

Then kapia puts a vote on jimfinn for essentially a lack of posting and being v/LA (ironic considering kapia’s multiple v/LAs), proclaims GT her main suspect...but does not put a vote down and removes her vote from jimfinn. This seems suspicious as it looks like kapia setting the stage for a vote on GT if necessary later in the game...as there was no vote on GT at that time. Additionally...she states she will only vote people she thinks are scummy and when she finally does vote GT, it’s to pressure him. No reason given other than a piggyback off ICE’s vote.

A lot of kapia’s suspicions appear more gut related than based on hard facts. Her vote on me started with the following, “Scum. Nothing he alone has done is making him scum,” which is hard logic to defend against. Kapia ISO 27 gives the basis for your case against me to which I am able to respond to and apparently despite answering all of her points ‘ok’, she still thinks I am scum.

Now I will directly respond to one of your more recent posts:

Why did you use the word "they" when referring to GroupThink? I don't know what to make of this, I just noticed it. And I don't know if it is normal to say "they" when meaning one person, but I think not.

This seems like grasping at straws to concoct points of contention. Arguing semantics.

Later on the first day I get the feeling that Sundy actually had some good reasoning on why to suspect Ice, but Fred was just hopping onboard and voting Ice to protect GroupThink.

I’m not sure how to respond to this. I expressed suspicions towards ICE for much of the game and when I voted ICE D1, I laid out my reasons for doing so. Not sure if they mirror Sundy's ICE suspicions or not but there was no ‘hopping onboard.’

Fred's post 166 is also very defensive and I see no reason for a townie to write that post.

How is it defensive? It is primarily a response to Omnino comments directed at me followed by a vote on ZazieR. Not sure what you find defensive about responding to comments directed at you from others.

UNVOTE: ICE

generally I don't like posting from my phone but L-1 makes me nervous...

This post is one of the best reasons for me to think Sundy is town.
And later Sundy would have been ready to hammer GroupThink if hohum would not have done it before.

This is WIFOM coupled with conjecture based on your opinion. This is no defense of Sundy (no offense Sundy)...and is about as sound reasoning for considering someone town as the reasoning you are applying to assign suspicions....i.e. weak.

Post 251 by Ice on the beginning of day 2 is a really good one, and because Ice is already dead, I think we should listen to him.

What did you find good about this post? If you think we should listen to him...what about the fact ICE removed his D2 vote on me after I addressed his concerns? If that is what you think we should listen to then I agree.

Fred has tried to explain many of these things I'm referring to already, but the explaining doesn't take away the fact that all this has happened and it makes Fred scummy.

If explaining something clarifies it satisfactorily...then how does the fact something happened continue to be a point of suspicion? What points of your have I not explained satisfactorily and which ones do you still consider to be scummy? Just because you say something is scummy doesn’t make it so...especially if the accusation does not carry any weight. (ex...the use of the word ‘they’)

Ok, I'm quite sure now that Fred is scum. Everything in this thread leads to Fred being scum and Sundy being town. Now all I have left is to prove to Sundy that Fred is scum and I am town.

Why?! You keep calling me scum without any sound reasoning. What in this thread leads to me being scum? You are making minimal effort to place suspicion which is very scummy.

Ok, I'll try to make clear the reasons why I think Fred is scum.

You sure have been busy coming to what looks to me as Aqua's defense.

This and suspecting me during the first day for "wanting to know who is town", when it was GroupThink who first asked about town-people. Two mistakes, that would not have been made, had he read the thread with care. Because town has to read carefully for finding scum, but scum only have to get somebody else killed, I think making such mistakes is scummy.

What were my mistakes again? I viewed you as coming to Aqua's defense and backed off that opinion after thinking it over. No mistake of my opinion when I made the post. As forfishing for most likley to be town...you address that below and I will respond there. My main suspicions towards you on D1 were based on your early attack on ZazieR and you lack of posting. Which I view as trying to get an early wagon started and lying low.

And there was another mistake. It wasn't me who you said that thing to but Sundy. And I wasn't lying low during the first day, my V/LA started only a couple of days before the end of day 1.

The fact you quoted me without any mention of who I was addressing was the reason for me thinking I had referred to you instead of Sundy. Confusion caused by your watered down quote should not be held against me (another weak/faulty accusation). Also, you were v/LA twice on D1..hence the lying low comment. The less content you provide the harder it is to get a read on you.

Your reply to the rest of my points was ok, but it doesn't mean you aren't scum. You could well have said all those things being scum. And I don't see the need to go into these more deeply, because I'm sure that Sundy will find you scummy too if he reads all your posts through.

How can I debate this logic? I account for my actions/comments but so what...I’m still scum in your opinion. Gut gut gut. Easy easy easy. From what I have seen....you have not even done

And by the way, so far the main point in accusing me has been my absence. How does my vacation make me scummy?

This is not true...I have given you some flack over the amount you have posted...but other than D1 I haven’t really focused on you. So to say my main point is your absence is not true. The main reason you are my suspect today is because you are still here...with Sundy. So moreso through process of elimination than anything, I am inclined to suspect you. I have mentioned your absences as making if difficult to find fault with you but taken on it’s own...being on vacation is not scummy. And when you have been around...you have posted a reasonable amount of times, albeit with content I do not agree with.

And as scum, it was easy for Fred to nightkill such players that they would point to me. I would rather believe in the words of players killed during the day than those killed at night.

WIFOM. All three NK’s were highly suspicious of you. So as scum...you are saying I planned all along to NK based on the suspicions it would place on you....when I would have no way of knowing you would even survive any of the post D1 days? I only wish I was that thoughtful and organized of a player. If I was scum...why would I have brought someone with me into LYLO who was blatently focused on me the previous day? I don’t recall what Sundy or hohum’s opinions of me were yesterday (or for much of the game)...but I think a scumFred would have benefitted more from either bringing the anti-kapia hohum into LYLO or bringing Sundy and hohum ass at least there would not have been a guaranteed vote coming my way.

tl:dr- kapia is most likely the last scum. Has made numerous weak accusations and continues to rely on gut. And aside from ICE’s suspicions towards me...I think the majority of the departed players’ suspicions have been more focused on kapia than me (or Sundy). Additionally...despite the NKs being WIFOM...I think they also speak volumes about who the last scum is. That said...I’m finding it hard to vote. Would prefer to hear from sundy again before I do...as well as any responses kapia may have.

[Sundy]

thanks, FG. Did you answer the questions I posed to you yet?

I will probably make one last post, wait a little while for any responses, and then vote. so much pressure

[Fred Garvin]

thanks, FG. Did you answer the questions I posed to you yet?

I will probably make one last post, wait a little while for any responses, and then vote. so much pressure

If the ones below are what you are referring to....no, I hadn't. I got preoccupied with kapia. Here are my responses...if there are questions I left out point them out please.

If I recall correctly I garnered suspicions from GT.

Fred, can you please point to these now?

GT ISO 3...he singles me out for needing to get a read on me. (weak suspicion inference but that’s how took it)
GT ISO 5....I’m ranked third on his scum list...while kapia is rated most townie behind of course GT. Funny enough I’m passed by you on the list in GT ISO 6.

As I look over GT’s ISO again I find it interesting that he makes very little mention of suspicions towards kapia and anoints kapia most town. While he (GT) does cast a fair bit of suspicions Sundy’s way to include a vote. I would place myself somewhere in the middle of GT suspicions. Not sure how to take his view on Sundy and kapia. Blatant distancing with respect to kapia who at the time was one of the leading bandwagons or blatant bussing with respect to Sundy whom GT actually voted for and stayed on until his lynch.

Somewhat suspicious towards Sundy IMO but I think distancing in an effort to save a partner is more likely than bussing a partner when they have one of the leading bandwagons att.

I could have posted after the hammer but did not think it would matter if ICE flipped scum or I did not survive to today.

Did you really think ICE would flip scum based on his comments after the lynch?

From what I have seen...scum do not always fess up right after they have been lynched, so until the mod revealed ICE’s flip I was confident we had got the last scum. Also...on the chance kapia or I were the NK there would have been no point to posting my kapia response post-ICE flip (twilight?).

As of now the only person I'm inclined to not suspect is hohum based on the omnino read Sundy provided.

Please tell me why you said this after hohum had already been NKd?!

As stated at the beginning of the post, I had started working on the post prior to hohum hammering ICE. The bulk of the post was in response to kapia’s case on me and once we were all still alive the next day...I felt my response (and answers to kapia’s case on me) warranted posting. I did not edit it to reflect the NK.

[kapia]

At least I can't blame Fred for not trying!

ISO 5 is the first kapia post to get my attention with the vote for annoyance...which I took to be serious...followed by this nonchalant reply from kapia inviting ZazieR to vote for her. If kapia were town I do not think inviting a mislynch could be construed as a pro-town move.

As I have said, I was hangover when I did that and I got annoyed by ZazieR. The vote from me to ZazieR was not serious, I thought at the time that RVS meant voting anybody with any reasons and changing votes when you feel like it. I have learned it isn't so, but didn't know it then.

Then kapia puts a vote on jimfinn for essentially a lack of posting and being v/LA (ironic considering kapia’s multiple v/LAs), proclaims GT her main suspect...but does not put a vote down and removes her vote from jimfinn. This seems suspicious as it looks like kapia setting the stage for a vote on GT if necessary later in the game...as there was no vote on GT at that time. Additionally...she states she will only vote people she thinks are scummy and when she finally does vote GT, it’s to pressure him. No reason given other than a piggyback off ICE’s vote.

I voted GT because I suspected him. I think even pressure votes are made because of suspicion. Or at least I wouldn't want to pressure vote somebody I didn't think suspicious. And I think I voiced my suspicions towards GT in my earlier posts, so the fact that I didn't repeat them in the same post where I voted GT doesn't mean I didn't suspect GT. And I took away my jimfinn vote because I thought we were out of RVS, and thought for a moment before voting GT. Is that a crime?

A lot of kapia’s suspicions appear more gut related than based on hard facts. Her vote on me started with the following, “Scum. Nothing he alone has done is making him scum,” which is hard logic to defend against. Kapia ISO 27 gives the basis for your case against me to which I am able to respond to and apparently despite answering all of her points ‘ok’, she still thinks I am scum.

That's not true. If it looks like my suspicions were gut related, it's propably because it's difficult for me to explain every little detail with this language that I'm not so familiar with. I have had reasons for my suspicions, and I'm sure you will find them if you look. And that "Nothing he alone has done is making him scum" point looks to me exactly the same as why you think I am scum, elimination. Because everyone else was less scummy, you were my main suspect. And I have said this before, you are good at explaining yourself, you speak perfect english and had pretty good answers to most of my points. However the fact that you were able to explain most of them doesn't make Sundy any scummier.

Why did you use the word "they" when referring to GroupThink? I don't know what to make of this, I just noticed it. And I don't know if it is normal to say "they" when meaning one person, but I think not.

This seems like grasping at straws to concoct points of contention. Arguing semantics.

I don't really understand what you are saying here. And the reason why I asked this was that I didn't know that it was somewhat normal to use the word "they" when referring to one person. This wasn't a point against you, I just asked if that was normal language.

Post 251 by Ice on the beginning of day 2 is a really good one, and because Ice is already dead, I think we should listen to him.

What did you find good about this post? If you think we should listen to him...what about the fact ICE removed his D2 vote on me after I addressed his concerns? If that is what you think we should listen to then I agree.

I think there was good reasoning for both my defence and against you. I was tunneling on GT on day 1 also, maybe not as strongly as Ice, but still. I don't see the point to go against your scum partner on day 1, that's why I didn't understand the lynching of Ice, and I don't understand that you suspect me. And the fact that you were able to talk yourself out of that situation for Ice doesn't mean to me that he didn't have good arguments.

Ok, I'm quite sure now that Fred is scum. Everything in this thread leads to Fred being scum and Sundy being town. Now all I have left is to prove to Sundy that Fred is scum and I am town.

Why?! You keep calling me scum without any sound reasoning. What in this thread leads to me being scum? You are making minimal effort to place suspicion which is very scummy.

I don't see any reason in repeating myself. I don't have to explain to you why I think you are scum, it's enough that Sundy can figure it out for himself by reading your posts.

The fact you quoted me without any mention of who I was addressing was the reason for me thinking I had referred to you instead of Sundy. Confusion caused by your watered down quote should not be held against me (another weak/faulty accusation). Also, you were v/LA twice on D1..hence the lying low comment. The less content you provide the harder it is to get a read on you.

If you are not able to remember who said what, is that my fault? And yeah, I had two v/LA's on first day, but the first one was short and I think I made a good comeback, so I don't really think that an actual absence.

And by the way, so far the main point in accusing me has been my absence. How does my vacation make me scummy?

This is not true...I have given you some flack over the amount you have posted...but other than D1 I haven’t really focused on you. So to say my main point is your absence is not true. The main reason you are my suspect today is because you are still here...with Sundy. So moreso through process of elimination than anything, I am inclined to suspect you. I have mentioned your absences as making if difficult to find fault with you but taken on it’s own...being on vacation is not scummy. And when you have been around...you have posted a reasonable amount of times, albeit with content I do not agree with.

So you really don't have any reasons for thinking I'm scum? And you have seriously been blaming me for suspecting you without good reasoning? At least I have had good points against you, your points being 1)you are still here, 2) Sundy is more town and 3) you have been away too much.

And as scum, it was easy for Fred to nightkill such players that they would point to me. I would rather believe in the words of players killed during the day than those killed at night.

WIFOM. All three NK’s were highly suspicious of you. So as scum...you are saying I planned all along to NK based on the suspicions it would place on you....when I would have no way of knowing you would even survive any of the post D1 days? I only wish I was that thoughtful and organized of a player. If I was scum...why would I have brought someone with me into LYLO who was blatently focused on me the previous day? I don’t recall what Sundy or hohum’s opinions of me were yesterday (or for much of the game)...but I think a scumFred would have benefitted more from either bringing the anti-kapia hohum into LYLO or bringing Sundy and hohum ass at least there would not have been a guaranteed vote coming my way.

You clearly have not read what I have written before. Here is what I answered to Sundy to this same question:

I don't know. There is a chance he did that, or then he just killed who he thought most not-likely to get lynched during the day and today noticed that they lead to me. Or maybe it was both combined.

Ok, I really am convinced Fred is scum and Sundy is town, so I see no reason for waiting. If Sundy is scum, he most definitely is not going to say anything to make me change my mind at this point, so
VOTE: Fred Garvin
I hope I'm right. If Sundy is the scum, concratulations of the great play!

[Fred Garvin]

"I don't have to explain to you why I think you are scum" - kapia

Because you can't. I would respond to your points but they are just rehashing faulty logic or weak accusations already used.

@Sundy...if you need any of kapia's comments above addressed to help your decision process please let me know. I'm committed to the fact you are town. I'm not sure which way you are leaning but with kapia's vote there is no reason I can see to hold off on my vote. Since you have either fooled kapia and I and earned the win or are in fact town...you can make the final decision.

Good luck!

VOTE: kapia

[kapia]

Fred: I have explained many times why you are scum, you just don't want to see it. I have had much better reasons for thinking you are scum than you have had for thinking I am scum. And no matter what I say, you are just going to turn it against me, so I think it's better if I say no more. (And now you're going to say I'm scum because I said that.)

[Sundy]

Sorry for taking so long to vote guys, insane work schedule.

Obviously you are both correct that I am not scum, else I'd win this game right now.

I'll post tonight.

[VP Baltar]

Vote Count 4.4

Fred Garvin ~ L-1 (kapia)
kapia ~ L-1 (Fred Garvin)

Not Voting: Sundy

With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch. Deadline is August 18 at approximately 8 a.m. (GMT-4).

[Fred Garvin]

Fred: I have explained many times why you are scum, you just don't want to see it. I have had much better reasons for thinking you are scum than you have had for thinking I am scum. And no matter what I say, you are just going to turn it against me, so I think it's better if I say no more. (And now you're going to say I'm scum because I said that.)

To insinuate I would accuse you of being scum in response to your last post is basically an ad-hom attack on any of the suspicions I have put your way. Have I done that in this game? I don’t believe I have. Your continued drum beating of ~’Fred is scum…because’…without solid reasoning is what scum are relegated to doing when they do not have a good case. You have accused me of being scum many times but your rationale has been lacking. I believe I have provided rebuttals to all of your points that showed them to not hold water…and you have agreed and yet continued to call me scum. Barring some sort of confirmation (ie a cop investigation) town does not know who town is. The fact you were not even willing to consider Sundy shows you are scum and knew he was town.

As for not having any reasons to suspect you, I have provided reasons; and the primary reason is not for your absence despite your repeated accusations to that affect. I will admit…my suspicions towards you are not slam dunks…but if they were…you would have already been lynched. The same goes for me. Competent scum are not going to make it easy on town to find them…which is exactly why there should be no way for you to have refrained from any suspicions towards him. I still had a fear that we had both been duped by Sundy until his last post didn't hammer. He had done a few things in the game that gave me pause for thought (which I have already provided). But in the context of the entire game I thought his game was more town…and faced with making a choice based on what I thought in my mind were 70/30 odds that you are scum, my decision was clear. And after Sundy's no vote post I now know I was right. I hope Sundy sees you for what you are and you go down in flames for a town win.

[Sundy]

OK, I finally had time to read over the thread carefully.

Kapia incurred a lot more suspicion during Day 1, from many different players. Zazie, ICE, Magna, Omnino (Omnino is the scariest, because his first post w/content instantly pin-pointed GT and Kapia; if Kapia is scum, then Omnino's definitely MVP this game). But these players, after having a chance to grill her, backed down, and said that she answered the questions well.

Fred never really faced an equivalent kind of pressure throughout the game, so though he didn't garner as many scum-reads, he also was able to coast through much of the game, and this is what I think he did.

One exception to this is when I asked him a bunch of questions in post 132. He never responded to these, but said it was a good post, and went on to talk about the parts regarding GT: like he'd be willing to bus once he himself came under pressure. When ICE made his post against FG, btw, he only unvoted because he wanted to clear his head, not because he found FG so compelling in his answers.

Furthermore, the relationship between GT & FG definitely raises eyebrows.

Here is a post when he converses about how Kapia might be bad with GT:

Yes. That and no one else has done anything to make me want to relocate it. While I think her play has improved since her annoyance vote, two things a quick look over her posts stand out to me is that she suspects you for the way you answered a simple question, and she wants to know who you think is town.

This is an especially strange response because nearly everyone else described GT's questioning of ICE re: LYLO as suspicious, and GT was the one asking for town-reads, not kapia.

When I asked FG to provide examples of GT being suspicious of FG as he claimed on Day 4, his replies were only that GT said he needed a read on FG, and also GT placed FG in the middle of the pack for scummiest players.

But, unlike the beginning of the game, Fred has been under a lot of pressure in these past few days, and I am not at all convinced by his arguments. Kapia's rests almost entirely on his interactions with GT, which is fairly plausible to me (as mentioned above).

But FG's seem more out there:

Looking back over the ISO's of omnino and hohum...they both expressed suspicions towards kapia before they were night killed, especially hohum. I think that is very significant.

Not true. His best bet was to go for Magna in making this argument, but hohum only voted kapia because he thought she was useless. Omnino was suspicious of everyone except for hohum.

FG:So moreso through process of elimination than anything, I am inclined to suspect you.

I believe an appropriate translation for this would be, "You're the next obstacle to victory."

WIFOM. All three NK’s were highly suspicious of you. So as scum...you are saying I planned all along to NK based on the suspicions it would place on you....when I would have no way of knowing you would even survive any of the post D1 days? I only wish I was that thoughtful and organized of a player. If I was scum...why would I have brought someone with me into LYLO who was blatently focused on me the previous day? I don’t recall what Sundy or hohum’s opinions of me were yesterday (or for much of the game)...but I think a scumFred would have benefitted more from either bringing the anti-kapia hohum into LYLO or bringing Sundy and hohum ass at least there would not have been a guaranteed vote coming my way.

Completely disagree with this post. No way FG would have benefited from bringing hohum into LYLO... he was 100% confirmed town. And no, FG didn't plan to make Kapia look suspicious with the night-kills (after all, I tried to save both of these people as the doctor, it wasn't very hard to tell they'd be killed), he's just stretching the facts to make it sound like hohum and omnino were particularly suspicious of kapia in their final moments.

Good luck!

Something is adversarial about this...

VOTE: Fred Garvin

Good game, everyone. Hopefully I'm right.

[kapia]

Great! I think we just won the game! Because you are right in that I'm town, and I believe you are town, so Fred was the scum! Good game, it was a pleasure to play my first game with you guys. Thanks!

[VP Baltar]

Final Vote Count Day 4

Fred Garvin ~ LYNCH (kapia, Sundy)
kapia ~ L-1 (Fred Garvin)

---

The vacation was over and it is time to go home. The sun no longer brought joy, but was a perpetual reminder of the death that waited for you. With only three of vacationers left, it was quickly decided that it was finally time to settle this once and for all. Sundy, kapia and Fred Garvin all drew guns underneath the mango tree and trembled in the noon sun. The smell of decay filled the air from the bulbous fruits, some laying on the ground half-consumed by insects. kapia is the first to direct his weapon at Fred and Sundy is soon to follow. Fred mumbles something about "those meddling kids", but it is hardly intelligible as his flesh begins to melt away.

"Got you," kapia smirks and fires off a single shot.

Bang, you're dead.

Fred Garvin, Mafia Roleblocker, has been lynched Day 4.

Town Wins!

[VP Baltar]

Setup was 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Doctor and 5 Vanilla Townies versus 1 Mafia Goon and 1 Mafia Roleblocker

1. omnino - Cop
2. Fred Garvin - Mafia Roleblocker
3. Sundy - Doctor
4. jimfinn - Vanilla
5. kapia - Vanilla
6. GroupThink - Mafia Goon
7. hohum (SE) - Vanilla
8. MagnaofIllusion (SE) - Vanilla
9. ICEninja 1 (IC) - Vanilla

Scum QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/niWS6zvhMMNd
Dead QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/hfcgkf2vUcCg

Night 1 Actions

omnino investigates hohum, result: Not Mafia
Fred Garvin roleblocks Sundy, result: Succesful block
Fred Garvin kills MagnaofIllusion, result: MagnaofIllusion dies.
Sundy protects omnino. Protection fails due to roleblock.


Night 2 actions

omnino investigates ICEninja, result: Not Mafia
Sundy protects omnino, result: Failed protection due to roleblock
Fred Garvin roleblocks Sundy, result: Successful block
Fred Garvin kills omnino, result: omnino dies

Night 3 Actions

Fred Garvin roleblocks Sundy, result: Successful block
Fred Garvin kills hohum, result: hohum dies
Sundy protects hohum, result: failed protection due to roleblock

[VP Baltar]

Overall thoughts on the game:

I think town played very well overall as a unit. I think this is one of the keys to winning when you are a town role, being able to work together with other people and talk through your suspicions. That being said, I think Fred Garvin also played a masterful game and made this game a lot closer than it could have been. He couldn't have played his role any better than he did, so he deserves credit for that. Obviously, the scum were pretty far behind after Day 1. I'm sure GroupThink learned some valuable lessons from this game.

Thanks to ICEninja for ICing. I think you did a fine job balancing playing the game and helping newer players adjust. Keep up the good work and I hope you continue to IC. MagnaofIllusion, I hope you start ICing soon as well. Newbie queue always needs some help!

Sundy played his doctor role pretty well I thought. He did a good job of staying just under the radar enough to keep surviving while also staying relatively townie looking. It's just a shame that Fred blocked you every night or you might have really done some damage for the town. Good job. Omnino, you played cop fine enough, but breadcrumbing so hard was probably your death. Luckily, it still worked out this game and everyone picked up on it right away. I think that was pretty beneficial overall because hohum certainly would have been lynched at some point if it hadn't been for you clearing him.

jimfinn, I think you played ok when you were around, just needed to post more. I hope you keep playing on the site and had fun. Thanks to everyone for playing in my game. If you have any questions or comments about the moderating, feel free to ask. Hope to either play or moderate with everyone soon.

[Sundy]

The first thing I want to do is start playing another game. Mafia is awesome.

Those last few days were stressful-- great job, FG. It took a long time to start suspecting you. How did you know to role-block me for 2 saves in a row?!

@ICE, if you're still reading the thread, sorry for focusing on you so much! I think you were an awesome SE.

[Fred Garvin]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh....good game kapia and Sundy (and all). Thanks for modding VP.

Despite the fact you were right kapia I honestly didn’t think any of the points you made on me were very good. I’m also surprised you completely discounted Sundy (though I wasn’t planning to target him in LYLO). You do have a good gut

If I could do anything different I may have cast more suspicions on Groupthink D1 as his game was very erratic and if I had been town I think he would have been my main target. Also, once I was on my own, perhaps trying to stay off one of the mislynches would have helped me. Though it never really came up as a negative against me.

As harmful perhaps as Groupthink’s game was to a scum win (i.e. drawing so much suspicion and not taking the cop with him)....hohum almost made up for it with his itchy trigger finger No offense hohum...I wish you hadn’t been ~confirmed town.

I blocked Sundy night one simply because he seemed pretty level headed. When my Magna kill went through, I saw no reason to block anyone else the rest of the game even though I wasn’t sure there was a Dr.

I missed the omnino cop tell until Sundy pointed it out....thereby facilitating/forcing hohum’s NK. Being on a two week vacation limited my ability to analyze the game though it wouldn’t have changed anything.

I’m not sure who I would have brought to Lylo if hohum had not been basically confirmed town. Kapia seemed zoned in on me so he was going to vote me for sure, and if I had kept hohum instead of Sundy...that would have been a lot of WIFOM towards me. I think a me-hohum-Sundy LYLO would have gone bad for me as well.

It was fun despite the loss. fockfockfockfockfock

Any questions for me...fire away. As this was my first game as scum any comments about my game would be welcomed.

[kapia]

I'm an absolute ICE fan. I think you did an excellent job at finding the scum, all I had to do was listen to you and follow.
Good game from the rest of you too. I had a lot of fun, but I think I will take a little break from this forum and focus on teaching my buddies at the Finnish forums for now. The game there has actually improved a lot during this game, and it's getting better to play there too. And it is so much easier for me to play in Finnish. I also like the fast games better, I think three weeks for one day is too long. One week would be good for me.

Fred: It wasn't gut. When I read the game again on the last day, it was obvious to me that you were scum and Sundy town. My points may not have been so good by themselves, but because there were so many little points and the way you played was scummy, there just was no way for me to target anyone else. But you did try hard! I almost got annoyed by your long posts when I knew you were scum. Luckily Sundy found you scum also and we got a town win!

Good game everybody and keep up the good work!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Good game everyone!

Thanks to VP for doing a great job hosting. Very well run IMO.

I have to say I was overall very impressed with the majority of the non-SE/IC players.

kapia - Aside from your early V/LA I appreciated your activity level. My only suggestion would be to work on your presentation style. Looking just at the manner in which you and Fred jousted the last day I think he was much more effective in presenting his case. Luckily Sundy came through with the right call.

Sundy - excellent performance. I have no complaints. You stood up nicely when I pressured you early Day 1. You took your time in LYLO and made the right call.

jimfinn - Posting more will do your game wonders.

Fred Garvin - very well played game. I think by far your Day 1 was your worst day. After that I can see why you escaped the noose for so long. The "SE / IC" scum statistics you threw in that day sunk you, IMO, when viewed in combination with your lack of Town interactions with GT. Given you were thrown a loop not having any contact with GT pregame you worked through it nicely. I have two questions for you -

1. Are you an alt? Seriously it was the first thing that came to my mind seeing an account made based on a one-shot Saturday Night Live 70s sketch.
2. If you are not an alt where did you comments in the MafiaQT that you know Ice and I come from?

GT - Your playstyle Day 1 didn't work so well. Also as discussed in the QT you should have claimed Cop instead of hesitating. It would have solidified for your partner the set-up in 99% of the time.

omni - Again, excellently played game. Your Cop crumbs were a bit strong but otherwise I see nothing bad from you.

I think Hohum and I have said all that needs to be said to each other in the Dead QT.

Ice aside from your unfocused Day 1 you did a admirable job. Continue ICing ... it will help new players.

Look forward to seeing most of you around the site ...